Re: [Qgis-user] QGIS 3.18.0 and QGIS 3.14.4 (LTR) packages released and OSGeo4W reboot

[C Hamilton]

I am slow in responding to this, but I work with users that often do not
have direct access to the Internet so it is very important that the
installers provide all the data and not require some additional download
especially if that additional download would require system admin
privileges.

Calvin

On Sat, Feb 27, 2021 at 3:27 PM Jürgen E. Fischer  wrote:

> Hi Jorge,
>
> On Sat, 27. Feb 2021 at 17:00:09 +, Jorge Gustavo Rocha wrote:
> > Maybe Nyall can provide more details, but I think this is supported on
> > QGIS side. As Greg said, this might not be friendly for offline users,
> > but would help us to have smaller packages for Windows users.
>
> But is size an issue?   I mean if it really was people would not be
> insisting
> on a single huge blob installer, if there is a way to update just the newer
> bits through the osgeo4w installer (ignoring that wouldn't work for the
> current
> transition either).
>
> Anyway, IIRC the proj downloads would need to happen transparently as the
> transformation does - possibly coordinated between several threads that
> etc.pp.
> And there was no easy take on that.
>
>
> Jürgen
>
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Re: [Qgis-user] QGIS 3.18.0 and QGIS 3.14.4 (LTR) packages released and OSGeo4W reboot

[Jürgen E . Fischer]

Hi Jorge,

On Sat, 27. Feb 2021 at 17:00:09 +, Jorge Gustavo Rocha wrote:
> Maybe Nyall can provide more details, but I think this is supported on
> QGIS side. As Greg said, this might not be friendly for offline users,
> but would help us to have smaller packages for Windows users.

But is size an issue?   I mean if it really was people would not be insisting
on a single huge blob installer, if there is a way to update just the newer
bits through the osgeo4w installer (ignoring that wouldn't work for the current
transition either).

Anyway, IIRC the proj downloads would need to happen transparently as the
transformation does - possibly coordinated between several threads that etc.pp.
And there was no easy take on that.


Jürgen

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Re: [Qgis-user] QGIS 3.18.0 and QGIS 3.14.4 (LTR) packages released and OSGeo4W reboot

[Andrea Giudiceandrea]

Jürgen E. Fischer wrote
> But it probably just proj-data and numpy.  proj/share has ~580MB in the
> new
> installer while its only 14MB in the old.  numpy with mkl is 600MB vs.
> numpy
> w/o 45MB in the old.

Thank you very much for the clarification.

Best regards.

Andrea



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Re: [Qgis-user] QGIS 3.18.0 and QGIS 3.14.4 (LTR) packages released and OSGeo4W reboot

[Jorge Gustavo Rocha]

Hi Jürgen,

I knew that something like that was supported. Isn't supported by QGIS?

https://github.com/qgis/QGIS/blob/20542f354d540b1c2639ea754abcd33369132210/src/app/qgsappcoordinateoperationhandlers.cpp#L219

This displays the dialog about the missing grid and provides the link to
download and install the missing grid from cdn.prog.org.

Maybe Nyall can provide more details, but I think this is supported on
QGIS side. As Greg said, this might not be friendly for offline users,
but would help us to have smaller packages for Windows users.

Regards,

Jorge

Às 16:43 de 27/02/21, Jürgen E. Fischer escreveu:
> Hi Jorge,
>
> On Sat, 27. Feb 2021 at 15:56:43 +, Jorge Gustavo Rocha wrote:
>> I thought, but I'm not sure, that QGIS was able to download proj grid
>> files on demand. It's this in place anymore? It would make the package
>> smaller.
> It's PROJ that can download grids - but QGIS doesn't support that.
>
>
> Jürgen
>
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Re: [Qgis-user] QGIS 3.18.0 and QGIS 3.14.4 (LTR) packages released and OSGeo4W reboot

[Jürgen E . Fischer]

Hi Jorge,

On Sat, 27. Feb 2021 at 15:56:43 +, Jorge Gustavo Rocha wrote:
> I thought, but I'm not sure, that QGIS was able to download proj grid
> files on demand. It's this in place anymore? It would make the package
> smaller.

It's PROJ that can download grids - but QGIS doesn't support that.


