Re: [RBW] Dynamo Hub Recommendations

[Patrick Moore]

Perhaps; but it apparently saw her through several pretty darned long and
grueling rides.

On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 5:31 PM Bill Schairer  wrote:

> On the other hand, I try to remember that the Wilcox’s and King’s of the
> world are sometimes/often being paid to make the selections they do.  Kinda
> like Joe Namath using Aqua Velva?
>
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Re: [RBW] Dynamo Hub Recommendations

[Bill Schairer]

On the other hand, I try to remember that the Wilcox’s and King’s of the world 
are sometimes/often being paid to make the selections they do.  Kinda like Joe 
Namath using Aqua Velva?

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Re: [RBW] Dynamo Hub Recommendations

[Patrick Moore]

Joe Ramey?

On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 5:00 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> I have to agree with -- whatzisname? --
>

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Re: [RBW] Dynamo Hub Recommendations

[Patrick Moore]

I have to agree with -- whatzisname? -- here. I'm quite happy to spend more
for bling, just as I am happy to spend more for a custom Riv with pretty
lugs and paint instead of saving money with something more pedestrian but,
per relevant "KPIs," just as effective. And IME, not inconsiderable, the
SPs are just as good practically as the SONs, unless you ride daily in rain
and store your bike indoors in temps far warmer than outdoors during heavy
winter seasons. If one's metrics were solely practical, then few of us
would be on this list.

OTOH, I can see Jims POV; only, Rael Wilcox chose an SP hub with K-Lite
setup for her, well, traumatically-long, even epic, rides, and far more
solid than my own experience, her's provides a very strong recommendation.

Also, I have to agree with what seems to be a majority that the SON
connectors are more complicated and harder to use than the SP/Shimano type.
I can't imagine anyone losing a part for a SP or Shimano connector even
along the longest route; how would you manage that?

Pax. Each to his or her own. I use Dura Ace 7410 f and r derailleurs on my
Matthews Road Bike For Dirt, and 7400 (?) 1-sided Dura Ace SPDs on my Riv
fixed gofast, for no practical reason at all, just for style. The style
makes me happy. End of equation.

On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 4:13 PM Jim Bronson  wrote:

> I read this older thread with interest.  None of the responses strike me
> as more "wrong" as this one, to each their own, but defining usage by how
> shiny a widget is seems very, very wrongheaded.
>
> To me, it isn't how nice the bike is that determines what dynamo hub you
> put on it.  It's what you're going to do with your bike.
>
> My SonDeluxe widebody is not on my "nicest" bike.  It is on the bike that
> I use for Randonneuring rides.  It must perform day and night under all
> weather conditions without fail and without worry.  I've been in some
> pretty out of the way places with it where help would be many hours away.
> I do carry battery backups on any out of the way ride but when I'm
> struggling away up the umpteenth roller at way past o'dark thirty trying to
> stay hydrated and nourished, I do not want to think about my dynamo hub
> under any circumstances.
>
> When I finally get my gumption up to go back to PBP, it will only be with
> a SON dynamo hub.
>
> I also own Shimano and SP hubs but they are used for more pedestrian
> pursuits.  I haven't had any issues with them.
>
> P.S:  The SON spade connectors are not difficult to use, I'm not sure
> where that idea came from, either.  I think they are superior to the
> Shimano/SP design because there are no parts to lose.  It's easy to
> misplace the cap of the other design.
>
> YMMV.
>
> Jim
> Austin MSA, TX
>
>
>
> On Sun, May 17, 2020 at 2:47 PM masmojo  wrote:
>
>> Eric, I've put SP Hubs on "Nice" bikes too; I just don't think I'd throw
>> down $240+ on a SON hub unless it was a bike that was worthy. SP's are (or
>> were) good for those builds where you want something a little nicer than a
>> Shimano, but a SON is out of the question. Ideal for a Clem., even a
>> Cheviot or a Sam, but any nicer than that I am likely to want the SON. My
>> exception to that would be some thru-axle applications and some of my
>> recent builds where I  have a second set of wheels. One set of wheels might
>> be nicer than the other. SON on the primary set & SP on the second set.
>>
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Re: [RBW] Dynamo Hub Recommendations

[Jim Bronson]

I read this older thread with interest.  None of the responses strike me as
more "wrong" as this one, to each their own, but defining usage by how
shiny a widget is seems very, very wrongheaded.

