Re: [ntp:questions] A new toy?

[E-Mail Sent to this address will be added to the BlackLists]

Rick Jones wrote:
> smartertechnology.com/c/a/Technology-For-Change/Smarter-Atomic-Clock-on-a-Chip-Debuts/

At a grand and a half for a time and frequency source,
 with specs similar to that of a rubidium frequency standard,
 I'm sure it would likely be a nice basis for a NTP server.

 However at one hundredth the cost, GPS chips are a bit cheaper.

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Re: [ntp:questions] orphan mode and layered redundancy

[Florin Andrei]

I ended up doing this:

On the local NTP servers A ... F:

###
restrict default kod nomodify notrap nopeer noquery
restrict 127.0.0.1

restrict  bunch mask 255.255.0.0 nomodify notrap
restrict  ofmask 255.255.0.0 nomodify notrap
restrict  internal  mask 255.255.255.0 nomodify notrap
restrict  networks  mask 255.255.255.0 nomodify notrap

pool us.pool.ntp.org iburst preempt prefer

peer A iburst
peer B iburst
peer C iburst
peer D iburst
peer E iburst
peer F iburst

tos orphan 10

driftfile /var/lib/ntp/drift
###

On the cluster members X ... Z:

###
server A iburst prefer
server B iburst prefer
server C iburst prefer
server D iburst prefer
server E iburst prefer
server F iburst prefer

peer X iburst
peer Y iburst
peer Z iburst

tos orphan 12

restrict A nomodify notrap nopeer noquery
restrict B nomodify notrap nopeer noquery
restrict C nomodify notrap nopeer noquery
restrict D nomodify notrap nopeer noquery
restrict E nomodify notrap nopeer noquery
restrict F nomodify notrap nopeer noquery

restrict X nomodify notrap
restrict Y nomodify notrap
restrict Z nomodify notrap

restrict 127.0.0.1

restrict default ignore

driftfile /var/lib/ntp/drift
###

The stratums for the tos orphan were chosen kind of arbitrarily.

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Florin Andrei
http://florin.myip.org/
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Re: [ntp:questions] Something else to play with.

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Edward T wrote:
> kbv wrote:
>> A tiny GPSDO (10MHz), with NMEA and 1PPS output too.
>> http://www.mtronpti.com/pdf/M9107_Manual.pdf

> Where can I buy it?  What does it cost?

I would guess this is a good place to start?



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Re: [ntp:questions] Something else to play with.

[Rick Jones]

Mischanko, Edward T  wrote:
> Where can I buy it?  What does it cost?

Presumably http://www.mtronpti.com/ would give one the answer.
Somewhere on their site - even if it is to call one of their sales
locations.

rick jones

> -Original Message-
> From: questions-bounces+edward.mischanko=arcelormittal@lists.ntp.org
> [mailto:questions-bounces+edward.mischanko=arcelormittal@lists.ntp.o
> rg] On Behalf Of kbv
> Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 2:22 AM
> To: questions@lists.ntp.org
> Subject: Something else to play with.

> A tiny GPSDO (10MHz), with NMEA and 1PPS output too.

> http://www.mtronpti.com/pdf/M9107_Manual.pdf

> Dave.

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-- 
The computing industry isn't as much a game of "Follow The Leader" as
it is one of "Ring Around the Rosy" or perhaps "Duck Duck Goose." 
- Rick Jones
these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)
feel free to post, OR email to rick.jones2 in hp.com but NOT BOTH...

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[ntp:questions] Failure of NIST Time Servers

[jlevine]

The primary and backup ACTS servers that are used to synchronize the
NIST
Internet time servers to the atomic clock ensemble in Boulder failed
on Wednesday 24 May at about 1900 UTC (1300 MDT). The failure
affected
11 of the 35 NIST Internet time servers, and the time transmitted by
the affected servers was wrong by up to 680 seconds. In most cases,
the incorrect time was accompanied by the unhealthy indicator, but
some
of the systems transmitted the wrong time without this indication. The
other 24 servers were not affected. In some cases, one of the physical
servers at a site was affected while the others were not, so that
repeated requests to the public site address resulted in time messages
that differed by up to 680 seconds.

