Re: [R] Using R in a university course: dealing with proposal comments
>>> "Stas Kolenikov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 11/02/2008 18:54 >>>
> I would think the FDA regulations could go as far as
>specific SAS syntax, or at least to specify SAS PROCs to be used.
This is unnecessary caution. FDA (like the MHRA in the UK, where I come
from) should not endorse a single supplier, even by implication, and
certainly not in the regulations themselves.
The most you will get is examples in FDA-endorsed guidance documents
that happen to use a particular package.
Most regulatory agencies take the view that it is for the applicant to
demonstrate the validity of their methods; if they can do that, the
regulatory agencies pass the application. The only problem is that many
regulators are familiar with particular software, which then gets an
easier ride than "unfamiliar" applications. That tends to slow uptake of
new packages.
Steve E
***
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Re: [R] Using R in a university course: dealing with proposal comments
On 2/11/08, Paul Gilbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Stas Kolenikov wrote: > > ... > > Training researchers of tomorrow might be great, but ifyour students get > on > > the market in the end of the semester, they won't have the luxury of > waiting > > until R becomes THE package of choice. > > > Not being a teacher, I usually follow these discussions with a bit of > amusement and some befuddlement. We hire young people hoping they will > bring in bright new ideas from academia, and academics are training the > students based on what they think are the old things we use. > Fortunately, R is already one of the packages of choice many places. > > Another point that needs more emphasis is that R is actually a > programming language, like Matlab and and APL, so it really has more > general usefulness than "statistics packages" that one might use in the > narrower context of a statistics course. > There are people who would be developing and pricing some novel financial derivatives -- your "young people" are probably Ph.D. in finance or statistics or economics, and yes, programming is a must at research level, and R is a great choice (although economists might say that GAUSS or Stata is an even greater choice). The original question was about the first and most likely the only statistics class the health students will ever take, and the words "graduate level" should not be fooling anybody -- that will have to be a non-calculus data analysis class (Arin Basu can surprise me here now if it is different!!!). I would predict the students coming out of it will run the routine analysis that are spelled out by FDA and the likes, and I would think the FDA regulations could go as far as specific SAS syntax, or at least to specify SAS PROCs to be used. The GPL software does not necessarily thrive in commercial and even academic environments -- I have plenty acquantainces of mine in academia who prefer to use some commercial flavors of LaTeX over the free miktex distribution for the illusion of technical support they get for their money; I expect those people to prefer SPSS or SAS over R for similar reasons (plus the GUI). I don't argue that R is a greal tool for innovative work, but rather that it is the best tool for the basic stats class to a not-so-technical audience, and in the perspective work the students would be doing. Of course if you are a full professor you can dismiss any of the comments and teach the way you like. That's what I'll be planning to do when I get there :)) -- Stas Kolenikov, also found at http://stas.kolenikov.name Small print: Please do not reply to my Gmail address as I don't check it regularly. [[alternative HTML version deleted]] __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Re: [R] Using R in a university course: dealing with proposal comments
Neil Shephard wrote: > > (Most) of this problem isn't negated when using R. Start a new job and > use the (excellent, extensible, and free) software that you've been using > for years. > Apologies for the double negative, that should have read "(Most) of this problem _is_ negated when using R." Neil -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Using-R-in-a-university-course%3A-dealing-with-proposal-comments-tp15405138p15416301.html Sent from the R help mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Re: [R] Using R in a university course: dealing with proposal comments
Stas Kolenikov wrote:
> ...
> Training researchers of tomorrow might be great, but ifyour students get on
> the market in the end of the semester, they won't have the luxury of waiting
> until R becomes THE package of choice.
>
Not being a teacher, I usually follow these discussions with a bit of
amusement and some befuddlement. We hire young people hoping they will
bring in bright new ideas from academia, and academics are training the
students based on what they think are the old things we use.
Fortunately, R is already one of the packages of choice many places.
