Re: [RBW] Re: Club Rides On A Racing Platypus

[Leah Peterson]

Doug - congrats on your increasing fitness on your new bike! Bikes and health 
are great investments. Despite demonstrating that speed and comfort are NOT 
mutually exclusive, I have made zero converts. Absolutely no one is rushing out 
to buy a Racing Platypus of their own. However, their gaze has been shifted to 
using bikes as transportation/for errands, and there is some interest in the 
club about getting Rivendells to that end. The club recently asked 5 of us to 
present how we commute/shop by bike and two of us were Rivendell owners, so 
that was pretty awesome. The club has been saying it wants to broaden its focus 
and even changed its mission statement to be more inclusive of all types of 
cycling. So, the winds of change are blowing.

Joe - I think you have to join a club ride. Your paint is Rad Red. That’s 
racing paint.

I try to be a good sport about the comments but they do get old. They just have 
to say something, though; I think it’s too much for them. They have subscribed 
to the racing school of thought and then a clear violator of the rules speeds 
by. If one can assign value to suffering, then that’s one thing. You can be 
willing to suffer if there’s a payoff. But what if you were riding an 
uncomfortable bike/saddle and wearing uncomfortable clothes/shoes/diaper butt 
for NO REASON? If you can be fast without that stuff, then what? Sacred cows. 
Being slaughtered.

Anyway, I am not trying to rag on the racers. I love riding with the racers. We 
just see things differently, but I’m glad to know them.
L

> On Sep 9, 2022, at 9:01 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
> 
> I love your smiling comeback to the guys. Personally if I was hammering on a 
> carbon racer and a young lady on a pretty raspberry mixte with fenders, rack 
> and dynohub beat me I wouldn't pull up in the parking lot and tell her she's 
> doing it wrong. I'd ask what I'm doing wrong! 
> 
>> On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 2:58:33 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>> wrote:
>> I’ve continued my club rides this summer, and will soon get to experience 
>> them in the fall. There is no question that these rides have made me fitter; 
>> I can look back at my Apple Watch recordings and see it. I’m sure everyone 
>> is fitter by the end of the season, actually. Before I joined the group, my 
>> normal trips were a mere 10 miles, and I was proud of that mileage. Now, is 
>> not uncommon for me to ride 28-30 miles on a club ride, and go out again on 
>> my own ride the same day. I just have to be careful that I get enough 
>> hydration and electrolytes, or I pay for it the next day. At the beginning 
>> of the season I was in the 14 mph group. The watch shows the “splits”, a 
>> mile by mile tracking of speed, and I can also see what my heart rate was 
>> doing - it was up in 140s and 150s. Now I’m in the 16 mph group and we 
>> exceed 16 regularly, but my heart rate is still slower at high speeds than 
>> it was when I was in the slower group. I’ve considered riding with a group 
>> going 17, but I would be pushing and I have to think it’s hard on one’s 
>> heart to push it for upwards of 2 hours. 
>> 
>> Today’s women’s ride was a hilly route that took us through vineyard after 
>> vineyard. Wait until you smell the grapes, they told me. Did you know that 
>> grapes have a scent? I did not. They smell exactly like grape juice, which I 
>> did not expect, since I’ve never eaten a grape that tasted like grape juice. 
>> Also of note from today: a near tragedy. The ride starts at a park. The 
>> group was circled up, waiting for the last woman to arrive. She approached 
>> on the 2 lane road, 2 vehicles behind her. She was lit up, had her arm wide 
>> out, signaling to turn left. A woman near me began to scream NO NO NO NO NO 
>> NO!! The truck directly behind her slowed, but the one behind him 
>> decided to pass. He nearly killed Anne. She was unharmed but deeply shaken. 
>> 
>> I’ve learned a lot about road safety and being a good group member by 
>> calling out road hazards and taking my turn leading the group so the ride 
>> leaders can rest. I love all the scenery and the wildlife and the crops. We 
>> see animals and flowers and lakes on every ride. It’s a feast for the eyes, 
>> and I love that I can sit upright to fully see and appreciate them. I look 
>> down at my raspberry bike and I love that we get to do this together. The 
>> camaraderie is enjoyable; it is good to be with bike people, even if they 
>> don’t understand your choice of bike. I’m no longer self-conscious when I 
>> roll up at the start of the ride. I don’t feel pressure to wear clicky shoes 
>> or a jersey; I’m there with my Grant Safety Triangle and my Target workout 
>> wear and my Keen sandals and I don’t feel inadequate. 
>> 
>> I still get comments on nearly every ride about how much my bike weighs or 
>> how fast I *could* be if only I had a real road bike, but I weather them 
>> pretty well and only send comebacks to the most egregious offenders. 

[RBW] Re: Black Waxed Canvas Acorn Bags

[Matthew Williams]

Tool Roll Bag has been sold!

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Re: [RBW] Re: Club Rides On A Racing Platypus

[Joe Bernard]

I love your smiling comeback to the guys. Personally if I was hammering on 
a carbon racer and a young lady on a pretty raspberry mixte with fenders, 
rack and dynohub beat me I wouldn't pull up in the parking lot and tell her 
she's doing it wrong. I'd ask what *I'm *doing wrong! 

On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 2:58:33 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> I’ve continued my club rides this summer, and will soon get to experience 
> them in the fall. There is no question that these rides have made me 
> fitter; I can look back at my Apple Watch recordings and see it. I’m sure 
> everyone is fitter by the end of the season, actually. Before I joined the 
> group, my normal trips were a mere 10 miles, and I was proud of that 
> mileage. Now, is not uncommon for me to ride 28-30 miles on a club ride, 
> and go out again on my own ride the same day. I just have to be careful 
> that I get enough hydration and electrolytes, or I pay for it the next day. 
> At the beginning of the season I was in the 14 mph group. The watch shows 
> the “splits”, a mile by mile tracking of speed, and I can also see what my 
> heart rate was doing - it was up in 140s and 150s. Now I’m in the 16 mph 
> group and we exceed 16 regularly, but my heart rate is still slower at high 
> speeds than it was when I was in the slower group. I’ve considered riding 
> with a group going 17, but I would be pushing and I have to think it’s hard 
> on one’s heart to push it for upwards of 2 hours. 
>
> Today’s women’s ride was a hilly route that took us through vineyard after 
> vineyard. Wait until you smell the grapes, they told me. Did you know that 
> grapes have a scent? I did not. They smell exactly like grape juice, which 
> I did not expect, since I’ve never eaten a grape that tasted like grape 
> juice. Also of note from today: a near tragedy. The ride starts at a park. 
> The group was circled up, waiting for the last woman to arrive. She 
> approached on the 2 lane road, 2 vehicles behind her. She was lit up, had 
> her arm wide out, signaling to turn left. A woman near me began to scream 
> NO NO NO NO NO NO!! The truck directly behind her slowed, but the one 
> behind him decided to pass. He nearly killed Anne. She was unharmed but 
> deeply shaken. 
>
> I’ve learned a lot about road safety and being a good group member by 
> calling out road hazards and taking my turn leading the group so the ride 
> leaders can rest. I love all the scenery and the wildlife and the crops. We 
> see animals and flowers and lakes on every ride. It’s a feast for the eyes, 
> and I love that I can sit upright to fully see and appreciate them. I look 
> down at my raspberry bike and I love that we get to do this together. The 
> camaraderie is enjoyable; it is good to be with bike people, even if they 
> don’t understand your choice of bike. I’m no longer self-conscious when I 
> roll up at the start of the ride. I don’t feel pressure to wear clicky 
> shoes or a jersey; I’m there with my Grant Safety Triangle and my Target 
> workout wear and my Keen sandals and I don’t feel inadequate. 
>
> I still get comments on nearly every ride about how much my bike weighs or 
> how fast I *could* be if only I had a real road bike, but I weather them 
> pretty well and only send comebacks to the most egregious offenders. This 
> will always happen at the end of the ride, after we sprint to the parking 
> lot. Some guy will come find me at my vehicle and tell me how I’m doing it 
> wrong. After getting lectured about how I could go 25% faster if I had this 
> bike and narrow tires, blah, blah, I say, “Well, I just beat you, so I 
> don’t think my bike is the problem.”  This is now my standard response. But 
> I smile when I say it. Seeing that I will not be parted from my Racing 
> Platypus, some have now moved onto my heavy Hydroflask. I carry 40 oz of 
> water in a stainless steel Hydroflask and they can’t get over me lugging 
> all that extra weight along. Also, they want to know if it is orange juice 
> in there. Oh, whatever. 
>
> I laugh, and they laugh and we ride on.
>
> Leah
> (Pictures attached, but only of the women’s rides, because they are the 
> only group who will stop for a photo op!)
> On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 9:27:43 PM UTC-4 Max S wrote:
>
>> As many / most of you know, carbon fiber composites have been in 
>> structural applications in aerospace and other fields for decades. That 
>> said, the frequency and thoroughness of regular inspections (and 
>> replacement) carried out in those applications is perhaps beyond what a 
>> typical cyclist is willing to do. But here's a couple of nice videos that 
>> demonstrate the durability of CF bike parts: 
>>
>> Danny MacAskill Tests Santa Cruz Reserve Carbon Wheels: 
>> https://youtu.be/VfjjiHGuHoc 
>>
>> Carbon vs Aluminum Frames - Which is Stronger? (you can skip to 1:40 mark 
>> for start of tests)
>> https://youtu.be/w5eMMf11uhM 
>>
>> But there are also examples of frames and 

