Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
David J Taylor wrote: John Hasler wrote: [] You may find Ntp running on one of their mail or DNS servers, though. Yes, my ISP has that, as well as official NTP servers, but at one stage they were not well maintained. In the UK and Europe, I can recommend servers at Edinburgh, Glasgow, Manchester Universities, and that at Trinity College, Dublin. Check the lists for access policies, of course. Your ISP may call the servers ntp0.isp.com ntp1.isp.com rather than a plain ntp. BTW: I tend not to trust servers which don't answer an ntpq -p server request, but that's probably just me! Cheers, David Outsourcing time services without having them meet the same service requirements for formally outsourcing *** ANYTHING *** is a no-no. So you dont take time from people you don't know and who's operations models don't meet those that you are required to operate under. That's it - no arguments are possible for this and the Audit Community will get formally dinged if they dont enforce this, especially in the EU where there are specific requirements for the operation of a time-stamping service of *** any *** type as a public offering, meaning NTP operators would be liable. And by the way - there may be criminal penalties for intentionally violating this as well in all of the EU member nations. Todd Glassey ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.12.90/2198 - Release Date: 06/23/09 17:54:00 ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
Danny Mayer wrote: tglassey wrote: Danny Mayer wrote: By geography, just like the zones that were mentioned in the post above. However, they are more fine-grained, especially when compared with large zones like us or eu. How are you going to know the geography. DNS clients does not supply that information even if they knew it and it's certainly not part of the DNS protocol. Danny isnt the location data potentially available as part of HOST listings and Location Records? What Host listings and Location Records? There are no such types available in DNS and even if they were they would not be local to the nameserver responding. In any case such records would be entirely voluntary, ie never added to a nameserver anywhere. Ah, let me be clearer - I didn't say lots of people were using it, and it is as well as defining Well Known Services. As it happens though there are some folks who do use these. Especially true with some of the military BF (battle field) process equipment. This makes no sense. The are no such types and so they cannot be used even if they existed. Furthermore the only entry in the request is the name for which an address is requested. The client does not even send the request directly to the authoritative server. It makes a request via a resolving server and that is the server that contacts the authoritative server. The authoritative server has no knowledge whatsoever not only of the client but what it intends to do with the returned addresses. Right - explain that to Vix will ya? - http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1876 As for Well Known Services I assume you are talking about SRV records You mean RFC2782 specfied SRV records - sure they work but so do the legacy Location Records and the WKS1035) can have this data in them as well. but those don't even come into the picture here. BF process equipment don't use DNS for this kind of stuff. Here is one of many papers on location specific information in DNS - https://www.cs.tcd.ie/~htewari/papers/acts99.pdf I suggest you pick up a good book on DNS so you can understand how this works. DNS and BIND by Cricket Liu is the usual recommendation... Thanks I have two copies of it (Editions 1 and 2). Todd Danny No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.12.93/2205 - Release Date: 06/27/09 05:53:00 ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
W. eWatson wrote: In some science working I'm doing, I need subsecond accuracy for timestamps. I was told the s/w in the Subject will do the trick. Maybe someone has used it before. I have little to go on, but installed it successfully yesterday--I think. I gave it the tick.usno.navy.mil NTP server name, and that finished the install. After a minute of looking at my clock, there was no change. It happened to be maybe 30 sec off according to my atomic clock. What mechanism do I need to use to truly get it started? I don't think what I did showed it was adjusting my clock at all. I gave it one NTP server, as above, but probably need more. It allows up to 9. I'm on the west coast, California. In addition to the pool.ntp.org servers there are the USTiming.ORG, Symmetricom, and Microsoft hosted NIST servers. try the San Jose (nist1-sj.ustiming.org) or LA (nist1-la.ustiming.org) sites we host for instance. There doesn't seem like much beginner support at their web site. None? See download page at http://www.meinberg.de/english/sw/ntp.htm No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.81/2189 - Release Date: 06/20/09 06:15:00 ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
Danny Mayer wrote: W. eWatson wrote: I would guess that possible server locations can be found in a list like http://support.microsoft.com/kb/262680, which shows NIST servers, and Level One Servers. It also shows level 2 stratum and incorrectly states that there are only 2 levels. It's worrying that they are publishing this in a KB article because even those servers change from time to time and they certainly should never be including the IP addresses. I'm not sure where they got the list but if they got it from us then they should have just posted a pointer to it since the stratum operators can change their information. Furthermore almost all stratum 1 and 2 servers that we list have restrictions on usage which are covered by the rules of engagement. Microsoft did not publish the limitations. Danny I would worry more about the fact that some of the S1 addresses are wrong since this list towards the bottom of the page is better than a decade old. Notice it still lits CertifiedTime.com as a carrier/provider? - Todd Glassey No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.12.90/2198 - Release Date: 06/23/09 17:54:00 ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
Danny Mayer wrote: Rob wrote: Rick Jones rick.jon...@hp.com wrote: Rob nom...@example.com wrote: This is no longer required. You can just use pool.ntp.org or 0.pool.ntp.org and the DNS servers for the pool will automatically determine which servers are closest to you. Is that by geography, hop count or ICMP echo RTT? By geography, just like the zones that were mentioned in the post above. However, they are more fine-grained, especially when compared with large zones like us or eu. How are you going to know the geography. DNS clients does not supply that information even if they knew it and it's certainly not part of the DNS protocol. Danny isnt the location data potentially available as part of HOST listings and Location Records? Todd Glassey Danny No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.12.92/2203 - Release Date: 06/26/09 05:53:00 ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
Danny Mayer wrote: tglassey wrote: Danny Mayer wrote: Rob wrote: Rick Jones rick.jon...@hp.com wrote: Rob nom...@example.com wrote: This is no longer required. You can just use pool.ntp.org or 0.pool.ntp.org and the DNS servers for the pool will automatically determine which servers are closest to you. Is that by geography, hop count or ICMP echo RTT? By geography, just like the zones that were mentioned in the post above. However, they are more fine-grained, especially when compared with large zones like us or eu. How are you going to know the geography. DNS clients does not supply that information even if they knew it and it's certainly not part of the DNS protocol. Danny isnt the location data potentially available as part of HOST listings and Location Records? What Host listings and Location Records? There are no such types available in DNS and even if they were they would not be local to the nameserver responding. In any case such records would be entirely voluntary, ie never added to a nameserver anywhere. Ah, let me be clearer - I didn't say lots of people were using it, and it is as well as defining Well Known Services. As it happens though there are some folks who do use these. Especially true with some of the military BF (battle field) process equipment. Todd Danny No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.12.93/2204 - Release Date: 06/26/09 18:00:00 ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
