Re: [Ql-Users] Source code availability for Minerva v1.92 or v1.89?
Martyn Hill via Ql-Users wrote: > Is QMON yet available as freeware, or otherwise for purchase? I don't think it's available yet, but should be eventually. Wolfgang, did you by any chance talk to TT about it? Marcel ___ QL-Users Mailing List
Re: [Ql-Users] Source code availability for Minerva v1.92 or v1.89?
What Martin says about Qmon! If/when you come to sell it, I'll have a copy please. I'm using QPC's 68020 and Gwass these days for the somrwhat irregular assembly eMagazine and Qmon2, standard, doesn't cope well with 68020 instructions. Obviously, that's exactly what I'm debugging now! Cheers, Norm. -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. ___ QL-Users Mailing List
Re: [Ql-Users] Source code availability for Minerva v1.92 or v1.89?
My dear Marcel Your write-up on the debugging process is so welcome! I had been planning to try a monitor, but was unsure how to trap code running in ROM, seeing as you can't set breakpoints there. So I meandered along in my own naive way instead comparing what source code I had available, disassembly of some parts of the working ROM version and empirical testing :-) Is QMON yet available as freeware, or otherwise for purchase? Yours, gratefully... M. On 27/02/2018 13:32, Marcel Kilgus via Ql-Users wrote: Martyn's reply was also sent to the list but probably wasn't published because it was HTML and my original replay wasn't published because it came from the wrong sender address... so anyway, here it is once more: Martyn Hill wrote: OMGosh! Do you know how long I have been staring at the serio/relio code - but failed to see that potential flaw? I shall test by recompiling Minnie an report back here... Thank you, Marcel, bl**dy genius!!! Thanks and you're welcome ;) It actually wasn't very difficult so I have written up a short essay about how I go about debugging this kind of stuff https://www.kilgus.net/2018/02/27/debugging-minerva/ It also includes ROM images with the fix. I didn't increase the version number for now because, well, Minerva is not my project and we're running out of "sub 2.00" version numbers, which might have compatibility implications in the future. Marcel ___ QL-Users Mailing List -- "There are 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary and those who don't." ___ QL-Users Mailing List
Re: [Ql-Users] Source code availability for Minerva v1.92 or v1.89?
Thanks Marcel! On 27/02/2018 13:33, Marcel Kilgus via Ql-Users wrote: Martyn Hill via Ql-Users wrote: I looked again at the other serio vectored routines that themselves call io_pend and determined that it was wise to preserve /their/ serio key in d0 before resetting to 0 for io_pend, to avoid hammering their ability to locate the correct NET driver vector. This step may prove unnecessary, but harmless. The called routines do not rely on the value in D0 and they have to overwrite it anyway with their result status. So yeah, it's harmless but unnecessary ;) Both with and without TK2 active, Minnie v1.98b was able to successfully LBYTES the image from another QL across the QLNet. :-) As MK put it - back to '...more productive work' - aka, the QLNet to USB Bridge adapter (QLUB) - just another couple of weeks before I complete the SMSQ/E coding to talk to the uC... Sounds like a much better use of your time, good luck :-) Marcel ___ QL-Users Mailing List -- "There are 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary and those who don't." ___ QL-Users Mailing List
Re: [Ql-Users] Source code availability for Minerva v1.92 or v1.89?
Martyn Hill via Ql-Users wrote: > I looked again at the other serio vectored routines that themselves call > io_pend and determined that it was wise to preserve /their/ serio key in > d0 before resetting to 0 for io_pend, to avoid hammering their ability > to locate the correct NET driver vector. This step may prove > unnecessary, but harmless. The called routines do not rely on the value in D0 and they have to overwrite it anyway with their result status. So yeah, it's harmless but unnecessary ;) > Both with and without TK2 active, Minnie v1.98b was able to successfully > LBYTES the image from another QL across the QLNet. :-) > As MK put it - back to '...more productive work' - aka, the QLNet to USB > Bridge adapter (QLUB) - just another couple of weeks before I complete > the SMSQ/E coding to talk to the uC... Sounds like a much better use of your time, good luck :-) Marcel ___ QL-Users Mailing List
Re: [Ql-Users] Source code availability for Minerva v1.92 or v1.89?
Martyn's reply was also sent to the list but probably wasn't published because it was HTML and my original replay wasn't published because it came from the wrong sender address... so anyway, here it is once more: Martyn Hill wrote: > OMGosh! > > Do you know how long I have been staring at the serio/relio code - > but failed to see that potential flaw? > > I shall test by recompiling Minnie an report back here... > > Thank you, Marcel, bl**dy genius!!! Thanks and you're welcome ;) It actually wasn't very difficult so I have written up a short essay about how I go about debugging this kind of stuff https://www.kilgus.net/2018/02/27/debugging-minerva/ It also includes ROM images with the fix. I didn't increase the version number for now because, well, Minerva is not my project and we're running out of "sub 2.00" version numbers, which might have compatibility implications in the future. Marcel ___ QL-Users Mailing List
Re: [Ql-Users] Source code availability for Minerva v1.92 or v1.89?
