[RBW] Bike Fitting - A Mine Field
All Cross-checks in all sizes come out of the box with 300 mm steerers. With a 62 cm frame, there is nothing to cut off because the head tube is long enough to allow a stem and maybe an inch or two of spacers. The old Surly warranty stipulated that stem plus spacers shouldn't exceed 100 mm, but last year they changed that, and now they say there is no limit on steerer length. But this is important: with threaded steerers, the size of the frame determines how high you can get the bars. If you want high bars, get a big frame. This is the Rivendell way. This advice is completely worthless with threadless steerers like Surly uses, because all sizes can have the same handlebar height if you don't cut the steerer. So a 52 cm frame can theoretically fit exactly the same as a 58 cm frame if the stem length is long enough to make up the difference. Buying a Surly using the Riv sizing guideline apples-to-apples is quite likely to result in a bike that's on the too-big side. I will tell you that uncut steerers with a lot of spacers tend to get a lot of negative commentary. Our Surly floor bikes usually sport this feature, and everyday somebody asks me to justify it or comments that they don't like the look. Yet of the bikes that sell, only a small fraction come back to have the steerer shortened. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[RBW] Bike Fitting - A Mine Field
Jim, thanks for your most excellent info. To bike shops I'd say, leave the steerer uncut, place stem in midrange area with spacers above and below, and put up a sign saying the steerer will be cut/tailored to the buyer after purchase. If you don't want to do that for the carbon boys, I understand but we are talking tactical bikes here. Me thinks for any negative (uninformed) comments you may get, eventually, some people will sing the praises of the first shop that bothered to fit the bike to them, and they're now more comfortable than they've ever been. I can't describe the visceral (negative) reaction I have walking into a good shop, seeing a bunch of salsas and other interesting bikes I'd be interested in--but with their steerers all cut. They've basically handed me a fitting non-starter. Since I can do my own bike work, what I ask myself is, why should I buy the bike here when I can instead, look for a deal and get just want I want? I did buy a a salsa fargo at the lbs a while back. Yes, the steerer was cut. Yes, I regret doing so because it doesn't fit quite perfectly and I'd love to have a bit more height on the stem. Next time I'll be buying online or used. • Perry -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Bike Fitting - A Mine Field
Yes , Top Tube Length is Very Important from my perspective ! Besides the height of the head tube, TT is near the top of my list for importance , along with chainstay length and front-center. The length of the TT affects how one is centered in the bicycle. A short or long stem in an attempt to compensate just adds to the weirdness ! On Saturday, July 27, 2013 9:44:51 AM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote: Note however that **top tube does matter**!! And that top tubes generally grow longer as seat tubes rise -- something to take into account. My Herse fit perfectly with the 60 cm st because the tt was only 57 cm (both c-c). ** It matters because you generally want a particular kind of bar with a given amount of sweepback, and you generally want this bar at a certain level relative to the seatpost. Sure, I could ride a 65 cm tt with an Albatross bar 8 above the saddle on a 6 cm stem, but that's not the cockpit I want. -- http://resumespecialties.com/index.html patric...@resumespecialties.com javascript: http://www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ Albuquerque, NM -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[RBW] Bike Fitting - A Mine Field
My friend was in the market for a new bicycle with a budget of around $800.00. He'd looked at various aluminum mountain bikes and talked to me about it - he'd mentioned that he'd possibly like a single speed. I suggested he check out the Surly line of bikes and maybe push his budget a little and get something he'd really enjoy. Being a Rivendell owner (recent acquisition) and having followed this list and GP's writings for the last few years, I have certain ideas about bicycle fit. Not being a crotch-worrier, I like to start with the largest straddle-able frame and work from there. A fist-full of seat post, bars around saddle height etc. Using this formula as a starting basis, I urged my friend to try a 62cm Crosscheck (a single speed). He loved it. The store was adamant that a 58cm was he needed, with the saddle jacked up a good two fist-fulls and the bars well below the saddle height, because that's where the power is. My friend test rode the 58, the 60 and then the 62cm and there was no way he was going back. The steerer tubes on all sizes had been cut quite low, but on the 62cm, the set-up worked perfectly for my friend. The mechanic was not happy about this and I was the unwelcome expert-friend, even though they made the sale and my friend rode out the store on his new bike. The one he wanted. I suppose we all get locked into ideas and philosophies, but without my input (as right or wrong as it may be), they would have sized him by putting the saddle height above his hip bone and made the bars a few inches below saddle height. This was their fitting method. At the end of the day, my friend is delighted - he exceeded his budget by $175 and got a very pretty bicycle that has clearance for 700 x 45 with fenders. Even with my pretty LL there, I was jealous of his purchase. The shop had never heard of Rivendell, which made me wonder just how small a corner of the bike world I must live in, hanging out here on the RBW list. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Bike Fitting - A Mine Field
