RE: [RC] Sacred Story Part # 3 -conclusion With REPLY
Well… okay… but you have to live that long. From: radicalcentrism@googlegroups.com On Behalf Of Billy Rojas Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2018 4:25 PM To: radicalcentrism@googlegroups.com Cc: Billy Rojas <1billyro...@buglephilosophy.com> Subject: Re: [RC] Sacred Story Part # 3 -conclusion With REPLY Chris: Thanks for the kind words. BTW, anybody can become an expert in world religions and the history of religion. All it takes is intense study of various religions and their histories for maybe 40 or 50 years. Anyone can do it... :-/ Billy _ From: radicalcentrism@googlegroups.com <mailto:radicalcentrism@googlegroups.com> mailto:radicalcentrism@googlegroups.com> > on behalf of Chris Hahn mailto:c...@2chahn.com> > Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2018 10:15 AM To: RadicalCentrism@googlegroups.com <mailto:RadicalCentrism@googlegroups.com> Subject: RE: [RC] Sacred Story Part # 3 -conclusion An amazing work Billy. The analogies are very interesting. Your knowledge of religions is astounding to me. Chris From: radicalcentrism@googlegroups.com <mailto:radicalcentrism@googlegroups.com> mailto:radicalcentrism@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of Billy Rojas Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2018 2:27 AM To: Centroids Discussions mailto:radicalcentrism@googlegroups.com> > Cc: Billy Rojas <1billyro...@buglephilosophy.com <mailto:1billyro...@buglephilosophy.com> > Subject: [RC] Sacred Story Part # 3 -conclusion The core of the "passion narrative" in the Inanna story concerns her actions following Dumuzi's death. What should be understood was that, if not at the beginning in 2650 BC, no later than ca. 2350 BC, Inanna was regarded as an incarnate Goddess. This was not merely something along the lines of Gilgamesh. In his case he was said to have been one third man and two-thirds divine being in the form of a human being. About which my skepticism could not be greater even if, anon, Gilgamesh, also an historic person, clearly was a "hero." Take this in the sense of leading characters in the Odyssey, a book that was at least partly modeled on the saga of the Epic of Gilgamesh, the world's first "novel." The Mesopotamians did not understand it that way, for them it had the status, or close to the status, of scripture. In any case, the Sumerians and those who followed them, held the belief that the "stars" -some of which were planets- embodied deities. Above all celestial bodies was an unseen deity and his unseen female deity wife, but after that among all deities, at the highest rank at some periods of history anyway, was Inanna, viz, at a later time known as Ishtar. Her celestial brother was Shamash, Utu in Sumerian language, God of the Sun, and deity of Justice. Inanna first existed in the heavens as "Venus" and at some point in, say, about 2675 BC, she manifested on Earth as a baby girl, then grown up into a young woman. This, whatever anyone today may think, was what the Mesopotamians believed. The point here is to establish what the Sumerians and other peoples believed, not to pass judgement on truth claims. The "office" of High Priestess was exalted. In some respects you can think of her as a female pope, that was approximately her status, with the qualification that in some respects she was more important to the Sumerians than the pope is for Catholics, at least to speak of the "modern" papacy starting in the 19th century. In the pre-modern era the popes had powers that were closer to that of the High Priestess as known in the Sumerian era. This power not only derived from her divine attributes but from the fact that the temples of that long past era were de facto banks -that was where the bulk of the wealth of the state was sequestered, where economic records were kept, where specie (gold, silver, gemstones) was kept, or large quantities were kept, and the High Priestess oversaw the temple institution as well as acting as landlady over large tracts of land; and many lower rank priestesses were land owners in their own right. Which is to say that it was no small thing when Inanna mourned for Dumuzi and not only mourned, sought to free him from the bonds of death. For Inanna resolved to visit the Netherworld (really not any different than the Hebrew concept for Sheol) to secure Dumuzi's release from its grasp by sacrificing her own life if that was what it might take. This is the crux of the passion narrative. The exact details of this are unclear but the story has it that Inanna visited the entrance to the Netherworld, presumably a physical place, perhaps in the mountains somewhere. Or possibly in or near the city of Cutha, whose chief deity was none other than Chemosh, in later tradition anyway, the husband of the Queen of the Underworld,
