Re: [Ql-Users] Merry Christmas with SMSQ/E

[Jan Bredenbeek via Ql-Users]

Hi Norman,

On 31 December 2017 at 19:43, Norman Dunbar via Ql-Users <
ql-users@lists.q-v-d.com> wrote:

> Happy New Year one and all.
>
> I started pcb design a while back too. I use Fritzing and/or Kicad for
> mine. Manually routing a pcb can seriously use up a good few hours of your
> life! But it's [still] fun.
>
> I will probably live to regret this but, let me know how/where to get the
> DISA source and I  will take a look and try to understand it. I must say in
> advance that time, as ever, is probably limited as my wife and I are in the
> middle of dealing with a severe case of dementia affecting my mother in
> law. This, as you can imagine, is a bit of a time killer, and the worst of
> it is, she'll never get better.
>

I'm sorry to read this. Well we've come a long way already commenting
MultiMon so DISA would be a nice GitHub project to do next ;)

Best wishes for 2018,

Jan.

-- 
*Jan Bredenbeek* | Hilversum, NL | j...@bredenbeek.net
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Re: [Ql-Users] Merry Christmas with SMSQ/E

[Norman Dunbar via Ql-Users]

Happy New Year one and all.

I started pcb design a while back too. I use Fritzing and/or Kicad for mine. 
Manually routing a pcb can seriously use up a good few hours of your life! But 
it's [still] fun.

I will probably live to regret this but, let me know how/where to get the DISA 
source and I  will take a look and try to understand it. I must say in advance 
that time, as ever, is probably limited as my wife and I are in the middle of 
dealing with a severe case of dementia affecting my mother in law. This, as you 
can imagine, is a bit of a time killer, and the worst of it is, she'll never 
get better.

I lost my own mother 2 years ago to the same horror, and my dad was recently 
diagnosed with it too. Still, look on the bright side, it's not hereditory!

As mentioned above, all the best for 2018, and thanks for all the help, and fun 
this past year.


Cheers,
Norm.
-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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Re: [Ql-Users] Merry Christmas with SMSQ/E

[pjwitte via Ql-Users]

On 30/12/2017 16:10, Marcel Kilgus via Ql-Users wrote:

pjwitte via Ql-Users wrote:

Thanks, Marcel. Yes, I thought you might enjoy this little holiday
from "industrial" programming ;)

Oh well, I'm already swamped with non-industrial work, I have so many
ideas and projects on what to do that I hardly ever manage to finish
anything :-( I even started designing PCBs for fun and probably no profit.

Well, thats how the really Big Ideas are sometimes born :)

BTW, no criticism was ever intended of the creators of either SMSQ/E
or DISA!

Ah yes, DISA indeed still has some bugs, I occasionaly stumple upon
them, too. It might even be that I introduced some more in 3.05, I
don't know, but DISA is strictly "end of life" for me. The source code
(all assembler) is very complicated, life's too short to trying to
understand it. But if anybody REALLY wants to invest a few days or
even weeks of ones life to improve it, contact me...

Thanks for the warning. I pass ;)

Per
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Re: [Ql-Users] Merry Christmas with SMSQ/E

[Marcel Kilgus via Ql-Users]

pjwitte via Ql-Users wrote:
> Thanks, Marcel. Yes, I thought you might enjoy this little holiday 
> from "industrial" programming ;)

Oh well, I'm already swamped with non-industrial work, I have so many
ideas and projects on what to do that I hardly ever manage to finish
anything :-( I even started designing PCBs for fun and probably no profit.

> BTW, no criticism was ever intended of the creators of either SMSQ/E 
> or DISA!

Ah yes, DISA indeed still has some bugs, I occasionaly stumple upon
them, too. It might even be that I introduced some more in 3.05, I
don't know, but DISA is strictly "end of life" for me. The source code
(all assembler) is very complicated, life's too short to trying to
understand it. But if anybody REALLY wants to invest a few days or
even weeks of ones life to improve it, contact me...

Cheers, Marcel

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Re: [Ql-Users] Merry Christmas with SMSQ/E

[pjwitte via Ql-Users]

Thanks, Marcel. Yes, I thought you might enjoy this little holiday 
from "industrial" programming ;)


BTW, no criticism was ever intended of the creators of either SMSQ/E 
or DISA! Bugs are a fact of life, and not even Nature is imune (My 
brain is full of them, for starters - and thats not the inter-festive 
DT's talking!) The deeply philosophical line 5 (in the light of line 
4) in the first code sample, is for anyone to ponder in the New Year - 
for which I wish y'all a happy one!..


