Re: [RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne Frame Fitment Update

[ted]

Patrick,

I hope you were able to get out for a ride today, and that you had a 
wonderful time.

I posted in response to another posters suggestion to search for "berto 
tire pressure".

Doing so should turn up: 
http://www.bccclub.org/documents/Tireinflation.pdf. That article, or an 
earlier version of it which was published in Bicycling, seems to be the 
primary source for most, if not all, of the graphs, spreadsheets and apps 
dealing with tire pressure as a function of load and tire width that are 
all over over the internet and comprise a lot of what a google search for 
"berto tire pressure" turns up.

In that article the author (Frank Berto) describes/defines tire drop, and 
asserts that "... the optimum inflation pressure for comfort and rolling 
resistance produces a Tire Drop of about 15% of W (the section width) ...". 
The paper also presents graphs, derived from experiments with a variety of 
tires, that give tire pressure to produce 15% drop for various tire widths 
over a range of loads. It is those graphs that have been so widely embraced 
and repackaged.

The paper does not describe or cite any testing or test results that 
support the assertion that optimal tire pressure results in 15% tire drop 
(and by inference vice versa). However, I suspect that there is or was some 
experimental basis for that assertion.

The knowledge of the group being greater than mine, I think it is 
reasonable for me to inquire if anybody knows what Frank Berto's assertion 
about 15% tire drop being optimal is based on, and can point to some 
documentation of that basis. Also though I didn't state it well before, and 
probably still haven't, I think the question is perfectly logical.

thnks
Ted
p.s. Berto's paper also states that "... Jan Heine thinks that inflation 
pressure is of relatively little importance" and that the author (Berto) 
disagrees. I am fairly certain Jan's work is not where the 15% drop is 
optimal thing comes from.

On Tay,  April 8, 2014 3:02:5 3 AM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> Och, Ted! Your Google skills no doubt are fine. But why seek evidence of 
> something that is logically incomplete? "The optimum temperature is a 15% 
> drop." Spread that around at all the rides you do and see if people start 
> to believe you, to the point that in winter they ride in a tank top to 
> compensate for temperatures that are 15% too warm for them to ride 
> optimally. Sardonic grin.
>
> Logical inference: someone read an article (possibly Jan's) on the testing 
> of tire pressure and rolling resistance, and due to poor grasp of logic and 
> reason remembered that concept in relation only to the pressures they ride, 
> which then came out via inept communication skills as a truncated "15% drop 
> is optimum", and spread that around club rides until it was heard round the 
> world. We see that kind of ineptitude all the time in "science." Pick any 
> press article about any experiment and you will see it. Sardonic grin.
>
> People aren't taught to be mindful, use logic and reason, and unless 
> individuals seek it out or learn it on their own, they unwittingly fall for 
> all sorts of fallacies of logic and pass them on as intelligent thought. We 
> have our education system to thank for that.
>
> Clearly, I need a ride. I'm off to make sure my tires are 15% less 
> inflated. Grin.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> On Monday, April 7, 2014 8:25:55 PM UTC-6, ted wrote:
>>
>> I believe I have done that before, and I did just now. I may be 
>> incompetent but I didn't find test results documenting 15% tire drop as an 
>> optimum.
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [RBW] Re: Does anyone use fenders off road?

[Chris Chen]

I never take the fenders off my Hilsen, and I've been on all kinds of
stuff. The only thing that seems to choke 'em up is snow, but for the most
part I've been pretty lucky with the P45 longboards.

cc


On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 9:12 PM, rob markwardt  wrote:

> I do on my RockCombo.  I don't get too crazy though and there's loads of
> clearance (700c fenders over 26" tires).  Previous owner did a great job
> installing them...solid with no rattles.
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/77502424@N00/8487178127
>
>
> On Monday, April 7, 2014 11:08:14 AM UTC-7, Nanga Parbat wrote:
>>
>> Hello RBW OB,
>> I'm using a late 80's / early 90's Specialized mountain bike with Velo
>> Orange steel fenders, that were on the bike. Even with the leather washers
>> the fenders still rattle on trails. Is anyone using fenders for moderate
>> off roading? Should I try the SKS fenders?
>> Cheers,
>> Scott
>>
>  --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>



-- 
"I want the kind of six pack you can't drink." -- Micah

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] FT - Nitto S65 for S83

[Tony DeFilippo]

I've got a really nice condition S65 (used but very good), I'd like to 
trade it for an S83...anyone lost some weight lately and want to go down to 
a single bolt?!? :)

Tony

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Does anyone use fenders off road?

[rob markwardt]

I do on my RockCombo.  I don't get too crazy though and there's loads of 
clearance (700c fenders over 26" tires).  Previous owner did a great job 
installing them...solid with no rattles.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/77502424@N00/8487178127

On Monday, April 7, 2014 11:08:14 AM UTC-7, Nanga Parbat wrote:
>
> Hello RBW OB,
> I'm using a late 80's / early 90's Specialized mountain bike with Velo 
> Orange steel fenders, that were on the bike. Even with the leather washers 
> the fenders still rattle on trails. Is anyone using fenders for moderate 
> off roading? Should I try the SKS fenders?
> Cheers,
> Scott
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Rambouillet conundrum

[bo richardson]

tires are gone 
On Tuesday, April 8, 2014 7:05:26 PM UTC-7, bo richardson wrote: 
>
> i have some 32 grand bois cypres 
> i think
> i love them but there is too much glass on my circuit
> i am pulling them off tomorrow and would
> sell both for fifty plus shipping
> call it sixty even
> almost new although the front hs had glass pulled out of it
> bo richardson
> 360 676 4838
> i love my rambouillet
> and if anything will make you love this bike
> it is these tires
> if not sell the bike with these tires

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [RBW] Does anyone use fenders off road?

[Edwin W]

I did a 40 mile dirt road ride in February on my befendered Sam (longboards 
with 38s) and got some sticky mud jammed up there. I rode with a stick for the 
last half and did some on the fly mud clearing and still had to dismount a few 
times. Not too fun. If you are on gravel it should be fine, just not southern 
sticky mud in Hickman County, TN!

Edwin

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [RBW] Re: FS 50 cm Silver Quickbeam -$1500

[Karen Yuen]

Thanks, Friends!

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [RBW] Re: Contemplating 1 x 9 drivetrain

[cyclotourist]

Larry, eight speed is nice as well, as they still use a regular chain.

