Re: [ql-users] there must be a fashion lable...
another amazing design aspect: the shape of the QL keys. Although it does not feel very good typing on a QL's keyboard (I know at Sinclair they had to design hardware economically rather than ergonomically...) it is of acceptable quality ... The shape of the the keys is unique ... well, almost unique: In the early times of IBM compatible PCs the german manufacturer Siemens produced Computer with a fairly distinct keyboard design (compared to the bulk of IBM compatibles). Very similiar to QL (or spectrum+) keyboards. Yes indeed, except the siemens ones are white :-)) The question is: did Siemens steal the Sincair key design or was it just the other way around... or did both parties have the same idea accidentally. Probably it is impossible to tell the truth about that after all those years. I don't know, but a good question. AFAIK the distinct Siemens keybords are not being produced anymore. Today the PC branch of Siemens is Fujitsu-Siemens, and they just sell the same mess as other PC manufacturers. No, they are still produced - at least up until very recently anyway. I know because Siemens where the main supplier for the Bank of Ireland, until a recent deal with HP was signed. I am using one of those keyboards right now :-)) and it is definitely not more than 6 months old. They where originally branded siemens nixdorf, now just siemens appears on them, but the design hasn't changed - they've had these in the bank since I joined in 1997. Cheers, Darren. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify us immediately at [EMAIL PROTECTED] and delete this E-mail from your system. Thank you. It is possible for data transmitted by email to be deliberately or accidentally corrupted or intercepted. For this reason, where the communication is by email, the Bank of Ireland Group does not accept any responsibility for any breach of confidence which may arise through the use of this medium. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of known computer viruses. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] there must be a fashion lable...
On Fri, 6 Aug 2004 at 16:35:52, Dave P wrote: (ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) On Fri, 6 Aug 2004, Michael Berger wrote: The question is: did Siemens steal the Sincair key design or was it just the other way around... or did both parties have the same idea accidentally. Probably it is impossible to tell the truth about that after all those years. I don't know, but I do know that at school in 1980-1984 I regularly used a teletype terminal of a modern design (ie dot matrix) that had this exact style of key - not just the key tops but the bubble mat and membrane were of the same construction with a different layout. I know this because some enthusiastic fellow pupil thought it would make the printer quieter if it were oiled. I took it upon myself to strip the unit down to remove all the oil before the print mechanism siezed. I have, though, used WD40 to successfully resurrect my 1986 Brother print head. The bottom row of mainly unused pins seized. I am looking for an old teletype now, as it happens. It would be a very fun way to do the opening credits for my short movie about a bank :) I started earlier than dot-matrix. I used some IBM golfball terminals as printers - well I only managed to get one working! This was slightly pre-QL, on a UK 101. Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 tony@surname.co.uk http://www.firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] there must be a fashion lable...
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Michael Berger [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 10:17 AM Subject: Re: [ql-users] there must be a fashion lable... If yes it should (besides the hardware/software aspect) definitely also give some credit to the creator of the QL design. It is still amazing for me when I put a QL and SONY's PS2 together on a table - from a design aspect they fit perfectly as if they were from the same collection. Actually, very true. My 9 year old has a PS2, and yes - it is very similar to the QL. another amazing design aspect: the shape of the QL keys. Although it does not feel very good typing on a QL's keyboard (I know at Sinclair they had to design hardware economically rather than ergonomically...) it is of acceptable quality ... The shape of the the keys is unique ... well, almost unique: In the early times of IBM compatible PCs the german manufacturer Siemens produced Computer with a fairly distinct keyboard design (compared to the bulk of IBM compatibles). Very similiar to QL (or spectrum+) keyboards. The question is: did Siemens steal the Sincair key design or was it just the other way around... or did both parties have the same idea accidentally. Probably it is impossible to tell the truth about that after all those years. AFAIK the distinct Siemens keybords are not being produced anymore. Today the PC branch of Siemens is Fujitsu-Siemens, and they just sell the same mess as other PC manufacturers. The keyboard used on the QL was a step up from the ZX81 - touch membrane - and the Spectrum - rubber with membrane. The keyboard came from a range of a specialist manufacturer, as I remember seeing their catalogue at the time. Although I have forgotten the name of the manufacturer. The Sinclair version was a 'custom' design of the type which has low height moveable keys which press on to a membrane. A lower cost per unit than other moving key specifications then available. Owing to the market that Sinclair was aiming at, cost was always a critical part of the design make-up. You have to remember, also, that Sinclair was only a relatively small company. Which didn't have any development resources of its own. Everything was outsourced. The QL was manufactured in Scotland, at the Timex plant. In terms of assembly line production. Although, the injection moulded casing may have been produced elsewhere in England. -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] there must be a fashion lable...
