Re: [RBW] Drop Bombadil in the depths of the Old Forest

[Brian Turner]

One of my favorite Rivs on the internet! Looks right at home with the drops and 
ready for ruff stuff. How short of a stem did it take to get a comfortable 
reach?

-Brian

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[RBW] Re: Drop Bombadil in the depths of the Old Forest

[Joe Bernard]

I love this bike!

On Wednesday, March 27, 2024 at 5:31:52 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:

> This bike is not new to most of you, but I wanted to share a proper photo 
> taken by a friend of the current configuration. The photo was taken midway 
> up a low-traffic, rather technical hiking trail that followed a creek up 
> the mountain to the powerline cut where we were aiming. None of it was 
> rideable, nor did we expected it would be. It's a heck of an upper body 
> workout, and frustrating at times, but I've been enjoying these "rides" 
> where we try to link up sections we know are good using as little pavement 
> as possible. The key has been to accept that there will be some 
> hike-a-bike. 
>
> Anyhow, the Bombadil, which I've had since October 2020, purchased from 
> Joe, and repainted by Chris DeKerf around Christmas 2021, is now in "drop 
> bar adventure bike" configuration. It's strange, no doubt, to have a 
> Hillborne and Bombadil and to put the drop bars on the Bombadil. But my 
> logic is - the Hillborne is a great commuter and errand bike on Albatross 
> and with the pannier rack. It's got a kickstand, too. The Bombadil may be 
> stout but it's capable of just about anything, and with drop bars it feels 
> pretty sporty and not unlike a 'monstercross' rig. Just prettier. 
>
> Plans at present include: install the SON fender mount tail light I have 
> around, add a M1-B front rack so I can run a larger bag, and swap the 
> bright fender flap for a grey Riv one I have kicking around. I also have a 
> full canvas camp setup using R-10 and Tubus Tara racks; looking forward to 
> some more adventures on this soon! 
>
> [image: 103081.jpg] 

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[RBW] Re: Drop Bombadil in the depths of the Old Forest

[Josh C]

I second that. Killer bike. 

On Thursday, March 28, 2024 at 8:20:18 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:

> I love this bike!
>
> On Wednesday, March 27, 2024 at 5:31:52 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> This bike is not new to most of you, but I wanted to share a proper photo 
>> taken by a friend of the current configuration. The photo was taken midway 
>> up a low-traffic, rather technical hiking trail that followed a creek up 
>> the mountain to the powerline cut where we were aiming. None of it was 
>> rideable, nor did we expected it would be. It's a heck of an upper body 
>> workout, and frustrating at times, but I've been enjoying these "rides" 
>> where we try to link up sections we know are good using as little pavement 
>> as possible. The key has been to accept that there will be some 
>> hike-a-bike. 
>>
>> Anyhow, the Bombadil, which I've had since October 2020, purchased from 
>> Joe, and repainted by Chris DeKerf around Christmas 2021, is now in "drop 
>> bar adventure bike" configuration. It's strange, no doubt, to have a 
>> Hillborne and Bombadil and to put the drop bars on the Bombadil. But my 
>> logic is - the Hillborne is a great commuter and errand bike on Albatross 
>> and with the pannier rack. It's got a kickstand, too. The Bombadil may be 
>> stout but it's capable of just about anything, and with drop bars it feels 
>> pretty sporty and not unlike a 'monstercross' rig. Just prettier. 
>>
>> Plans at present include: install the SON fender mount tail light I have 
>> around, add a M1-B front rack so I can run a larger bag, and swap the 
>> bright fender flap for a grey Riv one I have kicking around. I also have a 
>> full canvas camp setup using R-10 and Tubus Tara racks; looking forward to 
>> some more adventures on this soon! 
>>
>> [image: 103081.jpg] 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: How do I know when a saddle fits?

[Sarah Carlson]

Hi Linda, 

I "temporarily" put my B67 on my Platypus and I think it's going to live 
there now. The springs make a squeaky noise, and I take this bike on club 
rides so sometimes it gets some comments, but I am so comfortable now I 
don't know that I need to "upgrade." There are ways to make the squeaky 
noise stop but now it's just part of my ride and makes me laugh a little 
bit. I thought about switching out to the B68 because I understand we can 
just buy one off the rack from Riv now, and this is my "fast" bike, but I 
don't feel like I need to anymore. I can ride much longer and don't find 
myself as limited by butt pain on my rides. I hope it works out for you!

Sarah

On Wednesday, March 27, 2024 at 8:39:15 AM UTC-7 Linda G wrote:

> You write that you have tried many saddles but were any of them woman 
> specific? Through a lifetime of touring and casual cycling I never had a 
> saddle that I would describe as comfortable until I found the Terry 
> Liberator X. By comfortable I mean that I just don't notice it when riding. 
> Long ago I ran for exercise, before there were running shoes for women. I 
> would get blisters on my heels and sides of my feet because the heels and 
> whole shoe was too wide and not shaped for my feet. 
> My dilemma now is finding a saddle for more upright riding that is 
> comfortable and also looks good on the Platypus I am building up. What I 
> think would be ideal is the Brooks B68s but it is not being made. Rivendell 
> sells the regular B68 if you buy a frame but I have learned that I need a 
> short saddle. I have bought a B67s and will see how it works out, though I 
> don't like the extra weight of the springs.
>
> On Wednesday, March 20, 2024 at 1:00:24 PM UTC-7 Emily Guise wrote:
>
>> Hello folks, I come to the group with a dilemma. I've never had a saddle 
>> that I could ride for longer than 20 miles comfortably. I've always ended 
>> up with sore sit bones, numb soft tissue, or both. This has really limited 
>> my ability to go on longer trips and after my five day ride on the C&O 
>> canal trail last Sept, it was more apparent than ever I need to find a 
>> saddle that won't hurt. 
>>
>> I've tried dozens of saddles over the last 15 years- leather, plastic, 
>> cutouts, no cutouts, wide, medium, softer, harder, you name it. :( Most of 
>> the saddles that have stayed on my bikes for longer than a month have a 
>> central cut out, are on the wider side, and plastic. They're good for 
>> around town, but that's it. I've never had my sit bones measured. 
>>
>> It occurred to me recently that because I've never had a truly 
>> comfortable long-distance saddle, I have no idea how one feels. So I 
>> figured I'd ask the group. How did The One saddle feel for you? Did it 
>> "disappear"? Was it love at first sit? Did it need to be adjusted a lot 
>> before finding the ideal position? Is there a certain amount of miles you 
>> ride before it becomes uncomfortable? 
>>
>> I'd love to hear the group's collective wisdom so I know what to look for 
>> in the next saddle I try out. Thanks! 
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: WTB 26" Front Wheel with Generator Hub

[JohnS]

Thank you Ian, the quality of the hub is something to consider. You mention 
ordering from German sites, is there one or two that you can recommend?

JohnS


On Wednesday, March 27, 2024 at 5:39:10 PM UTC-4 Ian A wrote:

> Just be aware that is a fairly low end dynamo in the Shimano range. 
> Slightly heavy and draggy in comparison to the higher end Shimano and SP 
> products.
>
> Some shopping around on the German sites might get you an SP hub or an 
> LX/XT hub built into a wheel. Shimano does have a restriction on allowing 
> the export of their products from Europe to North America. A complete wheel 
> might be excepted from the restriction. 
>
> I have bought a fair bit of stuff over the years (Tubus racks, B&M lights, 
> Brooks Saddles, Ortlieb panniers and handlebar bag, tires, spokes and 
> nipples etc) and quite a few of those items are now restricted for export. 
> Xxcycle in France doesn't seem to observe those restrictions (yet). Maybe 
> they do now,  my last order was while back.
>
> My main reason for ordering from Germany is because the economy shipping 
> option comes through the regular postal system and gets delivered by Canada 
> Post on this end. Canadian consumers will have horror stories of shipments 
> delivered via UPS and FedEx due to the brokerage fees for customs entry. 
> Also, shipping tends to be faster to Canada from Europe than from the USA. 
>
> IanA Deepest, darkest BC, Canada
> On Wednesday, March 27, 2024 at 1:59:09 PM UTC-7 JohnS wrote:
>
>>
>> Even better! And they have a ton of stuff on sale, so I could add socks, 
>> gloves or a jersey to the box and won't impact the shipping.
>>
>> JohnS
>>
>> On Wednesday, March 27, 2024 at 4:42:39 PM UTC-4 mathiass...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>  >> so the total price will be between 125 and 130 Euro; a Euro being 
>>> $1.08 at the moment. 
>>>
>>> That's WITH shipping. 
>>>
>>> >> 124.95 € instead of €165.95
>>> >> Price incl. VAT plus €24.55 (for delivery to United States of America)
>>> >> Product code: 234412101"
>>>
>>> Lighting articles in general are a great deal over there, bc they're a 
>>> commodity. Most bikes in Germany are sold with lighting -- it's required on 
>>> bikes used on public roads, with some exemptions for lightweight road bikes 
>>> -- so it's a huge market, and that helps.
>>>
>>> cheers -m
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, March 27, 2024 at 4:08:12 PM UTC-4 JohnS wrote:
>>>
 Thank you Mathias, that looks like a good deal, I'll have to check to 
 see what the shipping would be. I may go that route if isn't too expensive 
 and I don't hear from someone on the list.

 Hello NYCBikeGuy, sorry to give the impression that I know how to build 
 wheels, I don't, but I've heard swapping rims isn't too hard, so I was 
 going to give it a try if needed.

 JohnS

 On Wednesday, March 27, 2024 at 1:28:58 PM UTC-4 NYCbikeguy wrote:

> You seem to be savvy in wheel building. I have a disk brake dynamo in 
> gold currently laced to a 700c rim with machined sidewall for rim brakes 
> (so versatile!) Let me know if you're interested. I'll send pics.
>
> On Wednesday, March 27, 2024 at 1:01:53 PM UTC-4 mathiass...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Here's a new option:
>>
>>
>> https://www.rosebikes.com/rose-dt-swiss-535shimano-dh-3d32-qr-26-discnon-disc-mtb-front-wheel-2721231?article_size=6853&product_shape=1
>>
>> you get the 19 % VAT deducted when shipping to the U.S. so the total 
>> price will be between 125 and 130 Euro; a Euro being $1.08 at the 
>> moment. 
>> I've had excellent luck with Rose products; they sold 700x35 mm Pasela 
>> Tourguards last year for $17 a pop -- less than half the price stateside.
>>
>> cheers -mathias
>>
>> On Wednesday, March 27, 2024 at 10:51:13 AM UTC-4 JohnS wrote:
>>
>>> Hello All,
>>>
>>> Looking to make my '82 Stumpy a year round errand runner, so dyno 
>>> lights are the way to go.
>>>
>>> Requirements:
>>> 26" rim brake for a wider tire. I plan to use RH 26" x 2.3" Rat Trap 
>>> pass tires.
>>> 100 mm spacing.
>>> 6V, 3W power output for front and rear LED lights.
>>> Good working order and can be serviced (no rusty axle nuts).
>>>
>>> Nice to have, but not required:
>>> Silver color, but black is ok.
>>> 32 spoke count (I have an extra rim, so if yours is worn out, I can 
>>> switch it).
>>> Looking to spend about $100 plus shipping to Allentown PA 18104.
>>> Hub brand is not too important to me, the exception would be the 
>>> Sanyo hub, I've read that it has noticeable drag.
>>>
>>> Please reply directly to me if you have one to unload.
>>> Thank you,
>>> JohnS
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Selling Betty Foy and Ives Gomez

[J S]

If I found a Yves in my size I would sell or trade my Sam. Being as that is 
doubtful I will continue to ride my bikes until I can no longer get my leg 
over the TT. Age has a way of humbling us. 

