Re: [ntp:questions] NTP - orphan mode with SAME stratum ("tos orphan 6") FAIL to sync.
sheikdawoodraj...@gmail.com,
The x's have nothing to do with broadcast or with orphan or with the
number of hosts, which is unlimited. It has to do with the intersection
algorithm. Your broadcast clients have very large offsets beyond the
panic threshold (1000 s). In addition, your prmary and secondary rails
should be within a few milliseconds of each other or the correctness
intervals might not overlap. See the docuementation for the tos mindist
command.
Easiest way to start is to disable one of the rails and let the
munchkins synchronize, then bring up the second rail.
Dave
sheikdawoodraj...@gmail.com wrote:
>I am testing "Time Island" in NTP on Windows platform.
>I built the binaries using source downloaded from meinberg site.
>
>Binaries built successfully and I'm testing it now.
>
>NTP on ALL the nodes (7 nodes) with SAME stratum "orphan stratum 6"
>identically configured
>both as broadcast client and broadcast server ("Time Island") works
>fine.
>
>Problem:
>--
>When all the 7 nodes have the same config, using "orphan stratum 6"
>and using the primary/secondary network broadcast FAILED to time-sync.
>
>Time sync was successful ONLY if i do testing <=5 nodes.
>
>And the "Selection algorithm tuning parameters" has the below values:
>#defineNTP_MINCLOCK3 /* min survivors */
>#defineNTP_MAXCLOCK10 /* max candidates */
>#defineNTP_MAXASSOC50 /* max associations */
>
>Does it mean we cant have mode than 5 nodes (every node has 2
>broadcast interfaces, one for primary and other for secondary)
>configured in the SAME stratum level ?
>
>If I have more 7 nodes during the testing, the "ntpq -q" results
>"X" condition to ALL the nodes during the query.
>
>What's the MAX number of nodes that can be used for ORPHAN mode
>testing?
>
>Any suggestions on this regard are welcome!!
>
>BILLBOARD results:
>--
>
>ntpq>
>peers
> remote refid st t when poll reach delay
>offset jitter
>==
> 39.95.255.255 .BCST. 16 u- 6400.000
>0.000 0.001
> 39.111.255.255 .BCST. 16 u- 6400.000
>0.000 0.001
>x39.92.128.6 127.0.0.16 u 59 64 3760.236
>-130361 1.410
>x39.108.128.6127.0.0.16 u 53 64 3760.174
>-130361 1.396
>x39.98.208.6 127.0.0.16 u 61 64 3760.210
>-548318 2.975
>x39.82.208.6 127.0.0.16 u 60 64 3760.218
>-548318 2.541
>x39.81.224.16127.0.0.16 u 42 64 3760.393
>-455581 1.901
>x39.97.224.16127.0.0.16 u 48 64 3770.390
>-455581 1.621
>x39.81.224.15127.0.0.16 u 45 64 3760.216
>-455603 0.695
>x39.97.224.15127.0.0.16 u 36 64 3760.502
>-455604 0.698
>x39.81.224.6 127.0.0.16 u 43 64 3770.176
>1059871 0.968
>x39.97.224.6 127.0.0.16 u 45 64 3760.245
>1059868 0.815
>x39.97.64.6 127.0.0.16 u 29 64 3760.236
>42.836 3.811
>x39.81.64.6 127.0.0.16 u 24 64 3770.194
>43.809 4.880
>ntpq>
>
>
>ntpq>
>assoc
>
>ind assID status conf reach auth condition last_event
>cnt
>===
> 1 37893 c000 yes yes bad
>reject
> 2 37894 c000 yes yes bad
>reject
> 3 37895 7114no yes ok falsetick reachable
>1
> 4 37896 7114no yes ok falsetick reachable
>1
> 5 37897 7114no yes ok falsetick reachable
>1
> 6 37898 7114no yes ok falsetick reachable
>1
> 7 37899 7114no yes ok falsetick reachable
>1
> 8 37900 7114no yes ok falsetick reachable
>1
> 9 37901 7114no yes ok falsetick reachable
>1
> 10 37902 7114no yes ok falsetick reachable
>1
