Re: 840av question

[Bill Judson]

On Tue, 28 May 2002 21:27:18 -0500
Byron Gardner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> Technical Spec Manual shows them both to be Part 661-1687. Would Apple
name
> a part with different specs the same number??
>> 
>>> Is the power supply for a 800 the same as a 840av?
>> 
>> Not IIRC.
>> 
>> the pickle
>> 

My 8100 service manual, which I've had occasion to refer to recently, due to
a power supply problem, lists both the 661-1687 & the 661-0232 as possible
#s of the power supply for the 8100. Same input/output specs.

There is no indication that a specific 1 is required for a specific model of
the 8100 (I can't figure out which 1 I have from the label -- it says
MagneTek (Made in Italy), & the only Apple code that I can see reads
APPLE200 11394), i.e. whether the 8100/80 takes 1 # & the /100 or /110 takes
the other #.

So I would guess that they're all also interchangeable within the 800 & 840,
(or at least the 661-1687) AFAIK.

-- 
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Jutso

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Re: 840av question

[the pickle]

At 21:27 -0500 on 28/05/02, Byron Gardner wrote:

>Technical Spec Manual shows them both to be Part 661-1687. Would Apple name
>a part with different specs the same number??

You wouldn't think so, but every piece of information I've seen on the
840AV has indicated it uses a different PSU from that in an 800.

Come to think of it, though, I think Will Ahearn was using the PSU from my
800 in his 840AV for a while, so it will at least *work* if it won't be
identical in power output...

the pickle

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Re: 840av question

[Byron Gardner]

Technical Spec Manual shows them both to be Part 661-1687. Would Apple name
a part with different specs the same number??
> 
>> Is the power supply for a 800 the same as a 840av?
> 
> Not IIRC.
> 
> the pickle
> 


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Re: 840av question

[Clark Martin]

At 9:15 PM -0500 5/25/02, Bill Judson wrote:
>Said by various voices in the course of this thread:
>
What is the advantage of additional VRAM in the above computer? More
resolution? More color?
>>>
>>>The advantages of adding more VRAM is 2-fold. One aspect is that you
>>>can get the screen up to much higher resolutions (1024x768 @
>>
>>  I'm reasonably sure that no Macs attain higher resolutions through the use
>>  of VRAM, but bit depth is certainly helped.
>
>While this is true of Quadra built-in video, which tops out at 1152x870
>(except for the 630 & the like, which top out at 832x624), I was recently
>looking at AppleSpec, & they say that some early PCI PowerMacs (namely the
>4400, 7/8200) that can have as little as 1 meg of VRAM can't do 1280x1024,
>but those upgraded to 2 or more can.


Power Macs generally have a minimum color depth of 8 bits, Quadras 
and earlier could do 1bpp.  It's simple math.  You only need 128K 
bytes to display 1152x870x2.  To display 1152x870x256 you need 
1Mbyte.  It's simply that a minimal 1152x870 on a Quadra was "more" 
minimal than on a Power Mac.
-- 
Clark Martin
Redwood City, CA, USA
Macintosh / Internet Consulting
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: 840av question

[Bill Judson]

Said by various voices in the course of this thread:

>>>What is the advantage of additional VRAM in the above computer? More
>>>resolution? More color?
>>
>>The advantages of adding more VRAM is 2-fold. One aspect is that you
>>can get the screen up to much higher resolutions (1024x768 @
> 
> I'm reasonably sure that no Macs attain higher resolutions through the use
> of VRAM, but bit depth is certainly helped.

While this is true of Quadra built-in video, which tops out at 1152x870
(except for the 630 & the like, which top out at 832x624), I was recently
looking at AppleSpec, & they say that some early PCI PowerMacs (namely the
4400, 7/8200) that can have as little as 1 meg of VRAM can't do 1280x1024,
but those upgraded to 2 or more can.

Not sure why. Maybe something to do with bandwidth? These same machines
apparently can't do 1152x870 at millions of colors, even with 4 megs, even
though it's mathematically possible to hold that buffer, because their video
bus can't provide the data bandwidth necessary to refresh the screen 75
times a second.

It's OT here anyway, so enough about it from me, but I just wanted to note
this peculiarity.

