Re: Vintage Macs, Vintage Printers - only a little OT

[Dean Arthur]

I've found SW Color Pro, SW 1200, SW I & II, H-P Deskjets [of various
numbers] and a few Epsons with Mac serial connectors and have gotten
them to work with first my tried-and-true LC-475 [36 MB/1MB VRAM/2.1 GB
HD/56K Supra Express modem] then its follower the Quadra 650 and finally
my linked Performa 6400/Power Mac 5400 units. I've kept every printer
driver I've found or downloaded from whatever source derived. Go driver
hunting.

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Re: Vintage Macs, Vintage Printers - only a little OT

[Erik]

> >  > a DeskWriter 560C, a DeskWriter 660C, and an old StyleWriter B&W.
The
> >660C I
> >>  am currently using at home I got with a P635 about 3 years ago, and I
> >>  really don't like it much.
> >
> >I have a DeskJet 660C, is this just a coincidence or do the two printers
> >have something in common, most likely a serial hookup as mine has only
> >parallel.

> Generally a DeskJet and DeskWriter of the same number are the same
> printer but the DJ has parallel and the DW has serial/LocalTalk.
> DeskJet 85X series printers have both.

Yep. I found that out when I was given a DeskJet 697C to service a couple of
months ago. I popped the back off, and I even saw solder pads for the
serial/localtalk port and its related circuitry.

Erik


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Re: Vintage Macs, Vintage Printers

[Erik]

> At the risk of jinxing one of my greatest dumpter dives, I pulled a
> Personal Laser Writer 300 from a pallet bound for the trash heap, and
> was simply thrilled when it even worked -- and that was a couple of
> years ago. I have printed reams of text documents on it without a hitch.
> I searched and searched for a command or start-up switch to let me know
> how many pages had already been printed, but never could find any info,

All you have to do is download the Apple Printer Utility or Apple
LaserWriter Utility (I forget which one) and turn on the start-up page.

> so I just decided I'd use it 'til it quit. Faster, quieter than old
> inkjets, good text and no smudges or sloppy lines. Low memory, so some


Erik - 


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Re: Vintage Macs, Vintage Printers - only a little OT

[Clark Martin]

At 11:16 AM -0400 7/18/02, Josh B wrote:
>  > a DeskWriter 560C, a DeskWriter 660C, and an old StyleWriter B&W.  The
>660C I
>>  am currently using at home I got with a P635 about 3 years ago, and I
>>  really don't like it much.
>
>I have a DeskJet 660C, is this just a coincidence or do the two printers
>have something in common, most likely a serial hookup as mine has only
>parallel.


Generally a DeskJet and DeskWriter of the same number are the same 
printer but the DJ has parallel and the DW has serial/LocalTalk. 
DeskJet 85X series printers have both.


-- 
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Redwood City, CA, USA
Macintosh / Internet Consulting
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Vintage Macs, Vintage Printers - only a little OT

[Clark Martin]

At 9:53 AM -0500 7/18/02, Spiritus ex Machina wrote:
>I dunno about the economics there. My local Computer Renaissance wants
>$25 for a brand new, Canon-branded, BC-02 ink cartridge for my
>StyleWriter II ($25 through eBay) and my Canon BJ-200ex ($7.50 at a
>local thrift shop). When I went to replace the toner cartridge on my
>Lexmark Winriter 200, I was quoted $150 (the Winriter is gathering dust
>under one of my work tables).
>
>The idea that we can buy a whole new printer more cheaply than the ink
>or toner to refill an old one really gripes me. The last thing we (as an
>over-consuming society) need to do is populate landfills with once-used
>computer components.  :-(


The other point is, do you want to use a $25 printer.  My mother 
bought an iMac that included a Lexmark printer.  I've seen it sold 
for $75 or less.  It comes in three or four versions, the difference 
is in which if any of the black and color ink cartridges it includes. 
My moms came with black but not color.  Aside from that it's a pretty 
crappy printer.  I've got several HP DJ 85X printers and they have 
all been very solid.

I'd say spend the money on a new cartridge if it's a good printer.

>
>As Ken Daggett, over on the Compact Macs list says: "Use it up, wear it
>out, make it do, or do without."
>
>   Sp00ky
>
>Jim Arnott wrote:
>>  PLW.. Your greatest expense will be paper. Inkjets... everytime you buy
>>  ink, you pay the equivilent of a new printer. (Anecdote: A local PC shop
>>  tells their customers when they come looking for ink to go to WalMart
>  > and get a new printer. Saves the customer about $10.)

-- 
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Redwood City, CA, USA
Macintosh / Internet Consulting
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: why won't my Mac start?

[Ed Murphy]

--- the pickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 01:11 -0400 on 18/07/02, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> >OK I see what you mean there is a connector thing inbetween the
> cable and the
> >mac. It's got a bunch of little switches and a knob with a picture
> of the
> >liberty bell on it, got it at the Goodwill  to.
> 
> While our friend Jonas is sleeping, who wants to dig up the DIP
> switch
> settings for the Mac Liberty VGA adapter?
> 

On most Macs, the settings for a 21" monitor would be: dip switches 1-6
off, dip switches 7,8,9 on, and the wheel on 'P' for 1152x870@75hz or
'D' for 1024x768@75hz.  

If it attached to an AV video card (as on a 6100/7100/8100 AV), then
the settings for a 21" monitor are: dip switches 3,7,8,9 on and others
off and the wheel set to 'J'.  Hold down the option key while clicking
the options button in the monitors control panel to access all the
video modes.


=
-
Ed Murphy
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Vintage Macs, Vintage Printers

[Kevin Jones]

> Now just in the past few weeks I have seen a slew of cheap old Mac printers
> in thrift shops & pawn shops... Can someone take a few moments to expound on the
> relative merits of such printers as Personal LaserWriters (could have had
> one for $5 yesterday)

At the risk of jinxing one of my greatest dumpter dives, I pulled a
Personal Laser Writer 300 from a pallet bound for the trash heap, and
was simply thrilled when it even worked -- and that was a couple of
years ago. I have printed reams of text documents on it without a hitch.
I searched and searched for a command or start-up switch to let me know
how many pages had already been printed, but never could find any info,
so I just decided I'd use it 'til it quit. Faster, quieter than old
inkjets, good text and no smudges or sloppy lines. Low memory, so some
page layouts can be troublesome. Power-save shuts it down when not in
use -- I imagine mine has been plugged in and power-on for most of these
2 years. I wonder if it's possessed, or if I made a deal with the devil
that I don't recall. (Oh yeah, I refused to make a deal with the devil
-- that's why I have to dive for Apple stuff.)

jkj

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Re: Vintage Macs, Vintage Printers - only a little OT

[william ahearn]

>I would love to be able to service all my own gear. Apple provides
>detailed tear-down and reassembly documentation for its products; does
>anyone know if Canon does, too?
>

Of course it does. It has service techs, ergo it has manuals -- if 
that's what you mean. It's how to access those manuals and manuals 
from other OEMs as well that's the trick. Must be on an FTP somewhere 
. . .
-- 
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MacHeretics

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Re: Vintage Macs, Vintage Printers - only a little OT

[Spiritus ex Machina]

I would love to be able to service all my own gear. Apple provides 
detailed tear-down and reassembly documentation for its products; does 
anyone know if Canon does, too?

Sp00ky

byard pidgeon wrote:
> Right, the fuser and pickup parts are cheap, but unless the person is able
> to install the parts, the cost will go WAY up...and unless a person does
> this kind of take apart and put back together on a regular basis, it's
> pretty daunting the first time.
> 
> on 07/18/2002 05:06 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
>>If the laser printer is based upon a Canon marking engine, a fuser roller
>>will cost about $10 (less for a clone) and a pickup roller will cost about $6
>>(less for a clone).
>>
>>There's a reason why completely remanufactured fusers for CX and SX marking
>>engines can be had for $49 ... 99.44 percent of the parts are usable as-is,
>>or can very easily be remanufactured, and the remaining 0.66 percent don't
>>cost very much.

-- 
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   No matter how paranoid you are, it isn't paranoid enough.



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Re: Vintage Macs, Vintage Printers - only a little OT

[byard pidgeon]

Right, the fuser and pickup parts are cheap, but unless the person is able
to install the parts, the cost will go WAY up...and unless a person does
this kind of take apart and put back together on a regular basis, it's
pretty daunting the first time.

on 07/18/2002 05:06 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> 
> In a message dated 7/18/02 4:57:53 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> 
> <<
> ... A used laser printer is a great thing, if it works. If it needs a fuser
> (and eventually they all will) and/or a pickup roller, then at least in the
> short term it's not going to be cheap. But any used printer is a gamble, and
> I think the "throwaway" printer is an abomination.
>>> 
> 
> If the laser printer is based upon a Canon marking engine, a fuser roller
> will cost about $10 (less for a clone) and a pickup roller will cost about $6
> (less for a clone).
> 
> There's a reason why completely remanufactured fusers for CX and SX marking
> engines can be had for $49 ... 99.44 percent of the parts are usable as-is,
> or can very easily be remanufactured, and the remaining 0.66 percent don't
> cost very much.


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Re: Vintage Macs, Vintage Printers - only a little OT

[PeterH5322]

In a message dated 7/18/02 4:57:53 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<<
... A used laser printer is a great thing, if it works. If it needs a fuser 
(and eventually they all will) and/or a pickup roller, then at least in the 
short term it's not going to be cheap. But any used printer is a gamble, and 
I think the "throwaway" printer is an abomination.
>>

If the laser printer is based upon a Canon marking engine, a fuser roller 
will cost about $10 (less for a clone) and a pickup roller will cost about $6 
(less for a clone).

There's a reason why completely remanufactured fusers for CX and SX marking 
engines can be had for $49 ... 99.44 percent of the parts are usable as-is, 
or can very easily be remanufactured, and the remaining 0.66 percent don't 
cost very much.

The easiest printer to self-service is the Canon CX-based LW+; the cheapest 
printer to operate (on a total cost-per-page basis) is the Canon SX-based 
LW-II (NT or later variations).

A good, clean LW Pro 630 or 16/600 (Canon EX- or EX-II-based) is a great 
printer, and is my current all-time favorite.


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Re: Vintage Macs, Vintage Printers - only a little OT

[byard pidgeon]

Responding to the "used Laser printer vs. inkjet cartridges"
questions/statements.
A used laser printer is a great thing, if it works. If it needs a fuser (and
eventually they all will) and/or a pickup roller, then at least in the short
term it's not going to be cheap.
But any used printer is a gamble, and I think the "throwaway" printer is an
abomination.


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Re: Vintage Macs, Vintage Printers - only a little OT

[bell4349]

>Good topic, Bruce. I'm new to vitage Macs and vintage Apple printers, so 
>I'm looking for advice along those lines, too.
>
>Vintage Mac printers use a serial interface and most PC printers use a 
>parallel interface (although USB is becoming common). If the 'PC' 
>printer had a serial interface, I would suppose an appropriate serial 
>interface cable and printer driver could be produced, although there's 
>no certainty that they have been for any particular model printer. I 
>remember when we used to have to build custom serial cables for 
>PC-to-printer connections, based on the brand of PC and the brand of 
>printer. Standards can be a nice thing.
>
>I would suspect that even the level of OS release on your Mac would make 
>a difference as to which printer you can use. I picked up a Stylewriter 
>II that I have yet to get to work on any of my vintage Macs, ranging 
>from Mac Plus to LC-475, with OS from 7.x to 8.x. The printer self-tests 
>fine, but doesn't respond to the printer - various error messages 
>appear, depending upon which system I use. Some day I'll find the right 
>combination of system, OS, and cable that will let me use it.
>
>Fellow at my local Computer Renaissance says that the Canon bubble-jet 
>printers have the same engine as the StyleWriters; only the interface 
>circuitry is different. In fact, Canon actually was the manufacturer of 
>the StyleWriters.
>
>   Sp00ky
>
>[...snip...]
>> Now just in the past few weeks I have seen a slew of cheap old Mac printers
>> in thrift shops & pawn shops, and wonder if it's time to move on.  But I'm
>> so printer inexperienced! Can someone take a few moments to expound on the
>> relative merits of such printers as Personal LaserWriters (could have had
>> one for $5 yesterday), Color Stylewriters, old Canons and Epsons, etc. etc.
>> Also, this may sound ignorant but I'm confused about whether a PC printer
>> such as DeskJet or Canon can be hooked up to a Mac provided you have the
>> correct cable and drivers, or are printers strictly Mac or PC?
>> 
>> Bruce (in Orlando)
>
>-- 
>   Spiritus ex Machina
>   No matter how paranoid you are, it isn't paranoid enough.
>
>
>
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>
I also have a StyleWriter II printer which I got along with an LC 630, 
advertised as "free to a good home" in a local Safeways supermarket. The 
LC 630 now has a logic board from a Performa 5260 (left over from another 
upgrade project) and is happily running OS 8.1. I just use the 
StyleWriter 1200 chooser extension and the printer works just fine. I 
always make sure that the printer is turned on before trying to print and 
have no problems at all. The connection is via the bog standard serial 
cable.

David

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Re: Tape Drives

[Ian Moffatt]

> You need something like Retrospect to use the tape drive.

That's the problem, Retrospect tells me that the tape drive has no driver
> They aren't like
> other storage media - they're more for archival purposes than anything
> else, and most apps can't see them or do anything with them.
>
Nor will Retrospect

I'll go and have another RTFM!