> 11 37903 7114no yes ok falsetick reachable
>1
> 12 37904 7114no yes ok falsetick reachable
>1
> 13 37905 7114no yes ok falsetick reachable
>1
> 14 37906 7114no yes ok falsetick reachable
>1
>ntpq>
>
>
>ntpq>
>passoc
>
>ind assID status conf reach auth condition last_event
>cnt
>===
> 1 37893 c000 yes yes bad
>reject
> 2 37894 c000 yes yes bad
>reject
> 3 37895 7114no yes ok falsetick reachable
>1
> 4 37896 7114no yes ok falsetick reachable
>1
> 5 37897 7114no yes ok falsetick reachable
>1
> 6 37898 7114no yes ok falsetick reachable
>1
> 7 37899 7114no yes ok falsetick reachable
>1
> 8 37900 7114no yes ok falsetick reachable
>1
> 9 37901 7114no yes ok falsetick reachable
>1
> 10 37902 7114no yes ok falsetick reachable
>1
> 11 37903 7114no yes ok falsetick reachable
>1
> 12 37904 7114no yes ok falsetick
Re: [ntp:questions] NTP - orphan mode with SAME stratum ("tos orphan 6") FAIL to sync.
Thanks for the info.
[Dave] Your broadcast clients have very large offsets beyond the
panic threshold (1000 s).
>> I verified my configuration file and it has "tinker panic 0" command
present to accept ANY offset value by ntpd service. Let me know if
you
think otherwise
[Dave] Easiest way to start is to disable one of the rails and let the
munchkins synchronize, then bring up the second rail.
>> I'll do it and let you know.
And also I've seen a "low" offset numbers for both primary/secondary
ONLY
when I start the ntpd service ONE-BY-ONE.
For example:
having 7 nodes in the environment, if I stop ALL of them and
start 2 nodes only, the offset values are low and it sync fine.
By doing the same way, starting services one-by-one works fine too..
It fails only IF ALL of the services started @ once...
may be the offset values are higher bcoz of time overlap.
QSTN
1) I doubt there could be problem/failures in "Leader" selection
algorithm
implementation in "ORPHAN" mode. Thoughts??
2) Running 7 nodes in "ORPHAN mode with same stratum", how to
verify who is the leader?
Pls share your thoughts.
~ DWD
On Apr 3, 8:14 am, mi...@udel.edu (David Mills) wrote:
> sheikdawoodraj...@gmail.com,
>
> The x's have nothing to do with broadcast or withorphanor with the
> number of hosts, which is unlimited. It has to do with the intersection
> algorithm. Your broadcast clients have very large offsets beyond the
> panic threshold (1000 s). In addition, your prmary and secondary rails
> should be within a few milliseconds of each other or the correctness
> intervals might not overlap. See the docuementation for the tos mindist
> command.
>
> Easiest way to start is to disable one of the rails and let the
> munchkins synchronize, then bring up the second rail.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> sheikdawoodraj...@gmail.com wrote:
> >I am testing "Time Island" in NTP on Windows platform.
> >I built the binaries using source downloaded from meinberg site.
>
> >Binaries built successfully and I'm testing it now.
>
> >NTP on ALL the nodes (7 nodes) with SAME stratum "orphanstratum 6"
> >identically configured
> >both as broadcast client and broadcast server ("Time Island") works
> >fine.
>
> >Problem:
> >--
> >When all the 7 nodes have the same config, using "orphanstratum 6"
> >and using the primary/secondary network broadcast FAILED to time-sync.
>
> >Time sync was successful ONLY if i do testing <=5 nodes.