Re: [RC] Sacred Story Part # 3 -conclusion With REPLY
Chris: Thanks for the kind words. BTW, anybody can become an expert in world religions and the history of religion. All it takes is intense study of various religions and their histories for maybe 40 or 50 years. Anyone can do it... :-/ Billy From: radicalcentrism@googlegroups.com on behalf of Chris Hahn Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2018 10:15 AM To: RadicalCentrism@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: [RC] Sacred Story Part # 3 -conclusion An amazing work Billy. The analogies are very interesting. Your knowledge of religions is astounding to me. Chris From: radicalcentrism@googlegroups.com On Behalf Of Billy Rojas Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2018 2:27 AM To: Centroids Discussions Cc: Billy Rojas <1billyro...@buglephilosophy.com> Subject: [RC] Sacred Story Part # 3 -conclusion The core of the "passion narrative" in the Inanna story concerns her actions following Dumuzi's death. What should be understood was that, if not at the beginning in 2650 BC, no later than ca. 2350 BC, Inanna was regarded as an incarnate Goddess. This was not merely something along the lines of Gilgamesh. In his case he was said to have been one third man and two-thirds divine being in the form of a human being. About which my skepticism could not be greater even if, anon, Gilgamesh, also an historic person, clearly was a "hero." Take this in the sense of leading characters in the Odyssey, a book that was at least partly modeled on the saga of the Epic of Gilgamesh, the world's first "novel." The Mesopotamians did not understand it that way, for them it had the status, or close to the status, of scripture. In any case, the Sumerians and those who followed them, held the belief that the "stars" -some of which were planets- embodied deities. Above all celestial bodies was an unseen deity and his unseen female deity wife, but after that among all deities, at the highest rank at some periods of history anyway, was Inanna, viz, at a later time known as Ishtar. Her celestial brother was Shamash, Utu in Sumerian language, God of the Sun, and deity of Justice. Inanna first existed in the heavens as "Venus" and at some point in, say, about 2675 BC, she manifested on Earth as a baby girl, then grown up into a young woman. This, whatever anyone today may think, was what the Mesopotamians believed. The point here is to establish what the Sumerians and other peoples believed, not to pass judgement on truth claims. The "office" of High Priestess was exalted. In some respects you can think of her as a female pope, that was approximately her status, with the qualification that in some respects she was more important to the Sumerians than the pope is for Catholics, at least to speak of the "modern" papacy starting in the 19th century. In the pre-modern era the popes had powers that were closer to that of the High Priestess as known in the Sumerian era. This power not only derived from her divine attributes but from the fact that the temples of that long past era were de facto banks -that was where the bulk of the wealth of the state was sequestered, where economic records were kept, where specie (gold, silver, gemstones) was kept, or large quantities were kept, and the High Priestess oversaw the temple institution as well as acting as landlady over large tracts of land; and many lower rank priestesses were land owners in their own right. Which is to say that it was no small thing when Inanna mourned for Dumuzi and not only mourned, sought to free him from the bonds of death. For Inanna resolved to visit the Netherworld (really not any different than the Hebrew concept for Sheol) to secure Dumuzi's release from its grasp by sacrificing her own life if that was what it might take. This is the crux of the passion narrative. The exact details of this are unclear but the story has it that Inanna visited the entrance to the Netherworld, presumably a physical place, perhaps in the mountains somewhere. Or possibly in or near the city of Cutha, whose chief deity was none other than Chemosh, in later tradition anyway, the husband of the Queen of the Underworld, Ereshkigal. Which may sound a little complicated but, when you think about it all, this story isn't worse in complexity than any of the Gospel narratives. BTW, Inanna had three sisters. You have been introduced to Geshtinanna, and Ereshkigal was another; the third was Saltu, later known as Discordia, as the name suggests, the deity of discord -unpredictability, biting humor, irrationality in human affairs, and so forth. It is Ereshkigal who concerns us now. And in the original Sumerian story, Ereshkigal was supreme in the abode of the dead. She made all the rules and decreed the fates of all the deceased. Ereshkigal's "residence" was in the low