Per
On 30/12/2017 13:39, Marcel Kilgus via Ql-Users wrote:

pjwitte via Ql-Users wrote:

If you want a really miserable Christmas, you could try the following
- without saving your work first:

1 x% = 32000
2 y% = x%
3 z% = 1600
4 t  = x% * y% * z%: REMark Kabm!!!
5 PRINT "-- Im dead!"

Nice find and, as usual, good repro, thanks. As good as TT's code
usually is, here he has used too many "magic numbers" instead of
speaking EQU symbols and promptly used the wrong number (6 instead of
8) when calculating a code offset. I will send Wolgang the fix for the
next release.

What's happening:

1. "x% * y%" is "int16 * int16" and results in an "int32"
2. Then z% in "* z%" is promoted to "int32" so the operation is "int32 * int32"
3. It checks if the result will overflow, which it will in this case,
so the operands are converted to "float" and it retries again using the
"float * float" code path
4. But the code to retry jumps back into the "int32 * int32" path instead
of the "float * float" path and hilarity ensues. This path has never
worked since the dawn of SBasic :-o


The above crashes SMSQ/E 3.32 on QPC2 and SMSQmulator! Even the
four-finger reset wont work. The following is, as youd expect, fine:

1 x% = 32000
2 y% = x%
3 z% = 1600
4 t  = x% * y%
5 t  = t * z%
6 PRINT "Yippi! - Im still alive!"

"t" is float in this case, so "t * z%" is "float * int16". In this
case z% is promoted into a float, so the operation is "float * float"
from the start and everything is happy.

Marcel

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Re: [Ql-Users] Merry Christmas with SMSQ/E

[Marcel Kilgus via Ql-Users]

pjwitte via Ql-Users wrote:
> If you want a really miserable Christmas, you could try the following 
> - without saving your work first:
>
> 1 x% = 32000
> 2 y% = x%
> 3 z% = 1600
> 4 t  = x% * y% * z%: REMark Kabm!!!
> 5 PRINT "-- Im dead!"

Nice find and, as usual, good repro, thanks. As good as TT's code
usually is, here he has used too many "magic numbers" instead of
speaking EQU symbols and promptly used the wrong number (6 instead of
8) when calculating a code offset. I will send Wolgang the fix for the
next release.

What's happening:

1. "x% * y%" is "int16 * int16" and results in an "int32"
2. Then z% in "* z%" is promoted to "int32" so the operation is "int32 * int32"
3. It checks if the result will overflow, which it will in this case,
   so the operands are converted to "float" and it retries again using the
   "float * float" code path
4. But the code to retry jumps back into the "int32 * int32" path instead
   of the "float * float" path and hilarity ensues. This path has never
   worked since the dawn of SBasic :-o

> The above crashes SMSQ/E 3.32 on QPC2 and SMSQmulator! Even the
> four-finger reset wont work. The following is, as youd expect, fine:
>
> 1 x% = 32000
> 2 y% = x%
> 3 z% = 1600
> 4 t  = x% * y%
> 5 t  = t * z%
> 6 PRINT "Yippi! - Im still alive!"

"t" is float in this case, so "t * z%" is "float * int16". In this
case z% is promoted into a float, so the operation is "float * float"
from the start and everything is happy.

Marcel

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Re: [Ql-Users] Merry Christmas with SMSQ/E

[Wolf via Ql-Users]

Hi,

yes, that part of SMSQ/e probably hasn't been touched for ages.

Wolfgang


On 28/12/2017 13:44, Bob Spelten via Ql-Users wrote:
Op Thu, 28 Dec 2017 07:43:13 +0100 schreef Wolf via Ql-Users 
:



Hi,
yes that's a bug.
Somehow the return stack gets confused/overwitten (stack overflow!), 
causing a jump to a strange address where you then will get an illegal 
instruction error.
I've checcked that, under SMSQmulator this isn't due to the replacemnt 
FP routines, which it isn't.



It looks like it's an old bug.
On my SGC/AUR (SMSQ/E v3.26) the Kaboom is modest.
No error is reported, it just freezes after one howl from Sysmon.
No keyboard or mouse response anymore.

Bob


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Re: [Ql-Users] Merry Christmas with SMSQ/E

[Bob Spelten via Ql-Users]

Op Thu, 28 Dec 2017 07:43:13 +0100 schreef Wolf via Ql-Users  
:



Hi,
yes that's a bug.
Somehow the return stack gets confused/overwitten (stack overflow!),  
causing a jump to a strange address where you then will get an illegal  
instruction error.
I've checcked that, under SMSQmulator this isn't due to the replacemnt  
FP routines, which it isn't.



