[SlimDevices: Radio] Sync is very slightly off.

2009-10-02 Thread Ikabob

I have an SB3 in one room and the newly received SB Radio close in
another room. I tried to sync them and was successful except that there
is a very slight delay between them. The radio is afraction ahead. Is
there a way to fine tune ?


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Sync is very slightly off.

2009-10-02 Thread iPhone

Ikabob;465503 Wrote: 
> I have an SB3 in one room and the newly received SB Radio close in
> another room. I tried to sync them and was successful except that there
> is a very slight delay between them. The radio is afraction ahead. Is
> there a way to fine tune ?

Yes, to some extent.

In SBS goto Setting>Player> (Pick a Player)

In the sub menu to the right of the player name, drop all the way to
the bottom and pick Synchronize, then use the panel controls to make
adjustments.


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2.35:1   

Living Room:
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Signature, Two 2Wq subs, VCC-2, Two VSM-1  

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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Sync is very slightly off.

2009-10-02 Thread Ikabob

Thankswhat is SBS again?


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Sync is very slightly off.

2009-10-02 Thread iPhone

Ikabob;465534 Wrote: 
> Thankswhat is SBS again?

Sorry the new name for SqueezeCenter. You said you had a SB Radio so
that means you have upgraded to SqueezeBoxServer (SBS) 7.4 on your PC or
Server now, correct?

Go to the WebUI in SBS 7.4, lower right corner clock on Settings, then
Player> (Pick a Player)

In the sub menu to the right of the player name, drop all the way to
the bottom and pick Synchronize, then use the panel controls to make
adjustments.


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Media Room:
Transporter, VTL TL-6.5 Signature Pre-Amp, Ayre MX-R Mono's, VeraStarr
6.4SE 6-channel Amp, Vandersteen Speakers: Quatro Mains, VCC-5 Reference
Center, four VSM-1 Signatures, Video: Runco RS 900 CineWide AutoScope
2.35:1   

Living Room:
Duet, ADCOM GTP-870HD, Cinepro 3K6SE III Gold, Vandersteen Model 3A
Signature, Two 2Wq subs, VCC-2, Two VSM-1  

Kitchen: Squeezebox BOOM
Bedroom: Second Boom
Bathroom: Squeezebox Radio
Ford Thunderbird: Duet, Mac Mini
Ford Expedition: SB Touch, USB drive

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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Sync is very slightly off.

2009-10-03 Thread Ikabob

Yes, I upgraded to7.4.  Thanks for your response. I am really enjoying
this Squeeze stuff. Everything about it is very cool. Now I cannot wait
till the Touch release. I know I am just using the basics so I am also
looking forward to learning about some of the plugins.et cetera. 

and, I appreciate these forums. Thanks.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Sync is very slightly off.

2009-10-03 Thread awy

It is interesting that you say it is slightly off. It should not be. How
much do you mean?


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Sync is very slightly off.

2009-10-03 Thread Ikabob

I'd say less than a second .  One is in the family room and the other
the kitchen. So they are heard together.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Sync is very slightly off.

2009-10-03 Thread SteveEast

What platform are you using for SqueezeBoxServer?

Steve.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Sync is very slightly off.

2009-10-03 Thread awy

Ikabob;465875 Wrote: 
> I'd say less than a second .  One is in the family room and the other
> the kitchen. So they are heard together.

That does not sound like they are synced at all. It should be better
than 30ms.

You could try enabling some logging: player.sync=debug to see what is
happening.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Sync is very slightly off.

2009-10-04 Thread Ikabob

Thanks. I think it is better now. Thanks for the tips.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Sync is very slightly off.

2009-10-04 Thread Matt Wise

I spent most of last night and today debugging what-i-think is the same
issue. I opened bug (https://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14570)
14570 on this issue. In my case its been reproducible today, but on
other days it seems just fine. The sync gets worse with higher-bitrate
audio (flac) and becomes tolerable with low-bitrate audio (pandora). 

Could you read through my bug and see if this is the same behavior you
saw?


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Sync is very slightly off.

2009-10-04 Thread Ikabob

When I used it last all was fine. I will ex-periment with different
stations and check it out. As of not though it syncs ok. Maybe since the
baby boom was new it had to adjust or equilibrate.   


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Sync is very slightly off.

2009-10-05 Thread SteveEast

Ikabob;466768 Wrote: 
> When I used it last all was fine. I will ex-periment with different
> stations and check it out. As of not though it syncs ok. Maybe since the
> baby boom was new it had to adjust or equilibrate.   

No burn-in on this gear :)

Steve.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Sync is very slightly off.

2009-10-05 Thread Phil Leigh

yesterday I had a wireless boom+radio+wired Touch all synced and playing
flac's as mp3 @320 and iPlayer.

The Radio and Boom were literally sitting next to each other and the
sync was rock solid - less than 20ms of difference I'd say - you
couldn't heard that slight ADT effect you get if things are a bit off.

I bet that idea of using 2 radios (or Booms!) for wide stereo would
work...
Very impressive.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Sync is very slightly off.

2009-10-05 Thread Matt Wise

Glad its working for you... I don't by any means think that this is a
general issue with sync -- I suspect that there is some "state" that a
Squeezeplay-based player can get into that suddenly causes problems.
Keep testing though!


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Sync is very slightly off.

2009-10-05 Thread Ikabob

I think it is going to be fine. Thanks.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Sync is very slightly off.

2009-10-07 Thread Matt Wise

I just noticed one thing that was causing some issues... i had crossfade
ON for one player, and OFF for another. I meant to have them all off for
troubleshooting, so perhaps that was doing some strange things.

Can you check your settings and make sure things like crossfade are
either off or on?


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Sync is very slightly off.

2009-10-07 Thread Ikabob

Matt Wise;468812 Wrote: 
> I just noticed one thing that was causing some issues... i had crossfade
> ON for one player, and OFF for another. I meant to have them all off for
> troubleshooting, so perhaps that was doing some strange things.
> 
> Can you check your settings and make sure things like crossfade are
> either off or on?

Thanks Matt. The crossfade was off on both the SB3 and the Radio. I
noticed that the sync was only off very slightly on radio station
selections. On music services (Pandora) ithe sync was right-on. Is there
a way to fine tune sync?. I do not consider this to be a big problem
right now.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Sync is very slightly off.

2009-10-08 Thread Ikabob

On second thought Matt...maybe it is a problem because THE WIFE(!!!) had
turned off the radio because it was annoying to HER. That, alone, does
make it a major prob. 

However, she really does love the Squeezeboxes that we have now and she
is looking forward to the Touch. We must keep her happy. Right?   :-)


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Sync is very slightly off.

2009-10-16 Thread NikolajC

awy: I have sync issues too. Have opened a but here:

https://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14626

Would love to hear your input.

Also had some logs and input here:

https://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14570

But that bug kinda changed direction.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Sync is very slightly off.

2009-10-16 Thread Ikabob

Can we expect to achieve very good synchronization while on MSB.com
alone?  I came home and noticed that my SB3 had a message indicating
that it was "working on synchronizing" or something similar to that. I
had never seen this message before. Also something unusual, the Radio
had a message stating that there was a new download to install which
I did. I thought that maybe it was a fix to the sync being slightly off,
but such was not the case. The sync is still slightly off at this time.
I am going to check it out again later. Thanks.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Sync is very slightly off.

2009-10-18 Thread Ikabob

Well,I thought that this had been corrected but today the sync is so far
off that it is almost like unsynced. There was a day that there was
message on the SB3 "waiting for sync" and that day things seemed to be
getting better. But not today. I think this is a serious issue because
the WIFE notices it . Is it possible to fix it? I am looking forward to
the Touch.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Sync is very slightly off.

2009-10-18 Thread cornflakeguy

I'm watching this thread closely. I have a Boom, plan to buy a Touch for
the Living Room, and plan to buy 3 Radio's for the rest of the House.

I want all the Units SOLELY for Sync. If Sync is not flawless I need to
rethink this.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Sync is very slightly off.

2009-10-19 Thread Ikabob

I am sure that Logitech will fix this. I think they are already working
on it. Like you ,  many many customers count on syncing all their
Squeezes together.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Sync is very slightly off.

2009-10-19 Thread DigitalMitch

Conflakeguy,

read the following error cases carefully. I can't say that sync is
flawless, but when it is working (99% of the time), I can't spot any
timing difference between my players. The 1% is below ..

Ikabob, Matt,

I also see occasionally sync. issues, which are normally provoked by
some other event and then leave one or more players off by between 0.5
and 2 seconds. The player then stays that way, even if stopped started,
etc. but will re-sync perfectly when power-cycled (via mains for
SB3,Boom and SBR, the Radio via press and hold standby).

Cross-fade is always set to 'none'.

For me, the problem was most noticeable on 7.3.3 and I suspect was
aligned to the rebuffering problem
(https://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13092) which was reduced
by upgrading router firmware and almost eliminated by using Homeplugs
instead of wi-fi.

With 7.4 production, I have mothablled an SBR (and iHome clock radio)
and replaced with a Radio, which is currently running wireless (in
anticipation of battery and mobility). 

When I then use SqueezePlay Beta, I have problems connecting to my
library (some days fine, others awful). Whilst Squeezeplay is trying to
connect the existing sync'd streams stutter (as they do when a new
player is added). Just tried to replicate using Squeezeplay to provoke
but it wouldn't find server and sync was undamaged, will try again
tomorrow.

I concur with Matt, in post #15, somehow a player (or more than one)
gets into a state where it is out of sync and is only reset by
power-cycling.

Mitch


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Sync is very slightly off.

2009-10-19 Thread Ikabob

Thank you DigitalMitch. I definitely agree that this is not a problem
with every radio station but ,yes,some are off bye .5-2 seconds and so
it IS becoming less of aproblem. If ,as you advised,it can be corrected
on those instances where it is aproblem by simply power-cycling (can you
define p-cling?)then I am satisfied.thank you very much for this
explanation.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Sync is very slightly off.

2009-10-19 Thread toby10

Ikabob:  Try streaming the same station(s) you are having sync issues
with on MySB using SBS, see if the sync is maintained tighter.

My guess is you are experiencing "drift" on MySB.  Unless they changed
how players function when synced on MySB, here is the difference between
SBS and MySB sync when playing a radio stream:

SBS:  server gets a single stream, shares it with all synced players,
better sync
MySB: each player connected to MySB gets it's own unique stream even
when "synced", not so great sync (i.e.  drift)

Put another way:  If you are streaming a 128k radio stream to four
"synced" players:
SBS = 1x128k stream via your ISP, shares this single stream with four
players, ISP usage = 128k
MySB = 4x128k = 512k, each player getting it's own unique stream, ISP
usage = 512k


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Sync is very slightly off.

2009-10-19 Thread Ikabob

Very good explanation Toby.  Thank you very much. I will try syncing
with sbs as you suggested and compare. I can live with the slight
discrepancies on msb.com. I will also try the power-cycling maneuver
too(once I findout what exactly that is).   Thanks.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Sync is very slightly off.

2009-10-19 Thread aubuti

Ikabob;474424 Wrote: 
> I will also try the power-cycling maneuver too(once I findout what
> exactly that is).   Thanks.
Power cycling is basically turning it off, waiting for a little while
(depends on device, but 30 seconds is more than enough), and turning it
back on. As DigitalMitch said -"(via mains for SB3,Boom and SBR, the
Radio via press and hold standby)"-, meaning you should physically
unplug an SB3, Boom, or SB Receiver, for the simple reason that they
don't have on/off switches. 

On the SB Radio, make sure you hold the on/off/standby button (lower
right) long enough that it completely powers off. Or simply unplug that
just like you do the rest of the gear.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Sync is very slightly off.

2009-10-19 Thread Keymaster

Had a sync issue over the weekend between Radio and TP playing 24/96
FLAC (but I assumed it might have been related to TP playing 24/96
native and Radio having to engage SOX)


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Sync is very slightly off.

2009-10-20 Thread DigitalMitch

thanks aubuti - beat me to expanding 'power cycling'. Worth noting that
'standby' mode does NOT have the same impac to sync.

general - my sync. issues have been whilst streaming FLAC from SBS to
multiple players. I haven't in the past tended to listen to many radio
stations but have recently started listening more to last.fm and BBC
radio 6. Haven't had any sync. occurences when listening to either.

Mitch


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Sync is very slightly off.

2009-10-20 Thread TimM

DigitalMitch;474797 Wrote: 
> thanks aubuti - beat me to expanding 'power cycling'. Worth noting that
> 'standby' mode does NOT have the same impac to sync.
> 
> general - my sync. issues have been whilst streaming FLAC from SBS to
> multiple players. I haven't in the past tended to listen to many radio
> stations but have recently started listening more to last.fm and BBC
> radio 6. Haven't had any sync. occurences when listening to either.
> 
> Mitch

Pretty much the same here except replacing apple lossless for FLAC. I
have 'cured' it for the time being as I can run the radio wired, but
that's not really what we bought it for.