The ACTS servers have been fully repaired as of 27 May, 1800 UTC (1200
MDT),
and all of the servers should be resynchronized within a few hours.
There
may be a transient error of up to 10 milliseconds during this period.

I apologize for this failure, and I regret the problems and
inconvenience
that have resulted.

Judah Levine
jlev...@boulder.nist.gov

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Re: [ntp:questions] orphan mode

[fealsop]

On May 19, 1:30 pm, Steve Kostecke  wrote:
> On 2011-05-17, Frank Alsop  wrote:
>
> >    We have a relatively small network and are trying to use ntp
> > peering andorphanmodeand I have a couple of questions.  I have read
> > the info athttp://www.eecis.udel.edu/~mills/ntp/html/orphan.html
>
> That is the documentation for the current ntp-dev release.
>
> Please use the documentation shipped with your version of NTP or the
> documentation archived athttp://doc.ntp.org/4.2.4
>
> > but I am having trouble figuring out the correct "tosorphan" statement we
> > should use.
>
> > We have a time source at stratum 1.
> > We have 4 "peers" at stratum 2
> > We have multiple nodes at stratum 3
> > We have multiple nodes at stratum 4
>
> > So, in our ntp.conf file for the 4 stratum 2 "peered" nodes, we have
> > "tosorphan4".  At the website referred to above, we could infer that
> > we need to use "tosorphan5".  What stratum should we use in our
> >orphanstatement?
>
> 5 is the defaultorphanstratum. Use at least that (i.e. >= 5).
>
> > Also, we are using 4.2.4p7.  At the following website,
> > you could infer that we need a newer rev of ntp.
> >http://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Support/OrphanMode
>
> > This page seems to indicate we need at least 4.2.5p101, but at least
> > to me, isn't perfectly clear.
>
> The current stable release is NTP-4.2.6p3 and you are using NTP-4.2.4p7.
> On the surface it does not look like there's much difference between
> these two versions. But there is; substantial changes were made in the
> 4.2.5* development series.
>
> Here's how you should be reading these versions:
>
> NTP-4.2.4p7 == NTP-4 v2.4.7
>
> NTP-4.2.6p3 == NTP-4 v2.6.3
>
> If you want to useOrphanModeyou should upgrade to the current stable
> release.
>
> --
> Steve Kostecke 
> NTP Public Services Project -http://support.ntp.org/

Thanks, I am recommending to our group to update to ntp 4.2.6p3.
However, I am getting some pushback.  My interpretation of the on-line
material and backed up by your response is that 4.2.4p7 doesn't fully
support orphan mode.  I have seen trouble with ntp synch when we
reboot our system.  We have 4 peers synching to a GPS timesource and
sometimes - rarely - on a reboot, the 4 peers never re-synch.  A
follow up reboot usually fixes it.  However, I don't believe orphan
mode comes into play as long as we have GPS - correct?

Reboots are less reliable if the GPS time source is unavailable.  I
attribute this to the contribution of "tos orphan 4".  I interpret the
on-line documentation taken together with your response to mean that
we have a problem with this "tos orphan 4" statement.  The online
documentation says to set the orphan "greater than any anticipated
stratum that might occur with configured Internet time servers" to
mean that if we, for instance, have servers at stratum 5, we should
set to (at a minimum) "tos orphan 6", and we we have servers at 6,
then set to 7, etc.  However, others interpret the documention to mean
that we only have to set the "tos orphan" to a higher stratum than the
stratum in which we have the "tos orphan 4" statement.  So, the "tos
orphan" statement in our case is at stratum 2, so their opinion is
that we only need to be higher than 2.

