[RBW] Re: Northern Hemisphere Summer 2024 Photos

[M Talley]

Hi Dave,
I'm curios about your silver Riv'd bike pictured. Is it old or new? It 
looks like a classic late 80s / early 90s MTB. Also your images remind me 
how I'd like to get back to Acadia. Having been there as a teen 
40-something years ago.
Another thing that brought my memories back - over this last winter I met a 
bike shop owner from near there in Maine. While out riding a greenway trail 
in NC,
Bob seemed to shadow me because I was riding a steel road bike - we had a 
good conversation.  I looked up his shop only by his first name (as he 
pointed out, the population of my major Southern city was more than all of 
Maine.)  He is Bob Shields of Southwest Cycle in Southwest Harbor, ME
- Mark - a very infrequent RBW group participant
On Thursday, June 27, 2024 at 6:36:01 PM UTC-4 DavidP wrote:

> Monday's 20 miles on the Acadia carriage roads was biggest ride we've done 
> as a family but everyone finished in good spirits - amazing riding and 
> scenery. Picnic lunch for five in the Happisack with room to spare.
>
> [image: GR001-05279_carriageroads-2038.jpg]
>
> [image: GR001-05310_gatehouse-2038.jpg]
>
> -Dave
>
> On Monday, June 24, 2024 at 6:50:59 PM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> My 200k brevet on Saturday included this view of Tomales Bay from the top 
>> of the Marshal Wall climb:
>>
>> https://flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/53813764533/in/dateposted/
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>>
>> On Monday, June 24, 2024 at 3:14:05 PM UTC-7 Ted Durant wrote:
>>
>>> Okay, it's officially summer. Near perfect conditions today, lots of 
>>> sun, not much wind (and what there was came of the lake so nice and cool), 
>>> fields starting to come up. It's been a wet spring so it's green green 
>>> green everywhere. Paradise Rd is ... paradise on wheels. Downhill this 
>>> direction.
>>>
>>> [image: IMG_2160.jpeg]
>>> [image: IMG_2163.jpeg]
>>>
>>> Ted Durant
>>> Milwaukee, WI USA
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: New Maxway catalog

[M Talley]

Long looking chain stays tho.

On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 9:24:10 AM UTC-4 Igor wrote:

> https://www.maxway-cycles.com/Y21T02-Trekking-Frame.html
>
> Platypus but not
>

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[RBW] Re: WTB-- size large washers for CX70 cantilevers

[M Talley]

I've wondered  if a shop that historically installed a lot of these would 
have a stock of the varied sizes leftover as stored parts. Rivendell 
probably built quite a few bikes with them and if they didn't always use a 
single size . . .? 
I have a set of these brakes with no spares and figured I'd ask there 
first. Haven't asked - haven't installed the brakes on any bike yet.
Mark

On Sunday, October 2, 2022 at 6:56:18 PM UTC-4 John M wrote:

> Very true Garth.  I'm not unwilling to kluge a solution together, and was 
> about to do that very thing, but thought I'd see if someone has these 
> sitting unused in a bin somewhere.  
>
> On Sunday, October 2, 2022 at 3:42:14 PM UTC-6 Garth wrote:
>
>> You know you could likely find your own washer "add-ons" at a hardware 
>> store. That right, use your existing washers and find a like ID and OD 
>> washer to those. Stack as many as you need for the extra 4mm, or more, or 
>> less. I'm all for using what you got when possible ! 
>>
>> On Sunday, October 2, 2022 at 5:09:10 PM UTC-4 John M wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Probably a long shot, but anyone hording bits and pieces from Shimano 
>>> CX70 cantilevers?  I've got the brakes, but need to swap out the medium 
>>> (14mm) washers for large (18mm) to fit a new frame. The CX50 version is 
>>> available, but I'm trying to keep everything matchy-matchy.  
>>>
>>>
>>> thanks!!
>>>
>>> john 
>>>
>>> Silver City, NM
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] New Roadinis will have clearance for 42 mm tires

[M Talley]

I was wondering about tire clearance and found a Soma Pescadero 
 (longer reach rim 
brake synergy between Riv and Merry Sales) with 44mm wide WTB Byways on 
Velocity A23 rims.  Even this doesn't look like it's maxed out. That's from 
the perspective of the brake arch only.  One has to wonder about getting an 
inflated wheel out  . .  quick vs not-so-quick.
The Roadinin's brake bridge is moved upward and the fork legs are longer 
but if all the rest is the same as the original designs it seems there are 
limits might be the widths of chain/seat stays and the width of the fork 
crown. Gotta wonder why the mind drifts towards even-wider tires.