Jürgen

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Re: [Qgis-user] QGIS 3.18.0 and QGIS 3.14.4 (LTR) packages released and OSGeo4W reboot

[Greg Troxel]

Jorge Gustavo Rocha  writes:

> Thanks, Jürgen for the feedback.
>
> I thought, but I'm not sure, that QGIS was able to download proj grid
> files on demand. It's this in place anymore? It would make the package
> smaller.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jorge

It would, but it would also make it not work offline.  In general this
is a difficult solution with no one approach that works for everyone.
It's going to get worse over time as more and higher-resolution grid
files arrive in the proj world.


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Re: [Qgis-user] QGIS 3.18.0 and QGIS 3.14.4 (LTR) packages released and OSGeo4W reboot

[Jorge Gustavo Rocha]

Thanks, Jürgen for the feedback.

I thought, but I'm not sure, that QGIS was able to download proj grid
files on demand. It's this in place anymore? It would make the package
smaller.

Regards,

Jorge


Às 12:50 de 27/02/21, Jürgen E. Fischer escreveu:
> Hi Andrea,
>
> On Sat, 27. Feb 2021 at 00:27:22 -0700, Andrea Giudiceandrea wrote:
>> why is the MSI installer size 1.1 GB, while the exe installer is only 391
>> MB?
> A lot of the dependencies are different, a newer compiler was used,
> compression might be different.
>
> But it probably just proj-data and numpy.  proj/share has ~580MB in the new
> installer while its only 14MB in the old.  numpy with mkl is 600MB vs. numpy
> w/o 45MB in the old.
>
> After all proj-data blocked the update from PROJ 6 to 7 for a while since that
> alone would have exceeded NSIS 2 GB limit.
>
>
> Jürgen
>
>
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Re: [Qgis-user] QGIS 3.18.0 and QGIS 3.14.4 (LTR) packages released and OSGeo4W reboot

[Jürgen E . Fischer]

Hi Andrea,

On Sat, 27. Feb 2021 at 00:27:22 -0700, Andrea Giudiceandrea wrote:
> why is the MSI installer size 1.1 GB, while the exe installer is only 391
> MB?

A lot of the dependencies are different, a newer compiler was used,
compression might be different.

But it probably just proj-data and numpy.  proj/share has ~580MB in the new
installer while its only 14MB in the old.  numpy with mkl is 600MB vs. numpy
w/o 45MB in the old.

After all proj-data blocked the update from PROJ 6 to 7 for a while since that
alone would have exceeded NSIS 2 GB limit.


Jürgen

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Re: [Qgis-user] QGIS 3.18.0 and QGIS 3.14.4 (LTR) packages released and OSGeo4W reboot

[Andrea Giudiceandrea]

Jürgen E. Fischer wrote
> An experimental MSI installer is now available on
> 
> https://qgis.org/downloads/QGIS-OSGeo4W-3.18.0-1.msi

Hi Jürgen,
why is the MSI installer size 1.1 GB, while the exe installer is only 391
MB?

Regards.

Andrea



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Re: [Qgis-user] QGIS 3.18.0 and QGIS 3.14.4 (LTR) packages released and OSGeo4W reboot

[Jürgen E . Fischer]

Hi,

On Tue, 23. Feb 2021 at 17:36:48 +0100, Jürgen E. Fischer wrote:
> The testing repository will eventually replace the old repository and also be
> used to make standalone installers.   As it has grown to exceed the 2GB limit 
> of NSIS the standalone installers will then be switched to MSI.

An experimental MSI installer is now available on

https://qgis.org/downloads/QGIS-OSGeo4W-3.18.0-1.msi


Jürgen

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Re: [Qgis-user] QGIS 3.18.0 and QGIS 3.14.4 (LTR) packages released and OSGeo4W reboot

[Jürgen E . Fischer]

Hi Julien,

On Wed, 24. Feb 2021 at 11:40:20 +0100, Julien Cabieces wrote:
> Great work!! Thanks! 
 
> > The package recipes currently reside at
> > https://github.com/jef-n/OSGeo4W.
 
> Do you plan to accept PR on packages?  Would it be possible to build
> automatically packages with CI in the future? 

Well, not there.  It should probably be moved to osgeo first - but there I
can't create repos.  I also created one at git.osgeo.org a while ago, but
didn't push it there either yet.