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Re: [ntp:questions] Help with NMEA driver

[Terje Mathisen]

Mischanko, Edward T wrote:

I tried this:

server 127.127.20.1 mode 18 minpoll 4 prefer

Mode 18 didn't want to work, but mode 16 does work.  What am I doing
wrong?  I verified that the GPS is sending $GPGGA sentences at 9600
baud.  Should I try mode 2 at 4800 baud?  I am using a Sure GPS on a
Windows XP machine, but that shouldn't be a factor?


If mode 16 works, then you do have 9600 baud, and that is of course the 
default for the Sure evaluation unit.


I assume you are using the serial port and not the USB?

Email me directly if you want a copy of the program I wrote to program 
the unit!


Terje
--
- 
"almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"

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Re: [ntp:questions] Help with NMEA driver

[unruh]

On 2011-05-27, Mischanko, Edward T  wrote:
> Dave
>
> Several sentences are being sent and I currently have no way of disabling the 
> unused ones.  I am trying to use $GPGGA because on this GPS it is supposed to 
> be closest to the PPS pulse.  I am using ntp-dev-4.2.7p171

Why do you have no way of disableing them. The Sure packet commands have
been published.
EG
http://www.rigacci.org/wiki/lib/exe/fetch.php/doc/appunti/hardware/gps/mtk_packet_user_manual.pdf


>  
> Thanks,
> Ed
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Dave Hart [mailto:daveh...@gmail.com] 
> Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 4:58 AM
> To: Mischanko, Edward T
> Cc: questions@lists.ntp.org
> Subject: Re: Help with NMEA driver
>
> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 05:10 UTC, Mischanko, Edward T
> wrote:
>> I tried this:
>>
>> server 127.127.20.1 mode 18 minpoll 4 prefer
>>
>> Mode 18 didn't want to work, but mode 16 does work. ?What am I doing
>> wrong? ?I verified that the GPS is sending $GPGGA sentences at 9600
>> baud. ?Should I try mode 2 at 4800 baud? ?I am using a Sure GPS on a
>> Windows XP machine, but that shouldn't be a factor?
>
> What version of ntpd are you using?
>
> Is your GPS sending only $GPGGA, or are there several sentences being
> sent each second?
>
> Cheers,
> Dave Hart

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Re: [ntp:questions] Help with NMEA driver

[David Lord]

Mischanko, Edward T wrote:

I tried this:

server 127.127.20.1 mode 18 minpoll 4 prefer

Mode 18 didn't want to work, but mode 16 does work.  What am I doing
wrong?  I verified that the GPS is sending $GPGGA sentences at 9600
baud.  Should I try mode 2 at 4800 baud?  I am using a Sure GPS on a
Windows XP machine, but that shouldn't be a factor? 


I'm using NetBSD

There is no "mode" option with ntpd 4.2.0-r provided with
my old system. I've tried 4.2.6p2, 4.2.7p98 then 4.2.6p3
without problems other than my old ntpd.conf had some
typos that prevented the newer ntpd versions from starting.

From my current ntpd.conf used with 4.6.3p3:
# GPS Sure serial tty00 /dev/gps2
server 127.127.20.2 mode 18 prefer
fudge 127.127.20.2 time2 0.350 refid GPSb
#
# pps2 clock serial /dev/pps2 -> /dev/tty00
127.127.22.2
fudge 127.127.22.2 flag2 0 flag3 1 refid PPSb

###

From peer_summary offset is avg=000.0 rms=0.003 max=0.03
The max value is a blip each night when cron processes
system logs.

I also intend comparing with "flag3 0" kernel pps disabled


David

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Re: [ntp:questions] Help with NMEA driver

[Mischanko, Edward T]

I'm not in front of my machine as it's at home and I am at work so I could be 
running "p172", I just can't remember.

