Re: [ql-developers] K68 Core

2003-07-14 Thread Peter Graf
Phoebus wrote:

Legality is a big issue. I came across this while I was reading about a 
ZX81-on-a-chip clone (T80 core). I thought that it would be a good 
alternative when Motorola gives up the 68K family. As for the new 
Coldfires... have you seen : a. Their prices?, b. That Motorola won't make 
them really available in anything less than batches of 1000?
a. From the prices which were suggested to me, the Coldfire version 4e 
controllers will have one of the best price/performance ratios for chips 
with FPU on the market. I'll tell you more, once they are released, which 
should happen in a few months.

b. Yes.

All the best
Peter



Re: [ql-developers] K68 Core

2003-07-14 Thread Phoebus Dokos
On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 08:59:26 +0200, Peter Graf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Phoebus wrote:

Legality is a big issue. I came across this while I was reading about a 
ZX81-on-a-chip clone (T80 core). I thought that it would be a good 
alternative when Motorola gives up the 68K family. As for the new 
Coldfires... have you seen : a. Their prices?, b. That Motorola won't 
make them really available in anything less than batches of 1000?
a. From the prices which were suggested to me, the Coldfire version 4e 
controllers will have one of the best price/performance ratios for chips 
with FPU on the market. I'll tell you more, once they are released, which 
should happen in a few months.

b. Yes.

All the best
Peter
Hi Peter,
That's excellent news... I was under the impression... or at least talk and 
Motorola's own press releases gave me that impression, that the situation 
was very bleak. Will see also how Motorola will go ahead with the 
publicised full compatibility with the 68K (and the ultra high speeds they 
have in their "roadmap" (Trendy word this one these days ;-)

Phoebus



--
Phoebus Dokos - Undergrad in MIS
Eberly College of Business - Indiana U. of PA



Re: [ql-developers] K68 Core

2003-07-14 Thread P Witte

BRANE writes:

> > Or as Zeljko suggested a Crusoe (which is not crap) :-)
> > However because of their NDAs, binding agreements etc. it's out of the
> > question too.
>
> I don't like Transmeta.  Very closed design.
>
> > Another VERY good idea is the PowerPC (especially the new offerings from
> > IBM) which may not be that low consumption as a say a MIPS but it's
> > definitely the best CPU around in terms of price/performance for your
> buck.
> > Not to mention that it is fully supported. 68K-to-PowerPC translators
> > already exist and it could be the stuff of dreams for all
hobby-computing
> > afficionados (our QLers included). Unfortunately that too would require
a
> > huge investment, the market just doesn't have...
> >
>
> As I see it, PowerPC is not so vastly different from MIPS.
> I have searched for a nice model, but there is not such a thing.
Everything
> is either in BGA, obsolete or otherwise problematic.
>
> > Maybe (I say maybe) a good idea would be (given the QLs 20th
anniversary)
> > to gather all die-hard Amiga, Atari, QL (and other currently
regarded-as-
> > obscure) platform users to provide a viable alternative to the
> > mainstream... maybe a sourceforge project even?
>
> Not a bad idea. But IMHO problem with these things is:
>
> -closed design with finite resources. Whoever does the design, tries to
bake
> a buck (or ten) from selling it
>
> -they try to be 100% compatible and end up being uninteresting
>
> I am contemplating doing good old QL with new chips as a dead simple
> few_chips_design, preferably with old 68000.
>
> But problems that arise from that keep me spinning in an endless loop.
>
> With 68000, it's hard to ensure bandwidth needed for generation of a
decent
> picture (like 800x600 with 16bp or such).
> If design is beefed up for this, it stops being simple.
> If I consider alternatives, it causes chain of design changes which end
with
> whole thing being awfuly degeneric and mutated.
>
> Only few_chip_design that would capture true QL spirit while still being
> simple that I can envision is to do whole thing with Analog Devices
> ADSP-2192 DSP, emulating 68000 with DSP/blitter/FPU extensions.
>
> Everything else could be packed in a simple CPLD, along with a couple of
> SDRAMs.
>
> Unfortunately, ADSP-2192 is not cheap, until recently it was unavailable
and
> there is no free development software for it. Besides, it could probably
> emulate 68000 at some 30/50 MHz. With incredible math performance, but
still
> quite dated integer performance.
>
> So, after all this it seems to me that using MIPS (or similar machine)
with
> Linux and optinally emultaing native QL seems like a optimal solution...

StrongARM?

Per




Re: [ql-developers] K68 Core

2003-07-14 Thread BRANE



> StrongARM?
>

IMHO not nearlz powerfull enough for this and not so easily obtainable. Only
Intel makes those 200+ MHz chips, others like Atmel etc make much slower
units