Re: [R] Bar Plot ggplot2 Filling bars with cross hatching
Rolf Turner wrote:
On 20/01/2009, at 1:46 PM, Duncan Murdoch wrote:
On 19/01/2009 7:36 PM, stephen sefick wrote:
what is your suggestion for distinguishing between many bars without
color? I have grown up in the time of standarized tests - good or
bad
I never felt nauseous.
Use gray levels or labels. If many is bigger than 5, it's not going
to be easy, whatever method you are using.
I disagree. Grey levels suck; labels are a kludge. It is an issue
for ``many'' == 2, for which crosshatching works perfectly.
Could you show an example?
There are several BW examples in example(barplot), and the gray ones
look better on screen than the cross-hatched one. (Not to say it makes
a very good choice of cross-hatching, but I suspect the gray examples
will look better than any 5 cross-hatch patterns.) I haven't tried
printing the examples, so I'm not sure the gray would reproduce well on
paper; I wouldn't try to print those 5 gray levels on a typical printer.
Duncan Murdoch
cheers,
Rolf
Duncan Murdoch
Stephen
On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 5:20 PM, Greg Snow greg.s...@imail.org
wrote:
I think the fact that the grid package does not support cross-
hatching is a feature not a bug (or deficiency), and I hope that
this is not fixed. Tufte's book (The Visual Display of
Quantitative Information) has a section on why cross-hatching
should be avoided (unless of course your goal is to induce nausea
in the observer rather than convey information).
I would edit Hadley's statement below to say fortunately there's
no way to do this in ggplot2.
--
Gregory (Greg) L. Snow Ph.D.
Statistical Data Center
Intermountain Healthcare
greg.s...@imail.org
801.408.8111
-Original Message-
From: r-help-boun...@r-project.org [mailto:r-help-boun...@r-
project.org] On Behalf Of hadley wickham
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 10:55 AM
To: stephen sefick
Cc: R-help
Subject: Re: [R] Bar Plot ggplot2 Filling bars with cross hatching
Hi Stephen,
#I am putting a test together for an introductory biology class
and I
would like to put different cross hatching inside of each bar
for the
bar plot below
ggplot2 uses the grid package to do all the drawing, and currently
grid doesn't support cross-hatching, so unfortunately there's no
way
to do this in ggplot2.
Regards,
Hadley
--
http://had.co.nz/
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Re: [R] Bar Plot ggplot2 Filling bars with cross hatching
I disagree. Grey levels suck; labels are a kludge. It is an issue for ``many'' == 2, for which crosshatching works perfectly. Could you show an example? There are several BW examples in example(barplot), and the gray ones look better on screen than the cross-hatched one. (Not to say it makes a very good choice of cross-hatching, but I suspect the gray examples will look better than any 5 cross-hatch patterns.) I haven't tried printing the examples, so I'm not sure the gray would reproduce well on paper; I wouldn't try to print those 5 gray levels on a typical printer. My feeling is that the best cross-hatching is probably going to be more aesthetically pleasing than the best solid greys (see e.g. http://www.dannygregory.com/2005/09/cross_hatching.php). However, doing cross hatching well is far more difficult than doing grey well, and for really nice cross-hatching I suspect you also need a high quality printer. It is also a challenging problem to come up with an algorithm for generating perceptually uniform sets of cross-hatchings. I suspect there is some work on this area in vis/infovis, but I haven't find it in a few minutes of casual searching. Hadley Hadley -- http://had.co.nz/ __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Re: [R] Bar Plot ggplot2 Filling bars with cross hatching
The best thing to do really depends on your situation and what question you are trying to answer with your plot. Shades of grey has been mentioned, and in some cases that works, but you then run into the problem (same problem with colors and hatching density) of figuring out which bars to make light and which dark since a plot can have a very different visual impact depending on that choice. Sometimes reordering and/or grouping/regrouping bars in a barplot can convey the information with the need for fewer visual distinguishers. Dotplots have also been mentioned already, they are often an improvement on a barplot. You can use different symbols for the dots (or even letters if overlap is small enough and the letters give more information) and labeling and grouping are more natural. Sometimes a line plot is an appropriate alternative to a barplot. Also take into account how the plot will be used/displayed, others have mentioned that what looks good on screen may not print out well (also true of cross-hatching). I have seen some overhead projectors where the slide clearly had black and grey sections, but when projected, all the grey was black as well. If this is something that will be photocopied, then colors/shades/hatches can change in that process and not be distinguishable. Often the best strategy is to make multiple variations of a graph, then show them to someone else for an outside opinion of which best convey the information. If you tell us a bit more about the specifics of the project, we may have more or better suggestions. -- Gregory (Greg) L. Snow Ph.D. Statistical Data Center Intermountain Healthcare greg.s...