Re: [Qgis-user] [QGIS-Developer] Thoughts on QGIS Development and LTR Releases
On Mon, 2 Mar 2020 at 05:03, Micha Silver wrote: > > This discussion has raised important issues and clarified concerns from the > user's perspective. But there is another hurdle that lies between developers > and users that hasn't been mentioned yet (not in this thread, anyway): > packaging. > > > Different packagers (on different repositories) release versions on different > schedule that may or may not be synchronized with the developers. What makes > the situation even more troublesome is release of dependencies at yet another > schedule. So all too often we find ourselves stuck after a routine system > update, with unresolved dependencies and partially or totally unusable > software. This has happened with QGIS and the grass plugin, and recently with > updates to proj4 and gdal. > > > There's no doubt that moving to a 2 year life cycle for LTS will help > mitigate this recurring problem. Actually, a 2 year cycle will make this far, far more problematic. An example is the proj library. QGIS 3.4 was developed using the older proj v4 library, and while it's possible to build it using proj v 6 or v7, it's not far from recommended. When proj v8 is released then it will become completely impossible to build QGIS 3.4. If we tried to squeeze another 12 months out of QGIS 3.4 then we'll bump into all sorts of linux packaging issues as the underlying linux distros upgrade to proj v6 or later. And that's completely out of our control... Nyall ___ Qgis-user mailing list Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org List info: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user Unsubscribe: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user
Re: [Qgis-user] [QGIS-Developer] Thoughts on QGIS Development and LTR Releases
Many thanks to Alexander Neto and Ben Hur Pintor for your clarifications. They do help me to understand the release schedule and the logics behind it a bit better. Although I see some differences in both answers (‘only bug fixes are allowed on pr’ or ‘pr include bug fixes’ (so it may include other things as well?)), maybe some of it will find it’s way to the Road Map page. Whether a LTR should last 1 year or longer, I leave that to others. I consider myself to be a ‘light user’ and probably just use a small portion of all that is available within qgis. From that perspective, both 1 or 2 years seem fine to me. Best regards, Jeroen Hovens Van: Qgis-user Namens Micha Silver Verzonden: zondag 1 maart 2020 20:03 Aan: Brent Wood CC: QGIS User ; qgis-developer Onderwerp: Re: [Qgis-user] [QGIS-Developer] Thoughts on QGIS Development and LTR Releases This discussion has raised important issues and clarified concerns from the user's perspective. But there is another hurdle that lies between developers and users that hasn't been mentioned yet (not in this thread, anyway): packaging. Different packagers (on different repositories) release versions on different schedule that may or may not be synchronized with the developers. What makes the situation even more troublesome is release of dependencies at yet another schedule. So all too often we find ourselves stuck after a routine system update, with unresolved dependencies and partially or totally unusable software. This has happened with QGIS and the grass plugin, and recently with updates to proj4 and gdal. There's no doubt that moving to a 2 year life cycle for LTS will help mitigate this recurring problem. On 01/03/2020 20:02, Brent Wood wrote: I'd also like to toss in my preference for a 2 year LTS. My reasons are similar to others who have al;ready posted. I've been using QGIS since v0.2, and running QGIS training workshops annually for several years now. While the new capabilities are great, I find users are frustrated in that they have difficulty keeping up - no sooner do they become comfortable with a version & they need to upgrade. People coming on my workshops are running various versions, and so some things work & others don't. I run 3.4, 3.10 (& still 2.18) as well as the nightly builds at times... so appreciate the benefits & issues of the current situation. IMHO, the extra stability of a longer term LTS will, overall, be beneficial. Thanks Brent Wood Brent Wood Programme leader: Environmental Information Delivery NIWA DDI: +64 (4) 3860529 From: Qgis-user <mailto:qgis-user-boun...