On Tuesday, September 6, 2022 at 9:24:44 AM UTC-4 Andrew Turner wrote:

> Once these roadini's start getting built, I'd be curious to know what the 
> maximum size tire is with fenders. Seems like a solid rando option! 
> On Saturday, September 3, 2022 at 8:13:41 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> A very different wheel diameter and of course a different Rivendell 
>> frame, but depending on how precise the positioning of the brake mounting 
>> hole is placed in the crown, you might be able to use a normal reach single 
>> pivot.
>>
>> This is a Naches Pass measuring a bit over 41 mm on a 21 mm OW rim under 
>> the -- I forget; SunTour? Dia Compe? -- normal reach single pivot on my 
>> 1999 Joe Starck. Plenty of room, ditto in back.
>>
>> BTW, that single pivot with salmon Kool Stops is very strong and 
>> modulates very well.
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 3, 2022 at 12:09 PM Ryan  wrote:
>>
>>> Grand Cru do have a long-reach optionand are excellent paired with 
>>> TRP brake levers in my opinion...have this combo on my Riv Road with Barlow 
>>> Pass 32mm. Although...Velo-Orange brands 47-57mm as long reach and Roadini 
>>> specs specify 63mm of reachtoo bad...so yeah I guess V-brakes or cantis 
>>> would be more useful. Oh well
>>>
>>>
>>> https://velo-orange.com/collections/brakes/products/grand-cru-long-reach-brakes
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] ISO Frame Saver.

[M Talley]

Apologies, for the nerd-out dump: 
 A few years ago I was getting to the end of a can of Weigle's Frame 
Saver and bought Fluid Film based on this video. There is compelling 
testing laid out here.
"Real World Undercoating Test: Fluid Film, NH Oil, Krown and More..." 


When I went back to find that video I see the same youtuber has a new 
product he likes - Blaster Surface Shield Undercoating. This sounds 
similarly lanolin-based with an ability to penetrate nooks making it a 
better auto undercoating. Perhaps no better than FF for bikes?
"I Finally Found The Best Undercoating On The Market... Blaster Surface 
Shield" 

It's repeated around the internet - lanolin-based coatings out-perform 
wax-based.

On the topic of ED coating. I've been curious why this treatment isn't more 
prevalent. An odd case: QBP and it's brands with steel models - some, but 
not all models are coated. From hands-on (around 2016-19) experience I've 
seen Surly and All City frames (Bridge Club and Space Horse) with ED 
coatings and a Salsa without (Vaya). ED is applied to Surly steel 
handlebars (Moloko, Corner, Sunrise). So is pretty durable - my guess: more 
durable than powder coating but below plating (nickel, chrome). 

Looking at the described application process it is understandable why ED 
adds cost. Info from Handsome Cycles (Link to Wikipedia within their 
statements goes deeper): 
https://handsomecycles.com/blogs/culture-guide/what-does-ed-coating-mean-for-bicycles

Mark

P.S.
All of that and for perspective there is Grant's observations on untreated 
steel:
"But if rust were the tube-killer the carb-al-ti folks would have you 
believe, there wouldn't be hundreds of thousands of 30-year old and 
routinely neglected steel-framed bicycle still roaming the planet." from 
here 
On Monday, January 3, 2022 at 7:23:54 PM UTC-5 Hugh Smitham wrote:

> Garth,
>
> I deleted the original post because I answered the question for myself. 
>
> Hugh
>
> On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 1:54:51 PM UTC-8 Garth wrote:
>
>> It's odd that the original post was removed shortly after it was posted. 
>> I tried to reply but it was gone. 
>>
>> I'll use Boeshield spray for my next frame. 
>>
>> FWIW, Progold has a "Steel Frame Protector" spray of their own. It's 
>> shipable from a few online retailers. 
>>
>> Frame Saver was bought by Problem Solvers, aka QBP. 
>>
>>
>> https://www.bicycleretailer.com/product-tech/2019/08/15/frame-saver-becomes-problem-solvers-product-qbp
>>
>> On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 3:17:16 PM UTC-5 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> For a long time the original stuff was from Peter Weigle, I thought. 
>>> Perhaps it still is. Are Riv bikes not E.D. coated?
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Dec 31, 2021, at 5:46 PM, Hugh Smitham  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Apparently problem solver purchased frame saver, as far as I can tell 
>>> there are no online retailers selling an aerosol can of it,  perhaps it 
>>> can't be shipped because it's an aerosol can under pressure?  Anyone know 
>>> how I can get my hands on some? Maybe a retailer in the Los Angeles area? 
>>> For obvious reasons most bike stores are closed today through January 3rd.
>>>
>>> Happy New year!!
>>>
>>> Hugh
>>>
>>> -- 
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>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Thin Gripster alternatives?

