[RBW] Re: WTB: Nitto wire guard

[Kevin D norcal - santa rosa]

I also have one available (Nitto wire guard) if anyone else is wanting.
On Thursday, January 20, 2022 at 1:55:16 PM UTC-8 jamin orrall wrote:

> wire guard found!
> On Wednesday, January 19, 2022 at 2:04:29 PM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> Sure, I can part with mine.  $35 shipped.
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Tuesday, January 18, 2022 at 8:42:56 PM UTC-8 jamin orrall wrote:
>>
>>> Looking for a Nitto wire guard, I have attached a photo.  They seem to 
>>> be out of stock except for international dealers.  Would rather a tiny 
>>> piece of wire not have to travel so far.  Anyone have one in the US? I'm in 
>>> Los Angeles.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Jamin
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Best grocery pannier? Nice lightweight wool cycling "jacket" or full-zip mid-weight jersey?

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Eric; and those come in red, too!

I want something with a flap and something that can be adapted to an
Ortlieb or Arkle-type "clamp" mounting system and be offset to the rear by
about 3". I've owned at least 2 different grocery panniers of this design,
and they work well on smooth unobstructed routes, but I've lost one such
similar pannier when riding on a dirt road; either fell off on a bump, or
perhaps was scraped off when I went through some path entry barriers.
(Fortunately I had nothing particularly valuable in the pannier at the
time.)

On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 9:22 AM Eric Marth  wrote:

> Forgive me if these don't check all of your boxes, I don't have that much
> processing power. But check 'em out!
>
> https://www.jandd.com/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=FGBP
>

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Re: [RBW] ISO Brooklyn Riv Bike 'Gang'

[luckyturnip]

Hi Minh, I’m not from NY so unfortunately can’t join your gang but I sure would 
enjoy if you posted some pics of your “over the top” Quickbeam! I’m a fan of 
ogling Quickbeams and your description is so fun.
Best of luck finding your people! 

> On Jan 21, 2022, at 19:25, Minh  wrote:
> 
> Hi all, my name is Minh and i'm on the lookout for other Brooklyn Riv'sters, 
> maybe we can start a gang, and by gang i mean a bunch of slow riders that 
> will use our age, wisdom and sharply appointed bikes to intimidate the 
> go-fast riders in Prospect Park.  
> 
> In all seriousness, i've got a Quickbeam here that i am desperately trying to 
> justify keeping in this cramped Park Slope apartment.  Something that would 
> go a long way towards that is to get out and ride with like-minded folks.   
> Maybe when it gets warmer we can do a ride out of town?  I know i've seen a 
> sharply dressed Riv Mixte riding thru the park, if you see me on my 
> QB--you'll know its me from the over the top accessories, please say hi!
> 
> If this is interesting please reply here, i'll collect names and we can start 
> a local mini thread? 
> 
> On a related note have a small pile of bike parts that i'm not likely to use 
> that i'd like to donate, if anyone is aware of a co-op that is open taking 
> donations, please let me know!
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[RBW] ISO Brooklyn Riv Bike 'Gang'

[Minh]

Hi all, my name is Minh and i'm on the lookout for other Brooklyn 
Riv'sters, maybe we can start a gang, and by gang i mean a bunch of slow 
riders that will use our age, wisdom and sharply appointed bikes to 
intimidate the go-fast riders in Prospect Park.  

In all seriousness, i've got a Quickbeam here that i am desperately trying 
to justify keeping in this cramped Park Slope apartment.  Something that 
would go a long way towards that is to get out and ride with like-minded 
folks.   Maybe when it gets warmer we can do a ride out of town?  I know 
i've seen a sharply dressed Riv Mixte riding thru the park, if you see me 
on my QB--you'll know its me from the over the top accessories, please say 
hi!

If this is interesting please reply here, i'll collect names and we can 
start a local mini thread? 

On a related note have a small pile of bike parts that i'm not likely to 
use that i'd like to donate, if anyone is aware of a co-op that is open 
taking donations, please let me know!

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[RBW] FS - Used cockpit parts plus one pair shoes

['Bikie#4646' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I'd like to put these used cockpit parts (and one pair of shoes) up for 
your consideration. (Please excuse the double-post on another list.) Each 
is a separate Flickr album. All items are used and condition is stated 
below. Do not hesitate to contact me if you have questions. I can forward 
shipping costs based on destination. (CONUS only, please.)Thanks,
Paul Germain
Midlothian, Va.