To me, it isn't how nice the bike is that determines what dynamo hub you
put on it.  It's what you're going to do with your bike.

My SonDeluxe widebody is not on my "nicest" bike.  It is on the bike that I
use for Randonneuring rides.  It must perform day and night under all
weather conditions without fail and without worry.  I've been in some
pretty out of the way places with it where help would be many hours away.
I do carry battery backups on any out of the way ride but when I'm
struggling away up the umpteenth roller at way past o'dark thirty trying to
stay hydrated and nourished, I do not want to think about my dynamo hub
under any circumstances.

When I finally get my gumption up to go back to PBP, it will only be with a
SON dynamo hub.

I also own Shimano and SP hubs but they are used for more pedestrian
pursuits.  I haven't had any issues with them.

P.S:  The SON spade connectors are not difficult to use, I'm not sure where
that idea came from, either.  I think they are superior to the Shimano/SP
design because there are no parts to lose.  It's easy to misplace the cap
of the other design.

YMMV.

Jim
Austin MSA, TX



On Sun, May 17, 2020 at 2:47 PM masmojo  wrote:

> Eric, I've put SP Hubs on "Nice" bikes too; I just don't think I'd throw
> down $240+ on a SON hub unless it was a bike that was worthy. SP's are (or
> were) good for those builds where you want something a little nicer than a
> Shimano, but a SON is out of the question. Ideal for a Clem., even a
> Cheviot or a Sam, but any nicer than that I am likely to want the SON. My
> exception to that would be some thru-axle applications and some of my
> recent builds where I  have a second set of wheels. One set of wheels might
> be nicer than the other. SON on the primary set & SP on the second set.
>
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Re: [RBW] Dynamo Hub Recommendations

[masmojo]

Eric, I've put SP Hubs on "Nice" bikes too; I just don't think I'd throw down 
$240+ on a SON hub unless it was a bike that was worthy. SP's are (or were) 
good for those builds where you want something a little nicer than a Shimano, 
but a SON is out of the question. Ideal for a Clem., even a Cheviot or a Sam, 
but any nicer than that I am likely to want the SON. My exception to that would 
be some thru-axle applications and some of my recent builds where I  have a 
second set of wheels. One set of wheels might be nicer than the other. SON on 
the primary set & SP on the second set. 

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Re: [RBW] Dynamo Hub Recommendations

[John Casteen]

Replying to Teague and the original poster, I have one bike with a SON delux 
and another with a Kasai.  Haven't had any trouble with either-- dirt, rain, 
whatever.  I honestly don't know how they compare in terms of current 
generation, bearing size, or anything like that, though I've heard that the SON 
is a beast to rebuild.  The light output from the SON is steadier at low 
speeds, but that's the only difference I notice.  I went with the Kasai on 
Riv's recommendation and have been really happy with it.  

--John

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Re: [RBW] Dynamo Hub Recommendations

[lambbo]

I have SP hub I got in 2015 and it’s been locked up on the streets of NYC since 
then, no issues at all! Winters, salt, an accident, it’s absolutely INCREDIBLE! 

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Re: [RBW] Dynamo Hub Recommendations

[Drw]

I’ll also recommend sp hubs. I’ve had 3 or 4 and all worked well without issue. 
I was surprised that rich at rivendell won’t build wheels with them anymore. 
Maybe not an issue to some, but another thing to consider is the wiring 
interface at the hub which is very easy with the shimano/sp design but seems 
much more complex with the son hubs

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Re: [RBW] Dynamo Hub Recommendations

[somervillebikes]

Bicycle Belle,

Full disclosure: I sell SP dynamo hubs.

That said, I have three SP hubs on personal bikes, the oldest of which I 
built into a wheel in 2015 on my Bike Friday cargo bike, which, due to its 
size, cannot fit in my shed or basement, therefore it lives outside 
year-round in New England weather. That hub has survived quite well after 
five years outside, no issues whatsoever. My other two SP hubs are on bikes 
that are stored indoors, but still have encountered plenty of rainy rides, 
and no issues. Do note that New England climate is harsh, from deep 
freezes, salty slushy roads, lots of freeze-thaw cycles, and blistering 
summer heat and humidity.

As a dealer for SP, I have had two returns in total: one due to seized 
bearings after riding in winter salt and then put into storage for a few 
weeks. The other had a faint ticking sound when new that was barely audible 
and needed a stethoscope to hear, but the customer nonetheless wanted a new 
one. 