David J Taylor david-tay...@blueyonder.not-this-part.nor-this.co.uk.invalid writes: Richard B. Gilbert wrote: W. eWatson wrote: [] What sort of accuracy might I expect from my 4 servers, as mentioned above? Are those servers applicable to any site in the USA or Canada? [] Assuming reasonably good servers with low delay, I would expect to get +/- 10 milliseconds or better. The absolute best you will be likely to see occurs between 1AM and 6AM local time; the world (your part of it) is asleep, the net is unbusy. . . . +/- 10 milliseconds using what client OS? I ask as I haven't seen it that good here with Windows (which is what the OP has, I believe). With Linux you should get better than 1ms. With Windows from what I have read 10ms is achievable depending on your network loads, etc. David ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
Unruh wrote: [] With Linux you should get better than 1ms. With Windows from what I have read 10ms is achievable depending on your network loads, etc. I would be interested to know what configuration allows Windows to achieve +/- 10ms - it's something I've never seen here on cable modem connected systems, with just Internet sources, using the default polling intervals which allow as long as 1024s between polls. Do you happen to have a reference? On the other hand, using a LAN connection, and a 64s maximum polling interval, I regularly see +/- 1.5ms with Windows 2000, XP, Vista (*) and Windows 7. (*) not when I run a rather ill-behaved hardware and software combination, though. Cheers, David ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
tglassey wrote: Danny Mayer wrote: By geography, just like the zones that were mentioned in the post above. However, they are more fine-grained, especially when compared with large zones like us or eu. How are you going to know the geography. DNS clients does not supply that information even if they knew it and it's certainly not part of the DNS protocol. Danny isnt the location data potentially available as part of HOST listings and Location Records? What Host listings and Location Records? There are no such types available in DNS and even if they were they would not be local to the nameserver responding. In any case such records would be entirely voluntary, ie never added to a nameserver anywhere. Ah, let me be clearer - I didn't say lots of people were using it, and it is as well as defining Well Known Services. As it happens though there are some folks who do use these. Especially true with some of the military BF (battle field) process equipment. This makes no sense. The are no such types and so they cannot be used even if they existed. Furthermore the only entry in the request is the name for which an address is requested. The client does not even send the request directly to the authoritative server. It makes a request via a resolving server and that is the server that contacts the authoritative server. The authoritative server has no knowledge whatsoever not only of the client but what it intends to do with the returned addresses. As for Well Known Services I assume you are talking about SRV records but those don't even come into the picture here. BF process equipment don't use DNS for this kind of stuff. I suggest you pick up a good book on DNS so you can understand how this works. DNS and BIND by Cricket Liu is the usual recommendation but their are plenty of others. Danny -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
Todd Glassey CISM CIFI wrote: Danny Mayer wrote: tglassey wrote: Danny Mayer wrote: By geography, just like the zones that were mentioned in the post above. However, they are more fine-grained, especially when compared with large zones like us or eu. How are you going to know the geography. DNS clients does not supply that information even if they knew it and it's certainly not part of the DNS protocol. Danny isnt the location data potentially available as part of HOST listings and Location Records? What Host listings and Location Records? There are no such types available in DNS and even if they were they would not be local to the nameserver responding. In any case such records would be entirely voluntary, ie never added to a nameserver anywhere. Ah, let me be clearer - I didn't say lots of people were using it, and it is as well as defining Well Known Services. As it happens though there are some folks who do use these. Especially true with some of the military BF (battle field) process equipment. This makes no sense. The are no such types and so they cannot be used even if they existed. Furthermore the only entry in the request is the name for which an address is requested. The client does not even send the request directly to the authoritative server. It makes a request via a resolving server and that is the server that contacts the authoritative server. The authoritative server has no knowledge whatsoever not only of the client but what it intends to do with the returned addresses. Right - explain that to Vix will ya? - http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1876 The LOC RR is almost universal in being an ignored RR. The are so few people populating it that it may as well not exist. As for Well Known Services I assume you are talking about SRV records You mean RFC2782 specfied SRV records - sure they work but so do the legacy Location Records and the WKS1035) can have this data in them as well. I don't remember the last time I saw a usage of WKS. I believe that MIT may use it, but in HS (Hesiod) and not IN (Internet). but those don't even come into the picture here. BF process equipment don't use DNS for this kind of stuff. Here is one of many papers on location specific information in DNS - https://www.cs.tcd.ie/~htewari/papers/acts99.pdf Yes and it relies on DNS dynamic updates to the zone. Since so few DNS allow dynamic updates to their zones this is so limited as to be useless. BF equipment use the military version of GPS and the information is not stored in DNS but in highly secure systems. Danny -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
David J Taylor wrote: +/- 10 milliseconds using what client OS? I ask as I haven't seen it that good here with Windows (which is what the OP has, I believe). To give a fair test on Windows, you need to have it doing real work. It is possible that the better results come from testing on an idle system. ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
David J Taylor wrote: Richard B. Gilbert wrote: W. eWatson wrote: [] What sort of accuracy might I expect from my 4 servers, as mentioned above? Are those servers applicable to any site in the USA or Canada? [] Assuming reasonably good servers with low delay, I would expect to get +/- 10 milliseconds or better. The absolute best you will be likely to see occurs between 1AM and 6AM local time; the world (your part of it) is asleep, the net is unbusy. . . . +/- 10 milliseconds using what client OS? I ask as I haven't seen it that good here with Windows (which is what the OP has, I believe). David The last time I looked closely at Windows timekeeping, clock ticks were every 17 milliseconds or something like that. My desktop system is Windows XP and seems to be within a second or so. I have no requirement for better time than that. My Solaris systems, OTOH, run NTPD and keep time to within a +/- 10 milliseconds over the network. One has a GPS reference clock and its time seems to be within 100 usec or so. It MAY be far better than that but I lack the means to determine how much better. ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
Richard B. Gilbert wrote: [] The last time I looked closely at Windows timekeeping, clock ticks were every 17 milliseconds or something like that. My desktop system is Windows XP and seems to be within a second or so. I have no requirement for better time than that. My Solaris systems, OTOH, run NTPD and keep time to within a +/- 10 milliseconds over the network. One has a GPS reference clock and its time seems to be within 100 usec or so. It MAY be far better than that but I lack the means to determine how much better. Thanks for clarifying that, Richard. I was concerned that the OP might have thought that +/-10ms was easily achievable with Windows over the Internet. BTW: Windows Vista and Windows 7 now have clocks running at a 1KHz rate, with a quantisation of less than 1 ms. My /best/ Windows/GPS PC keeps within about 200us, but it's rather temperature dependent. I use MRTG to monitor it: http://www.satsignal.eu/mrtg/feenix_ntp_2.html http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/NTPandMRTG.html Cheers, David ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