Re: [RBW] Heat in the Bay

[Jon Dukeman]

Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. 99' in Colorado. 3 records broken

On Fri, Sep 9, 2022, 6:53 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:

> You think "media" have it wrong and "these numbers have been exaggerated
> all week" ? I don't understand your implication here.
>
> On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 5:32:12 PM UTC-7 kwi...@weimar.edu wrote:
>
>> Yes, 114 is extremely rare in the East Bay, but I live up in the hills of
>> the North Bay (Napa Valley) and while we were told by media that our high
>> was 112, my weather station under my covered front porch (shade) indicated
>> a high of 91 degrees.  I also did my 30 mile ride with a six mile climb at
>> 12.00 noon, and did not ‘feel’ like I was climbing in extreme heat.  These
>> numbers have been exaggerated all week, but maybe these are urban temps;
>> not rural.
>>
>> On Friday, September 9, 2022, George Schick  wrote:
>>
>>> Just got a regular email from Will announcing bike frame availability
>>> among other things.  "Other things" include his comment that last Tuesday
>>> the temps reached 114 degrees!!?  Isn't that a rare temperature for the Bay
>>> area in NoCal?
>>>
>>> --
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>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>>
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>>
>>
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
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>>> 
>>> .
>>>
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> .
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Re: [RBW] Heat in the Bay

[Joe Bernard]

You think "media" have it wrong and "these numbers have been exaggerated 
all week" ? I don't understand your implication here. 

On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 5:32:12 PM UTC-7 kwi...@weimar.edu wrote:

> Yes, 114 is extremely rare in the East Bay, but I live up in the hills of 
> the North Bay (Napa Valley) and while we were told by media that our high 
> was 112, my weather station under my covered front porch (shade) indicated 
> a high of 91 degrees.  I also did my 30 mile ride with a six mile climb at 
> 12.00 noon, and did not ‘feel’ like I was climbing in extreme heat.  These 
> numbers have been exaggerated all week, but maybe these are urban temps; 
> not rural.
>
> On Friday, September 9, 2022, George Schick  wrote:
>
>> Just got a regular email from Will announcing bike frame availability 
>> among other things.  "Other things" include his comment that last Tuesday 
>> the temps reached 114 degrees!!?  Isn't that a rare temperature for the Bay 
>> area in NoCal?
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>
>
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/d8b16967-8522-41b6-a7f6-1d44e02d4f1en%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Club Rides On A Racing Platypus

[Doug H.]

So glad you are showing the others that you can be both comfortable and 
fast!  I've noticed too that as I ride more, especially more hills, I've 
gotten stronger and developed more endurance. I'm not looking to be fast 
but my average speed has increased with the same effort the past few 
months. It really makes cycling more fun when I can ride with less effort. 
Your group looks fun!
Doug

On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 5:58:33 PM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> I’ve continued my club rides this summer, and will soon get to experience 
> them in the fall. There is no question that these rides have made me 
> fitter; I can look back at my Apple Watch recordings and see it. I’m sure 
> everyone is fitter by the end of the season, actually. Before I joined the 
> group, my normal trips were a mere 10 miles, and I was proud of that 
> mileage. Now, is not uncommon for me to ride 28-30 miles on a club ride, 
> and go out again on my own ride the same day. I just have to be careful 
> that I get enough hydration and electrolytes, or I pay for it the next day. 
> At the beginning of the season I was in the 14 mph group. The watch shows 
> the “splits”, a mile by mile tracking of speed, and I can also see what my 
> heart rate was doing - it was up in 140s and 150s. Now I’m in the 16 mph 
> group and we exceed 16 regularly, but my heart rate is still slower at high 
> speeds than it was when I was in the slower group. I’ve considered riding 
> with a group going 17, but I would be pushing and I have to think it’s hard 
> on one’s heart to push it for upwards of 2 hours. 
>
> Today’s women’s ride was a hilly route that took us through vineyard after 
> vineyard. Wait until you smell the grapes, they told me. Did you know that 
> grapes have a scent? I did not. They smell exactly like grape juice, which 
> I did not expect, since I’ve never eaten a grape that tasted like grape 
> juice. Also of note from today: a near tragedy. The ride starts at a park. 
> The group was circled up, waiting for the last woman to arrive. She 
> approached on the 2 lane road, 2 vehicles behind her. She was lit up, had 
> her arm wide out, signaling to turn left. A woman near me began to scream 
> NO NO NO NO NO NO!! The truck directly behind her slowed, but the one 
> behind him decided to pass. He nearly killed Anne. She was unharmed but 
> deeply shaken. 
>
> I’ve learned a lot about road safety and being a good group member by 
> calling out road hazards and taking my turn leading the group so the ride 
> leaders can rest. I love all the scenery and the wildlife and the crops. We 
> see animals and flowers and lakes on every ride. It’s a feast for the eyes, 
> and I love that I can sit upright to fully see and appreciate them. I look 
> down at my raspberry bike and I love that we get to do this together. The 
> camaraderie is enjoyable; it is good to be with bike people, even if they 
> don’t understand your choice of bike. I’m no longer self-conscious when I 
> roll up at the start of the ride. I don’t feel pressure to wear clicky 
> shoes or a jersey; I’m there with my Grant Safety Triangle and my Target 
> workout wear and my Keen sandals and I don’t feel inadequate. 
>
> I still get comments on nearly every ride about how much my bike weighs or 
> how fast I *could* be if only I had a real road bike, but I weather them 
> pretty well and only send comebacks to the most egregious offenders. This 
> will always happen at the end of the ride, after we sprint to the parking 
> lot. Some guy will come find me at my vehicle and tell me how I’m doing it 
> wrong. After getting lectured about how I could go 25% faster if I had this 
> bike and narrow tires, blah, blah, I say, “Well, I just beat you, so I 
> don’t think my bike is the problem.”  This is now my standard response. But 
> I smile when I say it. Seeing that I will not be parted from my Racing 
> Platypus, some have now moved onto my heavy Hydroflask. I carry 40 oz of 
> water in a stainless steel Hydroflask and they can’t get over me lugging 
> all that extra weight along. Also, they want to know if it is orange juice 
> in there. Oh, whatever. 
>
> I laugh, and they laugh and we ride on.
>
> Leah
> (Pictures attached, but only of the women’s rides, because they are the 
> only group who will stop for a photo op!)
> On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 9:27:43 PM UTC-4 Max S wrote:
>
>> As many / most of you know, carbon fiber composites have been in 
>> structural applications in aerospace and other fields for decades. That 
>> said, the frequency and thoroughness of regular inspections (and 
>> replacement) carried out in those applications is perhaps beyond what a 
>> typical cyclist is willing to do. But here's a couple of nice videos that 
>> demonstrate the durability of CF bike parts: 
>>
>> Danny MacAskill Tests Santa Cruz Reserve Carbon Wheels: 
>> https://youtu.be/VfjjiHGuHoc 
>>
>> Carbon vs Aluminum Frames - Which is Stronger? (you can skip to 1:40 

[RBW] Re: WTB: Nitto Fillet FacePlanter 4 bolt quill stem 25.4mm clamp 60mm or 85mm or Jim Stem

[brizbarn]

Bumping this back up.  I see they have restocked these.  Still interested 
in a trade or to buy a used one to save some $.  Let me know if you have a 
85mm face plater stem.  Thanks, Brian

On Friday, September 2, 2022 at 10:50:22 PM UTC-7 brizbarn wrote:

> Anyone looking to sell or trade a Nitto Fillet FacePlanter - Quill stem - 
> 25.4mm bar clamp?  Considering 60mm or 85mm.  This the 4 bolt design that 
> Riv does. Would also consider a Jim Stem (4 bolt) in 85mm length, 25.4mm 
> clamp.  pic for reference from riv site.  I have a new Nitto Periscopa 80mm 
> length 25.4mm clamp stem that has been installed and ridden a few miles 
> that I'd consider trading.
> want:[image: st2quill-31f.jpg]
> have:
> [image: image.jpeg]
> Feel free to reply here or with a direct message. Thanks.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Club Rides On A Racing Platypus

[Karl Wilcox]

But aren’t carbon rims ridiculously expensive?