@lists.osgeo.org> on behalf of Ben Hur Pintor <mailto:bnhr@gmail.com> Sent: Sunday, March 1, 2020 17:41 To: Alexandre Neto Cc: QGIS User; qgis-developer Subject: Re: [Qgis-user] [QGIS-Developer] Thoughts on QGIS Development and LTR Releases Hi everyone, I'm not a QGIS developer but I've been a user since 1.X days. Aside from a few quirks (e.g. dependency issues on Linux), I've always liked the QGIS release cycle so I'm coming from that perspective. To add to Alexandre's explanation, this is usually how I explain QGIS releases: There are 3 branches of development - LR (Latest Release), LTR (Long Term Release), and nightly builds. Let's take a look at the LR and LTR branches. I usually take "maintained" to mean that the branch is actively developed -- bugs will be fixed, new features are added, etc. The LTR (now 3.10.3) is maintained until the next LTR (in 12 months when 3.16.4 becomes the LTR). During those 12 months, a PR (Point Release) will be released for the LTR branch each month (named 3.10.4, 3.10.5, ..., 3.10.14). This PR includes the bug fixes for 3.10.X. Being an LTR means that there (usually) won't be any changes that will break that version in 1 year. This is usually why people think of LTR as "stable". The LR (now 3.12.0) contains the most recent features of QGIS. A new LR is released every 4 months. The next LR (3.14) is slated to be released in June 2020, the next after that is 3.16 in October 2020. The 2nd LR released after the release of the LTR is the version that will become the next LTR. In this case, the 3.16 version that will be released in October 2020 is slated to become the LTR after 4 months (e.g. 3.16.4 will become the LTR by February 2021). For each month, a PR is also released for the LR branch until a new LR is released. For example, there will be a 3.12.1, 3.12.2, and 3.12.3 releases for March, April, and May 2020 until the 3.14 release in June. This repeats for 3.14.1,..,3.14.3 until the 3.16 release in October. Throughout the year, there can be big changes between LR versions (e.g. between 3.12, 3.14, and 3.16) as compared to the LTR which stays at 3.10.X. It
Re: [Qgis-user] [QGIS-Developer] Thoughts on QGIS Development and LTR Releases
This discussion has raised important issues and clarified concerns from the user's perspective. But there is another hurdle that lies between developers and users that hasn't been mentioned yet (not in this thread, anyway): packaging. Different packagers (on different repositories) release versions on different schedule that may or may not be synchronized with the developers. What makes the situation even more troublesome is release of dependencies at yet another schedule. So all too often we find ourselves stuck after a routine system update, with unresolved dependencies and partially or totally unusable software. This has happened with QGIS and the grass plugin, and recently with updates to proj4 and gdal. There's no doubt that moving to a 2 year life cycle for LTS will help mitigate this recurring problem. On 01/03/2020 20:02, Brent Wood wrote: I'd also like to toss in my preference for a 2 year LTS. My reasons are similar to others who have al;ready posted. I've been using QGIS since v0.2, and running QGIS training workshops annually for several years now. While the new capabilities are great, I find users are frustrated in that they have difficulty keeping up - no sooner do they become comfortable with a version & they need to upgrade. People coming on my workshops are running various versions, and so some things work & others don't. I run 3.4, 3.10 (& still 2.18) as well as the nightly builds at times... so appreciate the benefits & issues of the current situation. IMHO, the extra stability of a longer term LTS will, overall, be beneficial. Thanks Brent Wood Brent Wood Programme leader: Environmental Information Delivery NIWA DDI: +64 (4) 3860529 From: Qgis-user on behalf of Ben Hur Pintor Sent: Sunday, March 1, 2020 17:41 To: Alexandre Neto Cc: QGIS User; qgis-developer Subject: Re: [Qgis-user] [QGIS-Developer] Thoughts