Rob wrote: Rick Jones rick.jon...@hp.com wrote: Rob nom...@example.com wrote: This is no longer required. You can just use pool.ntp.org or 0.pool.ntp.org and the DNS servers for the pool will automatically determine which servers are closest to you. Is that by geography, hop count or ICMP echo RTT? By geography, just like the zones that were mentioned in the post above. However, they are more fine-grained, especially when compared with large zones like us or eu. How are you going to know the geography. DNS clients does not supply that information even if they knew it and it's certainly not part of the DNS protocol. Danny -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
Richard B. Gilbert wrote: The last time I looked closely at Windows timekeeping, clock ticks were every 17 milliseconds or something like that. My desktop system is ntpd forces fast multimedia timers on, which takes it down to 1mz, although with a higher risk of lost ticks. Windows XP and seems to be within a second or so. I have no requirement for better time than that. ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
tglassey wrote: Danny Mayer wrote: Rob wrote: Rick Jones rick.jon...@hp.com wrote: Rob nom...@example.com wrote: This is no longer required. You can just use pool.ntp.org or 0.pool.ntp.org and the DNS servers for the pool will automatically determine which servers are closest to you. Is that by geography, hop count or ICMP echo RTT? By geography, just like the zones that were mentioned in the post above. However, they are more fine-grained, especially when compared with large zones like us or eu. How are you going to know the geography. DNS clients does not supply that information even if they knew it and it's certainly not part of the DNS protocol. Danny isnt the location data potentially available as part of HOST listings and Location Records? What Host listings and Location Records? There are no such types available in DNS and even if they were they would not be local to the nameserver responding. In any case such records would be entirely voluntary, ie never added to a nameserver anywhere. Danny -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
David Woolley wrote: Richard B. Gilbert wrote: The last time I looked closely at Windows timekeeping, clock ticks were every 17 milliseconds or something like that. My desktop system is ntpd forces fast multimedia timers on, which takes it down to 1mz, although with a higher risk of lost ticks. David, Forcing the multimedia timers on is actually an option in NTP for Windows, although it should normally be enabled. The timer is then 1KHz, as I'm sure you meant. Windows Vista and Windows 7 may run with the faster timer by default, which does appear to cause some problems. David ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
Back for a few words and questions. What is Restart used for? Why aren't Stop and Start sufficient? What sort of accuracy might I expect from my 4 servers, as mentioned above? Are those servers applicable to any site in the USA or Canada? I'm using Tiny Ben as suggested above to monitor the PC clock. I like it because it has a UTC option, but find it easier to bring up the NIST clock and check against Tiny Ben. The analog clock for Win somehow just doesn't make it easy to compare one against the other. Anyway, it's all going well here. Eventually, today possibly, I'll pick up the other thread that considered (started that way , anyway) Linux and Apple implementations. -- W. eWatson (121.015 Deg. W, 39.262 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std. time) Obz Site: 39° 15' 7 N, 121° 2' 32 W, 2700 feet Web Page: www.speckledwithstars.net/ ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
W. eWatson wrote: Back for a few words and questions. What is Restart used for? Why aren't Stop and Start sufficient? Restart (in the Services manager) is handy when you have just changed the config file and want to do a stop and an immediate start What sort of accuracy might I expect from my 4 servers, as mentioned above? Are those servers applicable to any site in the USA or Canada? With Internet servers on Windows I would expect around 100ms accuracy - perhaps better. That's an order of magnitude figure, though. Glad you like TinyBen - I haven't measured it but I would hope that the hands change within about 100ms of the computer clock changing. Cheers, David ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
David J Taylor wrote: W. eWatson wrote: Back for a few words and questions. What is Restart used for? Why aren't Stop and Start sufficient? Restart (in the Services manager) is handy when you have just changed the config file and want to do a stop and an immediate start What sort of accuracy might I expect from my 4 servers, as mentioned above? Are those servers applicable to any site in the USA or Canada? With Internet servers on Windows I would expect around 100ms accuracy - perhaps better. That's an order of magnitude figure, though. Glad you like TinyBen - I haven't measured it but I would hope that the hands change within about 100ms of the computer clock changing. Cheers, David Assuming reasonably good servers with low delay, I would expect to get +/- 10 milliseconds or better. The absolute best you will be likely to see occurs between 1AM and 6AM local time; the world (your part of it) is asleep, the net is unbusy. . . . ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
Richard B. Gilbert wrote: W. eWatson wrote: [] What sort of accuracy might I expect from my 4 servers, as mentioned above? Are those servers applicable to any site in the USA or Canada? [] Assuming reasonably good servers with low delay, I would expect to get +/- 10 milliseconds or better. The absolute best you will be likely to see occurs between 1AM and 6AM local time; the world (your part of it) is asleep, the net is unbusy. . . . +/- 10 milliseconds using what client OS? I ask as I haven't seen it that good here with Windows (which is what the OP has, I believe). David ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
John Hasler wrote: I wrote: You may find Ntp running on one of their mail or DNS servers, though. David writes: Yes, my ISP has that, as well as official NTP servers, but at one stage they were not well maintained. With the pool, there is really no reason to use an ISP's NTP servers anyway. My Debian Chrony package uses them by default, as does the Debian Ntp package. Some years back I had an ISP that ran a server that purported to be stratum two but was (inconsistently) five minutes slow. I don't know how they did that. My ISP's servers seemed to be synched from a continent away (based in Europe, using US servers), and had an asymmetrical path! In principle, though, it /might/ help to choose servers which are closer in connectivity than others - that's NTP connectivity of course. In practice, I tend to use two UK pool servers, and two University servers (Edinburgh and Manchester( which I have found to be reliable. These I have as a backup with minpoll=1024s. As I have two stratum-1 servers here as well, I would have to accept that four other servers could be said to be too many. http://www.satsignal.eu/mrtg/daily_ntp.html#Configuration Cheers, David ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
On 2009-06-24, David J Taylor david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote: BTW: I tend not to trust servers which don't answer an ntpq -p server request, but that's probably just me! Neither do I. But there are some people here who would disagree with us. -- Steve Kostecke koste...@ntp.org NTP Public Services Project - http://support.ntp.org/ ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
David Woolley writes: The reasons for using an ISP's and even more so for using a campus' is that they are very close in network terms and you avoid using external bandwidth. The real purpose of the stratum concept is to encourage this sort of hierarchy. Using your campus server is an excellent idea, but I can't tell people Call your ISP and get the address of their NTP server. Besides, the bandwidth is negligible by current standards and the ISPs provide lousy service. -- John Hasler j...@dhh.gt.org Dancing Horse Hill Elmwood, WI USA ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
