Re: [R] www.r-project.org
think it could be quite useful for most r-users to (keep r-project web site as functional as today but to) offer a links page complementary to other Documentation pages that could link to some of the numerous resources (scripts, etc) on the internet in personal home pages or academic sites impossible to be catched by a single person. These links could be classified by theme such as those in task views or rather according to the different areas of statistics. Indeed many answers in rhelp ended by you should have a look at www Adaikalavan Ramasamy a écrit : I am coming late into the discussion, so apologies if the following points are redundant. 1) IMHO, the most important feature that would make life a lot easier for everyone is having search engines on the main webpage. I know you can click on the Search on the left hand side pane but putting it on the main webpage is much more useful. We can also have a targets section for the search (c.f. http://finzi.psych.upenn.edu/nmz.html) where one can search mailing list, html Manual, FAQ, user-inputted package name etc. 2) About having explicit URL print, may I suggest using http://maps.google.com approach of using the Link to this page (top right hand of the page) ? 3) I understand that R is restricted in terms of priority and human resources. But given that Asia (e.g. India, Singapore, China) has low labour costs and abundant computing personals, would it not make sense for some Asian research group to offer to spearhead and maintain the website ? From a marketing point of view some nice graphics, search functions and navigation etc would be useful to attract newcomers. There could be a simple version alternative (as it is now) for those who prefer or those who have trouble accessing the site. Just my £0.02. Regards, Adai On Tue, 2006-04-25 at 12:33 -0700, Spencer Graves wrote: Hi, Gabor: inline Gabor Grothendieck wrote: On Windows, right click the web page, choose Properties and copy the url there. That works, and I will use it in the future. Thanks. However, if the subject is not educating Spencer Graves but how to make www.r-project.org more user friendly, then it still might help to display as Address the actual web address of the archive page rather than www.r-project.org. It may not look as pretty, but I'm for function first and cosmetics only if they don't interfere with functionality. Best Wishes, spencer graves On 4/25/06, Spencer Graves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html -- --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] CNRS UMR 8090 - http://www-good.ibl.fr Génomique et physiologie moléculaire des maladies métaboliques I.B.L 2eme etage - 1 rue du Pr Calmette, B.P.245, 59019 Lille Cedex Tel : 33 (0)3.20.87.10.44 Fax : 33 (0)3.20.87.10.31 __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] www.r-project.org
Hi, To sum up : * yes, the R website is operationnal. There is no reason whatsoever to change its content. * no javascript, no flash, no chartjunk !! * rework the style, start wih the css file(s) * stop with those frames, and use css to place some kind of fake frames * maybe store the name of your CRAN in a cookie What about - place somewhere a div called 'Focus on a package' where we could have a short presentation of a package, etc ... or for a CRAN task view (to do that, php would be great, but we can do I don't know perl scripts to generate static html pages) - a direct link to download R, which will redirect to the appropriate CRAN thanks to cookies - Propose the Table of Contents of the last volume of R news. - reduce the ratio (size of the head page graphic) / (information directly accesible) - move search, task views, and documentation from cran to www Romain From roger bos : After all, the r-help list doesn't even like HTML in email, so it may not like too many fancy stuff on their website either. html in email is evil. html in a website is normal. From Jon Baron : The only thing I might change is to replace the frames with some sort of CSS-based positioning. HOWEVER, the new version of Internet Explorer may totally destroy the usefulness of CSS, so maybe it is better to leave things as they are for now. What ! IE is not the only browser, and so not the better. Despite is dominant position, i don't think all website will abandon doing css because microsoft is not able to make its browser understand it. -- visit the R Graph Gallery : http://addictedtor.free.fr/graphiques mixmod 1.7 is released : http://www-math.univ-fcomte.fr/mixmod/index.php +---+ | Romain FRANCOIS - http://francoisromain.free.fr | | Doctorant INRIA Futurs / EDF | +---+ __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] www.r-project.org
The webmasters have not AFAICS replied in this thread, and perhaps you should wait for them. In particular, making cran.r-project.org an autodirector to the nearest mirror and replacing frames have I believe already been agreed and just need resources to implement (and first www. and cran.r-project.org are being moved to new hardware at a different physical site). Please remember that as always R has very limited human resources and is the web site a high priority within those resources? (I don't judge it so.) You will find discussion of frames vs css in the archives. On Wed, 26 Apr 2006, Romain Francois wrote: Hi, To sum up : * yes, the R website is operationnal. There is no reason whatsoever to change its content. * no javascript, no flash, no chartjunk !! * rework the style, start wih the css file(s) * stop with those frames, and use css to place some kind of fake frames * maybe store the name of your CRAN in a cookie What about - place somewhere a div called 'Focus on a package' where we could have a short