Well caught, Marcel :) Per On 27/02/2018 00:00, Marcel Kilgus via Ql-Users wrote: Martyn Hill via Ql-Users wrote: Specifically, when receiving via LBYTES (and SBYTES at the remote end), Minerva 1.97+ on its own receives perfectly, but once the NET driver is effectively replaced with TK2 (upto v2.23), issuing LBYTES will completely hang the /receiving /QL - immediately and regardless of whether the sending end has even started. I had a quick look and actually this was caused by Lau trying to save 2 bytes. When you look at io_serio_asm io_pend *moveq #0,d0 test routine is the first element bsr.s vectest set up test routine address bra.s callit go do it you see that the moveq is commented out because "d0 is 0 anyway!". Well, except in the case when io_pend is called through headr1, in this case D0 has some other value and the whole thing will crash. I hope you can now resume more productive work :-) Cheers, Marcel ___ QL-Users Mailing List ___ QL-Users Mailing List
Re: [Ql-Users] Source code availability for Minerva v1.92 or v1.89?
In case you are using a ROM expansion, latest versions of Minerva have trouble with that. Daniele From: Ql-Users <ql-users-boun...@lists.q-v-d.com> on behalf of Martyn Hill via Ql-Users <ql-users@lists.q-v-d.com> Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2018 6:51 AM To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com Cc: Martyn Hill Subject: [Ql-Users] Source code availability for Minerva v1.92 or v1.89? Hi everyone! I'm looking to get a hold of the *source *for either of *Minerva v1.92 *or *v1.89*. We have v1.98 source available, which I have poured over for /many /an hour... Is anyone able to contact the QView team to ask, or else has a copy to hand of either version of source code and has permission to release to a enthusiastic tester? Whilst I can continue using Min v1.92 +TK2 with full & reliable networking, my aim is to run the latest Minerva**available - possibly after hacking v1.98 or TK2 to restore /full /QLNet compatibility**between them**- see below.* * *Context:* In my on-going exploration and testing of the network on the BBQL, I discovered an apparent incompatibility between Minerva v1.97 and 1.98 whenever TK2 (any version) is loaded when it comes to using LBYTES specifically. Other uses of the NET driver work as more-or-less as expected (OPEN, LOAD, SBYTES, etc), albeit with some additional latency sometimes observed. I posted a thread on the forum a while back but, at that time, I had reservations about the hardware state of my own 2x QL motherboards (an Iss7 and an Iss5 - both 'hacked' quite a bit.) Since then, I have tested with other QL motherboards (Iss6 and another Iss5 - no hacks) and made adjustments to the TK2 code to validate and now have a degree of confidence that there really is something odd with Minerva + TK2 /after /Minerva v1.92. Specifically, when receiving via LBYTES (and SBYTES at the remote end), Minerva 1.97+ on its own receives perfectly, but once the NET driver is effectively replaced with TK2 (upto v2.23), issuing LBYTES will completely hang the /receiving /QL - immediately and regardless of whether the sending end has even started. It doesn't seem to make a jot of difference what is running at the /sending/ end - nor which issue of motherboard are at either end... ROM (Rx)w/o TK2with TK2 - --- JS and MG OK OK Min v1.89 OK OK Min v1.92 OK OK Min v1.97 OK Hangs on LBYTES Min v1.98 OK Hangs on LBYTES (I don't know how well that table will render...) I have already hacked the TK2 (v2.23) NET driver source to allow both the Minerva NET and the TK2 NET driver (renamed to 'TNT') to co-exist, and also to allow both Minerva's LBYTES and TK2's equivalent procedure (again, renamed.) When using the Minerva NET driver, but still with TK2 loaded, normal service resumes. The moment LBYTES is issued (again on Min v1.97/1.98) but against the renamed 'TNT' driver, the receiver hangs again. As one might expect from the above, Minerva v1.92 and 1.89 execute LBYTES perfectly well using /either /NET or the TNT variant. I suspect some combination of register or stack usage/dependencies that are no longer as TK2 expects /after /Min v1.92, but after literally man-days of cross comparing the various source codes available, I can't nail it down and its bugging me :-) What I am missing is a decent disassembly of one of the 'working' Minerva versions, or better still, the source. Hence my request. If I can't lay my hands on the source, I'll resort to running DEA or IDIS against the Minerva v1.98 ROM, but that's tedious as hell :-) Any takers? Regards, *Martyn Hill.* -- "There are 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary and those who don't." ___ QL-Users Mailing List ___ QL-Users Mailing List
Re: [Ql-Users] Source code availability for Minerva v1.92 or v1.89?
