RE: [RBW] Berthoud saddle twising on seat post... what is going on?
René I would blame the saddle. I would also write it off as a problem with a single saddle at this point not the Berthoud Touring Saddle as a brand defect. (unless it happens again of course) Send the pictures to the manufacture and I would bet they replace it for you. It’s to early to blame your riding style or to start paying for professional fits etc. Just my opinion. Kelly From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rene Sterental Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2011 9:39 PM To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Subject: [RBW] Berthoud saddle twising on seat post... what is going on? Hi all, To my utmost dismay, today I realized that my 3 month old Berthoud Touring saddle is all twisted on the seat post on my Atlantis. Please check how it looked in January when I installed it: http://tinyurl.com/4mw79ms and how it looked yesterday: http://tinyurl.com/4ea9qfe. I have posted some additional photos as well where you can check it from behind referencing the handlebar: http://tinyurl.com/4vbsdmf. It all happened because I got a second Berthoud saddle for my Homer and installed it yesterday. As I was checking to make sure that saddle position and height on the Homer was identical to the Atlantis, I noticed that the screwed rivet on the nose seemed to be pointing towards one side instead of pointing upwards. Further inspection from behind showed the left side significantly lower than the right side, and what appeared to be a twisted frame. When installing the Berthoud on the Homer, the distance between the rails is quite shorter than than the width of the rail tracks on the head of the Nitto S-83 seat post. The same was true on the Atlantis, but it wasn't quite so significant and this time I had to spend a significant amount of time slowly tightening the screws on the Nitto's head so the saddle rails would slide and get expanded to fit properly. The saddle on the Homer is very straight, just like the saddle on the Atlantis was at first. I don't know if my hips are twisted and/or one of my legs is shorter than the other one; I'm having problems on my right hip that coincidentally or not, started when I started riding the Brooks saddles on my Riv bikes. As I removed the Brooks saddle from the Atlantis to replace it with the Berthoud - the Atlantis is the bike I ride the most - I did notice that it seemed as if that saddle was starting to break in and the left side had a larger indentation making it a bit lower than the right side. At the time I dismissed it having read that it appeared that the newer Brooks saddles were not holding their shape very well and since I was swapping it for the Berthoud didn't pay any further attention to it. I then proceeded to remove the saddle from the seat post on the Atlantis to examine it (after taking the photos) and found the following: - The saddle seemed to straighten itself but I could twist it by hand quite easily and replicate the twist it had when mounted. - The screws on the rivets were a bit loose and I tightened them all - the saddle seemed to get a bit firmer and less twist prone but I could still twist it by hand. I then mounted the saddle on a Thomson Elite seat post and carefully adjusted its position and tightened slowly ensuring it was straight. After being tightened on the Thomson, I could no longer twist it by hand. I'm quite puzzled by all of this but am wondering if any of the following may be true: - My body is slowly twisting the saddle as I ride and my left seat bone is actually lower than the right one. On the Brooks saddle it seemed to start causing the leather to adapt to my derriere but on the Berthoud, the metal rails can twist on their plastic ends and therefore rather than the thicker leather adapting to my seat bones, the whole saddle has slowly twisted as the rails have slid even though the saddle was quite tight. - My right hip problem are the result of this twist that is probably in my body. I never had this problem when riding regular modern saddles, but for the past year+ all my rides were on leather saddles. I've gone back to riding clipped in instead of flats as that was another variable that changed at the same time. My right hip problem has been getting worse slowly over the past year, and nothing I've been able to do so far has really worked. I apologize for the very lengthy description, but I'm wondering if the saddle is just reflecting something that is wrong with my body while it should be staying straight to help it. When I rode my Atlantis, didn't feel at all that the left side was lower than the right side. Thinking back, about a month ago I moved the saddle further forward. To try to maintain its tilt I didn't loosen it too much, just enough to be able to push it forward by shoving it from behind. I wonder if it wasn't loose enough that my shoving caused the twist by pushing one rail further than the other one
Re: [RBW] Berthoud saddle twising on seat post... what is going on?