-- 
Over,

Jutso

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Re: 840av question

[the pickle]

At 12:42 -0500 on 25/05/02, Byron Gardner wrote:

>Is the power supply for a 800 the same as a 840av?

Not IIRC.

the pickle

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Re: 840av question

[Mark Benson]

>At 09:02 +0100 on 25/05/02, Mark Benson wrote:
>
>>>What is the advantage of additional VRAM in the above computer? More
>>>resolution? More color?
>>
>>The advantages of adding more VRAM is 2-fold. One aspect is that you
>>can get the screen up to much higher resolutions (1024x768 @
>
>I'm reasonably sure that no Macs attain higher resolutions through the use
>of VRAM, but bit depth is certainly helped.

Theoretically, and on a PC, more VRAM allows higher screen 
resolutions as it allows more VRAM to store a larger screen area data 
in. In the case of Macs however your right, it doesn't tend to 
increase screen res, only bit depth.

>  >the desktop and that being used to display the video input. This
>>means the more VRAM the better. It makes out at 2MB taking 4 (60ns
>  >IIRC) 68-pin 256k SIMMs.
>
>I think only the regular RAM has to be 60ns; the VRAM can be 80ns.  If it
>had to be 60ns, faster-than-80ns VRAM would be a helluva lot more common
>(read: it would exist).

Right again. The 60ns VRAM is the PowerMac SIMM/DIMM types. All 68ks 
use 80ns AFAI can see.
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Re: 840av question

[Mark Benson]

>Is the power supply for a 800 the same as a 840av?

No, it isn't as far as I know. Lord knows why.
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Re: 840av question

[Byron Gardner]

Is the power supply for a 800 the same as a 840av?

>>> What is the advantage of additional VRAM in the above computer? More
>>> resolution? More color?
>> 
>> The advantages of adding more VRAM is 2-fold. One aspect is that you
>> can get the screen up to much higher resolutions (1024x768 @
> 
> I'm reasonably sure that no Macs attain higher resolutions through the use
> of VRAM, but bit depth is certainly helped.
> 
>> the desktop and that being used to display the video input. This
>> means the more VRAM the better. It makes out at 2MB taking 4 (60ns
>> IIRC) 68-pin 256k SIMMs.
> 
> I think only the regular RAM has to be 60ns; the VRAM can be 80ns.  If it
> had to be 60ns, faster-than-80ns VRAM would be a helluva lot more common
> (read: it would exist).
> 
> the pickle
> 
> FAQ 
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Re: 840av question

[the pickle]

At 09:02 +0100 on 25/05/02, Mark Benson wrote:

>>What is the advantage of additional VRAM in the above computer? More
>>resolution? More color?
>
>The advantages of adding more VRAM is 2-fold. One aspect is that you
>can get the screen up to much higher resolutions (1024x768 @

I'm reasonably sure that no Macs attain higher resolutions through the use
of VRAM, but bit depth is certainly helped.

>the desktop and that being used to display the video input. This
>means the more VRAM the better. It makes out at 2MB taking 4 (60ns
>IIRC) 68-pin 256k SIMMs.

I think only the regular RAM has to be 60ns; the VRAM can be 80ns.  If it
had to be 60ns, faster-than-80ns VRAM would be a helluva lot more common
(read: it would exist).

the pickle

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Re: 840av question

[Mark Benson]

>What is the advantage of additional VRAM in the above computer? More
>resolution? More color?

The advantages of adding more VRAM is 2-fold. One aspect is that you 
can get the screen up to much higher resolutions (1024x768 @ 
Thousands of colours and higher IIRC). The other is that you can 
display video from the AV-IN ports on the machine whilst using the 
machine at higher resolutions (up to 823x624 @ 256 colours IIRC) . 
The reason for this is that the system for running the Computer and 
operating system is separate from the system that runs the AV-IN and 
AV-OUT ports and renders the video to screen. Therefore, at any one 
time, the VRAM is split into two segments, that being used to display 
the desktop and that being used to display the video input. This 
means the more VRAM the better. It makes out at 2MB taking 4 (60ns 
IIRC) 68-pin 256k SIMMs.

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