>
> >And the "Selection algorithm tuning parameters" has the belowvalues:
> >#define NTP_MINCLOCK 3 /* min survivors */
> >#define NTP_MAXCLOCK 10 /* max candidates */
> >#define NTP_MAXASSOC 50 /* max associations */
>
> >Does it mean we cant have mode than 5 nodes (every node has 2
> >broadcast interfaces, one for primary and other for secondary)
> >configured in the SAME stratum level ?
>
> >If I have more 7 nodes during the testing, the "ntpq -q" results
> >"X" condition to ALL the nodes during the query.
>
> >What's the MAX number of nodes that can be used forORPHANmode
> >testing?
>
> >Any suggestions on this regard are welcome!!
>
> >BILLBOARD results:
> >--
>
> >ntpq>
> >peers
> > remote refid st t when poll reach delay
> >offset jitter
> >==
> > 39.95.255.255 .BCST. 16 u - 64 0 0.000
> >0.000 0.001
> > 39.111.255.255 .BCST. 16 u - 64 0 0.000
> >0.000 0.001
> >x39.92.128.6 127.0.0.1 6 u 59 64 376 0.236
> >-130361 1.410
> >x39.108.128.6 127.0.0.1 6 u 53 64 376 0.174
> >-130361 1.396
> >x39.98.208.6 127.0.0.1 6 u 61 64 376 0.210
> >-548318 2.975
> >x39.82.208.6 127.0.0.1 6 u 60 64 376 0.218
> >-548318 2.541
> >x39.81.224.16 127.0.0.1 6 u 42 64 376 0.393
> >-455581 1.901
> >x39.97.224.16 127.0.0.1 6 u 48 64 377 0.390
> >-455581 1.621
> >x39.81.224.15 127.0.0.1 6 u 45 64 376 0.216
> >-455603 0.695
> >x39.97.224.15 127.0.0.1 6 u 36 64 376 0.502
> >-455604 0.698
> >x39.81.224.6 127.0.0.1 6 u 43 64 377 0.176
> >1059871 0.968
> >x39.97.224.6 127.0.0.1 6 u 45 64 376 0.245
> >1059868 0.815
> >x39.97.64.6 127.0.0.1 6 u 29 64 376 0.236
> >42.836 3.811
> >x39.81.64.6 127.0.0.1 6 u 24 64 377 0.194
> >43.809 4.880
> >ntpq>
>
> >ntpq>
> >assoc
>
> >ind assID status conf reach auth condition last_event
> >cnt
> >===
> > 1 37893 c000 yes yes bad
> >reject
> > 2 37894 c000 yes yes bad
> >reject
> > 3 37895 7114 no yes ok falsetick reachable
> >1
> > 4 37896 7114 no yes ok falsetick reachable
> >1
> > 5 37897 7114 no yes ok falsetick reachable
> >1
> > 6 37898 7114 no yes
[ntp:questions] ->>> DELTA AIR <<<-
``` ``` ENTER HERE: >>> http://find-365.com/pages/Delta-Air <<< ``` ``` ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] NTP - orphan mode with SAME stratum ("tos orphan 6") FAIL to sync.
sheikdawoodraj...@gmail.com,
The only thing that the tinker command does is accept any offset no
matter how large. The x's you show have nothing to do with that. As I
said, the intersection algorithm is discarding all packets because you
have only two sources and there is no majority subset. Please reconsider
my suggestion.
Dave
sheikdawoodraj...@gmail.com wrote:
>Thanks for the info.
>
>[Dave] Your broadcast clients have very large offsets beyond the
>panic threshold (1000 s).
>
>
>>>I verified my configuration file and it has "tinker panic 0" command
>>>
>>>
>present to accept ANY offset value by ntpd service. Let me know if
>you
>think otherwise
>
>[Dave] Easiest way to start is to disable one of the rails and let the
>munchkins synchronize, then bring up the second rail.
>
>
>>>I'll do it and let you know.
>>>
>>>
>
>And also I've seen a "low" offset numbers for both primary/secondary
>ONLY
>when I start the ntpd service ONE-BY-ONE.