Ian
--
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Re: Tape Drives

[the pickle]

At 09:16 +0200 on 18/07/02, Ian Moffatt wrote:

>I have the Q950 working and networked. On my iMac I can see the 3 HD's in
>it and any SCSI device attached EXCEPT the built in tape drive. The drive

You need something like Retrospect to use the tape drive.  They aren't like
other storage media - they're more for archival purposes than anything
else, and most apps can't see them or do anything with them.

the pickle

FAQ 

Software Archive


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Vintage Printers

[Jim Lunceford]

We have several Macs ranging from, SE 30 to G3. We've been using
..Epson printers, 600, 640, 700, 740, 860 and 880, all but the 860 & 880

..are serial port. We put a USB card in the G3 so we could use the later

..ones on it.
The point being, we've been using new after market ink cartridges
for
..about 5 years now at a cost of between $6.00 & $10.00 each, with no
..proplems or noticable lack of quality.
We've had a couple of them serviced different times, at a cost of
about
..$30.00 plus parts but we still have all of them and all of them still
work
..well we bounce them around, depending on which toy we want to play
..with.
I'm no expert but thy have been very reliable and very economical
for
..me.

Good Luck

Jim Lunceford


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Re: Vintage Macs, Vintage Printers - only a little OT

[Josh B]

> a DeskWriter 560C, a DeskWriter 660C, and an old StyleWriter B&W.  The
660C I
> am currently using at home I got with a P635 about 3 years ago, and I
> really don't like it much.

I have a DeskJet 660C, is this just a coincidence or do the two printers
have something in common, most likely a serial hookup as mine has only
parallel.

Thanks,
Josh



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Re: Vintage Macs, Vintage Printers - only a little OT

[Spiritus ex Machina]

I dunno about the economics there. My local Computer Renaissance wants 
$25 for a brand new, Canon-branded, BC-02 ink cartridge for my 
StyleWriter II ($25 through eBay) and my Canon BJ-200ex ($7.50 at a 
local thrift shop). When I went to replace the toner cartridge on my 
Lexmark Winriter 200, I was quoted $150 (the Winriter is gathering dust 
under one of my work tables).

The idea that we can buy a whole new printer more cheaply than the ink 
or toner to refill an old one really gripes me. The last thing we (as an 
over-consuming society) need to do is populate landfills with once-used 
computer components.  :-(

As Ken Daggett, over on the Compact Macs list says: "Use it up, wear it 
out, make it do, or do without."

Sp00ky

Jim Arnott wrote:
> PLW.. Your greatest expense will be paper. Inkjets... everytime you buy 
> ink, you pay the equivilent of a new printer. (Anecdote: A local PC shop 
> tells their customers when they come looking for ink to go to WalMart 
> and get a new printer. Saves the customer about $10.)
> 
> Go back and get that laser.
> 
> Jim
> 

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Re: Vintage Macs, Vintage Printers - only a little OT

[Spiritus ex Machina]

Good topic, Bruce. I'm new to vitage Macs and vintage Apple printers, so 
I'm looking for advice along those lines, too.

Vintage Mac printers use a serial interface and most PC printers use a 
parallel interface (although USB is becoming common). If the 'PC' 
printer had a serial interface, I would suppose an appropriate serial 
interface cable and printer driver could be produced, although there's 
no certainty that they have been for any particular model printer. I 
remember when we used to have to build custom serial cables for 
PC-to-printer connections, based on the brand of PC and the brand of 
printer. Standards can be a nice thing.

I would suspect that even the level of OS release on your Mac would make 
a difference as to which printer you can use. I picked up a Stylewriter 
II that I have yet to get to work on any of my vintage Macs, ranging 
from Mac Plus to LC-475, with OS from 7.x to 8.x. The printer self-tests 
fine, but doesn't respond to the printer - various error messages 
appear, depending upon which system I use. Some day I'll find the right 
combination of system, OS, and cable that will let me use it.

Fellow at my local Computer Renaissance says that the Canon bubble-jet 
printers have the same engine as the StyleWriters; only the interface 
circuitry is different. In fact, Canon actually was the manufacturer of 
the StyleWriters.

Sp00ky

[...snip...]
> Now just in the past few weeks I have seen a slew of cheap old Mac printers
> in thrift shops & pawn shops, and wonder if it's time to move on.  But I'm
> so printer inexperienced! Can someone take a few moments to expound on the
> relative merits of such printers as Personal LaserWriters (could have had
> one for $5 yesterday), Color Stylewriters, old Canons and Epsons, etc. etc.
> Also, this may sound ignorant but I'm confused about whether a PC printer
> such as DeskJet or Canon can be hooked up to a Mac provided you have the
> correct cable and drivers, or are printers strictly Mac or PC?
> 
> Bruce (in Orlando)

-- 
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   No matter how paranoid you are, it isn't paranoid enough.