@imail.org 801.408.8111 -Original Message- From: stephen sefick [mailto:ssef...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 5:37 PM To: Greg Snow Cc: hadley wickham; R-help Subject: Re: [R] Bar Plot ggplot2 Filling bars with cross hatching what is your suggestion for distinguishing between many bars without color? I have grown up in the time of standarized tests - good or bad I never felt nauseous. Stephen On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 5:20 PM, Greg Snow greg.s...@imail.org wrote: I think the fact that the grid package does not support cross- hatching is a feature not a bug (or deficiency), and I hope that this is not fixed. Tufte's book (The Visual Display of Quantitative Information) has a section on why cross-hatching should be avoided (unless of course your goal is to induce nausea in the observer rather than convey information). I would edit Hadley's statement below to say fortunately there's no way to do this in ggplot2. -- Gregory (Greg) L. Snow Ph.D. Statistical Data Center Intermountain Healthcare greg.s...@imail.org 801.408.8111 -Original Message- From: r-help-boun...@r-project.org [mailto:r-help-boun...@r- project.org] On Behalf Of hadley wickham Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 10:55 AM To: stephen sefick Cc: R-help Subject: Re: [R] Bar Plot ggplot2 Filling bars with cross hatching Hi Stephen, #I am putting a test together for an introductory biology class and I would like to put different cross hatching inside of each bar for the bar plot below ggplot2 uses the grid package to do all the drawing, and currently grid doesn't support cross-hatching, so unfortunately there's no way to do this in ggplot2. Regards, Hadley -- http://had.co.nz/ __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting- guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. -- Stephen Sefick Let's not spend our time and resources thinking about things that are so little or so large that all they really do for us is puff us up and make us feel like gods. We are mammals, and have not exhausted the annoying little problems of being mammals. -K. Mullis __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Re: [R] Bar Plot ggplot2 Filling bars with cross hatching
I think the fact that the grid package does not support cross-hatching is a feature not a bug (or deficiency), and I hope that this is not fixed. Tufte's book (The Visual Display of Quantitative Information) has a section on why cross-hatching should be avoided (unless of course your goal is to induce nausea in the observer rather than convey information). I would edit Hadley's statement below to say fortunately there's no way to do this in ggplot2. -- Gregory (Greg) L. Snow Ph.D. Statistical Data Center Intermountain Healthcare greg.s...@imail.org 801.408.8111 -Original Message- From: r-help-boun...@r-project.org [mailto:r-help-boun...@r- project.org] On Behalf Of hadley wickham Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 10:55 AM To: stephen sefick Cc: R-help Subject: Re: [R] Bar Plot ggplot2 Filling bars with cross hatching Hi Stephen, #I am putting a test together for an introductory biology class and I would like to put different cross hatching inside of each bar for the bar plot below ggplot2 uses the grid package to do all the drawing, and currently grid doesn't support cross-hatching, so unfortunately there's no way to do this in ggplot2. Regards, Hadley -- http://had.co.nz/ __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting- guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Re: [R] Bar Plot ggplot2 Filling bars with cross hatching
what is your suggestion for distinguishing between many bars without color? I have grown up in the time of standarized tests - good or bad I never felt nauseous. Stephen On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 5:20 PM, Greg Snow greg.s...@imail.org wrote: I think the fact that the grid package does not support cross-hatching is a feature not a bug (or deficiency), and I hope that this is not fixed. Tufte's book (The Visual Display of Quantitative Information) has a section on why cross-hatching should be avoided (unless of course your goal is to induce nausea in the observer rather than convey information). I would edit Hadley's statement below to say fortunately there's no way to do this in ggplot2. -- Gregory (Greg) L. Snow Ph.D. Statistical Data Center Intermountain Healthcare greg.s...@imail.org 801.408.8111 -Original Message- From: r-help-boun...