presentation of a package, etc ... or for a CRAN task view (to do that, php would be great, but we can do I don't know perl scripts to generate static html pages) - a direct link to download R, which will redirect to the appropriate CRAN thanks to cookies - Propose the Table of Contents of the last volume of R news. - reduce the ratio (size of the head page graphic) / (information directly accesible) - move search, task views, and documentation from cran to www Romain From roger bos : After all, the r-help list doesn't even like HTML in email, so it may not like too many fancy stuff on their website either. html in email is evil. html in a website is normal. From Jon Baron : The only thing I might change is to replace the frames with some sort of CSS-based positioning. HOWEVER, the new version of Internet Explorer may totally destroy the usefulness of CSS, so maybe it is better to leave things as they are for now. What ! IE is not the only browser, and so not the better. Despite is dominant position, i don't think all website will abandon doing css because microsoft is not able to make its browser understand it. -- Brian D. Ripley, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Professor of Applied Statistics, http://www.stats.ox.ac.uk/~ripley/ University of Oxford, Tel: +44 1865 272861 (self) 1 South Parks Road, +44 1865 272866 (PA) Oxford OX1 3TG, UKFax: +44 1865 272595 __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] www.r-project.org
Romain Francois wrote: What about - place somewhere a div called 'Focus on a package' where we could have a short presentation of a package, etc ... or for a CRAN task view (to do that, php would be great, but we can do I don't know perl scripts to generate static html pages) - a direct link to download R, which will redirect to the appropriate CRAN thanks to cookies - Propose the Table of Contents of the last volume of R news. - reduce the ratio (size of the head page graphic) / (information directly accesible) - move search, task views, and documentation from cran to www Now maybe my original assessment that a CMS wasn't worth investing in needs a rethink. Suppose www.r-project.org was rebuilt with Plone: http://plone.org/ You'd get: * An easy-to-edit set of accessible web pages * A thorough search of site content * News and Events objects * Replace CRAN with Plone Software Center: http://plone.org/products/plonesoftwarecenter - as used to display plone Products here: http://plone.org/products * Use Plone Help Center for documentation, as used here: http://plone.org/documentation * Use poi to replace the R-bugs system: http://plone.org/products/poi - although plone itself has moved to using 'trac' http://www.edgewall.com/trac/ Of course, it requires time, hosting, and enthusiasm I'm currently lacking all three. Barry __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] www.r-project.org
Le 26.04.2006 12:14, Prof Brian Ripley a écrit : The webmasters have not AFAICS replied in this thread, and perhaps you should wait for them. In particular, making cran.r-project.org an autodirector to the nearest mirror and replacing frames have I believe already been agreed and just need resources to implement (and first www. and cran.r-project.org are being moved to new hardware at a different physical site). Please remember that as always R has very limited human resources and is the web site a high priority within those resources? (I don't judge it so.) Absolutely. This is so not a priority for the core team. You are doing a wonderful job improving R, and I do not want in any case divert you from that. But, some people (like me) don't have the same abilities in R programming, but can (to some extent) contribute efforts in designing web pages. You will find discussion of frames vs css in the archives. I'm on my way ... -- visit the R Graph Gallery : http://addictedtor.free.fr/graphiques mixmod 1.7 is released : http://www-math.univ-fcomte.fr/mixmod/index.php +---+ | Romain FRANCOIS - http://francoisromain.free.fr | | Doctorant INRIA Futurs / EDF | +---+ __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] www.r-project.org
Romain Francois wrote: Dear R users and developpers, My question is adressed to both of you, so I choose R-help to post it. Are there any plans to jazz up the main R website : http://www.r-project.org The look it have now is the same for a long time and kind of sad compared to other statistical package's website. Of course, the comparison is not fair, since companies are paying web designers to draw lollipop websites ... There have been various suggestions along these lines (check the archives), but there are a number of constraints that make the problem difficult: - there are two web sites, www.r-project.org and cran.r-project.org with different needs. In particular, CRAN must be very low tech because it is mirrored on very diverse sites (including local copies, e.g. on a CDROM). - There are a lot of busy people who need to edit these pages occasionally, so a stable, standard, simple setup is extremely desirable. That means simple HTML to be edited in a text editor, no special CMS. These requirements are quite hard to meet, so expect changes to the web sites to be very time consuming, and possibly rejected en masse in the end. Duncan Murdoch My first idea was to organize some kind of web designing contest. But, I had a small talk with Friedrich Leisch about that, who said that I shouldn't expect too many competitors. So, what about creating a small team, create a home page project and then propose it to the core team. It goes without saying it : The core team has the final word. What do you think ? Who would like to play ? Romain __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] www.r-project.org