[M Talley]

I second the Shimano platform pedal products. Specifically the 
non-series PD-GR500. These like the Saint MX80 model have Shimano's 
spindle/bearing cartridges with a pretty good track record. They are only 
slightly thicker than most of the thin pedals on the market but worth it 
for the durability.
Mark

On Monday, December 2, 2019 at 12:55:47 PM UTC-5, Kieran J wrote:
>
> I have multiple sets of the VP Thin Gripster/VP-001. Great pedals but they 
> have all developed clicking noises in the bearings. Some of mine have 
> relatively low miles so I'm wondering about their longevity. I note that 
> RBW sells a bearing service kit but IMO it's too expensive.
>
> Have others experienced this? Did you service the pedals or replace them 
> with something else? If so, what?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kieran
>
>

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[RBW] Re: New vs. old Homer geometry, ride characteristics

[M Talley]

I found this thread very helpful. Thanks Jason for asking. I have wondered 
the same thing. The input from both Toshi and Luis have helped me to a 
better understanding of the differences in ride qualities.

I'm also curious about how and when the long stay trend began. Is there 
blog entry? I remember something about a Surly Big Dummy used for cargo 
runs about the time some experimental builds.
Cheers,
Mark

On Friday, November 15, 2019 at 10:50:01 AM UTC-5, Jason Fuller wrote:
>
> Hi all, I apologize if this has been discussed to death already but I 
> couldn't find this specific topic discussed by searching. 
>
> I am curious if anyone here has riding experience with both the new 
> geometry Homer's and the old Waterford version, as they are extremely 
> different looking bikes! I can buy into the notion that most people ride 
> bikes with too-short chainstays, but I have to admit, I cannot fathom 
> wanting to ride a bike with 475mm stays for sporty purposes.  I was very 
> excited to see the price come down, but the new geometry was a deal-breaker 
> for me.  I adore the original Homer, at least on paper (and on screen) but 
> the new version just does not 'look' sporty at all - but I fully realize 
> you can't tell how it rides by staring at it!
>
> My thought was it's an artifact of Grant's changing priorities as he gets 
> older, which is completely valid, but I'm not ready to go there yet (still 
> in my 30's, so hanging onto sportier geometry!).  As such, I bought one of 
> the final Sam Hillbornes because I viewed it as the last of that generation 
> of Rivendell, the generation that I identify with.  
>
> Maybe one day I'll find a 52cm Homer with the old geometry, but I am 
> really hoping there is a new model coming out in the coming years that will 
> fill the gap between the new Homer and the 700c road models. It feels like 
> a pretty big gap to me! 
>
> Photo of my Sam attached for viewing pleasure.  
>

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[RBW] Re: Interesting refutation of Gary Taubes' obesity ideas

[M Talley]

I haven't read the refutation of Taubes (I likely will) but here I write a 
little bit of introduction (re-introduction) to Grant Petersen's world and 
my experiences, kind-of in order. If  can be made-sense-of it could add to 
this discussion.
=
I'm an old racer from the 80s and 90s who until this millennia my most 
distinct memories of Grant were his Bridgestone Catalog 1991 on Frame 
Stiffness (perhaps validated by Jan Heine) and his mensch-like advice from 
Bridgestone Catalog 1992 "How To Get Sponsored Even If You Aren't Famous". 
Too late for me but it left me with a positive feel and a wishing for a 
world with more of his type of advice. I have worked in shops over 30 years 
- the 2000s were a low-point if you were exposed to "racers" and non-racers 
crassly asking for handouts. 

I ran into a neighbor riding a Betty Foy 5 or 6 years ago that lead to a 
search of Rivendell online. I was surprised to have a video talk given by 
Gary Taubes as a top result. I watched it and then read both of his books. 
I absorbed as much as I could and practiced a keto diet for awhile. My 
health improved.

Somewhere in the same time frame I caught randomly PBS boadcast - a 
re-packaged BBC show "Michael Mosley presents Horizon: Eat, Fast and Live 
Longer". Turns out that was one episode from a series but it alone was a 
huge hit. It lead to books by Mosley on the topic - both expository and 
cookbook. Covered in that show was Dr. Valter Longo's research on aging and 
the discovery of the gene related to this puzzle - Insulin-like growth 
factor 1 (IGF-1)

The key point was science's gains in an understanding of the gene that cuts 
on facilitating  repair of the body when under the duress of a fast. I have 
(so have others) wondered if the same effect is benefited by a keto-diet 
and as I have recently learned the training effect of endurance exercise 
may do the same.