Hi these days I was surprised two times because colleagues at work (not only men!) apparently weared a QL lable on their shirt ... there must be a fashion lable with a logo that looks very similiar to the QL's start screen... Yes there is - Tommy Hilfiger. I have such a t-shirt myself. Dilwyn Jones was also saying the same thing about some of the staff where he works to me just last week. Oh and btw I got aware of the fact that it is probably very unfair to name the QL Sinclair's black box ... as I did before ... I guess in 1984 Clive was the frontman of Sinclair research as it goes for publicity but I doubt if he really was the brain behind the QL project? Well, people like Tony Tebby would certainly have had a lot more to do with it than Clive. Is there an official hall of fame for the creators of the QL on the web? Dilwyn has a good synopsis of the men behind the QL on his website. If yes it should (besides the hardware/software aspect) definitely also give some credit to the creator of the QL design. It is still amazing for me when I put a QL and SONY's PS2 together on a table - from a design aspect they fit perfectly as if they were from the same collection. Actually, very true. My 9 year old has a PS2, and yes - it is very similar to the QL. Totally confused from today's experiences... :-)) Michael Darren. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify us immediately at [EMAIL PROTECTED] and delete this E-mail from your system. Thank you. It is possible for data transmitted by email to be deliberately or accidentally corrupted or intercepted. For this reason, where the communication is by email, the Bank of Ireland Group does not accept any responsibility for any breach of confidence which may arise through the use of this medium. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of known computer viruses. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] there must be a fashion lable...
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 10:17 AM Subject: Re: [ql-users] there must be a fashion lable... If yes it should (besides the hardware/software aspect) definitely also give some credit to the creator of the QL design. It is still amazing for me when I put a QL and SONY's PS2 together on a table - from a design aspect they fit perfectly as if they were from the same collection. Actually, very true. My 9 year old has a PS2, and yes - it is very similar to the QL. another amazing design aspect: the shape of the QL keys. Although it does not feel very good typing on a QL's keyboard (I know at Sinclair they had to design hardware economically rather than ergonomically...) it is of acceptable quality ... The shape of the the keys is unique ... well, almost unique: In the early times of IBM compatible PCs the german manufacturer Siemens produced Computer with a fairly distinct keyboard design (compared to the bulk of IBM compatibles). Very similiar to QL (or spectrum+) keyboards. The question is: did Siemens steal the Sincair key design or was it just the other way around... or did both parties have the same idea accidentally. Probably it is impossible to tell the truth about that after all those years. AFAIK the distinct Siemens keybords are not being produced anymore. Today the PC branch of Siemens is Fujitsu-Siemens, and they just sell the same mess as other PC manufacturers. Cheers! Michael ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] there must be a fashion lable...
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Michael Berger [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes these days I was surprised two times because colleagues at work (not only men!) apparently weared a QL lable on their shirt ... there must be a fashion lable with a logo that looks very similiar to the QL's start screen... Oh and btw I got aware of the fact that it is probably very unfair to name the QL Sinclair's black box ... as I did before ... I guess in 1984 Clive was the frontman of Sinclair research as it goes for publicity but I doubt if he really was the brain behind the QL project? Is there an official hall of fame for the creators of the QL on the web? If yes it should (besides the hardware/software aspect) definitely also give some credit to the creator of the QL design. It is still amazing for me when I put a QL and SONY's PS2 together on a table - from a design aspect they fit perfectly as if they were from the same collection. The industrial design for the QL was done by an 'in house' designer - Rick Dickinson - who trained at Newcastle University. Sinclair Research was his first design job - he did the ZX81 and the Spectrum, prior to the QL. As I teach design, I got to know Rick very well through admiring the industrial design work he was then doing for Sinclair. He was helpful with some of my students who did a project on a personal computer - which was at the time when the Spectrum was being conceived. Rick also did the Sinclair B+W Pocket TV. The methodology of the design was always around the arrangement of the basic components and features, hence everything was small, compact and neat ... and always black :-) ... and it had to be produced for very low cost to sell at a low market price. The designs still look modern ... hence your comparison with more recent Sony products. Rick also designed the Amstrad 640 Portable PC, with a folding flat screen. One of the first available portables, or 'luggables', at the time. If the technology that we have now for flat LCD screens, big hard drives, etc, were to be available to a 21st century Sinclair Research ... then we would have some innovative designs to tempt us all again :-) ... and be the cheapest, innovative, small sized, etc, around. Yet, gone are the days when computers were designed and made in the UK.. In fact, apart from Apple, there is very little innovation in computer design. As most are still stuck with the 3 box thinking of Computer, Screen and Keyboard, that has made the PC dominant in the market. I often think that the QL was almost there as a portable, with the computer and keyboard being the same unit. By the way, an outside designer was brought in for the C5 project. -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