on QGIS Development and LTR Releases Hi everyone, I'm not a QGIS developer but I've been a user since 1.X days. Aside from a few quirks (e.g. dependency issues on Linux), I've always liked the QGIS release cycle so I'm coming from that perspective. To add to Alexandre's explanation, this is usually how I explain QGIS releases: There are 3 branches of development - LR (Latest Release), LTR (Long Term Release), and nightly builds. Let's take a look at the LR and LTR branches. I usually take "maintained" to mean that the branch is actively developed -- bugs will be fixed, new features are added, etc. The LTR (now 3.10.3) is maintained until the next LTR (in 12 months when 3.16.4 becomes the LTR). During those 12 months, a PR (Point Release) will be released for the LTR branch each month (named 3.10.4, 3.10.5, ..., 3.10.14). This PR includes the bug fixes for 3.10.X. Being an LTR means that there (usually) won't be any changes that will break that version in 1 year. This is usually why people think of LTR as "stable". The LR (now 3.12.0) contains the most recent features of QGIS. A new LR is released every 4 months. The next LR (3.14) is slated to be released in June 2020, the next after that is 3.16 in October 2020. The 2nd LR released after the release of the LTR is the version that will become the next LTR. In this case, the 3.16 version that will be released in October 2020 is slated to become the LTR after 4 months (e.g. 3.16.4 will become the LTR by February 2021). For each month, a PR is also released for the LR branch until a new LR is released. For example, there will be a 3.12.1, 3.12.2, and 3.12.3 releases for March, April, and May 2020 until the 3.14 release in June. This repeats for 3.14.1,..,3.14.3 until the 3.16 release in October. Throughout the year, there can be big changes between LR versions (e.g. between 3.12, 3.14, and 3.16) as compared to the LTR which stays at 3.10.X. It's also worth noting that useful features in the LR branch can be backported (added to) the LTR branch. The "LR/PR" released every 4 months denotes that the release is a new LR. The "LTR/PR" released in October denotes that this release will be the next LTR. It is not put in the LTR repo until 4 months later (February) where it officially becomes the LTR. We can also think of it this way: For the LTR branch, you can expect updates every month of its life (or with every point release) with 3.10.3, 3.10.4, 3.10.5, ..., 3.10.14 but these will usually be minor and not so drastic. Meanwhile, there may be drastic and major changes between LRs like 3.12, 3.14, 3.16, etc. but only minor changes between PRs of the same LR -- eg 3.12.1 and 3.12.2, 3.14.1 and 3.14.2, etc. I also agree that the road map found at https://www.qgis.org/en/site/getinvolved/development/roadm
Re: [Qgis-user] [QGIS-Developer] Thoughts on QGIS Development and LTR Releases
I'd also like to toss in my preference for a 2 year LTS. My reasons are similar to others who have al;ready posted. I've been using QGIS since v0.2, and running QGIS training workshops annually for several years now. While the new capabilities are great, I find users are frustrated in that they have difficulty keeping up - no sooner do they become comfortable with a version & they need to upgrade. People coming on my workshops are running various versions, and so some things work & others don't. I run 3.4, 3.10 (& still 2.18) as well as the nightly builds at times... so appreciate the benefits & issues of the current situation. IMHO, the extra stability of a longer term LTS will, overall, be beneficial. Thanks Brent Wood Brent Wood Programme leader: Environmental Information Delivery NIWA DDI: +64 (4) 3860529 From: Qgis-user on behalf of Ben Hur Pintor Sent: Sunday, March 1, 2020 17:41 To: Alexandre Neto Cc: QGIS User; qgis-developer Subject: Re: [Qgis-user] [QGIS-Developer] Thoughts on QGIS Development and LTR Releases Hi everyone, I'm not a QGIS developer but I've been a user since 1.X days. Aside from a few quirks (e.g. dependency issues on Linux), I've always liked the QGIS release cycle so I'm coming from that perspective. To add to Alexandre's explanation, this is usually how I explain QGIS releases: There are 3 branches of development - LR (Latest Release), LTR (Long Term Release), and nightly builds. Let's take a look at the LR and LTR branches. I usually take "maintained" to mean that the branch is actively developed -- bugs will be fixed, new features are added, etc. The LTR (now 3.10.3) is maintained until the next LTR (in 12 months when 3.16.4 becomes the LTR). During those 12 months, a PR (Point Release) will be released for the LTR branch each month (named 3.10.4, 3.10.5, ..., 3.10.14). This PR includes the bug fixes for 3.10.X. Being an LTR means that there (usually) won't be any changes that will break that version in 1 year. This is usually why people think of LTR as "stable". The LR (now 3.12.0) contains the most recent features of QGIS. A new LR is released every 4 months. The next LR (3.14) is slated to be released in June 2020, the next after that is 3.16 in October 2020. The 2nd LR released after the release of the LTR is the version that will become the next LTR. In this case, the 3.16 version that will be released in October 2020 is slated to become the LTR after 4 months (e.g. 3.16.4 will become the LTR by February 2021). For each month, a PR is also released for the LR branch until a new LR is released. For example, there will be a 3.12.1, 3.12.2, and 3.12.3 releases for March, April, and May 2020 until the 3.14 release in June. This repeats for 3.14.1,..,3.14.3 until the 3.16 release in October. Throughout the year, there can be big changes between LR versions (e.g. between 3.12, 3.14, and 3.16) as compared to the LTR which stays at 3.10.X. It's also worth noting that useful features in the LR branch can be backported (added to) the LTR branch. The "LR/PR" released every 4 months denotes that the release is a new LR. The "LTR/PR" released in October denotes that this release will be the next LTR. It is not put in the LTR repo until 4 months later (February) where it officially becomes the LTR. We can also think of it this way: For the LTR branch, you can expect updates every month of its life (or with every point release) with 3.10.3, 3.10.4, 3.10.5, ..., 3.10.14 but these will usually be minor and not so drastic. Meanwhile, there may be drastic and major changes between LRs like 3.12, 3.14, 3.16, etc. but only minor changes between PRs of the same LR -- eg 3.12.1 and 3.12.2, 3.14.1 and 3.14.2, etc. I also agree that the road map found at https://www.qgis.org/en/site/getinvolved/development/roadmap.html<https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.qgis.org%2Fen%2Fsite%2Fgetinvolved%2Fdevelopment%2Froadmap.html&data=02%7C01%7Cbrent.wood%40niwa.co.nz%7Cdf484ed7b9284ad3254508d7bd9af506%7C41caed736a0c468aba499ff6aafd1c77%7C0%7C0%7C637186345604237900&sdata=VK6ZNQWbKIOODtsJ04mS5FTZhF8Nyz4AGCUgo5shC54%3D&reserved=0> is geared a lot towards dev people but, in its defense, it is located under the "Get Involved/Development" part of the documentation. If I have misrepresented or misunderstood anything, please don't hesitate to correct me. All the best, Ben Hur On Sun, Mar 1, 2020 at 12:13 PM Alexandre Neto mailto:senhor.n...@gmail.com>> wrote: Hi Groene, I agree that the Road map is not easy to understand. Just to clarify things (I hope): The current LTR is 3.10 (currently at 3.10.3). It only became LTR in February although its first release was done in october (3.10.0). The idea is to let it mature
Re: [Qgis-user] [QGIS-Developer] Thoughts on QGIS Development and LTR Releases
Hi everyone, I'm not a QGIS developer but I've been a user since 1.X days. Aside from a few quirks (e.g. dependency issues on Linux), I've always liked the QGIS release cycle so I'm coming from that perspective. To add to Alexandre's explanation, this is usually how I explain QGIS releases: There are 3 branches of development - LR (Latest Release), LTR (Long Term Release), and nightly builds. Let's take a look at the LR and LTR branches. I usually take "maintained" to mean that the branch is actively developed -- bugs will be fixed, new features are added, etc. The LTR (now 3.10.3) is maintained until the next LTR (in 12 months when 3.16.4 becomes the LTR). During those 12 months, a PR (Point Release) will be released for the LTR branch each month (named 3.10.4, 3.10.5, ..., 