what about improving the Links page, with for instance a list of links - such as thoses in task views - grouped by theme, instead of modifying r-project site ? -- --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] CNRS UMR 8090 - http://www-good.ibl.fr Génomique et physiologie moléculaire des maladies métaboliques I.B.L 2eme etage - 1 rue du Pr Calmette, B.P.245, 59019 Lille Cedex Tel : 33 (0)3.20.87.10.44 Fax : 33 (0)3.20.87.10.31 __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] www.r-project.org
Maybe a separate web site that shows R off or maybe just a pointer to the R Graph Gallery. On 4/26/06, Duncan Murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Romain Francois wrote: Dear R users and developpers, My question is adressed to both of you, so I choose R-help to post it. Are there any plans to jazz up the main R website : http://www.r-project.org The look it have now is the same for a long time and kind of sad compared to other statistical package's website. Of course, the comparison is not fair, since companies are paying web designers to draw lollipop websites ... There have been various suggestions along these lines (check the archives), but there are a number of constraints that make the problem difficult: - there are two web sites, www.r-project.org and cran.r-project.org with different needs. In particular, CRAN must be very low tech because it is mirrored on very diverse sites (including local copies, e.g. on a CDROM). - There are a lot of busy people who need to edit these pages occasionally, so a stable, standard, simple setup is extremely desirable. That means simple HTML to be edited in a text editor, no special CMS. These requirements are quite hard to meet, so expect changes to the web sites to be very time consuming, and possibly rejected en masse in the end. Duncan Murdoch My first idea was to organize some kind of web designing contest. But, I had a small talk with Friedrich Leisch about that, who said that I shouldn't expect too many competitors. So, what about creating a small team, create a home page project and then propose it to the core team. It goes without saying it : The core team has the final word. What do you think ? Who would like to play ? Romain __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] www.r-project.org
Gabor Grothendieck ggrothendieck at gmail.com writes: Maybe a separate web site that shows R off or maybe just a pointer to the R Graph Gallery. I think the idea of a pointer to the R Graph Gallery is a better one than changing the current R website. I think that the main R web site should be accessible to as many users as possible, including those visually impaired. I hope EmacsSpeaks Statistics (ESS) people will appreciate this suggestion. I do like nice graphics and eye-candy. The other alternate could be an R-web site that is simple and easily accessible as simple mark-up text, which can be speech rendered. Anupam Tyagi. __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] www.r-project.org
I am coming late into the discussion, so apologies if the following points are redundant. 1) IMHO, the most important feature that would make life a lot easier for everyone is having search engines on the main webpage. I know you can click on the Search on the left hand side pane but putting it on the main webpage is much more useful. We can also have a targets section for the search (c.f. http://finzi.psych.upenn.edu/nmz.html) where one can search mailing list, html Manual, FAQ, user-inputted package name etc. 2) About having explicit URL print, may I suggest using http://maps.google.com approach of using the Link to this page (top right hand of the page) ? 3) I understand that R is restricted in terms of priority and human resources. But given that Asia (e.g. India, Singapore, China) has low labour costs and abundant computing personals, would it not make sense for some Asian research group to offer to spearhead and maintain the website ? From a marketing point of view some nice graphics, search functions and navigation etc would be useful to attract newcomers. There could be a simple version alternative (as it is now) for those who prefer or those who have trouble accessing the site. Just my £0.02. Regards, Adai On Tue, 2006-04-25 at 12:33 -0700, Spencer Graves wrote: Hi, Gabor: inline Gabor Grothendieck wrote: On Windows, right click the web page, choose Properties and copy the url there. That works, and I will use it in the future. Thanks. However, if the subject is not educating Spencer Graves but how to make www.r-project.org more user friendly, then it still might help to display as Address the actual web address of the archive page rather than www.r-project.org. It may not look as pretty, but I'm for function first and cosmetics only if they don't interfere with functionality. Best Wishes, spencer graves On 4/25/06, Spencer Graves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] www.r-project.org
While there is nothing about the r-project site that I would consider fancy, it is pretty functional. I would be interested to hear more about what you hope to accomplish by re-doing the web site. Fancy graphics may just slow down the experience for those not on broadband. After all, the r-help list doesn't even like HTML in email, so it may not like too many fancy stuff on their website either. On 4/25/06, Romain Francois [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear R users and developpers, My question is adressed to both of you, so I choose R-help to post it. Are there any plans to jazz up the main R website : http://www.r-project.org The look it have now is the same for a long time and kind of sad compared to other statistical package's website. Of course, the comparison is not fair, since companies are paying web designers to draw lollipop websites ... My first idea was to organize some kind of web designing contest. But, I had a small talk with Friedrich Leisch about that, who said that I shouldn't expect too many competitors. So, what about creating a small team, create a home page project and then propose it to the core team. It goes without saying it : The core team has the final word. What do you think ? Who would like to play ? Romain -- visit the R Graph Gallery : http://addictedtor.free.fr/graphiques mixmod 1.7 is released : http://www-math.univ-fcomte.fr/mixmod/index.php +---+ | Romain FRANCOIS - http://francoisromain.free.fr | | Doctorant INRIA Futurs / EDF | +---+ __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html [[alternative HTML version deleted]] __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] www.r-project.org
On 04/25/06 18:53, Romain Francois wrote: Dear R users and developpers, My question is adressed to both of you, so I choose R-help to post it. Are there any plans to jazz up the main R website : http://www.r-project.org The look it have now is the same for a long time and kind of sad compared to other statistical package's website. Of course, the comparison is not fair, since companies are paying web designers to draw lollipop websites ... I don't think it is sad at all. It think it is one of the few sites I visit that is accessible, is quick to load, conforms to standards, uses my fonts instead of forcing me to get nose prints on the monitor, is informative, has minimal mindless glitz, and works in any browser. The only thing I might change is to replace the frames with some sort of CSS-based positioning. HOWEVER, the new version of Internet Explorer may totally destroy the usefulness of CSS, so maybe it is better to leave things as they are for now. Jon -- Jonathan Baron, Professor of Psychology, University of Pennsylvania Home page: http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~baron Editor: Judgment and Decision Making (http://journal.sjdm.org) __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] www.r-project.org
Hi Romain, Generally a competition is a bad way of coming up with a new design. It generally emphasises looks over function and, of course, requires people to put in a lot of effort for a small chance of gain. I'd also agree with Friedrich that few people will enter. My opinion is if that people thought it was truly important to have a better R homepage, it would be better to start a collection and hire a professional developer. Otherwise, there is a very real risk that we will end up with something worse than the current. Hadley On 4/25/06, Romain Francois [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear R users and developpers, My question is adressed to both of you, so I choose R-help to post it. Are there any plans to jazz up the main R website : http://www.r-project.org The look it have now is the same for a long time and kind of sad compared to other statistical package's website. Of course, the comparison is not fair, since companies are paying web designers to draw lollipop websites ... My first idea was to organize some kind of web designing contest. But, I had a small talk with Friedrich Leisch about that, who said that I shouldn't expect too many competitors. So, what about creating a small team, create a home page project and then propose it to the core team. It goes without saying it : The core team has the final word. What do you think ? Who would like to play ? Romain -- visit the R Graph Gallery : http://addictedtor.free.fr/graphiques mixmod 1.7 is released : http://www-math.univ-fcomte.fr/mixmod/index.php +---+ | Romain FRANCOIS - http://francoisromain.free.fr | | Doctorant INRIA Futurs / EDF | +---+ __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] www.r-project.org
Romain, The R Web site is working fine. Even if it is not relifted from a long time, it is functional. So, this is the point... and it should remain, at least, as functional as it is. One aspect that could be easily relooked is the CSS file. I would definitely be in favor of a more styled CSS. I mean, there are now new fonts around that are designed to be more readable than Times, Helvetica and Courrier on the screen, and equally fine on the printed material. With CSS, it is always possible to define several fonts for one style, so that the style degrades nicely in case of missing fonts. So, such kind of change is safe, even for very old computers. It would be wonderful if we could get a more actual CSS file for R doc, for the Web site, and I would use the same for the R Wiki. That way, we will got homogeneity in the presentation. So, I definitely encourage you for (microchirurgical) propositions to actualize the presentation of the R Web site, and I will follow the decision of the R Core Team on this topic to make the R Wiki looking similar. Best, Philippe Grosjean Romain Francois wrote: Dear R users and developpers, My question is adressed to both of you, so I choose R-help to post it. Are there any plans to jazz up the main R website : http://www.r-project.org The look it have now is the same for a long time and kind of sad compared to other statistical package's website. Of course, the comparison is not fair, since companies are paying web designers to draw lollipop websites ... My first idea was to organize some kind of web designing contest. But, I had a small talk with Friedrich Leisch about that, who said that I shouldn't expect too many competitors. So, what about creating a small team, create a home page project and then propose it to the core team. It goes without saying it : The core team has the final word. What do you think ? Who would like to play ? Romain __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] www.r-project.org