Cheers,
David

"it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal





On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 8:02 PM, LF  wrote:

> Patrick my friend,
> Not exactly to the point, but I think 7-speed rear clusters are at the
> pinacle of bike gear technology. They are more forgiving when shifting,
> last longer, have wider chains. Simple and practical! A nice wide range 2X7
>  Roll on!
> Best,
> Larry
>
> On Tuesday, April 8, 2014 9:45:03 PM UTC-4, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>>
>> I am contemplating whether to go 1 x 9 or 2 x 9 with my drive train. here
>> is the gear ration range comparison:
>>
>> In gain ratios:
>>
>> Current range (excluding my big ring, which I rarely use and will be
>> dropping):
>> 1.5 - 6
>>
>> 1 x 9 (28 x 12-36)
>> 1.6 - 4.7
>>
>> 2 x 9 (24/36 x 12-36)
>> 1.3 - 6
>>
>> I don't really need lower than 1.5, and I am unsure how the drop to 4.7
>> from 6 translates to speed loss. On flat or gradual descents, I suspect I
>> would miss those upper gears. Can anyone provide their wisdom here?
>>
>> I am asking the question because I want to go as simple as is practical.
>> I'd love to go with the 36t on a 1x set up, but it would add significantly
>> to the number of hills i'm walking, especially when bikepacking. Perhaps
>> going with a 30 or 32t 1x set up is the way to go? I will no doubt get
>> stronger and the loss may not be a big deal with that. But then it's better
>> to lose gears on the upper range and coast more, and enjoy the ride on the
>> climbs without killing myself.
>>
>> All wisdom deeply appreciated.
>>
>> With abandon,
>> Patrick
>>
>> *www.MindYourHeadCoop.org *
>> *www.OurHolyConception.org *
>>
>>  --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [RBW] Re: Contemplating 1 x 9 drivetrain

[cyclotourist]

I've gone to a 2X9 with a bash-guard instead of the outside ring on my
29er, and use ALL of the ratios provided. That's from a 22X36 low to a
36X11 high. It's pretty wide-range for a double, and I only very
occasionally wish for a taller gear on it. That said, try the 1X9 set up
and if it gives you enough range. If not, it's a relatively painless job to
switch back to a 2X9. But try it for a while and see if you get used to it,
similar to the way you would have to with a singlspeed.

Cheers,
David

"it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal





On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 7:43 PM, RoadieRyan  wrote:

> Hi Patrick
>
> I made this switch on my Handsome devil about 3 years ago and love it, I
> have rarely found I miss the high end and the low is low enough to get me
> up most of the hills here in hilly west Seattle, I am a gear inches fan
> since finding Sheldon Browns gear calculator and I set up my bike with; 36t
> chain-ring, a 12-36t cassette,  Deore LX RD and Ultegra bar end shifter and
> it gives me great coverage per below.   Unless you really love to mash the
> gears going down hill I doubt you'll miss the top end.  Cheers
>
> Ryan
>
> 36  Cassette Gear Inches  12 81.5  14 69.9  16 61.1  18 54.3  21 46.6
> 24 40.8  28 34.9  32 30.6  36 27.2
>
> On Tuesday, April 8, 2014 6:45:03 PM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
>> I am contemplating whether to go 1 x 9 or 2 x 9 with my drive train. here
>> is the gear ration range comparison:
>>
>> In gain ratios:
>>
>> Current range (excluding my big ring, which I rarely use and will be
>> dropping):
>> 1.5 - 6
>>
>> 1 x 9 (28 x 12-36)
>> 1.6 - 4.7
>>
>> 2 x 9 (24/36 x 12-36)
>> 1.3 - 6
>>
>> I don't really need lower than 1.5, and I am unsure how the drop to 4.7
>> from 6 translates to speed loss. On flat or gradual descents, I suspect I
>> would miss those upper gears. Can anyone provide their wisdom here?
>>
>> I am asking the question because I want to go as simple as is practical.
>> I'd love to go with the 36t on a 1x set up, but it would add significantly
>> to the number of hills i'm walking, especially when bikepacking. Perhaps
>> going with a 30 or 32t 1x set up is the way to go? I will no doubt get
>> stronger and the loss may not be a big deal with that. But then it's better
>> to lose gears on the upper range and coast more, and enjoy the ride on the
>> climbs without killing myself.
>>
>> All wisdom deeply appreciated.
>>
>> With abandon,
>> Patrick
>>
>> *www.MindYourHeadCoop.org *
>> *www.OurHolyConception.org *
>>
>>  --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Contemplating 1 x 9 drivetrain

[LF]

Patrick my friend,
Not exactly to the point, but I think 7-speed rear clusters are at the 
pinacle of bike gear technology. They are more forgiving when shifting, 
last longer, have wider chains. Simple and practical! A nice wide range 2X7 
 Roll on!
Best,
Larry

On Tuesday, April 8, 2014 9:45:03 PM UTC-4, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> I am contemplating whether to go 1 x 9 or 2 x 9 with my drive train. here 
> is the gear ration range comparison:
>
> In gain ratios:
>
> Current range (excluding my big ring, which I rarely use and will be 
> dropping):
> 1.5 - 6
>
> 1 x 9 (28 x 12-36)
> 1.6 - 4.7
>
> 2 x 9 (24/36 x 12-36)
> 1.3 - 6
>
> I don’t really need lower than 1.5, and I am unsure how the drop to 4.7 
> from 6 translates to speed loss. On flat or gradual descents, I suspect I 
> would miss those upper gears. Can anyone provide their wisdom here?
>
> I am asking the question because I want to go as simple as is practical. 
> I’d love to go with the 36t on a 1x set up, but it would add significantly 
> to the number of hills i’m walking, especially when bikepacking. Perhaps 
> going with a 30 or 32t 1x set up is the way to go? I will no doubt get 
> stronger and the loss may not be a big deal with that. But then it’s better 
> to lose gears on the upper range and coast more, and enjoy the ride on the 
> climbs without killing myself.
>
> All wisdom deeply appreciated.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> *www.MindYourHeadCoop.org *
> *www.OurHolyConception.org *
>  
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Contemplating 1 x 9 drivetrain

[rcnute]

1x9 is great.  I ran a 42 tooth ring with 11/32 cassette on a road bike and 
could get up most anything.  34 ring and 11-34 for MTB.

Ryan

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [RBW] Does anyone use fenders off road?

[cyclotourist]

I'd take them off. I've used metal and plastic in the dirt on occasion, but
it's not very enjoyable.

Cheers,
David

"it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal





On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 6:16 PM, Eric Platt  wrote:

> Have always used non-metal fenders on bikes that go on non-paved
> ramblings. Had a fender fold-up in the back a couple times.  Luckily
> nothing except the fender was damaged.
>
> That's me.  Others use metal fenders with no problem at all off-road.
>  Have noticed that leather washers at the mounting points do make a
> difference.  My LHT has metal fenders and works fine.  Although rarely take
> that on anything worse than a gravel road.\
>
> Eric Platt
> St. Paul, MN
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 1:08 PM, Nanga Parbat  wrote:
>
>> Hello RBW OB,
>> I'm using a late 80's / early 90's Specialized mountain bike with Velo
>> Orange steel fenders, that were on the bike. Even with the leather washers
>> the fenders still rattle on trails. Is anyone using fenders for moderate
>> off roading? Should I try the SKS fenders?
>> Cheers,
>> Scott
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>
>  --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [RBW] Re: Racks! (WTB?)

[Tim Gavin]

The $150 (actually, only
$123)
Nitto Mt Campee R20 carries panniers quite well.  I have Vaude panniers
clipped onto mine very securely.

The R20 doesn't have a lower, second rail like the 32/33R Big Back racks.
The panniers mount on the top rail, so that prevents you from using a trunk
sack.

I assume that's on purpose, to mount panniers higher for off-road
clearance, compared to the roadie Campee with the detachable lowrider
frames.

So long as he just wants to use panniers and then strap stuff ad hoc to the
top, then the R20 Mt Campee would work fine.  It's probably the cheapest
pannier-capable Nitto rear rack.  It has the same pretty nickel finish of
all Nitto racks, and can mount to frame braze-ons or to canti posts.

Tim



On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 9:16 PM, Minh  wrote:

> If you can afford it nitto ( duh). On a budget I noticed that public is
> closing out a few colors
> http://publicbikes.com/p/PUBLIC-Rear-Rack-with-Spring-Clip-2012
>
> They seemed pretty beefy when I used one but it was only for a day. Not
> sure how we'll it'd work with those bags but they have a few pics on the
> site.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [RBW] Re: Rambouillet conundrum

[Peter Morgano]

For what it's worth I went through 4 different Rivendell frames before I
found one I loved. But me and the Bombadil are a happy pair now.
On Apr 8, 2014 10:05 PM, "bo richardson"  wrote:

> i have some 32 grand bois cypres
> i think
> i love them but there is too much glass on my circuit
> i am pulling them off tomorrow and would
> sell both for fifty plus shipping
> call it sixty even
> almost new although the front hs had glass pulled out of it
> bo richardson
> 360 676 4838
> i love my rambouillet
> and if anything will make you love this bike
> it is these tires
> if not sell the bike with these tires
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Contemplating 1 x 9 drivetrain

[RoadieRyan]

Hi Patrick

I made this switch on my Handsome devil about 3 years ago and love it, I 
have rarely found I miss the high end and the low is low enough to get me 
up most of the hills here in hilly west Seattle, I am a gear inches fan 
since finding Sheldon Browns gear calculator and I set up my bike with; 36t 
chain-ring, a 12-36t cassette,  Deore LX RD and Ultegra bar end shifter and 
it gives me great coverage per below.   Unless you really love to mash the 
gears going down hill I doubt you'll miss the top end.  Cheers 

Ryan

36  Cassette Gear Inches  12 81.5  14 69.9  16 61.1  18 54.3  21 46.6  
24 40.8  28 34.9  32 30.6  36 27.2 
On Tuesday, April 8, 2014 6:45:03 PM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> I am contemplating whether to go 1 x 9 or 2 x 9 with my drive train. here 
> is the gear ration range comparison:
>
> In gain ratios:
>
> Current range (excluding my big ring, which I rarely use and will be 
> dropping):
> 1.5 - 6
>
> 1 x 9 (28 x 12-36)
> 1.6 - 4.7
>
> 2 x 9 (24/36 x 12-36)
> 1.3 - 6
>
> I don’t really need lower than 1.5, and I am unsure how the drop to 4.7 
> from 6 translates to speed loss. On flat or gradual descents, I suspect I 
> would miss those upper gears. Can anyone provide their wisdom here?
>
> I am asking the question because I want to go as simple as is practical. 
> I’d love to go with the 36t on a 1x set up, but it would add significantly 
> to the number of hills i’m walking, especially when bikepacking. Perhaps 
> going with a 30 or 32t 1x set up is the way to go? I will no doubt get 
> stronger and the loss may not be a big deal with that. But then it’s better 
> to lose gears on the upper range and coast more, and enjoy the ride on the 
> climbs without killing myself.
>
> All wisdom deeply appreciated.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> *www.MindYourHeadCoop.org *
> *www.OurHolyConception.org *
>  
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] WTB - Bosco Bullmoose

[Tony DeFilippo]

I've finally cleared out enough parts to try and acquire one... if found a 
bosco-bullmoose will land on my MB-5 and be very very happy! 

Hit me up off list please.

Thanks,
Tony

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Racks! (WTB?)

[Minh]

If you can afford it nitto ( duh). On a budget I noticed that public is closing 
out a few colors  
http://publicbikes.com/p/PUBLIC-Rear-Rack-with-Spring-Clip-2012

They seemed pretty beefy when I used one but it was only for a day. Not sure 
how we'll it'd work with those bags but they have a few pics on the site. 

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Racks! (WTB?)

[Deacon Patrick]

Here's my Nitto being loved:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/32311885@N07/9360332191/in/set-72157634780609741

With abandon,
Patrick

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [RBW] FS: Pre-built 700C dynamo wheel, janked Brooks saddle.

[Shawn Granton]

Brooks saddle has been SOLD. Wheel still available.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Rambouillet conundrum

[bo richardson]

i have some 32 grand bois cypres 
i think
i love them but there is too much glass on my circuit
i am pulling them off tomorrow and would
sell both for fifty plus shipping
call it sixty even
almost new although the front hs had glass pulled out of it
bo richardson
360 676 4838
i love my rambouillet
and if anything will make you love this bike
it is these tires
if not sell the bike with these tires

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [RBW] Contemplating 1 x 9 drivetrain

[Deacon Patrick]

Och, Steve! What's got you grumpy? Grin.

Thanks, Doug. The 2x is my current default, but I want to explore all 
options before plunking down the funds. And yes, for my riding (sans 
pavement usually) a double gives plenty of range. Just wondering if I can 
squeeze into a 1x.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Tuesday, April 8, 2014 7:58:57 PM UTC-6, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
>  On 04/08/2014 09:45 PM, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>  
> I am contemplating whether to go 1 x 9 or 2 x 9 with my drive train. here 
> is the gear ration range comparison: 
>
>  In gain ratios:
>
>  Current range (excluding my big ring, which I rarely use and will be 
> dropping):
> 1.5 - 6
>
>  1 x 9 (28 x 12-36)
> 1.6 - 4.7
>
>  2 x 9 (24/36 x 12-36)
> 1.3 - 6
>
>  I don’t really need lower than 1.5, and I am unsure how the drop to 4.7 
> from 6 translates to speed loss. On flat or gradual descents, I suspect I 
> would miss those upper gears. Can anyone provide their wisdom here?
>
>  I am asking the question because I want to go as simple as is practical. 
> I’d love to go with the 36t on a 1x set up, but it would add significantly 
> to the number of hills i’m walking, especially when bikepacking. Perhaps 
> going with a 30 or 32t 1x set up is the way to go? I will no doubt get 
> stronger and the loss may not be a big deal with that. But then it’s better 
> to lose gears on the upper range and coast more, and enjoy the ride on the 
> climbs without killing myself.
>  
>
> Keep the gears, learn how to use them.  Not long ago you were saying a 
> triple was too complicated for you so you wanted a double.  Now, counting 
> to 2 has become too complicated as well?  I do not believe it.  This is not 
> hard.  Even little children learn how to do it.
>
>
> 

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Racks! (WTB?)

[Michael Fleischman]

+1 Nitto.  Specifically, I have had the Big Rear Rack for the past few years 
and it has served me very well.

Michael
Indianapolis, IN

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Racks! (WTB?)

[Deacon Patrick]

If you want a rack that you can abuse without worry, get Nitto. If it 
breaks something is very wrong. Jus take sure to check all bolts regularly 
as loose ones will kill your frame. I can't speak to the others, but the 
testing Nitto does is outstanding and his weight limits are very 
conservative as opposed to on the high end, so there is room to play as 
needed.

With abandon
Patrick

On Tuesday, April 8, 2014 2:50:32 PM UTC-6, Mathew Greiner wrote:
>
> Questions about racks. Answers and offers to sell used good ones are both 
> useful responses.
>
> My friend's cheaper aluminum rack broke and he's looking to replace it 
> with something better. He commutes most days with a pair of Arkel panniers 
> and a suit in a suit bag (like a durable, zippered one that probably came 
> with one of his suits). So far he's had the bags on his rear rack with the 
> suit bag folded in half or thirds and draped over the top.
>
> The Nitto Big Rear Rack seems like a slam dunk, but I think he needs to 
> know there isn't an equally good option for a little less. How are people's 
> experiences with things like the Nitto R-15, The Nitto Campee*, Tubus 
> Cargo/Logo/Vega, Surly Nice Racks, etc? If anyone knows much about the Velo 
> Orange Rear Campeur, that's an option, too.
>
> I think a lighter rear rack just for the suit and front low riders for the 
> panniers might be a nice option, but that's as expensive or more, and the 
> tops of the panniers are no longer supporting the suit (they kind of extend 
> the deck of the rack as he uses it now). The Nitto Big Front Rack might 
> also be interesting, as his bike has a lower trail and reportedly rides 
> well with weight in the front.
>
> What other options might you all experience with to accommodate a similar 
> load?
>
> * Also please help me be less confused. There are Nitto MT Campees (for a 
> 26" wheel?), Nitto Campees (R20?) that go for about $150, and then Nitto 
> Campees with low rider attachments for front or rear that go for $280. Will 
> the regular ones ($150) accommodate panniers? Why must they all have the 
> same name?
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Contemplating 1 x 9 drivetrain

[dougP]

I'd go with the 2 x 9.  With just 2 chainrings, shifting will be easy on 
the front and 24 & 36 have worked well together.  The 1 x 9 seems just a 
bit narrow, with less than 3:1 overall range.  Just my 2 cents.  I suffer 
separation anxiety without a triple, so you know my bias :).  

dougP

On Tuesday, April 8, 2014 6:45:03 PM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote:

> I am contemplating whether to go 1 x 9 or 2 x 9 with my drive train. here 
> is the gear ration range comparison:
>
> In gain ratios:
>
> Current range (excluding my big ring, which I rarely use and will be 
> dropping):
> 1.5 - 6
>
> 1 x 9 (28 x 12-36)
> 1.6 - 4.7
>
> 2 x 9 (24/36 x 12-36)
> 1.3 - 6
>
> I don’t really need lower than 1.5, and I am unsure how the drop to 4.7 
> from 6 translates to speed loss. On flat or gradual descents, I suspect I 
> would miss those upper gears. Can anyone provide their wisdom here?
>
> I am asking the question because I want to go as simple as is practical. 
> I’d love to go with the 36t on a 1x set up, but it would add significantly 
> to the number of hills i’m walking, especially when bikepacking. Perhaps 
> going with a 30 or 32t 1x set up is the way to go? I will no doubt get 
> stronger and the loss may not be a big deal with that. But then it’s better 
> to lose gears on the upper range and coast more, and enjoy the ride on the 
> climbs without killing myself.
>
> All wisdom deeply appreciated.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> *www.MindYourHeadCoop.org *
> *www.OurHolyConception.org *
>  
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [RBW] Contemplating 1 x 9 drivetrain

[Steve Palincsar]

On 04/08/2014 09:45 PM, Deacon Patrick wrote:
I am contemplating whether to go 1 x 9 or 2 x 9 with my drive train. 
here is the gear ration range comparison:


In gain ratios:

Current range (excluding my big ring, which I rarely use and will be 
dropping):

1.5 - 6

1 x 9 (28 x 12-36)
1.6 - 4.7

2 x 9 (24/36 x 12-36)
1.3 - 6

I don't really need lower than 1.5, and I am unsure how the drop to 
4.7 from 6 translates to speed loss. On flat or gradual descents, I 
suspect I would miss those upper gears. Can anyone provide their 
wisdom here?


I am asking the question because I want to go as simple as is 
practical. I'd love to go with the 36t on a 1x set up, but it would 
add significantly to the number of hills i'm walking, especially when 
bikepacking. Perhaps going with a 30 or 32t 1x set up is the way to 
go? I will no doubt get stronger and the loss may not be a big deal 
with that. But then it's better to lose gears on the upper range and 
coast more, and enjoy the ride on the climbs without killing myself.


Keep the gears, learn how to use them.  Not long ago you were saying a 
triple was too complicated for you so you wanted a double.  Now, 
counting to 2 has become too complicated as well?  I do not believe it.  
This is not hard.  Even little children learn how to do it.



--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Does anyone use fenders off road?