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Re: Vintage Macs, Vintage Printers - only a little OT

[Jim Arnott]

PLW.. Your greatest expense will be paper. Inkjets... everytime you buy 
ink, you pay the equivilent of a new printer. (Anecdote: A local PC shop 
tells their customers when they come looking for ink to go to WalMart 
and get a new printer. Saves the customer about $10.)

Go back and get that laser.

Jim

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Since my Mac Plus days I've used a lot of different now-vintage macs, but
> in all that time I have used only 3 different printers with all of them - a
> DeskWriter 560C, a DeskWriter 660C, and an old StyleWriter B&W.  The 660C I
> am currently using at home I got with a P635 about 3 years ago, and I
> really don't like it much.
> 
> Now just in the past few weeks I have seen a slew of cheap old Mac printers
> in thrift shops & pawn shops, and wonder if it's time to move on.  But I'm
> so printer inexperienced! Can someone take a few moments to expound on the
> relative merits of such printers as Personal LaserWriters (could have had
> one for $5 yesterday), Color Stylewriters, old Canons and Epsons, etc. etc.
> Also, this may sound ignorant but I'm confused about whether a PC printer
> such as DeskJet or Canon can be hooked up to a Mac provided you have the
> correct cable and drivers, or are printers strictly Mac or PC?
> 
> Bruce (in Orlando)
> 
> 



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Vintage Macs, Vintage Printers - only a little OT

[Bruce . Hossfield]

Since my Mac Plus days I've used a lot of different now-vintage macs, but
in all that time I have used only 3 different printers with all of them - a
DeskWriter 560C, a DeskWriter 660C, and an old StyleWriter B&W.  The 660C I
am currently using at home I got with a P635 about 3 years ago, and I
really don't like it much.

Now just in the past few weeks I have seen a slew of cheap old Mac printers
in thrift shops & pawn shops, and wonder if it's time to move on.  But I'm
so printer inexperienced! Can someone take a few moments to expound on the
relative merits of such printers as Personal LaserWriters (could have had
one for $5 yesterday), Color Stylewriters, old Canons and Epsons, etc. etc.
Also, this may sound ignorant but I'm confused about whether a PC printer
such as DeskJet or Canon can be hooked up to a Mac provided you have the
correct cable and drivers, or are printers strictly Mac or PC?

Bruce (in Orlando)


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Tape Drives

[Ian Moffatt]

OK,

I have the Q950 working and networked. On my iMac I can see the 3 HD's in 
it and any SCSI device attached EXCEPT the built in tape drive. The drive 
starts OK and swallows a tape when I feed it. Various utilities see the drive 
but will not format or allow any work to be done on it. MT Everything will 
not allow it to mount.

I looked for drivers but HP's site only gives drives for *nix and NT etc.

Is someone now going to tell me I can only use this as part of the AUX rig?

If so, anyone want a tape drive and box of (unused and 4 out of 5 unopened)
  tapes?

Puzzled

Ian

--
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ian.moff/homepage.html


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Re: 7.6.1 boot floppy

[PeterH5322]

In a message dated 7/18/02 12:30:59 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<<
Is it possible?  If so, how can I do it?
>>

There is a 7.6.1 floppy which came with the 7.6.1 CD-ROM distribution.

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7.6.1 boot floppy

[dhill]

Is it possible?  If so, how can I do it?
-- 
Caddo County Harpman - ccharpman! "If you can't harp the blues, then 
you ain't a  harp player." (Eladicious 5,02) ADD RE to TIRED and you 
get ...  me. X-Public School Educator.  http://users.netride.net/dhill

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iMac 8.1 at Junk Store

[dhill]

I found an iMac set of disks at the used junk place and they are in 
pristine condition.   Never used. The disks didn't say what version 
they were, so I figured they were 9.0 or something.  Not likely.  Is 
iMac 8.1 any different from the old 8.0-8.1 update.  Will these 
disks, and there are two of them work on Quadras, early powers or 
PCIs?  Also found a neat IIGS with full memory and a bunch of 
wonderful kids games.   I got a 25% discount for be a retired 
citizen, too.
Dale
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you ain't a  harp player." (Eladicious 5,02) ADD RE to TIRED and you 
get ...  me. X-Public School Educator.  http://users.netride.net/dhill

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