John Hasler wrote: With the pool, there is really no reason to use an ISP's NTP servers anyway. My Debian Chrony package uses them by default, as does the Debian Ntp package. The reasons for using an ISP's and even more so for using a campus' is that they are very close in network terms and you avoid using external bandwidth. The real purpose of the stratum concept is to encourage this sort of hierarchy. ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
W. eWatson wrote: [] I set drift.conf as above for Win2000. server 0.us.pool.ntp.org preempt iburst but do not believe the PC clock is in synch with accurate time. After 30-60 seconds they looked 3 sec apart. The Meinberg package is based in NTP 4.2.4, and mau not support the preempt keyword. Try the following in your ntp.conf file: server 0.us.pool.ntp.org iburst server 1.us.pool.ntp.org iburst server 2.us.pool.ntp.org iburst server 3.us.pool.ntp.org iburst and then restart NTP using the Services Manager (in Administrative tools). Please report the output from running: ntpq -p from the command prompt. You should see a list of servers similar to those shown here: http://toi.iriti.cnr.it/xntpdoc/debug.html Cheers, David ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
David J Taylor wrote: W. eWatson wrote: [] I set drift.conf as above for Win2000. server 0.us.pool.ntp.org preempt iburst but do not believe the PC clock is in synch with accurate time. After 30-60 seconds they looked 3 sec apart. The Meinberg package is based in NTP 4.2.4, and mau not support the preempt keyword. Try the following in your ntp.conf file: server 0.us.pool.ntp.org iburst server 1.us.pool.ntp.org iburst server 2.us.pool.ntp.org iburst server 3.us.pool.ntp.org iburst Whether pool servers are being configured or a dedicated USNO server, is a question of policy, but should not make a difference for this problem. However, having a look at the contents of the OP's ntp.conf file shows an entry: # Use specific NTP servers server tick.usno.nav.mil iburst If you look at the spelling then you see there's a typo: tick.usno.nav.mil can not be resolved, this should read: tick.usno.navy.mil So the name of the upstream server is simply invalid, and thus ntpd can not sync to it. And, if you'd misspell the names of the pool servers, the pool server would not work, either. This also explains why ntpq -p prints No association ID's returned (as reported by the OP in an earlier post), and I'm sure if the OP had done as I earlier suggested and had had a look into the Windows application event log he would have seen an appropriate error message which leads into the right direction. Martin -- Martin Burnicki Meinberg Funkuhren Bad Pyrmont Germany ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
W. eWatson wrote: [] It looks like pulling the preempt, did the trick. It looks like the two sources, NTP and my Radio Shack atomic clock, are very close. Too bad one of them doesn't beep every five seconds. My simple analog clock doesn't beep, but it does step on the second: http://www.satsignal.eu/software/disk.html#TinyBen Is there a primer for NTP? Good question, I hope one of the documentation guys can help. I have a number of colleagues who are working with the same equipment and software, but are operaing with Linux or Apple. Does some implementation like Meinberg exist for them? Where would they find it? It's available for Linux and Apple - operating systems I am less familiar with. http://www.ntp.org/downloads.html Whether they have such user-friendly install routines I can't say for sure, but I don't think so. Cheers, David ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
W. eWatson wrote: Martin Burnicki wrote: David J Taylor wrote: W. eWatson wrote: [] I set drift.conf as above for Win2000. server 0.us.pool.ntp.org preempt iburst but do not believe the PC clock is in synch with accurate time. After 30-60 seconds they looked 3 sec apart. The Meinberg package is based in NTP 4.2.4, and mau not support the preempt keyword. Try the following in your ntp.conf file: server 0.us.pool.ntp.org iburst server 1.us.pool.ntp.org iburst server 2.us.pool.ntp.org iburst server 3.us.pool.ntp.org iburst Whether pool servers are being configured or a dedicated USNO server, is a question of policy, but should not make a difference for this problem. However, having a look at the contents of the OP's ntp.conf file shows an entry: # Use specific NTP servers server tick.usno.nav.mil iburst If you look at the spelling then you see there's a typo: tick.usno.nav.mil can not be resolved, this should read: tick.usno.navy.mil So the name of the upstream server is simply invalid, and thus ntpd can not sync to it. And, if you'd misspell the names of the pool servers, the pool server would not work, either. This also explains why ntpq -p prints No association ID's returned (as reported by the OP in an earlier post), and I'm sure if the OP had done as I earlier suggested and had had a look into the Windows application event log he would have seen an appropriate error message which leads into the right direction. Martin It looks like pulling the preempt, did the trick. It looks like the two sources, NTP and my Radio Shack atomic clock, are very close. Too bad one of them doesn't beep every five seconds. Hm, I doubt any preempt helps if the name of the upstream server is misspelled in the config file. On the other hand, I'm sure you also get it working as expected without preempt if you write the name of the upstream server correctly ;-) Is there a primer for NTP? I have a number of colleagues who are working with the same equipment and software, but are operaing with Linux or Apple. Does some implementation like Meinberg exist for them? Where would they find it? The required basic configuration is the same as for Windows. You need to end up with one or more lines like server hostname iburst in the ntp.conf file. Unfortunately different Linux distributions and distribution versions come with different ways to specify the upstream server(s). Under SuSE/openSUSE you can use the YaST tool to configure NTP. Other distros may provide specific ways to do so (e.g. under CentOS there's a file /etc/ntp/ntpservers which specified 3 centos pool servers by default. If you run a DHCP server then you can also let the DHCP server distribute the IP addresses of some NTP servers. Please note the DHCP clients shipped with Linux and not NTP add those entries to the ntp.conf file. AFAIK this does not work under Windows, and I don't know about Apple. Martin -- Martin Burnicki Meinberg Funkuhren Bad Pyrmont Germany ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
David J Taylor david-tay...@blueyonder.not-this-part.nor-this.co.uk.invalid wrote: Whether they have such user-friendly install routines I can't say for sure, but I don't think so. Of course they do. At least Linux does. The NTP package installation is nothing special, it is just one of the many packages that can be installed on the system. Often even is installed by default, so the end-user does not need to install it. In a modern distribution the configuration for the most common case (just setup a couple of server lines) is available in the usual control panel for system configuration. You can enter servernames, or possibly even say use servers from the pool. The only difficulty is that you can assume so little by just saying it is a Linux system because there are so many versions (distributions). ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