(a topic this could be loaded - take it with a grain of salt if need be - 
this is about calorie restriction)
"The Power of Community: How Cuba Survived Peak Oil" was a documentary I 
saw around the same period around 2006. Cuba's recovery from "The Special 
Period" (mid to late 1990s). The take-away is how the health improved and 
the average life span increased by 6 years if I recall. Results of an 
enforced diet and lifestyle - less food more exercise. There was enough 
hardship in this "experiment" that increased indicators of better health 
came as a surprise.
My take away - we live in a time of politics that are so distorted by 
economic boom that what conservative vs liberal means won't be accurate or 
clearly defined until the boom is over.  Essentially easy and abundant oil 
and the related vices of production from easy calories to easy cars 
(transportation/mobility) skew reality.

Related to rice (especially cold rice) and gut flora:
"Resistant starch is a carbohydrate that resist digestion in the small 
intestine and ferments in the large intestine. As the fibers ferment they 
act as a prebiotic and feed the good bacteria in the gut."
http://hopkinsdiabetesinfo.org/what-is-resistant-starch/

We are all creatures of: adaptation, our heredity and real (developed) 
world influences.
Our genes (our gut flora's genes), Our hormonal circumstances, and our 
lifestyle (diet and exercise) all play a part in this puzzle.

Apologies for the length of this post,
Mark (in agreement with: it's a great time - this search/debate on obesity)

On Friday, August 12, 2011 at 9:36:45 AM UTC-4, Justin, Oakland wrote:
>
>
> http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2011/08/carbohydrate-hypothesis-of-obesity.html
>
> I'm not an expert or have a strong opinion one way or another, I just 
> think it's fantastic that there's a debate searching for actionable ways to 
> control obesity in this country right now. 
>

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[RBW] Re: Where does "country biking" fit in?

[M Talley]

I have the Specialized Nimbus Sport tires which I see now I was off by .1" 
(too large) These are listed as 650bx2.3" as is  on the tire. I have them 
on the stock wheelset with WTB i29 rims. The stock tires are WTB Riddler 
comp 27.5x2.4". I haven't measured to see what how the actual width comes 
out.

I brought up the model bike Specialized Roll as a reference some time last 
year in a discussion here. The GBW  being capable of taking a 2.8" width 
tire mirrors the Bridge Club. The Specialized Roll is a 650b bike worth 
mentioning because of the rim brake models. When tires reach 2.3" / 2.4" to 
2.6" / 2.8" it is a benefit to mount on wider rims. Sourcing from Asia 
Specialized has used a 30mm wide rim-brake rim. It's non-branded but there 
are so few rim-brake rims made for the plus-size category - it seems worth 
mentioning.

The Nimbus tires are a value buy. Steel bead and not tubeless-ready but 
capable for urban use. I don't know of another tire like it on the market 
right now.


On Thursday, July 11, 2019 at 10:13:15 PM UTC-4, Mark in Beacon wrote:
>
> Mark, what 27.5 x 2.4 tires are you referring to here? (And are they on 
> non-disc rims?)
>
> Another Mark, in Beacon
>
> On Thursday, July 11, 2019 at 6:06:14 PM UTC-4, M Talley wrote:
>>
>> After riding 27.5 x 2.4" tires (changed to a road tread) This is perfect 
>> for all urban use and could see riding most (not all) terrain and doing so 
>> with a load. 
>>
>> The Gus Boots Willsen will be able to do the same so I rule it in as 
>> urban.
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Where does "country biking" fit in?

[M Talley]

I see a the UK slant. IMO more of US bike styles are in the "Urban Peloton" 
including country bikes and hill bikes. The bike I currently urban ride is 
a Surly Bridge Club.. After riding 27.5 x 2.4" tires (changed to a road 
tread) This is perfect for all urban use and could see riding most (not 
all) terrain and doing so with a load. I see Rivs as being practical and 
versatile and having more class.