Another point that needs more emphasis is that R is actually a
programming language, like Matlab and and APL, so it really has more
general usefulness than "statistics packages" that one might use in the
narrower context of a statistics course.
Paul Gilbert
La version française suit le texte anglais.
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Re: [R] Using R in a university course: dealing with proposal comments
On Mon, Feb 11, 2008 at 07:37:04AM -0800, Neil Shephard wrote: > > > > Arin Basu-3 wrote: > > > > Comment 2: > > > > Finally, on a minor point, why is "R" the statistical software being > > used? SPSS is probably more widely available in the workplace – > > certainly in areas of social policy etc. " (Prof NB) > > > > > > What struck me in the above is the "probably". How probable is it, anything > to substantiate the claim? > > Anyway, whether one package is more widely available in the workplace than > another is somewhat of a moot point. If a student learns how to use one > software package then they start to get pigeon-holed into using that > particular software package. > > Many jobs are advertised with "SPSS/SAS/Stata/S-Plus" (add/subtract at will) > skills/knowledge required (or at least desirable). The prospective job > applicant may think "Well I don't know how to use that so I shan't bother > applying" or they may be unwilling to re-learn how to use a new stats > package after months/years of investment in learning how to use another > package, alternatively they may well just loose out to someone who already > has the experience/skills. > > (Most) of this problem isn't negated when using R. Start a new job and use > the (excellent, extensible, and free) software that you've been using for > years. And you could even argue that learning R means you'll be able to do more with SPSS: http://www.spss.com/spss/data_management_book.htm [I have not read this book so I don't know anything about the details of how they implement this, I just came across this by accident, but I was intrigued by the idea of extending SPSS using R.] David > > I'd stick with using R to teach your statistics, in the long-run any of them > who continue to perform statistical analysis will be grateful. > > Neil > -- David Whiting, Ph.D. Advancing Research in Chronic Disease Epidemiology (ARCHEPI) programme Institute of Health and Society, The Medical School, Newcastle University, Framlington Place, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE2 4HH. Tel: +44 191 222 7045; Extn: 7375; Fax: +44 191 222 8211. http://research.ncl.ac.uk/archepi www.ncl.ac.uk/ihs __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Re: [R] Using R in a university course: dealing with proposal comments
Arin Basu-3 wrote: > > Comment 2: > > Finally, on a minor point, why is "R" the statistical software being > used? SPSS is probably more widely available in the workplace – > certainly in areas of social policy etc. " (Prof NB) > > What struck me in the above is the "probably". How probable is it, anything to substantiate the claim? Anyway, whether one package is more widely available in the workplace than another is somewhat of a moot point. If a student learns how to use one software package then they start to get pigeon-holed into using that particular software package. Many jobs are advertised with "SPSS/SAS/Stata/S-Plus" (add/subtract at will) skills/knowledge required (or at least desirable). The prospective job applicant may think "Well I don't know how to use that so I shan't bother applying" or they may be unwilling to re-learn how to use a new stats package after months/years of investment in learning how to use another package, alternatively they may well just loose out to someone who already has the experience/skills. (Most) of this problem isn't negated when using R. Start a new job and use the (excellent, extensible, and free) software that you've been using for years. I'd stick with using R to teach your statistics, in the long-run any of them who continue to perform statistical analysis will be grateful. Neil -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Using-R-in-a-university-course%3A-dealing-with-proposal-comments-tp15405138p15413122.html Sent from the R help mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Re: [R] Using R in a university course: dealing with proposal comments
Hi Arin, Others have commented wisely an your first issue. As for your 2nd issue, I had my own concerns about using R in undergraduate teaching because I had always used a point-and-click program for that level. I should not have worried. The current generation has been typing on their keyboards and their phones for a long time; they are very skilled. They LIKE a command-line interface, so long as someone gives them an initial cheat sheet to get them going. They like the price, they like having it on their own computers, and they like that they can use it other courses. Some students are sometimes upset that no one has ever told them about R before. Two hours after the first lab in which I had students download R to their laptops, I received an email from a student telling me about how she had used R to do her physics homework. I like the (almost) platform-independence of R. I've resisted using Rcmdr and JGR because I want students to be able to use base R well. If they want to customize later, then fine. But what I teach them will apply wherever they next encounter R, whereas if were to use a lot of packages--especially one I would be tempted to create to match my teaching more closely--then they wouldn't be sure what to expect later. gary mcclelland Colorado [[alternative HTML version deleted]] __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Re: [R] Using R in a university course: dealing with proposal comments