And yes, reviving (and probably extending) the github workflow based on this is
intended.  But there are also people suggesting to kill it all in favor of
snakes - and to do cpr on the dead horse the old repo is.  Not from the same
people of course.

My next stop would be continuing with the MSI standalone, based on the packages
from the new repo (should be almost ready - but I need to recollect the bits).


Jürgen

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Re: [Qgis-user] QGIS 3.18.0 and QGIS 3.14.4 (LTR) packages released and OSGeo4W reboot

[Jürgen E . Fischer]

Hi Bo,

On Wed, 24. Feb 2021 at 10:52:32 +0100, Bo Victor Thomsen wrote:
> Den 23-02-2021 kl. 17:36 skrev Jürgen E. Fischer:
> > The new installer also doesn't require administrator privileges anymore.

> Jürgen, That is super duper good news !!
> 
> How did you manage this ? Will the osgeo4w installer not place any dll's in
> the windows\system32 directory anymore ?

The administrator rights were mainly necessary to install the MS runtimes - and
earlier we used a number of them, for a lot of packages didn't keep track
of which required which, therefore didn't surely know which one could be left
out.  The older ones and the newer one don't have to be installed, but
inbetween there where some in between did.

Now everything is built with one compiler (except GRASS) and requires only one
runtime, which doesn't require installation - just dropping the DLLs in is
enough.

But conflicting DLLs in system32 might still be an issue.  The installer only
addresses a few common ones like openssl and opencl - and if you need those,
you'll not get around running the installer elevated.

QGIS itself is less vulnerable to such issues as it uses
AddDllDirectory/SetDefaultDllDirectories to avoid system32's otherwise
prominent role.

Thinking of it, we might need to add that to crssync too - it inherited a lot
of indirect dependencies when GDAL/OGR became a core provider.


Jürgen

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Re: [Qgis-user] QGIS 3.18.0 and QGIS 3.14.4 (LTR) packages released and OSGeo4W reboot

[Julien Cabieces]

Hi Jurgen,

Great work!! Thanks! 

> The package recipes currently reside at
> https://github.com/jef-n/OSGeo4W.

Do you plan to accept PR on packages? Would it be possible to build
automatically packages with CI in the future? 

Kind regards,
Julien

> Hi there,
>
> I'm happy to announce that the QGIS packages of 3.16.4 (LTR) 'Hannover' and 
> the
> our latest release 3.18.0 'Zürich' are ready on
> https://qgis.org/de/site/forusers/download.html.  This includes Linux, Mac and
> Windows packages.  With the availability of a new regular release the current
> long-term release 3.16 replaces the previous long-term release 3.10 in the 
> long
> term package repositories.
>
> The Windows standalone installer are as usual made from the OSGeo4W packages.
>
> In OSGeo4W there has lately been a big effort to reboot it, meaning that it 
> has 
> been completely rebuilt using newer source versions of mostly every package 
> using a newer compiler.  As this happened shortly before the QGIS release the
> new packages are still in a separate repository for testing.
>
> You can install them using the osgeo4w installer on
> http://download.osgeo.org/osgeo4w/testing/osgeo4w-setup.exe (note the testing 
> -
> the old installer will also work, if you point it to the new site, but it will
> default to the old).
>
> Within the reboot a lot of old packages were dropped (including dependencies 
> to 
> old microsoft runtimes), new packages were introduced and also package names
> were revised.
>
> Long story short: you cannot upgrade from old installs and have to remove and
> reinstall or use a separate directory.  As the new OSGeo4W only supports 64bit
> the default root directory was changed to C:\OSGeo4W, which might help with
> that if you were on 64bit earlier.
>
> Also note that it now only has one version of Python - namely 3.9, which
> doesn't support Windows 7 anymore.  Other updates include Qt 5.15, GDAL 3.2,
> PROJ 7.2 and SAGA 7.8.
>
> It also has PDAL 2.2 which is required for native support of point clouds in 
> QGIS - something that you find lacking in the "old" OSGeo4W repository and in
> turn in the current standalones.
>
> The new installer also doesn't require administrator privileges anymore.  
> Unless you run it elevated (ie. as Administrator) the option to create 
> shortcuts for all users will be unavailable.
>
> The testing repository will eventually replace the old repository and also be
> used to make standalone installers.   As it has grown to exceed the 2GB limit 
> of NSIS the standalone installers will then be switched to MSI.
>
> The package recipes currently reside at https://github.com/jef-n/OSGeo4W.
>
> Please test and report packaging issues to the OSGeo4W TRAC at
> https://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo4w.
>
>
>
> Jürgen

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Re: [Qgis-user] QGIS 3.18.0 and QGIS 3.14.4 (LTR) packages released and OSGeo4W reboot

[Bo Victor Thomsen]

Den 23-02-2021 kl. 17:36 skrev Jürgen E. Fischer:

The new installer also doesn't require administrator privileges anymore.