On 2009-06-23, W. eWatson notval...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Martin Burnicki wrote: [---=| Quote block shrinked by t-prot: 35 lines snipped |=---] http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html It looks like pulling the preempt, did the trick. It looks like the two sources, NTP and my Radio Shack atomic clock, are very close. Too bad one of them doesn't beep every five seconds. Two time sources is the worst possible NTP configuration you can use. Is there a primer for NTP? http://www.ntp.org/documentation.html http://support.ntp.org http://doc.ntp.org I have a number of colleagues who are working with the same equipment and software, but are operaing with Linux or Apple. Does some implementation like Meinberg exist for them? Meinberg has packaged the NTP Reference Implementation from http://www.ntp.org Where would they find it? If they are using an OS with a decent package management system they should be able to install NTP using those tools. Here are some, although certainly not all, specific URLs for pre-packaged versions of NTP: Debian: http://packages.debian.org/ntp Ubuntu: http://packages.ubuntu.com/ntp Slackware: http://packages.slackware.it/search.php?v=currentt=1q=ntp RPM based OSes (e.g. Fedora, Mandriva, Red Hat, Yellow Dog, etc.): http://rpmfind.net/linux/rpm2html/search.php?query=ntp FreeBSD: http://www.freshports.org/net/ntp/ http://www.freshports.org/net/ntp-devel/ OSX: open OSX's Date and Time system preferences (NTP is apparently pre-installed on OSX) The NTP Reference Implementation distribution is available as source code from: http://www.ntp.org/downloads.html http://support.ntp.org/download http://archive.ntp.org -- Steve Kostecke koste...@ntp.org NTP Public Services Project - http://support.ntp.org/ ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
Gene Miller wrote: On Jun 20, 1:42 pm, W. eWatson notval...@sbcglobal.net wrote: In some science working I'm doing, I need subsecond accuracy for timestamps. I was told the s/w in the Subject will do the trick. Maybe someone has used it before. I have little to go on, but installed it successfully yesterday--I think. I gave it the tick.usno.navy.mil NTP server name, and that finished the install. After a minute of looking at my clock, there was no change. It happened to be maybe 30 sec off according to my atomic clock. What mechanism do I need to use to truly get it started? I don't think what I did showed it was adjusting my clock at all. For Windows, the easiest way to start ntpd is to use the Meinberg NTP Time Server Monitor available at : http://www.meinberg.de/english/sw/time-server-monitor.htm Gene Miller Typing net start ntpd is too hard? the monitor is useful for other things. Danny -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
Rob wrote: David J Taylor david-tay...@blueyonder.not-this-part.nor-this.co.uk.invalid wrote: Whether they have such user-friendly install routines I can't say for sure, but I don't think so. Of course they do. At least Linux does. The NTP package installation is nothing special, it is just one of the many packages that can be installed on the system. Often even is installed by default, so the end-user does not need to install it. In a modern distribution the configuration for the most common case (just setup a couple of server lines) is available in the usual control panel for system configuration. You can enter servernames, or possibly even say use servers from the pool. The only difficulty is that you can assume so little by just saying it is a Linux system because there are so many versions (distributions). Have you tried the Windows/Meinberg installation? It includes configuring the pool server lines for the user's specified region. One which is pre-installed by default probably doesn't have the region optimisation. Good to hear that Linux has something, though. I must admit that a simple primer for Windows would be welcome, as I have seen NTP increasingly adopted by that community. Cheers, David ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
David writes: Have you tried the Windows/Meinberg installation? It includes configuring the pool server lines for the user's specified region. One which is pre-installed by default probably doesn't have the region optimisation. Yes, it may very well have that. It could either ask the user during installation or figure it out from the localization. Good to hear that Linux has something, though. Ntp has been included in all major distributions for many years. -- John Hasler j...@dhh.gt.org Dancing Horse Hill Elmwood, WI USA ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
David J Taylor david-tay...@blueyonder.not-this-part.nor-this.co.uk.invalid wrote: Have you tried the Windows/Meinberg installation? It includes configuring the pool server lines for the user's specified region. One which is pre-installed by default probably doesn't have the region optimisation. This is no longer required. You can just use pool.ntp.org or 0.pool.ntp.org and the DNS servers for the pool will automatically determine which servers are closest to you. ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
David J Taylor david-tay...@blueyonder.not-this-part.nor-this.co.uk.invalid wrote: When I used FreeBSD, I had to rebuild the kernel to get the PPS support. Not quite double-click and go! On Linux, and probably also FreeBSD, you can install the package gpsd alongside ntpd and have PPS support without rebuilding te kernel. Of course it will not be as good because it lives in a user process, but when the machine is not overloaded it works reasonably well. The configuration for this setup is quite simple, and an added bonus is that you can have other applications that get the GPS info. (like a tracker) ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
Steve Kostecke wrote: [] Anyone who wishes to write one is welcome to contribute it to our Quick Start Guides and Hints topic (aka page) at http://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Support/QuickStartIndex All that is necessary is for someone to step up to the plate and do the work instead of merely engaging in wishful speculation on Usenet. I wish I had the time, Steve, but I've already written up quite a lot about NTP on my Web site, including an NTP Monitor program, a leap-second trace utility, and a loopstats plotting program. http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/FreeBSD-GPS-PPS.htm http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/NTP-on-Windows-serial-port.html http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/NTPandMRTG.html http://www.satsignal.eu/software/net.htm#NTPmonitor Cheers, David ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
On 2009-06-23, David J Taylor david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote: Rob wrote: David J Taylor david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote: Whether they have such user-friendly install routines I can't say for sure, but I don't think so. Of course they do. At least Linux does. [snip] Have you tried the Windows/Meinberg installation? It includes configuring the pool server lines for the user's specified region. One which is pre-installed by default probably doesn't have the region optimisation. Good to hear that Linux has something, though. Linux is only a kernel. There are many OSes which use that kernel. I must admit that a simple primer for Windows would be welcome, as I have seen NTP increasingly adopted by that community. Anyone who wishes to write one is welcome to contribute it to our Quick Start Guides and Hints topic (aka page) at http://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Support/QuickStartIndex All that is necessary is for someone to step up to the plate and do the work instead of merely engaging in wishful speculation on Usenet. -- Steve Kostecke koste...@ntp.org NTP Public Services Project - http://support.ntp.org/ ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
Rob wrote: David J Taylor david-tay...@blueyonder.not-this-part.nor-this.co.uk.invalid wrote: Have you tried the Windows/Meinberg installation? It includes configuring the pool server lines for the user's specified region. One which is pre-installed by default probably doesn't have the region optimisation. This is no longer required. You can just use pool.ntp.org or 0.pool.ntp.org and the DNS servers for the pool will automatically determine which servers are closest to you. That's helpful, Rob, I didn't know that. Cheers, David ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
On 2009-06-23, Martin Burnicki martin.burni...@meinberg.de wrote: W. eWatson wrote: [---=| Quote block shrinked by t-prot: 39 lines snipped |=---] http://learn.to/quote If you run a DHCP server then you can also let the DHCP server distribute the IP addresses of some NTP servers. Please note the DHCP clients shipped with Linux and not NTP add those entries to the ntp.conf file. The dhcp client shipped with Debian updates ntp.conf.dhcp (rather than over write a configuration file) and the ntpd init script starts with ntp.conf.dhcp if it exits. Other Linux OSes may handle this in a different manner. -- Steve Kostecke koste...@ntp.org NTP Public Services Project - http://support.ntp.org/ ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