I've been teaching an intro stats class to engineering students (who are better in calculus and math than med students, I would imagine), and use of R has never been received very warmly. I might not be teaching it right, but their (quite valid, from their standpoint) concerns were that they would have to learn a tool that they will never use (so they might have been better off with statistics toolbox from Matlab say, as they use the latter in their DiffEq, Circuits and other classes), and that did not get enough credit points for doing those (and indeed I was suggesting using R as an extra credit, essentially as a bypass so as not to use the tables in the end of the book). With health sciences people, I would expect they would want to learn the tool that they would use for life -- at least that's my impression with the applied researchers that I've interacted with: their computer literacy is often limited to a small number of software titles, but they know each of them quite well. R might be just too dynamic for them. Again, it's not terribly clear whether they will use it at all if that's the only statistics class they take for breadth requirement. If anything, I would expect SAS and Stata to be more widely used in biostatistics, so teaching any of those might be of greater service and use to your students. Training researchers of tomorrow might be great, but ifyour students get on the market in the end of the semester, they won't have the luxury of waiting until R becomes THE package of choice. -- Stas Kolenikov, also found at http://stas.kolenikov.name Small print: Please do not reply to my Gmail address as I don't check it regularly. [[alternative HTML version deleted]] __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Re: [R] Using R in a university course: dealing with proposal comments
I will also evaluate what did the students used before in the introductory statistics class and how proficient they have become in using it. If they only barely touched it, I will use my class as a chance to further refine their familiarity with the software they saw before. Tool is tool, I consider it's more important to use at least one tool, regardless of if it's trendy or free or user-friendly, really well rather than being able to juggle many softwares superficially. SPSS, despite of its price, is still widely recognized. I wouldn't feel too bad teaching it. However, I will definitely shift the focus to syntax writing from GUI so that the students will be better prepared for other command based softwares. Ken __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Re: [R] Using R in a university course: dealing with proposal comments
You can use a GUI to teach R, so the programming-style is gone. But using the command line aproach, it forces you to think about your analysis. In an GUI, it's easy to point and click, without knowing what you are doing. With the command line, you know where you start, and from there you go to the next step, and so on. I think you learn more this way. And of course, its free, so if they are off school or somewhat further, at work, they still have the possibility to use what they have learned (in contrary of SPSS maybe). Bart Arin Basu-3 wrote: > > Hi All, > > I am scheduled to teach a graduate course on research methods in > health sciences at a university. While drafting the course proposal, I > decided to include a brief introduction to R, primarily with an > objective to enable the students to do data analysis using R. It is > expected that enrolled students of this course have all at least a > formal first level introduction to quantitative methods in health > sciences and following completion of the course, they are all expected > to either evaluate, interpret, or conduct primary research studies in > health. The course would be delivered over 5 months, and R was > proposed to be taught as several laboratory based hands-on sessions > along with required readings within the coursework. > > The course proposal went to a few colleagues in the university for > review. I received review feedbacks from them; two of them commented > about inclusion of R in the proposal. > > In quoting parts these mails, I have masked the names/identities of > the referees, and have included just part of the relevant text with > their comments. Here are the comments: > > Comment 1: > > "In my quick glance, I did not see that statistics would be taught, > but I did see that R would be taught. Of course, R is a statistics > programme. I worry that teaching R could overwhelm the class. Or > teaching R would be worthless, because the