On Wednesday, March 27, 2024 at 2:56:05 PM UTC-4 wpes...@gmail.com wrote:

> I am 6’ tall with a 30” in seam. The saddle setting in the pic was for my 
> son who is 5’9”. My normal saddle setting is about 2” higher than what I 
> have in the picture. BTW the brakes are Paul center pull brakes. Sorry for 
> the typo. 
>
> On Wednesday, March 27, 2024 at 2:47:29 PM UTC-4 Michael Baquerizo wrote:
>
>> can i ask how tall you are / your PBH? That Yves looks as low as it could 
>> go, wondering if it would work for me.
>>
>> On Wednesday, March 27, 2024 at 2:41:28 PM UTC-4 wpes...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> [image: IMG_0268.jpeg]Betty found a new home but my Ives Gomez is still 
>>> available. It’s on a 60 cm frame with top of the line component upgrades 
>>> including White Industry hubs and bottom bracket, Pal center pull brakes, 
>>> Bull Moose handle bar, Shimano Ultegra Derailleurs, Nitto front and rear 
>>> racks. The bike is in very good condition with only minor wear marks. I 
>>> also have a new spare rim which comes with the bike. If interested please 
>>> send me a note for more pics and details. 
>>>
>>> On Thursday, December 14, 2023 at 11:37:16 AM UTC-5 walter peseckas 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I am selling both bikes which we purchased in 2013. We hate to sell but 
 in our age biking is no longer possible. The 60 cm Ives Gomez has top of 
 the line components upgrades including White Industries hubs and bottom 
 bracket, Paul center pull brakes, Nitto front and rear racks, Bull Moose 
 handle bar, Shimano Ultegra Derailleurs. The bike is in very good 
 condition 
 with only very minor paint scratches. The 55cm Betty Foy is in superb as 
 new condition with a spare set of fenders. If anyone is interested please 
 let me know. I can send pictures. 
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: How do I know when a saddle fits?

[Bill Lindsay]

Hi Linda

In my searches for a B67, at one point I accidentally bought one on eBay, 
not realizing it's a B67S.  So, I was stuck with a woman's shaped B67.  I 
tried deploying that saddle on a build for my wife, but she didn't like the 
build.  That bike is sitting up at my cabin in the mountains as a guest 
bike.  I could retrieve that saddle next time I'm up in gold country, if 
you would be interested.  It's essentially new, and it's honey in color. 
 Let me know if you'd like me to photograph it on my next trip "upstairs". 
 I'd be looking for $100 shipped to remove it.  

Bill Lindsay

On Wednesday, March 27, 2024 at 8:39:15 AM UTC-7 Linda G wrote:

> You write that you have tried many saddles but were any of them woman 
> specific? Through a lifetime of touring and casual cycling I never had a 
> saddle that I would describe as comfortable until I found the Terry 
> Liberator X. By comfortable I mean that I just don't notice it when riding. 
> Long ago I ran for exercise, before there were running shoes for women. I 
> would get blisters on my heels and sides of my feet because the heels and 
> whole shoe was too wide and not shaped for my feet. 
> My dilemma now is finding a saddle for more upright riding that is 
> comfortable and also looks good on the Platypus I am building up. What I 
> think would be ideal is the Brooks B68s but it is not being made. Rivendell 
> sells the regular B68 if you buy a frame but I have learned that I need a 
> short saddle. I have bought a B67s and will see how it works out, though I 
> don't like the extra weight of the springs.
>
> On Wednesday, March 20, 2024 at 1:00:24 PM UTC-7 Emily Guise wrote:
>
>> Hello folks, I come to the group with a dilemma. I've never had a saddle 
>> that I could ride for longer than 20 miles comfortably. I've always ended 
>> up with sore sit bones, numb soft tissue, or both. This has really limited 
>> my ability to go on longer trips and after my five day ride on the C&O 
>> canal trail last Sept, it was more apparent than ever I need to find a 
>> saddle that won't hurt. 
>>
>> I've tried dozens of saddles over the last 15 years- leather, plastic, 
>> cutouts, no cutouts, wide, medium, softer, harder, you name it. :( Most of 
>> the saddles that have stayed on my bikes for longer than a month have a 
>> central cut out, are on the wider side, and plastic. They're good for 
>> around town, but that's it. I've never had my sit bones measured. 
>>
>> It occurred to me recently that because I've never had a truly 
>> comfortable long-distance saddle, I have no idea how one feels. So I 
>> figured I'd ask the group. How did The One saddle feel for you? Did it 
>> "disappear"? Was it love at first sit? Did it need to be adjusted a lot 
>> before finding the ideal position? Is there a certain amount of miles you 
>> ride before it becomes uncomfortable? 
>>
>> I'd love to hear the group's collective wisdom so I know what to look for 
>> in the next saddle I try out. Thanks! 
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: How do I know when a saddle fits?

[John Dewey]

Roberta, have you experimented with a cut-out saddle?

Jock

On Tue, Mar 26, 2024 at 12:20 AM Roberta  wrote:

> The Philadelphia Trek store can measure sits bones. Perhaps there is one
> near you to give you some direction?
>
> I prefer a flat top like the B68 to a rounder top B17. I also have wide
> sits bones, so B17 too narrow for me.   I tilt the saddle nose up, so I’m
> sitting on the flat back part of the saddle.  Otherwise I slide to the
> front sitting on the nose part, and that is very irritating.  Where are you
> sitting on the saddle?
>
> Also take notice where the seams of your underwear are when you’re riding
> as sit bones on seams are irritating.
>
> Roberta
> Philadelphia
>
> On Wednesday, March 20, 2024 at 4:00:24 PM UTC-4 Emily Guise wrote:
>
>> Hello folks, I come to the group with a dilemma. I've never had a saddle
>> that I could ride for longer than 20 miles comfortably. I've always ended
>> up with sore sit bones, numb soft tissue, or both. This has really limited
>> my ability to go on longer trips and after my five day ride on the C&O
>> canal trail last Sept, it was more apparent than ever I need to find a
>> saddle that won't hurt.
>>
>> I've tried dozens of saddles over the last 15 years- leather, plastic,
>> cutouts, no cutouts, wide, medium, softer, harder, you name it. :( Most of
>> the saddles that have stayed on my bikes for longer than a month have a
>> central cut out, are on the wider side, and plastic. They're good for
>> around town, but that's it. I've never had my sit bones measured.
>>
>> It occurred to me recently that because I've never had a truly
>> comfortable long-distance saddle, I have no idea how one feels. So I
>> figured I'd ask the group. How did The One saddle feel for you? Did it
>> "disappear"? Was it love at first sit? Did it need to be adjusted a lot
>> before finding the ideal position? Is there a certain amount of miles you
>> ride before it becomes uncomfortable?
>>
>> I'd love to hear the group's collective wisdom so I know what to look for
>> in the next saddle I try out. Thanks!
>>
>>
>> --
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> .
>

