Re: [RBW] Re: Advice for Poser Fixed on Flip Flop of ss/ss hub

2017-11-14 Thread Philip Williamson
Rotafix: http://204.73.203.34/fisso/eng/schpignone.htm
How is it better than honking up a hill? Leverage. Your weight and core 
strength on a 46t ring is nothing compared to a virtual 12t ring and a 622mm 
crank arm. You stop cranking when you get scared, not when the cog stops moving.

Philip
www.biketinker.com

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[RBW] Re: Campagnolo on a Sam/Homer?

2017-11-14 Thread Joe Bernard
I don't know what the situation is with mtb cassettes, but you can use Shimano 
or SRAM 11-speed road cassettes with Campy 11-drivetrains. 

http://fitwerx.com/campagnolo-shimano-and-sram-11-speed-wheel-compatiblity/

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Re: [RBW] Re: Advice for Poser Fixed on Flip Flop of ss/ss hub

2017-11-14 Thread Philip Williamson
Jam nuts. Sorry: “Artist!”
It’s how a threaded headset is arranged: fat nut over lean nut. I could find 
the article, but not on my phone. The article has graphs of force required to 
loosen the nuts, and skinny nut loosens right away, but fat nut holds strong. 
Convinced me.

Philip
www.biketinker.com

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Re: [RBW] Getting Groceries - Someone has to, might as well enjoy it.

2017-11-14 Thread Deacon Patrick
J, its a Silky saw. Japanese, it cuts on the draw rather than push, which is 
more effecient all around and allows for an agressive blade yet fine cut. They 
come smaller, but I use this one for trail work as I find it also, and with a 
bit of angle creativity I’ve cut through some impressive trees. We also use it 
for cutting our 2x4 furniture.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0014CA3JQ/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

With abandon,
Patrick

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[RBW] Re: Campagnolo on a Sam/Homer?

2017-11-14 Thread Belopsky
http://bitexhubs.co.uk/product/rar12/

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Re: [RBW] Re: Advice for Poser Fixed on Flip Flop of ss/ss hub

2017-11-14 Thread Deacon Patrick
Thanks, Philip! I may end up doing the rotafix after all. The hub was 32 hole 
and I am more comfortable on 36 hole. So before I buy a wheel set I’ll test the 
cog on my flip side. How does one remove the rotafixed cog without shattering 
things?

With abandon,
Patrick

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[RBW] Re: Campagnolo on a Sam/Homer?

2017-11-14 Thread Garth
I would get the White Industries hub myself. For something as important as a 
wheel, going cheap on any part of that wheel compromises the entire wheel and 
it ends up costing more later. 

Quality wheels are just as important as the frame. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Advice for Poser Fixed on Flip Flop of ss/ss hub

2017-11-14 Thread Jon BALER
I've used the rotafix method many times to remove a cog when the regular 
chain whip couldn't get it.  Never saw a reason to use for installation, as 
repeated riding will get it tight enough.  Check the lock ring often if you 
are worried about it.

As for fixed cog on regular freewheel threads with same direction lock 
ring, I have also done that for a short time and worked fine.  Just avoid 
excessive backpedal forces.  Again check/tighten it frequently if it 
concerns you.  Never mind that it is called a suicide hub.  ;)   (google 
that suicide fixed hub for more opinions)

On Tuesday, November 14, 2017 at 6:23:31 AM UTC-5, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> Thanks, Philip! I may end up doing the rotafix after all. The hub was 32 
> hole and I am more comfortable on 36 hole. So before I buy a wheel set I’ll 
> test the cog on my flip side. How does one remove the rotafixed cog without 
> shattering things? 
>
> With abandon, 
> Patrick

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[RBW] Re: Campagnolo on a Sam/Homer?

2017-11-14 Thread Belopsky
bitex hubs are rebranded for virtually every bike manufacturer. 

On Tuesday, November 14, 2017 at 6:30:17 AM UTC-5, Garth wrote:
>
> I would get the White Industries hub myself. For something as important as 
> a wheel, going cheap on any part of that wheel compromises the entire wheel 
> and it ends up costing more later. 
>
> Quality wheels are just as important as the frame. 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Campagnolo on a Sam/Homer?