The Gus Boots Willsen will be able to do the same so I rule it in as urban. 
I called my bike a truck when I bought it  With fenders and baskets a GBW 
it would be more a jalopy. Classy hobo, only now a with newer look and even 
more cushioned ride to enjoy. Maybe no slower at that if the BQ has a say.
Mark

On Thursday, July 11, 2019 at 4:10:14 AM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Another man's cycling typology. 
>
> [image: image.png]
>
> Wait, there's more!!
>
> https://cyclingcartoons.com/
>
> -- 
>
>
>
>
> **
>
>
>
>
>
> *Still 'round the corner there may waitA new road or a secret gate,And 
> though we pass them by today,Tomorrow we may come this wayAnd take the 
> hidden paths that runTowards the Moon or to the Sun.*
> --- J.R.R. Tolkien
> ---
> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews
> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching
> Other professional writing services
> Expensive! But good.
> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: "Sadly, Long Shen is closing" Another loss to lugged steel frame production

[M Talley]

I've wondered the same thing. Printed metal products have been shown at 
bespoked shows in titanium and steel. I wonder about the cost?

Newer technology has already entered the process in ways that save time / 
lower costs.  As Sachs mentions in that discussion at velocipedesalon 
<https://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/f2/fnl-531-a-52498.html> - having no 
"Solidworks files" would be a daunting setback. 3D modeling and design 
likely has replaced making a handcut lug for the original design along the 
way. 3D printing from that digital design is likely how the model is made 
that becomes the (lost) wax pattern that goes into making the multiple 
ceramic mold step. The ease of having a digital file that is where a small 
modification can be made is probably invaluable for the speed and keeping 
costs low (picture a 72° to 73° seat lug design change with just a quick 
tweek to a digital drawing).

It's a gritty looking process, the casting portion of making lugs. I'm sure 
there are reasons it still looks similar to the ways of the Bronze Age. 
Factors that effect the end product are likely still demanding of similar 
methods. It sounds like Matt Jacobs who posted above about his experiences 
could tell the story of methods new and old.

When I've wondered about modern 3D metal printing a thought about strength 
and durability always enters my mind. The parts may be equal but there must 
be a hardening process which is at least one more step to think about. It's 
the straightest line of process steps to an (close-to) equal part that 
would win. I've also pictured the 3D printing of the wax pattern piece as 
well? This could short-cut out one molding step. These are all questions 
for a manufacturing insider - which I am not.
Mark

On Thursday, July 11, 2019 at 1:56:23 PM UTC-4, lconley wrote:
>
> Maybe this is sacrilege, but can lugs be 3D printed at this point?
>
>  
>
> Laing
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
> *From:* rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com  <
> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com > *On Behalf Of *M Talley
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 11, 2019 1:17 PM
> *To:* RBW Owners Bunch >
> *Subject:* [RBW] Re: "Sadly, Long Shen is closing" Another loss to lugged 
> steel frame production
>
>  
>
> Yes, a nice inside story of a possible path forward for precision lugs and 
> thank you for that inside view from Taiwan. 
>
>  
>
> Sachs really sounds like he had covered his remaining production schedule. 
> He also mentioned having his "tools" returned - so the masters? for his 
> personal designs (26 different castings). I would imagine Rivendell's tools 
> are either going back to their hands or to the replacement casting company?
>
>  
>
> Fillet brazed is a path that makes sense when the recent designs are so 
> varied / non-standard. There's an inside story of fillet production told by 
> the young adventure bike brand's owner Cjell Mone. He is an experienced 
> builder and is impressed by the mastery of the Taiwan brazers whom he joins 
> in producing a run of his frames.
>
> https://bikepacking.com/plog/made-in-taiwan/ 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__bikepacking.com_plog_made-2Din-2Dtaiwan_=DwMFaQ=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM=fbpz-LhLhQnqxV9ePfEuoQ=C9eqydJHLtVX3nCeiPQgd41blyrrSU9hr1p7174qaug=6tbK0IKgidryqa2PlpKitkAoN0dz-ioH0s7KY5fCpUM=>
>
>  
>
> I agree, there are likely many other brands that need a supplier for 
> custom lugs. Just the number of suppliers and buyers / builders of 
> "generic" Long Shen lugs is a supply quantity that would be seeking a 
> replacement. So someone who can step in has to be eyeing that business.
>
>  
>
> This discussion in my mind is about the custom lugs that the eye 
> identifies as Rivendell - not the Henry James look. I would miss stock 
> Rivendells that aren't built to the old completely lugged standard. This is 
> a game of cost - quantity ordered, capacity to produce (possibly small 
> numbers)  in the general proximity (Taiwan) of the frame builder. The 
> challenge might be if a qualified producer is interested when there's 
> demand that pays top dollar for pricier technology-driven castings. My 
> fingers are crossed for continuity of this standard full-lugged frame type. 
> Perhaps the cost needs to increase to near custom MUSA for MIT.
>
>  
>
> I also apologize as well for my musing at length.
>
> Mark
>
>
> On Thursday, July 11, 2019 at 11:30:29 AM UTC-4, Matt Jacobs wrote:
>
> I have some on-site perspective to lend to this discussion - I apologize 
> in advance if I am somewhat long-winded. Hopefully you find it interesting 
> and somewhat engaging.
>
>  
>
> About three weeks ago, I got back from a two-month work study in Taiwan 
> 

[RBW] Re: "Sadly, Long Shen is closing" Another loss to lugged steel frame production

[M Talley]

Yes, a nice inside story of a possible path forward for precision lugs and 
thank you for that inside view from Taiwan. 