On Monday, August 15, 2022, Max S  wrote:

> Patrick,
>
> This is a deeply and widely explored topic. There are some numbers and
> graphs to look at here:  https://www.wheelscience.com/pages/aero-v-weight
> In my personal experience, deep rims can save me ~10-20 watts, depending
> on how fast and where I ride. So, it can get me from 16.5 to 17.0 mph or to
> 17.5 mph average over a 50 mile ride on our local gravel roads, for
> example.
> If those rims are carbon, that nets a 1.3-1.5 kg wheelset that is both
> aerodynamic AND sturdy. If I try to hit that weight mark with aluminum
> rims, I get a less aerodynamic and a flimsier wheelset.
> Speaking for myself, the upshot of running deep dish carbon wheels is that
> they let me give up an hour of sleep the night before to keep up with my
> riding pal... But if you're riding by yourself, and your sleep hygiene is
> good, and you're eating right, and you're not checking the local rankings
> on various "segments" on Strava, it doesn't make much difference.
> Well, no, let me take that back. What I've discovered of late in riding
> gravel roads is that half of my aluminum rims have developed dents, whereas
> the carbon wheels have not. I'm not a particularly heavy rider and I like
> to think I'm a careful rider. But running the same size tires on carbon
> wheels seems to not result in the same number of dents. Now this will
> probably at some point turn into a chipped / delaminated section on that
> carbon rim, but for now, they seem to suffer fewer of those dents.
> Carbon frames and forks do save a significant amount of weight – expect
> about 2-3 lbs saved over a similarly sized steel frame & fork, especially
> from Rivendell. The weight is felt on the hills – about 10 seconds per mile
> of climbing at 4-5% gradients, in my experience, but I could be
> mis-remembering. It's easy to stick two extra 2-liter soda bottles in your
> saddlebag and test the effect quantitatively and qualitatively for yourself.
> If the above makes me sound like a carbon apologist, I'll say that all my
> bikes have steel frames and forks, and most have aluminum rims. I just
> prefer those for now, for a variety of reasons. But sometimes I do ride
> carbon wheels and enjoy the looks and the very very slight speed benefits,
> and noticeable durability benefits for some aspects of my riding.
>
> - Max "who should be working on getting more sleep rather than re-gluing
> his tires" in A2
> On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 12:30:36 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Pretty Sotherland, and that's one of the most interesting head badges
>> I've seen. The motto in full is "Sans peur et sans reproche" -- "Without
>> fear and without blame" or generally, "Beyond fear and reproach," the motto
>> of the ideal knight of chivalry.
>>
>> I'm just asking this (of the group) and not reproaching: Do carbon fork
>> and aero carbon fiber wheels make that much of a difference over a good
>> steel fork and say lightweight tubulars or RH extralight clinchers at less
>> than race speeds?
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 12, 2022 at 2:03 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
>> jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Today was a women’s ride. 29 miles at over 16 mph, and it was great.
>>> Such a nice group of women. Many of them ride TO the ride, and then ride
>>> home again. I come from the opposite end of the city, so I am always stuck
>>> driving. Anyway, I have some photos but first let’s take a minute to
>>> appreciate this lugged, steel bike that belongs to my ride leader. You’ll
>>> see her decals say “Sotherland.” That does happen to be her name, yes, but
>>> it is also the builder’s name. John Sotherland used to build the Rivendell
>>> frames in the Waterford days; he has since opened his own shop. John is a
>>> brother-in-law to my ride leader, and he made her this beautiful pink and
>>> white fade bike in 1988. This is the original paint job. I did not have
>>> time to ask about the fork, but aren’t her chainstays interesting? We were
>>> pulled over on a highway waiting for a rider to fix her flat, so I
>>> hurriedly took these few shots.
>>>
>>> Save this one bike, all the rest were carbon.
>>> Leah
>>>
>>
>> [image: image.png]
>>
>>
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Re: [RBW] Heat in the Bay

[Karl Wilcox]

Yes, 114 is extremely rare in the East Bay, but I live up in the hills of
the North Bay (Napa Valley) and while we were told by media that our high
was 112, my weather station under my covered front porch (shade) indicated
a high of 91 degrees.  I also did my 30 mile ride with a six mile climb at
12.00 noon, and did not ‘feel’ like I was climbing in extreme heat.  These
numbers have been exaggerated all week, but maybe these are urban temps;
not rural.

On Friday, September 9, 2022, George Schick  wrote:

> Just got a regular email from Will announcing bike frame availability
> among other things.  "Other things" include his comment that last Tuesday
> the temps reached 114 degrees!!?  Isn't that a rare temperature for the Bay
> area in NoCal?
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/
> msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/d8b16967-8522-41b6-a7f6-
> 1d44e02d4f1en%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>

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Re: [RBW] Heat in the Bay

['Eric Norris' via RBW Owners Bunch]

According to local news, temps have been about 15 degrees higher than normal 
this week in the Sacramento area. Bay Area has been hot too, but usually about 
30 degrees cooler than Sacto. That’s why I headed in that direction today to 
ride—just too hot locally (combined with bad air quality due to wildfires in 
the area).

–Eric N


> On Sep 9, 2022, at 4:49 PM, George Schick  wrote:
> 
> Just got a regular email from Will announcing bike frame availability among 
> other things.  "Other things" include his comment that last Tuesday the temps 
> reached 114 degrees!!?  Isn't that a rare temperature for the Bay area in 
> NoCal?
> 
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[RBW] Re: TK's Custom

[Berkeleyan]

54 cm Noodles? Good grief... them er sum wide bars! I thought my 48's were 
a skosh wide, but wow... I'll bet they squeak a bit, with so much leverage.

- Andrew, Berkeley

On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 4:50:37 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Check this out from the latest Riv email, it looks like mine! I also got 
> my paint inspiration from Mark Abele's custom, this one is a little darker 
> than mine and closer to Mark's. So pretty. 
>
>
> https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/news/tks-custom?mc_cid=1ae4dd7598_eid=6ddd470367
>

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[RBW] TK's Custom

[Joe Bernard]

Check this out from the latest Riv email, it looks like mine! I also got my 
paint inspiration from Mark Abele's custom, this one is a little darker 
than mine and closer to Mark's. So pretty. 

https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/news/tks-custom?mc_cid=1ae4dd7598_eid=6ddd470367

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[RBW] Heat in the Bay

[George Schick]

Just got a regular email from Will announcing bike frame availability among 
other things.  "Other things" include his comment that last Tuesday the 
temps reached 114 degrees!!?  Isn't that a rare temperature for the Bay 
area in NoCal?

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[RBW] Re: Advantages of front loading

[Will M]

I have a 1990s Cannondale adventure tourer with low-trail fork. With the 
low riders (and front panniers), it's as stable as a motorcycle, no matter how 
much I overload the rear panniers 
.
  
Influenced by Grant's *Riv Readers *of the late aughts, I removed the low 
riders for a two-strut Nitto front rack and Wald 139 
.
  
Don't notice so much difference from the higher center of gravity, but the 
wobbliness of the lower-capacity Nitto rack...

Will M 

On Wednesday, September 7, 2022 at 12:37:41 PM UTC-4 J J wrote:

> This is such an interesting thread. I found myself nodding my head reading 
> John Rinker's note. I bought my Hunq new in 2012, and I never thought about 
> trail per se until 3 or 4 years ago when it seemed trail was in the air, 
> everywhere I turned, and everyone was talking about it. Maybe it's 
> something particular to the Hunqapillar compared with other frames, but 
> I've never felt a need to ruminate over what I had on a front rack or rear 
> rack, balancing loads, whatever. I just never had to think about it. It has 
> always felt stable whether the front was loaded with nothing in the rear, 
> or vice versa, or both front and rear were loaded, or without any load at 
> all. That's not to say that hauling a good sized watermelon on the front 
> rack — which is common for me during the season — doesn't change handling 
> characteristics. It certainly does, but not anywhere close to a degree that 
> I find uncomfortable or problematic at all. I carry what I need to carry, I 
> do what I need to do, and my riding adjusts and compensates accordingly, 
> with little thought about it. It's natural. Anyway, I think we are 
> constantly adjusting how we ride due to varying surfaces, wind patterns, 
> energy or fatigue level, tire pressure, how our muscles and brains feel, 
> elevation, and so on. There are countless dynamic variables that affect 
> handling, requiring us to adjust and readjust on the fly and then we get 
> momentum. On the Hunq, for me at least, the net outcome is a sense of 
> stability, comfort, and confidence regardless of how much I am hauling or 
> where the haul is positioned on the bike. 
>
> Except when I experienced a puzzling shimmy. The handlebar would vibrate 
> and swing wildly back and forth at speed if I removed one or both hands 
> from the bar. The oscillation was palpable, annoying, and very much out of 
> character for the bike. It  was not related to any front or rear load 
> dynamics, nor to any lights, bells, or mirror mounted to the handlebar. The 
> shimmy would diminish a bit if I touched either leg to the top tub or 
> diagonal tube, but not completely. I bought an IRD double roller bearing 
> headset thinking it might solve the problem (Rivendell was out of stock of 
> their Tange/IRD NeedL BlastR at the time). But before having the new one 
> installed, I reached out to Rivendell to ask about shimmy. In typical 
> transparent and helpful fashion, Grant and Mark both said (paraphrasing): 
> sometimes shimmy happens for no apparent or solvable reason. Bike physics 
> and dynamics are super complicated. Keep your hands on the bar, don't ride 
> ride no-handedly! Try removing the racks (it didn't help). 
>
> Finally Grant said, no need to spend money on a new headset. It doesn't 
> always solve the problem. Try heavier grease in your headset, and tighten 
> it down more than you normally would. You're not after "buttery smooth" 
> movement. You want some friction and resistance. It won't interfere with 
> steering. 
>
> Sure enough, these simple steps completely eliminated the shimmy. 
> Stability returned to the Hunq! 
>
> I wished I had contacted Riv before I bought the new headset. It's a nice 
> piece of kit, now taking up space in the parts bin. 
>  
>
> On Wednesday, September 7, 2022 at 5:47:55 AM UTC-4 ascpgh wrote:
>
>> I loaded my Rambouillet with a Caradice Nelson Longflap when new to do a 
>> credit card camping take on the TranAm/Western Flyer route from Norfolk, VA 
>> to SF, CA via Pueblo, CO starting in early May. It was perfect, although I 
>> could see being a bit more prepared for contingencies (more stuff) would be 
>> good, but I was within tolerance range of the Rivendale stated optimal max 
>> load. All the good handling attributes felt like they were  without damping 
>> by the rear load which in fairness was in front of the rear hub. I dare say 
>> every Rivendell model is different and presents a varying capacity by 
>> design for carrying loads on the front. Those that are more able in total 
>> still have an order by which you add your increments (bags and contents) of 
>> load as you close in on your total. 
>>
>> Fast forward a decade, I joined a group of Riv riders on the GAP starting 
>> at Cumberland, MD in April. The food and drink needs of the route 