Re: [RC] Sacred Story Part # 3 -conclusion
From: radicalcentrism@googlegroups.com on behalf of Chris Hahn Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2018 10:15 AM To: RadicalCentrism@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: [RC] Sacred Story Part # 3 -conclusion An amazing work Billy. The analogies are very interesting. Your knowledge of religions is astounding to me. Chris From: radicalcentrism@googlegroups.com On Behalf Of Billy Rojas Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2018 2:27 AM To: Centroids Discussions Cc: Billy Rojas <1billyro...@buglephilosophy.com> Subject: [RC] Sacred Story Part # 3 -conclusion The core of the "passion narrative" in the Inanna story concerns her actions following Dumuzi's death. What should be understood was that, if not at the beginning in 2650 BC, no later than ca. 2350 BC, Inanna was regarded as an incarnate Goddess. This was not merely something along the lines of Gilgamesh. In his case he was said to have been one third man and two-thirds divine being in the form of a human being. About which my skepticism could not be greater even if, anon, Gilgamesh, also an historic person, clearly was a "hero." Take this in the sense of leading characters in the Odyssey, a book that was at least partly modeled on the saga of the Epic of Gilgamesh, the world's first "novel." The Mesopotamians did not understand it that way, for them it had the status, or close to the status, of scripture. In any case, the Sumerians and those who followed them, held the belief that the "stars" -some of which were planets- embodied deities. Above all celestial bodies was an unseen deity and his unseen female deity wife, but after that among all deities, at the highest rank at some periods of history anyway, was Inanna, viz, at a later time known as Ishtar. Her celestial brother was Shamash, Utu in Sumerian language, God of the Sun, and deity of Justice. Inanna first existed in the heavens as "Venus" and at some point in, say, about 2675 BC, she manifested on Earth as a baby girl, then grown up into a young woman. This, whatever anyone today may think, was what the Mesopotamians believed. The point here is to establish what the Sumerians and other peoples believed, not to pass judgement on truth claims. The "office" of High Priestess was exalted. In some respects you can think of her as a female pope, that was approximately her status, with the qualification that in some respects she was more important to the Sumerians than the pope is for Catholics, at least to speak of the "modern" papacy starting in the 19th century. In the pre-modern era the popes had powers that were closer to that of the High Priestess as known in the Sumerian era. This power not only derived from her divine attributes but from the fact that the temples of that long past era were de facto banks -that was where the bulk of the wealth of the state was sequestered, where economic records were kept, where specie (gold, silver, gemstones) was kept, or large quantities were kept, and the High Priestess oversaw the temple institution as well as acting as landlady over large tracts of land; and many lower rank priestesses were land owners in their own right. Which is to say that it was no small thing when Inanna mourned for Dumuzi and not only mourned, sought to free him from the bonds of death. For Inanna resolved to visit the Netherworld (really not any different than the Hebrew concept for Sheol) to secure Dumuzi's release from its grasp by sacrificing her own life if that was what it might take. This is the crux of the passion narrative. The exact details of this are unclear but the story has it that Inanna visited the entrance to the Netherworld, presumably a physical place, perhaps in the mountains somewhere. Or possibly in or near the city of Cutha, whose chief deity was none other than Chemosh, in later tradition anyway, the husband of the Queen of the Underworld, Ereshkigal. Which may sound a little complicated but, when you think about it all, this story isn't worse in complexity than any of the Gospel narratives. BTW, Inanna had three sisters. You have been introduced to Geshtinanna, and Ereshkigal was another; the third was Saltu, later known as Discordia, as the name suggests, the deity of discord -unpredictability, biting humor, irrationality in human affairs, and so forth. It is Ereshkigal who concerns us now. And in the original Sumerian story, Ereshkigal was supreme in the abode of the dead. She made all the rules and decreed the fates of all the deceased. Ereshkigal's "residence" was in the lowest strata of the Netherworld, its seventh subterranean level. We learn that the body of Dumuzi was being kept in that 7th level. Inanna had to get to that level in order to persuade Ereshkigal to release Dumuzi. To make that possible, In