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[RBW] Re: WTB 26" Front Wheel with Generator Hub

[Ian A]

John,

Since 2013,  have bought from bike24.de, rose.de and bike-discount.de in 
Germany. All have been excellent.  My last order was in 2020 from Rose 
Bike, when I couldn't find what I needed locally. Things have changed over 
the past 10 years or so. There are quite a number of restrictions by 
manufacturers as to what can leave the EU (in order to protect local North 
America vendors, which makes good sense) and things like batteries now fall 
under restrictions for dangerous cargo. Rose removed the cycle computer 
from my order because of the single CR2032 battery couldn't be shipped 
outside of the EU without extensive paperwork!

Naturally, with this being the RBW list, look for local options first. 
Maybe a list member is holding just what you are looking for. :)

IanA Kitimat BC
On Thursday, March 28, 2024 at 6:13:46 AM UTC-7 JohnS wrote:

> Thank you Ian, the quality of the hub is something to consider. You 
> mention ordering from German sites, is there one or two that you can 
> recommend?
>
> JohnS
>
>
> On Wednesday, March 27, 2024 at 5:39:10 PM UTC-4 Ian A wrote:
>
>> Just be aware that is a fairly low end dynamo in the Shimano range. 
>> Slightly heavy and draggy in comparison to the higher end Shimano and SP 
>> products.
>>
>> Some shopping around on the German sites might get you an SP hub or an 
>> LX/XT hub built into a wheel. Shimano does have a restriction on allowing 
>> the export of their products from Europe to North America. A complete wheel 
>> might be excepted from the restriction. 
>>
>> I have bought a fair bit of stuff over the years (Tubus racks, B&M 
>> lights, Brooks Saddles, Ortlieb panniers and handlebar bag, tires, spokes 
>> and nipples etc) and quite a few of those items are now restricted for 
>> export. Xxcycle in France doesn't seem to observe those restrictions (yet). 
>> Maybe they do now,  my last order was while back.
>>
>> My main reason for ordering from Germany is because the economy shipping 
>> option comes through the regular postal system and gets delivered by Canada 
>> Post on this end. Canadian consumers will have horror stories of shipments 
>> delivered via UPS and FedEx due to the brokerage fees for customs entry. 
>> Also, shipping tends to be faster to Canada from Europe than from the USA. 
>>
>> IanA Deepest, darkest BC, Canada
>> On Wednesday, March 27, 2024 at 1:59:09 PM UTC-7 JohnS wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Even better! And they have a ton of stuff on sale, so I could add socks, 
>>> gloves or a jersey to the box and won't impact the shipping.
>>>
>>> JohnS
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, March 27, 2024 at 4:42:39 PM UTC-4 mathiass...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
  >> so the total price will be between 125 and 130 Euro; a Euro being 
 $1.08 at the moment. 

 That's WITH shipping. 

 >> 124.95 € instead of €165.95
 >> Price incl. VAT plus €24.55 (for delivery to United States of 
 America)
 >> Product code: 234412101"

 Lighting articles in general are a great deal over there, bc they're a 
 commodity. Most bikes in Germany are sold with lighting -- it's required 
 on 
 bikes used on public roads, with some exemptions for lightweight road 
 bikes 
 -- so it's a huge market, and that helps.

 cheers -m


 On Wednesday, March 27, 2024 at 4:08:12 PM UTC-4 JohnS wrote:

> Thank you Mathias, that looks like a good deal, I'll have to check to 
> see what the shipping would be. I may go that route if isn't too 
> expensive 
> and I don't hear from someone on the list.
>
> Hello NYCBikeGuy, sorry to give the impression that I know how to 
> build wheels, I don't, but I've heard swapping rims isn't too hard, so I 
> was going to give it a try if needed.
>
> JohnS
>
> On Wednesday, March 27, 2024 at 1:28:58 PM UTC-4 NYCbikeguy wrote:
>
>> You seem to be savvy in wheel building. I have a disk brake dynamo in 
>> gold currently laced to a 700c rim with machined sidewall for rim brakes 
>> (so versatile!) Let me know if you're interested. I'll send pics.
>>
>> On Wednesday, March 27, 2024 at 1:01:53 PM UTC-4 
>> mathiass...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Here's a new option:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.rosebikes.com/rose-dt-swiss-535shimano-dh-3d32-qr-26-discnon-disc-mtb-front-wheel-2721231?article_size=6853&product_shape=1
>>>
>>> you get the 19 % VAT deducted when shipping to the U.S. so the total 
>>> price will be between 125 and 130 Euro; a Euro being $1.08 at the 
>>> moment. 
>>> I've had excellent luck with Rose products; they sold 700x35 mm Pasela 
>>> Tourguards last year for $17 a pop -- less than half the price 
>>> stateside.
>>>
>>> cheers -mathias
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, March 27, 2024 at 10:51:13 AM UTC-4 JohnS wrote:
>>>
 Hello All,

 Looking to make my '82 Stumpy a year round errand runner, so dyno 
 lights ar

[RBW] Re: Drop Bombadil in the depths of the Old Forest

[Doug H.]