Iif you look at the photos from behind the rear cantle plate is lopsided. It certainly looks like a saddle failure. It almost looks like the left side saddle rail has been forced out of its pocket in the cantle plate and that this is what's twisting the nose. I'd inspect the the cantle plate for a crack above the saddle rail on the left side. I had a Brook Pro (still have it) which used to have a twisted nose like this. Turned out that the nosepiece was improperly formed; it was too wide and would slip over the support stop on one side. A minute with the bench vise fixed that and it's been fine for about 10 years now. My Lepper Voyageurs tend to have a slight twist to the nose, too, but it is minor and un-bothersome-y. On Mar 28, 2011, at 7:53 AM, Kelly Sleeper wrote: René I would blame the saddle. I would also write it off as a problem with a single saddle at this point not the Berthoud Touring Saddle as a brand defect. (unless it happens again of course) Send the pictures to the manufacture and I would bet they replace it for you. It’s to early to blame your riding style or to start paying for professional fits etc. Just my opinion. Kelly From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rene Sterental Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2011 9:39 PM To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Subject: [RBW] Berthoud saddle twising on seat post... what is going on? Hi all, To my utmost dismay, today I realized that my 3 month old Berthoud Touring saddle is all twisted on the seat post on my Atlantis. Please check how it looked in January when I installed it: http://tinyurl.com/4mw79ms and how it looked yesterday: http://tinyurl.com/4ea9qfe. I have posted some additional photos as well where you can check it from behind referencing the handlebar: http://tinyurl.com/4vbsdmf. It all happened because I got a second Berthoud saddle for my Homer and installed it yesterday. As I was checking to make sure that saddle position and height on the Homer was identical to the Atlantis, I noticed that the screwed rivet on the nose seemed to be pointing towards one side instead of pointing upwards. Further inspection from behind showed the left side significantly lower than the right side, and what appeared to be a twisted frame. When installing the Berthoud on the Homer, the distance between the rails is quite shorter than than the width of the rail tracks on the head of the Nitto S-83 seat post. The same was true on the Atlantis, but it wasn't quite so significant and this time I had to spend a significant amount of time slowly tightening the screws on the Nitto's head so the saddle rails would slide and get expanded to fit properly. The saddle on the Homer is very straight, just like the saddle on the Atlantis was at first. I don't know if my hips are twisted and/or one of my legs is shorter than the other one; I'm having problems on my right hip that coincidentally or not, started when I started riding the Brooks saddles on my Riv bikes. As I removed the Brooks saddle from the Atlantis to replace it with the Berthoud - the Atlantis is the bike I ride the most - I did notice that it seemed as if that saddle was starting to break in and the left side had a larger indentation making it a bit lower than the right side. At the time I dismissed it having read that it appeared that the newer Brooks saddles were not holding their shape very well and since I was swapping it for the Berthoud didn't pay any further attention to it. I then proceeded to remove the saddle from the seat post on the Atlantis to examine it (after taking the photos) and found the following: - The saddle seemed to straighten itself but I could twist it by hand quite easily and replicate the twist it had when mounted. - The screws on the rivets were a bit loose and I tightened them all - the saddle seemed to get a bit firmer and less twist prone but I could still twist it by hand. I then mounted the saddle on a Thomson Elite seat post and carefully adjusted its position and tightened slowly ensuring it was straight. After being tightened on the Thomson, I could no longer twist it by hand. I'm quite puzzled by all of this but am wondering if any of the following may be true: - My body is slowly twisting the saddle as I ride and my left seat bone is actually lower than the right one. On the Brooks saddle it seemed to start causing the leather to adapt to my derriere but on the Berthoud, the metal rails can twist on their plastic ends and therefore rather than the thicker leather adapting to my seat bones, the whole saddle has slowly twisted as the rails have slid even though the saddle was quite tight. - My right hip problem are the result of this twist that is probably in my body. I never had this problem when riding regular modern saddles, but for the past year
[RBW] Berthoud saddle twising on seat post... what is going on?