[Deacon Patrick]

Hello, Scott! I rose my SKS fenders (limited to 50mm tires) on all sorts of 
technical single track last year. You can poke through the photos by 
checking out the various 
sets: https://www.flickr.com/photos/32311885@N07/sets

This set in 
particular: https://www.flickr.com/photos/32311885@N07/sets/72157635975329866/

I've gone without fenders since switching to 2.25" Smart Sam knobbies, 
which I love. But I don't love not having fenders. Mud in my eye is a 
problem and despite by large saddle sack I still get a lot of 
splatter. https://www.flickr.com/photos/32311885@N07/13727305524/

Have you found SKS fenders that work with MTB tires? In my case, 29er. I'd 
been planning on going with a flat Woody's fenders to get the width and 
29er fit.

With abandon,
Patrick  

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Rambouillet conundrum

[Deacon Patrick]

Och, Jeff! Figuring out a bike is a very personal journey comprised of lots 
of wee journeys (rides), with input from others, but ultimately it's you 
and the bike. I took a year to get to know my Hunqapillar and learning how 
to ride a mammoth, refining things along the way. In my case, my second 
year was vastly under biking using my touring set-up tires and handlebars 
last year on single track and lots of bikepacking trips. I learned that's 
the type of riding I want to do, so This year (year three) is going to be a 
change in the cockpit, saddle, and drivetrain to match that discovery. For 
me the Hunqapillar is the perfect bike for what I thought I would be doing, 
as well as the perfect bike for what I will be doing.

Whatever you decide to do, your journey will continue and you will move 
closer toward matching your riding and your bike and how it's set up. 
That's all part of the fun. One of the gifts Grant and this group has given 
me is permission to play and to under bike, because I always have my LCG 
(lowest common gear) with me, so can walk whatever is too much. No biggie. 

On Tuesday, April 8, 2014 1:07:09 PM UTC-6, Jeff Ong wrote:
>
> For what it's worth, I (the original poster) am around 6' tall, 230 lbs., 
> pretty beefy and broad (big shoulders, etc.). I would characterize myself 
> as a masher, I guess, since I cut my teeth on mountain biking and never 
> really developed a glassy-smooth pedal stroke. 
>
> I guess I was just really surprised by some of the ride characteristics of 
> the bike... I was expecting something like the sport-tourers of the 80's 
> and early 90's, not so much the handling of a loaded touring bike or early 
> 80's klunker. I do suspect there are some real fit issues with this 
> frameset for me -- most of my bikes are kind of on the small side, some 
> almost comically so.
>
> I appreciate how open minded all you Riv devotees have been through this 
> discussion, though -- no one telling me my perceptions are just wrong, etc. 
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Contemplating 1 x 9 drivetrain

[Deacon Patrick]

I am contemplating whether to go 1 x 9 or 2 x 9 with my drive train. here is 
the gear ration range comparison:

In gain ratios:

Current range (excluding my big ring, which I rarely use and will be dropping):
1.5 - 6

1 x 9 (28 x 12-36)
1.6 - 4.7

2 x 9 (24/36 x 12-36)
1.3 - 6

I don't really need lower than 1.5, and I am unsure how the drop to 4.7 from 6 
translates to speed loss. On flat or gradual descents, I suspect I would miss 
those upper gears. Can anyone provide their wisdom here?

I am asking the question because I want to go as simple as is practical. I'd 
love to go with the 36t on a 1x set up, but it would add significantly to the 
number of hills i'm walking, especially when bikepacking. Perhaps going with a 
30 or 32t 1x set up is the way to go? I will no doubt get stronger and the loss 
may not be a big deal with that. But then it's better to lose gears on the 
upper range and coast more, and enjoy the ride on the climbs without killing 
myself.

All wisdom deeply appreciated.

With abandon,
Patrick

www.MindYourHeadCoop.org
www.OurHolyConception.org

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] FS: Pre-built 700C dynamo wheel, janked Brooks saddle.

[Shawn Granton]

Well, it’s definitely feeling like spring here, so some more spring 
cleaning!

First up is this pre-built dynamo wheel distributed by QBP. It’s a Quality 
Wheels Pavement Disc Front Wheel, 700c, 32 spoke. It has a Shimano Alfine 
Dynamo hub laced to a Velocity Dyad Reflective with DT Competition Black 
spokes. I bought this wheel thinking I’d use it on the XO-3, but won’t 
after all. It’s never been used or even mounted, so practically brand new. 
These wheels retail anywhere for $220-250, but I’m selling it for *$130 
shipped* to the continental US! Please note that this does not have a 
machined rim, so it’s disc brake only.

And next up is my old Brooks Champion Flyer saddle. I’ve had this thing for 
six years and have used the hell out of it. Consequently, it’s quite used. 
The leather is still decent, but it is quite stretched. And the “nose” is 
crooked and the adjustment bolt is stripped, so you won’t be able to adjust 
it via the normal ways. I know it’s not of much use, but someone might find 
use for it. That’s why I’m selling it for only *$15 shipped* to the 
continental US, basically you’re really just paying for the shipping if you 
want it.

Of course both items are available for pickup in Portland, Oregon. Payment 
via paypal only, unless local pickup.

Photos of the wheel and saddle on flickr:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/urbanadventureleaguepdx/sets/72157643672790783/

yours,
Shawn

--
http://urbanadventureleague.wordpress.com/
http://groups.google.com/group/urban-adventure-league-portland
http://societyofthreespeeds.wordpress.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/urbanadventureleaguepdx/ 
http://bikesspottedpdx.tumblr.com/
Un-electronic mail goes here: P O Box 14185, Portland OR 97293-0185

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [RBW] Does anyone use fenders off road?

[Eric Platt]

Have always used non-metal fenders on bikes that go on non-paved ramblings.
Had a fender fold-up in the back a couple times.  Luckily nothing except
the fender was damaged.

That's me.  Others use metal fenders with no problem at all off-road.  Have
noticed that leather washers at the mounting points do make a difference.
 My LHT has metal fenders and works fine.  Although rarely take that on
anything worse than a gravel road.\

Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN


On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 1:08 PM, Nanga Parbat  wrote:

> Hello RBW OB,
> I'm using a late 80's / early 90's Specialized mountain bike with Velo
> Orange steel fenders, that were on the bike. Even with the leather washers
> the fenders still rattle on trails. Is anyone using fenders for moderate
> off roading? Should I try the SKS fenders?
> Cheers,
> Scott
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Wanted: Brand V BoxyBar bag or similar hbar bag that doesn't require a rack

[Daniel D.]

might want to search back a few weeks.  I remember a brand v handlebar bag 
for sale.  I was tempted so I was always looking at the ad don't recall it 
ever getting a sold update.