>
>For example:
>having 7 nodes in the environment, if I stop ALL of them and
>start 2 nodes only, the offset values are low and it sync fine.
>
>By doing the same way, starting services one-by-one works fine too..
>
>It fails only IF ALL of the services started @ once...
>
>may be the offset values are higher bcoz of time overlap.
>
>QSTN
>1) I doubt there could be problem/failures in "Leader" selection
>algorithm
>implementation in "ORPHAN" mode. Thoughts??
>
>2) Running 7 nodes in "ORPHAN mode with same stratum", how to
>verify who is the leader?
>
>
>Pls share your thoughts.
>
>
>~ DWD
>
>On Apr 3, 8:14 am, mi...@udel.edu (David Mills) wrote:
>
>
>>sheikdawoodraj...@gmail.com,
>>
>>The x's have nothing to do with broadcast or withorphanor with the
>>number of hosts, which is unlimited. It has to do with the intersection
>>algorithm. Your broadcast clients have very large offsets beyond the
>>panic threshold (1000 s). In addition, your prmary and secondary rails
>>should be within a few milliseconds of each other or the correctness
>>intervals might not overlap. See the docuementation for the tos mindist
>>command.
>>
>>Easiest way to start is to disable one of the rails and let the
>>munchkins synchronize, then bring up the second rail.
>>
>>Dave
>>
>>
>>
>>sheikdawoodraj...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I am testing "Time Island" in NTP on Windows platform.
>>>I built the binaries using source downloaded from meinberg site.
>>>
>>>
>>>Binaries built successfully and I'm testing it now.
>>>
>>>
>>>NTP on ALL the nodes (7 nodes) with SAME stratum "orphanstratum 6"
>>>identically configured
>>>both as broadcast client and broadcast server ("Time Island") works
>>>fine.
>>>
>>>
>>>Problem:
>>>--
>>>When all the 7 nodes have the same config, using "orphanstratum 6"
>>>and using the primary/secondary network broadcast FAILED to time-sync.
>>>
>>>
>>>Time sync was successful ONLY if i do testing <=5 nodes.
>>>
>>>
>>>And the "Selection algorithm tuning parameters" has the belowvalues:
>>>#define NTP_MINCLOCK3 /* min survivors */
>>>#define NTP_MAXCLOCK10 /* max candidates */
>>>#define NTP_MAXASSOC50 /* max associations */
>>>
>>>
>>>Does it mean we cant have mode than 5 nodes (every node has 2
>>>broadcast interfaces, one for primary and other for secondary)
>>>configured in the SAME stratum level ?
>>>
>>>
>>>If I have more 7 nodes during the testing, the "ntpq -q" results
>>>"X" condition to ALL the nodes during the query.
>>>
>>>
>>>What's the MAX number of nodes that can be used forORPHANmode
>>>testing?
>>>
>>>
>>>Any suggestions on this regard are welcome!!
>>>
>>>
>>>BILLBOARD results:
>>>--
>>>
>>>
>>>ntpq>
>>>peers
>>>remote refid st t when poll reach delay
>>>offset jitter
>>>==
>>>39.95.255.255 .BCST. 16 u- 6400.000
>>>0.000 0.001
>>>39.111.255.255 .BCST. 16 u- 6400.000
>>>0.000 0.001
>>>x39.92.128.6 127.0.0.16 u 59 64 3760.236
>>>-130361 1.410
>>>x39.108.128.6127.0.0.16 u 53 64 3760.174
>>>-130361 1.396
>>>x39.98.208.6 127.0.0.16 u 61 64 3760.210
>>>-548318 2.975
>>>x39.82.208.6 127.0.0.16 u 60 64 3760.218
>>>-548318 2.541
>>>x39.81.224.16127.0.0.16 u 42 64 3760.393
>>>-455581 1.901
>>>x39.97.224.16127.0.0.16 u 48 64 3770.390
>>>-455581 1.621
>>>x39.81.224.15127.0.0.16 u 45 64 3760.216
>>>-455603 0.695
>>>x39.97.224.15127.0.0.16 u 36 64 3760.502
>>>-455604 0.698
>>>x39.81.224.6 127.0.0.16 u 43 64 3770.176
>>>1059871 0.968
>>>x39.97.224.6 127.0.0.16 u 45 64 3760.245
>>>1059868 0.815
>>>x39.97.64.6 127.0.0.16
Re: [ntp:questions] NTP - orphan mode with SAME stratum ("tos orphan 6") FAIL to sync.