RE: [RC] Sacred Story Part # 3 -conclusion
An amazing work Billy. The analogies are very interesting. Your knowledge of religions is astounding to me. Chris From: radicalcentrism@googlegroups.com On Behalf Of Billy Rojas Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2018 2:27 AM To: Centroids Discussions Cc: Billy Rojas <1billyro...@buglephilosophy.com> Subject: [RC] Sacred Story Part # 3 -conclusion The core of the "passion narrative" in the Inanna story concerns her actions following Dumuzi's death. What should be understood was that, if not at the beginning in 2650 BC, no later than ca. 2350 BC, Inanna was regarded as an incarnate Goddess. This was not merely something along the lines of Gilgamesh. In his case he was said to have been one third man and two-thirds divine being in the form of a human being. About which my skepticism could not be greater even if, anon, Gilgamesh, also an historic person, clearly was a "hero." Take this in the sense of leading characters in the Odyssey, a book that was at least partly modeled on the saga of the Epic of Gilgamesh, the world's first "novel." The Mesopotamians did not understand it that way, for them it had the status, or close to the status, of scripture. In any case, the Sumerians and those who followed them, held the belief that the "stars" -some of which were planets- embodied deities. Above all celestial bodies was an unseen deity and his unseen female deity wife, but after that among all deities, at the highest rank at some periods of history anyway, was Inanna, viz, at a later time known as Ishtar. Her celestial brother was Shamash, Utu in Sumerian language, God of the Sun, and deity of Justice. Inanna first existed in the heavens as "Venus" and at some point in, say, about 2675 BC, she manifested on Earth as a baby girl, then grown up into a young woman. This, whatever anyone today may think, was what the Mesopotamians believed. The point here is to establish what the Sumerians and other peoples believed, not to pass judgement on truth claims. The "office" of High Priestess was exalted. In some respects you can think of her as a female pope, that was approximately her status, with the qualification that in some respects she was more important to the Sumerians than the pope is for Catholics, at least to speak of the "modern" papacy starting in the 19th century. In the pre-modern era the popes had powers that were closer to that of the High Priestess as known in the Sumerian era. This power not only derived from her divine attributes but from the fact that the temples of that long past era were de facto banks -that was where the bulk of the wealth of the state was sequestered, where economic records were kept, where specie (gold, silver, gemstones) was kept, or large quantities were kept, and the High Priestess oversaw the temple institution as well as acting as landlady over large tracts of land; and many lower rank priestesses were land owners in their own right. Which is to say that it was no small thing when Inanna mourned for Dumuzi and not only mourned, sought to free him from the bonds of death. For Inanna resolved to visit the Netherworld (really not any different than the Hebrew concept for Sheol) to secure Dumuzi's release from its grasp by sacrificing her own life if that was what it might take. This is the crux of the passion narrative. The exact details of this are unclear but the story has it that Inanna visited the entrance to the Netherworld, presumably a physical place, perhaps in the mountains somewhere. Or possibly in or near the city of Cutha, whose chief deity was none other than Chemosh, in later tradition anyway, the husband of the Queen of the Underworld, Ereshkigal. Which may sound a little complicated but, when you think about it all, this story isn't worse in complexity than any of the Gospel narratives. BTW, Inanna had three sisters. You have been introduced to Geshtinanna, and Ereshkigal was another; the third was Saltu, later known as Discordia, as the name suggests, the deity of discord -unpredictability, biting humor, irrationality in human affairs, and so forth. It is Ereshkigal who concerns us now. And in the original Sumerian story, Ereshkigal was supreme in the abode of the dead. She made all the rules and decreed the fates of all the deceased. Ereshkigal's "residence" was in the lowest strata of the Netherworld, its seventh subterranean level. We learn that the body of Dumuzi was being kept in that 7th level. Inanna had to get to that level in order to persuade Ereshkigal to release Dumuzi. To make that possible, Inanna had to persuade each of seven gate-keepers to allow her to enter each of their domains. At each gate the admission was her willingness to remove one "veil." viz., article of clothing. As
[RC] Sacred Story Part # 3 -conclusion