Re: [RBW] Re: Bosco vs. Boscomoose

[Joe Bernard]

Definitely ride it for a while before deciding. I just tilted my Billies up 
this week, it's probably the same angle my Boscomoose was now! 

On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 3:49:22 PM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

> My judgement is likely a bit premature. I failed to mention that my Bosco 
> was 550 wide, the ‘moose 580. I did notice the solid feel straight away 
> although the FacePlater is very secure. Nice to have options.:)
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sep 9, 2022, at 6:37 PM, J J  wrote:
>
> I have a Boscomoose on my Hunq. I guess I'm fortunate that the fixed tilt 
> angle works very well for me. I had run the regular Bosco with a stem, and 
> it felt less secure than the triangulated and reinforced Boscomoose, no 
> matter how tightly I clamped the stem to the bar (and you can only go so 
> tight anyway). 
>
>
> So tilt adjustments aside, the Boscomoose feels more stable, stiffer, less 
> flexy, and certainly has less unwanted movement than the separate bar and 
> stem combo, especially on bumpy terrain and any riding that requires weight 
> on the bar. This is probably a much more significant consideration for 
> those of us who weigh more than 210 than it is for folks lighter than that.
>
> On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 5:27:40 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> I also learned this with the exact bars you're comparing. Bars that can't 
>> be adjusted for tilt are always a crapshoot and you're probably going to 
>> lose that bet unless the front end is really slack like a Clem or 
>> Gus/Susie. My custom IS that slack and they worked ok for me, but I still 
>> preferred the regular Bosco (which I then sold for a Billie, but that's 
>> another thread). 
>>
>> Joe Bernard 
>>
>> On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 2:11:45 PM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Or, when to leave well enough alone? I recently traded my 650 wide Tosco 
>>> for a 550 wide Bosco. This worked to let me achieve a higher bar without 
>>> exposing more stem & even gave me the flexibility of lowering the stem a 
>>> smidge. The narrower width gave me a more natural feeling wrist angle and 
>>> overall felt much more comfortable without loosing any control. I liked it 
>>> so much that it really made me want to try a Boscomoose. 
>>> I am really interested in any others thoughts who may have compared the 
>>> Bosco & Boscomoose. My observations; even though the "extension" of the 
>>> 'moose is 120mm vs. my Faceplater's 135mm, there is in reality only 5mm 
>>> difference. This I assume is due to the upward angle of the Faceplater 
>>> extension - effectively shortening it. In any event the reach to the bar 
>>> ends is quite different. With the exact 120mm of exposed stem the bar ends 
>>> of the 'moose are nearly 2" higher than the Bosco! This I presume is mostly 
>>> due to the more horizontal & fixed angle nature of the grip areas - they do 
>>> not tilt down very much.
>>> I will probably play with these a bit more but unless I stumble on to 
>>> some adjustment magic I will be returning to the Bosco / Faceplater combo. 
>>> I had really high hopes for the Boscomoose because it just looks so cool.
>>>
>> -- 
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>  
> 
> .
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Bosco vs. Boscomoose

[Richard Rose]

My judgement is likely a bit premature. I failed to mention that my Bosco was 
550 wide, the ‘moose 580. I did notice the solid feel straight away although 
the FacePlater is very secure. Nice to have options.:)

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 9, 2022, at 6:37 PM, J J  wrote:
> 
> I have a Boscomoose on my Hunq. I guess I'm fortunate that the fixed tilt 
> angle works very well for me. I had run the regular Bosco with a stem, and it 
> felt less secure than the triangulated and reinforced Boscomoose, no matter 
> how tightly I clamped the stem to the bar (and you can only go so tight 
> anyway). 
> 
> So tilt adjustments aside, the Boscomoose feels more stable, stiffer, less 
> flexy, and certainly has less unwanted movement than the separate bar and 
> stem combo, especially on bumpy terrain and any riding that requires weight 
> on the bar. This is probably a much more significant consideration for those 
> of us who weigh more than 210 than it is for folks lighter than that.
> 
>> On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 5:27:40 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>> I also learned this with the exact bars you're comparing. Bars that can't be 
>> adjusted for tilt are always a crapshoot and you're probably going to lose 
>> that bet unless the front end is really slack like a Clem or Gus/Susie. My 
>> custom IS that slack and they worked ok for me, but I still preferred the 
>> regular Bosco (which I then sold for a Billie, but that's another thread). 
>> 
>> Joe Bernard 
>> 
>>> On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 2:11:45 PM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> Or, when to leave well enough alone? I recently traded my 650 wide Tosco 
>>> for a 550 wide Bosco. This worked to let me achieve a higher bar without 
>>> exposing more stem & even gave me the flexibility of lowering the stem a 
>>> smidge. The narrower width gave me a more natural feeling wrist angle and 
>>> overall felt much more comfortable without loosing any control. I liked it 
>>> so much that it really made me want to try a Boscomoose. 
>>> I am really interested in any others thoughts who may have compared the 
>>> Bosco & Boscomoose. My observations; even though the "extension" of the 
>>> 'moose is 120mm vs. my Faceplater's 135mm, there is in reality only 5mm 
>>> difference. This I assume is due to the upward angle of the Faceplater 
>>> extension - effectively shortening it. In any event the reach to the bar 
>>> ends is quite different. With the exact 120mm of exposed stem the bar ends 
>>> of the 'moose are nearly 2" higher than the Bosco! This I presume is mostly 
>>> due to the more horizontal & fixed angle nature of the grip areas - they do 
>>> not tilt down very much.
>>> I will probably play with these a bit more but unless I stumble on to some 
>>> adjustment magic I will be returning to the Bosco / Faceplater combo. I had 
>>> really high hopes for the Boscomoose because it just looks so cool.
> 
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[RBW] Re: Bosco vs. Boscomoose

[J J]

I have a Boscomoose on my Hunq. I guess I'm fortunate that the fixed tilt 
angle works very well for me. I had run the regular Bosco with a stem, and 
it felt less secure than the triangulated and reinforced Boscomoose, no 
matter how tightly I clamped the stem to the bar (and you can only go so 
tight anyway). 

So tilt adjustments aside, the Boscomoose feels more stable, stiffer, less 
flexy, and certainly has less unwanted movement than the separate bar and 
stem combo, especially on bumpy terrain and any riding that requires weight 
on the bar. This is probably a much more significant consideration for 
those of us who weigh more than 210 than it is for folks lighter than that.

