Re: [R] How to search for packages - wrap up!
--- hadley wickham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > A new user will come to the R homepage, go to CRAN > via the link under > > download and from there see Packages and then be > swamped by the huge > > number available. Having Task Views as a link on > the R homepage would > > make these more visible. > > I would think that a new user would see the download > heading, then > think - I don't want to download a cran (whatever > that is) I want to > downloaded R, and then continue to be confused for > another 10 minutes > until they ask their colleague down the hall for the > sequence of 5 > (cran -> mirror -> windows -> base -> > R-2.6.1-win32.exe) clicks that > they need to find the installer! I think it took me longer but I found it without the help of a colleague since they were all SPSS or (gasp) Excel users It is rather confusing. > > It would be nice to automatically provide a link to > the current > version of R for the platform that the user is > browsing from (see e.g. > getfirefox.com). Automatic selection of a mirror > would be just as > desirable, although I still maintain it would be > better to dump the > mirror system entirely and move to a content > delivery network (CDN). > > Hadley > > -- > http://had.co.nz/ > > __ > R-help@r-project.org mailing list > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > PLEASE do read the posting guide > http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, > reproducible code. > Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Re: [R] How to search for packages - wrap up!
What about doing more to promote the R Wiki? Someone complained to me that the R Wiki is not very useful. However, I think with the right encouragement, it could grow like the regular Wiki, which now has over 9 million entries in over 250 languages. I think the R Wiki is ideal for things like the task views. On the R Wiki, they would be more dynamic and less work for the R core team to maintain. To those concerned about any lack of quality this might entail, I would ask them to review how the standard Wiki is maintained: They have an editorial board (or whatever it's called) with standard procedures for refereeing disputes. They routine edit entries with comments like "needs references" or "This entry is in dispute" or "not balanced". I'm a novice with writing and editing Wiki entries. As my Wiki literacy improves, I may start posting questions to the R Wiki, inviting relevant package maintainers to edit my comments, clarifying how their function is similar to or different from a function in another package. If I don't get adequate replies from package maintainers, I may then ask R-help or R-SIG-x for clarification. Spencer hadley wickham wrote: >> A new user will come to the R homepage, go to CRAN via the link under >> download and from there see Packages and then be swamped by the huge >> number available. Having Task Views as a link on the R homepage would >> make these more visible. >> > > I would think that a new user would see the download heading, then > think - I don't want to download a cran (whatever that is) I want to > downloaded R, and then continue to be confused for another 10 minutes > until they ask their colleague down the hall for the sequence of 5 > (cran -> mirror -> windows -> base -> R-2.6.1-win32.exe) clicks that > they need to find the installer! > > It would be nice to automatically provide a link to the current > version of R for the platform that the user is browsing from (see e.g. > getfirefox.com). Automatic selection of a mirror would be just as > desirable, although I still maintain it would be better to dump the > mirror system entirely and move to a content delivery network (CDN). > > Hadley > > __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Re: [R] How to search for packages - wrap up!
> A new user will come to the R homepage, go to CRAN via the link under > download and from there see Packages and then be swamped by the huge > number available. Having Task Views as a link on the R homepage would > make these more visible. I would think that a new user would see the download heading, then think - I don't want to download a cran (whatever that is) I want to downloaded R, and then continue to be confused for another 10 minutes until they ask their colleague down the hall for the sequence of 5 (cran -> mirror -> windows -> base -> R-2.6.1-win32.exe) clicks that they need to find the installer! It would be nice to automatically provide a link to the current version of R for the platform that the user is browsing from (see e.g. getfirefox.com). Automatic selection of a mirror would be just as desirable, although I still maintain it would be better to dump the mirror system entirely and move to a content delivery network (CDN). Hadley -- http://had.co.nz/ __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Re: [R] How to search for packages - wrap up!