On Monday, April 7, 2014 11:04:06 AM UTC-7, Anton Tutter wrote:
>
> I'm looking for a boxy-type hbar bag that doesn't require a rack or 
> decaleur. Main requirement is that it's fairly flat on top, capable of 
> having a map holder clipped to it.  The Brand V BoxyBar Bag seems to fit 
> the bill perfectly. I thought I'd inquire on the list first to see if 
> anyone had an unwanted one, or similar bag, they'd be willing to sell.
>
> Let me know off-list.
>
> Anton
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Rambouillet conundrum

[Jeff Ong]

For what it's worth, I (the original poster) am around 6' tall, 230 lbs., 
pretty beefy and broad (big shoulders, etc.). I would characterize myself 
as a masher, I guess, since I cut my teeth on mountain biking and never 
really developed a glassy-smooth pedal stroke. 

I guess I was just really surprised by some of the ride characteristics of 
the bike... I was expecting something like the sport-tourers of the 80's 
and early 90's, not so much the handling of a loaded touring bike or early 
80's klunker. I do suspect there are some real fit issues with this 
frameset for me -- most of my bikes are kind of on the small side, some 
almost comically so.

I appreciate how open minded all you Riv devotees have been through this 
discussion, though -- no one telling me my perceptions are just wrong, etc. 

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Racks! (WTB?)

[Mathew Greiner]

Questions about racks. Answers and offers to sell used good ones are both 
useful responses.

My friend's cheaper aluminum rack broke and he's looking to replace it with 
something better. He commutes most days with a pair of Arkel panniers and a 
suit in a suit bag (like a durable, zippered one that probably came with 
one of his suits). So far he's had the bags on his rear rack with the suit 
bag folded in half or thirds and draped over the top.

The Nitto Big Rear Rack seems like a slam dunk, but I think he needs to 
know there isn't an equally good option for a little less. How are people's 
experiences with things like the Nitto R-15, The Nitto Campee*, Tubus 
Cargo/Logo/Vega, Surly Nice Racks, etc? If anyone knows much about the Velo 
Orange Rear Campeur, that's an option, too.

I think a lighter rear rack just for the suit and front low riders for the 
panniers might be a nice option, but that's as expensive or more, and the 
tops of the panniers are no longer supporting the suit (they kind of extend 
the deck of the rack as he uses it now). The Nitto Big Front Rack might 
also be interesting, as his bike has a lower trail and reportedly rides 
well with weight in the front.

What other options might you all experience with to accommodate a similar 
load?

* Also please help me be less confused. There are Nitto MT Campees (for a 
26" wheel?), Nitto Campees (R20?) that go for about $150, and then Nitto 
Campees with low rider attachments for front or rear that go for $280. Will 
the regular ones ($150) accommodate panniers? Why must they all have the 
same name?

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Latest in Fenders!

[Tom Bancroft]

The point of the very light single fender is to allow other people to ride 
close behind you in a paceline without having to get pieces of street on 
their lips. On a brevet this is vital if you are otherwise a no fender type 
of person.

Tom, Vancouver

On Saturday, March 29, 2014 8:49:15 AM UTC-7, Brewster Fong wrote:
>
> Like someone said on another board, charge enough and you can get cyclists 
> to buy just about anything...
>
> Check out this fender for $80!
>
> http://mikesbikes.com/m/product/bikesmart-tangent-sl-8900.htm
>
> Better yet, watch the video of how it worksmake sure you look for the 
> droplets.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=DcwE967IOGo
>
> I expect Riv to stock these next weekGood Luck!
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Rambouillet conundrum

[Jeff Ong]

True, but even if I swap out for a different frameset (Mercian Audax?), the 
tires will be put to good use. I'll give it a shot. 

On Sunday, April 6, 2014 6:48:33 PM UTC-7, Brian Campbell wrote:
>
> Sounds like you know what you like and the Ram is not it. I would sell it. 
> There may be no mystery to solve. Not every bike is for every person.
>>
>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Chincoteague NWR

[justinaugust]

We went every summer as a kid. My parents now own two rooms at the Assateague 
Inn. I've ridden those trails and loops hundreds of time. Love it. 

-Justin

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [RBW] FS: 58cm Rambouillet frameset

[justinaugust]

LALALALA I CANT SEE YOU I NEED TO SELL A BIKE NOT BUY ONE


LALALALA

-Justin, Hands over ears and eyes, PHL->OAK

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [RBW] FS: 58cm Rambouillet frameset

[mikel66...@juno.com]

i also have an orange Ram so something must go. its a fine ride and looks 
pretty nice too

mike goldman
warwick,r.i.

Fast-Growing Industry
A New Player In The Booming Bottled Water Market.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/534477c3bbb7e77c30d39st04duc

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [RBW] FS: 58cm Rambouillet frameset

[Patrick Moore]

The "nix Ram" discussion is having its deleterious effects. Someone buy
this beautiful bike (in just my size, but I have a 58 of the same color.
Dent on tt, too!).

Did Eric steal this, too ..??


On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 4:20 PM, mikel66...@juno.com wrote:

> frame/fork/headset
>
> great shape. tiny dent in top tube, i never notice it
>
> $1000 shipped
>
> mike goldman
> warwick,r.i.
> 
> Fast-Growing Industry
> A New Player In The Booming Bottled Water Market.
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/534476554456b76552d00st03duc
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>



-- 
Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, and letters that get interviews.
By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
Other professional writing services.
http://www.resumespecialties.com/
Patrick Moore
Albuquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Etats Unis

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Upright Riding Saddles.

[Joe Bernard]

One caveat about the B68 is that the width tends to push you forward on the 
saddle relative to a B17. Not a big deal, but if your B17-to-bar distance 
is just right, the 68 will feel as if you scooted forward a centimeter too 
close. It's not noticeable until you get to pedaling and realize the backs 
of your legs are "pushing off" the part where the saddle curves out to 
create that big platform at the back.

Joe Bernard
Vallejo, CA.