@r-project.org [mailto:r-help-boun...@r- project.org] On Behalf Of hadley wickham Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 10:55 AM To: stephen sefick Cc: R-help Subject: Re: [R] Bar Plot ggplot2 Filling bars with cross hatching Hi Stephen, #I am putting a test together for an introductory biology class and I would like to put different cross hatching inside of each bar for the bar plot below ggplot2 uses the grid package to do all the drawing, and currently grid doesn't support cross-hatching, so unfortunately there's no way to do this in ggplot2. Regards, Hadley -- http://had.co.nz/ __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting- guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. -- Stephen Sefick Let's not spend our time and resources thinking about things that are so little or so large that all they really do for us is puff us up and make us feel like gods. We are mammals, and have not exhausted the annoying little problems of being mammals. -K. Mullis __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Re: [R] Bar Plot ggplot2 Filling bars with cross hatching
On 19/01/2009 7:36 PM, stephen sefick wrote: what is your suggestion for distinguishing between many bars without color? I have grown up in the time of standarized tests - good or bad I never felt nauseous. Use gray levels or labels. If many is bigger than 5, it's not going to be easy, whatever method you are using. Duncan Murdoch Stephen On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 5:20 PM, Greg Snow greg.s...@imail.org wrote: I think the fact that the grid package does not support cross-hatching is a feature not a bug (or deficiency), and I hope that this is not fixed. Tufte's book (The Visual Display of Quantitative Information) has a section on why cross-hatching should be avoided (unless of course your goal is to induce nausea in the observer rather than convey information). I would edit Hadley's statement below to say fortunately there's no way to do this in ggplot2. -- Gregory (Greg) L. Snow Ph.D. Statistical Data Center Intermountain Healthcare greg.s...@imail.org 801.408.8111 -Original Message- From: r-help-boun...@r-project.org [mailto:r-help-boun...@r- project.org] On Behalf Of hadley wickham Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 10:55 AM To: stephen sefick Cc: R-help Subject: Re: [R] Bar Plot ggplot2 Filling bars with cross hatching Hi Stephen, #I am putting a test together for an introductory biology class and I would like to put different cross hatching inside of each bar for the bar plot below ggplot2 uses the grid package to do all the drawing, and currently grid doesn't support cross-hatching, so unfortunately there's no way to do this in ggplot2. Regards, Hadley -- http://had.co.nz/ __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting- guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Re: [R] Bar Plot ggplot2 Filling bars with cross hatching
On 20/01/2009, at 1:36 PM, stephen sefick wrote:
what is your suggestion for distinguishing between many bars without
color?
Exactly. Sometimes colour printing can be expensive.
I have grown up in the time of standarized tests - good or bad
I never felt nauseous.
Ni moi non plus.
cheers,
Rolf Turner
Stephen
On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 5:20 PM, Greg Snow greg.s...@imail.org
wrote:
I think the fact that the grid package does not support cross-
hatching is a feature not a bug (or deficiency), and I hope that
this is not fixed. Tufte's book (The Visual Display of
Quantitative Information) has a section on why cross-hatching
should be avoided (unless of course your goal is to induce nausea
in the observer rather than convey information).
I would edit Hadley's statement below to say fortunately there's
no way to do this in ggplot2.
--
Gregory (Greg) L. Snow Ph.D.
Statistical Data Center
Intermountain Healthcare
greg.s...@imail.org
801.408.8111
-Original Message-
From: r-help-boun...@r-project.org [mailto:r-help-boun...@r-
project.org] On Behalf Of hadley wickham
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 10:55 AM
To: stephen sefick
Cc: R-help
Subject: Re: [R] Bar Plot ggplot2 Filling bars with cross hatching
Hi Stephen,
#I am putting a test together for an introductory biology class
and I
would like to put different cross hatching inside of each bar
for the
bar plot below
ggplot2 uses the grid package to do all the drawing, and currently
grid doesn't support cross-hatching, so unfortunately there's no way
to do this in ggplot2.
Regards,
Hadley
--
http://had.co.nz/
__
R-help@r-project.org mailing list
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-
guide.html
and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
--
Stephen Sefick
Let's not spend our time and resources thinking about things that are
so little or so large that all they really do for us is puff us up and
make us feel like gods. We are mammals, and have not exhausted the
annoying little problems of being mammals.