Ok. On 25/02/2018 21:05, Martyn Hill via Ql-Users wrote: Hi Per That would be excellent - thank you! I'll rely on Google to translate what I can't decipher of the German. I'll PM you via the QL Forum with my personal email, if that's alright. Thanks again! M. On 25/02/2018 18:56, pjwitte via Ql-Users wrote: I have a commented (in German!) disassembly of V1.89, if thats of any interest. It seems quite thorough and detailed, but Ive not tried to reassemble it. Let me know where to send it if you want it. Per On 25/02/2018 15:51, Martyn Hill via Ql-Users wrote: Hi everyone! I'm looking to get a hold of the *source *for either of *Minerva v1.92 *or *v1.89*. We have v1.98 source available, which I have poured over for /many /an hour... <> ___ QL-Users Mailing List ___ QL-Users Mailing List
Re: [Ql-Users] Source code availability for Minerva v1.92 or v1.89?
Hi Per That would be excellent - thank you! I'll rely on Google to translate what I can't decipher of the German. I'll PM you via the QL Forum with my personal email, if that's alright. Thanks again! M. On 25/02/2018 18:56, pjwitte via Ql-Users wrote: I have a commented (in German!) disassembly of V1.89, if thats of any interest. It seems quite thorough and detailed, but Ive not tried to reassemble it. Let me know where to send it if you want it. Per On 25/02/2018 15:51, Martyn Hill via Ql-Users wrote: Hi everyone! I'm looking to get a hold of the *source *for either of *Minerva v1.92 *or *v1.89*. We have v1.98 source available, which I have poured over for /many /an hour... <> ___ QL-Users Mailing List -- "There are 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary and those who don't." ___ QL-Users Mailing List
Re: [Ql-Users] Source code availability for Minerva v1.92 or v1.89?
I have a commented (in German!) disassembly of V1.89, if thats of any interest. It seems quite thorough and detailed, but Ive not tried to reassemble it. Let me know where to send it if you want it. Per On 25/02/2018 15:51, Martyn Hill via Ql-Users wrote: Hi everyone! I'm looking to get a hold of the *source *for either of *Minerva v1.92 *or *v1.89*. We have v1.98 source available, which I have poured over for /many /an hour... <> ___ QL-Users Mailing List
[Ql-Users] Source code availability for Minerva v1.92 or v1.89?
Hi everyone! I'm looking to get a hold of the *source *for either of *Minerva v1.92 *or *v1.89*. We have v1.98 source available, which I have poured over for /many /an hour... Is anyone able to contact the QView team to ask, or else has a copy to hand of either version of source code and has permission to release to a enthusiastic tester? Whilst I can continue using Min v1.92 +TK2 with full & reliable networking, my aim is to run the latest Minerva**available - possibly after hacking v1.98 or TK2 to restore /full /QLNet compatibility**between them**- see below.* * *Context:* In my on-going exploration and testing of the network on the BBQL, I discovered an apparent incompatibility between Minerva v1.97 and 1.98 whenever TK2 (any version) is loaded when it comes to using LBYTES specifically. Other uses of the NET driver work as more-or-less as expected (OPEN, LOAD, SBYTES, etc), albeit with some additional latency sometimes observed. I posted a thread on the forum a while back but, at that time, I had reservations about the hardware state of my own 2x QL motherboards (an Iss7 and an Iss5 - both 'hacked' quite a bit.) Since then, I have tested with other QL motherboards (Iss6 and another Iss5 - no hacks) and made adjustments to the TK2 code to validate and now have a degree of confidence that there really is something odd with Minerva + TK2 /after /Minerva v1.92. Specifically, when receiving via LBYTES (and SBYTES at the remote end), Minerva 1.97+ on its own receives perfectly, but once the NET driver is effectively replaced with TK2 (upto v2.23), issuing LBYTES will completely hang the /receiving /QL - immediately and regardless of whether the sending end has even started. It doesn't seem to make a jot of difference what is running at the /sending/ end - nor which issue of motherboard are at either end... ROM (Rx) w/o TK2 with TK2 - --- JS and MG OK OK Min v1.89 OK OK Min v1.92 OK OK Min v1.97 OK Hangs on LBYTES Min v1.98 OK Hangs on LBYTES (I don't know how well that table will render...) I have already hacked the TK2 (v2.23) NET driver source to allow both the Minerva NET and the TK2 NET driver (renamed to 'TNT') to co-exist, and also to allow both Minerva's LBYTES and TK2's equivalent procedure (again, renamed.) When using the Minerva NET driver, but still with TK2 loaded, normal service resumes. The moment LBYTES is issued (again on Min v1.97/1.98) but against the renamed 'TNT' driver, the receiver hangs again. As one might expect from the above, Minerva v1.92 and 1.89 execute LBYTES perfectly well using /either /NET or the TNT variant. I suspect some combination of register or stack usage/dependencies that are no longer as TK2 expects /after /Min v1.92, but after literally man-days of cross comparing the various source codes available, I can't nail it down and its bugging me :-) What I am missing is a decent disassembly of one of the 'working' Minerva versions, or better still, the source. Hence my request. If I can't lay my hands on the source, I'll resort to running DEA or IDIS against the Minerva v1.98 ROM, but that's tedious as hell :-) Any takers? Regards, *Martyn Hill.* -- "There are 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary and those who don't." ___ QL-Users Mailing List