students do not understand > statistics. " (Prof LR) > > Comment 2: > > Finally, on a minor point, why is "R" the statistical software being > used? SPSS is probably more widely available in the workplace – > certainly in areas of social policy etc. " (Prof NB) > > I am interested to know if any of you have faced similar questions > from colleagues about inclusion of R in non-statistics based > university graduate courses. If you did and were required to address > these concerns, how you would respond? > > TIA, > Arin Basu > > __ > R-help@r-project.org mailing list > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > PLEASE do read the posting guide > http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. > > -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Using-R-in-a-university-course%3A-dealing-with-proposal-comments-tp15405138p15412757.html Sent from the R help mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Re: [R] Using R in a university course: dealing with proposal comments
Dear Arin, > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > project.org] On Behalf Of Arin Basu > Sent: February-10-08 10:41 PM > To: r-help@r-project.org > Subject: [R] Using R in a university course: dealing with proposal > comments > > Hi All, > > I am scheduled to teach a graduate course on research methods in > health sciences at a university. While drafting the course proposal, I > decided to include a brief introduction to R, primarily with an > objective to enable the students to do data analysis using R. It is > expected that enrolled students of this course have all at least a > formal first level introduction to quantitative methods in health > sciences and following completion of the course, they are all expected > to either evaluate, interpret, or conduct primary research studies in > health. The course would be delivered over 5 months, and R was > proposed to be taught as several laboratory based hands-on sessions > along with required readings within the coursework. > > The course proposal went to a few colleagues in the university for > review. I received review feedbacks from them; two of them commented > about inclusion of R in the proposal. > > In quoting parts these mails, I have masked the names/identities of > the referees, and have included just part of the relevant text with > their comments. Here are the comments: > > Comment 1: > > "In my quick glance, I did not see that statistics would be taught, > but I did see that R would be taught. Of course, R is a statistics > programme. I worry that teaching R could overwhelm the class. Or > teaching R would be worthless, because the students do not understand > statistics. " (Prof LR) As others have pointed out, this is potentially a valid point, but it is applicable to all statistical software. I use R in several different courses for social-science undergraduates and grad students, but the focus is on the statistical methods, with R as a tool. In introductory courses, I use the Rcmdr package to simplify students' interaction with R. Beyond that level, I want students to learn to use R as a practical tool for data analysis, so I teach them to write commands. In all courses, students have much more difficulty with the substantive course content than with R, which they pick up readily. > Comment 2: > > Finally, on a minor point, why is "R" the statistical software being > used? SPSS is probably more widely available in the workplace - > certainly in areas of social policy etc. " (Prof NB) I don't have concrete data on this, and I'm sure that usage varies by field, but I'd bet that R is now more widely used overall (and internationally) than SPSS. Moreover, it wouldn't take students long to learn to point-and-click their way through SPSS if they have to use it in future. I hope this helps, John > > I am interested to know if any of you have faced similar questions > from colleagues about inclusion of R in non-statistics based > university graduate courses. If you did and were required to address > these concerns, how you would respond? > > TIA, > Arin Basu > > __ > R-help@r-project.org mailing list > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting- > guide.html > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Re: [R] Using R in a university course: dealing with proposal comments
Hello Arin, If your future students do not know statistics, you might consider buffering their introduction to R with the help of a GUI package, such as Rcmdr (if functionality is missing, you could add it yourself via the plugin infrastructure). Another way to help students would be to direct them to easy to use and straight-forward resources, like this [1], this [2] or this [3]. On the "why not SPSS" point, I would imagine the answer is quality and price, and all the corollary arguments (say, you can use it at home or during the weekend, etc). No more than my two cents. Liviu [1] http://oit.utk.edu/scc/RforSAS&SPSSusers.pdf [2] http://www.statmethods.net/index.html [3] http://zoonek2.free.fr/UNIX/48_R/all.html On 2/11/08, Arin Basu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Comment 1: > > "In my quick glance, I did not see that statistics would be taught, > but I did see that R would be taught. Of course, R is a statistics > programme. I worry that teaching R could overwhelm the class. Or > teaching R would be worthless, because the students do not understand > statistics. " (Prof LR) > > Comment 2: > > Finally, on a minor point, why is "R" the statistical software being > used? SPSS is probably more widely available in the workplace – > certainly in areas of social policy etc. " (Prof NB) __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Re: [R] Using R in a university course: dealing with proposal comments