-K. Mullis
__
R-help@r-project.org mailing list
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-
guide.html
and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
##
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and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Re: [R] Bar Plot ggplot2 Filling bars with cross hatching
If classic graphics is ok try this which uses hatches and different shades of grey: barplot(lizards, names.arg = color, col = grey(c(.2, .5, 1)), density = 20, angle = c(45, -45, 0), legend = color) On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 10:18 PM, stephen sefick ssef...@gmail.com wrote: #I am putting a test together for an introductory biology class and I would like to put different cross hatching inside of each bar for the bar plot below color - c(Brightly Colored, Dull, Neither) lizards - c(277, 70, 3) liz.col - data.frame(color, lizards) qplot(color, lizards, data=liz.col, geom=bar, ylab=Observed Matings, main=Counts Out of 350 Aquariums, ylim=c(0,400), fill=color)+scale_y_continuous(breaks=c(0, 70, 277, 350)) Thanks -- Stephen Sefick Let's not spend our time and resources thinking about things that are so little or so large that all they really do for us is puff us up and make us feel like gods. We are mammals, and have not exhausted the annoying little problems of being mammals. -K. Mullis __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Re: [R] Bar Plot ggplot2 Filling bars with cross hatching
On 20/01/2009, at 1:46 PM, Duncan Murdoch wrote:
On 19/01/2009 7:36 PM, stephen sefick wrote:
what is your suggestion for distinguishing between many bars without
color? I have grown up in the time of standarized tests - good or
bad
I never felt nauseous.
Use gray levels or labels. If many is bigger than 5, it's not going
to be easy, whatever method you are using.
I disagree. Grey levels suck; labels are a kludge. It is an issue
for ``many'' == 2, for which crosshatching works perfectly.
cheers,
Rolf
Duncan Murdoch
Stephen
On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 5:20 PM, Greg Snow greg.s...@imail.org
wrote:
I think the fact that the grid package does not support cross-
hatching is a feature not a bug (or deficiency), and I hope that
this is not fixed. Tufte's book (The Visual Display of
Quantitative Information) has a section on why cross-hatching
should be avoided (unless of course your goal is to induce nausea
in the observer rather than convey information).
I would edit Hadley's statement below to say fortunately there's
no way to do this in ggplot2.
--
Gregory (Greg) L. Snow Ph.D.
Statistical Data Center
Intermountain Healthcare
greg.s...@imail.org
801.408.8111
-Original Message-
From: r-help-boun...@r-project.org [mailto:r-help-boun...@r-
project.org] On Behalf Of hadley wickham
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 10:55 AM
To: stephen sefick
Cc: R-help
Subject: Re: [R] Bar Plot ggplot2 Filling bars with cross hatching
Hi Stephen,
#I am putting a test together for an introductory biology class
and I
would like to put different cross hatching inside of each bar
for the
bar plot below
ggplot2 uses the grid package to do all the drawing, and currently
grid doesn't support cross-hatching, so unfortunately there's no
way
to do this in ggplot2.
Regards,
Hadley
--
http://had.co.nz/
__
R-help@r-project.org mailing list
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-
guide.html
and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
__
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PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-
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and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
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Re: [R] Bar Plot ggplot2 Filling bars with cross hatching
On 19-Jan-09, at 4:59 PM, Rolf Turner wrote:
On 20/01/2009, at 1:46 PM, Duncan Murdoch wrote:
On 19/01/2009 7:36 PM, stephen sefick wrote:
what is your suggestion for distinguishing between many bars without
color? I have grown up in the time of standarized tests - good
or bad
I never felt nauseous.
Use gray levels or labels. If many is bigger than 5, it's not
going
to be easy, whatever method you are using.
I disagree. Grey levels suck; labels are a kludge. It is an issue
for ``many'' == 2, for which crosshatching works perfectly.
cheers,
Rolf
I believe Tufte had negative things to say about barplots, hatched or
not. He said something to the effect
of Why use a two-dimensional rectangle to represent a one-
dimensional data point?
What about a dotplot with a different symbol for each of what would
have been hatched rectangles?
That reduces the ink/information ratio (which I believe was also a
concern of Tufte's).