Hi all, To my utmost dismay, today I realized that my 3 month old Berthoud Touring saddle is all twisted on the seat post on my Atlantis. Please check how it looked in January when I installed it: *http://tinyurl.com/4mw79ms *and how it looked yesterday: *http://tinyurl.com/4ea9qfe*. I have posted some additional photos as well where you can check it from behind referencing the handlebar: *http://tinyurl.com/4vbsdmf*. It all happened because I got a second Berthoud saddle for my Homer and installed it yesterday. As I was checking to make sure that saddle position and height on the Homer was identical to the Atlantis, I noticed that the screwed rivet on the nose seemed to be pointing towards one side instead of pointing upwards. Further inspection from behind showed the left side significantly lower than the right side, and what appeared to be a twisted frame. When installing the Berthoud on the Homer, the distance between the rails is quite shorter than than the width of the rail tracks on the head of the Nitto S-83 seat post. The same was true on the Atlantis, but it wasn't quite so significant and this time I had to spend a significant amount of time slowly tightening the screws on the Nitto's head so the saddle rails would slide and get expanded to fit properly. The saddle on the Homer is very straight, just like the saddle on the Atlantis was at first. I don't know if my hips are twisted and/or one of my legs is shorter than the other one; I'm having problems on my right hip that coincidentally or not, started when I started riding the Brooks saddles on my Riv bikes. As I removed the Brooks saddle from the Atlantis to replace it with the Berthoud - the Atlantis is the bike I ride the most - I did notice that it seemed as if that saddle was starting to break in and the left side had a larger indentation making it a bit lower than the right side. At the time I dismissed it having read that it appeared that the newer Brooks saddles were not holding their shape very well and since I was swapping it for the Berthoud didn't pay any further attention to it. I then proceeded to remove the saddle from the seat post on the Atlantis to examine it (after taking the photos) and found the following: - The saddle seemed to straighten itself but I could twist it by hand quite easily and replicate the twist it had when mounted. - The screws on the rivets were a bit loose and I tightened them all - the saddle seemed to get a bit firmer and less twist prone but I could still twist it by hand. I then mounted the saddle on a Thomson Elite seat post and carefully adjusted its position and tightened slowly ensuring it was straight. After being tightened on the Thomson, I could no longer twist it by hand. I'm quite puzzled by all of this but am wondering if any of the following may be true: - My body is slowly twisting the saddle as I ride and my left seat bone is actually lower than the right one. On the Brooks saddle it seemed to start causing the leather to adapt to my derriere but on the Berthoud, the metal rails can twist on their plastic ends and therefore rather than the thicker leather adapting to my seat bones, the whole saddle has slowly twisted as the rails have slid even though the saddle was quite tight. - My right hip problem are the result of this twist that is probably in my body. I never had this problem when riding regular modern saddles, but for the past year+ all my rides were on leather saddles. I've gone back to riding clipped in instead of flats as that was another variable that changed at the same time. My right hip problem has been getting worse slowly over the past year, and nothing I've been able to do so far has really worked. I apologize for the very lengthy description, but I'm wondering if the saddle is just reflecting something that is wrong with my body while it should be staying straight to help it. When I rode my Atlantis, didn't feel at all that the left side was lower than the right side. Thinking back, about a month ago I moved the saddle further forward. To try to maintain its tilt I didn't loosen it too much, just enough to be able to push it forward by shoving it from behind. I wonder if it wasn't loose enough that my shoving caused the twist by pushing one rail further than the other one and then tightening it. Any feedback is much appreciated; I'll keep riding it and monitoring it to see if the twist returns or if it now preserves its correct shape. Thank you all! René -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Berthoud saddle twising on seat post... what is going on?
Confounded variables. Too many. But, you are on the right track. Isolate them. Control them. There are professionals who can measure your leg lengths and find a difference, but something is up. Is it the saddle? Loose bolts? Pedaling? The skeleton? Muscle strength? Pain is your guide, unfortunately. The pedal connection issue is another factor, for hips as well as knees as well as...it's a system. Seek balance. Check your mileage changes, effort changes , general health (age?), too. Molestem senectutem. Unless it's painful because of the saddle, it could easily be from another cause; changes in shape are breaking in, are the virtue of leather. No one is symmetrical, but overuse is a cause of pain, and position can trigger overuse, as can being restricted in movement. Wiggle and stand lots. Bill Gibson Tempe, Arizona, USA -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