On Tuesday, April 8, 2014 10:26:51 AM UTC-7, Ron Mc wrote:

> what Weth said - grab it while you can...
>
> On Tuesday, April 8, 2014 11:09:41 AM UTC-5, WETH wrote:
>>
>> Another vote for the Brooks B68.  I have one and both of my sons ride 
>> them.  The B68 is hard to find.  I have purchased my last two from Public 
>> Bikes http://publicbikes.com/p/Brooks-B68-Seat  They still seem to have 
>> some black ones in stock at closeout prices.  
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 8, 2014 11:07:23 AM UTC-4, EGNolan wrote:
>>>
>>> I had the same problem with an already WELL broken in b17. I went to a 
>>> less broken in b17 narrow, which I didn't think would work because it was 
>>> narrow, but it's what I had. It worked well after it was broken in, 
>>> possibly because of the angles used while breaking it in. If you don't 
>>> think the B17 is wide enough for comfort, go B68. 
>>>  
>>> Best,
>>> Eric
>>> Indpls
>>>
>>> On Monday, April 7, 2014 7:37:47 PM UTC-4, David Banzer wrote:
>>>
 Coupla photos of said bike. Rides like a dream. I tilted the nose up a 
 bit, but still would feel like a wider saddle would be comfier. Will 
 experiment. This wonderfully broken in B17 will be transferred over to my 
 Redwood as it's very comfortable with drops.
 David
 Chicago

>>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Jamboree Ride Recon: 680 Trail

[Irving (boyzonthehoods.com)]

Really fun ride that was lead by Manny. Definitely did some underbiking 
this weekend...

Route GPS files proved that the NSA is probably tracking our bike 
movements: http://www.strava.com/activities/127682893

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Jamboree Ride Recon: 680 Trail

[dougP]

Is any of this on a map?  I'm sure in July we'll get strung out & it'll be 
difficult to keep people together.  The hills look great & I can see 
stopping frequently, especially since it'll be new turf to me.

dougP

On Monday, April 7, 2014 9:05:54 PM UTC-7, Manuel Acosta wrote:

> Fun ride. 
> Eric, Evan, Jeremy and one of the five members of TheBoyzontheHoods 
> Mr.Irving himself. 
> Did a little recon on half the Jamboree route.
> Great mellow time, plenty of cheese stoppage and some really nice views. 
> Route looks good so far.
>
> Pictures proved that 680 doesn't mean the freeway.
> https://flic.kr/s/aHsjWvbpnZ
>
> -Manny "Pretty sure this is the way" Acosta
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: ANCIENNE PAIRE DE GARDE BOUES"RADIUS" POUR RANDONNEUR RENE HERSE -VELO ANCIEN

[Ron Mc]

so do we know who bought them?  What a great collectible with even neater 
markings

On Monday, April 7, 2014 2:49:01 PM UTC-5, Eric Norris wrote:
>
> Any other 650B afficionados out there looking for classic fenders?
>
> End time: Apr 8, 2014, 10:44:12 AM PDT
>
>
> View item:
> ANCIENNE PAIRE DE GARDE BOUES"RADIUS" POUR RANDONNEUR RENE HERSE -VELO 
> ANCIEN
>
>
> Eric N
> www.CampyOnly.com
> CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com
> Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Upright Riding Saddles.

[Ron Mc]

what Weth said - grab it while you can...

On Tuesday, April 8, 2014 11:09:41 AM UTC-5, WETH wrote:
>
> Another vote for the Brooks B68.  I have one and both of my sons ride 
> them.  The B68 is hard to find.  I have purchased my last two from Public 
> Bikes http://publicbikes.com/p/Brooks-B68-Seat  They still seem to have 
> some black ones in stock at closeout prices.  
>
> On Tuesday, April 8, 2014 11:07:23 AM UTC-4, EGNolan wrote:
>>
>> I had the same problem with an already WELL broken in b17. I went to a 
>> less broken in b17 narrow, which I didn't think would work because it was 
>> narrow, but it's what I had. It worked well after it was broken in, 
>> possibly because of the angles used while breaking it in. If you don't 
>> think the B17 is wide enough for comfort, go B68. 
>>  
>> Best,
>> Eric
>> Indpls
>>
>> On Monday, April 7, 2014 7:37:47 PM UTC-4, David Banzer wrote:
>>
>>> Coupla photos of said bike. Rides like a dream. I tilted the nose up a 
>>> bit, but still would feel like a wider saddle would be comfier. Will 
>>> experiment. This wonderfully broken in B17 will be transferred over to my 
>>> Redwood as it's very comfortable with drops.
>>> David
>>> Chicago
>>>
>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Jamboree Ride Recon: 680 Trail

[Dennis Hogan]

WhooHoo --- love the flowers - sweet ride !
Dennis in PDX (with rare sun)

On Monday, April 7, 2014 9:05:54 PM UTC-7, Manuel Acosta wrote:
>
> Fun ride. 
> Eric, Evan, Jeremy and one of the five members of TheBoyzontheHoods 
> Mr.Irving himself. 
> Did a little recon on half the Jamboree route.
> Great mellow time, plenty of cheese stoppage and some really nice views. 
> Route looks good so far.
>
> Pictures proved that 680 doesn't mean the freeway.
> https://flic.kr/s/aHsjWvbpnZ
>
> -Manny "Pretty sure this is the way" Acosta
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Upright Riding Saddles.

[WETH]

Another vote for the Brooks B68.  I have one and both of my sons ride 
them.  The B68 is hard to find.  I have purchased my last two from Public 
Bikes http://publicbikes.com/p/Brooks-B68-Seat  They still seem to have 
some black ones in stock at closeout prices.  

On Tuesday, April 8, 2014 11:07:23 AM UTC-4, EGNolan wrote:
>
> I had the same problem with an already WELL broken in b17. I went to a 
> less broken in b17 narrow, which I didn't think would work because it was 
> narrow, but it's what I had. It worked well after it was broken in, 
> possibly because of the angles used while breaking it in. If you don't 
> think the B17 is wide enough for comfort, go B68. 
>  
> Best,
> Eric
> Indpls
>
> On Monday, April 7, 2014 7:37:47 PM UTC-4, David Banzer wrote:
>
>> Coupla photos of said bike. Rides like a dream. I tilted the nose up a 
>> bit, but still would feel like a wider saddle would be comfier. Will 
>> experiment. This wonderfully broken in B17 will be transferred over to my 
>> Redwood as it's very comfortable with drops.
>> David
>> Chicago
>>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Upright Riding Saddles.

[EGNolan]

I had the same problem with an already WELL broken in b17. I went to a less 
broken in b17 narrow, which I didn't think would work because it was 
narrow, but it's what I had. It worked well after it was broken in, 
possibly because of the angles used while breaking it in. If you don't 
think the B17 is wide enough for comfort, go B68. 
 