Jürgen, That is super duper good news !!

How did you manage this ? Will the osgeo4w installer not place any dll's 
in the windows\system32 directory anymore ?



Med venlig hilsen / Kind regards

Bo Victor Thomsen

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Re: [Qgis-user] QGIS 3.18.0 and QGIS 3.14.4 (LTR) packages released and OSGeo4W reboot

[Jürgen E . Fischer]

Hi Michael,

On Wed, 24. Feb 2021 at 07:02:06 +, Michael Dufty wrote:
> >Long story short: you cannot upgrade from old installs and have to remove
> >and reinstall or use a separate directory.
 
> To make it even shorter, can you make a recommendation of what to do?
> If we don't need point clouds, can we just wait and eventually OSGEO4W will
> catch up, or are we going to eventually have to uninstall and reinstall
> anyway.

I currently don't have plans to make clean upgrades from the old to the new
osgeo4w.


Jürgen

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Re: [Qgis-user] QGIS 3.18.0 and QGIS 3.14.4 (LTR) packages released and OSGeo4W reboot

[Michael Dufty]

>Long story short: you cannot upgrade from old installs and have to remove and 
>reinstall or use a separate directory.

To make it even shorter, can you make a recommendation of what to do?
If we don't need point clouds, can we just wait and eventually OSGEO4W will 
catch up, or are we going to eventually have to uninstall and reinstall anyway.

On past evidence windows 10 will screw up all the default apps and icons if I 
uninstall and reinstall, so I'll probably wait if that is going to work 
eventually.



Michael Dufty
Senior Environmental Engineer


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Re: [Qgis-user] QGIS 3.18.0 and QGIS 3.14.4 (LTR) packages released and OSGeo4W reboot

[Martin Dobias]

Hi Jürgen

Great - thanks a lot for all your efforts!

As for PDAL / point clouds, during the development the initial requirement
for PDAL 2.2 has been later dropped to PDAL >= 1.7:
https://github.com/hobu/untwine/commit/5d83f32f81aa461a9b12f1084197aa7af5f8ec19

The current windows standalone QGIS installer is currently unable to open
LAS/LAZ files, which is confusing to users... Would it be possible to
compile QGIS with PDAL 1.8 (which is already included in osge4w packages) ?
There should be hopefully no code changes necessary. Howard says PDAL 1.8
is quite old and has some bugs, but that's still better than no LAS/LAZ
support at all :-)

Regards
Martin


On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 5:37 PM Jürgen E. Fischer  wrote:

> Hi there,
>
> I'm happy to announce that the QGIS packages of 3.16.4 (LTR) 'Hannover'
> and the
> our latest release 3.18.0 'Zürich' are ready on
> https://qgis.org/de/site/forusers/download.html.  This includes Linux,
> Mac and
> Windows packages.  With the availability of a new regular release the
> current
> long-term release 3.16 replaces the previous long-term release 3.10 in the
> long
> term package repositories.
>
> The Windows standalone installer are as usual made from the OSGeo4W
> packages.
>
> In OSGeo4W there has lately been a big effort to reboot it, meaning that
> it has
> been completely rebuilt using newer source versions of mostly every
> package
> using a newer compiler.  As this happened shortly before the QGIS release
> the
> new packages are still in a separate repository for testing.
>
> You can install them using the osgeo4w installer on
> http://download.osgeo.org/osgeo4w/testing/osgeo4w-setup.exe (note the
> testing -
> the old installer will also work, if you point it to the new site, but it
> will
> default to the old).
>
> Within the reboot a lot of old packages were dropped (including
> dependencies to
> old microsoft runtimes), new packages were introduced and also package
> names
> were revised.
>
> Long story short: you cannot upgrade from old installs and have to remove
> and
> reinstall or use a separate directory.  As the new OSGeo4W only supports
> 64bit
> the default root directory was changed to C:\OSGeo4W, which might help with
> that if you were on 64bit earlier.
>
> Also note that it now only has one version of Python - namely 3.9, which
> doesn't support Windows 7 anymore.  Other updates include Qt 5.15, GDAL
> 3.2,
> PROJ 7.2 and SAGA 7.8.
>
> It also has PDAL 2.2 which is required for native support of point clouds
> in
> QGIS - something that you find lacking in the "old" OSGeo4W repository and
> in
> turn in the current standalones.
>
> The new installer also doesn't require administrator privileges anymore.
> Unless you run it elevated (ie. as Administrator) the option to create
> shortcuts for all users will be unavailable.
>
> The testing repository will eventually replace the old repository and also
> be
> used to make standalone installers.   As it has grown to exceed the 2GB
> limit
> of NSIS the standalone installers will then be switched to MSI.
>
> The package recipes currently reside at https://github.com/jef-n/OSGeo4W.
>
> Please test and report packaging issues to the OSGeo4W TRAC at
> https://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo4w.
>
>
>
> Jürgen
>
> --
> Jürgen E. Fischer   norBIT GmbH Tel. +49-4931-918175-31
> Dipl.-Inf. (FH) Rheinstraße 13  Fax. +49-4931-918175-50
> Software Engineer   D-26506 Norden
> https://www.norbit.de
> QGIS release manager (PSC)  GermanyIRC: jef on FreeNode
> ___
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[Qgis-user] QGIS 3.18.0 and QGIS 3.14.4 (LTR) packages released and OSGeo4W reboot

[Jürgen E . Fischer]

Hi there,

I'm happy to announce that the QGIS packages of 3.16.4 (LTR) 'Hannover' and the
our latest release 3.18.0 'Zürich' are ready on
https://qgis.org/de/site/forusers/download.html.  This includes Linux, Mac and
Windows packages.  With the availability of a new regular release the current
long-term release 3.16 replaces the previous long-term release 3.10 in the long
term package repositories.

The Windows standalone installer are as usual made from the OSGeo4W packages.

In OSGeo4W there has lately been a big effort to reboot it, meaning that it has 
been completely rebuilt using newer source versions of mostly every package 
using a newer compiler.  As this happened shortly before the QGIS release the
new packages are still in a separate repository for testing.

You can install them using the osgeo4w installer on
http://download.osgeo.org/osgeo4w/testing/osgeo4w-setup.exe (note the testing -
the old installer will also work, if you point it to the new site, but it will
default to the old).

Within the reboot a lot of old packages were dropped (including dependencies to 
old microsoft runtimes), new packages were introduced and also package names
were revised.

Long story short: you cannot upgrade from old installs and have to remove and
reinstall or use a separate directory.  As the new OSGeo4W only supports 64bit
the default root directory was changed to C:\OSGeo4W, which might help with
that if you were on 64bit earlier.

Also note that it now only has one version of Python - namely 3.9, which
doesn't support Windows 7 anymore.  Other updates include Qt 5.15, GDAL 3.2,
PROJ 7.2 and SAGA 7.8.

It also has PDAL 2.2 which is required for native support of point clouds in 
QGIS - something that you find lacking in the "old" OSGeo4W repository and in
turn in the current standalones.

The new installer also doesn't require administrator privileges anymore.  
Unless you run it elevated (ie. as Administrator) the option to create 
shortcuts for all users will be unavailable.

The testing repository will eventually replace the old repository and also be
used to make standalone installers.   As it has grown to exceed the 2GB limit 
of NSIS the standalone installers will then be switched to MSI.

The package recipes currently reside at https://github.com/jef-n/OSGeo4W.

Please test and report packaging issues to the OSGeo4W TRAC at
https://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo4w.



Jürgen

-- 
Jürgen E. Fischer   norBIT GmbH Tel. +49-4931-918175-31
Dipl.-Inf. (FH) Rheinstraße 13  Fax. +49-4931-918175-50
Software Engineer   D-26506 Nordenhttps://www.norbit.de
QGIS release manager (PSC)  GermanyIRC: jef on FreeNode


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