On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 5:27:40 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:

> I also learned this with the exact bars you're comparing. Bars that can't 
> be adjusted for tilt are always a crapshoot and you're probably going to 
> lose that bet unless the front end is really slack like a Clem or 
> Gus/Susie. My custom IS that slack and they worked ok for me, but I still 
> preferred the regular Bosco (which I then sold for a Billie, but that's 
> another thread). 
>
> Joe Bernard 
>
> On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 2:11:45 PM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Or, when to leave well enough alone? I recently traded my 650 wide Tosco 
>> for a 550 wide Bosco. This worked to let me achieve a higher bar without 
>> exposing more stem & even gave me the flexibility of lowering the stem a 
>> smidge. The narrower width gave me a more natural feeling wrist angle and 
>> overall felt much more comfortable without loosing any control. I liked it 
>> so much that it really made me want to try a Boscomoose. 
>> I am really interested in any others thoughts who may have compared the 
>> Bosco & Boscomoose. My observations; even though the "extension" of the 
>> 'moose is 120mm vs. my Faceplater's 135mm, there is in reality only 5mm 
>> difference. This I assume is due to the upward angle of the Faceplater 
>> extension - effectively shortening it. In any event the reach to the bar 
>> ends is quite different. With the exact 120mm of exposed stem the bar ends 
>> of the 'moose are nearly 2" higher than the Bosco! This I presume is mostly 
>> due to the more horizontal & fixed angle nature of the grip areas - they do 
>> not tilt down very much.
>> I will probably play with these a bit more but unless I stumble on to 
>> some adjustment magic I will be returning to the Bosco / Faceplater combo. 
>> I had really high hopes for the Boscomoose because it just looks so cool.
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Bike Hoist recommendation needed

[Roberta]

Or, perhaps Laing's suggest is a great one--hook around tire rims on both 
front and back...

I know accounting software...not so good at physics.

On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 5:33:52 PM UTC-4 Roberta wrote:

> Wow, such positive feedback on this item!  To me, all these pulley items 
> looked the same.  I could put one around my stem and one on the seatpost or 
> that area where all the tubes meet at the top of the seatpost.  Or wherever 
> the group suggests.  Strength is not my strength and I'll need to pull and 
> lower the bike by myself.  I'm looking forward to finding that video.  I 
> did see some pictures.
>
> Laing, I never thought of hooking it somewhere else (knock me on the 
> forehead)! perhaps higher than the tire suggestion, like on the 
> toptube/seat tub intersection so all the weight is below that point.
>
> I'll be having an handyman install it, but I have to let him know what to 
> install.
>
> Roberta
>
> On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 3:19:17 PM UTC-4 row.n.2...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Google ...Tie Boss. no  ratchets
>> Easy to operate.
>> Watch video
>> Jon
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 9, 2022, 7:42 AM Roberta  wrote:
>>
>>> I have one a tower leaner bike rack in my 3 ft wide covered breezeway, 
>>> where I store my bikes parallel to the wall, one bike on top hooks, one 
>>> sitting on the floor.  The bottom handlebar sticks out, so I've learned to 
>>> turn sideways to pass it.  The issue is there just isn't enough room or 
>>> strength for me to pick up a bike and raise it to the top hooks.  I'm 
>>> working on the strength part.
>>>
>>> I was thinking of getting a bike hoist system for the top bike to 
>>> replace the leaner rack.  I'm not keen on the ones that hook on the 
>>> saddle.  I could just see it poking holes thru my Brooks B68. Another 
>>> option is to just use the hoist system to get the bike to the hooks on the 
>>> rack and then release the pressure on the saddle.
>>>
>>> Does anyone have recommendations for a hoist that doesn't hook to the 
>>> saddle?  I do not have any other room other than parallel to the wall to 
>>> put the bikes.  I am not strong enough to lift the bikes to a ceiling 
>>> hook.  Not enough room to have them perpendicular to the wall with hooks.
>>>
>>> Bikes are anywhere from 28-35 pounds loaded and each gets ridden at 
>>> least once a week.  Budget is $50-100, but would spend more for a great 
>>> solution.  (Right now, my "top" bike is parked in my living room.).  I have 
>>> one A Homer Hilsen (most likely for top position since its a diamond frame) 
>>> Platypus mixte and another grocery getter/commuter mixte.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Roberta 
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/04bf0345-49e1-4acc-ad1d-90f4cfe64da6n%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Bike Hoist recommendation needed

[Roberta]

Wow, such positive feedback on this item!  To me, all these pulley items 
looked the same.  I could put one around my stem and one on the seatpost or 
that area where all the tubes meet at the top of the seatpost.  Or wherever 
the group suggests.  Strength is not my strength and I'll need to pull and 
lower the bike by myself.  I'm looking forward to finding that video.  I 
did see some pictures.

Laing, I never thought of hooking it somewhere else (knock me on the 
forehead)! perhaps higher than the tire suggestion, like on the 
toptube/seat tub intersection so all the weight is below that point.

I'll be having an handyman install it, but I have to let him know what to 
install.

Roberta

On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 3:19:17 PM UTC-4 row.n.2...@gmail.com wrote:

> Google ...Tie Boss. no  ratchets
> Easy to operate.
> Watch video
> Jon
>
> On Fri, Sep 9, 2022, 7:42 AM Roberta  wrote:
>
>> I have one a tower leaner bike rack in my 3 ft wide covered breezeway, 
>> where I store my bikes parallel to the wall, one bike on top hooks, one 
>> sitting on the floor.  The bottom handlebar sticks out, so I've learned to 
>> turn sideways to pass it.  The issue is there just isn't enough room or 
>> strength for me to pick up a bike and raise it to the top hooks.  I'm 
>> working on the strength part.
>>
>> I was thinking of getting a bike hoist system for the top bike to replace 
>> the leaner rack.  I'm not keen on the ones that hook on the saddle.  I 
>> could just see it poking holes thru my Brooks B68. Another option is to 
>> just use the hoist system to get the bike to the hooks on the rack and then 
>> release the pressure on the saddle.
>>
>> Does anyone have recommendations for a hoist that doesn't hook to the 
>> saddle?  I do not have any other room other than parallel to the wall to 
>> put the bikes.  I am not strong enough to lift the bikes to a ceiling 
>> hook.  Not enough room to have them perpendicular to the wall with hooks.
>>
>> Bikes are anywhere from 28-35 pounds loaded and each gets ridden at least 
>> once a week.  Budget is $50-100, but would spend more for a great 
>> solution.  (Right now, my "top" bike is parked in my living room.).  I have 
>> one A Homer Hilsen (most likely for top position since its a diamond frame) 
>> Platypus mixte and another grocery getter/commuter mixte.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Roberta 
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/04bf0345-49e1-4acc-ad1d-90f4cfe64da6n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Bosco vs. Boscomoose

[Joe Bernard]

I also learned this with the exact bars you're comparing. Bars that can't 
be adjusted for tilt are always a crapshoot and you're probably going to 
lose that bet unless the front end is really slack like a Clem or 
Gus/Susie. My custom IS that slack and they worked ok for me, but I still 
preferred the regular Bosco (which I then sold for a Billie, but that's 
another thread). 

Joe Bernard 

On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 2:11:45 PM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

> Or, when to leave well enough alone? I recently traded my 650 wide Tosco 
> for a 550 wide Bosco. This worked to let me achieve a higher bar without 
> exposing more stem & even gave me the flexibility of lowering the stem a 
> smidge. The narrower width gave me a more natural feeling wrist angle and 
> overall felt much more comfortable without loosing any control. I liked it 
> so much that it really made me want to try a Boscomoose. 
> I am really interested in any others thoughts who may have compared the 
> Bosco & Boscomoose. My observations; even though the "extension" of the 
> 'moose is 120mm vs. my Faceplater's 135mm, there is in reality only 5mm 
> difference. This I assume is due to the upward angle of the Faceplater 
> extension - effectively shortening it. In any event the reach to the bar 
> ends is quite different. With the exact 120mm of exposed stem the bar ends 
> of the 'moose are nearly 2" higher than the Bosco! This I presume is mostly 
> due to the more horizontal & fixed angle nature of the grip areas - they do 
> not tilt down very much.
> I will probably play with these a bit more but unless I stumble on to some 
> adjustment magic I will be returning to the Bosco / Faceplater combo. I had 
> really high hopes for the Boscomoose because it just looks so cool.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Bike Hoist recommendation needed

[Jon Dukeman]

I've been eyeing them too.