Nitto Grand Randonneur 135 handlebar, used, like new. $50, plus shipping.
25.4 mm clamp size. (Will work for 26 mm with shims.) 45 cm measured at 
drop ends; 37 cm at ramps, (C-to-C). Slight flare outward at drop ends. 
Heat treated aluminum. Current Ben's Cycles internet price, $95, plus 
shipping and tax.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/bikecrazy-paul/albums/72177720295841319

Nitto-made Grand Bois Randonneur handlebar, used, like new. $60, plus 
shipping.
25.4 mm clamp size (26 mm will work with shims). 41 cm width, measured at 
drop ends, 38 cm at ramps, (C-to-C). Slight flare outward at drop ends, 
dramatic rise from clamp area. Current Rene Herse internet price, $129, 
plus hipping and tax. Heat treated aluminum, Bright finish.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/bikecrazy-paul/albums/72177720295841994

Soma Urban Cross top (interrupter) brake levers, used, like new. $20, plus 
shipping.
Silver, standard 24 mm clamp (for 25.4 / 26 mm drop bars). Nicest CX-style 
levers around! No scratches or scuffs. Current Modern Bike internet price, 
$45, plus shipping and tax.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/bikecrazy-paul/albums/72177720295843491

TRP RL950 Carbon CX top brake levers. $25, plus shipping.
CX-style (interrupter) levers, 24 mm clamp (for standard 25.4/26 mm bars) 
78 grams/pair. Very nice condition w/no scratches or scars.Universal Cycles 
price $70, plus shipping and tax.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/bikecrazy-paul/albums/72177720296025642

DiaCompe BL-07 Aero style Brake Levers, $18, plus shipping.
Drop bar aero brake levers, silver w/black hoods. In good working condition 
with normal wear and minor scuffs, except tear underneath right hood. (see 
image). Current Universal Cycles price, $44, plus shipping and tax.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/bikecrazy-paul/albums/72177720295842790

Performance Forte' lugged mountain bike shoes. Size 44 / 10.5 -  $18, plus 
shipping.
In good condition with normal wear except for two of the metal cleats on 
one shoes which need to be replaced. No charge for the Virginia dirt.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/bikecrazy-paul/albums/72177720295872145

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[RBW] Re: FS: Tunitas Caryall Basket Pack for 137 basket

[Jim S.]

Bump. $140 shipped.

On Monday, January 17, 2022 at 4:38:27 PM UTC-6 Jim S. wrote:

> $150 shipped.
>
> This has never been on a bike. Never had an item in it. Bought it for a 
> daughter, which daughter rejected it. I don't know why.
>
> Here are photos:
>
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/vZ113rLDf8Sfi7rj7
>
> Here's a product description:
>
> https://www.tunitascarryall.com/product-page/basket-pack
>
> Thanks.
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: Simworks Goodluck bag - $150 shipped

[Jim S.]

Bump. $140 shipped. 

On Monday, January 17, 2022 at 4:54:24 PM UTC-6 Jim S. wrote:

> Never been on a bike. Never had an item in it. It looks like Simworks 
> doesn't sell these any more. This bag could go in a basket, but no basket 
> is necessary. Instead, it can click to a rack. I think it's tailor-made for 
> the Obento rack. I paid $175 for it in April 2020. It's burgundy waxed 
> canvas. It comes with a detachable shoulder strap, which is shown in one of 
> the photos.
>
> Here are photos:
>
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/F2qXs6KDp6PxtEq8A
>
> Here's a link to a product description. I couldn't find it on the Simworks 
> page. But there are nice photos and description at this link, if you scroll 
> down:
>
> https://circles-jp.com/bags/74316/
>
> Thank you for any interest.
>
>

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Re: [RBW] New Roadinis will have clearance for 42 mm tires

[Joe Bernard]

Missed it! Probably wouldn't have jumped anyway - I'm getting a strong itch 
for a Platy - but it's cool!