Ed

-Original Message-
From: questions-bounces+edward.mischanko=arcelormittal@lists.ntp.org 
[mailto:questions-bounces+edward.mischanko=arcelormittal@lists.ntp.org] On 
Behalf Of Mischanko, Edward T
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 5:08 AM
To: daveh...@gmail.com
Cc: questions@lists.ntp.org
Subject: Re: [ntp:questions] Help with NMEA driver

Dave

Several sentences are being sent and I currently have no way of disabling the 
unused ones.  I am trying to use $GPGGA because on this GPS it is supposed to 
be closest to the PPS pulse.  I am using ntp-dev-4.2.7p171
 
Thanks,
Ed

-Original Message-
From: Dave Hart [mailto:daveh...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 4:58 AM
To: Mischanko, Edward T
Cc: questions@lists.ntp.org
Subject: Re: [ntp:questions] Help with NMEA driver

On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 05:10 UTC, Mischanko, Edward T
 wrote:
> I tried this:
>
> server 127.127.20.1 mode 18 minpoll 4 prefer
>
> Mode 18 didn't want to work, but mode 16 does work.  What am I doing
> wrong?  I verified that the GPS is sending $GPGGA sentences at 9600
> baud.  Should I try mode 2 at 4800 baud?  I am using a Sure GPS on a
> Windows XP machine, but that shouldn't be a factor?

What version of ntpd are you using?

Is your GPS sending only $GPGGA, or are there several sentences being
sent each second?

Cheers,
Dave Hart
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Re: [ntp:questions] Help with NMEA driver

[Mischanko, Edward T]

Dave

Several sentences are being sent and I currently have no way of disabling the 
unused ones.  I am trying to use $GPGGA because on this GPS it is supposed to 
be closest to the PPS pulse.  I am using ntp-dev-4.2.7p171
 
Thanks,
Ed

-Original Message-
From: Dave Hart [mailto:daveh...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 4:58 AM
To: Mischanko, Edward T
Cc: questions@lists.ntp.org
Subject: Re: [ntp:questions] Help with NMEA driver

On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 05:10 UTC, Mischanko, Edward T
 wrote:
> I tried this:
>
> server 127.127.20.1 mode 18 minpoll 4 prefer
>
> Mode 18 didn't want to work, but mode 16 does work.  What am I doing
> wrong?  I verified that the GPS is sending $GPGGA sentences at 9600
> baud.  Should I try mode 2 at 4800 baud?  I am using a Sure GPS on a
> Windows XP machine, but that shouldn't be a factor?

What version of ntpd are you using?

Is your GPS sending only $GPGGA, or are there several sentences being
sent each second?

Cheers,
Dave Hart
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Re: [ntp:questions] Help with NMEA driver

[Dave Hart]

On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 05:10 UTC, Mischanko, Edward T
 wrote:
> I tried this:
>
> server 127.127.20.1 mode 18 minpoll 4 prefer
>
> Mode 18 didn't want to work, but mode 16 does work.  What am I doing
> wrong?  I verified that the GPS is sending $GPGGA sentences at 9600
> baud.  Should I try mode 2 at 4800 baud?  I am using a Sure GPS on a
> Windows XP machine, but that shouldn't be a factor?

What version of ntpd are you using?

Is your GPS sending only $GPGGA, or are there several sentences being
sent each second?

Cheers,
Dave Hart
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Re: [ntp:questions] Something else to play with.

[Mischanko, Edward T]

Where can I buy it?  What does it cost?

-Original Message-
From: questions-bounces+edward.mischanko=arcelormittal@lists.ntp.org
[mailto:questions-bounces+edward.mischanko=arcelormittal@lists.ntp.o
rg] On Behalf Of kbv
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 2:22 AM
To: questions@lists.ntp.org
Subject: [ntp:questions] Something else to play with.

A tiny GPSDO (10MHz), with NMEA and 1PPS output too.

http://www.mtronpti.com/pdf/M9107_Manual.pdf

Dave.

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[ntp:questions] Something else to play with.

[kbv]

A tiny GPSDO (10MHz), with NMEA and 1PPS output too.

http://www.mtronpti.com/pdf/M9107_Manual.pdf

Dave.

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