On Fri, Sep 9, 2022, 2:36 PM Garth  wrote:

> Tie Boss looks like The Boss !   All you need above is 2 storage hooks
> screwed into solid wood. Great tip Jon !
> On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 4:05:59 PM UTC-4 lconley wrote:
>
>> Can you just hook the rear hooks to the top of the rear wheel instead of
>> the seat?
>>
>> Or bend the rear hooks outward so that they only grab the seat rails? Or
>> put a tye-wrap (or two) around the seat rails and lift by the tye-wrap(s).
>>
>> Harbor freight has a version for $10. Sometimes their stuff works just
>> fine, and there are so many stores that you can usually go look at it
>> before you buy.
>>
>> Laing
>>
>> On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 9:41:57 AM UTC-4 Roberta wrote:
>>
>>> I have one a tower leaner bike rack in my 3 ft wide covered breezeway,
>>> where I store my bikes parallel to the wall, one bike on top hooks, one
>>> sitting on the floor.  The bottom handlebar sticks out, so I've learned to
>>> turn sideways to pass it.  The issue is there just isn't enough room or
>>> strength for me to pick up a bike and raise it to the top hooks.  I'm
>>> working on the strength part.
>>>
>>> I was thinking of getting a bike hoist system for the top bike to
>>> replace the leaner rack.  I'm not keen on the ones that hook on the
>>> saddle.  I could just see it poking holes thru my Brooks B68. Another
>>> option is to just use the hoist system to get the bike to the hooks on the
>>> rack and then release the pressure on the saddle.
>>>
>>> Does anyone have recommendations for a hoist that doesn't hook to the
>>> saddle?  I do not have any other room other than parallel to the wall to
>>> put the bikes.  I am not strong enough to lift the bikes to a ceiling
>>> hook.  Not enough room to have them perpendicular to the wall with hooks.
>>>
>>> Bikes are anywhere from 28-35 pounds loaded and each gets ridden at
>>> least once a week.  Budget is $50-100, but would spend more for a great
>>> solution.  (Right now, my "top" bike is parked in my living room.).  I have
>>> one A Homer Hilsen (most likely for top position since its a diamond frame)
>>> Platypus mixte and another grocery getter/commuter mixte.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Roberta
>>>
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> .
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[RBW] Bosco vs. Boscomoose

[Richard Rose]

Or, when to leave well enough alone? I recently traded my 650 wide Tosco 
for a 550 wide Bosco. This worked to let me achieve a higher bar without 
exposing more stem & even gave me the flexibility of lowering the stem a 
smidge. The narrower width gave me a more natural feeling wrist angle and 
overall felt much more comfortable without loosing any control. I liked it 
so much that it really made me want to try a Boscomoose. 
I am really interested in any others thoughts who may have compared the 
Bosco & Boscomoose. My observations; even though the "extension" of the 
'moose is 120mm vs. my Faceplater's 135mm, there is in reality only 5mm 
difference. This I assume is due to the upward angle of the Faceplater 
extension - effectively shortening it. In any event the reach to the bar 
ends is quite different. With the exact 120mm of exposed stem the bar ends 
of the 'moose are nearly 2" higher than the Bosco! This I presume is mostly 
due to the more horizontal & fixed angle nature of the grip areas - they do 
not tilt down very much.
I will probably play with these a bit more but unless I stumble on to some 
adjustment magic I will be returning to the Bosco / Faceplater combo. I had 
really high hopes for the Boscomoose because it just looks so cool.

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Re: [RBW] Rivendell Baggage For Sale

[Joe Bernard]

Oh, it's one of those square handlebar bags Riv used to sell. On drop bars 
you would wrap the rear hook-and-loop straps either side of the stem, then 
rig up something with those front straps to loop around the brake lever 
hoods. Resting the bottom on a front rack is good, too! 

On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 1:18:05 PM UTC-7 Karl wrote:

> If Joe cannot figure it out... I am in trouble! Try these. I would think 
> it would work well on a front platform...
>
> [image: IMG_5077 Medium.jpeg][image: IMG_5078 Medium.jpeg][image: 
> IMG_5079 Medium.jpeg]
>
> On Sep 9, 2022, at 2:54 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
> I appreciate your struggle to figure out what's going on with the rack 
> bag, I canNOT deduce the size or how it mounts from those pics. Hey Karl, 
> can you show it to us sitting on a rack? 
>
> On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 11:55:37 AM UTC-7 greenteadrinkers wrote:
>
>> Would you know if #9 is sized to fit on top of something like a Marks 
>> Rack? Looks like it could be an early trunk sack? Thx! Scott
>>
>> On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 2:45:54 PM UTC-4 Karl wrote:
>>
>>> There are some places I circled where it attaches to the rack. I’ve 
>>> never used it, and cannot remember when I bought it off the list! Hope that 
>>> helps
>>>
>>> [image: image0.jpeg]
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Sep 9, 2022, at 1:39 PM, greenteadrinkers  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Curious how bag #9 mounts to a rack? thx! Scott
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 2:20:48 PM UTC-4 Karl wrote:
>>>
 Needing to dramatically downsize my "stuff" so, first post is my 
 Rivendell Bags I have had collecting dust and Golden Retriever hair! If 
 interested, please note the number on the photo for the bag when replying. 
 Let me know if I am crazy high on pricing. More fun stuff to come 
 (Quickbeam wheels, Paul brakes, etc!) Thanks All!

 Photos Here 

 #1- Duluth Candy Bar Bag- Some spotting. Good shape- $50 shipped

 #2- Baggins Candy Bar Bag- Some beausage- $40 Shipped

 #3- Baggins Banana-ish Bag- Shorter “tail” than other banana I have. 
 Also, this has a zipper- $50 shipped

 #4- Baggins Little Joe (Pretty sure) Hole in bottom, but still has some 
 miles- $50 shipped

 #5- Sackville Musette Bag- $40 Shipped

 #6- Sackville Big Bag (Don’t remember the model)- $120 Shipped

 #7- Sackville Big Bag (Also.. Don’t remember the model)- $120 Shipped

 #8- Baggins Adam (?)- Good shape- $100 Shipped

 #9- Rivendell Vegan Rack Bag- $30 Shipped

 Karl in Nashville, TN

>>>
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>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>>
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> 
> .
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Bike Hoist recommendation needed

[Garth]

Tie Boss looks like The Boss !   All you need above is 2 storage hooks 
screwed into solid wood. Great tip Jon !
On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 4:05:59 PM UTC-4 lconley wrote:

> Can you just hook the rear hooks to the top of the rear wheel instead of 
> the seat?
>
> Or bend the rear hooks outward so that they only grab the seat rails? Or 
> put a tye-wrap (or two) around the seat rails and lift by the tye-wrap(s).
>
> Harbor freight has a version for $10. Sometimes their stuff works just 
> fine, and there are so many stores that you can usually go look at it 
> before you buy.
>
> Laing
>
> On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 9:41:57 AM UTC-4 Roberta wrote:
>
>> I have one a tower leaner bike rack in my 3 ft wide covered breezeway, 
>> where I store my bikes parallel to the wall, one bike on top hooks, one 
>> sitting on the floor.  The bottom handlebar sticks out, so I've learned to 
>> turn sideways to pass it.  The issue is there just isn't enough room or 
>> strength for me to pick up a bike and raise it to the top hooks.  I'm 
>> working on the strength part.
>>
>> I was thinking of getting a bike hoist system for the top bike to replace 
>> the leaner rack.  I'm not keen on the ones that hook on the saddle.  I 
>> could just see it poking holes thru my Brooks B68. Another option is to 
>> just use the hoist system to get the bike to the hooks on the rack and then 
>> release the pressure on the saddle.
>>
>> Does anyone have recommendations for a hoist that doesn't hook to the 
>> saddle?  I do not have any other room other than parallel to the wall to 
>> put the bikes.  I am not strong enough to lift the bikes to a ceiling 
>> hook.  Not enough room to have them perpendicular to the wall with hooks.
>>
>> Bikes are anywhere from 28-35 pounds loaded and each gets ridden at least 
>> once a week.  Budget is $50-100, but would spend more for a great 
>> solution.  (Right now, my "top" bike is parked in my living room.).  I have 
>> one A Homer Hilsen (most likely for top position since its a diamond frame) 
>> Platypus mixte and another grocery getter/commuter mixte.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Roberta 
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Bike Hoist recommendation needed

[lconley]

Can you just hook the rear hooks to the top of the rear wheel instead of 
the seat?

Or bend the rear hooks outward so that they only grab the seat rails? Or 
put a tye-wrap (or two) around the seat rails and lift by the tye-wrap(s).

Harbor freight has a version for $10. Sometimes their stuff works just 
fine, and there are so many stores that you can usually go look at it 
before you buy.

Laing

On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 9:41:57 AM UTC-4 Roberta wrote:

> I have one a tower leaner bike rack in my 3 ft wide covered breezeway, 
> where I store my bikes parallel to the wall, one bike on top hooks, one 
> sitting on the floor.  The bottom handlebar sticks out, so I've learned to 
> turn sideways to pass it.  The issue is there just isn't enough room or 
> strength for me to pick up a bike and raise it to the top hooks.  I'm 
> working on the strength part.
>
> I was thinking of getting a bike hoist system for the top bike to replace 
> the leaner rack.  I'm not keen on the ones that hook on the saddle.  I 
> could just see it poking holes thru my Brooks B68. Another option is to 
> just use the hoist system to get the bike to the hooks on the rack and then 
> release the pressure on the saddle.
>
> Does anyone have recommendations for a hoist that doesn't hook to the 
> saddle?  I do not have any other room other than parallel to the wall to 
> put the bikes.  I am not strong enough to lift the bikes to a ceiling 
> hook.  Not enough room to have them perpendicular to the wall with hooks.
>
> Bikes are anywhere from 28-35 pounds loaded and each gets ridden at least 
> once a week.  Budget is $50-100, but would spend more for a great 
> solution.  (Right now, my "top" bike is parked in my living room.).  I have 
> one A Homer Hilsen (most likely for top position since its a diamond frame) 
> Platypus mixte and another grocery getter/commuter mixte.
>
> Thanks,
> Roberta 
>