Joe Bernard

On Friday, January 21, 2022 at 1:52:05 PM UTC-8 Doug H. wrote:

> Joe, you need that Stainless Steel Clem!
> Doug
>
> On Friday, January 21, 2022 at 4:04:44 PM UTC-5 Eric Daume wrote:
>
>> The prototype is for sale on the Riv site. $2k complete, 57cm. If it were 
>> a 60cm I would have bought it.
>>
>> I did some powerpoint measurements and estimate the seat height in the 
>> photo to be 30.6", FWIW.
>>
>> Eric
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 17, 2022 at 10:38 AM Pancake  wrote:
>>
>>> I was excited for a Charles H Gallop too, but no v-brakes means I’m out. 
>>> Wish I could snag that prototype, because that is just an ideal setup. 
>>>
>>> But the Sam Hillborne also started with long reach brakes (like mine) 
>>> and eventually made its way to canti/V-brake posts so hopefully CHG goes 
>>> the same way and sooner than later. 
>>>
>>> Abe
>>>
>>> On Sunday, 16 January 2022 at 09:38:06 UTC-8 Eric Daume wrote:
>>>
 Yeah, I was really looking forward to the CHG, but the long reach 
 brakes kill it for me. 

 Eric


 On Sunday, January 16, 2022, Johnny Alien  wrote:

> I am a little shocked that they are apparently bringing that change 
> over to the Charlie Gallop too. Instead of the V-brake/cantilever setup 
> that the previous prototype had. Since they are designing their own V 
> brakes that look to be quite nice it seems that they would push the bikes 
> toward that. The only reason I can think that they would make that change 
> is because sidepulls are a little more common on road style bikes. But 
> making a decision based only on aesthetics seems counter to how Rivendell 
> normally does things.
>
> On Sunday, January 16, 2022 at 11:48:38 AM UTC-5 Linda G wrote:
>
>> I'm so glad I bought my Roadini frame before this change! The 559 
>> brakes do not work for me: poor power in dry conditions and unusable in 
>> wet. I find that 33mm tires have plenty of cush and 42's would probably 
>> create toe overlap on a 50 size frame. I'm grateful to have found a 
>> Rivendell frame that works for me. 
>> [image: DSC00040.JPG]
>>
>> On Friday, January 14, 2022 at 9:46:12 PM UTC-8 Eamon Nordquist wrote:
>>
>>> I saw today the announcement that the new Roadinis are niw designed 
>>> for R559 brakes and will easily clear 42 mm tires. Good news, as far as 
>>> I’m 
>>> concerned! The only thing I am slightly sad about is that they aren’t 
>>> coming in grilver, which is THE color for the Roadini, in my opinion. 
>>> That 
>>> may be influenced by my love for the silver gray imron paint on early 
>>> 80’s 
>>> Treks. Regardless, if I have a  job by then, I may have to get one.
>>>
>>> Eamon
>>> Seattle 
>>>
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>  
> 
> .
>
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>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] New Roadinis will have clearance for 42 mm tires

[Johnny Alien]

Nice. There is a 54cm complete too. Someone should grab those us. These are 
perfect this way. I appreciate the slightly deeper swoop and canti/V brake 
posts. I absolutely love my Proto Gallop. I find it interesting that they 
are designed for swept back but coming with albastache. Albastache are 
great bars but don't sweep back enough. I think you should have a stem much 
shorter than what they have on there. It really seems like they are making 
some optic decisions based on what a road bike is to most people. Either 
way...great bike, grab them quick.
On Friday, January 21, 2022 at 4:04:44 PM UTC-5 Eric Daume wrote:

> The prototype is for sale on the Riv site. $2k complete, 57cm. If it were 
> a 60cm I would have bought it.
>
> I did some powerpoint measurements and estimate the seat height in the 
> photo to be 30.6", FWIW.
>
> Eric
>
> On Mon, Jan 17, 2022 at 10:38 AM Pancake  wrote:
>
>> I was excited for a Charles H Gallop too, but no v-brakes means I’m out. 
>> Wish I could snag that prototype, because that is just an ideal setup. 
>>
>> But the Sam Hillborne also started with long reach brakes (like mine) and 
>> eventually made its way to canti/V-brake posts so hopefully CHG goes the 
>> same way and sooner than later. 
>>
>> Abe
>>
>> On Sunday, 16 January 2022 at 09:38:06 UTC-8 Eric Daume wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah, I was really looking forward to the CHG, but the long reach brakes 
>>> kill it for me. 
>>>
>>> Eric
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sunday, January 16, 2022, Johnny Alien  wrote:
>>>
 I am a little shocked that they are apparently bringing that change 
 over to the Charlie Gallop too. Instead of the V-brake/cantilever setup 
 that the previous prototype had. Since they are designing their own V 
 brakes that look to be quite nice it seems that they would push the bikes 
 toward that. The only reason I can think that they would make that change 
 is because sidepulls are a little more common on road style bikes. But 
 making a decision based only on aesthetics seems counter to how Rivendell 
 normally does things.