R is "just a tool", but so is English. R is the platform of choice for an increasing portion of people involved in new statistical algorithm development. R is not yet the de facto standard for nearly all serious research internationally, to the extent that English is. However, I believe that is only a matter of time. There will always be a place for software with a nicer graphical user interface, etc., than R. For an undergraduate course, it may be wise to stick with SPSS, SAS, Minitab, etc. Are you teaching graduate students to solve yesterday's problems or tomorrow's? Much of my work in 2007 was in Matlab, because I am working with colleagues who use only Matlab. Matlab has better debugging tools. However, R now has well over 1,000 contributed packages, and r-help and r-sig-x provide better support and extensibility than you will likely get from commercial software. Twice in the past year, an executive said I should get some Matlab toolbox. In the first case, after thinking about it for a few days, I finally requested and received official permission from a Vice President. From that point, it took roughly a week to get a quote from Mathsoft, then close to two weeks to get approval from our Chief Financial Officer, then a few more days to actually get the software. With R, that month long process is reduced to seconds: I download the package and try it. This has allowed me to do things today that I only dreamed of doing a few years ago. Moreover, R makes it much easier for me to learn new statistical techniques. When I'm not sure I understand the math, I can trace through a worked example in R, and the uncertainties almost always disappear. For that, 'debug(fun)' helps a lot. If I want to try something different, I don't have to start from scratch to develop code to perform an existing analysis. I now look for companion R code before I decide to buy a book or when I prioritize how much time I will spend with different books or articles: If something has companion R code, I know I can learn much quicker how to use, modify and extend the statistical tools discussed. Spencer Graves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Comment 1 raises a real issue. R is just a tool. Too often people do > confuse the tool with the real skill that the people who use it should > have. There are plenty of questions on R-help that demonstrate this > confusion. It's well worth keeping in mind and acting upon if you can > see a problem emerging, but I would not take it quite at face value and > abandon R on those grounds. > > Comment 2 is one of those comments that belongs to a very particular > period of time, one that passes as we look on. It reminds me of the > time I tried to introduce some new software into my courses, (back in > the days when I was a teacher, long, long ago...). The students took to > it like ducks to water, but my colleagues on the staff were very slow to > adapt, and some never did. Also, R wins every time on price! > > > Bill Venables > CSIRO Laboratories > PO Box 120, Cleveland, 4163 > AUSTRALIA > Office Phone (email preferred): +61 7 3826 7251 > Fax (if absolutely necessary): +61 7 3826 7304 > Mobile: +61 4 8819 4402 > Home Phone: +61 7 3286 7700 > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.cmis.csiro.au/bill.venables/ > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On Behalf Of Arin Basu > Sent: Monday, 11 February 2008 1:41 PM > To: r-help@r-project.org > Subject: [R] Using R in a university course: dealing with proposal > comments > > Hi All, > > I am scheduled to teach a graduate course on research methods in > health sciences at a university. While drafting the course proposal, I > decided to include a brief introduction to R, primarily with an > objective to enable the students to do data analysis using R. It is > expected that enrolled students of this course have all at least a > formal first level introduction to quantitative methods in health > sciences and following completion of the course, they are all expected > to either evaluate, interpret, or conduct primary research studies in > health. The course would be delivered over 5 months, and R was > proposed to be taught as several laboratory based hands-on sessions > along with required readings within the coursework. > > The course proposal went to a few colleagues in the university for > review. I received review feedbacks from them; two of them commented > about inclusion of R in the proposal. > > In quoting parts these mails, I have masked the names/identities of > the referees, and have included just part of the relevant text with > their comments. Here are the