Good on yer for sticking to your guns. A few years ago I scotched a sale at a LBS when a clerk was trying to sell a 56 cm road frame to a 6'4 young man (I, 5'10, was riding a 60 cm Herse at the time). Note however that **top tube does matter**!! And that top tubes generally grow longer as seat tubes rise -- something to take into account. My Herse fit perfectly with the 60 cm st because the tt was only 57 cm (both c-c). ** It matters because you generally want a particular kind of bar with a given amount of sweepback, and you generally want this bar at a certain level relative to the seatpost. Sure, I could ride a 65 cm tt with an Albatross bar 8 above the saddle on a 6 cm stem, but that's not the cockpit I want. On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 3:02 AM, IanA attew...@gmail.com wrote: My friend was in the market for a new bicycle with a budget of around $800.00. He'd looked at various aluminum mountain bikes and talked to me about it - he'd mentioned that he'd possibly like a single speed. I suggested he check out the Surly line of bikes and maybe push his budget a little and get something he'd really enjoy. Being a Rivendell owner (recent acquisition) and having followed this list and GP's writings for the last few years, I have certain ideas about bicycle fit. Not being a crotch-worrier, I like to start with the largest straddle-able frame and work from there. A fist-full of seat post, bars around saddle height etc. Using this formula as a starting basis, I urged my friend to try a 62cm Crosscheck (a single speed). He loved it. The store was adamant that a 58cm was he needed, with the saddle jacked up a good two fist-fulls and the bars well below the saddle height, because that's where the power is. My friend test rode the 58, the 60 and then the 62cm and there was no way he was going back. The steerer tubes on all sizes had been cut quite low, but on the 62cm, the set-up worked perfectly for my friend. The mechanic was not happy about this and I was the unwelcome expert-friend, even though they made the sale and my friend rode out the store on his new bike. The one he wanted. I suppose we all get locked into ideas and philosophies, but without my input (as right or wrong as it may be), they would have sized him by putting the saddle height above his hip bone and made the bars a few inches below saddle height. This was their fitting method. At the end of the day, my friend is delighted - he exceeded his budget by $175 and got a very pretty bicycle that has clearance for 700 x 45 with fenders. Even with my pretty LL there, I was jealous of his purchase. The shop had never heard of Rivendell, which made me wonder just how small a corner of the bike world I must live in, hanging out here on the RBW list. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- http://resumespecialties.com/index.html patrickmo...@resumespecialties.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ Albuquerque, NM -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Bike Fitting - A Mine Field
my favorite bike shop quote, yeah, we know a lot more about fit than they did back then On Saturday, July 27, 2013 8:44:51 AM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote: Good on yer for sticking to your guns. A few years ago I scotched a sale at a LBS when a clerk was trying to sell a 56 cm road frame to a 6'4 young man (I, 5'10, was riding a 60 cm Herse at the time). Note however that **top tube does matter**!! And that top tubes generally grow longer as seat tubes rise -- something to take into account. My Herse fit perfectly with the 60 cm st because the tt was only 57 cm (both c-c). ** It matters because you generally want a particular kind of bar with a given amount of sweepback, and you generally want this bar at a certain level relative to the seatpost. Sure, I could ride a 65 cm tt with an Albatross bar 8 above the saddle on a 6 cm stem, but that's not the cockpit I want. On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 3:02 AM, IanA atte...@gmail.com javascript:wrote: My friend was in the market for a new bicycle with a budget of around $800.00. He'd looked at various aluminum mountain bikes and talked to me about it - he'd mentioned that he'd possibly like a single speed. I suggested he check out the Surly line of bikes and maybe push his budget a little and get something he'd really enjoy. Being a Rivendell owner (recent acquisition) and having followed this list and GP's writings for the last few years, I have certain ideas about bicycle fit. Not being a crotch-worrier, I like to start with the largest straddle-able frame and work from there. A fist-full of seat post, bars around saddle height etc. Using this formula as a starting basis, I urged my friend to try a 62cm Crosscheck (a single speed). He loved it. The store was adamant that a 58cm was he needed, with the saddle jacked up a good two fist-fulls and the bars well below the saddle height, because that's where the power is. My friend test rode the 58, the 60 and then the 62cm and there was no way he was going back. The steerer tubes on all sizes had been cut quite low, but on the 62cm, the set-up worked perfectly for my friend. The mechanic was not happy about this and I was the unwelcome expert-friend, even though they made the sale and my friend rode out the store on his new bike. The one he wanted. I suppose we all get locked into ideas and philosophies, but without my input (as right or wrong as it may be), they would have sized him by putting the saddle height above his hip bone and made the bars a few inches below saddle height. This was their fitting method. At the end of the day, my friend is delighted - he exceeded his budget by $175 and got a very pretty bicycle that has clearance for 700 x 45 with fenders. Even with my pretty LL there, I was jealous of his purchase. The shop had never heard of Rivendell, which made me wonder just how small a corner of the bike world I must live in, hanging out here on the RBW list. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.comjavascript: . Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- http://resumespecialties.com/index.html patric...@resumespecialties.com javascript: http://www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ Albuquerque, NM -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