David J Taylor wrote: David Woolley wrote: David J Taylor wrote: It should have a few lines like: server 0.uk.pool.ntp.org iburst server 1.uk.pool.ntp.org iburst but you may have something different from uk depending what you asked for at installation time. You might also have problems if DNS was broken at the time you started the service. Yes, although I thought that some of the more recent NTPs retried from time to time. I'm not very clear on that. In Windows, the dependency for the NTP service is the TCP/IP Protocol Driver, and the IPSEC driver, which is the same as the DNS Client. No, it doesn't need IPSEC since it doesn't use it. If that's included in the dependency list then that's a mistake. It could depend on the DNS client but that's not a requirement. I disable mine. Danny -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
Rob nom...@example.com wrote: This is no longer required. You can just use pool.ntp.org or 0.pool.ntp.org and the DNS servers for the pool will automatically determine which servers are closest to you. Is that by geography, hop count or ICMP echo RTT? rick jones -- oxymoron n, commuter in a gas-guzzling luxury SUV with an American flag these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :) feel free to post, OR email to rick.jones2 in hp.com but NOT BOTH... ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
Rick Jones rick.jon...@hp.com wrote: Rob nom...@example.com wrote: This is no longer required. You can just use pool.ntp.org or 0.pool.ntp.org and the DNS servers for the pool will automatically determine which servers are closest to you. Is that by geography, hop count or ICMP echo RTT? By geography, just like the zones that were mentioned in the post above. However, they are more fine-grained, especially when compared with large zones like us or eu. (there have been experiments with other metrics like AS number) ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
David Woolley wrote: W. eWatson wrote: I would guess that possible server locations can be found in a list like http://support.microsoft.com/kb/262680, which shows NIST servers, and I wouldn't rely on anything from Microsoft. At best they are intended for w32time updating every few days. Level One Servers. The site refers to other lists, one from the Naval You haven't made a valid case for using stratum one servers. Start with the official list of stratum 2 ones, or use the pool, as others have suggested. However, first, if in an organisation, try: ntp.yourdomain, ntp1.yourdomain, ntp2.yourdomain Next, if you have a competent ISP, try: ntp.yourisp, ntp1.yourisp, ntp2.yourisp. ISP's often don't announce these, because their marketing people think it too boring and too scary for the average customer. And some, like Comcast, do not seem to have such a thing. I went so far as to ask customer service a few years ago and was told We don't have any! A quick check a couple of minutes ago returns unknown host ntp.comcast.net and suggests that they still don't have any. ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
John Hasler wrote: Richard B. Gilbert writes: And some, like Comcast, do not seem to have such a thing. I went so far as to ask customer service a few years ago and was told We don't have any! A quick check a couple of minutes ago returns unknown host ntp.comcast.net and suggests that they still don't have any. You may find Ntp running on one of their mail or DNS servers, though. I've found enough available and working servers to meet my needs. I'm not going to play blind man's buff trying to find a service that Comcast clearly does not intend to offer to the public. ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
W. eWatson wrote: I would guess that possible server locations can be found in a list like http://support.microsoft.com/kb/262680, which shows NIST servers, and Level One Servers. It also shows level 2 stratum and incorrectly states that there are only 2 levels. It's worrying that they are publishing this in a KB article because even those servers change from time to time and they certainly should never be including the IP addresses. I'm not sure where they got the list but if they got it from us then they should have just posted a pointer to it since the stratum operators can change their information. Furthermore almost all stratum 1 and 2 servers that we list have restrictions on usage which are covered by the rules of engagement. Microsoft did not publish the limitations. Danny -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
John Hasler wrote: [] You may find Ntp running on one of their mail or DNS servers, though. Yes, my ISP has that, as well as official NTP servers, but at one stage they were not well maintained. In the UK and Europe, I can recommend servers at Edinburgh, Glasgow, Manchester Universities, and that at Trinity College, Dublin. Check the lists for access policies, of course. Your ISP may call the servers ntp0.isp.com ntp1.isp.com rather than a plain ntp. BTW: I tend not to trust servers which don't answer an ntpq -p server request, but that's probably just me! Cheers, David ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
David Woolley wrote: David J Taylor wrote: It should have a few lines like: server 0.uk.pool.ntp.org iburst server 1.uk.pool.ntp.org iburst but you may have something different from uk depending what you asked for at installation time. You might also have problems if DNS was broken at the time you started the service. Yes, although I thought that some of the more recent NTPs retried from time to time. I'm not very clear on that. In Windows, the dependency for the NTP service is the TCP/IP Protocol Driver, and the IPSEC driver, which is the same as the DNS Client. Cheers, David ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
David J Taylor wrote: It should have a few lines like: server 0.uk.pool.ntp.org iburst server 1.uk.pool.ntp.org iburst but you may have something different from uk depending what you asked for at installation time. You might also have problems if DNS was broken at the time you started the service. ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
David Woolley wrote: W. eWatson wrote: In some science working I'm doing, I need subsecond accuracy for timestamps. I was told the s/w in the Subject will do the trick. Maybe It's not the Meinberg NTP Software it is the University of Delaware NTP software, more commonly known here as the reference implementation. Meinberg simply wrote a Windows installer for it and compiled it. (It used to be Dave Mills' NTP software, but the copyright was recently assigned.) Right. The installer just has been published to simplify installation under Windows, but provides binaries built from the official NTP sources. Hm, maybe we should make this more obvious on our download page. The NTP service is installed with a reasonable default configuration. However, the configuration settings can be modified during the installation, or afterwards by editing the ntp.conf file. someone has used it before. I have little to go on, but installed it successfully yesterday--I think. I gave it the tick.usno.navy.mil NTP Although it will work after a fashion, that server will be seriously overloaded. In a university, your first choice should be your campus servers, then the univerity's ISP's. You should not be using a stratum one server if you are leaf node. server name, and that finished the install. After a minute of looking at my clock, there was no change. It happened to be maybe 30 sec off according to my atomic clock. What mechanism do I need Make sure that you have the right timezone; ntpd will abort if the time is more than 1000 seconds out. (NTP itself users UTC, which will be converted to local time by your OS.) By default the NTP service is installed with the -g option, so if the initial time offset exceeds 1000 seconds this should be no problem. However, some people try to test whether NTP works by first starting the service, then changing the system time to some other time or even date, and then expecting the NTP service to step the clock back immediately. Of course this kind of testing is not reasonable and lets ntpd stop itself if the 1000 second offset is exceeded. to use to truly get it started? I don't think what I did showed it was adjusting my clock at all. If the NTP service encounters any problems then adequate messages are written to the Windows application event log. The Windows event viewer program can be used to see if there are any entries from the NTP program. There should be at