sheikdawoodraj...@gmail.com,
You might want to review the architecture briefing on the NTP Project
Page. Note the definitions of correctness interval, intersection
algorithm and majority subset. With only two sources there can be only
one majorite subset and that must include both sources. If the
correctness intervals do not overlap, neither source is believed and
both are marked x. This is not an implmentation matter; it devolves from
the theory and has confused many folks in the past.
In order to minimuze the grief this can cause if the sources are very
precise and have very low synchronization distance, but doffer by more
than a few ms, a shim can be added to the correctness interval using the
tos mindist comand. The mindist defaults to .005 s by compromise, but
you can set it higher to be more forgiving, say .05, should your sources
be expected to differ by that much..
Dave
sheikdawoodraj...@gmail.com wrote:
>Thanks for the info.
>
>[Dave] Your broadcast clients have very large offsets beyond the
>panic threshold (1000 s).
>
>
>>>I verified my configuration file and it has "tinker panic 0" command
>>>
>>>
>present to accept ANY offset value by ntpd service. Let me know if
>you
>think otherwise
>
>[Dave] Easiest way to start is to disable one of the rails and let the
>munchkins synchronize, then bring up the second rail.
>
>
>>>I'll do it and let you know.
>>>
>>>
>
>And also I've seen a "low" offset numbers for both primary/secondary
>ONLY
>when I start the ntpd service ONE-BY-ONE.
>
>For example:
>having 7 nodes in the environment, if I stop ALL of them and
>start 2 nodes only, the offset values are low and it sync fine.
>
>By doing the same way, starting services one-by-one works fine too..
>
>It fails only IF ALL of the services started @ once...
>
>may be the offset values are higher bcoz of time overlap.
>
>QSTN
>1) I doubt there could be problem/failures in "Leader" selection
>algorithm
>implementation in "ORPHAN" mode. Thoughts??
>
>2) Running 7 nodes in "ORPHAN mode with same stratum", how to
>verify who is the leader?
>
>
>Pls share your thoughts.
>
>
>~ DWD
>
>On Apr 3, 8:14 am, mi...@udel.edu (David Mills) wrote:
>
>
>>sheikdawoodraj...@gmail.com,
>>
>>The x's have nothing to do with broadcast or withorphanor with the
>>number of hosts, which is unlimited. It has to do with the intersection
>>algorithm. Your broadcast clients have very large offsets beyond the
>>panic threshold (1000 s). In addition, your prmary and secondary rails
>>should be within a few milliseconds of each other or the correctness
>>intervals might not overlap. See the docuementation for the tos mindist
>>command.
>>
>>Easiest way to start is to disable one of the rails and let the
>>munchkins synchronize, then bring up the second rail.
>>
>>Dave
>>
>>
>>
>>sheikdawoodraj...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I am testing "Time Island" in NTP on Windows platform.
>>>I built the binaries using source downloaded from meinberg site.
>>>
>>>
>>>Binaries built successfully and I'm testing it now.
>>>
>>>
>>>NTP on ALL the nodes (7 nodes) with SAME stratum "orphanstratum 6"
>>>identically configured
>>>both as broadcast client and broadcast server ("Time Island") works
>>>fine.
>>>
>>>
>>>Problem:
>>>--
>>>When all the 7 nodes have the same config, using "orphanstratum 6"
>>>and using the primary/secondary network broadcast FAILED to time-sync.