Perfect setting for a do-it-all bike.
Doug

On Thursday, March 28, 2024 at 8:28:17 AM UTC-4 Josh C wrote:

> I second that. Killer bike. 
>
> On Thursday, March 28, 2024 at 8:20:18 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> I love this bike!
>>
>> On Wednesday, March 27, 2024 at 5:31:52 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> This bike is not new to most of you, but I wanted to share a proper 
>>> photo taken by a friend of the current configuration. The photo was taken 
>>> midway up a low-traffic, rather technical hiking trail that followed a 
>>> creek up the mountain to the powerline cut where we were aiming. None of it 
>>> was rideable, nor did we expected it would be. It's a heck of an upper body 
>>> workout, and frustrating at times, but I've been enjoying these "rides" 
>>> where we try to link up sections we know are good using as little pavement 
>>> as possible. The key has been to accept that there will be some 
>>> hike-a-bike. 
>>>
>>> Anyhow, the Bombadil, which I've had since October 2020, purchased from 
>>> Joe, and repainted by Chris DeKerf around Christmas 2021, is now in "drop 
>>> bar adventure bike" configuration. It's strange, no doubt, to have a 
>>> Hillborne and Bombadil and to put the drop bars on the Bombadil. But my 
>>> logic is - the Hillborne is a great commuter and errand bike on Albatross 
>>> and with the pannier rack. It's got a kickstand, too. The Bombadil may be 
>>> stout but it's capable of just about anything, and with drop bars it feels 
>>> pretty sporty and not unlike a 'monstercross' rig. Just prettier. 
>>>
>>> Plans at present include: install the SON fender mount tail light I have 
>>> around, add a M1-B front rack so I can run a larger bag, and swap the 
>>> bright fender flap for a grey Riv one I have kicking around. I also have a 
>>> full canvas camp setup using R-10 and Tubus Tara racks; looking forward to 
>>> some more adventures on this soon! 
>>>
>>> [image: 103081.jpg] 
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: FS: NOS Heron Road frame & fork, 60cm, $800

[Tom Goodmann]

The frame and fork are sold, pending payment. Thanks to all those who have 
written with interest.

Tom

On Wednesday, March 27, 2024 at 9:53:04 PM UTC-4 Tom Goodmann wrote:

>   As part of downsizing ahead of an impending move, I am selling a 
> never-built 60 cm Heron Road frame and fork only (no headset; no bottom 
> bracket). As all of you will know, the bike was designed by Grant 
> Petersen at Rivendell, and built by Waterford as a collaboration with Rona 
> Components, then owned by Ted Durant. The beautiful blue-green road frame 
> bears serial number B00055, and was built in February 2000 with Reynolds 
> 531 tubing. (For further information, all of the original Heron web pages 
> may be found on the Internet). 
>   The frame bears only the slightest mark on the inside of one rear 
> dropout, probably a sign of having been fitted with a wheel at some point; 
> it is otherwise pristine with all decals and the Heron head badge in 
> perfect condition. $800, plus shipping and insurance (I'll use a frame box 
> instead of a full-size bike box). Questions welcome!  Tom 
> Photos here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/132838700@N02/
>

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Re: [RBW] Craigslist, etc 2024

[Drew Fitchette]

59cm Bleriot over on the facebook group 


Little bit of Beausage, but looks nice! 

On Monday, March 25, 2024 at 12:16:13 PM UTC-4 mathiass...@gmail.com wrote:

> Asking prices are just exercises in first-amendment rights.
>
> >> I see very basic build [..] going for $2k or more.
>
> Not often you don't. The ones you see on Craigs or FB ain't went yet.
>
> Problem is, many sellers don't understand that and basically wind up 
> driving each other's pricing higher.
>
> On Monday, March 25, 2024 at 10:41:53 AM UTC-4 Josh C wrote:
>
>> At least that Atlantis has some nice bits on it, Paul, velocity, and the 
>> like. I see very basic builds, where I'd want to swap almost everything 
>> out, going for $2K or more.
>>
>> On Monday, March 25, 2024 at 8:31:42 AM UTC-4 sarahlik...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> This bike is only one million dollars, see honey, I'm trying!
>>>
>>>  Joe you nailed it. 
>>>
>>> On Sunday, March 24, 2024 at 10:25:11 PM UTC-7 Luke Hendrickson wrote:
>>>
 Hahahaha yeah, that makes sense, Joe 😂

 On Sunday, March 24, 2024 at 10:14:51 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> I call it "spouse/SO says I have to sell" pricing. Somehow it never 
> sells! 
>
> On Sunday, March 24, 2024 at 9:48:01 PM UTC-7 jonathan@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> iirc the pricing was even worse the last time they listed it. sad to 
>> see
>> On Sunday, March 24, 2024 at 8:17:37 PM UTC-7 Luke Hendrickson wrote:
>>
>>> That 51 on CL Seattle: pricing is nuts. Seems like a common theme 
>>> with Rivs for sale. 
>>>
>>> On Sunday, March 24, 2024 at 1:25:55 PM UTC-7 brok...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 The 51cm Atlantis from Seattle that Matti posted is a newer style 
 MIT Atlantis made for 650b wheels. While I still think the one in 
 question 
 is possibly also a 51cm, it’s a Toyo model made for 26” wheels. My 
 frame of 
 reference is usually the amount of headtube space between the top tube 
 and 
 down tube. If there’s a pump peg, that gives you an even better 
 reference 
 point for eyeing up the size of a frame.
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Drop Bombadil in the depths of the Old Forest

[John Bokman]

Looks great Jason. Also curious about the stem. And wondering what width 
tires under those fenders? Looks like you may have break-away fender tabs 
on there?

John
On Wednesday, March 27, 2024 at 5:31:52 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:

> This bike is not new to most of you, but I wanted to share a proper photo 
> taken by a friend of the current configuration. The photo was taken midway 
> up a low-traffic, rather technical hiking trail that followed a creek up 
> the mountain to the powerline cut where we were aiming. None of it was 
> rideable, nor did we expected it would be. It's a heck of an upper body 
> workout, and frustrating at times, but I've been enjoying these "rides" 
> where we try to link up sections we know are good using as little pavement 
> as possible. The key has been to accept that there will be some 
> hike-a-bike. 
>
> Anyhow, the Bombadil, which I've had since October 2020, purchased from 
> Joe, and repainted by Chris DeKerf around Christmas 2021, is now in "drop 
> bar adventure bike" configuration. It's strange, no doubt, to have a 
> Hillborne and Bombadil and to put the drop bars on the Bombadil. But my 
> logic is - the Hillborne is a great commuter and errand bike on Albatross 
> and with the pannier rack. It's got a kickstand, too. The Bombadil may be 
> stout but it's capable of just about anything, and with drop bars it feels 
> pretty sporty and not unlike a 'monstercross' rig. Just prettier. 
>
> Plans at present include: install the SON fender mount tail light I have 
> around, add a M1-B front rack so I can run a larger bag, and swap the 
> bright fender flap for a grey Riv one I have kicking around. I also have a 
> full canvas camp setup using R-10 and Tubus Tara racks; looking forward to 
> some more adventures on this soon! 
>
> [image: 103081.jpg] 

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[RBW] Re: Drop Bombadil in the depths of the Old Forest

[Jason Fuller]

Cheers, all!  