Sachs really sounds like he had covered his remaining production schedule. 
He also mentioned having his "tools" returned - so the masters? for his 
personal designs (26 different castings). I would imagine Rivendell's tools 
are either going back to their hands or to the replacement casting company?

Fillet brazed is a path that makes sense when the recent designs are so 
varied / non-standard. There's an inside story of fillet production told by 
the young adventure bike brand's owner Cjell Mone. He is an experienced 
builder and is impressed by the mastery of the Taiwan brazers whom he joins 
in producing a run of his frames.
https://bikepacking.com/plog/made-in-taiwan/

I agree, there are likely many other brands that need a supplier for custom 
lugs. Just the number of suppliers and buyers / builders of "generic" Long 
Shen lugs is a supply quantity that would be seeking a replacement. So 
someone who can step in has to be eyeing that business.

This discussion in my mind is about the custom lugs that the eye identifies 
as Rivendell - not the Henry James look. I would miss stock Rivendells that 
aren't built to the old completely lugged standard. This is a game of cost 
- quantity ordered, capacity to produce (possibly small numbers)  in the 
general proximity (Taiwan) of the frame builder. The challenge might be if 
a qualified producer is interested when there's demand that pays top dollar 
for pricier technology-driven castings. My fingers are crossed for 
continuity of this standard full-lugged frame type. Perhaps the cost needs 
to increase to near custom MUSA for MIT.

I also apologize as well for my musing at length.
Mark

On Thursday, July 11, 2019 at 11:30:29 AM UTC-4, Matt Jacobs wrote:
>
> I have some on-site perspective to lend to this discussion - I apologize 
> in advance if I am somewhat long-winded. Hopefully you find it interesting 
> and somewhat engaging.
>
> About three weeks ago, I got back from a two-month work study in Taiwan 
> through my university. While I was there, I worked for a company in the 
> Dadu district of Taichung, that does precision die casting, working 
> primarily in Aluminum, Magnesium, and Zinc. They're called Magic Precision 
> (here's 
> their website if you're curious ). Magic 
> Precision hasn't made many bicycle parts to my knowledge - they do make 
> some pretty cool parts though, such as laboratory equipment for National 
> Instruments, as well as the motor mounts, cooling fins, and other assorted 
> castings for a company in California called Zero, which is a manufacturer 
> of performance electric cycles...motorcycles, that is (almost had ya 
> there). They also make the housing for many popular e-cigarette brands, 
> too, which most of the workers find to be gross but a few are really on 
> board with. Along with many, many other interesting parts. 
>
> Every other week or so, my friend Nate and I would go with a few other 
> employees from Magic Precision with our manager, who would take us to visit 
> other companies in our area that we do business with. On one of these 
> visits, we went by a company that was similar to ours, a job shop in 
> essence...exclusively for lost-wax investment cast pieces, called Shin 
> Yih Precision Casting Co Ltd. 
>  I had done a 
> little investment casting when I took metals class two semesters ago, but 
> my dinky molds were no comparison to the absolute wonder that took place 
> before us. I'll let the pictures do most of the talking, but if you are 
> curious about what's happening here, this page from Rivendell's site 
> is a good primer on how 
> companies like Long Shen do their business. In fact, the video on Riv's 
> article could have been taken at Shin Yih, even though the two companies 
> are a district apart (about a 30 minute drive from Dajia district to 
> Qingshui district).
>
> 
> Here are some photos from my tour at Shin Yih. 
>  If you scroll down you can 
> see a few bicycle parts - most notably a nice sloping fork crown, a chain 
> tool, and a facing tool for canti brake bosses.
>
> Why do I share this? In my experience, each business in Taiwan is pretty 
> specialized to a niche industry - if there is sufficient demand, other 
> companies like Shin Yih will step up to fill in, in case Long Shen really 
> does bite the dust. The rumblings that they're on their way out would be 
> disappointing to many, including me, but there are many paths forward - 
> this is just one. This is only my supposition, of course, but Long Shen 
> likely wouldn't be doing too well if their only customers were Grant 
> Petersen, Kirk Pacenti, and Richard Sachs, and they have 

[RBW] Re: "Sadly, Long Shen is closing" Another loss to lugged steel frame production

[M Talley]

Ah yes, so this problem's arrival has been mentioned. The solution that is 
on-going and illustrated by that custom Nobilette build with lugged 
headtube top and bottom and seat tube/binder really illustrate where builds 
are currently with the production frames also. These changes might indicate 
there will be no more fully lugged production models going forward. The 
language of this statement would seem to suggest a change in the original 
ethos of the brand: 

"Lugs aren't necessary, but they add some non-genericness, and they add 
excitement to the bicycle archaeological finds of the future. That is the 
worst reason for building with them, but it's also undeniable."