It looks like it's an old bug.
On my SGC/AUR (SMSQ/E v3.26) the Kaboom is modest.
No error is reported, it just freezes after one howl from Sysmon.
No keyboard or mouse response anymore.

Bob

--
The BSJR QL software site at: "http://members.upc.nl/b.spelten/ql/;
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Re: [Ql-Users] Merry Christmas with SMSQ/E

[Wolf via Ql-Users]

Yup,
hence my original message...

Wolfgang

On 28/12/2017 13:16, Jan Bredenbeek via Ql-Users wrote:

On 28 December 2017 at 13:10, Wolf via Ql-Users 
wrote:


Hi,

ok,  ok, but I didn't even use the word "odd"!



:)

In any case, if you jump to an odd location (whether strange or not even)
on a QL you will usually be in big trouble...

Jan.


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Re: [Ql-Users] Merry Christmas with SMSQ/E

[Jan Bredenbeek via Ql-Users]

On 28 December 2017 at 13:10, Wolf via Ql-Users 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> ok,  ok, but I didn't even use the word "odd"!
>

:)

In any case, if you jump to an odd location (whether strange or not even)
on a QL you will usually be in big trouble...

Jan.

-- 
*Jan Bredenbeek* | Hilversum, NL | j...@bredenbeek.net
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Re: [Ql-Users] Merry Christmas with SMSQ/E

[Wolf via Ql-Users]

Hi,

ok,  ok, but I didn't even use the word "odd"!

Wolfgang

On 28/12/2017 13:03, Jan Bredenbeek via Ql-Users wrote:

On 28 December 2017 at 12:59, Wolf via Ql-Users 
wrote:



Hi,

To my mind, a "jump to a strange address" is not an address error which
would give rise to that exception.



He he that's a language thing :). 'Odd' in English can mean 'strange' but
also 'not even'. What I meant was the latter of the two so it really should
have been an address error...

Jan.


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Re: [Ql-Users] Merry Christmas with SMSQ/E

[Jan Bredenbeek via Ql-Users]

On 28 December 2017 at 12:59, Wolf via Ql-Users 
wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
> To my mind, a "jump to a strange address" is not an address error which
> would give rise to that exception.


He he that's a language thing :). 'Odd' in English can mean 'strange' but
also 'not even'. What I meant was the latter of the two so it really should
have been an address error...

Jan.

-- 
*Jan Bredenbeek* | Hilversum, NL | j...@bredenbeek.net
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Re: [Ql-Users] Merry Christmas with SMSQ/E

[Wolf via Ql-Users]

Hi,

To my mind, a "jump to a strange address" is not an address error which 
would give rise to that exception.


Wolfgang

On 28/12/2017 12:32, Jan Bredenbeek via Ql-Users wrote:

On 28 December 2017 at 07:43, Wolf via Ql-Users 
wrote:


Hi,
yes that's a bug.

Somehow the return stack gets confused/overwitten (stack overflow!),
causing a jump to a strange address where you then will get an illegal
instruction error.


I've checcked that, under SMSQmulator this isn't due to the replacemnt FP
routines, which it isn't.

On the Q68 it also freezes, but other jobs keep running (probably with

corrupted OS).
It looks like the processor in the Q68 behaves somewhat differently, as I'm
unable to get an address error exception even when jumping to an odd
address...

Jan.
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Re: [Ql-Users] Merry Christmas with SMSQ/E

[Jan Bredenbeek via Ql-Users]

On 28 December 2017 at 07:43, Wolf via Ql-Users 
wrote:

> Hi,
> yes that's a bug.
>
> Somehow the return stack gets confused/overwitten (stack overflow!),
> causing a jump to a strange address where you then will get an illegal
> instruction error.
>
>
> I've checcked that, under SMSQmulator this isn't due to the replacemnt FP
> routines, which it isn't.
>
> On the Q68 it also freezes, but other jobs keep running (probably with
corrupted OS).
It looks like the processor in the Q68 behaves somewhat differently, as I'm
unable to get an address error exception even when jumping to an odd
address...

Jan.
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Re: [Ql-Users] Merry Christmas with SMSQ/E

[Wolf via Ql-Users]

Hi,
yes that's a bug.

Somehow the return stack gets confused/overwitten (stack overflow!), 
causing a jump to a strange address where you then will get an illegal 
instruction error.



I've checcked that, under SMSQmulator this isn't due to the replacemnt 
FP routines, which it isn't.