Pretty much like the Boom, and prior SB2/3's I would hope that 7.41 etc
will sort this out before the battery is available in the UK.

(Vista 64b/ 2 x SB2, 1 x SB3, 1 x Boom, 1 x Radio)


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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Sync is very slightly off.

2009-10-21 Thread Ikabob

The sync between my SB3 and SB Radio seems to be right on sync! It is
nice knowing that the highly skilled Logitech technologists are working
to perfect and upgrade the products. Thank you, the Squeezebox system is
awesome! I am looking forward to the Touch and to the battery for the
Radio.


-- 
Ikabob

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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Sync is very slightly off.

2009-10-23 Thread Ikabob

Ikabob;475341 Wrote: 
> The sync between my SB3 and SB Radio seems to be right on sync! It is
> nice knowing that the highly skilled Logitech technologists are working
> to perfect and upgrade the products. Thank you, the Squeezebox system is
> awesome! I am looking forward to the Touch and to the battery for the
> Radio.

Well today , for some reason??, the sync is way off. A power- cycle
doesn't even help. I can' t understand why one day it is good and then
not. I'm on msb.com alone. Can sync be perfected? I'm using 4.2.1 /r
latest nightly update. Anysuggestions?


-- 
Ikabob

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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Sync is very slightly off.

2009-10-23 Thread Mnyb

Ikabob;476374 Wrote: 
> Well today , for some reason??, the sync is way off. A power- cycle
> doesn't even help. I can' t understand why one day it is good and then
> not. I'm on msb.com alone. Can sync be perfected? I'm using 7.4.2 /r
> latest nightly update. Anysuggestions?

You post is a little contradictory ?

If your connected directly to msb.com sync can not be expected to work
.

If you are listening trough your server sync should work .
Does it work with local files ? try that .
It should work with radio streams to, when you are listening to "radio"
trough your local server AND syncs then the server is in reality only
using one stream from the web station and proxies it to your multiple
players.
But to rule out the server/network stuff try with local files first.

If you are listening directly trough msb.com every sb gets it's own
stream even if they are on the same "radio channel" and as the players
are controlled from afar all things can and will happen regarding sync.


-- 
Mnyb



No it can NOT be controlled with iTunes

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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Sync is very slightly off.

2009-10-23 Thread Ikabob

Ok.  Thanks.  I thought that sync would be able to work with msb.com. I
rarely listen to radio stations with my pc on. So rarely try sbs. So.
Now I know not to expect sync to be very consistant with msb.com.


-- 
Ikabob

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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Sync is very slightly off.

2009-10-23 Thread Phil Leigh

Ikabob;476380 Wrote: 
> Ok.  Thanks.  I thought that sync would be able to work with msb.com. I
> rarely listen to radio stations with my pc on. So rarely try sbs. So.
> Now I know not to expect sync to be very consistant with msb.com.

without a local server, sync will vary as the performance of the
Internet varies... which is constantly.


-- 
Phil Leigh

You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it
ain't what you'd call minimal...
SB Touch Beta (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W -
MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x
LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue
Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect cables
Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio

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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Sync is very slightly off.

2009-10-23 Thread awy

There is a bit of misinformation here.

Sync does work with mySB.com but only for music services, such as
Pandora, Rhapsody, Napster, etc. That is, services that deliver discrete
tracks, one after another, rather than a continuous stream.

For radio stations it will not work usefully. It will actually keep
them exactly the same time apart :-). This is because each SB connects
independently to the stream source, but it turns out not to be at
exactly the same time. mySB has no way of working out what the
difference in time might be.

Sometimes a useful technique can be to keep restarting the station
until the two players start up sufficiently in sync.

It is also the case that sync can be not quite so tight with mySB but
that depends upon many factors. Often it is as good as a local SbS
(except for radio).


-- 
awy

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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Sync is very slightly off.

2009-10-23 Thread Ikabob

Thank you for this valuble information. Now I will know what to expect.
I had thought that since it worked real well a couple days ago that the
sync was controllable on MSB.com. Thanks again.


-- 
Ikabob

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