The stem is as short as they get - Crust BJ stem, which is 25mm length and 
doesn't even have an extension tube. I tend to prefer a shorter reach and 
even on the Hillborne I run a 5cm Tallux, despite the bike not being too 
large at all. I like how it keeps me from being too much on the front wheel 
during off-roading. 

Indeed I have safety tabs on the front, will on the rear soon too - I did 
have a stick jam situation before while on a very untrodden and remote 
stretch of double track and I don't wish to repeat that harrowing situation 
again. They are the Simworks 63mm fenders and underneath are 48mm 
Ultradynamicos.  I don't really like knobby tires plus fenders generally 
because all the "bzzzt" noise of pebbles going through the fender is 
annoying, but these are good because they have a pretty solid center 
section and widely spaced, shallow knobs on the side - they don't pick 
stuff up like most knobbies. Plus they handle predictably both on and off 
pavement  

On Thursday 28 March 2024 at 12:39:15 UTC-7 John Bokman wrote:

> Looks great Jason. Also curious about the stem. And wondering what width 
> tires under those fenders? Looks like you may have break-away fender tabs 
> on there?
>
> John
> On Wednesday, March 27, 2024 at 5:31:52 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> This bike is not new to most of you, but I wanted to share a proper photo 
>> taken by a friend of the current configuration. The photo was taken midway 
>> up a low-traffic, rather technical hiking trail that followed a creek up 
>> the mountain to the powerline cut where we were aiming. None of it was 
>> rideable, nor did we expected it would be. It's a heck of an upper body 
>> workout, and frustrating at times, but I've been enjoying these "rides" 
>> where we try to link up sections we know are good using as little pavement 
>> as possible. The key has been to accept that there will be some 
>> hike-a-bike. 
>>
>> Anyhow, the Bombadil, which I've had since October 2020, purchased from 
>> Joe, and repainted by Chris DeKerf around Christmas 2021, is now in "drop 
>> bar adventure bike" configuration. It's strange, no doubt, to have a 
>> Hillborne and Bombadil and to put the drop bars on the Bombadil. But my 
>> logic is - the Hillborne is a great commuter and errand bike on Albatross 
>> and with the pannier rack. It's got a kickstand, too. The Bombadil may be 
>> stout but it's capable of just about anything, and with drop bars it feels 
>> pretty sporty and not unlike a 'monstercross' rig. Just prettier. 
>>
>> Plans at present include: install the SON fender mount tail light I have 
>> around, add a M1-B front rack so I can run a larger bag, and swap the 
>> bright fender flap for a grey Riv one I have kicking around. I also have a 
>> full canvas camp setup using R-10 and Tubus Tara racks; looking forward to 
>> some more adventures on this soon! 
>>
>> [image: 103081.jpg] 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Craigslist, etc 2024

[Josh C]

62cm Betty Foy 
https://austin.craigslist.org/bik/d/austin-rivendell-betty-foy/7731921905.html

On Thursday, March 28, 2024 at 2:57:21 PM UTC-4 drewfi...@gmail.com wrote:

> 59cm Bleriot over on the facebook group 
> 
>
> Little bit of Beausage, but looks nice! 
>
> On Monday, March 25, 2024 at 12:16:13 PM UTC-4 mathiass...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Asking prices are just exercises in first-amendment rights.
>>
>> >> I see very basic build [..] going for $2k or more.
>>
>> Not often you don't. The ones you see on Craigs or FB ain't went yet.
>>
>> Problem is, many sellers don't understand that and basically wind up 
>> driving each other's pricing higher.
>>
>> On Monday, March 25, 2024 at 10:41:53 AM UTC-4 Josh C wrote:
>>
>>> At least that Atlantis has some nice bits on it, Paul, velocity, and the 
>>> like. I see very basic builds, where I'd want to swap almost everything 
>>> out, going for $2K or more.
>>>
>>> On Monday, March 25, 2024 at 8:31:42 AM UTC-4 sarahlik...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 This bike is only one million dollars, see honey, I'm trying!

  Joe you nailed it. 

 On Sunday, March 24, 2024 at 10:25:11 PM UTC-7 Luke Hendrickson wrote:

> Hahahaha yeah, that makes sense, Joe 😂
>
> On Sunday, March 24, 2024 at 10:14:51 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> I call it "spouse/SO says I have to sell" pricing. Somehow it never 
>> sells! 
>>
>> On Sunday, March 24, 2024 at 9:48:01 PM UTC-7 jonathan@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> iirc the pricing was even worse the last time they listed it. sad to 
>>> see
>>> On Sunday, March 24, 2024 at 8:17:37 PM UTC-7 Luke Hendrickson wrote:
>>>
 That 51 on CL Seattle: pricing is nuts. Seems like a common theme 
 with Rivs for sale. 

 On Sunday, March 24, 2024 at 1:25:55 PM UTC-7 brok...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> The 51cm Atlantis from Seattle that Matti posted is a newer style 
> MIT Atlantis made for 650b wheels. While I still think the one in 
> question 
> is possibly also a 51cm, it’s a Toyo model made for 26” wheels. My 
> frame of 
> reference is usually the amount of headtube space between the top 
> tube and 
> down tube. If there’s a pump peg, that gives you an even better 
> reference 
> point for eyeing up the size of a frame.



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[RBW] The BEST bike film!

[John Rinker]

Have you seen Will's 8mm bike film 
? Maybe it's because I spent a 
number of years wandering around Golden Gate, or it's shot in 8mm, or the 
colors are so lush, or wheelies, or mud stripes, or those first tracks on 
the lawn? Whatever. Perhaps because it's so casual and inviting. Anyway, 
it's super cool!

Cheers, John

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Re: [RBW] Re: Anyone else not a fan of the very long chainstays?