least some startup messages. Generally at this stage you need to run ntpq and use its peers sub-command, then its assoc sub-command and finally run rv for each association id (in your case just one) in the assoc output. Post the results here. I gave it one NTP server, as above, but probably need more. It allows up to 9. I'm on the west coast, California. That would be an installer restriction. If you manually configure it, you can have more, although there is a limit to the number of good ones that it will actually use. Four is a recommended number. Less compromise the fault tolerance. So if 9 are possible, and 4 recommended, that should be OK. However, if No associaton ID's returned is printed then this looks like a general problem, and it should not matter if 4 server or only 1 server has been configured (unless that one server is offline). There doesn't seem like much beginner support at their web site. None? See download page at http://www.meinberg.de/english/sw/ntp.htm The primary documentation is at http://www.ntp.org/, although that may reference the development version. The installer really ought to have installed a directory full of html documentation, as the policy is that you use the documentation that accompanies the executable. As David J. Taylor has already mentioned the HTML docs corresponding to the NTP version are included. There's even an entry for the docs in the Windows Start ... menu. Martin -- Martin Burnicki Meinberg Funkuhren Bad Pyrmont Germany ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
It's been a busy weekend, and I'm getting a bit more time for this. I worked my way down Program Files to the NTP folder and found two conf files. The general conf file shows: =start # NTP Network Time Protocol # ATTENTION : *You have to restart the NTP service when you change this file to activate the changes* # PLEASE CHECK THIS FILE CAREFULLY AND MODIFY IT IF REQUIRED # Configuration File created by Windows Binary Distribution Installer Rev.: 1.25 mbg # please check http://www.ntp.org for additional documentation and background information # Use drift file driftfile C:\Program Files\NTP\etc\ntp.drift # your local system clock, could be used as a backup # (this is only useful if you need to distribute time no matter how good or bad it is) #server 127.127.1.0 # but it should operate at a high stratum level to let the clients know and force them to # use any other timesource they may have. #fudge 127.127.1.0 stratum 12 # Use specific NTP servers server tick.usno.nav.mil iburst # End of generated ntp.conf --- Please edit this to suite your needs ===end The ntp.drift file shows 0.000 I would guess that possible server locations can be found in a list like http://support.microsoft.com/kb/262680, which shows NIST servers, and Level One Servers. The site refers to other lists, one from the Naval Obs. I would think I need to choose several either around the west coast or around North America to add to the config file above. Do I need to include iburst or some other parameter? I see on the Start-Meinberg Win200 menu a number of choices. Documentation Installation Service Control Restart Start Stop Edit NTP Config Web Links Meinberg downloads Server Project Official Site Publc Service Project Quick NTP Status I presume the Service Control and Quick Status contain all the commands available. I tried comparing my atomic clock (Radio Shack) to the Win2000 clock, but it's a bit tricky glancing from one to the other. There may be a 2 sec difference. It's been about 45 hours since I started the service and I expect about 4 to 4.2 seconds drift from my PC clock in that period. -- W. eWatson (121.015 Deg. W, 39.262 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std. time) Obz Site: 39° 15' 7 N, 121° 2' 32 W, 2700 feet Web Page: www.speckledwithstars.net/ ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
W. eWatson wrote: # Use specific NTP servers server tick.usno.nav.mil iburst I would guess that possible server locations can be found in a list like http://support.microsoft.com/kb/262680, You might be better off using http://www.pool.ntp.org/en/use.html e.g. server 0.us.pool.ntp.org preempt iburst server 1.us.pool.ntp.org preempt iburst server 2.us.pool.ntp.org preempt iburst server 3.us.pool.ntp.org preempt iburst If you have at least at least ntp-dev-4.2.5p86 e.g. Message-ID: 0fd7b5c0-3f34-4dc7-8d2c-fce10cf4a...@h28g2000yqd.googlegroups.com http://davehart.net/ntp/win/x86/ntp-4.2.5p180-win-x86-bin.zip you can use the pool commands. e.g. pool 0.us.pool.ntp.org preempt iburst pool 1.us.pool.ntp.org preempt iburst pool 2.us.pool.ntp.org preempt iburst pool 3.us.pool.ntp.org preempt iburst which shows NIST servers, and Level One Servers. The site refers to other lists, one from the Naval Obs. I would think I need to choose several either around the west coast or around North America to add to the config file above. Do I need to include iburst or some other parameter? Some of those are only supposed to be used with permission, by Strat 1 or 2 servers. e.g. http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/ntp.html All of the following stratum 1 NTP servers are open to stratum 2 servers within the same time zone and to others by arrangement. Individual users should consult the public list of stratum 2 servers. # tick.usno.navy.mil Location: Time Service Dept., U.S. Naval Observatory, Washington, DC Synchronization: NTP V4 primary (USNO Master Clock H-masers) Access Policy: open access for MIL, GOV, and other stratum 2 servers. Choose only one of tick/tock/ntp2.usno.navy.mil. -- E-Mail Sent to this address blackl...@anitech-systems.com will be added to the BlackLists. ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
E-Mail Sent to this address will be added to the BlackLists wrote: W. eWatson wrote: # Use specific NTP servers server tick.usno.nav.mil iburst I would guess that possible server locations can be found in a list like http://support.microsoft.com/kb/262680, You might be better off using http://www.pool.ntp.org/en/use.html e.g. server 0.us.pool.ntp.org preempt iburst server 1.us.pool.ntp.org preempt iburst server 2.us.pool.ntp.org preempt iburst server 3.us.pool.ntp.org preempt iburst If you have at least at least ntp-dev-4.2.5p86 e.g. Message-ID: 0fd7b5c0-3f34-4dc7-8d2c-fce10cf4a...@h28g2000yqd.googlegroups.com http://davehart.net/ntp/win/x86/ntp-4.2.5p180-win-x86-bin.zip you can use the pool commands. e.g. pool 0.us.pool.ntp.org preempt iburst pool 1.us.pool.ntp.org preempt iburst pool 2.us.pool.ntp.org preempt iburst pool 3.us.pool.ntp.org preempt iburst which shows NIST servers, and Level One Servers. The site refers to other lists, one from the Naval Obs. I would think I need to choose several either around the west coast or around North America to add to the config file above. Do I need to include iburst or some other parameter? Some of those are only supposed to be used with permission, by Strat 1 or 2 servers. e.g. http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/ntp.html All of the following stratum 1 NTP servers are open to stratum 2 servers within the same time zone and to others by arrangement. Individual users should consult the public list of stratum 2 servers. # tick.usno.navy.mil Location: Time Service Dept., U.S. Naval Observatory, Washington, DC Synchronization: NTP V4 primary (USNO Master Clock H-masers) Access Policy: open access for MIL, GOV, and other stratum 2 servers. Choose only one of tick/tock/ntp2.usno.navy.mil. I set drift.conf as above for Win2000. server 0.us.pool.ntp.org preempt iburst but do not believe the PC clock is in synch with accurate time. After 30-60 seconds they looked 3 sec apart. -- W. eWatson (121.015 Deg. W, 39.262 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std. time) Obz Site: 39° 15' 7 N, 121° 2' 32 W, 2700 feet Web Page: www.speckledwithstars.net/ ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
On Jun 20, 1:42 pm, W. eWatson notval...@sbcglobal.net wrote: In some science working I'm doing, I need subsecond accuracy for timestamps. I was told the s/w in the Subject will do the trick. Maybe someone has used it before. I have little to go on, but installed it successfully yesterday--I think. I gave it the tick.usno.navy.mil NTP server name, and that finished the install. After a minute of looking at my clock, there was no change. It happened to be maybe 30 sec off according to my atomic clock. What mechanism do I need to use to truly get it started? I don't think what I did showed it was adjusting my clock at all. For Windows, the easiest way to start ntpd is to use the Meinberg NTP Time Server Monitor available at : http://www.meinberg.de/english/sw/time-server-monitor.htm Gene Miller ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