Best,
Eric
Indpls

On Monday, April 7, 2014 7:37:47 PM UTC-4, David Banzer wrote:

> Coupla photos of said bike. Rides like a dream. I tilted the nose up a 
> bit, but still would feel like a wider saddle would be comfier. Will 
> experiment. This wonderfully broken in B17 will be transferred over to my 
> Redwood as it's very comfortable with drops.
> David
> Chicago
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Barlow Pass - using it, liking it

[Rod Holland]

Light, supple, wide (38mm) tires that roll fast, beg for, and reward, 
acceleration, corner precisely, run well at low pressures, and soak up 
rough pavement and gravel vibrations. Easy to love.

rod 

On Wednesday, April 2, 2014 12:22:40 AM UTC-4, Mike On A Bike wrote:
>
> Could you describe why you love them?
>
> On Sunday, March 30, 2014 10:24:44 PM UTC-4, frank_a wrote:
>>
>> Also using it, and loving it!
>>
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/8531240@N06/13526699433/in/photostream/
>>
>> - Frank
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, March 30, 2014 9:20:40 PM UTC-4, James Warren wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne Frame Fitment Update

[Deacon Patrick]

Och, Ted! Your Google skills no doubt are fine. But why seek evidence of 
something that is logically incomplete? "The optimum temperature is a 15% 
drop." Spread that around at all the rides you do and see if people start 
to believe you, to the point that in winter they ride in a tank top to 
compensate for temperatures that are 15% too warm for them to ride 
optimally. Sardonic grin.

Logical inference: someone read an article (possibly Jan's) on the testing 
of tire pressure and rolling resistance, and due to poor grasp of logic and 
reason remembered that concept in relation only to the pressures they ride, 
which then came out via inept communication skills as a truncated "15% drop 
is optimum", and spread that around club rides until it was heard round the 
world. We see that kind of ineptitude all the time in "science." Pick any 
press article about any experiment and you will see it. Sardonic grin.

People aren't taught to be mindful, use logic and reason, and unless 
individuals seek it out or learn it on their own, they unwittingly fall for 
all sorts of fallacies of logic and pass them on as intelligent thought. We 
have our education system to thank for that.

Clearly, I need a ride. I'm off to make sure my tires are 15% less 
inflated. Grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Monday, April 7, 2014 8:25:55 PM UTC-6, ted wrote:
>
> I believe I have done that before, and I did just now. I may be 
> incompetent but I didn't find test results documenting 15% tire drop as an 
> optimum.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [RBW] Re: Rambouillet conundrum

[Joe Bernard]

The "no warranty warranty" :)

On Monday, April 7, 2014 6:40:04 PM UTC-7, Peter M wrote:
>
> I believe you can put drop bars on any Rivendell without voiding the 
> warranty. 
> On Apr 7, 2014 9:10 PM, "George Schick" > 
> wrote:
>
>> Just now checking back to the blog.  Looks like Patrick (Moore) pretty 
>> much said everything that I would've said.  My difficulty with the 
>> Grant/Riv/fit philosophy is that it seems to have steered people into the 
>> largest possible frame sizes - if 54cm looks OK then you should really 
>> probably be on a 56cm.  To me that's the same early 70's LBS guidance that 
>> had me on a 23" when I really should've been on a 21".  One size does NOT 
>> fit all (of the same height or even PBH).  There are different parts of the 
>> human anatomy besides just PBH - there are arm lengths, torso lengths, 
>> flexibility, and age to be taken into consideration.  BTW, take a browse 
>> through the Riv Readers that have been published over the past several 
>> decades.  Notice how the earlier frames almost always featured "drop" type 
>> bars, even on MTB setups (even though there was emphasis on getting the bar 
>> height even to or higher than the saddle)?  Then the entire emphasis since 
>> has shifted gradually, subtly toward flatter bars like the Albatross, etc, 
>> with even more upright riding positions?  Can you say flexibility and 
>> aging, anyone?  Something different definitely seems to have been at work 
>> here...
>>
>> On Monday, April 7, 2014 7:00:48 PM UTC-5, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>>>
>>> George, I'm confused. Help me understand how #1 puts you at odds with 
>>> Grant and Riv on their frame sizing criteria. As I understand it you just 
>>> perfectly illustrated why their frame size criteria is PBH (then height to 
>>> dial in cockpit), not height. This is precisely how they worked with me 
>>> when I called them. I pointed out the frame they recommended was one size 
>>> up from the charts online. Grant said something to the effect (not anywhere 
>>> near a direct quote) of he's the master of the chart not the other way 
>>> round and this will work, trust him. I did, and have never regretted it.
>>>
>>> With abandon,
>>> patrick
>>>
>>> On Monday, April 7, 2014 5:44:00 PM UTC-6, George Schick wrote:

 Patrick - yeah, I know it.  That's why I finished my thread post with 
 "...it certainly does seem as though not every bike is for every person…" 
  And along with your list of possible variables there are two others worth 
 noting:

 1)  (And this is the one where I get a bit crossways with Grant and Riv 
 on their frame sizing criteria)  Two people of exactly the same height and 
 weight can have completely different anatomies and therefore different 
 frame size (not to mention stem heights and lengths) requirements.  I 
 can't 
 remember where I read it now, but a while back someone submitted a post 
 where he and a co-worker got to talking about frame sizing.  Both were the 
 same height.  One said that he was perfectly comfortable with frame size 
 "x" and the other said 'no way' and that he required frame size "y".  So 
 they went into the restroom with rulers that they could pull up to their 
 PBH and looked at themselves in the mirror.  Sure enough, one's ruler was 
 considerably higher than the other.  I'm 5'9", but have short legs for my 
 height - in a "normal" anatomy I'd be at least 6' given the length of my 
 arms and torso - I have shorter legs.  So I'm comfy on a 54cm whereas I've 
 been told I should be on a 56cm or even a 58cm.  Some of my most miserable 
 years of cycling back in the early 70's were when I let LBS sales types 
 talk me into bikes with 23" frames so I could "stretch  out", they said. 
  Not only could I not stand over the bike at a stop without lifting one 
 leg 
 off the ground, but I kept having to buy shorter and shorter stems to 
 accommodate the "large" frame.  It was not until the late 70's when I 
 ordered a frame from Chicago's Turin Bike (never heard what happened to 
 them or who might've built that frame) until I felt completely comfortable 
 on a bike that felt "quick and responsive" and everything else the OP says 
 the Ram lacks.  Due to financial issues I sold that frame as a complete 
 bike (equipped entirely with Campy Record components of the time) and 
 regretted it UNTIL ...

 2)  …. about a decade ago when I was almost 30 years older and far less 
 flexible.  It seems that AGING has a lot to do with the way a bike feels 
 and handles and what's comfy and what's not.  I don't know how old the OP 
 is, but maybe he still has enough go-fast in him that the Ram just doesn't 
 feel responsive enough.   I understand that; I would've felt the same way 
 30 years ago.  But not now.  So much of it is all in the sizing, the 
 aging, 
 and the perception.  I