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Re: [RBW] Bike Hoist recommendation needed

[Jon Dukeman]

tieboss.com

On Fri, Sep 9, 2022, 1:18 PM Jon Dukeman  wrote:

> Google ...Tie Boss. no  ratchets
> Easy to operate.
> Watch video
> Jon
>
> On Fri, Sep 9, 2022, 7:42 AM Roberta  wrote:
>
>> I have one a tower leaner bike rack in my 3 ft wide covered breezeway,
>> where I store my bikes parallel to the wall, one bike on top hooks, one
>> sitting on the floor.  The bottom handlebar sticks out, so I've learned to
>> turn sideways to pass it.  The issue is there just isn't enough room or
>> strength for me to pick up a bike and raise it to the top hooks.  I'm
>> working on the strength part.
>>
>> I was thinking of getting a bike hoist system for the top bike to replace
>> the leaner rack.  I'm not keen on the ones that hook on the saddle.  I
>> could just see it poking holes thru my Brooks B68. Another option is to
>> just use the hoist system to get the bike to the hooks on the rack and then
>> release the pressure on the saddle.
>>
>> Does anyone have recommendations for a hoist that doesn't hook to the
>> saddle?  I do not have any other room other than parallel to the wall to
>> put the bikes.  I am not strong enough to lift the bikes to a ceiling
>> hook.  Not enough room to have them perpendicular to the wall with hooks.
>>
>> Bikes are anywhere from 28-35 pounds loaded and each gets ridden at least
>> once a week.  Budget is $50-100, but would spend more for a great
>> solution.  (Right now, my "top" bike is parked in my living room.).  I have
>> one A Homer Hilsen (most likely for top position since its a diamond frame)
>> Platypus mixte and another grocery getter/commuter mixte.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Roberta
>>
>> --
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>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Baggage For Sale

[Joe Bernard]

I appreciate your struggle to figure out what's going on with the rack bag, 
I canNOT deduce the size or how it mounts from those pics. Hey Karl, can 
you show it to us sitting on a rack? 

On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 11:55:37 AM UTC-7 greenteadrinkers wrote:

> Would you know if #9 is sized to fit on top of something like a Marks 
> Rack? Looks like it could be an early trunk sack? Thx! Scott
>
> On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 2:45:54 PM UTC-4 Karl wrote:
>
>> There are some places I circled where it attaches to the rack. I’ve never 
>> used it, and cannot remember when I bought it off the list! Hope that helps
>>
>> [image: image0.jpeg]
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Sep 9, 2022, at 1:39 PM, greenteadrinkers  
>> wrote:
>>
>> Curious how bag #9 mounts to a rack? thx! Scott
>>
>>
>>
>> On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 2:20:48 PM UTC-4 Karl wrote:
>>
>>> Needing to dramatically downsize my "stuff" so, first post is my 
>>> Rivendell Bags I have had collecting dust and Golden Retriever hair! If 
>>> interested, please note the number on the photo for the bag when replying. 
>>> Let me know if I am crazy high on pricing. More fun stuff to come 
>>> (Quickbeam wheels, Paul brakes, etc!) Thanks All!
>>>
>>> Photos Here 
>>>
>>> #1- Duluth Candy Bar Bag- Some spotting. Good shape- $50 shipped
>>>
>>> #2- Baggins Candy Bar Bag- Some beausage- $40 Shipped
>>>
>>> #3- Baggins Banana-ish Bag- Shorter “tail” than other banana I have. 
>>> Also, this has a zipper- $50 shipped
>>>
>>> #4- Baggins Little Joe (Pretty sure) Hole in bottom, but still has some 
>>> miles- $50 shipped
>>>
>>> #5- Sackville Musette Bag- $40 Shipped
>>>
>>> #6- Sackville Big Bag (Don’t remember the model)- $120 Shipped
>>>
>>> #7- Sackville Big Bag (Also.. Don’t remember the model)- $120 Shipped
>>>
>>> #8- Baggins Adam (?)- Good shape- $100 Shipped
>>>
>>> #9- Rivendell Vegan Rack Bag- $30 Shipped
>>>
>>> Karl in Nashville, TN
>>>
>> -- 
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Bike Hoist recommendation needed

[Jon Dukeman]

Google ...Tie Boss. no  ratchets
Easy to operate.
Watch video
Jon

On Fri, Sep 9, 2022, 7:42 AM Roberta  wrote:

> I have one a tower leaner bike rack in my 3 ft wide covered breezeway,
> where I store my bikes parallel to the wall, one bike on top hooks, one
> sitting on the floor.  The bottom handlebar sticks out, so I've learned to
> turn sideways to pass it.  The issue is there just isn't enough room or
> strength for me to pick up a bike and raise it to the top hooks.  I'm
> working on the strength part.
>
> I was thinking of getting a bike hoist system for the top bike to replace
> the leaner rack.  I'm not keen on the ones that hook on the saddle.  I
> could just see it poking holes thru my Brooks B68. Another option is to
> just use the hoist system to get the bike to the hooks on the rack and then
> release the pressure on the saddle.
>
> Does anyone have recommendations for a hoist that doesn't hook to the
> saddle?  I do not have any other room other than parallel to the wall to
> put the bikes.  I am not strong enough to lift the bikes to a ceiling
> hook.  Not enough room to have them perpendicular to the wall with hooks.
>
> Bikes are anywhere from 28-35 pounds loaded and each gets ridden at least
> once a week.  Budget is $50-100, but would spend more for a great
> solution.  (Right now, my "top" bike is parked in my living room.).  I have
> one A Homer Hilsen (most likely for top position since its a diamond frame)
> Platypus mixte and another grocery getter/commuter mixte.
>
> Thanks,
> Roberta
>
> --
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> 
> .
>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Baggage For Sale

[jamin orrall]

pm sent for tan candybar!

On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 12:01:14 PM UTC-7 Karl wrote:

> Little Joe (#4) is (Sold) moseying on down the range. 
>
> Karl
>
> On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 1:20:48 PM UTC-5 Karl wrote:
>
>> Needing to dramatically downsize my "stuff" so, first post is my 
>> Rivendell Bags I have had collecting dust and Golden Retriever hair! If 
>> interested, please note the number on the photo for the bag when replying. 
>> Let me know if I am crazy high on pricing. More fun stuff to come 
>> (Quickbeam wheels, Paul brakes, etc!) Thanks All!
>>
>> Photos Here 
>>
>> #1- Duluth Candy Bar Bag- Some spotting. Good shape- $50 shipped
>>
>> #2- Baggins Candy Bar Bag- Some beausage- $40 Shipped
>>
>> #3- Baggins Banana-ish Bag- Shorter “tail” than other banana I have. 
>> Also, this has a zipper- $50 shipped
>>
>> #4- Baggins Little Joe (Pretty sure) Hole in bottom, but still has some 
>> miles- $50 shipped
>>
>> #5- Sackville Musette Bag- $40 Shipped
>>
>> #6- Sackville Big Bag (Don’t remember the model)- $120 Shipped
>>
>> #7- Sackville Big Bag (Also.. Don’t remember the model)- $120 Shipped
>>
>> #8- Baggins Adam (?)- Good shape- $100 Shipped
>>
>> #9- Rivendell Vegan Rack Bag- $30 Shipped
>>
>> Karl in Nashville, TN
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Baggage For Sale

[Karl]

Little Joe (#4) is (Sold) moseying on down the range. 

Karl

On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 1:20:48 PM UTC-5 Karl wrote:

> Needing to dramatically downsize my "stuff" so, first post is my Rivendell 
> Bags I have had collecting dust and Golden Retriever hair! If interested, 
> please note the number on the photo for the bag when replying. Let me know 
> if I am crazy high on pricing. More fun stuff to come (Quickbeam wheels, 
> Paul brakes, etc!) Thanks All!
>
> Photos Here 
>
> #1- Duluth Candy Bar Bag- Some spotting. Good shape- $50 shipped
>
> #2- Baggins Candy Bar Bag- Some beausage- $40 Shipped
>
> #3- Baggins Banana-ish Bag- Shorter “tail” than other banana I have. Also, 
> this has a zipper- $50 shipped
>
> #4- Baggins Little Joe (Pretty sure) Hole in bottom, but still has some 
> miles- $50 shipped
>
> #5- Sackville Musette Bag- $40 Shipped
>
> #6- Sackville Big Bag (Don’t remember the model)- $120 Shipped
>
> #7- Sackville Big Bag (Also.. Don’t remember the model)- $120 Shipped
>
> #8- Baggins Adam (?)- Good shape- $100 Shipped
>
> #9- Rivendell Vegan Rack Bag- $30 Shipped
>
> Karl in Nashville, TN
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Baggage For Sale

[greenteadrinkers]

Would you know if #9 is sized to fit on top of something like a Marks Rack? 
Looks like it could be an early trunk sack? Thx! Scott