SON is the gold standard, no doubt about it. I have one as well. You can't 
go wrong with one. But they cost twice as much as SP hubs.

SP does have a repair program for after the warranty expires, wherein they 
will rebuild the bearings for a nominal fee.

Personally I now stay away from Shimano. I have two on personal bikes (I 
have five dynamo bikes in total), and one's been fine but the other 
developed a loud ticking noise, probably a bearing. And the vibration of 
the hub through the handlebars is more noticeable than with either the SP 
or SON hubs, which feel equivalent. The Shimano has the oldest design of 
all three brands, and is also the heaviest (not that that matters to most 
RBW listers).

Anton
velolumino.com



On Tuesday, May 12, 2020 at 10:32:19 AM UTC-4, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:
>
> Eric - how long does the bike have to be exposed to rain before it becomes 
> an issue for the SP hub? (Analog has just sent me my first ever set of 
> custom wheels, complete with dyno and (SP in front) and I am so excited.) I 
> take a cross-country road trip from Vegas to MN every summer and we will 
> usually drive through showers on our way. Just wondering if that will be an 
> issue...
>
> Thanks!
> Leah
>

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Re: [RBW] Dynamo Hub Recommendations

[Teague Scott]

Anyone have experience with the Kasai hub that Riv and Soma Fab carry? They 
look to be on par with the SP.

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Re: [RBW] Dynamo Hub Recommendations

['Eric Norris' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Leah:

I’ve ridden SP hubs in the rain many times. The seals are fine. On those rides, 
the air inside the hub was the same temperature as the air outside.

However … If you have your bike sitting in a nice, warm garage or living room 
and wheel it out into a cold, wet day, the air inside will contract as it cools 
to match the outside. As it does, it will tend to want to draw air into the 
hub, and along with that air will come moisture. SON hubs deal with this by 
having seals *and* a device that lets air in to equalize pressure but keeps 
moisture out. SP hubs don’t; they just have seals.

As I mentioned, this is only an issue when you go directly from warm/dry to 
cold/wet. If you put your bike outside for a few minutes on a cold dry porch to 
let the hub acclimate before it gets wet (or if you don’t do the warm/dry to 
cold/wet thing), SP hubs will be fine. If you head out into a warm monsoon 
rain, pressure compensation probably wouldn’t be an issue.

SON is made in Germany, where I expect many riders keep their bikes inside the 
house and then go directly out into the rain. The pressure compensating feature 
probably means more to them than to someone from, say, Arizona.

Hope this helps! I know Peter White is on this list, so perhaps he can shed 
some more light on this.

--Eric Norris
campyonly...@me.com
www.campyonly.com
campyonlyguy.blogspot.com

> On May 12, 2020, at 7:32 AM, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>  wrote:
> 
> Eric - how long does the bike have to be exposed to rain before it becomes an 
> issue for the SP hub? (Analog has just sent me my first ever set of custom 
> wheels, complete with dyno and (SP in front) and I am so excited.) I take a 
> cross-country road trip from Vegas to MN every summer and we will usually 
> drive through showers on our way. Just wondering if that will be an issue...
> 
> Thanks!
> Leah
> 
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Re: [RBW] Dynamo Hub Recommendations

[Patrick Moore]

On the Boblist Anton Tutter, resident lighting expert, uses and sells SPs,
and said that the one of his bikes that has seen regular winter use in snow
and outdoor storage has an SP and it has been trouble free for 5 years.

Driving rain on top of a car at 75 mph -- that is a new one, though.

On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 8:32 AM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
jonasandle...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Eric - how long does the bike have to be exposed to rain before it becomes
> an issue for the SP hub? (Analog has just sent me my first ever set of
> custom wheels, complete with dyno and (SP in front) and I am so excited.) I
> take a cross-country road trip from Vegas to MN every summer and we will
> usually drive through showers on our way. Just wondering if that will be an
> issue...
>
> Thanks!
> Leah
>
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Re: [RBW] Dynamo Hub Recommendations

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

Eric - how long does the bike have to be exposed to rain before it becomes an 
issue for the SP hub? (Analog has just sent me my first ever set of custom 
wheels, complete with dyno and (SP in front) and I am so excited.) I take a 
cross-country road trip from Vegas to MN every summer and we will usually drive 
through showers on our way. Just wondering if that will be an issue...

Thanks!
Leah

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Re: [RBW] Dynamo Hub Recommendations

['Eric Norris' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I agree with everything here, except that I have put SP hubs on “nice” bikes.