roger bos wrote: While there is nothing about the r-project site that I would consider fancy, it is pretty functional. I would be interested to hear more about what you hope to accomplish by re-doing the web site. Fancy graphics may just slow down the experience for those not on broadband. After all, the r-help list doesn't even like HTML in email, so it may not like too many fancy stuff on their website either. The frame-based nature of the CRAN pages is slightly problematic, since you click on a menu item and the URL doesn't change. Hence there's no way to send someone a URL that gives them the same view as you'd get if you go to the home page and then click on 'screenshots', for example. Sure you can send them to: http://www.r-project.org/screenshots/screenshots.html but then they dont see the menu. Frames make for simplification of page creation (the menu is in one HTML file and doesn't need to be included on every page) at the expense of usability. Template and content management systems solved this a while ago. It probably wouldn't take long to bash out a serviceable replacement using something like HTML::Mason but then you'd have to find a hosting provider that supported it (or PHP or IYFTLH[1]). I dont think it warrants a full-on CMS given the size of www.r-project.org (not including CRAN stuff). I'd just hack up some m4 scripts and 'include' the menu into a flat file. Perhaps someone could write a web site template system in R... Another option would be to make it completely web 2.0, round the corners, write some ajax, add some blog links, tag soup section[2] Barry [1] Insert Your Favourite Template Language Here [2] Joke __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] www.r-project.org
I must agree with Jon--the site is clean and material is easily found and readily available. I wouldn't want changes which, while visually stimulating, would detract from the clarity of presentation. What I don't see is a way for the visitor to contact the Web page maintainer to comment or suggest changes. Clint Clint BowmanINTERNET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Air Dispersion Modeler INTERNET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Air Quality Program VOICE: (360) 407-6815 Department of Ecology FAX:(360) 407-7534 USPS: PO Box 47600, Olympia, WA 98504-7600 Parcels:300 Desmond Drive, Lacey, WA 98503-1274 On Tue, 25 Apr 2006, Jonathan Baron wrote: On 04/25/06 18:53, Romain Francois wrote: Dear R users and developpers, My question is adressed to both of you, so I choose R-help to post it. Are there any plans to jazz up the main R website : http://www.r-project.org The look it have now is the same for a long time and kind of sad compared to other statistical package's website. Of course, the comparison is not fair, since companies are paying web designers to draw lollipop websites ... I don't think it is sad at all. It think it is one of the few sites I visit that is accessible, is quick to load, conforms to standards, uses my fonts instead of forcing me to get nose prints on the monitor, is informative, has minimal mindless glitz, and works in any browser. The only thing I might change is to replace the frames with some sort of CSS-based positioning. HOWEVER, the new version of Internet Explorer may totally destroy the usefulness of CSS, so maybe it is better to leave things as they are for now. Jon -- Jonathan Baron, Professor of Psychology, University of Pennsylvania Home page: http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~baron Editor: Judgment and Decision Making (http://journal.sjdm.org) __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] www.r-project.org
I volunteer to attempt this, but only after I get my grades in (May 8). If it gets done by someone else before that, I'll be happy. Don't worry. It won't look like my personal page, or even my R page. But I do know quite a bit about CSS. On 04/25/06 12:37, Dirk Eddelbuettel wrote: On 25 April 2006 at 13:18, Jonathan Baron wrote: | The only thing I might change is to replace the frames with some | sort of CSS-based positioning. Yes please! Dirk -- Hell, there are no rules here - we're trying to accomplish something. -- Thomas A. Edison I love this quote. He really did say something like it. Jon -- Jonathan Baron, Professor of Psychology, University of Pennsylvania Home page: http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~baron R search page: http://finzi.psych.upenn.edu/ __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] www.r-project.org
On 25 April 2006 at 13:18, Jonathan Baron wrote: | The only thing I might change is to replace the frames with some | sort of CSS-based positioning. Yes please! Dirk -- Hell, there are no rules here - we're trying to accomplish something. -- Thomas A. Edison __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] www.r-project.org
The R Web site is working fine. Even if it is not relifted from a long time, it is functional. So, this is the point... and it should remain, at least, as functional as it is. As an experienced user of the R website, this probably is true for you. However, there are a number of confusing problems for new users of the site: * how do you download R? * how do you bookmark a specific page? * what is that giant graphic on the home page? Hadley __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] www.r-project.org