 On Sunday, January 16, 2022 at 11:48:38 AM UTC-5 Linda G wrote:

> I'm so glad I bought my Roadini frame before this change! The 559 
> brakes do not work for me: poor power in dry conditions and unusable in 
> wet. I find that 33mm tires have plenty of cush and 42's would probably 
> create toe overlap on a 50 size frame. I'm grateful to have found a 
> Rivendell frame that works for me. 
> [image: DSC00040.JPG]
>
> On Friday, January 14, 2022 at 9:46:12 PM UTC-8 Eamon Nordquist wrote:
>
>> I saw today the announcement that the new Roadinis are niw designed 
>> for R559 brakes and will easily clear 42 mm tires. Good news, as far as 
>> I’m 
>> concerned! The only thing I am slightly sad about is that they aren’t 
>> coming in grilver, which is THE color for the Roadini, in my opinion. 
>> That 
>> may be influenced by my love for the silver gray imron paint on early 
>> 80’s 
>> Treks. Regardless, if I have a  job by then, I may have to get one.
>>
>> Eamon
>> Seattle 
>>
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 .

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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] New Roadinis will have clearance for 42 mm tires

[Doug H.]

Joe, you need that Stainless Steel Clem!
Doug

On Friday, January 21, 2022 at 4:04:44 PM UTC-5 Eric Daume wrote:

> The prototype is for sale on the Riv site. $2k complete, 57cm. If it were 
> a 60cm I would have bought it.
>
> I did some powerpoint measurements and estimate the seat height in the 
> photo to be 30.6", FWIW.
>
> Eric
>
> On Mon, Jan 17, 2022 at 10:38 AM Pancake  wrote:
>
>> I was excited for a Charles H Gallop too, but no v-brakes means I’m out. 
>> Wish I could snag that prototype, because that is just an ideal setup. 
>>
>> But the Sam Hillborne also started with long reach brakes (like mine) and 
>> eventually made its way to canti/V-brake posts so hopefully CHG goes the 
>> same way and sooner than later. 
>>
>> Abe
>>
>> On Sunday, 16 January 2022 at 09:38:06 UTC-8 Eric Daume wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah, I was really looking forward to the CHG, but the long reach brakes 
>>> kill it for me. 
>>>
>>> Eric
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sunday, January 16, 2022, Johnny Alien  wrote:
>>>
 I am a little shocked that they are apparently bringing that change 
 over to the Charlie Gallop too. Instead of the V-brake/cantilever setup 
 that the previous prototype had. Since they are designing their own V 
 brakes that look to be quite nice it seems that they would push the bikes 
 toward that. The only reason I can think that they would make that change 
 is because sidepulls are a little more common on road style bikes. But 
 making a decision based only on aesthetics seems counter to how Rivendell 
 normally does things.

 On Sunday, January 16, 2022 at 11:48:38 AM UTC-5 Linda G wrote:

> I'm so glad I bought my Roadini frame before this change! The 559 
> brakes do not work for me: poor power in dry conditions and unusable in 
> wet. I find that 33mm tires have plenty of cush and 42's would probably 
> create toe overlap on a 50 size frame. I'm grateful to have found a 
> Rivendell frame that works for me. 
> [image: DSC00040.JPG]
>
> On Friday, January 14, 2022 at 9:46:12 PM UTC-8 Eamon Nordquist wrote:
>
>> I saw today the announcement that the new Roadinis are niw designed 
>> for R559 brakes and will easily clear 42 mm tires. Good news, as far as 
>> I’m 
>> concerned! The only thing I am slightly sad about is that they aren’t 
>> coming in grilver, which is THE color for the Roadini, in my opinion. 
>> That 
>> may be influenced by my love for the silver gray imron paint on early 
>> 80’s 
>> Treks. Regardless, if I have a  job by then, I may have to get one.
>>
>> Eamon
>> Seattle 
>>
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 .