The only thing I would add is that SON hubs are pressure-compensated so that if 
you take them from a warm, dry place directly to a cold, wet place (like a cold 
rainy ride) they won’t suck moisture into the hub as the air inside cools down 
and contracts. I never do that, so SP hubs, which are nicely sealed but lack 
that feature, work great for me.

--Eric Norris
campyonly...@me.com
www.campyonly.com
campyonlyguy.blogspot.com

> On May 12, 2020, at 3:57 AM, masmojo  wrote:
> 
> The SON hubs are pretty much considered the best, but as you say, very 
> spendy. Weather it's worth the expense or not depends on how you use them & 
> the specific application. 
> I've got several of each brand, typically I go for the SP. It's a very good 
> quality unit for a reasonable cost.
> But, other factors I would consider. If it's going to be used in the city or 
> parked on the street a lot you might opt for the Shimano; if you shop around 
> a bit you can find them cheap and then if it gets stolen, no big deal.
> 
> If you only have one or two bikes, they are both super nice and you have a 
> secure parking area, go SON.
> If money is a little tight or it's not a super nice bike, you'll be more than 
> satisfied with the SP.
> 
> The Shimano is perfectly satisfactory otherwise. 
> 
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[RBW] Dynamo Hub Recommendations

[masmojo]

The SON hubs are pretty much considered the best, but as you say, very spendy. 
Weather it's worth the expense or not depends on how you use them & the 
specific application. 
I've got several of each brand, typically I go for the SP. It's a very good 
quality unit for a reasonable cost.
But, other factors I would consider. If it's going to be used in the city or 
parked on the street a lot you might opt for the Shimano; if you shop around a 
bit you can find them cheap and then if it gets stolen, no big deal.

If you only have one or two bikes, they are both super nice and you have a 
secure parking area, go SON.
If money is a little tight or it's not a super nice bike, you'll be more than 
satisfied with the SP.

The Shimano is perfectly satisfactory otherwise. 

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[RBW] Dynamo Hub Recommendations

[Ian A]

Edited:

They're all three good options. I have 2x SON28 Classic (the older version) and 
1x Shimano DH3n80 (Ultegra level). I'm happy with them.
One of the SON hubs required servicing. I had been using it on my winter 
commuter and think I must have submerged it at some point in the spring thaw. 
It's possible the minus 25 Celcius temperatures also did it in. I had the hub 
serviced at great expense, but it came back as good as new. I now run battery 
lights on the winter bike and have the dynamos on my nice bikes.

My first choice nowadays would be a Shutter Precision SV9. It's small, 
light-weight and really efficient. Designed for 20" wheels, but fine on 700c 
for running front and rear lights. The price is reasonable too.

If you're looking to charge phone or GPS etc., maybe the PV8 is a better option.

Anton Tutter of Velo Lumino in Somerville MA is the expert and a dealer of SP 
stuff. Www.Velolumino.com/shop/shutter-precision-hubs/8.

IanA Alberta Canada

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[RBW] Dynamo Hub Recommendations

[Ian A]

They're all three good options. I have 2x SON28 Classic (the older version) and 
1x Shimano DH3n80 (Ultegra level). I'm happy with them.

One of the SON hubs required servicing. I had been using it on my winter 
commuter and think I must have submerged it at some point in the spring thaw. 
It's possible the minus 25 Celcius temperatures also did it in. I had the hub 
serviced at great expense, but it came back as good as new. I now run battery 
lights on the winter bike and have the dynamos on my nice bikes.

My first choice nowadays would be a Shutter Precision SV9. It's small, 
light-weight and really efficient. Designed for 20" wheels, but fine on 700c 
for running front and rear lights. The price is reasonable too.

If you're looking to charge phone or GPS etc., maybe the SV8 is a better 
option. 

Anton Tutter of Velo Lumino in Somerville MA is the expert and a dealer of SP 
stuff. Www.Velolumino.com/shop/shutter-precision-hubs/8.

IanA Alberta Canada

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[RBW] Dynamo Hub Recommendations

[Jonathan D.]

I was curious what folks experience are with the different dynamo hub 
options.  The Schmidt Sonn Dynamo hub seem to set the standard but at a 
high cost.  The other two I was looking at are Shutter Precision and the 
Shimano Dynamo hubs.  Anyone seen a good comparison? Should I be concerned 
with reliability if I went with something cheaper than the Schmidt hub?

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