Re: [R] Using R in a university course: dealing with proposal comments
Comment 1 raises a real issue. R is just a tool. Too often people do confuse the tool with the real skill that the people who use it should have. There are plenty of questions on R-help that demonstrate this confusion. It's well worth keeping in mind and acting upon if you can see a problem emerging, but I would not take it quite at face value and abandon R on those grounds. Comment 2 is one of those comments that belongs to a very particular period of time, one that passes as we look on. It reminds me of the time I tried to introduce some new software into my courses, (back in the days when I was a teacher, long, long ago...). The students took to it like ducks to water, but my colleagues on the staff were very slow to adapt, and some never did. Also, R wins every time on price! Bill Venables CSIRO Laboratories PO Box 120, Cleveland, 4163 AUSTRALIA Office Phone (email preferred): +61 7 3826 7251 Fax (if absolutely necessary): +61 7 3826 7304 Mobile: +61 4 8819 4402 Home Phone: +61 7 3286 7700 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cmis.csiro.au/bill.venables/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Arin Basu Sent: Monday, 11 February 2008 1:41 PM To: r-help@r-project.org Subject: [R] Using R in a university course: dealing with proposal comments Hi All, I am scheduled to teach a graduate course on research methods in health sciences at a university. While drafting the course proposal, I decided to include a brief introduction to R, primarily with an objective to enable the students to do data analysis using R. It is expected that enrolled students of this course have all at least a formal first level introduction to quantitative methods in health sciences and following completion of the course, they are all expected to either evaluate, interpret, or conduct primary research studies in health. The course would be delivered over 5 months, and R was proposed to be taught as several laboratory based hands-on sessions along with required readings within the coursework. The course proposal went to a few colleagues in the university for review. I received review feedbacks from them; two of them commented about inclusion of R in the proposal. In quoting parts these mails, I have masked the names/identities of the referees, and have included just part of the relevant text with their comments. Here are the comments: Comment 1: "In my quick glance, I did not see that statistics would be taught, but I did see that R would be taught. Of course, R is a statistics programme. I worry that teaching R could overwhelm the class. Or teaching R would be worthless, because the students do not understand statistics. " (Prof LR) Comment 2: Finally, on a minor point, why is "R" the statistical software being used? SPSS is probably more widely available in the workplace - certainly in areas of social policy etc. " (Prof NB) I am interested to know if any of you have faced similar questions from colleagues about inclusion of R in non-statistics based university graduate courses. If you did and were required to address these concerns, how you would respond? TIA, Arin Basu __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
[R] Using R in a university course: dealing with proposal comments
Hi All, I am scheduled to teach a graduate course on research methods in health sciences at a university. While drafting the course proposal, I decided to include a brief introduction to R, primarily with an objective to enable the students to do data analysis using R. It is expected that enrolled students of this course have all at least a formal first level introduction to quantitative methods in health sciences and following completion of the course, they are all expected to either evaluate, interpret, or conduct primary research studies in health. The course would be delivered over 5 months, and R was proposed to be taught as several laboratory based hands-on sessions along with required readings within the coursework. The course proposal went to a few colleagues in the university for review. I received review feedbacks from them; two of them commented about inclusion of R in the proposal. In quoting parts these mails, I have masked the names/identities of the referees, and have included just part of the relevant text with their comments. Here are the comments: Comment 1: "In my quick glance, I did not see that statistics would be taught, but I did see that R would be taught. Of course, R is a statistics programme. I worry that teaching R could overwhelm the class. Or teaching R would be worthless, because the students do not understand statistics. " (Prof LR) Comment 2: Finally, on a minor point, why is "R" the statistical software being used? SPSS is probably more widely available in the workplace – certainly in areas of social policy etc. " (Prof NB) I am interested to know if any of you have faced similar questions from colleagues about inclusion of R in non-statistics based university graduate courses. If you did and were required to address these concerns, how you would respond? TIA, Arin Basu __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