3.10.14). This PR includes the bug fixes for 3.10.X. Being an LTR means that there (usually) won't be any changes that will break that version in 1 year. This is usually why people think of LTR as "stable". The LR (now 3.12.0) contains the most recent features of QGIS. A new LR is released every 4 months. The next LR (3.14) is slated to be released in June 2020, the next after that is 3.16 in October 2020. The 2nd LR released after the release of the LTR is the version that will become the next LTR. In this case, the 3.16 version that will be released in October 2020 is slated to become the LTR after 4 months (e.g. 3.16.4 will become the LTR by February 2021). For each month, a PR is also released for the LR branch until a new LR is released. For example, there will be a 3.12.1, 3.12.2, and 3.12.3 releases for March, April, and May 2020 until the 3.14 release in June. This repeats for 3.14.1,..,3.14.3 until the 3.16 release in October. Throughout the year, there can be big changes between LR versions (e.g. between 3.12, 3.14, and 3.16) as compared to the LTR which stays at 3.10.X. It's also worth noting that useful features in the LR branch can be backported (added to) the LTR branch. The "LR/PR" released every 4 months denotes that the release is a new LR. The "LTR/PR" released in October denotes that this release will be the next LTR. It is not put in the LTR repo until 4 months later (February) where it officially becomes the LTR. We can also think of it this way: For the LTR branch, you can expect updates every month of its life (or with every point release) with 3.10.3, 3.10.4, 3.10.5, ..., 3.10.14 but these will usually be minor and not so drastic. Meanwhile, there may be drastic and major changes between LRs like 3.12, 3.14, 3.16, etc. but only minor changes between PRs of the same LR -- eg 3.12.1 and 3.12.2, 3.14.1 and 3.14.2, etc. I also agree that the road map found at https://www.qgis.org/en/site/getinvolved/development/roadmap.html is geared a lot towards dev people but, in its defense, it is located under the "Get Involved/Development" part of the documentation. If I have misrepresented or misunderstood anything, please don't hesitate to correct me. All the best, Ben Hur On Sun, Mar 1, 2020 at 12:13 PM Alexandre Neto wrote: > Hi Groene, > > I agree that the Road map is not easy to understand. Just to clarify > things (I hope): > > The current LTR is 3.10 (currently at 3.10.3). It only became LTR in > February although its first release was done in october (3.10.0). The idea > is to let it mature (and have a broader usage and tests) for at least 4 > months before it becomes LTR. > > This means that for the next 12 months, more or less every month a new > patch release will come out. That will be 3.10.4, 3.10.5 and so on. Only > bug fixes are allowed on these releases, no new features. > > If there is a version with some extra number (e.g. 3.4.13-3) it means that > something happened during packaging of the patch release, requiring a new > package/installer to be created. You should always try to use the latest > version of the LTR version, which should be the most stable one. > > Hope it helps. > > Alexandre Neto > > On Sat, Feb 29, 2020 at 7:11 PM Groene Bij wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> >> >> Thank you for bringing up this topic. >> >> For me the release schedule and the different abbreviations are not very >> helpful when choosing a qgis version to install. I am not a software >> developer and thus have little understanding what the different releases >> are all about. >> >> >> >> Clarity, however, is always appreciated, and that is the main thing >> missing in this topic: >> >> >> >> Chris is talking about 3.10.2 having been labeled LTR >> >> Qgis.org right now (29th of February) is mentioning 3.10.3 as LTR >> >> The release schedule on qgis.org is mentioning 3.10.3 as LR with 3.4.13 >> being the most recent LTR >> >> So things are unclear. Qgis.org itself seems to be unclear which version >> actually is the LTR. >> >> >> >> The information on the Road Map page (schedule release) is also unclear: >> >> “The schedule is aligned to produce roughly the same dates for each year >> given our four monthly releases