The better reasons for building with lugs if left out of the discussion 
seems a change from Rivendell Bicycle Works' beginnings. A sad reality of 
the times? Does this eventually mean no more A. Homer Hilsen or Sam 
Hillborne or Cheviot?

On Wednesday, July 10, 2019 at 10:48:37 AM UTC-4, Johnny Alien wrote:
>
>
> https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/peeking-through-the-knothole/2019-no-6-early-march-brake-pads-free-books-more-bootses
>
> "We had a short scare from our lugmaker. Most of the employees are near 
> retirement, and they-the-owners aren't going to keep on making lugs for 
> multitudinous more years; but the scare was that -- for a while there -- it 
> looked like we wouldn't be able to get any more lugs, period. We were 
> living with that for three days, and came up with plan to deal with it. Now 
> we're set thru this year at least, and have the opportunity to buy tons for 
> the future. Lugs are expensive, so our capacity to buy is limited, but at 
> least we can get them."
>

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[RBW] Re: "Sadly, Long Shen is closing" Another loss to lugged steel frame production

[M Talley]

You've made me curious about this info having been mentioned earlier. I 
found this from earlier in the year RBW Owners Bunch but had no luck 
finding a Blagh entry:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-jLZY0dpWZ4/3YF_RVSCCgAJ
A mention of a "post-Long Shen world" and the "instability of the lug 
manufacturers" came up during the discussion about the early GBW sample. 
I've always assumed that the recent use of fillet joints was as much cost 
driven as it was by the freedom needed in new designs coming forth. A 
slacker seat angle where it meets longer chain stays or junction of a 
curved second top tube not to mention curved-for-clearance single top tube 
joint are all non-standard in the lug vernacular.
So this may be old news but what I found surprising in that link to the 
discussion joined by Richard Sachs. He is usually the calm voice. When True 
Temper called it quits it was his commentary "There's no crying in 
framebuilding. Notes from a cycling lifer on how to survive in the industry"
http://www.handbuiltbicyclenews.com/c47-people-0/195-richard-sachs-theres-no-crying-in-framebuilding-0
This made me think - yeah someone always steps in when there's a void. So 
(if this is true news) after all, was Long Shen indispensable? Who makes 
all of the creative newer design drop outs, fork tips and dropout lugs and 
crowns for All City, Surly, Tumbleweed etc? Perhaps the quality of Long 
Shen in the job of a more complicated and delicate lug isn't matched by 
anyone else. Why else would a Richard Sachs stockpile for the future?

On Monday, July 8, 2019 at 8:38:05 PM UTC-4, Johnny Alien wrote:
>
> I seem to remember a Blahg not so long ago in which Grant spoke about them 
> fearing about the lug manufacturing stopping.  I remember he said that they 
> worked out something that made him feel a bit better.  A huge stockpile of 
> lugs or something? I can't remember but I do think this was a concern so I 
> am not shocked if it's true.
>
> On Monday, July 8, 2019 at 6:30:36 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> I don't know anything about the details, or even if it is true.  If it is 
>> true, that sounds pretty scary for Rivendell, unless they've known about it 
>> and are proactively transitioning over to more lugless work.  Or maybe they 
>> have stocked up.  That's Rivendell's lug supplier.  
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Monday, July 8, 2019 at 12:19:27 PM UTC-7, M Talley wrote:
>>>
>>> I wondered if anyone here knew of this or more about the circumstances 
>>> of the closing of Long Shen?
>>> https://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/f2/fnl-531-a-52498.html
>>> I stumbled on this info while searching for the meaning of R. 
>>> Sachs B.I.F.I.™ . . .  YAS - Yet Another Sachsism
>>>
>>

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[RBW] "Sadly, Long Shen is closing" Another loss to lugged steel frame production

[M Talley]