On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 2:45:54 PM UTC-4 Karl wrote:

> There are some places I circled where it attaches to the rack. I’ve never 
> used it, and cannot remember when I bought it off the list! Hope that helps
>
> [image: image0.jpeg]
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sep 9, 2022, at 1:39 PM, greenteadrinkers  
> wrote:
>
> Curious how bag #9 mounts to a rack? thx! Scott
>
>
>
> On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 2:20:48 PM UTC-4 Karl wrote:
>
>> Needing to dramatically downsize my "stuff" so, first post is my 
>> Rivendell Bags I have had collecting dust and Golden Retriever hair! If 
>> interested, please note the number on the photo for the bag when replying. 
>> Let me know if I am crazy high on pricing. More fun stuff to come 
>> (Quickbeam wheels, Paul brakes, etc!) Thanks All!
>>
>> Photos Here 
>>
>> #1- Duluth Candy Bar Bag- Some spotting. Good shape- $50 shipped
>>
>> #2- Baggins Candy Bar Bag- Some beausage- $40 Shipped
>>
>> #3- Baggins Banana-ish Bag- Shorter “tail” than other banana I have. 
>> Also, this has a zipper- $50 shipped
>>
>> #4- Baggins Little Joe (Pretty sure) Hole in bottom, but still has some 
>> miles- $50 shipped
>>
>> #5- Sackville Musette Bag- $40 Shipped
>>
>> #6- Sackville Big Bag (Don’t remember the model)- $120 Shipped
>>
>> #7- Sackville Big Bag (Also.. Don’t remember the model)- $120 Shipped
>>
>> #8- Baggins Adam (?)- Good shape- $100 Shipped
>>
>> #9- Rivendell Vegan Rack Bag- $30 Shipped
>>
>> Karl in Nashville, TN
>>
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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Baggage For Sale

[greenteadrinkers]

Curious how bag #9 mounts to a rack? thx! Scott

On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 2:20:48 PM UTC-4 Karl wrote:

> Needing to dramatically downsize my "stuff" so, first post is my Rivendell 
> Bags I have had collecting dust and Golden Retriever hair! If interested, 
> please note the number on the photo for the bag when replying. Let me know 
> if I am crazy high on pricing. More fun stuff to come (Quickbeam wheels, 
> Paul brakes, etc!) Thanks All!
>
> Photos Here 
>
> #1- Duluth Candy Bar Bag- Some spotting. Good shape- $50 shipped
>
> #2- Baggins Candy Bar Bag- Some beausage- $40 Shipped
>
> #3- Baggins Banana-ish Bag- Shorter “tail” than other banana I have. Also, 
> this has a zipper- $50 shipped
>
> #4- Baggins Little Joe (Pretty sure) Hole in bottom, but still has some 
> miles- $50 shipped
>
> #5- Sackville Musette Bag- $40 Shipped
>
> #6- Sackville Big Bag (Don’t remember the model)- $120 Shipped
>
> #7- Sackville Big Bag (Also.. Don’t remember the model)- $120 Shipped
>
> #8- Baggins Adam (?)- Good shape- $100 Shipped
>
> #9- Rivendell Vegan Rack Bag- $30 Shipped
>
> Karl in Nashville, TN
>

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[RBW] Rivendell Baggage For Sale

[Karl]

Needing to dramatically downsize my "stuff" so, first post is my Rivendell 
Bags I have had collecting dust and Golden Retriever hair! If interested, 
please note the number on the photo for the bag when replying. Let me know 
if I am crazy high on pricing. More fun stuff to come (Quickbeam wheels, 
Paul brakes, etc!) Thanks All!

Photos Here 

#1- Duluth Candy Bar Bag- Some spotting. Good shape- $50 shipped

#2- Baggins Candy Bar Bag- Some beausage- $40 Shipped

#3- Baggins Banana-ish Bag- Shorter “tail” than other banana I have. Also, 
this has a zipper- $50 shipped

#4- Baggins Little Joe (Pretty sure) Hole in bottom, but still has some 
miles- $50 shipped

#5- Sackville Musette Bag- $40 Shipped

#6- Sackville Big Bag (Don’t remember the model)- $120 Shipped

#7- Sackville Big Bag (Also.. Don’t remember the model)- $120 Shipped

#8- Baggins Adam (?)- Good shape- $100 Shipped

#9- Rivendell Vegan Rack Bag- $30 Shipped

Karl in Nashville, TN

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[RBW] FS/FT Saddlesack Large + Kangaroo Pouch

[Kevin]

Hi all,

After toying with the idea of making some modifications, I'm just going to 
move on.

It's in good shape, maybe a bit of puckering on the leather at the bottom 
and a smallish stain on the top flap (shown in a photo but it's kind of 
hard to distinguish from a shadow) are the only issues I see. 

I will note that unlike the current bags, there is not a connection point 
for the seatpost, which is one of the complaints I've had with it.

Asking $160 (PP F/F) plus shipping or trade +/- some cash for a good size 
saddlebag that does have a seatpost connection (Happisack, Baggabond, one 
of the many nice Carradice-style bags out there)

Photos here 

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[RBW] Re: Mt Diablo

[John Rinker]

Rivendell bicycles- Forged in the fires of Mt. Diablo

Beautiful! Thanks for sharing.

Cheers, John

On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 7:44:24 AM UTC-7 campyo...@me.com wrote:

> For those who aren’t in the area, here is Rivendell’s favorite mountain as 
> it looks right now. 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: WTB: Albstache Bar

[Michael Ullmer]

And found one, thanks all!

On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 10:55:05 AM UTC-5 Michael Ullmer wrote:

> Still looking, anyone holding?
>
> On Tuesday, September 6, 2022 at 8:11:13 AM UTC-5 Michael Ullmer wrote:
>
>> My singlespeed Trek 520 is coming together nicely. It's currently set up 
>> with some mustache bars which seem just a bit too narrow for me. Albastache 
>> bars would be perfect, anyone have a pair? Happy to trade for some mustache 
>> bars or just buy straight out.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> Mike in Minneapolis
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Bike Hoist recommendation needed

[Roberta]

I have one a tower leaner bike rack in my 3 ft wide covered breezeway, 
where I store my bikes parallel to the wall, one bike on top hooks, one 
sitting on the floor.  The bottom handlebar sticks out, so I've learned to 
turn sideways to pass it.  The issue is there just isn't enough room or 
strength for me to pick up a bike and raise it to the top hooks.  I'm 
working on the strength part.

I was thinking of getting a bike hoist system for the top bike to replace 
the leaner rack.  I'm not keen on the ones that hook on the saddle.  I 
could just see it poking holes thru my Brooks B68. Another option is to 
just use the hoist system to get the bike to the hooks on the rack and then 
release the pressure on the saddle.

Does anyone have recommendations for a hoist that doesn't hook to the 
saddle?  I do not have any other room other than parallel to the wall to 
put the bikes.  I am not strong enough to lift the bikes to a ceiling 
hook.  Not enough room to have them perpendicular to the wall with hooks.

Bikes are anywhere from 28-35 pounds loaded and each gets ridden at least 
once a week.  Budget is $50-100, but would spend more for a great 
solution.  (Right now, my "top" bike is parked in my living room.).  I have 
one A Homer Hilsen (most likely for top position since its a diamond frame) 
Platypus mixte and another grocery getter/commuter mixte.

Thanks,
Roberta 

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[RBW] Re: All Time Best Paint Color

[Den John]

Another vote for the red-grey Hunquapillar. There was a custom cyclocross 
bike with the same scheme on the old Riv staff bikes that I spent too much 
time staring at. 

[image: hunq.jpg]

Also a vote for the grilver Clem H. I own one, and it is a very nice, 
understated scheme. Goes really well with the classic olive green Carradice 
bags.

Cheers,
Johnny


On Thursday, 8 September 2022 at 22:54:21 UTC+2 Paul M wrote:

> How about "Grilver"?
>
> On Thursday, 8 September 2022 at 12:03:01 UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> "Is it cheating if I say the best is this one?"
>>
>> It's not cheating if Grant makes Bicycle Belle Raspberry a production 
>> color. Put it on a 30th Anniversary Mixte, GP! 
>> On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 11:07:20 AM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding 
>> Ding! wrote:
>>
>>> [image: 5DB777E4-F431-416E-84F2-04154161C367.jpeg][image: 
>>> 20ACC827-BC28-4CC2-B0DB-890A2CC0F77D.jpeg]
>>>
>>> Is it cheating if I say the best is this one?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 11:27:35 AM UTC-4 jrst...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I still like the early Rivendell blue frames, I’m also a sucker for a 
 nice silver.  

 On Wednesday, September 7, 2022 at 7:08:42 PM UTC-4 Keith P. wrote:

>
> I've been going down the archive rabbit hole and am curious of the 
> bunch's thoughts (opinions).
>
> *What is the best factory Rivendell paint color to date?*
>
> Give me your hot takes - and photos if you've got 'em.
>


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