I agree it would be worthwhile to make some cosmetic changes to r-project.org (nothing fancy though - no javascript, Flash etc). The general public may not be fully aware of how R compares to other statistical software, and I doubt that a web site which looks like it was put together 10 years ago helps bend the perceptions in the right direction. (Also, can someone finally change the graph on the first page??) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of roger bos Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 1:09 PM To: Romain Francois Cc: RHELP Subject: Re: [R] www.r-project.org While there is nothing about the r-project site that I would consider fancy, it is pretty functional. I would be interested to hear more about what you hope to accomplish by re-doing the web site. Fancy graphics may just slow down the experience for those not on broadband. After all, the r-help list doesn't even like HTML in email, so it may not like too many fancy stuff on their website either. On 4/25/06, Romain Francois [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear R users and developpers, My question is adressed to both of you, so I choose R-help to post it. Are there any plans to jazz up the main R website : http://www.r-project.org The look it have now is the same for a long time and kind of sad compared to other statistical package's website. Of course, the comparison is not fair, since companies are paying web designers to draw lollipop websites ... My first idea was to organize some kind of web designing contest. But, I had a small talk with Friedrich Leisch about that, who said that I shouldn't expect too many competitors. So, what about creating a small team, create a home page project and then propose it to the core team. It goes without saying it : The core team has the final word. What do you think ? Who would like to play ? Romain -- visit the R Graph Gallery : http://addictedtor.free.fr/graphiques mixmod 1.7 is released : http://www-math.univ-fcomte.fr/mixmod/index.php +---+ | Romain FRANCOIS - http://francoisromain.free.fr | | Doctorant INRIA Futurs / EDF | +---+ __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html [[alternative HTML version deleted]] __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] www.r-project.org
OK, I try... What do you think about the fonts and styles of titles versus text in... http://wiki.r-project.org? This is obviously in the line of: would we change the styles in the CSS file (while we are replacing frames with appropriate styles too)? May be am I a little confused. Normal. After 14 hours continuous programming on R, I think that everybody starts to present serious troubles :-( OK... back to work. I still have 3 or 4 hours to finish this $¤!§çà program... Philippe Grosjean Jonathan Baron wrote: I volunteer to attempt this, but only after I get my grades in (May 8). If it gets done by someone else before that, I'll be happy. Don't worry. It won't look like my personal page, or even my R page. But I do know quite a bit about CSS. On 04/25/06 12:37, Dirk Eddelbuettel wrote: On 25 April 2006 at 13:18, Jonathan Baron wrote: | The only thing I might change is to replace the frames with some | sort of CSS-based positioning. Yes please! Dirk -- Hell, there are no rules here - we're trying to accomplish something. -- Thomas A. Edison I love this quote. He really did say something like it. Jon __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] www.r-project.org
On 4/25/06, hadley wickham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The R Web site is working fine. Even if it is not relifted from a long time, it is functional. So, this is the point... and it should remain, at least, as functional as it is. As an experienced user of the R website, this probably is true for you. However, there are a number of confusing problems for new users of the site: * how do you download R? * how do you bookmark a specific page? * what is that giant graphic on the home page? * can't get to contributed docs directly from home page __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] www.r-project.org
On Tue, 2006-04-25 at 14:09 -0400, Gabor Grothendieck wrote: On 4/25/06, hadley wickham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The R Web site is working fine. Even if it is not relifted from a long time, it is functional. So, this is the point... and it should remain, at least, as functional as it is. As an experienced user of the R website, this probably is true for you. However, there are a number of confusing problems for new users of the site: * how do you download R? * how do you bookmark a specific page? * what is that giant graphic on the home page? * can't get to contributed docs directly from home page Isn't Other Contributed Documentation sufficient? Usability guidelines for websites suggest that you should have as few top-level menu items as possible, say 5-6 max... OK the R website is not like insert_company_name.com type website, but you wouldn't want to flood users with too many options up front. G -- %~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~% * Note new Address, Telephone Fax numbers from 6th April 2006 * %~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~% Gavin Simpson ECRC ENSIS [t] +44 (0)20 7679 0522 UCL Department of Geography [f] +44 (0)20 7679 0565 Pearson Building [e] gavin.simpsonATNOSPAMucl.ac.uk Gower Street [w] http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucfagls/cv/ London, UK. [w] http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucfagls/ WC1E 6BT. %~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~% __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] www.r-project.org
