Re: [RBW] Horizontal Drop outs??? was: Bombadil v. 2.0 and new Fatty Rumpkins
You don't need a tensioner to use single speed or internally geared hub with vertical dropouts. You can use a ghost chainring - an old granny chainring will do the trick. Google the term to find some pictures. http://www.mtbr.com/ssfaqcrx.aspx#ssConversionsChainTension has useful information on various ways to tension a single speed, including the ghost chainring. On 26/03/13 00:56, Jonathan Poor wrote: Oops, I see that Jim has said why verticals are considered better for geared bikes. But I guess I'd trade those advantages for the ability to change over to a single cog or internal gear hub without using a tensioner. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Horizontal Drop outs??? was: Bombadil v. 2.0 and new Fatty Rumpkins
Oops, I see that Jim has said why verticals are considered better for geared bikes. But I guess I'd trade those advantages for the ability to change over to a single cog or internal gear hub without using a tensioner. (BTW, Jim, I am one of your "followers" -- not sure how that happened, but I enjoy getting your "feed" as it were...) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Horizontal Drop outs??? was: Bombadil v. 2.0 and new Fatty Rumpkins
I should have pointed out first that I love the Black Bomba, and the two-pulley tensioner does look nice, (even if it does resemble a derailleur... :>}) But horizontal dropouts were part of the early Rivendell canon. Vertical dropouts were seen as less flexible. Say, for example, you wanted to convert your bike to an internal gear hub. There were paragraphs in the Riv literature extolling the virtues of long dropouts with lots of eyelets When my Riv road was built in 1998, horizontal dropouts were the standard. And not just on the Waterford builds (mine is a Joe Starck). Granted, at the time, there were fewer options -- all these tensioners didn't exist yet.) Not sure why folks say verticals are better for geared bikes. There is one advantage of verticals not yet mentioned: you can get your maximum width fat tire in there without the tire banging into the seat tube -- sometimes, you might even have deflate the tire... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Horizontal Drop outs??? was: Bombadil v. 2.0 and new Fatty Rumpkins
I agree with Jim that vertical drop outs are preferable for geared bikes. Though for me it is not a huge issue as none of my 3 geared bikes have vertical dropouts. Dan Abelson St. Paul, MN On Mar 22, 2013 7:27 AM, "Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery" wrote: > Aside from fixed-gear conversions (not ideal with Riv's low BBs), I don't > see many advantages to a traditional horizontal dropout. With freewheeling > singles or IGHs, a chain tensioner is a good solution. A lot of people have > a reflexive distrust of chain tensioners, but a quality tensioner > (especially the Rohloff) is a wonderful thing. Of course, a tensioner > detracts from the clean chainline that is apparently the defining hallmark > of a good single-cog bike. > > But Riv is not really a single-speed brand, nor has Riv ever made any > effort to promote IGH use. In fact, as much as I like Pudge's Rohloff > Bombadil, the chain tensioner isn't the only "hack" required to make it > work. Since the frame lacks a provision for OEM Rohloff compatibility, a > long clamp-on torque arm is required, too. > > The vertical dropouts that Riv uses are sensible. Rivs are made for > dérailleur drivetrains. The vertical dropouts make for a precise > wheel-to-derailleur relationship that promotes consistent shifting. The > vert dropouts also prevent the wheel from slipping if the qr isn't tight > enough. And, of course, there's fender line to consider. If you're > designing a frame for derailleurs, vertical dropouts are the way to go. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Horizontal Drop outs??? was: Bombadil v. 2.0 and new Fatty Rumpkins
I have had great success with the Shimano Alfine tensioner... It visually looks like a derailleur (a potential detractor) and may seem like overkill, but it works extremely well, is relatively inexpensive, and it has a very strong spring. It's especially effective when running a rear internal-geared hub and a double or triple crank with front derailleur, providing a vastly expanded gear range to a 5, 7 or 8 speed IG hub. On Friday, March 22, 2013 2:24:45 PM UTC-4, Norman Bone wrote: > > The early Riv models (Long Low, Road Standard and All-Rounder) were > considered production. If you wanted to deviate from how they were > configured, Riv charged a 'Custom' fee. See the 'Custom frames' heading at > the bottom: > > http://www.cyclofiend.com/Images/rbw/gen1/rivcat05_framespecs.jpg > > I don't know what Grant's rationale for the horizontal drop outs was. > Wheelbase adjustability? Maybe he'll speak to it? > > -Norm riding a horizontal drop out Production AR in PDX > > -- > *From:* cyclotourist > > *To:* RBW Owners Bunch > > *Sent:* Thursday, March 21, 2013 10:11 PM > *Subject:* Re: [RBW] Horizontal Drop outs??? was: Bombadil v. 2.0 and new > Fatty Rumpkins > > I think horizontals are only on Rivendell customs, and then only when > asked for. I don't believe any of their production bikes have ever had > horizontal or semi-horizontal. > > > On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 9:32 PM, Aaron Young <1ce...@gmail.com > > wrote: > > As was suggested by William I'm starting a new thread with the question > Jonathan posted below. I hope Jonathan won't mind. I'm interested in this > question as well because, well... I'd simply like to know more about this > topic. Anyone have anything to add? > > Aaron Young > Vancouver, WA > > On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 8:05 AM, Jonathan Poor > > wrote: > > This leads me to ask a question I've had for a while: > > What ever happened to the early Riv devotion to horizontal dropouts? I > guess I'd prefer I nice long dropout to either of these mentioned options! > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com . > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com > . > Visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > > > > -- > Cheers, > David > Redlands, CA > > ** > "Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby > can't chew it." -*Mark Twain* > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com . > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com > . > Visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Horizontal Drop outs??? was: Bombadil v. 2.0 and new Fatty Rumpkins
The early Riv models (Long Low, Road Standard and All-Rounder) were considered production. If you wanted to deviate from how they were configured, Riv charged a 'Custom' fee. See the 'Custom frames' heading at the bottom: http://www.cyclofiend.com/Images/rbw/gen1/rivcat05_framespecs.jpg I don't know what Grant's rationale for the horizontal drop outs was. Wheelbase adjustability? Maybe he'll speak to it? -Norm riding a horizontal drop out Production AR in PDX From: cyclotourist To: RBW Owners Bunch Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 10:11 PM Subject: Re: [RBW] Horizontal Drop outs??? was: Bombadil v. 2.0 and new Fatty Rumpkins I think horizontals are only on Rivendell customs, and then only when asked for. I don't believe any of their production bikes have ever had horizontal or semi-horizontal. On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 9:32 PM, Aaron Young <1ce...@gmail.com> wrote: As was suggested by William I'm starting a new thread with the question Jonathan posted below. I hope Jonathan won't mind. I'm interested in this question as well because, well... I'd simply like to know more about this topic. Anyone have anything to add? > > >Aaron Young >Vancouver, WA > > >On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 8:05 AM, Jonathan Poor wrote: > >This leads me to ask a question I've had for a while: >> >> >>What ever happened to the early Riv devotion to horizontal dropouts? I guess >>I'd prefer I nice long dropout to either of these mentioned options! >> >> > -- >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW >Owners Bunch" group. >To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. >Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. >For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- Cheers, David Redlands, CA ** "Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't chew it." -Mark Twain -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Horizontal Drop outs??? was: Bombadil v. 2.0 and new Fatty Rumpkins
Aside from fixed-gear conversions (not ideal with Riv's low BBs), I don't see many advantages to a traditional horizontal dropout. With freewheeling singles or IGHs, a chain tensioner is a good solution. A lot of people have a reflexive distrust of chain tensioners, but a quality tensioner (especially the Rohloff) is a wonderful thing. Of course, a tensioner detracts from the clean chainline that is apparently the defining hallmark of a good single-cog bike. But Riv is not really a single-speed brand, nor has Riv ever made any effort to promote IGH use. In fact, as much as I like Pudge's Rohloff Bombadil, the chain tensioner isn't the only "hack" required to make it work. Since the frame lacks a provision for OEM Rohloff compatibility, a long clamp-on torque arm is required, too. The vertical dropouts that Riv uses are sensible. Rivs are made for dérailleur drivetrains. The vertical dropouts make for a precise wheel-to-derailleur relationship that promotes consistent shifting. The vert dropouts also prevent the wheel from slipping if the qr isn't tight enough. And, of course, there's fender line to consider. If you're designing a frame for derailleurs, vertical dropouts are the way to go. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Horizontal Drop outs??? was: Bombadil v. 2.0 and new Fatty Rumpkins
Horizontal dropouts were standard on the Reynolds 753 models (road standard and perhaps the all rounder) my guess is that was what waterford was using at the time. Jason On Mar 21, 2013, at 10:11 PM, cyclotourist wrote: > I think horizontals are only on Rivendell customs, and then only when asked > for. I don't believe any of their production bikes have ever had horizontal > or semi-horizontal. > > > On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 9:32 PM, Aaron Young <1ce...@gmail.com> wrote: >> As was suggested by William I'm starting a new thread with the question >> Jonathan posted below. I hope Jonathan won't mind. I'm interested in this >> question as well because, well... I'd simply like to know more about this >> topic. Anyone have anything to add? >> >> Aaron Young >> Vancouver, WA >> >> On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 8:05 AM, Jonathan Poor wrote: >>> This leads me to ask a question I've had for a while: >>> >>> What ever happened to the early Riv devotion to horizontal dropouts? I >>> guess I'd prefer I nice long dropout to either of these mentioned options! >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > -- > Cheers, > David > Redlands, CA > > ** > "Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't > chew it." -Mark Twain > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Horizontal Drop outs??? was: Bombadil v. 2.0 and new Fatty Rumpkins