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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] New Roadinis will have clearance for 42 mm tires

[Eric Daume]

The prototype is for sale on the Riv site. $2k complete, 57cm. If it were a
60cm I would have bought it.

I did some powerpoint measurements and estimate the seat height in the
photo to be 30.6", FWIW.

Eric

On Mon, Jan 17, 2022 at 10:38 AM Pancake  wrote:

> I was excited for a Charles H Gallop too, but no v-brakes means I’m out.
> Wish I could snag that prototype, because that is just an ideal setup.
>
> But the Sam Hillborne also started with long reach brakes (like mine) and
> eventually made its way to canti/V-brake posts so hopefully CHG goes the
> same way and sooner than later.
>
> Abe
>
> On Sunday, 16 January 2022 at 09:38:06 UTC-8 Eric Daume wrote:
>
>> Yeah, I was really looking forward to the CHG, but the long reach brakes
>> kill it for me.
>>
>> Eric
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, January 16, 2022, Johnny Alien  wrote:
>>
>>> I am a little shocked that they are apparently bringing that change over
>>> to the Charlie Gallop too. Instead of the V-brake/cantilever setup that the
>>> previous prototype had. Since they are designing their own V brakes that
>>> look to be quite nice it seems that they would push the bikes toward that.
>>> The only reason I can think that they would make that change is because
>>> sidepulls are a little more common on road style bikes. But making a
>>> decision based only on aesthetics seems counter to how Rivendell normally
>>> does things.
>>>
>>> On Sunday, January 16, 2022 at 11:48:38 AM UTC-5 Linda G wrote:
>>>
 I'm so glad I bought my Roadini frame before this change! The 559
 brakes do not work for me: poor power in dry conditions and unusable in
 wet. I find that 33mm tires have plenty of cush and 42's would probably
 create toe overlap on a 50 size frame. I'm grateful to have found a
 Rivendell frame that works for me.
 [image: DSC00040.JPG]

 On Friday, January 14, 2022 at 9:46:12 PM UTC-8 Eamon Nordquist wrote:

> I saw today the announcement that the new Roadinis are niw designed
> for R559 brakes and will easily clear 42 mm tires. Good news, as far as 
> I’m
> concerned! The only thing I am slightly sad about is that they aren’t
> coming in grilver, which is THE color for the Roadini, in my opinion. That
> may be influenced by my love for the silver gray imron paint on early 80’s
> Treks. Regardless, if I have a  job by then, I may have to get one.
>
> Eamon
> Seattle
>
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[RBW] Re: FS: 2011 A. Homer Hilsen 61cm Custom Color

[Brian Campbell]

Sold

On Thursday, January 13, 2022 at 2:09:32 PM UTC-5 Brian Campbell wrote:

> Sold pending payment
>
> On Sunday, January 9, 2022 at 7:43:17 PM UTC-5 Brian Campbell wrote:
>
>> Still looking for a new steward..
>>
>> On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 3:32:05 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> Just here to say this bike is perfect, WOW.  GLWS 
>>>
>>> On Sunday, 2 January 2022 at 03:09:40 UTC-8 brendonoid wrote:
>>>
 I am likewise pretty amazed this hasn't sold yet. I have been tempted 
 to get a Homer the same vintage as mine 2cm smaller to run drop bars on. 
 Could have been a very fun addition to my stable but alas I just threw the 
 dough at a Susie.

 GLWS



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Re: [RBW] Best grocery pannier? Nice lightweight wool cycling "jacket" or full-zip mid-weight jersey?