>>>
>>>
>>>Time sync was successful ONLY if i do testing <=5 nodes.
>>>
>>>
>>>And the "Selection algorithm tuning parameters" has the belowvalues:
>>>#define NTP_MINCLOCK3 /* min survivors */
>>>#define NTP_MAXCLOCK10 /* max candidates */
>>>#define NTP_MAXASSOC50 /* max associations */
>>>
>>>
>>>Does it mean we cant have mode than 5 nodes (every node has 2
>>>broadcast interfaces, one for primary and other for secondary)
>>>configured in the SAME stratum level ?
>>>
>>>
>>>If I have more 7 nodes during the testing, the "ntpq -q" results
>>>"X" condition to ALL the nodes during the query.
>>>
>>>
>>>What's the MAX number of nodes that can be used forORPHANmode
>>>testing?
>>>
>>>
>>>Any suggestions on this regard are welcome!!
>>>
>>>
>>>BILLBOARD results:
>>>--
>>>
>>>
>>>ntpq>
>>>peers
>>>remote refid st t when poll reach delay
>>>offset jitter
>>>==
>>>39.95.255.255 .BCST. 16 u- 6400.000
>>>0.000 0.001
>>>39.111.255.255 .BCST. 16 u- 6400.000
>>>0.000 0.001
>>>x39.92.128.6 127.0.0.16 u 59 64 3760.236
>>>-130361 1.410
>>>x39.108.128.6127.0.0.16 u 53 64 3760.174
>>>-130361 1.396
>>>x39.98.208.6 127.0.0.16 u 61 64 3760.210
>>>-548318 2.975
>>>x39.82.208.6 127.0.0.16 u 60 64 376
[ntp:questions] (no subject)
Hello everybody, Why does ntp (ntp-4.2.4p4 in specific) require an operating system? I use embedded Linux (kernel-2.6.23-rc3+Busybox+grub) to run ntpd and ntpq.I would like to run NTP (ntpd and ntpq) in a product developent kit of LPC 2378 microcontroller that does not have support for uClinux,Linux or WINCE.Is it possible?Can I use a part of the source code inside the ntp4.2.4p4.tar.gz package and compile it and run it without any OS.Please give me your suggestions,links and other materials that answer the above questions. ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Stick to PPS, even if the prefer server fails
Unruh wrote: > mi...@udel.edu (David Mills) writes: > >>John, > >>The intersection algorithm has been documented in several places along >>with configuration controls to modify its behavior. Is the tyranny you >>cite due to that algorithm or the notion of the prefer peer in the first >>place? If the latter, do you have an alternate suggestion? > > Well, I would suggest that the atom driver has a flag-- a fudge or > something, which would dissociate it from any prefer peer once intial lock > had been obtained. Ie, itwould regard the PPS as the best time source > whether any prefer peer exists or not. That way , if someone wants the > current behaviour they can have it, and if they want the PPS to take > precedence they can have that as well. IF you are going to have a single > PPS driver, which you appear to want, then it is a good idea to make it > very flexible and able to be set up to the user's desires. If the PPS input is assigned to a refclock then the current behaviour is to mark the associated refclock as "prefer". Unfortunately you can only mark only other other time source as "prefer", and if you'd mark several "prefer" sources that would be at least ambiguous. Maybe a good way to solve this would be to do it the other way round. Configure an atom driver and assign the pseudo IP of a refclock to it, e.g. using a fudge command or a keyword on the configuration line. This could tell the NTP kernel this PPS source is associated to that refclock, and it could evaluate the refclock sync status to determine whether the PPS source is freewheeling because the refclock fell out of sync, or not. This would also provide a simple way to configure several PPS sources in parallel, each associated to the configured refclock. And, if no refclock association is defined for a PPS source, ntpd could assume this is from an independent PPS source like a cesium. Martin -- Martin Burnicki Meinberg Funkuhren Bad Pyrmont Germany ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Stick to PPS, even if the prefer server fails