I'm not sure that this would make any difference to someone considering using R. Would they know what CRAN stands for? Probably not unless they've used CPAN or equivalent in the past. Would they know what a 'Task View' is? Again probably not as its not patently obvious what it is, it doesn't "click" (at least not to my mind if I take a step back from already knowing what a Task View is). I think the current set up with mirrors is fine, it only takes a few seconds to click on a mirror and find that it takes you to a page that isn't simply for downloading software. Discussions of how the R web-site can be improved/altered seem to crop up periodically on the list. At the end of the day someone (who?) has to make the changes to the site. R developers already sacrifice their own time to improving the software. If you want to see changes, then volunteer to (I presume) the R-core team and enter into dialogue with them. Neil On Feb 6, 2008 12:02 PM, Charilaos Skiadas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Feb 6, 2008, at 6:23 AM, Neil Shephard wrote: > > > Charilaos Skiadas-3 wrote: > >> > >> On Feb 5, 2008, at 10:37 AM, Monica Pisica wrote: > >> > >> But perhaps I am missing something very obvious? > > > > I thought the task views were located where they are (linked from > > the page > > that lists packages) as they summarise the available packages for > > the given > > topic. > > That would make sense, and brings up the other point, that the > package directory is nontrivial to find as well. I'm thinking here of > someone who has not used R yet, but is considering it. One approach > those people would take, it seems to me, is to go to the main page > and look around at the links to see if there is any information that > would help them decide if R is right for what they want it. They have > not heard of packages, and have no idea that a lot of the > functionality is in the packages. > > So they would look on the list on the left looking for something that > "clicks", and none of the items there would. If they eventually > decide to click on the CRAN link, they are now faced with a long > list of mirrors, and no further explanation of what is behind that. > If they have seen mirror systems elsewhere, they would immediately > come to the conclusion that this page will simply lead to downloading > the software, and dismiss it as not useful. > > > Just reading Gavin's reply, and he makes a good point about the > difficulties related to the CRAN master. But couldn't we simply have > the links to packages from the task views send someone through the > mirror list? I would imagine something like that should be doable. > > Or we could simply have the "Task Views" link on the main page send > you to a mirrors list, with perhaps a one-line explanation on the top > of why this part is necessary. But at least at that point the user > has selected "Task Views" and is more certain that they are on the > right track. Even better, this step could be even one step deeper, > after the user has selected which task view they want to see. > > > Neil > > Haris Skiadas > Department of Mathematics and Computer Science > Hanover College > > > > > -- "Do you really need to send me the email I just sent to you?" - Me Email - [EMAIL PROTECTED] / [EMAIL PROTECTED] Website - http://slack.ser.man.ac.uk/ Photos - http://www.flickr.com/photos/slackline/ __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Re: [R] How to search for packages - wrap up!
On Feb 6, 2008, at 6:23 AM, Neil Shephard wrote: > Charilaos Skiadas-3 wrote: >> >> On Feb 5, 2008, at 10:37 AM, Monica Pisica wrote: >> >> But perhaps I am missing something very obvious? > > I thought the task views were located where they are (linked from > the page > that lists packages) as they summarise the available packages for > the given > topic. That would make sense, and brings up the other point, that the package directory is nontrivial to find as well. I'm thinking here of someone who has not used R yet, but is considering it. One approach those people would take, it seems to me, is to go to the main page and look around at the links to see if there is any information that would help them decide if R is right for what they want it. They have not heard of packages, and have no idea that a lot of the functionality is in the packages. So they would look on the list on the left looking for something that "clicks", and none of the items there would. If they eventually decide to click on the CRAN link, they are now faced with a long list of mirrors, and no further explanation of what is behind that. If they have seen mirror systems elsewhere, they would immediately come to the conclusion that this page will simply lead to downloading the software, and dismiss it as not useful. Just reading Gavin's reply, and he makes a good point about the difficulties related to the CRAN master. But couldn't we simply have the links to packages from the task views send someone through the mirror list? I would imagine something like that should be doable. Or we could simply have the "Task Views" link on the main page send you to a mirrors list, with perhaps a one-line explanation on the top of why this part is necessary. But at least at that point the user has selected "Task Views" and is more certain that they are on the right track. Even better, this step could be even one step deeper, after the user has selected which task view they want to see. > Neil Haris Skiadas Department of Mathematics and Computer Science Hanover College __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Re: [R] How to search for packages - wrap up!