Its not hard if you know what to do but if you don't then its a nuisance to figure it out every time. On 4/25/06, Gavin Simpson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 2006-04-25 at 14:09 -0400, Gabor Grothendieck wrote: On 4/25/06, hadley wickham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The R Web site is working fine. Even if it is not relifted from a long time, it is functional. So, this is the point... and it should remain, at least, as functional as it is. As an experienced user of the R website, this probably is true for you. However, there are a number of confusing problems for new users of the site: * how do you download R? * how do you bookmark a specific page? * what is that giant graphic on the home page? * can't get to contributed docs directly from home page Isn't Other Contributed Documentation sufficient? Usability guidelines for websites suggest that you should have as few top-level menu items as possible, say 5-6 max... OK the R website is not like insert_company_name.com type website, but you wouldn't want to flood users with too many options up front. G -- %~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~% * Note new Address, Telephone Fax numbers from 6th April 2006 * %~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~% Gavin Simpson ECRC ENSIS [t] +44 (0)20 7679 0522 UCL Department of Geography [f] +44 (0)20 7679 0565 Pearson Building [e] gavin.simpsonATNOSPAMucl.ac.uk Gower Street [w] http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucfagls/cv/ London, UK. [w] http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucfagls/ WC1E 6BT. %~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~% __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] www.r-project.org
see inline hadley wickham wrote: The R Web site is working fine. snip As an experienced user of the R website, this probably is true for you. However, there are a number of confusing problems for new users of the site: * how do you download R? * how do you bookmark a specific page? *** If I find something with R Site Search on www.r-project.org, I can NOT just copy the web address into an email, because the address is still www.r-project.org. However, if I use RSiteSearch from within R, I get an honest address (like http://finzi.psych.upenn.edu/R/Rhelp02a/archive/47417.html;), which I can then paste into an email like this. If it weren't too difficult to display the address for each item retrieved from the archives, it would make it easier it use R Site Search without opening R. Thanks to all the core R team, including Jonathan Baron, whose support of R Site Search has prevented me from tearing my hair out on many occasions (and I don't have much left to tear out). When people ask me questions about S-Plus, I often go to R Site Search, and then see if I can somehow use in S-Plus any R solution I find. Best Wishes, spencer graves p.s. I also have a strong preference for avoiding fancy features. I've been burned so many times with viruses and software that never performed as advertized for many unknown reasons that I routinely check no when asked if I want to install Micromedia Flash, and I hope I won't have to install it to use a future version of www.r-project.org. * what is that giant graphic on the home page? Hadley __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] www.r-project.org
On Windows, right click the web page, choose Properties and copy the url there. On 4/25/06, Spencer Graves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: see inline hadley wickham wrote: The R Web site is working fine. snip As an experienced user of the R website, this probably is true for you. However, there are a number of confusing problems for new users of the site: * how do you download R? * how do you bookmark a specific page? *** If I find something with R Site Search on www.r-project.org, I can NOT just copy the web address into an email, because the address is still www.r-project.org. However, if I use RSiteSearch from within R, I get an honest address (like http://finzi.psych.upenn.edu/R/Rhelp02a/archive/47417.html;), which I can then paste into an email like this. If it weren't too difficult to display the address for each item retrieved from the archives, it would make it easier it use R Site Search without opening R. Thanks to all the core R team, including Jonathan Baron, whose support of R Site Search has prevented me from tearing my hair out on many occasions (and I don't have much left to tear out). When people ask me questions about S-Plus, I often go to R Site Search, and then see if I can somehow use in S-Plus any R solution I find. Best Wishes, spencer graves p.s. I also have a strong preference for avoiding fancy features. I've been burned so many times with viruses and software that never performed as advertized for many unknown reasons that I routinely check no when asked if I want to install Micromedia Flash, and I hope I won't have to install it to use a future version of www.r-project.org. * what is that giant graphic on the home page? Hadley __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] www.r-project.org
Barry Rowlingson wrote:
The frame-based nature of the CRAN pages is slightly problematic,
since you click on a menu item and the URL doesn't change. Hence there's
no way to send someone a URL that gives them the same view as you'd get
if you go to the home page and then click on 'screenshots', for example.
Sure you can send them to:
http://www.r-project.org/screenshots/screenshots.html
but then they dont see the menu.
Moreover, the menu gets lost also when an element of the menu is opened
in a new window (or tab).
It probably wouldn't take long to bash out a serviceable replacement
using something like HTML::Mason but then you'd have to find a hosting
provider that supported it (or PHP or IYFTLH[1]). I dont think it
warrants a full-on CMS given the size of www.r-project.org (not
including CRAN stuff). I'd just hack up some m4 scripts and 'include'
the menu into a flat file.
I have a perl script that reads a number of HTML files looking for
include directories which instruct it to put at that point the content
of another file.
For example, file index.html may contain the line:
!--#include file=menu.htm--
The script replaces that line with the content of menu.htm.
Thus, the files from the site are processed before being uploaded to the
web site in order to create the final html pages. There is no need for
Apache directives, no scripts, no PHP, no CMS. And more important, no
frames!
Here is the script. You may consider it GPL ;)
#!/usr/bin/perl -w
@files = `ls *.html`;
$outdir = ../;
`mkdir -p $outdir`; #or die Cannot create $outdir;
FILE: foreach $file (@files) {
$file =~ s/\n//g;
open(INPUT, $file) or (warn(*** Cannot read $file\n) and next
FILE);
@buffer = INPUT;
close INPUT;
LINE: foreach $line (@buffer) {
if($line =~ /!--#include file=([\w\.]+)--/) {
open(INPUT, $1) or
(warn(*** Cannot read $1 included in $file\n) and next LINE);
$temp = join(, INPUT);
close INPUT;
$line =~ s[!--#include file=([\w\.]+)--]
[!-- $1 --\n$temp];
print \t$1 included in $file\n;
}
}
open(OUTPUT, $outdir/$file) or
(warn(*** Cannot write $outdir/$file\n) and next FILE);
print OUTPUT @buffer;
close OUTPUT;
print $file processed\n;
}
__
LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo.
Llamadas a fijos y móviles desde 1 céntimo por minuto.
http://es.voice.yahoo.com
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PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] www.r-project.org
Hi, Gabor: inline Gabor Grothendieck wrote: On Windows, right click the web page, choose Properties and copy the url there. That works, and I will use it in the future. Thanks. However, if the subject is not educating Spencer Graves but how to make www.r-project.org more user friendly, then it still might help to display as Address the actual web address of the archive page rather than www.r-project.org. It may not look as pretty, but I'm for function first and cosmetics only if they don't interfere with functionality. Best Wishes, spencer graves On 4/25/06, Spencer Graves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: see inline hadley wickham wrote: The R Web site is working fine. snip As an experienced user of the R website, this probably is true for you. However, there are a number of confusing problems for new users of the site: * how do you download R? * how do you bookmark a specific page? *** If I find something with R Site Search on www.r-project.org, I can NOT just copy the web address into an email, because the address is still www.r-project.org. However, if I use RSiteSearch from within R, I get an honest address (like http://finzi.psych.upenn.edu/R/Rhelp02a/archive/47417.html;), which I can then paste into an email like this. If it weren't too difficult to display the address for each item retrieved from the archives, it would make it easier it use R Site Search without opening R. Thanks to all the core R team, including Jonathan Baron, whose support of R Site Search has prevented me from tearing my hair out on many occasions (and I don't have much left to tear out). When people ask me questions about S-Plus, I often go to R Site Search, and then see if I can somehow use in S-Plus any R solution I find. Best Wishes, spencer graves p.s. I also have a strong preference for avoiding fancy features. I've been burned so many times with viruses and software that never performed as advertized for many unknown reasons that I routinely check no when asked if I want to install Micromedia Flash, and I hope I won't have to install it to use a future version of www.r-project.org. * what is that giant graphic on the home page? Hadley __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] www.r-project.org
Isn't Other Contributed Documentation sufficient? Usability guidelines for websites suggest that you should have as few top-level menu items as possible, say 5-6 max... OK the R website is not like insert_company_name.com type website, but you wouldn't want to flood users with too many options up front. 7 +/- 2 is the number that is usually bandied about (I think based on the number of items most people can hold in their short term memory) However, this is heuristic for the number of top-level categories - there is no reason why there could not be a direct link to contributed documentation from the home page. Hadley __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] www.r-project.org
hadley wickham wrote: Isn't Other Contributed Documentation sufficient? Usability guidelines snip However, this is heuristic for the number of top-level categories - there is no reason why there could not be a direct link to contributed documentation from the home page. I find it a minor inconvenience to have to select a CRAN mirror before I can look at the on-line documentation for contributed packages. Might it make sense to store the last CRAN mirror used in a cookie and offer that a the default when you want to transfer people to a mirror? (I don't think it should be totally hidden from the user, because occasionally one CRAN mirror will have problems that don't affect others.) Again, I wouldn't have anyone change this just for me, but if you thought it might make the web site more friendly for others (AND it could be fairly easily done), then you might consider it. Best wishes, spencer graves Hadley __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