The core of the "passion narrative" in the Inanna story concerns her actions following Dumuzi's death. What should be understood was that, if not at the beginning in 2650 BC, no later than ca. 2350 BC, Inanna was regarded as an incarnate Goddess. This was not merely something along the lines of Gilgamesh. In his case he was said to have been one third man and two-thirds divine being in the form of a human being. About which my skepticism could not be greater even if, anon, Gilgamesh, also an historic person, clearly was a "hero." Take this in the sense of leading characters in the Odyssey, a book that was at least partly modeled on the saga of the Epic of Gilgamesh, the world's first "novel." The Mesopotamians did not understand it that way, for them it had the status, or close to the status, of scripture. In any case, the Sumerians and those who followed them, held the belief that the "stars" -some of which were planets- embodied deities. Above all celestial bodies was an unseen deity and his unseen female deity wife, but after that among all deities, at the highest rank at some periods of history anyway, was Inanna, viz, at a later time known as Ishtar. Her celestial brother was Shamash, Utu in Sumerian language, God of the Sun, and deity of Justice. Inanna first existed in the heavens as "Venus" and at some point in, say, about 2675 BC, she manifested on Earth as a baby girl, then grown up into a young woman. This, whatever anyone today may think, was what the Mesopotamians believed. The point here is to establish what the Sumerians and other peoples believed, not to pass judgement on truth claims. The "office" of High Priestess was exalted. In some respects you can think of her as a female pope, that was approximately her status, with the qualification that in some respects she was more important to the Sumerians than the pope is for Catholics, at least to speak of the "modern" papacy starting in the 19th century. In the pre-modern era the popes had powers that were closer to that of the High Priestess as known in the Sumerian era. This power not only derived from her divine attributes but from the fact that the temples of that long past era were de facto banks -that was where the bulk of the wealth of the state was sequestered, where economic records were kept, where specie (gold, silver, gemstones) was kept, or large quantities were kept, and the High Priestess oversaw the temple institution as well as acting as landlady over large tracts of land; and many lower rank priestesses were land owners in their own right. Which is to say that it was no small thing when Inanna mourned for Dumuzi and not only mourned, sought to free him from the bonds of death. For Inanna resolved to visit the Netherworld (really not any different than the Hebrew concept for Sheol) to secure Dumuzi's release from its grasp by sacrificing her own life if that was what it might take. This is the crux of the passion narrative. The exact details of this are unclear but the story has it that Inanna visited the entrance to the Netherworld, presumably a physical place, perhaps in the mountains somewhere. Or possibly in or near the city of Cutha, whose chief deity was none other than Chemosh, in later tradition anyway, the husband of the Queen of the Underworld, Ereshkigal. Which may sound a little complicated but, when you think about it all, this story isn't worse in complexity than any of the Gospel narratives. BTW, Inanna had three sisters. You have been introduced to Geshtinanna, and Ereshkigal was another; the third was Saltu, later known as Discordia, as the name suggests, the deity of discord -unpredictability, biting humor, irrationality in human affairs, and so forth. It is Ereshkigal who concerns us now. And in the original Sumerian story, Ereshkigal was supreme in the abode of the dead. She made all the rules and decreed the fates of all the deceased. Ereshkigal's "residence" was in the lowest strata of the Netherworld, its seventh subterranean level. We learn that the body of Dumuzi was being kept in that 7th level. Inanna had to get to that level in order to persuade Ereshkigal to release Dumuzi. To make that possible, Inanna had to persuade each of seven gate-keepers to allow her to enter each of their domains. At each gate the admission was her willingness to remove one "veil." viz., article of clothing. As you might surmise this theme eventually was secularized as a form of dance known historically as the "dance of the seven veils." Which, of course, surfaces in the New Testament, in that case motivated by the worst kind of intent, causing death to the righteous. In the Sumerian original the motivation was the resurrection from death of someone who was righteous. To summarize, in the end, Inanna was as naked as she had been as a newborn infant when she was incarnated on Earth. She also had to pay a price a