Wolfgang


On 26/12/2017 18:31, pjwitte via Ql-Users wrote:
If you want a really miserable Christmas, you could try the following - 
without saving your work first:


1 x% = 32000
2 y% = x%
3 z% = 1600
4 t  = x% * y% * z%: REMark Kabm!!!
5 PRINT "-- Im dead!"

The above crashes SMSQ/E 3.32 on QPC2 and SMSQmulator! Even the 
four-finger reset wont work. The following is, as youd expect, fine:


1 x% = 32000
2 y% = x%
3 z% = 1600
4 t  = x% * y%
5 t  = t * z%
6 PRINT "Yippi! - Im still alive!"

Per
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Re: [Ql-Users] Merry Christmas with SMSQ/E

[Tobias Fröschle via Ql-Users]

Doesn't crash here

but ends up in QMon signalling an Address error ;)

Tobias

> Am 27.12.2017 um 17:20 schrieb François Van Emelen via Ql-Users 
> :
> 
> Op 26/12/2017 om 18:31 schreef pjwitte via Ql-Users:
>> If you want a really miserable Christmas, you could try the following - 
>> without saving your work first:
>> 
>> 1 x% = 32000
>> 2 y% = x%
>> 3 z% = 1600
>> 4 t  = x% * y% * z%: REMark Kabm!!!
>> 5 PRINT "-- Im dead!"
>> 
>> The above crashes SMSQ/E 3.32 on QPC2 and SMSQmulator! Even the four-finger 
>> reset wont work. The following is, as youd expect, fine:
>> 
>> 1 x% = 32000
>> 2 y% = x%
>> 3 z% = 1600
>> 4 t  = x% * y%
>> 5 t  = t * z%
>> 6 PRINT "Yippi! - Im still alive!"
>> 
>> Per
>> ___
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> 
> Hi,
> 
> Same here.
> 
> 1) QPC2: screen fills with light brown colour up to bottom half of the screen 
> then QPC2 locks
> 
> 2) SMSQMumator:  locks immediately.
> 
> François Van Emelen
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> QL-Users Mailing List

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Re: [Ql-Users] Merry Christmas with SMSQ/E

[François Van Emelen via Ql-Users]

Op 26/12/2017 om 18:31 schreef pjwitte via Ql-Users:
If you want a really miserable Christmas, you could try the following 
- without saving your work first:


1 x% = 32000
2 y% = x%
3 z% = 1600
4 t  = x% * y% * z%: REMark Kabm!!!
5 PRINT "-- Im dead!"

The above crashes SMSQ/E 3.32 on QPC2 and SMSQmulator! Even the 
four-finger reset wont work. The following is, as youd expect, fine:


1 x% = 32000
2 y% = x%
3 z% = 1600
4 t  = x% * y%
5 t  = t * z%
6 PRINT "Yippi! - Im still alive!"

Per
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Hi,

Same here.

1) QPC2: screen fills with light brown colour up to bottom half of the 
screen then QPC2 locks


2) SMSQMumator:  locks immediately.

François Van Emelen



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Re: [Ql-Users] Merry Christmas

[Sjef van de Molengraaf via Ql-Users]

On 25 Dec 2017 at 12:38, François Van Emelen via Ql- wrote:

> Op 24/12/2017 om 18:52 schreef simon629--- via Ql-Users:
> > I hope you all have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year From 
> > simon629Simon Foster
> > ___
> > QL-Users Mailing List
> >
> >
> A very happy Christmas and a happy new year to everybody.
> 
> François Van Emelen


The same also on my behalf. 

Regards 

Sjef van de Molengraaf




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Re: [Ql-Users] Merry Christmas

[Sjef van de Molengraaf via Ql-Users]

On 25 Dec 2017 at 12:38, François Van Emelen via Ql-Users wrote:

> Op 24/12/2017 om 18:52 schreef simon629--- via Ql-Users:
> > I hope you all have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year From 
> > simon629Simon Foster
> > ___
> > QL-Users Mailing List
> >
> >
> A very happy Christmas and a happy new year to everybody.
> 
> François Van Emelen


The same also on my behalf.

Regards

Sjef van de Molengraaf


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Re: [Ql-Users] Merry Christmas

[François Van Emelen via Ql-Users]

Op 24/12/2017 om 18:52 schreef simon629--- via Ql-Users:

I hope you all have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year From simon629Simon 
Foster
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A very happy Christmas and a happy new year to everybody.

François Van Emelen


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Re: [Ql-Users] Merry Christmas

[Billy]

On 23/12/2010 23:33, Derek Stewart wrote:

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you all.


And seasons greetings to you too Derek

All the best - Bill

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http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm