[RBW] Re: Smokey with a chance of Scattered Showers

[Tony DeFilippo]

I agree with Erl that shot of the flower in focus with the bike just visible 
but out of focus is great!

I'll be interested in your expanded thoughts of the compass knobbies with your 
bike packing rig.  The 650b version is tempting to try out on my Saluki even 
though I have very little off pavement riding time right now.

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[RBW] Re: New shoes (and rims) for the Sam Hillborne

['Tony McG' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Thanks for the info! The mill finish sounds interesting; I'll have the 
buyer at my LBS give them a call.

On Thursday, June 21, 2018 at 9:12:06 PM UTC-5, comveo wrote:
>
> Hey Tony,
>
> There is a way to get some non-polished silver action on just about any 
> Velocity rim, but you'll have to ask them. As a shop owner, I've asked to 
> have rims left with their "mill finish" which, while not true ano, has a 
> very classy look in it's own right. I have some raw Atlas rims on my 
> Appaloosa and boy are they purdy. Timing is everything with this option 
> however, as they have to deliberately set them aside before finishing as 
> usual. 
>
> Hope this helps! Ain't bikes fun? : )
>

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Re: [RBW] Thanks Grant

[Max S]

Patrick (and many others) make good points. To inject some facts and focus the 
discussion on productive matters: 

Blog post on Marginal Revolution 

“by  Tyler Cowen June 21, 2018 at 8:10 pm in Data Source Law

Number of unaccompanied minors, age 17 or lower, apprehended during or after 
border crossings, fiscal year 2017:

41,456

Trump aside, what exactly is the plan here?

Hat tip goes to @BaldingsWorld.”

The dilemma or trade-off here has to do with the fact that citizens generally 
want to see their country defined in part through controlled borders, but 
citizens of a country (attractive to immigrants) also find the details of 
border definition enforcement repugnant. How does the nation practically 
circumvent the trade-off? 

- Max “Let’s Have a Constructive and Civil Discussion” in A2

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Re: [RBW] Do I need this toothed spacer on my bike?

[Ron Mc]

Try a thinner M6 Nordlock from fastenall 
- https://www.fastenal.com/products/details/0129503

On Thursday, June 21, 2018 at 3:51:47 PM UTC-5, Reed Kennedy wrote:
>
> Not if it works without it, in my opinion.
>
> I've both used and not-used them. Problems I've had when not-using:
> 1) Pads run in to fork blades, because the caliper is nearer the fork.
> 2) Threaded rod that bolts the caliper to the fork crown sticks out extra 
> in the back. That's more of a problem with a recessed setup, because it can 
> keep your allen key from extending deep enough in to the nut to provide 
> good torque.
>
> The obvious problem of caliper rotation isn't actually much of a problem, 
> as the caliper is mostly self-centering when set up correctly.
>
> OTOH, they only cost $1 or so at your LBS, and you are *supposed* to have 
> one. I've now added them back to all the bikes where they had been missing.
>
>
> Best,
> Reed
>
> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 1:41 PM Lum Gim Fong  > wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the info.
>>
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Re: [RBW] Do I need this toothed spacer on my bike?

[Ron Mc]

and don't forget to load your cart with other useful bike fasteners

On Friday, June 22, 2018 at 6:48:26 AM UTC-5, Ron Mc wrote:
>
> Try a thinner M6 Nordlock from fastenall - 
> https://www.fastenal.com/products/details/0129503
>
>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Other annoying threads

[Ron Mc]

I don't post on annoying threads - oops.  

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[RBW] Re: New Frame Day! Almost a trade of a Black Mountain Road for a LEO

[lambbo]

Leo is the best Thanks Bill

On Thursday, June 21, 2018 at 7:56:03 PM UTC-4, Dave Grossman wrote:
>
> Ugh Billyou are contunuously making me want to finally get the Leo. 
>  Seems like everything I want in a road bike these days.

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[RBW] Re: Cutting down Grip area of Albatross bars?

[Ron Mc]

there's no mechanical disadvantage to shortening a bar - safety isn't an 
issue

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[RBW] Re: New Frame Day! Almost a trade of a Black Mountain Road for a LEO

[Austin B.]

It’s the Leo’s stack height that did it for me. I’m on a 62cm frame with a 
stack height of 636mm + 50mm of spacers + a VO tall stack stem. I’m at the top 
of my uncut 350mm steerer tube and my bars are still not quite level with my 
saddle.

There aren’t too many XL frames out there that get the stack height up. I still 
think that XL frames with a 6 degree sloping TT look gangly, but I’m going 
function over form here. At least it seems like things are trending in steeper 
TT and higher stacks (and wider tires) as an industry—good stuff!

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[RBW] Re: PSA Ram on Ebay

[Ana Candela]

I happened upon it the other day when I went to Goodwill to pick up some stuff 
I had bought. Very exciting to see a Rivendell frame just sitting there next to 
the wall. I even took a few photos, and as Lim says, not only could it have 
been never ridden, but never built even. However, it looked as if it had been 
stored in some abandoned corner of a shed or such all this time, and I’m bummed 
to report of rust.

Bob: I’m guessing the original winning bidder saw the frame and decided not 
worth to restore :(

-Ana

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[RBW] Re: New Frame Day! Almost a trade of a Black Mountain Road for a LEO

[Dave Grossman]

I hear you Austin.  My issue exactly.  Anti long and low!

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[RBW] Re: PSA Ram on Ebay

[Ana Candela]

Here’s a link to the photos: https://photos.app.goo.gl/QRyiMsDqdJX2Tzby8

-Ana

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[RBW] Re: New Frame Day! Almost a trade of a Black Mountain Road for a LEO

[Belopsky]

Read somewhere else online

low is fast
long is strong

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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[RBW] Re: FS: NITTO Tallux stem

[Lum Gim Fong]

Sold

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Re: [RBW] Thanks Grant

[Joe Bernard]

The thread is about children - including babies - being torn from their 
parents, not unaccompanied minors. 

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[RBW] dogs on Rivs

[Ana Candela]

I once tried it with a trailer and my 40ish-pound dog, and she jumped out of it 
within the first 20 feet. I gave up after a couple more tires. Goes without 
saying to try it in a park or on a residential street before trying streets 
with traffic.

Last Saturday at Rivelo’s anniversary party, their two granddogs (Boston 
Terriers) rode in cocoon-shaped backpacks, so cute! So that could be another 
option to acquaint your dog with riding and then graduate to the basket.

-Ana

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Re: [RBW] dogs on Rivs

[Patrick Moore]

Adding to the original question: how did you (all) train your dog *not* to
jump out of whatever conveyance it was in? I'd like to find a way to carry
my ~20 lb dog to the dog park some 3 miles away, but he's hardly one to sit
still unless restrained in some way.

On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 8:15 AM, Ana Candela  wrote:

> I once tried it with a trailer and my 40ish-pound dog, and she jumped out
> of it within the first 20 feet. I gave up after a couple more tires. Goes
> without saying to try it in a park or on a residential street before trying
> streets with traffic.
>
> Last Saturday at Rivelo’s anniversary party, their two granddogs (Boston
> Terriers) rode in cocoon-shaped backpacks, so cute! So that could be
> another option to acquaint your dog with riding and then graduate to the
> basket.
>
> -Ana
>
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Re: [RBW] dogs on Rivs

[Wally Estrella]

I put the milk crate in the middle of the living room.  A few days of 
this
Then put the crate on the side so the top was perpendicular to the floor.  
Put a treat for him to go in to get it.  A few more days of this...
Then flipped it upright so he then had to jump into the crate to get the 
treat.  A few more days of this
Then got him to jump into the crate then "SIT" then offered the treat.  A 
few more days of this
Then fastened the crate to the bike.  Put Iver into it, "SIT", here's a 
treat, then walked him around the drive way. A few more days of this
Then short rides to the end of the drive way. Then hit the road.  He loves 
it and gets excited when he sees me fastening the crate to the bike then 
"Let's go for a ride!".



On Friday, June 22, 2018 at 10:18:29 AM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Adding to the original question: how did you (all) train your dog *not* to 
> jump out of whatever conveyance it was in? I'd like to find a way to carry 
> my ~20 lb dog to the dog park some 3 miles away, but he's hardly one to sit 
> still unless restrained in some way. 
>
> On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 8:15 AM, Ana Candela  > wrote:
>
>> I once tried it with a trailer and my 40ish-pound dog, and she jumped out 
>> of it within the first 20 feet. I gave up after a couple more tires. Goes 
>> without saying to try it in a park or on a residential street before trying 
>> streets with traffic.
>>
>> Last Saturday at Rivelo’s anniversary party, their two granddogs (Boston 
>> Terriers) rode in cocoon-shaped backpacks, so cute! So that could be 
>> another option to acquaint your dog with riding and then graduate to the 
>> basket.
>>
>> -Ana
>>
>> -- 
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>
>
>
> -- 
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> **
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Re: [RBW] dogs on Rivs

[Brad]

Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Adding to the original question: how did you (all) train your dog *not* to 
> jump out of whatever conveyance it was in? I'd like to find a way to carry 
> my ~20 lb dog to the dog park some 3 miles away, but he's hardly one to sit 
> still unless restrained in some way. 
>
>
For a few weeks, my dog rode in a closed soft-sided carrier. Once she got 
comfortable in that, I tried slowly riding around the park with the top 
open. Because we were riding slowly in the park, I could talk to her, pet 
her, and make sure she stayed sitting. When she settled down riding with 
the top of the carrier open, we started riding to the park that way. It 
didn't take long before she could ride sitting in a tote bag. I still 
tether her harness to my handlebars to make sure she doesn't fall off if I 
stop short. 

I never let her jump off the bike. She knows that she stays in the tote bag 
until I lift it out of the basket and set it on the ground. 

We've been riding this way for 8 years or so. She's great when we're 
riding- she doesn't fidget anymore (even a little wiggle can throw off your 
steering a bit) and she leans into turns.

It sounds like Wally had a similar process:  go slow and break it down into 
little steps.

Brad
Queens

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[RBW] Re: PSA Ram on Ebay

[Bob Lovejoy]

Wow...! :>(

Thanks Ana!  Nothing like an in-person report and pictures.  I am sure you 
have saved some from some unexpected heartache.  If someone bids on it now, 
at least they will know a lot more.

And agreed on what probably happened with the previous bidder/winner.

Thanks again for the report and pictures.

Bob


On Friday, June 22, 2018 at 8:15:40 AM UTC-5, Ana Candela wrote:
>
> Here’s a link to the photos: https://photos.app.goo.gl/QRyiMsDqdJX2Tzby8 
>
> -Ana

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[RBW] Re: PSA Ram on Ebay

[Lum Gim Fong]

I heard of a guy who found a waterford at the Goodwill and I think he said he 
paid 25 bucks for it or something like that. I guess whoever works at that 
branch knows what to Rivendell bike is So they are using it to raise money for 
charity. Too bad about the rust. But I bet it could be sandblasted and 
repainted. I bet it would be fine. But that will probably cost 300+ dollars.

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[RBW] Re: New Frame Day! Almost a trade of a Black Mountain Road for a LEO

[Christopher Murray]

Thanks Bill! I just put my Roadini in the work stand to build up. What’s your 
PBH? From your previous posts, I thought we were about the same size and mine 
is a 54. 

With only the bars, saddle, and wheels on the thing that strikes me is how high 
the handlebars are. The bars look almost level with the saddle with the stem 
slammed. 

Thanks,
Chris

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[RBW] Re: Anyone bought a 47 or 50 MIT Atlantis?

[Stasi Chase]

I am 5'4" with a 78.5pbh, so a little shorter than you.  When I recently 
tested out a 50 Atlantis (this week).  I LOVED the feel of the bike but my 
junk was way too smashed into the top tube when standing astride.  You're a 
smidge taller than me so you won't have quite the same amount of smashiness.

If you're comfortable being just a hair taller than the top tube, the rest 
of the bike should work well for you.

YMMV  :)


On Thursday, June 21, 2018 at 6:37:10 PM UTC-7, ed wrote:
>
> Hi,
> Anyone who bought a 47 or 50 MIT Atlantis?
> I would like to hear your fit experience with the new geometry.
>
> With my height at 5' 5" and pbh of 79-80 so I am between size 47 and 50 of 
> the new MIT Atlantis
>
> I currently ride the following;
> a.  48 Hunqapillar (Ahearn Map handlebar with 12cm stem) - fits me 
> perfectly
> b.  51 Atlantis (Albatross bars with 13cm stem) - feels cramped and I 
> often experience TCO
> c.  50 Cheviot (Albatross bars with 13cm stem) - fits me perfectly
>
> Riv suggest that I get size 47 MIT Atlantis but I am worried that I will 
> still feel cramped since the top tube is only 0.5cm longer than my current 
> 51 Atlantis.
> With the 50 MIT Atlantis, the top tube will be 2cm longer than my current 
> 51 Atlantis (old) not to mention that the front center will be the same 
> with my 48 Hunqapillar where I am not having TCO experience.
>
> Thank you guys for any advise.
>
> PS I currently use 165mm cranks on all my Riv bikes but plan to use 152 
> Sugino cranks with the MIT Atlantis.  This should help increase my seat 
> height.
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Cutting down Grip area of Albatross bars?

[Mark Anderson]

On Friday, June 22, 2018 at 7:10:45 AM UTC-5, Ron Mc wrote:
>
> there's no mechanical disadvantage to shortening a bar - safety isn't an 
> issue
>

I think the problem is that to make an aluminum (maybe also steel) bar with 
a small enough outer diameter for mountain bike-style brake levers, the 
inner diameter is too small to fit bar end shifters made for drop bars. 
 Just a small portion at the ends of the bars are made to have thinner 
walls, allowing the the shifters to fit.  

So, one could follow Joe's instruction to measure the space in the bar, but 
one must measure only the thinned-out portion.  The bend is not the issue 
here.  

Alternatively, Lester's advice to ask people who actually know the answer 
to the question (Rivendellians) is sound.  I vaguely recall Grant having 
written at some point that there's not much available to cut off.

-- 
Mark Anderson in Chicago

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[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

[Stasi Chase]

I was at Rivendell purchasing a bike on the 19th (the date this blahg was 
posted) and had a conversation with the guys about how I felt guilty 
spending big $$$ on a bike when I should be donating it to the ACLU or some 
other organization helping out these families.  I imagine that hearing 
directly from customers that these crazy-ass policies impact their 
customers' purchasing decisions gave them pause.

We live in strange times.  We could all use to lean on eachother a little.  
I'm glad that Grant is using his platform to speak up and I'm happy to 
support this unique, small company with real, caring people at its heart. 

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[RBW] RBW Facebook Owners Bunch - Now Open Group?

[Austin B.]

When did the RBW Owners Bunch on Facebook change to an open group? It's 
always been closed and my wife recently noticed some photos I posted to the 
group.

I personally prefer a closed group as I don't want everyone I'm connected 
to seeing what I do in a various group. 

I don't post or comment a ton, but I'm less inclined to do so with it open 
& visible to all.

-Austin B
Sykesville, MD

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[RBW] Re: PSA Ram on Ebay

[Kieran J]

Wow, that's a shame for an NOS frame. The seat cluster is pretty bad. No 
doubt it could be stripped and restored but as Lum says, that would add $$ 
and extra effort. 

KJ


On Friday, June 22, 2018 at 6:15:40 AM UTC-7, Ana Candela wrote:
>
> Here’s a link to the photos: https://photos.app.goo.gl/QRyiMsDqdJX2Tzby8 
>
> -Ana

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[RBW] Re: New Frame Day! Almost a trade of a Black Mountain Road for a LEO

[Bill Lindsay]

Christopher Murray asked me my PBH.  

86cm.  

On Friday, June 22, 2018 at 8:50:51 AM UTC-7, Christopher Murray wrote:
>
> Thanks Bill! I just put my Roadini in the work stand to build up. What’s 
> your PBH? From your previous posts, I thought we were about the same size 
> and mine is a 54. 
>
> With only the bars, saddle, and wheels on the thing that strikes me is how 
> high the handlebars are. The bars look almost level with the saddle with 
> the stem slammed. 
>
> Thanks, 
> Chris

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[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

[Jim Edgar]

Justin - 

I'm the admin of both groups.  

I left the thread unmolested here because historically, the quality of 
interaction within this group remains high. Even though I try to retain 
high quality within both venues, there's a difference. Although this thread 
has veered and swerved, it did not devolve into name-calling and enough 
nastyness to warrant deletion. Hence it remains.

In the thread you started on Facebook, there were three comments of a much 
more personal nature. It wasn't going well, and I elected to delete the 
thread.  

As I wrote over there, maybe I jumped the gun.  But, it got directly 
personal in those three posts while I happened to be on the FB, and two 
people flagged those posts. So, you (and the members of that group) likely 
did not see them before everything went away.  

I don't really have time to continually police threads, so thought it would 
be better to remove the entire post. 

If I had a problem with the content or felt there was a deeper issue, I 
would have contacted you directly. 

regards, and thanks again to all who make up this community,

- Jim

On Thursday, June 21, 2018 at 9:26:03 PM UTC-7, Justin, Oakland wrote:
>
> Sadly the admin of the Facebook group deleted a similar thread. 
>
> -J
>

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Re: [RBW] J.P. Weigle For Sale

[John G.]

Not to gloat, but I am delighted to have snagged this. Perfect size for me. 
I’ll need to move a bike on, but this should be a great brevet bike.

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Re: [RBW] Re: J.P. Weigle For Sale

[Jim Bronson]

If someone bought it from this group, it found a new home in roughly 20
minutes.

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:10 AM S. Greco  wrote:

> Thanks for the interest.
> This Weigle has found a new home.
>
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Re: [RBW] J.P. Weigle For Sale

[Jim Bronson]

If I had bought this bike, I would have gloated also!

On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 11:13 AM John G.  wrote:

> Not to gloat, but I am delighted to have snagged this. Perfect size for
> me. I’ll need to move a bike on, but this should be a great brevet bike.
>
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Re: [RBW] J.P. Weigle For Sale

[S. Greco]

I don't have too much info on the stem, but I'm a sucker for brakes routed 
thru a stem and I wish more stems had threads for a bell :)
I bought two frames with slightly different geo but matching paint built by 
Peter for a merchant marine sometime in the 90s.
The smaller frame was just a frame/fork which I built up and sold. This 
frame was built with full super record group and this stem.
I've been slowly tinkering with the build over the years.
I'm definitely going to miss this one, but I'm super happy it found a home 
with someone on this list.


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[RBW] Re: Cutting down Grip area of Albatross bars?

[Joe Bernard]

Yes, I meant "measure the thinned-out portion"..I couldn't think of what to 
call it. Thinned-out it is!

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Re: [RBW] J.P. Weigle For Sale

[S. Greco]

Here's the other one from years ago, now currently residing somewhere in LA 
I believe.
It was a bit too small for me, but the Ahearne bars with a Paul Thumbie was 
a nice setup.
The one John G. just snagged is way nicer with much better details. You're 
gonna love it John!



 





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[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

[masmojo]

As Joe pointed out, the reason for Grants comments (& thus this thread), was 
children being separated from their parents, NOT unaccompanied minors.
It's sort of a tactic and semantics really to refer to these people as 
criminals when the crime for most of them is entering this country illegally.  
The fact is refugee is a more correct term and I  dare say that most of us 
would do the same thing if we found ourselves in their position. This really 
amounts to victim blaming which anyone who rides a bike should be familiar with.
If we weren't fermenting toxic relationships with our Central American 
neighbors then maybe we could work with them to solve these peoples problems 
instead of trying to coerce them into paying for a stupid wall. 
It should be worth noting that after making that post Grant didn't post any if 
the replys he got about it.

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[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

[Joe Bernard]

It should also be noted that in the previous Blahg Grant mentioned he doesn't 
look at the replies, Dave does. 

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[RBW] Re: Other annoying threads

[masmojo]

I read somewhere that the Prius is now the #1 car for owner retention. At the 
time I read that the average Prius owner was going in 11 years & counting!
Now, I  realize that Prius are technically hybirds, but the fact is that 
mechanically there's  far less involved with an electric car then a petrol 
powered car or even a hybrid. So, long term electric car owners should be able 
to get massive numbers of miles out of their vehicles and aside from the 
eventual battery change, service should be cheaper as well.
Point being, that while you might make a case for a negative environmental 
impact initially, over the long hual electric should overcome it's gasoline 
brother and surpass it  by a healthy margin.
My major worry with electric cars is fire issues & water encroachment over time 
or in flood situations.

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[RBW] Re: Other annoying threads

[Deborah Coffin]

Following up on Clayton’s wish that gasoline-powered cars were a thing of the 
past: Traveling in England last year, on narrow, hedgerow-lined one lane roads, 
I thought about how much more scary it would be if all the cars in the road 
were electric and silent. I’m sure I’d have been hit, walking or riding. Should 
electric cars make more noise? 

As for annoying threads, I’ve been loving all of them. You are an entertaining 
bunch of people, for sure. 

Thank you from the wings,
Deborah—New Cheviot owner in the Bay Area.

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[RBW] Re: Other annoying threads

[Joe Bernard]

I owned a Prius and can understand the owner loyalty to their old car. It's 
more accurately a bizarre transportation pod than what most of us think of as 
"car", which has the unusual effect (in car world) of removing it from concepts 
like model years and dated styling. The Gen 2 model I had (the ones that are 
11-years-old now) hummed and clicked, the gas engine shut down a lot, the 
shifter was weird and the revs rose and fell independent of road speed, and 
it's HUGE inside while being comically easy to park. Plus it looks like a Prius 
kinda like Rivs look like Rivs: They don't really have "older" and "newer" 
looks. 

Which is a large digression about cars, but somebody else brought it up so oops!

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[RBW] Re: New Frame Day! Almost a trade of a Black Mountain Road for a LEO

[jack loudon]

Bill, thanks for all the informative reporting on your 'Leo'.  I've admired 
this bike from afar and you are making it very difficult for me to resist.  
The Roadini would be a replacement for my Nordavinden, which has not been 
ideal for purely subjective reasons.  I was taken aback when you reported 
the Leo frameset weight of 7.75 lb (my 56 Nordy is 6.25#), but your ride 
report has offset this concern and made me a bit ashamed of my latent 
weight weenie-ism.  Awhile ago you mentioned the possibility of a lighter, 
custom frame built to the geometry of your BMC Road.  Does that still hold 
true, or would your custom road frame now be more along the Roadini lines?

Jack
Seattle

On Thursday, June 21, 2018 at 10:38:12 AM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Followup ride reporting.  I did my 40 mile 3000ft commute to Union City 
> today on the Leo, and I did it "Full Send" as the kids like to say.  In 
> other words, I got after it.  The executive summary is that the Leo is 
> definitely a keeper.  I set PR times on numerous sections that I've ridden 
> many many times.  I definitely had a very good day on the bike, and I'm 
> still feeling that nice euphoria of putting a really good ride down.  At 
> worst, the Leo did not prevent me from having a great day.  The objective 
> fact is, the Leo today (with me on it) was faster than my Black Mountain 
> ever was (with me on it).  Qualitatively, the Leo today spun up faster than 
> the Black Mountain ever did.  I think that's mainly because I had a good 
> day, but I report it because so many people on this board claim to be able 
> to make nuanced comparisons between bikes as if their body and fitness was 
> a constant.  I assure you that my fitness, strength and attitude are not a 
> constant, and that makes it hard for me to make comparative judgments about 
> bikes.  Some people on this board make nuanced comparisons between bikes 
> they haven't ridden in decades.  That depth of recall amazes me, and I 
> don't have it.  I will say my Leo was a rocket today with me on it.  That 
> came into play on the descent of Redwood Road as well.  It's a 28-33mph 
> descent, and the pavement is mediocre.  The bumpiness tended to scrub speed 
> on the Black Mountain, but Leo appeared to roll over the roughness with 
> more stability, less speed-loss, and better comfort (with the identical 
> build kit that had been on the Black Mountain.  I highly recommend the Leo 
> for a non-racing road bike.
>
> It is still kind of shocking to walk the bike, because the bars are SO 
> high when I'm walking the bike.  I'm accustomed to them being lower.  The 
> fact that it's more upright doesn't seem to make it slower.  It does have a 
> 'vibe' or 'attitude' about it that made me feel a wee bit weird getting on 
> it in 'kit'.  Conversely, I felt a wee bit weird getting on the Black 
> Mountain Road *without* kit.  Both were fine in the costume or in 
> civvies, but the difference in vibe is notable.  
>
> BL in EC
>
> On Friday, June 8, 2018 at 12:24:16 PM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> Austin asked for more nuanced comparisons than I have the vernacular to 
>> describe. So my short answer is that I have not found any discernible 
>> differences in 'Sportiness'.  
>>
>> With stouter tubing, is the Roadini less flexible than the BMC?  I don't 
>> know that the Leo has stouter tubing.  If it does, I do not discern it to 
>> be less flexible
>> Does either the BMC or Roadini spin up/accelerate faster (neither are 
>> racing bikes, nor do I intend to race).  Not that I can say.  They both go 
>> faster the harder I pedal.  I don't run a power meter, so I don't know if 
>> one accelerates more quickly per unit power input
>> Which one has quicker steering?  Neither that I can discern.  They both 
>> go where my hips tell them to go
>> All things being equal, is one more "fun" to ride (might be hard given 
>> they are set up differently) Both are fun
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Cutting down Grip area of Albatross bars?

[Ian A]

Switching to Thumbies would be an option. 

IanA

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[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

[sameness]

Not entering the fray or offering an opinion, just fixing the picture:



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[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

[sameness]

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[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

[Joe Bernard]

I remember getting that RR. I never told Grant this (I don't think) but that 
really helped me to "unstick" after 9/11. My reaction to that atrocity was to 
just kind of STOP..my brain kept looping as if that day was The Last Day, and I 
couldn't move on into living with it as an "in the past" thing. I don't know if 
that makes sense - I'm surprised it's still so difficult to express so many 
years later - but in summary, he helped.  

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[RBW] Cheviot and Bike Rack

[Deborah Coffin]

I’m the happy owner of a new 50cm Cheviot, and am struggling to figure out how 
to safely transport it on my Mini Cooper. I have what I think is the only bike 
rack that works on my car—a Saris Bones. Apparently, unless it comes built for 
a hitch, Mini’s can’t be fitted with anything else. 

I’ve been mounting my bike between the top tune and behind the seat tube, then 
I turn the front wheel backwards so it doesn’t stick out too much. Right now I 
have no fenders or racks, but I’d like to get both, eventually, but wonder if 
that will make turning the front wheel impossible. The other issue is that the 
stays on the rack hit the bike at an odd angle, scratching and/or marking up 
the frame.

I tried one of the bars that connect between the seat post and stem, but then 
the back wheel extends really far beyond the car.

It’s the only sorrow I’ve had as a new owner, cause I’d like to take my bike 
with me across the country this summer. I took off the rear wheel to get it 
home when I bought it, but that’s sort of a pain. 

Beyond removing the wheels, or mounting it as I have been—or getting a 
different car—has anyone a better idea? Suggestions? Solutions? 

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[RBW] Cheviot and Bike Rack

[Joe Bernard]

It sounds like you need someone to install a hitch mount, then you can get a 
rack that uses trays to support the wheels instead of hanging by the frame. 
Here's a link about Mini's and hitches. 

https://new.minimania.com/Mini_Cooper_Hitch_Application_Guide_

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[RBW] Re: Other annoying threads

[lconley]

Every time you change the battery in an electric car, you have a relatively 
large backward step (increase in carbon footprint). Batteries are expensive 
because they consume a lot of energy to manufacture. The longer that 
battery lasts, the smaller your carbon footprint so take care of your 
battery if you want to minimize your carbon footprint. As technology 
marches forward, especially battery technology, the smaller the overall 
carbon footprint for electric cars will get. Gasoline engines have been 
continually developed for the last 120+ years and have a lot of 
infrastructure in place (gas stations etc.). Electric car technology kind 
of ground to a halt ~100 years ago and only in the last 20 or so has really 
picked back up. The electric cars 20 years from now will be way, way better 
than the ones they have now. The current Chevy Bolt (238 mile range) 
already makes the current Nissan Leaf (151 mile range) look stone age by 
comparison. The technology gets better every year. Once there are more 
recharging stations, it will be easier to travel intercity by electric car. 
One interesting aspect of commuting by electric car and charging at night 
is that the extra load on the electric grid at night usually helps the 
electric grid be more efficient. Generators are more efficient when fully 
loaded than partially loaded.

The other day when I parked in the low emitting and fuel efficient parking 
spot at work, there was a guy parking a Harley in another one of the spots. 
Being the annoying engineer that I am, I had to point out that he did not 
qualify, he was fuel efficient, but not low emitting. He predictably got 
very annoyed and claimed that fuel efficient and low emitting were the same 
thing, but they are not, at least not in Florida. Motorcycles do not have 
catalytic converters or evaporative emissions controls in Florida, not sure 
about other states, especially California. Motorcycles and scooters pollute 
all day and all night even when they are not running by letting their 
hydrocarbon fuels evaporate directly into the air. I read somewhere that a 
motorcycle puts out ten times the pollution of a modern car. Due to the 
small number of motorcycles and scooters, they are not a big part of the 
overall air pollution, so they have almost no regulations. So, while you 
may feel holier than thou sitting beside the SUV on your Vespa - you do 
have a smaller carbon foot print, there is a good chance that you are 
polluting the air more.

Bicycles put all kind of cars and motorcycles and scooters to shame, but 
unless you exhale through a carbon capture device, your carbon foot print 
is still not zero.

Geeking out on technology again.

Owning ten Rivs is probably not all that green.

Laing


On Friday, June 22, 2018 at 12:55:22 PM UTC-4, masmojo wrote:

> I read somewhere that the Prius is now the #1 car for owner retention. At 
> the time I read that the average Prius owner was going in 11 years & 
> counting!
> Now, I  realize that Prius are technically hybirds, but the fact is that 
> mechanically there's  far less involved with an electric car then a petrol 
> powered car or even a hybrid. So, long term electric car owners should be 
> able to get massive numbers of miles out of their vehicles and aside from 
> the eventual battery change, service should be cheaper as well.
> Point being, that while you might make a case for a negative environmental 
> impact initially, over the long hual electric should overcome it's gasoline 
> brother and surpass it  by a healthy margin.
> My major worry with electric cars is fire issues & water encroachment over 
> time or in flood situations.

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[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

[Joe Bernard]

I should clarify it comes up again elsewhere in that issue. The first paragraph 
isn't all Grant said. 

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[RBW] Re: Cheviot and Bike Rack

[Minh]

Deborah,

you don't mention what year MINI cooper you have (2002 here, yep, still 
have it :), as you've figured out, trunk racks are not a great option, also 
a warning i used a trunk rack in an emergency and ended up damaging my 
hatch (fender turned and hit the car during a rain storm).  

Joe points to a special product that installs under the bumper cover, 
depending on the model you may lose the backup light.  i''ve seen others 
use this, and if you can handle the install or find a local shop to install 
it, i think it's the cleanest option--though keep in mind that a hitch rack 
will also have the bike extending out beyond the car, just not at an 
angle.  

unfortunately MINIs and bikes aren't great fits, especially if you have 
fenders as it's nearly impossible to fit even inside the car!

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[RBW] Re: Cutting down Grip area of Albatross bars?

[phil k]

Yes it is. I rather like the bar ends on the upright bars though and they 
keep hitting my legs.

I tried measuring inside, but it's a bit difficult. I might have to call 
Riv and see what is possible. I'm already got a long reach stem on there.

On Friday, June 22, 2018 at 1:47:35 PM UTC-4, Ian A wrote:
>
> Switching to Thumbies would be an option. 
>
> IanA
>

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[RBW] Re: Other annoying threads

[phil k]

A new day, a new thing learned again for me. 

On Friday, June 22, 2018 at 2:42:20 PM UTC-4, lconley wrote:
>
> Every time you change the battery in an electric car, you have a 
> relatively large backward step (increase in carbon footprint). Batteries 
> are expensive because they consume a lot of energy to manufacture. The 
> longer that battery lasts, the smaller your carbon footprint so take care 
> of your battery if you want to minimize your carbon footprint. As 
> technology marches forward, especially battery technology, the smaller the 
> overall carbon footprint for electric cars will get. Gasoline engines have 
> been continually developed for the last 120+ years and have a lot of 
> infrastructure in place (gas stations etc.). Electric car technology kind 
> of ground to a halt ~100 years ago and only in the last 20 or so has really 
> picked back up. The electric cars 20 years from now will be way, way better 
> than the ones they have now. The current Chevy Bolt (238 mile range) 
> already makes the current Nissan Leaf (151 mile range) look stone age by 
> comparison. The technology gets better every year. Once there are more 
> recharging stations, it will be easier to travel intercity by electric car. 
> One interesting aspect of commuting by electric car and charging at night 
> is that the extra load on the electric grid at night usually helps the 
> electric grid be more efficient. Generators are more efficient when fully 
> loaded than partially loaded.
>
> The other day when I parked in the low emitting and fuel efficient parking 
> spot at work, there was a guy parking a Harley in another one of the spots. 
> Being the annoying engineer that I am, I had to point out that he did not 
> qualify, he was fuel efficient, but not low emitting. He predictably got 
> very annoyed and claimed that fuel efficient and low emitting were the same 
> thing, but they are not, at least not in Florida. Motorcycles do not have 
> catalytic converters or evaporative emissions controls in Florida, not sure 
> about other states, especially California. Motorcycles and scooters pollute 
> all day and all night even when they are not running by letting their 
> hydrocarbon fuels evaporate directly into the air. I read somewhere that a 
> motorcycle puts out ten times the pollution of a modern car. Due to the 
> small number of motorcycles and scooters, they are not a big part of the 
> overall air pollution, so they have almost no regulations. So, while you 
> may feel holier than thou sitting beside the SUV on your Vespa - you do 
> have a smaller carbon foot print, there is a good chance that you are 
> polluting the air more.
>
> Bicycles put all kind of cars and motorcycles and scooters to shame, but 
> unless you exhale through a carbon capture device, your carbon foot print 
> is still not zero.
>
> Geeking out on technology again.
>
> Owning ten Rivs is probably not all that green.
>
> Laing
>
>
> On Friday, June 22, 2018 at 12:55:22 PM UTC-4, masmojo wrote:
>
>> I read somewhere that the Prius is now the #1 car for owner retention. At 
>> the time I read that the average Prius owner was going in 11 years & 
>> counting!
>> Now, I  realize that Prius are technically hybirds, but the fact is that 
>> mechanically there's  far less involved with an electric car then a petrol 
>> powered car or even a hybrid. So, long term electric car owners should be 
>> able to get massive numbers of miles out of their vehicles and aside from 
>> the eventual battery change, service should be cheaper as well.
>> Point being, that while you might make a case for a negative 
>> environmental impact initially, over the long hual electric should overcome 
>> it's gasoline brother and surpass it  by a healthy margin.
>> My major worry with electric cars is fire issues & water encroachment 
>> over time or in flood situations.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Cheviot and Bike Rack

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

Hi Deborah,

My initial suggestion was going to be try investing in one of those stem to 
saddle adapter bars but I see you already went that route which just causes 
the rear wheel to stick out further than you are comfortable.

My alternate suggestion would be to look for possible roof rack options.  
I'm not a Mini owner but if it does not have roof rails there are still 
likely possible options from Thule, Yakima, etc. with feet that mount on 
the door jamb for use with cross bars.  I have not personally tried this 
but know they exist.

I still own a Saris Bones that I used on a prior car and had experienced 
similar issues mounting my wife's step through frame but fortunately the 
stem to seatpost adapter did the trick in that scenario and we didn't have 
the Cheviot wheelbase.  I also have Thule cross bars for use with my 9year 
old Subaru with roof rails and although I have not re-installed them the 
past several years and have more or less limited my cycling to local routes 
from my doorstep I still have two of Thule's entry level fork mounted roof 
bike racks in storage.  I do not actually recommend these for two reasons:  
(note: I'm referring to the style that require front wheel removal and the 
front fork of the bike mounts into the rack the same way the hub/wheel are 
installed using quick release lever... but instead of using the hubs QR 
skewer the rack has it's own skewer/dummy axle with built-in clamp and 
lock.)  Anyway back to the issues I found on the cheapest model:  The 
single wall construction of the tray for the rear wheel on the entry level 
model is a bit flimsy... likely even more so for a long wheelbase bike like 
the Chev and that's assuming the Chev would even fit.  Secondly, with the 
small cabin space of your Mini Cooper, you'll still need to store your 
front wheel and/or buy an additional carrier to mount up on the roof just 
to mount the front wheel separately.  If you went this route (with a roof 
rack option, if you could find a compatible rail system) you may be better 
off with the style rack that holds the whole bike with both wheels still 
installed there are still several different models of this type out 
there so do your research and check the length of the wheel tray vs. 
wheelbase of your Chev.  You may even find you'll need a tandem length 
carrier to make it all work.

Roof mounted bike racks offer another potential issue.  You can't see them 
up there and it's easy to forget and cause significant damage (to your car, 
bikes, garage, drive thru, etc.)  Not my proudest moment but I've been 
there, done that!  I was lucky in that situation too... my first iteration 
of roof racks on my new-at-the-time 2009 Subaru Outback included the Subaru 
factory cross bars plus a Thule "Ride-On" Adapter that essentially used 
it's own mini crossbars that clamp directly onto the vehicle's factory 
crossbars.  The bike carriers then mounted to this adapter instead of 
directly to the Subaru cross bars.  I once mistakenly drove into a hotel 
overhang after a long drive and my saddle caught the overhang while the 
single bolt clamps that held he Subaru factory cross bars to the roof rails 
were the weakest link and the entire bikes+racks+adapter+cross bars came 
off in one fully assembled piece.  The only actual casualty (confirmed by 
an LBS mechanic) was the saddle nose (though I eventually replaced the 
seatpost as well just to be safe) the plastic cover to a brake/shifter 
lever and the Subaru cross bars that failed.  The hotel staff laughed when 
I came in to tell them what just happened... as it turned out they just had 
an ambulance hit the same exact low overhang the week or two prior and 
still had not repaired it so it turned out I caused no further damage than 
the ambulance previously caused which was already paid for.  I later 
upgraded the cross bars to the more secure Thule version and learned 
to became more aware of when the bikes were up there.

Good luck!

Brian Cole
Lawrenceville, NJ

On Friday, June 22, 2018 at 2:09:28 PM UTC-4, Deborah Coffin wrote:

> I’m the happy owner of a new 50cm Cheviot, and am struggling to figure out 
> how to safely transport it on my Mini Cooper. I have what I think is the 
> only bike rack that works on my car—a Saris Bones. Apparently, unless it 
> comes built for a hitch, Mini’s can’t be fitted with anything else. 
>
> I’ve been mounting my bike between the top tune and behind the seat tube, 
> then I turn the front wheel backwards so it doesn’t stick out too much. 
> Right now I have no fenders or racks, but I’d like to get both, eventually, 
> but wonder if that will make turning the front wheel impossible. The other 
> issue is that the stays on the rack hit the bike at an odd angle, 
> scratching and/or marking up the frame. 
>
> I tried one of the bars that connect between the seat post and stem, but 
> then the back wheel extends really far beyond the car. 
>
> It’s the only sorrow I’ve had as a new owner, cause 

[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

[phil k]

Jim,

I knew you were mods of both groups, so I figured there must've been a good 
reason the FB was deleted. Thanks again for doing an excellent job 
moderating.

Phil

Arlington, VA

On Friday, June 22, 2018 at 12:09:31 PM UTC-4, Jim Edgar wrote:
>
> Justin - 
>
> I'm the admin of both groups.  
>
> I left the thread unmolested here because historically, the quality of 
> interaction within this group remains high. Even though I try to retain 
> high quality within both venues, there's a difference. Although this thread 
> has veered and swerved, it did not devolve into name-calling and enough 
> nastyness to warrant deletion. Hence it remains.
>
> In the thread you started on Facebook, there were three comments of a much 
> more personal nature. It wasn't going well, and I elected to delete the 
> thread.  
>
> As I wrote over there, maybe I jumped the gun.  But, it got directly 
> personal in those three posts while I happened to be on the FB, and two 
> people flagged those posts. So, you (and the members of that group) likely 
> did not see them before everything went away.  
>
> I don't really have time to continually police threads, so thought it 
> would be better to remove the entire post. 
>
> If I had a problem with the content or felt there was a deeper issue, I 
> would have contacted you directly. 
>
> regards, and thanks again to all who make up this community,
>
> - Jim
>
> On Thursday, June 21, 2018 at 9:26:03 PM UTC-7, Justin, Oakland wrote:
>>
>> Sadly the admin of the Facebook group deleted a similar thread. 
>>
>> -J
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: FS:Tallux stem

[Lum Gim Fong]

SOLD 

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[RBW] Re: Cheviot and Bike Rack

[phil k]

You might have to invest in a hitch or roof rack, depending on your year. A 
bit pricier, but well worth it IME


On Friday, June 22, 2018 at 2:09:28 PM UTC-4, Deborah Coffin wrote:
>
> I’m the happy owner of a new 50cm Cheviot, and am struggling to figure out 
> how to safely transport it on my Mini Cooper. I have what I think is the 
> only bike rack that works on my car—a Saris Bones. Apparently, unless it 
> comes built for a hitch, Mini’s can’t be fitted with anything else. 
>
> I’ve been mounting my bike between the top tune and behind the seat tube, 
> then I turn the front wheel backwards so it doesn’t stick out too much. 
> Right now I have no fenders or racks, but I’d like to get both, eventually, 
> but wonder if that will make turning the front wheel impossible. The other 
> issue is that the stays on the rack hit the bike at an odd angle, 
> scratching and/or marking up the frame. 
>
> I tried one of the bars that connect between the seat post and stem, but 
> then the back wheel extends really far beyond the car. 
>
> It’s the only sorrow I’ve had as a new owner, cause I’d like to take my 
> bike with me across the country this summer. I took off the rear wheel to 
> get it home when I bought it, but that’s sort of a pain. 
>
> Beyond removing the wheels, or mounting it as I have been—or getting a 
> different car—has anyone a better idea? Suggestions? Solutions? 

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[RBW] Re: Cheviot and Bike Rack

[REC (Roberta)]

Congratulations on your new ride!

You can take off the front wheel and then move your Saris Bones askew so 
that the bike is centered more on the car.  In my car, I can also take the 
front wheel off, rear seat down, and put the bike in on a diagonal, with 
the handlebars turned 90 degrees.  I bet this will work in your car.  To be 
honest with you, this is a pain but I feel safer with the bike in the car.  
A friend of mine rolls her bike into the back of her SUV, but it's probably 
taller than your car.

I have a small sedan and last year, I ditched the truck mount for a 1 1/4" 
hitch installed at U-Haul and bought a new rack.  It was so worth the 
money!  Easy on easy off and no worrying about the car paint!  I do have 
the ability to lock my bike to the rack and the rack to the hitch mount.  

Roberta


On Friday, June 22, 2018 at 2:09:28 PM UTC-4, Deborah Coffin wrote:

> I’m the happy owner of a new 50cm Cheviot, and am struggling to figure out 
> how to safely transport it on my Mini Cooper. I have what I think is the 
> only bike rack that works on my car—a Saris Bones. Apparently, unless it 
> comes built for a hitch, Mini’s can’t be fitted with anything else. 
>
> I’ve been mounting my bike between the top tune and behind the seat tube, 
> then I turn the front wheel backwards so it doesn’t stick out too much. 
> Right now I have no fenders or racks, but I’d like to get both, eventually, 
> but wonder if that will make turning the front wheel impossible. The other 
> issue is that the stays on the rack hit the bike at an odd angle, 
> scratching and/or marking up the frame. 
>
> I tried one of the bars that connect between the seat post and stem, but 
> then the back wheel extends really far beyond the car. 
>
> It’s the only sorrow I’ve had as a new owner, cause I’d like to take my 
> bike with me across the country this summer. I took off the rear wheel to 
> get it home when I bought it, but that’s sort of a pain. 
>
> Beyond removing the wheels, or mounting it as I have been—or getting a 
> different car—has anyone a better idea? Suggestions? Solutions? 

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[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

[Max S]

Fair is fair — separating infants from families is different than unaccompanied 
minors. I was pointing out that this is part of an issue whose scale is perhaps 
larger than many think of, and the plan for handling which may be lacking. 

BTW, you can donate to organizations that help refugees... a “google” away. 
Having been, as a minor, a refugee myself some years ago, I’m somewhat 
interested in this situation and appreciate people’s willingness to help 
others. 

- Max in A2 

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[RBW] Re: Cutting down Grip area of Albatross bars?

[David Carner]

I lopped off 2 cm on my aluminum Albatross bars, encountered no problem with 
bar-end shifters.
David

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[RBW] Riv website: Newish things???

[Michael Morrissey]

I compulsively check Rivendell's website and can't help but notice today's 
"newish things" are... out of stock bandannas! Why? Please could you put the 
newest coolest stuff on the front page or create a "recent arrivals" section 
like most record stores have? This seems weak for the coolest bike company in 
the world. 

M

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[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

[Larry Charlton]

This is a difficult subject because too many people approach the subject 
emotionally and attempts to be logical/unemotional get one labeled, 
targeted, and rejected.  The reality is that there are multiple mitigating 
facts:

1.  Mexico is a signatory to multiple international asylum and refugee 
agreements.  As such, citizens of Honduras, Costa Rica, El Salvador and 
Guatemala are obligated to request asylum in the "first safe country" they 
reach -- Mexico.  To then travel another 1,000 miles indicates they aren't 
seeking asylum but rather are seeking better financial or living 
conditions, which is not a legally valid reason for asylum.

2.  Most "families" being processed did not present themselves at a US 
consulate and request asylum but rather crossed illegally and were caught. 
 They've been coached to request asylum under such circumstances.  The fact 
that an asylum request was not made from the onset indicates asylum was not 
the initial reason to enter illegally.

3.  Federal law demands that aslyees be processed and that their request be 
properly researched and adjudicated.  Federal court agreements also demand 
that children cannot be detained for greater than 20 days.  Adjudication 
rarely is possible within 20 days.  This presents a conundrum -- separate 
children from adults awaiting adjudication or release the parents and 
children under the promise they will show up for their court dates.  In 
2016, between 25% and 41% (depending on definitions and sources) failed to 
do so.  In essence, they were released and simply drifted into the US, 
hoping never to be caught again.  I think the US has every right as 
a sovereign nation to determine who may or may not enter; to eliminate that 
possibility by letting those not eligible for asylum flee is an affront to 
US citizens.

4.  Today, the executive branch faces two horrendous choices --  release 
(which obviously is a terrible option) or separate the families (which IMHO 
is also terrible but slightly less so.)  My preference is that the Flores 
agreement be put aside by the courts and that families stay together until 
their court cases have been heard.  Absent that, and based on #'s 1 and 2 
above, I think that all should be deported.  They can ask for asylum in 
Mexico which was their legal requirement from the onset, perhaps properly 
present themselves as a US consulate in Mexico and have their cases 
adjudicated there with the possibility asylum could be granted, or return 
home.

I started this saying that being logical begets abuse.  I expect it now. 
 But I try to approach all contentious subjects from a legal and logical 
perspective and not let emotions get in the way of a decision.  This is 
also why my first marriage ended.  LOL

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[RBW] Re: Other annoying threads

[Kieran J]

Same here. Thanks Laing!

KJ


On Friday, June 22, 2018 at 12:23:12 PM UTC-7, phil k wrote:
>
> A new day, a new thing learned again for me. 
>
> On Friday, June 22, 2018 at 2:42:20 PM UTC-4, lconley wrote:
>>
>> Every time you change the battery in an electric car, you have a 
>> relatively large backward step (increase in carbon footprint). Batteries 
>> are expensive because they consume a lot of energy to manufacture. The 
>> longer that battery lasts, the smaller your carbon footprint so take care 
>> of your battery if you want to minimize your carbon footprint. As 
>> technology marches forward, especially battery technology, the smaller the 
>> overall carbon footprint for electric cars will get. Gasoline engines have 
>> been continually developed for the last 120+ years and have a lot of 
>> infrastructure in place (gas stations etc.). Electric car technology kind 
>> of ground to a halt ~100 years ago and only in the last 20 or so has really 
>> picked back up. The electric cars 20 years from now will be way, way better 
>> than the ones they have now. The current Chevy Bolt (238 mile range) 
>> already makes the current Nissan Leaf (151 mile range) look stone age by 
>> comparison. The technology gets better every year. Once there are more 
>> recharging stations, it will be easier to travel intercity by electric car. 
>> One interesting aspect of commuting by electric car and charging at night 
>> is that the extra load on the electric grid at night usually helps the 
>> electric grid be more efficient. Generators are more efficient when fully 
>> loaded than partially loaded.
>>
>> The other day when I parked in the low emitting and fuel efficient 
>> parking spot at work, there was a guy parking a Harley in another one of 
>> the spots. Being the annoying engineer that I am, I had to point out that 
>> he did not qualify, he was fuel efficient, but not low emitting. He 
>> predictably got very annoyed and claimed that fuel efficient and low 
>> emitting were the same thing, but they are not, at least not in Florida. 
>> Motorcycles do not have catalytic converters or evaporative emissions 
>> controls in Florida, not sure about other states, especially California. 
>> Motorcycles and scooters pollute all day and all night even when they are 
>> not running by letting their hydrocarbon fuels evaporate directly into the 
>> air. I read somewhere that a motorcycle puts out ten times the pollution of 
>> a modern car. Due to the small number of motorcycles and scooters, they 
>> are not a big part of the overall air pollution, so they have almost no 
>> regulations. So, while you may feel holier than thou sitting beside the SUV 
>> on your Vespa - you do have a smaller carbon foot print, there is a good 
>> chance that you are polluting the air more.
>>
>> Bicycles put all kind of cars and motorcycles and scooters to shame, but 
>> unless you exhale through a carbon capture device, your carbon foot print 
>> is still not zero.
>>
>> Geeking out on technology again.
>>
>> Owning ten Rivs is probably not all that green.
>>
>> Laing
>>
>>
>> On Friday, June 22, 2018 at 12:55:22 PM UTC-4, masmojo wrote:
>>
>>> I read somewhere that the Prius is now the #1 car for owner retention. 
>>> At the time I read that the average Prius owner was going in 11 years & 
>>> counting!
>>> Now, I  realize that Prius are technically hybirds, but the fact is that 
>>> mechanically there's  far less involved with an electric car then a petrol 
>>> powered car or even a hybrid. So, long term electric car owners should be 
>>> able to get massive numbers of miles out of their vehicles and aside from 
>>> the eventual battery change, service should be cheaper as well.
>>> Point being, that while you might make a case for a negative 
>>> environmental impact initially, over the long hual electric should overcome 
>>> it's gasoline brother and surpass it  by a healthy margin.
>>> My major worry with electric cars is fire issues & water encroachment 
>>> over time or in flood situations.
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

[Joe Bernard]

By all means, end wall of text BS with LOL. People love that. 

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[RBW] Re: Riv website: Newish things???

[Tom Wyland]

When I find an issue with a site I typically just drop an email (see 
contact us at bottom of page) to them. Dave or someone gets back with a 
thanks in a day or two, tops.

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[RBW] Disaster Averted

[Michael Hechmer]

I have been working too hard and so late this morning Saluki and I went out 
for a ride on one of my favorite routes, out and back from Fairfax Vt 
through  the back roads, north toward St Albans.  Its a pretty route with 
very little traffic, the weather was perfect for riding, the roads, both 
paved & dirt are in good condition.  It rolls uphill 9 or 10 miles to the 
highest point between our home & St Albans, about 900 feet above us.  That 
makes the return trip easy and exhilarating.  I rolled along between 20 & 
35 mph, except for the occasional uphill stretch that was either steep 
enough or long enough to require some real effort. Fortunately that’s where 
I was, going uphill and thinking I would stop at Minor’s for a roast beef 
sandwich and a Switchback when I heard the loud hiss.  I barely had time to 
curse before I realized it was coming from the front tire and I needed to 
get a foot down immediately.

I got the bike off the road onto some grass, dug out the spare & levers, 
and turned the bike over.  I didn’t  even touch the QR before I saw the 
gash in the tire, a nearly new Pari-Moto.  It was a 2 1/2 mile walk back to 
the car, while I wished there was some traffic, and a lift.

In 40+ years of riding I have had only 3 front tire failures and all three 
were going uphill, which is probably why I can still write emails!
Michael

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[RBW] Re: Cheviot and Bike Rack

[Deborah Coffin]

Thanks Minh and Joe. Mine’s a 2015 4-door Cooper S. Thanks to Joe, I have a 
good lead on an (expensive) retrofit that will accept a Yakima Single Speed 
1-bike hitch-mount, which I hope won’t stick out too far...

The Mini of Marin dealers told me there was nothing to be done, but the 
Mini-Mania folks tell me it’ll take no more than 2 (expensive) hours of labor 
to install theirs. I’m guessing about $800 to $1000 is what it’ll cost.

Bay Bridge Motors in Oakland apparently does the retrofit, but they’re out to 
lunch, so I can’t chat with them yet to get a sense of the installation cost. 
It’s supposed to take 1.5 to 2 hours.

Rack and Road in San Rafael has no familiarity with the Mini-Mania hitch, so 
they say that they’d have to carve $500 to install it (liability), if I brought 
it in to them.

So annoying that all Minis don’t come equipped with hitches and roof rack 
capability, cause it’s no big deal ($250 extra) if you order one equipped that 
way. I had no idea when I bought it. Aaargh.

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[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

[Cyclofiend Jim]

ustin - 

I'm the admin of both groups.  

I left the thread unmolested here because historically, the quality of 
interaction within this group remains high. Even though I try to retain 
high quality within both venues, there's a difference. Although this thread 
has veered and swerved, it did not devolve into name-calling and enough 
nastyness to warrant deletion. Hence it remains.

In the thread you started on Facebook, there were three comments of a much 
more personal nature. It wasn't going well, and I elected to delete the 
thread.  

As I wrote over there, maybe I jumped the gun.  But, it got directly 
personal in those three posts while I happened to be on the FB, and two 
people flagged those posts. So, you (and the members of that group) likely 
did not see them before everything went away.  

I don't really have time to continually police threads, so thought it would 
be better to remove the entire post. 

If I had a problem with the content or felt there was a deeper issue, I 
would have contacted you directly. 

regards, and thanks again to all who make up this community,

- Jim


On Thursday, June 21, 2018 at 9:26:03 PM UTC-7, Justin, Oakland wrote:
>
> Sadly the admin of the Facebook group deleted a similar thread.
>
> -J
>

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[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Justin - 

I'm the admin of both groups.  

I left the thread unmolested here because historically, the quality of 
interaction within this group remains high. Even though I try to retain 
high quality within both venues, there's a difference. Although this thread 
has veered and swerved, it did not devolve into name-calling and enough 
nastyness to warrant deletion. Hence it remains.

In the thread you started on Facebook, there were three comments of a much 
more personal nature. It wasn't going well, and I elected to delete the 
thread.  

As I wrote over there, maybe I jumped the gun.  But, it got directly 
personal in those three posts while I happened to be on the FB, and two 
people flagged those posts. So, you (and the members of that group) likely 
did not see them before everything went away.  

I don't really have time to continually police threads, so thought it would 
be better to remove the entire post. 

If I had a problem with the content or felt there was a deeper issue, I 
would have contacted you directly. 

regards, and thanks again to all who make up this community,

- Jim


On Thursday, June 21, 2018 at 9:26:03 PM UTC-7, Justin, Oakland wrote:
>
> Sadly the admin of the Facebook group deleted a similar thread. 
>
> -J
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

[Patrick Moore]

*I started this saying that being logical begets abuse.  I expect it now.
But I try to approach all contentious subjects from a legal and logical
perspective and not let emotions get in the way of a decision.  This is
also why my first marriage ended.  LOL*

Thanks for trying to set out the question in a dispassionate fashion. I,
personally, don't object to either side of the debate, but to the excessive
ratio of blind spleen and fury to thoughtful analysis.

Patrick Moore [who voted against both major parties by not voting at all,
and who would have voted for Sanders (at least I agree with a bit of what
he proposed, hardly all) except then I'd have had to register Democrat, and
who follows Chesterton in disliking socialists but hating the capitalist
establishment. Just for the record.]

On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 2:19 PM, Larry Charlton 
wrote:

> This is a difficult subject because too many people approach the subject
> emotionally and attempts to be logical/unemotional get one labeled,
> targeted, and rejected.  The reality is that there are multiple mitigating
> facts:
>
> 1.  Mexico is a signatory to multiple international asylum and refugee
> agreements.  As such, citizens of Honduras, Costa Rica, El Salvador and
> Guatemala are obligated to request asylum in the "first safe country" they
> reach -- Mexico.  To then travel another 1,000 miles indicates they aren't
> seeking asylum but rather are seeking better financial or living
> conditions, which is not a legally valid reason for asylum.
>
> 2.  Most "families" being processed did not present themselves at a US
> consulate and request asylum but rather crossed illegally and were caught.
> They've been coached to request asylum under such circumstances.  The fact
> that an asylum request was not made from the onset indicates asylum was not
> the initial reason to enter illegally.
>
> 3.  Federal law demands that aslyees be processed and that their request
> be properly researched and adjudicated.  Federal court agreements also
> demand that children cannot be detained for greater than 20 days.
> Adjudication rarely is possible within 20 days.  This presents a conundrum
> -- separate children from adults awaiting adjudication or release the
> parents and children under the promise they will show up for their court
> dates.  In 2016, between 25% and 41% (depending on definitions and sources)
> failed to do so.  In essence, they were released and simply drifted into
> the US, hoping never to be caught again.  I think the US has every right as
> a sovereign nation to determine who may or may not enter; to eliminate that
> possibility by letting those not eligible for asylum flee is an affront to
> US citizens.
>
> 4.  Today, the executive branch faces two horrendous choices --  release
> (which obviously is a terrible option) or separate the families (which IMHO
> is also terrible but slightly less so.)  My preference is that the Flores
> agreement be put aside by the courts and that families stay together until
> their court cases have been heard.  Absent that, and based on #'s 1 and 2
> above, I think that all should be deported.  They can ask for asylum in
> Mexico which was their legal requirement from the onset, perhaps properly
> present themselves as a US consulate in Mexico and have their cases
> adjudicated there with the possibility asylum could be granted, or return
> home.
>
> I started this saying that being logical begets abuse.  I expect it now.
> But I try to approach all contentious subjects from a legal and logical
> perspective and not let emotions get in the way of a decision.  This is
> also why my first marriage ended.  LOL
>
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[RBW] Nice bosque ride

[Deacon Patrick]

Patrick, beautiful aplineglow on the mesa! All rides are epic, we just have to 
widen our scope to see it. Grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

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Re: [RBW] Nice bosque ride

[Patrick Moore]

It's just that my epics are small epics!

On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 2:52 PM, Deacon Patrick  wrote:

> Patrick, beautiful aplineglow on the mesa! All rides are epic, we just
> have to widen our scope to see it. Grin.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
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Re: [RBW] Nice bosque ride

[Deacon Patrick]

What do you think makes up bigger epics? Wee epics are the building blocks of 
epic epics. Grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

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Re: [RBW] Disaster Averted

[Patrick Moore]

I'm glad you caught it before it caught you! The one front blowout that
really scared me was back 28 years ago when I foolishly rode 19 mm
clinchers at 110+ psi. Just about to dive into a very fast 90* corner at
the bottom of a steep, long hill -- bam .. hsss! A very short hsss because
the tire volume was so small. If the blowout had happened a split second
later, I'd have bought it.

IIRC, I had to walk some 2 miles home, too, since I managed to flub the 2
or 3 CO2 cartridges I carried (the first and last time I carried these
instead of a pump).

On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 2:28 PM, Michael Hechmer  wrote:

> I have been working too hard and so late this morning Saluki and I went
> out for a ride on one of my favorite routes, out and back from Fairfax Vt
> through  the back roads, north toward St Albans.  Its a pretty route with
> very little traffic, the weather was perfect for riding, the roads, both
> paved & dirt are in good condition.  It rolls uphill 9 or 10 miles to the
> highest point between our home & St Albans, about 900 feet above us.  That
> makes the return trip easy and exhilarating.  I rolled along between 20 &
> 35 mph, except for the occasional uphill stretch that was either steep
> enough or long enough to require some real effort. Fortunately that’s where
> I was, going uphill and thinking I would stop at Minor’s for a roast beef
> sandwich and a Switchback when I heard the loud hiss.  I barely had time to
> curse before I realized it was coming from the front tire and I needed to
> get a foot down immediately.
>
> I got the bike off the road onto some grass, dug out the spare & levers,
> and turned the bike over.  I didn’t  even touch the QR before I saw the
> gash in the tire, a nearly new Pari-Moto.  It was a 2 1/2 mile walk back to
> the car, while I wished there was some traffic, and a lift.
>
> In 40+ years of riding I have had only 3 front tire failures and all three
> were going uphill, which is probably why I can still write emails!
> Michael
>
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[RBW] Re: Anyone bought a 47 or 50 MIT Atlantis?

[Lester Lammers]

As long as you are OK with the stand over I'd say go for the 50cm. Riv 
seems to going a bit smaller on frame size recommendations these days.The 
SO on the geo chart for this frame is with the max tire size.  My PBH is 
82.5 is and they suggested a 50cm. I was at the top of the range for the 50 
and the bottom for the 53. I went with the 53. I'll have 1" between the bar 
and my jewels. I'm OK with that. 

On Thursday, June 21, 2018 at 9:37:10 PM UTC-4, ed wrote:

> Hi,
> Anyone who bought a 47 or 50 MIT Atlantis?
> I would like to hear your fit experience with the new geometry.
>
> With my height at 5' 5" and pbh of 79-80 so I am between size 47 and 50 of 
> the new MIT Atlantis
>
> I currently ride the following;
> a.  48 Hunqapillar (Ahearn Map handlebar with 12cm stem) - fits me 
> perfectly
> b.  51 Atlantis (Albatross bars with 13cm stem) - feels cramped and I 
> often experience TCO
> c.  50 Cheviot (Albatross bars with 13cm stem) - fits me perfectly
>
> Riv suggest that I get size 47 MIT Atlantis but I am worried that I will 
> still feel cramped since the top tube is only 0.5cm longer than my current 
> 51 Atlantis.
> *With the 50 MIT Atlantis, the top tube will be 2cm longer than my current 
> 51 Atlantis (old) not to mention that the front center will be the same 
> with my 48 Hunqapillar where I am not having TCO experience.*
>
> Thank you guys for any advise.
>
> PS I currently use 165mm cranks on all my Riv bikes but plan to use 152 
> Sugino cranks with the MIT Atlantis.  This should help increase my seat 
> height.
>
>
>

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[RBW] FS: Many Stems, Bars, Bags

[adam leibow]

Hello! 

I might have done this before, but here is a link to my "selling stuff" 
instagram: instagram.com/adom_sale

Posting again since I just added my back stock of somewhat-Rivvy to 
very-Rivvy stems, bars, and bags. And I always am putting random stuff 
there for sale at pretty good prices. Feel free to make offers. I am 
located in San Francisco and shipping costs are listed with each item, 
respective of size and whatnot. 

Thanks all! 
Adam

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Re: [RBW] dogs on Rivs

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Wally and Brad.

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[RBW] Re: Cheviot and Bike Rack

[Deborah Coffin]

Brian— I did the same thing once, at a hotel, late at night after a long drive. 
I had two bikes on top, and the prized Bianchi of my boyfriend at the time—this 
very trip finished us off—caught the parking area overhang. Somehow, maybe I 
wasn’t going fast, I think nothing major happened, but it did put put me off of 
roof racks, pretty much. 

I think I’ll try Roberta’s suggestion for now, to use the Bones off-center to 
see if that allows me to center the bike on the car, but long term, I think 
there’s an expensive Mini retrofit in my future, now that I know the how, what, 
and where of it. The guys at Bay Bridge in Oakland charge $130/hr, btw, so it 
should be less that $260 to install—or $900 when all is said and done. Maybe 
I’ll trade my car;)

Thanks everyone. 

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[RBW] Re: Other annoying threads

[Brewster Fong]

On Friday, June 22, 2018 at 11:42:20 AM UTC-7, lconley wrote:
>
> Every time you change the battery in an electric car, you have a 
> relatively large backward step (increase in carbon footprint). Batteries 
> are expensive because they consume a lot of energy to manufacture. The 
> longer that battery lasts, the smaller your carbon footprint so take care 
> of your battery if you want to minimize your carbon footprint. As 
> technology marches forward, especially battery technology, the smaller the 
> overall carbon footprint for electric cars will get. Gasoline engines have 
> been continually developed for the last 120+ years and have a lot of 
> infrastructure in place (gas stations etc.). Electric car technology kind 
> of ground to a halt ~100 years ago and only in the last 20 or so has really 
> picked back up. The electric cars 20 years from now will be way, way better 
> than the ones they have now. The current Chevy Bolt (238 mile range) 
> already makes the current Nissan Leaf (151 mile range) look stone age by 
> comparison. The technology gets better every year. Once there are more 
> recharging stations, it will be easier to travel intercity by electric car. 
>

My Tesla-phile friends rave about Tesla and its 300+ mile range.  They also 
rave about Tesla's supercharging network and how you can now drive a Tesla 
across the country. They blast existing car companies too. But I remind 
them that car companies have established networks of dealerships and can 
easily put in charging stations on their property similar to what Tesla has 
done.  So the question is how long will it take?  All the major car 
companies will be rolling out their EVs in the next 5 years. The high end 
will be very crowded and it will only trickle down to the masses. These are 
interesting times.

In the meantime, I'm happy to drive my 2014 Prius with its almost 20 year 
old hybrid technology using Nimh batteries instead of the latest lthion-ion 
batteries found in today's EVs.  Or, I just jump into my 1990 BMW 535i with 
its "big six" gas hog eating engine and enjoy the 5 speed manual 
transmission!  

Bike content - fortunately, I commute to work on a bicycle! 
 

> One interesting aspect of commuting by electric car and charging at night 
> is that the extra load on the electric grid at night usually helps the 
> electric grid be more efficient. Generators are more efficient when fully 
> loaded than partially loaded.
>
> The other day when I parked in the low emitting and fuel efficient parking 
> spot at work, there was a guy parking a Harley in another one of the spots. 
> Being the annoying engineer that I am, I had to point out that he did not 
> qualify, he was fuel efficient, but not low emitting. He predictably got 
> very annoyed and claimed that fuel efficient and low emitting were the same 
> thing, but they are not, at least not in Florida. Motorcycles do not have 
> catalytic converters or evaporative emissions controls in Florida, not sure 
> about other states, especially California. Motorcycles and scooters pollute 
> all day and all night even when they are not running by letting their 
> hydrocarbon fuels evaporate directly into the air. I read somewhere that a 
> motorcycle puts out ten times the pollution of a modern car. Due to the 
> small number of motorcycles and scooters, they are not a big part of the 
> overall air pollution, so they have almost no regulations. So, while you 
> may feel holier than thou sitting beside the SUV on your Vespa - you do 
> have a smaller carbon foot print, there is a good chance that you are 
> polluting the air more.
>

In San Francisco, e-bikes, e-scooters (Scoot!) and my favorite 
e-skateboards are everywhere!  I especially like climbing up our hills and 
seeing guys fly up the hill on their e-skateboards - quiet, fast and they 
look very relax! 

>
> Bicycles put all kind of cars and motorcycles and scooters to shame, but 
> unless you exhale through a carbon capture device, your carbon foot print 
> is still not zero.
>

Whatever, you're going to have a "carbon foot print" sitting at home 
watching the game on the couch too. So that's a given! 

>
> Geeking out on technology again.
>
> Owning ten Rivs is probably not all that green.
>

I don't know any Rivs, but I do have 2 steel frame bikes and 2 carbon bikes 
- ah!

Good Luck!  

>
> Laing
>
>
> On Friday, June 22, 2018 at 12:55:22 PM UTC-4, masmojo wrote:
>
>> I read somewhere that the Prius is now the #1 car for owner retention. At 
>> the time I read that the average Prius owner was going in 11 years & 
>> counting!
>> Now, I  realize that Prius are technically hybirds, but the fact is that 
>> mechanically there's  far less involved with an electric car then a petrol 
>> powered car or even a hybrid. So, long term electric car owners should be 
>> able to get massive numbers of miles out of their vehicles and aside from 
>> the eventual battery change, service should be cheaper as well.
>> Point b

[RBW] Re: Other annoying threads

[Bill Lindsay]

Laing

Tell them about second life initiatives. I’m on my phone so I can’t do a long 
post on it, but Nissan has committed to build solar standalone streetlights 
that employ used Leaf batteries as storage. 

Bill

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Re: [RBW] Nice bosque ride

[Patrick Moore]

This sort of ride fits my schedule, interest, fitness, and habits; it also
fits the surrounding landscape, where you'd be hard pressed to ride more
than 20 miles without backtracking or riding long distance on pavement --
one can by not too annoying backtracking cobble together a 40-something
mile dirt ride, but that's just 2 out and backs back to back, so very
limited choice of routes.

Today's ride required backtracking, but there was enough variety to keep it
interesting.

On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 3:00 PM, Deacon Patrick  wrote:

> What do you think makes up bigger epics? Wee epics are the building blocks
> of epic epics. Grin.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
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[RBW] Re: Nice bosque ride

[ascpgh]

I could tolerate some dust here. All of ours has washed away. 2-3" per hour 
storms night before last. Landscape in the yard flourishing, will have to 
cut hay, I mean mow the yard sometime when it dries enough. 

Plenty of firsthand experience with bow waves from the front wheel these 
last couple of commutes. Speed of entry into standing water defines the 
energy of the emitted furl, depth of pool defines the angle- deeper pool, 
steeper angle of the wave, narrower gap for feet between the produced 
plumes.

Andy "What's a cubit" Cheatham
Pittsburgh 

On Friday, June 22, 2018 at 4:26:04 PM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Not at all epic, nor grand, nor poetic, but just a quotidien 18 mile dirt 
> ride (well, about 2-3 miles of pavement) on our now-pretty-sandy acequia 
> roads and trails. I discovered new connections between old routes, which 
> makes certain rides longer on dirt with less pavement hopping.
>
> Temp about 100*F, humidity at a very reasonable 7%, winds mildly SW at 10 
> mph or so.
>
> Matthews, 18 psi f and rear. If I rode only these paths and dirt roads, 
> I'd very seriously consider a fat bike, or at least a plus bike, for tires 
> 80 mm wide and 15 psi or less. At 61 mm and 18, I do alright in the sand if 
> I gear down (low on the big ring -- 42 -- is about 44", which lets me dig 
> through 3" sand; absolute bottom on the 28X28 is 29.5").
>
> The acequias are full, but full of water stored from last year. Though 
> we've had 2 rainy days in the last 4-5 weeks (about 1/2" each time in my 
> area), we're in a pretty severe drought, and God willing will get a nice, 
> wet, and long monsoon; at least some predictions lean that way. "Long and 
> wet" means most of the annual 9" city-wide average; 5" to 14" at western 
> and eastern extremes, respectively.
>
> One aspect of this sort of riding, I must admit, is that I suffer less 
> from that very strangely persistent scruple of going fast; I've worn it 
> down, but on pavement, it's still there, more so than on dirt.
>
> Anyway, dirt, ducks, ditches, and a couple of horses' asses.
>
> Riv content: I wore my gofast Rivendell hat.
>
>
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[RBW] Re: Other annoying threads

[Joe Bernard]

I've seen that 535. It's sweet!

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[RBW] Re: Cheviot and Bike Rack

[Joe Bernard]

It's a lot of cash, but at the end of the process you'll have a sweet Mini 
safely hauling (and not scratching your Cheviot. I suspect you could get it in 
that car with back seats down and front wheel off, but yeah, fenders and racks 
will getcha. I have a Chev and I know all about that malady ;-)

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[RBW] Re: Riv website: Newish things???

[DarinM]

I noticed that, too. As someone with no knowledge of operating an internet 
commerce site, my guess was that this could be due to how the site operates 
when updating items and not due to someone intentionally adding those items 
to the newish things list. Like maybe they are back in stock at Riv HQ, and 
the links have been added to the site, but the stocking details haven't 
been updated yet, and then are somehow auto-added to that list, by some 
non-human method.

I don't really know though, that's just my guess. I bet they are officially 
in stock with in a few days.
Darin

On Friday, June 22, 2018 at 1:08:55 PM UTC-7, Michael Morrissey wrote:
>
> I compulsively check Rivendell's website and can't help but notice today's 
> "newish things" are... out of stock bandannas! Why? Please could you put 
> the newest coolest stuff on the front page or create a "recent arrivals" 
> section like most record stores have? This seems weak for the coolest bike 
> company in the world. 
>
> M
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Riv website: Newish things???

[Eric Floden]

semi-related: my hiking (and more) store MEC, no longer carries bandanas.
What kind of world do we live in?  (Oh wait, that was yesterday's topic..)

EricF
Kitsalino BC

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[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

[Max S]

Larry, thanks for the explanation of the legal constraints. The legal process 
for seeking asylum you described matches the one my family followed (albeit 
different countries) some decades ago and one I’m familiar with. (There was an 
NPR segment today that featured an interview with the lawyer representing 
Flores in the original (Jenny) Flores case. Also illuminating.) 

- Max in A2

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[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

[Larry Charlton]

Max, Thanks for first-hand acknowledgement that mine was not a "wall of BS 
text."

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Re: [RBW] Re: dogs on Rivs

[Patrick Moore]

Kiley mentioned that there are many carrying products from Europe. Does
anyone know anyone makes a pet carrier that attaches to the rear rack like
a pannier, and that will take a 20 lb dog? I'd need something that is quick
on and off.

Thanks.

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[RBW] Re: Cheviot and Bike Rack

[Benz, Sunnyvale, CA]

If you have not ruled out roof racks, have you considered a "suction cup" 
rack? If you're down with spending close to $1k, you may want to consider 
this somewhat rare but quite flexible solution. Looking at pictures, it 
appears to fit your needs. The neat thing about this kind of roof rack is 
that you can suction-cup the devices pretty much anywhere where there is 
flattish sheetmetal. I've seen people install it on Ferraris and Porsches 
in the back, but I would think maybe installing it on the hood on the 
passenger side may be OK (should verify with vehicle code/regulations).

The biggest challenge you'll have is probably going to be racking up a 
Cheviot with fenders, especially if the front fender is low enough to do 
the most good. Racks that grab the front fork dropouts usually angle the 
bike in such a way that the front fender may dig into the roof. The fenders 
also cause a bit of problem even if you want to carry the bike inside the 
car, as the front fender will not allow the handlebar to turn, which means 
you'll need a car big enough to carry a complete bike (usually wagons, 
hatchbacks or vans).

Good luck!


On Friday, June 22, 2018 at 2:23:49 PM UTC-7, Deborah Coffin wrote:
>
> Brian— I did the same thing once, at a hotel, late at night after a long 
> drive. I had two bikes on top, and the prized Bianchi of my boyfriend at 
> the time—this very trip finished us off—caught the parking area overhang. 
> Somehow, maybe I wasn’t going fast, I think nothing major happened, but it 
> did put put me off of roof racks, pretty much. 
>
> I think I’ll try Roberta’s suggestion for now, to use the Bones off-center 
> to see if that allows me to center the bike on the car, but long term, I 
> think there’s an expensive Mini retrofit in my future, now that I know the 
> how, what, and where of it. The guys at Bay Bridge in Oakland charge 
> $130/hr, btw, so it should be less that $260 to install—or $900 when all is 
> said and done. Maybe I’ll trade my car;) 
>
> Thanks everyone. 

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Re: [RBW] Cheviot and Bike Rack

[Dan McNamara]

You might take a look at this hitch adapter:

http://www.hitchsource.com/torklift-ecohitch-hidden-mini-cooper-hardtop-door-2015-14-in-receiver-p-36883.html

It is a bolt in so there should not need to be any fabrication. It is a
little strange having the hitch right above the exhausts but if there is
available space then why not.

Here is an over-dramatic video of the install: https://vimeo.com/145407793

A body shop could do this install pretty easily.

Dan



On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 11:09 AM Deborah Coffin 
wrote:

> I’m the happy owner of a new 50cm Cheviot, and am struggling to figure out
> how to safely transport it on my Mini Cooper. I have what I think is the
> only bike rack that works on my car—a Saris Bones. Apparently, unless it
> comes built for a hitch, Mini’s can’t be fitted with anything else.
>
> I’ve been mounting my bike between the top tune and behind the seat tube,
> then I turn the front wheel backwards so it doesn’t stick out too much.
> Right now I have no fenders or racks, but I’d like to get both, eventually,
> but wonder if that will make turning the front wheel impossible. The other
> issue is that the stays on the rack hit the bike at an odd angle,
> scratching and/or marking up the frame.
>
> I tried one of the bars that connect between the seat post and stem, but
> then the back wheel extends really far beyond the car.
>
> It’s the only sorrow I’ve had as a new owner, cause I’d like to take my
> bike with me across the country this summer. I took off the rear wheel to
> get it home when I bought it, but that’s sort of a pain.
>
> Beyond removing the wheels, or mounting it as I have been—or getting a
> different car—has anyone a better idea? Suggestions? Solutions?
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Riv website: Newish things???

[Ian A]

Nostalgia's not what it used to be.

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Re: [RBW] J.P. Weigle For Sale

[Don Compton]

CONGRATULATIONS! A Weigle is my dream bike. This one was a little big for 
me.

On Friday, June 22, 2018 at 9:13:01 AM UTC-7, John G. wrote:
>
> Not to gloat, but I am delighted to have snagged this. Perfect size for 
> me. I’ll need to move a bike on, but this should be a great brevet bike.

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[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

[Joe Bernard]

"Absent that, and based on #'s 1 and 2 above, I think that all should be 
deported."

Elle Oh Elle, bro

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[RBW] Re: Ever tossed a tire because you couldn't find the culprit?

[Ray Varella]

Another way to check is to remove the tire, turn it inside out and fold it back 
on itself. Oftentimes there is a little discoloration in the casing where the 
thorn/wire/shard etc...is. 

Having the tire folded back on itself often raises the tip of the offending 
bits. 

I’ve never ever felt defeat, there’s no frickin way a thorn will get the best 
of me. I’ll waste triple the value of the tire just in tenacity to find it. 
I encourage the same behavior from my dogs when they figure out mice are 
vermin. 

Find the thorn, you will feel a great sense of accomplishment that will help 
you in other areas of your life ;)


Ray

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[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

[Nick Ybarra]

Just a few quick responses:

1). Do you have cites for the second sentence?  It does not appear to be 
true: 
 
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/immigration/sd-me-safe-country-20180518-story.html

The article gives a lot of pretty good reasons people might want to avoid 
seeking asylum in Mexico.  But, more to the point, it also notes that they 
are not required to do so if they get there first.  The only country we 
have a "first safe country" agreement with is Canada.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada–United_States_Safe_Third_Country_Agreement

2) See above

3) This is a defensible position, although the last clause ("to eliminate 
that possibility by letting those not eligible for asylum flee is an 
affront to US citizens.") seems to be an exaggeration/misrepresentation. 
 The possibility is not eliminated, and there have been other solutions put 
forward and attempted besides detention centers.  For example, this very 
reasonable and successful-sounding case management program discontinued 
last year by the current administration:  
https://www.theatlantic.com/news/archive/2017/06/ice-shuts-down-program-for-asylum-seekers/529887/
 


4)This isn't really fact so much as your opinion, with which I heartily 
disagree.  Again, the false claim about what asylum-seekers are required to 
do.

I hope none of that came off as abusive. 

On Friday, June 22, 2018 at 3:19:04 PM UTC-5, Larry Charlton wrote:
>
> This is a difficult subject because too many people approach the subject 
> emotionally and attempts to be logical/unemotional get one labeled, 
> targeted, and rejected.  The reality is that there are multiple mitigating 
> facts:
>
> 1.  Mexico is a signatory to multiple international asylum and refugee 
> agreements.  As such, citizens of Honduras, Costa Rica, El Salvador and 
> Guatemala are obligated to request asylum in the "first safe country" they 
> reach -- Mexico.  To then travel another 1,000 miles indicates they aren't 
> seeking asylum but rather are seeking better financial or living 
> conditions, which is not a legally valid reason for asylum.
>
> 2.  Most "families" being processed did not present themselves at a US 
> consulate and request asylum but rather crossed illegally and were caught. 
>  They've been coached to request asylum under such circumstances.  The fact 
> that an asylum request was not made from the onset indicates asylum was not 
> the initial reason to enter illegally.
>
> 3.  Federal law demands that aslyees be processed and that their request 
> be properly researched and adjudicated.  Federal court agreements also 
> demand that children cannot be detained for greater than 20 days. 
>  Adjudication rarely is possible within 20 days.  This presents a conundrum 
> -- separate children from adults awaiting adjudication or release the 
> parents and children under the promise they will show up for their court 
> dates.  In 2016, between 25% and 41% (depending on definitions and sources) 
> failed to do so.  In essence, they were released and simply drifted into 
> the US, hoping never to be caught again.  I think the US has every right as 
> a sovereign nation to determine who may or may not enter; to eliminate that 
> possibility by letting those not eligible for asylum flee is an affront to 
> US citizens.
>
> 4.  Today, the executive branch faces two horrendous choices --  release 
> (which obviously is a terrible option) or separate the families (which IMHO 
> is also terrible but slightly less so.)  My preference is that the Flores 
> agreement be put aside by the courts and that families stay together until 
> their court cases have been heard.  Absent that, and based on #'s 1 and 2 
> above, I think that all should be deported.  They can ask for asylum in 
> Mexico which was their legal requirement from the onset, perhaps properly 
> present themselves as a US consulate in Mexico and have their cases 
> adjudicated there with the possibility asylum could be granted, or return 
> home.
>
> I started this saying that being logical begets abuse.  I expect it now. 
>  But I try to approach all contentious subjects from a legal and logical 
> perspective and not let emotions get in the way of a decision.  This is 
> also why my first marriage ended.  LOL
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: dogs on Rivs

[Kiley Demond]

Here's your 
guy: https://bicyclehabitat.wordpress.com/2012/01/17/riding-with-your-dog/


On Friday, June 22, 2018 at 6:29:16 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Kiley mentioned that there are many carrying products from Europe. Does 
> anyone know anyone makes a pet carrier that attaches to the rear rack like 
> a pannier, and that will take a 20 lb dog? I'd need something that is quick 
> on and off.
>
> Thanks.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: dogs on Rivs

[Ray Varella]

Jim S.
Some key things to consider when working with any animal to perform any task. 
The animal is never wrong. 
Set up the environment so the only possible outcome is for the animal to be 
successful 

If the dog isn’t ready to stay in the basket, the worst thing you can do is 
force the issue. This can have unforeseen consequences. 
I would start by desensitizing the dog to the basket before installing it on 
the bike. 
Depending on the dog, this could take one session or several days, don’t rush 
it. Reinforce the closest approximation of your desired behavior. Do not 
reinforce any undesired behavior. 
Once the dog is willingly going in and out of the basket you can install the 
basket on the bike. 
Start by just straddling the bike and little by little, increasing the amount 
of time. 
Next go to a location with no distractions or safety hazards. An empty tennis 
court or baseball field or indoor gym would be good. 
Gradually raise the criteria. 

Feel free to contact me offlist, you’re welcome to call. 

Cheers,
Ray

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[RBW] Re: Cheviot and Bike Rack

[Joe Bernard]

This story would be better if the rack ended up in the car, too ;-)

Related note: one time I carried a long-wheelbase recumbent - wheels and giant 
seat removed - on a hitch rack behind my Honda Civic on a twisty mountain road. 
The bike was wider than the car AND the road. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Cheviot and Bike Rack

[Kiley Demond]

Touché!
On Jun 22, 2018, 10:34 PM -0700, Joe Bernard , wrote:
> This story would be better if the rack ended up in the car, too ;-)
>
> Related note: one time I carried a long-wheelbase recumbent - wheels and 
> giant seat removed - on a hitch rack behind my Honda Civic on a twisty 
> mountain road. The bike was wider than the car AND the road.
>
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