I wondered if anyone here knew of this or more about the circumstances of 
the closing of Long Shen?
https://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/f2/fnl-531-a-52498.html
I stumbled on this info while searching for the meaning of R. 
Sachs B.I.F.I.™ . . .  YAS - Yet Another Sachsism

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[RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[M Talley]

I just mentioned the very rim that this bike needs in a post over at the 
650b group. The nature of that lament was the inability to get many rim 
brake 650b rims out of the supply source I checked. I looked no farther 
than QBP but even they don't sell the Alex rim that is stock on the Surly 
Pack Rat (650b rim brake model) I know that could change but a quick look 
shows a lot of rims for the class of bike Grant is outing as the leading 
trend style of bike - so disc only. The interesting rim that is on a stock 
bike and would suit the Hill bike is on the Specialize Roll. It is 30mm 
wide and has machined brake tracks. I wondered where one would get one if a 
wheel repair was needed. Grant may have ideas for sourcing solutions for 
some of these issues outed in this thread. It's the brakes that have me 
wondering.

On Monday, September 17, 2018 at 1:26:53 PM UTC-4, Kevin Mulcahy wrote:
>
> To me it looks like the top tube is too short if it’s designed around 
> swept back bars, which means you’re going to get handcuffed when riding 
> around switchback. 
>
> How many rims out there that are suited for plus sized tires, tubeless 
> compatible, and available for rim brake action? Slim pickens, no doubt. 
> Especially for the silver lovers. Any rim brake options in 29+? 
>
> I was hoping for more of a “high performance” all-rounder rigid mtb, like 
> a rethought MB-1 designed around some more progressive or modern examples 
> of mtb geometry. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[M Talley]

Speaking of fitting to bikes with 2.8 width tires. Can you imagine a 
V-brake that would work with that wide of a seat stays and have pads that 
reach the rims. It would seem they have to use cantilevers. Just wondering 
- maybe it has been done.
Mark

On Monday, September 17, 2018 at 6:36:09 AM UTC-4, Mark in Beacon wrote:
>
> Well, I don't think that's necessarily the case--I think there are plenty 
> of folks who wouldn't cotton to the newer generations of Rivendells, even 
> after a spin or two on one. While *I *think they offer a type of ride 
> that almost anyone would enjoy and benefit from, the new Rivs don't fit 
> everyone's perception of what they should be doing on a bicycle, how it 
> should look, etc., etc, etc. Hey, you can lead a horse to water. And that's 
> fine, as long as Rivendell can figure out how to sell enough to make a 
> decent living for everyone involved in the enterprise.  And I'm impressed 
> by Don's apparent faith, keeping track of Rivendell despite ZERO interest 
> in any of the bicycles released by the company in the last decade (the 
> Rodeo came out around this time in 2009.) Hope springs eternal!
>
> I think the Hill Bike looks wonderful, and with the conditions found on 
> many streets these days, it would make a sensible commuter for during the 
> week riding. Wonder what fenders would fit over the 2.8 x 27.5?
>
> On Sunday, September 16, 2018 at 10:51:08 PM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>> The "sweepback bar cruisers" ride great, as does my Roadini. In my 
>> opinion only someone who's never ridden the new models would dismiss them. 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[M Talley]

Interesting. I see the curved second top tube of the new Atlantis inverted 
here. Though probably thicker walled for this application. It reminds me 
how now I see bicycle design in terms of palettes of tube selections. After 
looking over what some of the new models out from Surly, All City and Salsa 
- specifically the models able to accept wide tire like this Hill bike - I 
thought these separate brands must share. To have a heavily shaped tube 
made and have it make sense by scales of economy the other two brands might 
look at it as a piece to add to a new model. Just guessing.

On Friday, September 14, 2018 at 11:43:49 PM UTC-4, Collin A wrote:
>
> Looks different, as all rivendell bikes do. It'll be interesting to see 
> how it rides and what the bike industry will think of it at the trade show.
>
> https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/peeking-through-the-knothole/all-about-ebikes
>
> Happy Saturday riding everyone,
> Collin
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Cheviotlantis

[M Talley]

I was thinking (wondering) if a Paul Racer could be used just before 
reading your mention of having done so.  Have you or has anyone you know of 
ever posted an image of how one might set the brake up?

On Saturday, September 2, 2017 at 3:05:51 PM UTC-4, adam leibow wrote:
>
> I have a 60cm chev and can't say enough good things about it, except for 
> the weird stuff I had to do to get the rear Paul Racer centerpull to work. 
> This color combo is definitely appealing. 
>
> On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 1:31:16 PM UTC-7, MartyG wrote:
>>
>> One of the nicest Cheviot's I've seen. It's on the 'Bay now. 
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>

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