[Mike Godwin]

Eric D asked what model Treks.  Good question, as I just walked in on the 
sout side of the store and exited on the north side.

Well, went back to the LBS today after dental appointment. I was looking 
for 1) a chain checker tool, and 2) Purple Loctite #222. Fizzled out on 
both.  The long wheelbase Treks are the FX 1, FX 2 and FX 3. Sports are a 
bit shorter. Nothing like what Kim Hetzel shows in the Clem photo.  The web 
photos appear to show a bike with a shorter wheelbase, shorter chainstays 
than what I observed, in person, at the LBS.

Mike SLO CA 

On Sunday, March 10, 2024 at 11:10:20 AM UTC-7 Kim H. wrote:

> @Joel,
> I am grateful to hear that you have arrived at the much desired height 
> with your handlebar stem.
>
> Comfort in the cockpit is everything. 
>
> Kim Hetzel. 
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 10, 2024, 11:02 AM J S  wrote:
>
>> Kim, I have the height  I need while it is maxed out it is just what I 
>> need. 
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 10, 2024 at 1:59 PM Kim H.  wrote:
>>
>>> @Joel,
>>>
>>> It is quite comforting to hear that I am not alone in not wanting to 
>>> have a threadless stem on my bicycle, my Clem. I only have one bicycle that 
>>> I ride. The other is a retired road bike that I would like to sell to a 
>>> good home. 
>>>
>>> Would the Nitto Technomic NTC-280 stem help you get the height you want 
>>> on your favorite bike ?
>>>
>>> Kim Hetzel. 
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Mar 10, 2024, 5:51 AM J S  wrote:
>>>
 Kim, I agree, I have never wanted a threadless stem, probably for the 
 same reasons as you. In my mind a threadless stem will not give me the 
 height I desire, maybe I am wrong but I have my bikes and will not be 
 adding any more.  



 On Sat, Mar 9, 2024 at 8:51 PM Kim H.  wrote:

> @Joel,
> You are more than welcome. 
> I was very fortunate to find this very quill stem. I could not bring 
> myself to go threadless, after over 40 years going used to quill stems. I 
> am very slow to change, by the way. I am very happy with the The Nitto 
> Technomic NTC-280 stem. 
>
> Kim Hetzel. 
>
>
> On Saturday, March 9, 2024 at 4:27:13 PM UTC-8 jrst...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
> Thanks Kim. I have only used Technomic stems because they were the 
> longest available when I started with Riv in ‘97 or so. I think on my 
> first 
> road I used the shorter Technomic deluxe. 
>
> On Sat, Mar 9, 2024 at 7:23 PM Kim H.  wrote:
>
> @Joel,
> The  Nitto Technomic NTC-280 stemis very much different than that of 
> the Nitto Technomic Tallux in that the NTC-280 stem's quill is a length 
> of 
> 11.02 inches, while the Tallux stem's quill length is shorter, 10.3 
> inches.
>
> This is where I bought mine:
> https://alexscycle.com/products/nitto-technomic-ntc-280-stem-1
>
> Kim Hetzel. 
> On Saturday, March 9, 2024 at 5:50:11 AM UTC-8 jrst...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>
> Kim, is this  NITTO Technomic NTC-280 Stem the same as the Technomic? 
> I never heard the NTC-280 part before. The Technomic is the old high stem 
> I 
> think Riv now calls the Tallux. 
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 8, 2024 at 9:52 PM Kim H.  wrote:
>
> @John,
> From you have spoken about more weight distribution further back on 
> the rear wheel and the handlebars closer to the rider for a comfortable 
> upright riding position, in my case with my 52cm Clem "L" bike, I have 
> found myself very comfortable with more weight on the back wheel with a 
> Sakae Ringyo MTE-100 seat post paired with a Brooks B-66S saddle. As far 
> as 
> getting the my Nitto Bosco bars higher and closer to me, I found a NITTO 
> Technomic NTC-280 Stem to get me there. The stem is outrageously tall, 
> yet 
> it all works for me with everything around these long chain stays as a 
> senior cyclist.  
>
> Kim Hetzel. [image: 20240128_143701hhh.jpg]
>
> On Friday, March 8, 2024 at 8:04:12 AM UTC-8 John Johnson wrote:
>
> I have both normal and longish chainstay bikes in my house. I like the 
> aesthetics of both, and they both feel "normal" (like Matt from Crust 
> said) 
> once you're riding. 
>
> I know way less about bike handling and geometry than most of you, but 
> one thing I assume that when you're riding in a more upright position, 
> you 
> want those long chainstays because your center of gravity is more aft 
> than 
> with a "traditional" bike position, where you are leaned a bit more 
> forward 
> on your hands and your weight is distributed more up front. It makes 
> intuitive sense to me, and if you look at both Jones and Riv, the comfy 
> upright position that they both aim for (albeit via different routes) 
> involves getting the bars closer to you (high stack and short reach in 
> the 
> case of Jones, high handlebar

Re: [RBW] Re: How do I know when a saddle fits?

[Emily Guise]

Hey all, thanks so much for your insights! I'm local to Portland OR, and 
there is a bike fitter in town, Pedal PT, who also does physical therapy. 
I've been wondering if I should get a fit with them, and it seems like I 
should look into it more seriously.

My travel/adventure/distance bike is a Bike Friday, and that's the one I'd 
get fit. I do tend to like the flatter saddles, and usually ride with the 
nose titled up. A challenge is that I have very long arms and legs but a 
shorter torso. Anyone with a similar body type have any advice?

I have tried women's specific saddles- I tried a Terry Liberator for a 
while, but it was just SO hard, even though the cutout was fantastic. The 
same with the Brookses, I always felt like I was sitting on the metal edge 
or the leather was as unforgiving as wood and as uncomfortable. I'm trying 
out Riv's new plastic saddle on my Platypus right now. It's sort of 
comfortable but also feels maybe not quite wide enough. I'll have to give 
it a few more weeks. 