Unruh wrote: > You mean the cdma clock will continue to deliver a PPS signal running it > off an internal drifting clock? A PPS is simply a pulse every second. How > does it deliver the information that it is bad? Or you know it is bad > because it starts to drift with respect to other clocks you trust more? > And why do you trust them more? If you look at this from the refclock's point of view this may make sense. If the refclock starts up the time is not synchronized, and the PPS output may be disabled. After the refclock has synchronized to its time source, e.g. the GPS sats, status changes to synchronized and the PPS output is enabled. If the refclock *then* fails to receive the satellites the internal timing is not immediately bad since many refclocks provide an oscillator which is magnitudes better than the cheap chrystal in a PC. If the refclock additionally tells its "time consumer" (ntpd or whatever) via some status flags that it has lost synchronization the the "time consumer" can decide whether to still accept the refclock plus PPS as time source, or not. The now unsynchronized refclock may still be accepted if no other reliable time source is available, and may be discarded if there's a better time source. Configuration of this could be simplified using the proposal in my other post, i.e. assign a refclock's pseudo UIP to a PPS source instead of marking one refclock as "prefer". BTW, this is also how ntpd itself works. If an ntpd node syncs to an upstream time source it declares itself as synchronized with a good stratum, depending on the stratum of the upstream source. After the upstream source has become unreachable the ntpd node keeps claiming to be synchronized, at least as indicated by the leap bits, and it also keeps its stratum, at least if no other time source has been configured which is still reachable. Martin -- Martin Burnicki Meinberg Funkuhren Bad Pyrmont Germany ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] (no subject)
On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 7:32 AM, Varrun Ashok wrote: > Hello everybody, Why does ntp (ntp-4.2.4p4 in specific) require an > operating system? > I use embedded Linux (kernel-2.6.23-rc3+Busybox+grub) to run ntpd and ntpq.I > would > like to run NTP (ntpd and ntpq) in a product developent kit of LPC 2378 > microcontroller > that does not have support for uClinux,Linux or WINCE.Is it possible?Can I > use a part > of the source code inside the ntp4.2.4p4.tar.gz package and compile it and > run it > without any OS.Please give me your suggestions,links and other materials that > answer the above questions. ntpd relies on the host OS for a great many functions, including: IP networking services Hardware device drivers Process management Interrupt handling File-system management (for configuration files and logs) System clock and timer services If you your microcontroller development kit can supply all of those services using similar APIs as the ntp code requires, then you can probably hack ntp into working on that microcontroller. But if not, then you will have to add all of that functionality into ntpd's code base yourself. -- RPM ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] (no subject)
"Varrun Ashok" wrote in message news:77927.74008...@web55108.mail.re4.yahoo.com... > Hello everybody, Why does ntp (ntp-4.2.4p4 in specific) require an > operating system? ... Well, for one thing because it expects to be disciplining a software clock. For another thing, because it wants to talk UDP to other hosts. Groetjes, Maarten Wiltink ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] (no subject)
Varrun Ashok wrote: > Hello everybody, Why does ntp (ntp-4.2.4p4 in specific) require an operating > system? I use embedded Linux (kernel-2.6.23-rc3+Busybox+grub) to run ntpd and > ntpq.I would like to run NTP (ntpd and ntpq) in a product developent kit of > LPC 2378 microcontroller that does not have support for uClinux,Linux or > WINCE.Is it possible?Can I use a part of the source code inside the > ntp4.2.4p4.tar.gz package and compile it and run it without any OS.Please give > me your suggestions,links and other materials that answer the above > questions. It does not require an operating system per se. It does require some services usually supplied by an operating system. From memory, I can tell you that it needs read(), write(), malloc(), and free(). I believe that inspection of the source code would reveal several more! ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] (no subject)
