Re: Top vs. Bottom Posting

[Shannon]

On Fri, Nov 15, 2002 at 06:45:22PM -0700, J Sand wrote:

> the message works the best.  Why don't we take a vote and have a standard 
> way agreed upon. Comments?

Why take a vote when there is a method that has been time tested for
over 15 years?

To me, if you are going to top-post, why not just remove the original
message anyway. I can't tell what a top-poster is replying to
specifically, and any decent threaded mail reader is going to let you
know what the thread is about already.

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Re: Re(2): Top vs. Bottom Posting

[vincenzo]

>>When I enter the reply mode the entire
>>message is selected;
>
>Highlight the text you want to quote, hold down shift as 
>you click reply. Then only the highlight will be quoted. Easy.

Works the same with Claris Emailer



Vincenzo



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Re: Top vs. Bottom Posting

[Spiritus ex Machina]

>To All Of Us:
>
>Am I the only one that is finding all these comments about top -VS-
>bottom filling up their email inbox a little silly.

Possibly, given that the exchange is continuing.  ;-)

>Have we gotten to the
>point of the "Point and Click" mentality and unable to resolve text manualy
>as needed in our replies to messages. "Cut and Paste" might take longer but
>it will get past all the shortfalls of the different email programs
>available.

I think that everyone has hir (<-PC meld of 'his' & 'her'; retains
subject/object number consistency) own comfort level between functionality
and ease-of-use. At some point, the technology makes it too onerous to do
the detailed editing and expediency takes over. I miss the simple,
plain-text, keyboard-centric interface of *nix Pine. Anyone know of a Mac
equivalent?

>I have found that either the responses that intermingle with comments
>after the original text or the complete prior message and then a response to
>the message works the best.

Overall, I prefer responses intermingled with text. To me it's just as
difficult to make back-references from post-responses to message body as it
is to make forward-references from pre-responses. I also like to see the
copious use of vertical whitespace - after munging a message through two or
three email clients, it's sometimes difficult to determine where the
citation leaves off and the response begins.

>Why don't we take a vote and have a standard
>way agreed upon. Comments?

The techno-libertarian in me cries out in anguish! Lets not try to
legislate an unenforcable standard. Allow peer pressure to do the job.


Sp00ky
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Re: Top vs. Bottom Posting

[the pickle]

At 18:45 -0700 on 15/11/02, J Sand wrote:

>Am I the only one that is finding all these comments about top -VS-
>bottom filling up their email inbox a little silly.  Have we gotten to the

Personally, I think it's been an interesting, if somewhat trivial, discussion
thus far, but what do I know?

>point of the "Point and Click" mentality and unable to resolve text manualy

Perhaps unsurprisingly, yes.  There are a LOT of people out there who 1) don't
care, 2) don't know better, and 3) are too lazy to bother.

>   I have found that either the responses that intermingle with comments
>after the original text or the complete prior message and then a response to
>the message works the best.  Why don't we take a vote and have a standard

I agree with that 100%, but I think voting is rather unnecessary.  Dan already
outlined policy, and having one policy for one list and another policy for
another list is an administrative nightmare.  People who mess up badly get
gently corrected, and life moves along.

Besides, elections are overrated.  Lists work much better as benevolent
dictatorships.
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Mac II Needs Adoption

[J Sand]

I have a MacII that I no longer need.  Does anyone wish to give it a new 
home.  The unit is for free, I live in La Crosse, WI and can ship it by bus 
(should be the chepest way I know) with the understanding that the new 
parent will pay for the shipping costs I incur.

John




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Re: Top vs. Bottom Posting

[J Sand]

To All Of Us:

Am I the only one that is finding all these comments about top -VS- 
bottom filling up their email inbox a little silly.  Have we gotten to the 
point of the "Point and Click" mentality and unable to resolve text manualy 
as needed in our replies to messages. "Cut and Paste" might take longer but 
it will get past all the shortfalls of the different email programs 
available.

   I have found that either the responses that intermingle with comments 
after the original text or the complete prior message and then a response to 
the message works the best.  Why don't we take a vote and have a standard 
way agreed upon. Comments?

John

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Re: Top vs. Bottom Posting

[the pickle]

At 11:36 +1100 on 16/11/02, Michael Dawe wrote:

>Mac). It can be easily configured not to top post, or include the entire
>quoted article, or worse, post in HTML. Users just need to be made aware of

Unfortunately, it comes defaulted to the WORST possible settings.  OE sucks.  I
hate it.
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Re: Top vs. Bottom Posting (e-mail clients bifurcation)

[the pickle]

At 01:53 +0100 on 16/11/02, Jonny Lindberg wrote:

>parameter when choosing an e-mail client is that the Mailsmith doesn't support
>HTML-rendering (Personally, I find this being in favour of the Mailsmith).

As would I.  HTML has no business whatsoever in e-mail, despite Microsoft's
(and thus the majority of Windoze drones') opinion to the contrary.
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Re: Top vs. Bottom Posting (e-mail clients bifurcation)

[Jonny Lindberg]

Mr. Pickle wrote:
>Suffice it to say that several friends of mine haven¹t found Mailsmith to be
>adequate in several areas.  It has amazing search and filtering, but as a
>general mail client, it leaves a bit to be desired, they say.

Well, It suffice to say it's a matter of prefered flavour then. A obvious
parameter when choosing an e-mail client is that the Mailsmith doesn't support
HTML-rendering (Personally, I find this being in favour of the Mailsmith).
Another is the high versability - like the mentioned search- and filtering
capabilites, spellcheck and so on. Also is, of course, the (high) price of
importance.  