Don
Duncan Murdoch
Stephen
On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 5:20 PM, Greg Snow greg.s...@imail.org
wrote:
I think the fact that the grid package does not support cross-
hatching is a feature not a bug (or deficiency), and I hope that
this is not fixed. Tufte's book (The Visual Display of
Quantitative Information) has a section on why cross-hatching
should be avoided (unless of course your goal is to induce
nausea in the observer rather than convey information).
I would edit Hadley's statement below to say fortunately
there's no way to do this in ggplot2.
--
Gregory (Greg) L. Snow Ph.D.
Statistical Data Center
Intermountain Healthcare
greg.s...@imail.org
801.408.8111
-Original Message-
From: r-help-boun...@r-project.org [mailto:r-help-boun...@r-
project.org] On Behalf Of hadley wickham
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 10:55 AM
To: stephen sefick
Cc: R-help
Subject: Re: [R] Bar Plot ggplot2 Filling bars with cross hatching
Hi Stephen,
#I am putting a test together for an introductory biology
class and I
would like to put different cross hatching inside of each bar
for the
bar plot below
ggplot2 uses the grid package to do all the drawing, and currently
grid doesn't support cross-hatching, so unfortunately there's
no way
to do this in ggplot2.
Regards,
Hadley
--
http://had.co.nz/
__
R-help@r-project.org mailing list
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-
guide.html
and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
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Re: [R] Bar Plot ggplot2 Filling bars with cross hatching
Hi Stephen, #I am putting a test together for an introductory biology class and I would like to put different cross hatching inside of each bar for the bar plot below ggplot2 uses the grid package to do all the drawing, and currently grid doesn't support cross-hatching, so unfortunately there's no way to do this in ggplot2. Regards, Hadley -- http://had.co.nz/ __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Re: [R] Bar Plot ggplot2 Filling bars with cross hatching
This will be fixed in the next version, but until then you can do title = Aquarium\n Hadley On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 9:24 PM, stephen sefick ssef...@gmail.com wrote: Also notice that the q in Aquarium is hidden. Is there a way to make this not happen? thanks Stephen Sefick On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 10:18 PM, stephen sefick ssef...@gmail.com wrote: #I am putting a test together for an introductory biology class and I would like to put different cross hatching inside of each bar for the bar plot below color - c(Brightly Colored, Dull, Neither) lizards - c(277, 70, 3) liz.col - data.frame(color, lizards) qplot(color, lizards, data=liz.col, geom=bar, ylab=Observed Matings, main=Counts Out of 350 Aquariums, ylim=c(0,400), fill=color)+scale_y_continuous(breaks=c(0, 70, 277, 350)) Thanks -- Stephen Sefick Let's not spend our time and resources thinking about things that are so little or so large that all they really do for us is puff us up and make us feel like gods. We are mammals, and have not exhausted the annoying little problems of being mammals. -K. Mullis -- Stephen Sefick Let's not spend our time and resources thinking about things that are so little or so large that all they really do for us is puff us up and make us feel like gods. We are mammals, and have not exhausted the annoying little problems of being mammals. -K. Mullis __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. -- http://had.co.nz/ __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Re: [R] Bar Plot ggplot2 Filling bars with cross hatching
Also notice that the q in Aquarium is hidden. Is there a way to make this not happen? thanks Stephen Sefick On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 10:18 PM, stephen sefick ssef...@gmail.com wrote: #I am putting a test together for an introductory biology class and I would like to put different cross hatching inside of each bar for the bar plot below color - c(Brightly Colored, Dull, Neither) lizards - c(277, 70, 3) liz.col - data.frame(color, lizards) qplot(color, lizards, data=liz.col, geom=bar, ylab=Observed Matings, main=Counts Out of 350 Aquariums, ylim=c(0,400), fill=color)+scale_y_continuous(breaks=c(0, 70, 277, 350)) Thanks -- Stephen Sefick Let's not spend our time and resources thinking about things that are so little or so large that all they really do for us is puff us up and make us feel like gods. We are mammals, and have not exhausted the annoying little problems of being mammals. -K. Mullis -- Stephen Sefick Let's not spend our time and resources thinking about things that are so little or so large that all they really do for us is puff us up and make us feel like gods. We are mammals, and have not exhausted the annoying little problems of being mammals. -K. Mullis __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