varrunas...@yahoo.com (Varrun Ashok) writes: >Hello everybody, Why does ntp (ntp-4.2.4p4 in specific) require an operating >system? I use embedded Linux (kernel-2.6.23-rc3+Busybox+grub) to run ntpd and >ntpq.I would like to run NTP (ntpd and ntpq) in a product developent kit of >LPC 2378 microcontroller that does not have support for uClinux,Linux or >WINCE.Is it possible?Can I use a part of the source code inside the >ntp4.2.4p4.tar.gz package and compile it and run it without any OS.Please give >me your suggestions,links and other materials that answer the above >questions. Because ntp writes to files and reads files, writes to network interfaces and reads from network interfaces, alters the system clock. all those are things handled by "operating systems" Sure you could write them all yourself if you really wanted to. ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] (no subject)
Ryan Malayter wrote: > On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 7:32 AM, Varrun Ashok wrote: >> Hello everybody, Why does ntp (ntp-4.2.4p4 in specific) require an > operating system? >> I use embedded Linux (kernel-2.6.23-rc3+Busybox+grub) to run ntpd and ntpq.I > would >> like to run NTP (ntpd and ntpq) in a product developent kit of LPC 2378 > microcontroller >> that does not have support for uClinux,Linux or WINCE.Is it possible?Can I > use a part >> of the source code inside the ntp4.2.4p4.tar.gz package and compile it and > run it >> without any OS.Please give me your suggestions,links and other materials > that >> answer the above questions. > > ntpd relies on the host OS for a great many functions, including: >IP networking services >Hardware device drivers >Process management >Interrupt handling >File-system management (for configuration files and logs) >System clock and timer services > > If you your microcontroller development kit can supply all of those > services using similar APIs as the ntp code requires, then you can > probably hack ntp into working on that microcontroller. But if not, > then you will have to add all of that functionality into ntpd's code > base yourself. > > > -- > RPM ISTR that PHK has been running NTPD on Soekris single board computers with the program and O/S (if any) in PROM. When you don't have a file system or much in the way of hardware and you run a single application, you don't NEED much of an O/S. ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] (no subject)
Varrun Ashok wrote: > Hello everybody, Why does ntp (ntp-4.2.4p4 in specific) require an operating > system? I use embedded Linux (kernel-2.6.23-rc3+Busybox+grub) to run ntpd and > ntpq.I would like to run NTP (ntpd and ntpq) in a product developent kit of > LPC 2378 microcontroller that does not have support for uClinux,Linux or > WINCE.Is it possible?Can I use a part of the source code inside the > ntp4.2.4p4.tar.gz package and compile it and run it without any OS.Please give > me your suggestions,links and other materials that answer the above > questions. The software clock is an abstraction created by the operating system. If you have a software clock you have some sort of operating system. So, if you don't have an OS, you have no need for ntpd! You just have to port nptd to that OS. ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] (no subject)
Folks, You may be amused that the first C-language NTP implemented following the Fuzzball was by Dennis Fergusson for an embedded processor with no operating system. He was so paranoid as to avoid the Unix printf and scanf routines. If you look closely around the present day libntp you can still see his fingerprints. Dave Richard B. Gilbert wrote: >Varrun Ashok wrote: > > >>Hello everybody, Why does ntp (ntp-4.2.4p4 in specific) require an operating >>system? I use embedded Linux (kernel-2.6.23-rc3+Busybox+grub) to run ntpd and >>ntpq.I would like to run NTP (ntpd and ntpq) in a product developent kit of >>LPC 2378 microcontroller that does not have support for uClinux,Linux or >>WINCE.Is it possible?Can I use a part of the source code inside the >>ntp4.2.4p4.tar.gz package and compile it and run it without any OS.Please give >>me your suggestions,links and other materials that answer the above >>questions. >> >> > >It does not require an operating system per se. It does require some >services usually supplied by an operating system. From memory, I can >tell you that it needs read(), write(), malloc(), and free(). I believe >that inspection of the source code would reveal several more! > >___ >questions mailing list >questions@lists.ntp.org >https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions > > ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