On Thursday, March 28, 2024 at 7:22:12 AM UTC-7 John Dewey wrote:

> Roberta, have you experimented with a cut-out saddle? 
>
> Jock
>
> On Tue, Mar 26, 2024 at 12:20 AM Roberta  wrote:
>
>> The Philadelphia Trek store can measure sits bones. Perhaps there is one 
>> near you to give you some direction?
>>
>> I prefer a flat top like the B68 to a rounder top B17. I also have wide 
>> sits bones, so B17 too narrow for me.   I tilt the saddle nose up, so I’m 
>> sitting on the flat back part of the saddle.  Otherwise I slide to the 
>> front sitting on the nose part, and that is very irritating.  Where are you 
>> sitting on the saddle?
>>
>> Also take notice where the seams of your underwear are when you’re riding 
>> as sit bones on seams are irritating. 
>>
>> Roberta
>> Philadelphia 
>>
>> On Wednesday, March 20, 2024 at 4:00:24 PM UTC-4 Emily Guise wrote:
>>
>>> Hello folks, I come to the group with a dilemma. I've never had a saddle 
>>> that I could ride for longer than 20 miles comfortably. I've always ended 
>>> up with sore sit bones, numb soft tissue, or both. This has really limited 
>>> my ability to go on longer trips and after my five day ride on the C&O 
>>> canal trail last Sept, it was more apparent than ever I need to find a 
>>> saddle that won't hurt. 
>>>
>>> I've tried dozens of saddles over the last 15 years- leather, plastic, 
>>> cutouts, no cutouts, wide, medium, softer, harder, you name it. :( Most of 
>>> the saddles that have stayed on my bikes for longer than a month have a 
>>> central cut out, are on the wider side, and plastic. They're good for 
>>> around town, but that's it. I've never had my sit bones measured. 
>>>
>>> It occurred to me recently that because I've never had a truly 
>>> comfortable long-distance saddle, I have no idea how one feels. So I 
>>> figured I'd ask the group. How did The One saddle feel for you? Did it 
>>> "disappear"? Was it love at first sit? Did it need to be adjusted a lot 
>>> before finding the ideal position? Is there a certain amount of miles you 
>>> ride before it becomes uncomfortable? 
>>>
>>> I'd love to hear the group's collective wisdom so I know what to look 
>>> for in the next saddle I try out. Thanks! 
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Drop Bombadil in the depths of the Old Forest

[John Rinker]

Man, that Bomba is cool, but that split rock is outtasight! 

The rock looks as though the tree roots envelop it. Next time you're by 
that place I'd like to see the bigger picture.

What a special spot to ride an outstanding bike to. 

Cheers, John



On Thursday, March 28, 2024 at 1:34:02 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:

> Cheers, all!  
>
> The stem is as short as they get - Crust BJ stem, which is 25mm length and 
> doesn't even have an extension tube. I tend to prefer a shorter reach and 
> even on the Hillborne I run a 5cm Tallux, despite the bike not being too 
> large at all. I like how it keeps me from being too much on the front wheel 
> during off-roading. 
>
> Indeed I have safety tabs on the front, will on the rear soon too - I did 
> have a stick jam situation before while on a very untrodden and remote 
> stretch of double track and I don't wish to repeat that harrowing situation 
> again. They are the Simworks 63mm fenders and underneath are 48mm 
> Ultradynamicos.  I don't really like knobby tires plus fenders generally 
> because all the "bzzzt" noise of pebbles going through the fender is 
> annoying, but these are good because they have a pretty solid center 
> section and widely spaced, shallow knobs on the side - they don't pick 
> stuff up like most knobbies. Plus they handle predictably both on and off 
> pavement  
>
> On Thursday 28 March 2024 at 12:39:15 UTC-7 John Bokman wrote:
>
>> Looks great Jason. Also curious about the stem. And wondering what width 
>> tires under those fenders? Looks like you may have break-away fender tabs 
>> on there?
>>
>> John
>> On Wednesday, March 27, 2024 at 5:31:52 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> This bike is not new to most of you, but I wanted to share a proper 
>>> photo taken by a friend of the current configuration. The photo was taken 
>>> midway up a low-traffic, rather technical hiking trail that followed a 
>>> creek up the mountain to the powerline cut where we were aiming. None of it 
>>> was rideable, nor did we expected it would be. It's a heck of an upper body 
>>> workout, and frustrating at times, but I've been enjoying these "rides" 
>>> where we try to link up sections we know are good using as little pavement 
>>> as possible. The key has been to accept that there will be some 
>>> hike-a-bike. 
>>>
>>> Anyhow, the Bombadil, which I've had since October 2020, purchased from 
>>> Joe, and repainted by Chris DeKerf around Christmas 2021, is now in "drop 
>>> bar adventure bike" configuration. It's strange, no doubt, to have a 
>>> Hillborne and Bombadil and to put the drop bars on the Bombadil. But my 
>>> logic is - the Hillborne is a great commuter and errand bike on Albatross 
>>> and with the pannier rack. It's got a kickstand, too. The Bombadil may be 
>>> stout but it's capable of just about anything, and with drop bars it feels 
>>> pretty sporty and not unlike a 'monstercross' rig. Just prettier. 
>>>
>>> Plans at present include: install the SON fender mount tail light I have 
>>> around, add a M1-B front rack so I can run a larger bag, and swap the 
>>> bright fender flap for a grey Riv one I have kicking around. I also have a 
>>> full canvas camp setup using R-10 and Tubus Tara racks; looking forward to 
>>> some more adventures on this soon! 
>>>
>>> [image: 103081.jpg] 
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: FS: Rosco Platypus - 60cm - $1600

[Paul Donald]

Did you sell this? 

On Saturday, March 2, 2024 at 10:58:22 AM UTC-8 benjamin...@gmail.com wrote:

> Parting ways with my nearly new Rosco Platypus. Located in Chicago. More 
> pictures available upon request.
>
> Deore 11-speed crankset (32t/175mm crankarms)
> Deore 11-speed derailleur
> Deore 11-speed cassette (11-42)
> Deore 11-speed chain
> Microshift 11-speed thumbie
> Deore v-brakes/levers
> SKS b65 fenders
> Continental 700x50mm tires
> Ergon GC1 grips
> 65cm Rivendell Tosco bars with Nitto 31.8mm quill stem (4-bolt/removable 
> faceplate)
> Alex DM21 rims w/novatec hubs[image: IMG_1489.jpg]
>

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