I've read the above. I'm using Win2000. My use is personal. When I checked the task mgr, I found ntpd.exe is running. Meinberg was installed, and available through Start-Programs. I ran the status program from there and it opened a DOS window that was running ntpq -p. It showed No association ID's returned. -- W. eWatson (121.015 Deg. W, 39.262 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std. time) Obz Site: 39° 15' 7 N, 121° 2' 32 W, 2700 feet Web Page: www.speckledwithstars.net/ ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
Richard B. Gilbert wrote: [] I'd guess that someone installed NTPD and neglected to configure it. I've never rung NTPD on Windows so I'm hazy on the details of configuring it on Windows. The Meinberg installation includes configuration by default, using some pool servers. Most other systems have a file somewhere call ntp.conf which contains four or more server statements; each one pointing to a server to be used by ntpd. These statements look like server server_name.domain iburst server another_name.domain iburst server IP address iburst server . . . . It's customary to specify four, five, or seven servers. Ten is the absolute maximum. Four should be sufficient for most. iburst tells ntpd to send the first eight queries at intervals of two seconds. After the initial burst ntpd will query the server at intervals ranging from 64 seconds to 1024 seconds depending on how long it has been running and the quality of the time it is getting. To expand on Richard's commenets, look for the file: C:\Program Files\NTP\etc\ntp.conf It should have a few lines like: server 0.uk.pool.ntp.org iburst server 1.uk.pool.ntp.org iburst but you may have something different from uk depending what you asked for at installation time. Cheers, David ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
[ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
In some science working I'm doing, I need subsecond accuracy for timestamps. I was told the s/w in the Subject will do the trick. Maybe someone has used it before. I have little to go on, but installed it successfully yesterday--I think. I gave it the tick.usno.navy.mil NTP server name, and that finished the install. After a minute of looking at my clock, there was no change. It happened to be maybe 30 sec off according to my atomic clock. What mechanism do I need to use to truly get it started? I don't think what I did showed it was adjusting my clock at all. I gave it one NTP server, as above, but probably need more. It allows up to 9. I'm on the west coast, California. There doesn't seem like much beginner support at their web site. None? See download page at http://www.meinberg.de/english/sw/ntp.htm -- W. eWatson (121.015 Deg. W, 39.262 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std. time) Obz Site: 39° 15' 7 N, 121° 2' 32 W, 2700 feet Web Page: www.speckledwithstars.net/ ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
W. eWatson wrote: In some science working I'm doing, I need subsecond accuracy for timestamps. I was told the s/w in the Subject will do the trick. Maybe someone has used it before. I have little to go on, but installed it successfully yesterday--I think. I gave it the tick.usno.navy.mil NTP server name, and that finished the install. After a minute of looking at my clock, there was no change. It happened to be maybe 30 sec off according to my atomic clock. What mechanism do I need to use to truly get it started? I don't think what I did showed it was adjusting my clock at all. I gave it one NTP server, as above, but probably need more. It allows up to 9. I'm on the west coast, California. There doesn't seem like much beginner support at their web site. None? See download page at http://www.meinberg.de/english/sw/ntp.htm I'm sure you'll get more comprehensive replies, but as a guide with a good Internet feed, figuring 4-5 servers, and using Windows 2000 or XP you should get within about 100ms. By making your own stratum-1 server with a $100 GPS puck such as the Garmin GPS 18x LVC and a little soldering, you can get within 0.5 milliseconds using Windows - see the top two plots here: http://www.satsignal.eu/mrtg/daily_ntp.html You just need the puck to see about half the southern sky. With other operating systems, results may be better. At the command prompt, enter the command ntpq -p and post the results here for people to help you. You may need to add ntpd.exe to your programs allowed through your firewall. Cheers, David ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
W. eWatson wrote: In some science working I'm doing, I need subsecond accuracy for timestamps. I was told the s/w in the Subject will do the trick. Maybe It's not the Meinberg NTP Software it is the University of Delaware NTP software, more commonly known here as the reference implementation. Meinberg simply wrote a Windows installer for it and compiled it. (It used to be Dave Mills' NTP software, but the copyright was recently assigned.) someone has used it before. I have little to go on, but installed it successfully yesterday--I think. I gave it the tick.usno.navy.mil NTP Although it will work after a fashion, that server will be seriously overloaded. In a university, your first choice should be your campus servers, then the univerity's ISP's. You should not be using a stratum one server if you are leaf node. server name, and that finished the install. After a minute of looking at my clock, there was no change. It happened to be maybe 30 sec off according to my atomic clock. What mechanism do I need Make sure that you have the right timezone; ntpd will abort if the time is more than 1000 seconds out. (NTP itself users UTC, which will be converted to local time by your OS.) to use to truly get it started? I don't think what I did showed it was adjusting my clock at all. Generally at this stage you need to run ntpq and use its peers sub-command, then its assoc sub-command and finally run rv for each association id (in your case just one) in the assoc output. Post the results here. I gave it one NTP server, as above, but probably need more. It allows up to 9. I'm on the west coast, California. That would be an installer restriction. If you manually configure it, you can have more, although there is a limit to the number of good ones that it will actually use. Four is a recommended number. Less compromise the fault tolerance. There doesn't seem like much beginner support at their web site. None? See download page at http://www.meinberg.de/english/sw/ntp.htm The primary documentation is at http://www.ntp.org/, although that may reference the development version. The installer really ought to have installed a directory full of html documentation, as the policy is that you use the documentation that accompanies the executable. ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
David Woolley wrote: [] The primary documentation is at http://www.ntp.org/, although that may reference the development version. The installer really ought to have installed a directory full of html documentation, as the policy is that you use the documentation that accompanies the executable. It does - typically in: C:\Program Files\NTP\doc\HTML\index.html Cheers, David ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Meinberg NTP Software--Time Accuracy
On 2009-06-20, David Woolley da...@ex.djwhome.demon.co.uk.invalid wrote: The primary documentation is at http://www.ntp.org/, although that may reference the development version. http://www.ntp.org/documentation.html General Reference * Official NTP Documentation - This is the primary body of NTP documentation; it includes the current NTP-Dev Documentation. * NTP Documentation Archive - Repository of Official Distribution Documentation for stable releases of The NTP Reference Implementation. The installer really ought to have installed a directory full of html documentation, as the policy is that you use the documentation that accompanies the executable. Documentation for Stable Releases of The NTP Reference Implementation is archived at http://doc.ntp.org/ -- Steve Kostecke koste...@ntp.org NTP Public Services Project - http://support.ntp.org/ ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