2017-11-14 Thread Tim Gavin
Correct.  All 11-speed cassettes are cross-compatible; SRAM, Campagnolo,
and Shimano all used the same cassette spacing when they went to 11-speed.

Also, Shimano 11-speed MTB cassettes fit on 10-speed freehubs (because the
largest cogs are dished).  So, you could use any 135 mm OLD 10-speed
freehub, a Shimano MTB 11-speed cassette, and Campagnolo 11-speed shifters
and derailleurs.

And Campagnolo Potenza 11-speed can fit a 32t cog, and comes in silver!


I haven't tried this combination myself, so I welcome the group to check my
math on this.


One catch: I think all Campagnolo cranksets are designed for 130 mm rear
spacing, so you may want to see if the crankset you choose can be fitted
with some spacers on the drive side.  Also, even though the Potenza
crankset comes in silver, it's still ugly (like a 4-armed shuriken).

On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 2:11 AM, Joe Bernard  wrote:

> I don't know what the situation is with mtb cassettes, but you can use
> Shimano or SRAM 11-speed road cassettes with Campy 11-drivetrains.
>
> http://fitwerx.com/campagnolo-shimano-and-sram-11-speed-
> wheel-compatiblity/
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: "We’ll have “classic” single speed frames again...."

2017-11-14 Thread Belopsky
Anyone think this could work? 120mm 
O.L.D. https://janheine.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/hub_gb_hf_5sp_6sp.jpg

Could use spacers and the like if you want to run a true single speed setup 
or could maybe make a 5speed work too>?

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Re: [RBW] Re: "We’ll have “classic” single speed frames again...."

2017-11-14 Thread Steve Palincsar

No, because they're not selling it anymore.


On 11/14/2017 07:55 AM, Belopsky wrote:
Anyone think this could work? 120mm 
O.L.D. https://janheine.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/hub_gb_hf_5sp_6sp.jpg






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[RBW] Re: Campagnolo on a Sam/Homer?

2017-11-14 Thread Garth
Rebranding . that's like the Price is Right game ... "Let's see what's 
behind door number 3 , you have won a brand new . "

  Might be a Cadillac, might be Yugo  all the doors look the same on the 
outside ☺

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Re: [RBW] Re: "We’ll have “classic” single speed frames again...."

2017-11-14 Thread Belopsky
Incorrect. 
http://www.cyclesgrandbois.com/SHOP/gb_lfqr_R120126.html

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Re: [RBW] Re: "We’ll have “classic” single speed frames again...."

2017-11-14 Thread Jeremy Tavan
There's also the one from SunXCD, http://sunxcd.net/hubs/ - I use one in my 
commuter bike and like it.

On Tuesday, November 14, 2017 at 5:44:40 AM UTC-8, Belopsky wrote:
>
> Incorrect. 
> http://www.cyclesgrandbois.com/SHOP/gb_lfqr_R120126.html
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Advice for Poser Fixed on Flip Flop of ss/ss hub

2017-11-14 Thread Philip Williamson
The rotafix removal simply requires looping/folding the chain the opposite 
direction, and rotating the wheel forward instead of backwards.
For me, at 245 lbs, 32h wheels have been fine. More than fine. Your experience 
and comfort level may vary, though. 

Philip
www.biketinker.com

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Re: [RBW] Re: "We’ll have “classic” single speed frames again...."

2017-11-14 Thread Belopsky
Yep, that's also a possibility. Personally I like the hub body of the Grand 
Bois more

On Tuesday, November 14, 2017 at 9:38:30 AM UTC-5, Jeremy Tavan wrote:
>
> There's also the one from SunXCD, http://sunxcd.net/hubs/ - I use one in 
> my commuter bike and like it.
>
> On Tuesday, November 14, 2017 at 5:44:40 AM UTC-8, Belopsky wrote:
>>
>> Incorrect. 
>> http://www.cyclesgrandbois.com/SHOP/gb_lfqr_R120126.html
>>
>

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[RBW] Campagnolo on a Sam/Homer?

2017-11-14 Thread Drivel
Jtek shiftmates can also be an easy solution depending on the planned build. 

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Re: [RBW] "We’ll have “classic” single speed frames again...."

2017-11-14 Thread M G
If for a single speed, why not also have it versatile enough for fixed 
gear? IE horizontal dropouts.  Of course the White Eno eccentric hub is a 
game changer.  Becuase of a temporary move to a flattish town, i converted 
my Boulder rando bike to a fixed gear, and with the eccentric hub / 
vertical dropouts, i have a very rivvish fixed now. Which i am loving. 
Which is getting me to want ANOTHER one. But would not get a single speed 
frame that did not allow for fixed.

Ron
Berkshires MA [and Cambridge MA]


This is silly. It is a single speed or a manual shifter bike. For single 
> speed you need an EBB, sliders, or horizontatal drops. Adding a "dangler" 
> to it is like saying "I am not shifting my derailer bike so it is a single 
> speed". 
>
> regarding vertical drops, yes better, but not as good as through axles 
> once you enter disc territory. Better for caliper braked derailer bikes 
> though, IF the frame is straight enough.
>
> Clayton Scott
> ST, CA
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: "We’ll have “classic” single speed frames again...."

2017-11-14 Thread EasyRider
The long horizontal dropouts on my 53cm Rosco Bubbe road were a big reason 
I bought it. Some day I'll reinvent it as a single speed. It's a 1x8 now, 
and replaced an old Trek 330 road bike I had converted to fixed/free 12 
years earlier.

But even with horizontal dropouts it's a compromise as a singlespeed frame. 
The rear dropouts are 130mm, not 120mm, and because the frame can accept a 
large tire (700x42) the tricky part is chainring selection. I'd guess that 
40t or 42t is the biggest the bike could use while clearing the chainstay, 
achieving good chainline, and keeping the q-factor comfortable for me. On 
the other hand, a dedicated 120mm frame would allow larger chainrings. Not 
that I need 'em!


On Friday, November 10, 2017 at 12:21:51 AM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> The best rear fork end for ss or fixed is the long horizontal, sloped so 
> that your rear brake pads (if you use a rear caliper) remain more or less 
> aligned with the rim when you move the wheel back and forth. 
>
> I'd much rather have track ends on a ss/fixed frame than verticals, but 
> I'd much rather have long horizontals than track ends.
>
> Rivendell, please take note!
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Campagnolo on a Sam/Homer?

2017-11-14 Thread Nick Ybarra
Or just squeeze the dropouts in a smidge, and suddenly, all 130mm hubs are 
possible.  I've been running my Sam this way for years w/no ill effects.

On Tuesday, November 14, 2017 at 9:31:44 AM UTC-6, Drivel wrote:
>
> Jtek shiftmates can also be an easy solution depending on the planned 
> build. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: "We’ll have “classic” single speed frames again...."

2017-11-14 Thread iamkeith


On Tuesday, November 14, 2017 at 5:55:49 AM UTC-7, Belopsky wrote:
>
> Anyone think this could work? 120mm O.L.D. 
> https://janheine.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/hub_gb_hf_5sp_6sp.jpg
>
> Could use spacers and the like if you want to run a true single speed 
> setup or could maybe make a 5speed work too>?
>

I was tempted to make an obvious comment like "if you don't already own the 
frame, and what you really want is gears, then why"   but, on further 
reflection, I think this might actually be genius! * If* the bike's 
chainstay length and math happened to align, you could achieve a very clean 
looking stop-and-swap geared bike with a lot of useful range.

Theoretically, you could use a triple front and three cogs in back which 
would give you three very distinct gear ratios, which would barely even 
change the effective chainstay length at all, and which would all having 
perfect chainlines.

Something like:  46/12, 38/20, & 30/28.

But... *depending on where the hub happened to fall* along the length of 
the dropout slot when in those gears... and *assuming Riv makes the slots 
long enough to take up an 8-tooth difference *like they did with the QB and 
SO...  you could potentially add a 4th rear cog at the end, which could 
ALSO work with the smaller chainring.  For this example, a 36. 

If you used the remaining space on the cassette driver to adjust the 
side-to-side location of the cogs so that their chainlines fell exactly 
half way between those of the chainrings , EVERY chainring would work with 
two distinct cogs.  6 gears total! (You'd never have a "perfect" chainline 
in any gear combination, but that doesn't seem to be an issue in practice 
anyway.)

So that would potentially give you something like:  46/12, 46/20, 38/20, 
38/28, 30/28 & 30/36.  Or, stated as ratios, 1:  3.83, 2.3, 1.9, 1.36, 1.07 
& 0.83.

I suppose that smaller increments would work too, if necessary.  Just make 
sure you get quick release axles, or you'll never even bother taking the 
time to swap and take advantage of it.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Advice for Poser Fixed on Flip Flop of ss/ss hub

2017-11-14 Thread Patrick Moore
That's pretty good. Thanks for posting this. Not that I use hubs without
lockrings, or that I even need a lockring, but if I ever do, this will
provide at least a theoretical additional margin of safety.

If you ever find that article on jam nuts, please post that too.

On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 1:06 AM, Philip Williamson <
philip.william...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Rotafix: http://204.73.203.34/fisso/eng/schpignone.htm
> How is it better than honking up a hill? Leverage. Your weight and core
> strength on a 46t ring is nothing compared to a virtual 12t ring and a
> 622mm crank arm. You stop cranking when you get scared, not when the cog
> stops moving.
>
> Philip
> www.biketinker.com
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Advice for Poser Fixed on Flip Flop of ss/ss hub

2017-11-14 Thread Deacon Patrick
Yeah, Philip, but still ... 
https://thegrid.ai/withabandon/when-is-underbiking-just-biking

Grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

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Re: [RBW] Re: Advice for Poser Fixed on Flip Flop of ss/ss hub

2017-11-14 Thread Philip Williamson
Pushing a bike doesn't stress the wheels at all. 

https://flic.kr/p/4YmkCu
https://flic.kr/p/4Yh5kt
Velocity Fusion 32h, Suzue Pro Max track hubs, 28mm speedblends. The next 
guy put them on a Karate Monkey he treated like a BMX bike. Wheels were 
fine. 

Philip
www.biketinker.com

On Tuesday, November 14, 2017 at 9:43:51 AM UTC-8, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> Yeah, Philip, but still ... 
> https://thegrid.ai/withabandon/when-is-underbiking-just-biking
>
> Grin.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Advice for Poser Fixed on Flip Flop of ss/ss hub

2017-11-14 Thread Deacon Patrick
It will be an interesting learning experience, and without yet experiencing any 
fixed riding, I anticipate mostly saving the fixed for snow riding because the 
gearing is lower than my ss. This is because my chain rings (32/40) of course 
remain the same, but the dual cogs shift from ss 16/19 to fix 17/21, yielding 
in gear inches:

SS: 68/46
Fix: 64/42

I’m curious to see how I like riding up the pass in 64 fixed. Everything I’ve 
read says gear higher for fixed v. ss, but the only reason they give is the 
descents. I climb up the pass in the 68 ss at times, so it will be interesting 
to compare. But the lower gearing looks good for when the snow makes the go 
harder. Grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

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[RBW] Old Man Petersen's House of Ferrous Velocipedes and Vinyl Seat Tube Decals

2017-11-14 Thread 'Norman Bone' via RBW Owners Bunch
All-These were printed back in Jan. 2016 and sold out almost immediately. With 
the resurrection of this thread, folks have started sending me money for 
stickers that I don't have. Since there may be some new demand, I'm considering 
doing another run of 100. If I do, I'll post here when I have them in hand. In 
the mean time, please hold off on sending $. To help gauge demand, if you would 
be interested in buying some stickers, please email me OFF LIST. 
Thanks-
Norm 'if you've got the money, honey' Bone in Portland, OR
bone1...@yahoo.com

  From: Marc Irwin 
 To: RBW Owners Bunch  
 Sent: Thursday, November 2, 2017 8:36 AM
 Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Old Man Petersen's House of Ferrous Velocipedes and 
Vinyl Seat Tube Decals
   
I saw this thread pop up yesterday and thought it current.  I sent him a 
request without even considering the date of the thread.  Do you still have one 
Steve?  I'd love to get my hands on one.
Marc

On Wednesday, November 1, 2017 at 6:39:17 AM UTC-4, islaysteve wrote:
If you can't get one thru the original maker, message me.  I can send you a 
spare
Steve Alkire


On Wednesday, November 1, 2017 at 6:16:48 AM UTC-4, Fullylugged wrote:
Does anyone know if any of these are left? or Norman's email so I can ask him?

-- 

   

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Re: [RBW] Re: Advice for Poser Fixed on Flip Flop of ss/ss hub

2017-11-14 Thread Philip Williamson
That looks like a smart gear choice.

Philip
www.biketinker.com

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[RBW] Clem Smith Jr L - "done"

2017-11-14 Thread Belopsky
Bad photo ;)

https://photos.app.goo.gl/n5nuKTtsGhiTj6EF2

I was hoping the sack was a bit bigger, so that's a bit of a bummer, but I 
wanted a blue one and none of the blue mediums were in stock at Riv

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[RBW] Re: Clem Smith Jr L - "done"

2017-11-14 Thread 'Ann L' via RBW Owners Bunch
The bike looks great.  I really like the look of the honey Brooks saddle 
against the green.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Advice for Poser Fixed on Flip Flop of ss/ss hub

2017-11-14 Thread Deacon Patrick
Phil, pushing the bike, no, but unexpected rocks, roots, drops and other 
adventures easily could.

So, to double check my understanding of the physics of the rotafix technique 
and why it doesn’t require a lock ring (until it does) ... toque via the lever 
of the wheel snugs up the cog tighter than the same wheel will exert the other 
directly even under braking force because less friction with the ground than 
the 100% friction (effectively) of my hand when tightening. Do I have it right?

To comfort any concerned by the suicide hub name, that refers to riding a fixed 
cog on free wheel hub without rim brakes, relying only on backpedaling for 
braking.

One more question: what is the best ride value hub (as in not bling for bling’s 
sake, but will be the last hub this bike ever needs without costing too much) 
for a 120 flip/flop fix/ss hub? I have Surly at the bottom of pricepoint, high 
on the value scale, but does it rise to being a lifetime hub? If not what’s 
next and why? (Ducking now to let all the opinions fly by! Grin.).

With abandon,
Patrick

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Re: [RBW] Re: "We’ll have “classic” single speed frames again...."

2017-11-14 Thread Belopsky
>From what Grant's written about the coming bike.. "• 120 rear spacing, new 
rear dropouts---track style...two eyes for rak & fendr. No der tab. Angle 
like Quickbeam's, long, too." it may work

On Tuesday, November 14, 2017 at 11:34:03 AM UTC-5, iamkeith wrote:
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, November 14, 2017 at 5:55:49 AM UTC-7, Belopsky wrote:
>>
>> Anyone think this could work? 120mm O.L.D. 
>> https://janheine.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/hub_gb_hf_5sp_6sp.jpg
>>
>> Could use spacers and the like if you want to run a true single speed 
>> setup or could maybe make a 5speed work too>?
>>
>
> I was tempted to make an obvious comment like "if you don't already own 
> the frame, and what you really want is gears, then why"   but, on 
> further reflection, I think this might actually be genius! * If* the 
> bike's chainstay length and math happened to align, you could achieve a 
> very clean looking stop-and-swap geared bike with a lot of useful range.
>
> Theoretically, you could use a triple front and three cogs in back which 
> would give you three very distinct gear ratios, which would barely even 
> change the effective chainstay length at all, and which would all having 
> perfect chainlines.
>
> Something like:  46/12, 38/20, & 30/28.
>
> But... *depending on where the hub happened to fall* along the length of 
> the dropout slot when in those gears... and *assuming Riv makes the slots 
> long enough to take up an 8-tooth difference *like they did with the QB 
> and SO...  you could potentially add a 4th rear cog at the end, which could 
> ALSO work with the smaller chainring.  For this example, a 36. 
>
> If you used the remaining space on the cassette driver to adjust the 
> side-to-side location of the cogs so that their chainlines fell exactly 
> half way between those of the chainrings , EVERY chainring would work with 
> two distinct cogs.  6 gears total! (You'd never have a "perfect" chainline 
> in any gear combination, but that doesn't seem to be an issue in practice 
> anyway.)
>
> So that would potentially give you something like:  46/12, 46/20, 38/20, 
> 38/28, 30/28 & 30/36.  Or, stated as ratios, 1:  3.83, 2.3, 1.9, 1.36, 1.07 
> & 0.83.
>
> I suppose that smaller increments would work too, if necessary.  Just make 
> sure you get quick release axles, or you'll never even bother taking the 
> time to swap and take advantage of it.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Advice for Poser Fixed on Flip Flop of ss/ss hub

2017-11-14 Thread Philip Williamson
I don’t know physics. “Artist!” Empirically, it gets Really Effin Tight. 

Artist Math: I imagine that’s because the virtual lever putting the cog on is 
longer than the lever (braking) trying to remove it. 
The end of the installation lever is the diameter of your bottom bracket shell, 
and it’s firmly anchored. The force applied is also firmly anchored. The lever 
on the cog when braking is the diameter of your 32t chainring (and crank arm?) 
and neither end of the system is firmly fixed; at maximum application the tire 
will slide, and your weight will rise.
If you DO knock the cog loose, the bike will freewheel, and you will have to 
stop with your handbrakes in order to spin the cog back on to the hub. Again: 
I’m not an engineer.

Surly ultra plus new ultimate (whatever they call the current generation) will 
be a lifetime hub.

Philip
www.biketinker.com

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[RBW] Re: FS: Sage Green 64cm Rivendell Rambouillet Frameset

2017-11-14 Thread Keith Muller
Price Drop!  $700 shipped!

Keith

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[RBW] FS: Parts Bin Purge

2017-11-14 Thread Keith Muller
Update:

Nitto cockpit is sold.  Shifters are still available.

Shifters: 9 speed Shimano Dura-Ace - $60 shipped

TA Crank - $260 shipped 

Phil BB - $80 shipped

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[RBW] Re: "We’ll have “classic” single speed frames again...."

2017-11-14 Thread tc
Is there a poll function available on this group or do we have to make and 
insert our own?

On Thursday, November 9, 2017 at 8:00:13 PM UTC-5, tc wrote:
>
> ...says Will in the November 9th (today) Blug post.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Advice for Poser Fixed on Flip Flop of ss/ss hub

2017-11-14 Thread Deacon Patrick
Ahhh. Theologian. Artist. Together, we got this. Grin. I see it more clearly 
now, thanks to what you said. The chain isn’t a lever, just a method of 
transfering power generated by levers. The tightening lever is the radius of 
the wheel, call it 14”. The loosening lever is the crank arm, 175mm, call it 7” 
SO the tightening lever is twice as long as the loosening lever. Add to that 
the fact that the loosening lever is efectively variable length (only 7” of 
torque being fully applied for say 1/3” of the time), and the radius of the 
wheel applies as a loosening fulcrum, but the tire will skid before full 
pressure applies, thus making it possible to ride a suicide hub with abandon. 
Grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

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Re: [RBW] Re: Advice for Poser Fixed on Flip Flop of ss/ss hub

2017-11-14 Thread Deacon Patrick
Now I’ll sit back and be humbled and bemused as an engineer or physicist 
schools me. Grin.

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[RBW] Re: Campagnolo on a Sam/Homer?

2017-11-14 Thread Adam Kilgas
Thanks for all the help, guys!  My reason for asking is because I have a 
lightly used Veloce groupset.  I was kinda doubtful if the crankset would fit, 
too...thanks for the info on that.

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[RBW] Re: Campagnolo on a Sam/Homer?

2017-11-14 Thread Joe Bernard
Adam, don't quote me on this 'cause I haven't searched to refresh my memory, 
but if it's a Veloce 10 group I think it'll shift a Shimano/SRAM 8 cassette. 
That'd be Campy on the super cheap!

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[RBW] Clem Smith Jr L - "done"

2017-11-14 Thread Joe Bernard
That's a good looking L, Igor! I just sold another bike - which helps support 
my upcoming Cheviot - so I'm leaning towards keeping my bronzey green Clem L 
now. 

If you need a bigger bag there's a nice Large Grey Sackville around here or the 
iBob list. I have grey bags on mine and it looks great with the green frame. 

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