hits=-2.6 tests=BAYES_00 X-USF-Spam-Flag: NO On Wed, 2008-02-06 at 03:23 -0800, Neil Shephard wrote: > > > Charilaos Skiadas-3 wrote: > > > > On Feb 5, 2008, at 10:37 AM, Monica Pisica wrote: > > > > But perhaps I am missing something very obvious? > > > > > > I thought the task views were located where they are (linked from the page > that lists packages) as they summarise the available packages for the given > topic. > > Neil Originally, that might have been the thinking behind locating the link on CRAN and not the R homepage. Another reason might have been to keep the number of menu options on the R homepage to a manageable number. A new user will come to the R homepage, go to CRAN via the link under download and from there see Packages and then be swamped by the huge number available. Having Task Views as a link on the R homepage would make these more visible. However, getting this working so that users don't swamp the CRAN master will be interesting. The Task Views themselves could be on r-project.org but looking at the packages linked from the Task Views should be done on one of the CRAN mirrors and how that is arranged could be more hassle than it is worth, just to give Task Views higher visibility on R homepage. G -- %~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~% Dr. Gavin Simpson [t] +44 (0)20 7679 0522 ECRC, UCL Geography, [f] +44 (0)20 7679 0565 Pearson Building, [e] gavin.simpsonATNOSPAMucl.ac.uk Gower Street, London [w] http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucfagls/ UK. WC1E 6BT. [w] http://www.freshwaters.org.uk %~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~% __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Re: [R] How to search for packages - wrap up!
Charilaos Skiadas-3 wrote: > > On Feb 5, 2008, at 10:37 AM, Monica Pisica wrote: > > But perhaps I am missing something very obvious? > > I thought the task views were located where they are (linked from the page that lists packages) as they summarise the available packages for the given topic. Neil -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Re%3A-How-to-search-for-packages---wrap-up%21-tp15297545p15306481.html Sent from the R help mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Re: [R] How to search for packages - wrap up!
On Feb 5, 2008, at 10:37 AM, Monica Pisica wrote: > Hi everybody, > > > I have to recognize that my post certainly shows my lack of skills > in really navigating the R web page i am surprised that only > one or two persons wrote me about the "Task Views" - it is what i > was after - although maybe too general for my lazy taste - but hei > - it is there and certainly makes my life easier. So - Thank you > John and Gabor and Roger for pointing this out. I cannot believe > that i never discovered this by myself .. If anybody takes up > the challenge Roger set up i would love to see it ;-)) > I have to say that the Task Views are a tad harder to find than I would have expected. Namely, if someone goes to the main page: http://www.r-project.org/ shouldn't there be a direct link to the Task Views page? Currently you have to go through CRAN, but I would not think of going to the CRAN link under the "Download" section, if what I was looking for was Task Views. Task Views have nothing to do with "Download", and from a new/potential user's perspective they have nothing to do with CRAN either. But perhaps I am missing something very obvious? Haris Skiadas Department of Mathematics and Computer Science Hanover College __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Re: [R] How to search for packages - wrap up!
Hi everybody, I have to recognize that my post certainly shows my lack of skills in really navigating the R web page i am surprised that only one or two persons wrote me about the "Task Views" - it is what i was after - although maybe too general for my lazy taste - but hei - it is there and certainly makes my life easier. So - Thank you John and Gabor and Roger for pointing this out. I cannot believe that i never discovered this by myself .. If anybody takes up the challenge Roger set up i would love to see it ;-)) >If you have a little time and want >to really draw in the masses, try doing clickable image maps from the >Bioconductor pkgDepTools: >http://bioconductor.org/packages/2.1/bioc/html/pkgDepTools.html >because some of the unobtrusive short-name packages are key nodes in package >dependency graphs. The dependency trees are very illuminating. Automating the >updates would be positive. If you could also run against the Task View >listings, >which are readily parsable, that would be very helpful. Baron suggested this site: http://finzi.psych.upenn.edu/ Hadley started this site - http://crantastic.org - which is great - and I hope others will take some time to tag some of the packages. I was amazed to find out that there are well over 1200 different packages for R ;-) And as others pointed out - it will be a very nice addition to Task Views. Thanks all for your answers, Monica _ Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail®-get your "fix". __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