I prefer verticals for derailer bicycles. Easier to pop the wheel back in, and a better fender-line. On horizontal bikes the fender has to be spaced further forward of the rear tire to make room to slide the wheel out. Joe Bernard Vallejo, CA. On Thursday, March 21, 2013 10:11:55 PM UTC-7, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote: > Quickbeams and Simple Ones being the exception of course. > > > On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 10:11 PM, cyclotourist > > > wrote: > >> I think horizontals are only on Rivendell customs, and then only when >> asked for. I don't believe any of their production bikes have ever had >> horizontal or semi-horizontal. >> >> >> On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 9:32 PM, Aaron Young <1ce...@gmail.com >> > wrote: >> >>> As was suggested by William I'm starting a new thread with the question >>> Jonathan posted below. I hope Jonathan won't mind. I'm interested in this >>> question as well because, well... I'd simply like to know more about this >>> topic. Anyone have anything to add? >>> >>> Aaron Young >>> Vancouver, WA >>> >>> On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 8:05 AM, Jonathan Poor >>> >>> > wrote: >>> This leads me to ask a question I've had for a while: What ever happened to the early Riv devotion to horizontal dropouts? I guess I'd prefer I nice long dropout to either of these mentioned options! >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com . >>> To post to this group, send email to >>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com >>> . >>> Visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Cheers, >> David >> Redlands, CA >> >> ** >> "Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby >> can't chew it." -*Mark Twain* >> > > > > -- > Cheers, > David > Redlands, CA > > ** > "Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby > can't chew it." -*Mark Twain* > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Horizontal Drop outs??? was: Bombadil v. 2.0 and new Fatty Rumpkins
Quickbeams and Simple Ones being the exception of course. On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 10:11 PM, cyclotourist wrote: > I think horizontals are only on Rivendell customs, and then only when > asked for. I don't believe any of their production bikes have ever had > horizontal or semi-horizontal. > > > On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 9:32 PM, Aaron Young <1ce...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> As was suggested by William I'm starting a new thread with the question >> Jonathan posted below. I hope Jonathan won't mind. I'm interested in this >> question as well because, well... I'd simply like to know more about this >> topic. Anyone have anything to add? >> >> Aaron Young >> Vancouver, WA >> >> On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 8:05 AM, Jonathan Poor wrote: >> >>> This leads me to ask a question I've had for a while: >>> >>> What ever happened to the early Riv devotion to horizontal dropouts? I >>> guess I'd prefer I nice long dropout to either of these mentioned options! >>> >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> >> > > > > -- > Cheers, > David > Redlands, CA > > ** > "Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby > can't chew it." -*Mark Twain* > -- Cheers, David Redlands, CA ** "Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't chew it." -*Mark Twain* -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Horizontal Drop outs??? was: Bombadil v. 2.0 and new Fatty Rumpkins
I think horizontals are only on Rivendell customs, and then only when asked for. I don't believe any of their production bikes have ever had horizontal or semi-horizontal. On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 9:32 PM, Aaron Young <1ce...@gmail.com> wrote: > As was suggested by William I'm starting a new thread with the question > Jonathan posted below. I hope Jonathan won't mind. I'm interested in this > question as well because, well... I'd simply like to know more about this > topic. Anyone have anything to add? > > Aaron Young > Vancouver, WA > > On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 8:05 AM, Jonathan Poor wrote: > >> This leads me to ask a question I've had for a while: >> >> What ever happened to the early Riv devotion to horizontal dropouts? I >> guess I'd prefer I nice long dropout to either of these mentioned options! >> >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- Cheers, David Redlands, CA ** "Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't chew it." -*Mark Twain* -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[RBW] Horizontal Drop outs??? was: Bombadil v. 2.0 and new Fatty Rumpkins
As was suggested by William I'm starting a new thread with the question Jonathan posted below. I hope Jonathan won't mind. I'm interested in this question as well because, well... I'd simply like to know more about this topic. Anyone have anything to add? Aaron Young Vancouver, WA On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 8:05 AM, Jonathan Poor wrote: > This leads me to ask a question I've had for a while: > > What ever happened to the early Riv devotion to horizontal dropouts? I > guess I'd prefer I nice long dropout to either of these mentioned options! > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