I am not advocating for or against any e-mail client in particular here. Just an
inlay on the subject of quoting when replying.

Take care/S.J.



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Re: Top vs. Bottom Posting

[Michael Dawe]

on 14/11/2002, "John Ruschmeyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>> If you think Eudora 3.0 is bad, you should see Microsoft Outlook. You hit
>> reply, it basically set it up for a top post. You can't bottom
>> post even if
>> you wanted to unless you manually go through and add quote marks
>> and such.
> 
> Actually, you can do it in Outlook (don't know about Outlook Express). It's
> an option under Tools->Options->Preferences->E-mail Options.
> 
> Basically, you can change the quoting style to include quote marks. It still
> wants to let you top-post, but now it's just a matter of cutting text.

Options for Outlook Express [Reply and Forward]:

[check box]Include entire message in reply.
[check box]Use quoting characters when forwarding.
[check box]Reply to msg in format recieved.
[check box]Always reply using default account.
[radio button] Place insertion point *before* quoted text.
[radio button] Place insertion point *after* quoted text.
[check box]Prefix my mail with "on [Date], [Name], [Address] wrote:"

Outlook Express can work reasonably well if used only for mail (the news
client is pretty weak in comparison to stand alone clients available for the
Mac). It can be easily configured not to top post, or include the entire
quoted article, or worse, post in HTML. Users just need to be made aware of
that.

Mike


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Re: Top vs. Bottom Posting

[Spiritus ex Machina]

>>I am frequently, but not exclusively, a top quoter...
>
>I think what you're saying is that you think before responding - isn't that
>what we want??

That is certainly an affirming way of putting it. How PC (Politically
Correct, not Wintel) of you!  ;-)

>>...The mail client I am currently
>>using, Eudora Pro 3.0, is rather deficient in its options for response
>>composition ... I'd be interested in opinions about other mail
>>clients suitable for this platform.
>
>I use Eudora 3.1.31 Lite (even on my 'work' G3/9.2.2). Added into it are
>the Eudora Thing extension, which colours depth of quoting and makes it
>much easier to read interleaved discussions,
[...snip...]
>My other indispensible add-in is SpellTools, which adds Rubber Stamp Text
>blocks, a host of reformatting/editing tools and lots more, all in a
>floating toolbar.
>
>I've found this the quickest/most flexible setup to handle a wide variety
>of eMails, ymmv.

Thanks for all the good suggestions, Brian. As a plain-text, *nix-Pine
user, all these colorful plug-ins are still novel to me. I'll be checking
them out.

I recently realized that I also top-post when I'm doing swap list or eBay
transactions. This keeps the progress of the transaction accessable, but
keeps the current information at the top, where it gets read most easily. I
think the distinguishing characteristic here is the difference between
posting to a mail list and correspondance between two individuals.

Regards,

Sp00ky
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  "The universe is not only stranger than we imagine,
   it's stranger than we CAN imagine." - I. Asimov



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Re: Top vs. Bottom Posting

[Spiritus ex Machina]

>>the Eudora Thing extension, which colours depth of quoting...
>>
>>   this is shown in yellow
>
>Oh joy, yellow text on a white background!   ;-)
>

Of course, by the time it gets to Yellow, everybody following the thread
has already read it four times, so it's probably only of archive interest
anyway.


Sp00ky
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Re: Top vs. Bottom Posting

[Robert Gray]

>the Eudora Thing extension, which colours depth of quoting...
>
>   this is shown in yellow

Oh joy, yellow text on a white background!   ;-)


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Re: Top vs. Bottom Posting (e-mail clients bifurcation)

[the pickle]

At 14:35 +0100 on 15/11/02, Jonny Lindberg wrote:

>Why not try the Mailsmith from Bare Bones? Select the text you want to quote
>and

Suffice it to say that several friends of mine haven't found Mailsmith to be
adequate in several areas.  It has amazing search and filtering, but as a
general mail client, it leaves a bit to be desired, they say.
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Re: Top vs. Bottom Posting (e-mail clients bifurcation)

[Jonny Lindberg]

Hi!
Why not try the Mailsmith from Bare Bones? Select the text you want to quote and
hit the reply button (or use the menu), there it is in the reply window selected
and ready to either top- or bottom post. The  whole program is absolutely
"BBEditish" and has very fine search and filtering functions.
A matter of flavour?

Take care/S.J.
(No, I'm not associated with Bare Bones ;^))



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Re: Top vs. Bottom Posting

[BrianH]

>I am frequently, but not exclusively, a top quoter...

I think what you're saying is that you think before responding - isn't that
what we want??

>...The mail client I am currently
>using, Eudora Pro 3.0, is rather deficient in its options for response
>composition ... I'd be interested in opinions about other mail
>clients suitable for this platform.

I use Eudora 3.1.31 Lite (even on my 'work' G3/9.2.2). Added into it are
the Eudora Thing extension, which colours depth of quoting and makes it
much easier to read interleaved discussions, ie

> this is shown in blue

>> this is shown in red

>>> this is shown in green

 this is shown in yellow

and so on.

My other indispensible add-in is SpellTools, which adds Rubber Stamp Text
blocks, a host of reformatting/editing tools and lots more, all in a
floating toolbar.

I've found this the quickest/most flexible setup to handle a wide variety
of eMails, ymmv.

hth


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Take care .

Brian



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