[Eric Marth]

Forgive me if these don't check all of your boxes, I don't have that much 
processing power. But check 'em out! 

https://www.jandd.com/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=FGBP

On Thursday, January 20, 2022 at 6:51:16 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Thanks very much, Joe, but after having used very many baskets front and 
> rear, including the folding Walds*, throughout my cycling lifetime, I 
> prefer Tubus or custom racks and a pair of nice panniers (or, for 
> occasional use on bikes with no racks, a selection of saddlebags in 
> different designs and sizes with various saddlebag supports and attachment 
> mechs.
>
> *I first installed these on a 5-speed Raleigh Sprite with North Road bar 
> which I flipped for that cafe racer look (and Alvit rd! -- which shifted 
> fine with the stem shifter) back in 1985 or so, when I lived in WDC. My 
> rack was a Pletscher, which was never, ever known for being rigid. I recall 
> riding the 2 blocks home to my apt just above Georgetown on Wisconsin Ave 
> NW at night with both baskets full -- gal milk, 6 pak beer, 5 lb sug, 2 lb 
> rice, and so on -- and being very, very glad that I could take backstreet 
> residential streets, because the rack/load combo would sway aggressively in 
> time to my pedaling, causing the bike to follow lazy left/right swerves 
> across the entire right of way. The fault was the rack, of course, and I 
> used these baskets several times on other bikes, and on better racks. 
> They're fine.
>
> On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 4:20 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
>> You need folding baskets with Wald bags in them. I still have the bags, 
>> you can have them for shipping, they're perfect for shopping. 
>>
>> Joe Bernard
>>
>> On Thursday, January 20, 2022 at 2:23:15 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks, Robert. I'd rather not deal with neck cords or zippers. Right 
>>> now the Backrollers work alright, especially since I removed the internal 
>>> pockets that would catch bags and items as I shoved them down, and I will 
>>> investigate the North St. bag.
>>>
>>> Funny to admit, but if my criteria were purely practical, I'd go back to 
>>> the very best ever grocery panniers I've ever used, no exception: a pair of 
>>> $4 (on sale) 13 gallon plastic trash cans from Target, strapped using 
>>> dowels for support to the rear rack. huge capacity, no obstruction at all 
>>> for shoving things, bags or otherwise, in, and plenty of room in back for 
>>> reflective stickers. Their fatal downside, I have to admit, was that they 
>>> made me look like a dork. 
>>>
>>> Even funnier: I recall how, back 10 years ago or so when I was young and 
>>> fit and green -- mid 50s -- I was spinning along on that 1973 Motobecane 
>>> making time in the 67" gear with these trashcans attached, and was 
>>> unintentionally gaining space on a CF lycra clad -- I will use the word 
>>> "roadie" because he got annoyed and sped up to pass me; so the derogation 
>>> is appropriate. He then missed the turn I made, and came back to pass me 
>>> again. It didn't click with me until I got home -- my reaction at the 
>>> moment was, "what's this guy doing here again; didn't I just see him?"; if 
>>> I'd understood, I'd have run him off the road. But I am sure that he got 
>>> upset because what to his provincial eyes looked like a fredly dork on a 
>>> beater bike -- and with a long pony tail, no helmet, and in more or less 
>>> civilian clothes -- was disrespecting him.
>>>
>>> Actually sold them with an old beater bike to my NDN who used the setup 
>>> for some years, though for the last 7 or so bike and trashcans have been 
>>> slowly disintegrating in the NM sun.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 8:04 PM  wrote:
>>>
 I used the Arkel grocery pannier quite a bit and I really liked it. It 
 meets most of your criteria but has a zip top and not a buckle top. The 
 new 
 version looks to have a draw cord top which would make sliding a paper bag 
 full of groceries in more difficult maybe? Their hardware is adjustable so 
 it would be simple to position it further back on a rack.

 https://www.arkel-od.com/shopper-foldable/

 Robert Tilley
 San Diego, CA

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Jan 19, 2022, at 2:57 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

 I'm curious if anyone has suggestions for the following that meet
 possibly weird and certainly nit-picky criteria.

 A. This is largely academic since the old Ortlieb Backrollers serve
 well enough, but I do prefer a flap with Fastek buckle instead of the
 rollup method of closure. So: What is the best grocery pannier,
 defining best by my own criteria, in order of importance:
 1. Single compartment large enough to swallow a full paper grocery
 sack, and with no interior pockets or dividers of any sort;
 2. Flap with single buckle.
 3. As sturdy at least as the Ortliebs, tho' I don't care if it's
 cotton or nylon canvas or tarp material; and I do not need it to