[RBW] Re: 650b Rambouillet was: Feeling Abondoned
I recall from the iBoB archives that there was an apparent difference based on years. If I Recall the first, maybe couple, of rounds did not fit the wider tires as easily. Sorry, but I am too lazy to look it up at the moment, but I do recall a thread about this over there. Rob On Jan 13, 6:01 pm, EricP ericpl...@aol.com wrote: Interesting. As I just inflate the Schwalbe Marathon Supreme 700x40 to whatever the mood is. Usually about 45 front and 60 rear. And after about 2,400 miles on them last year, do perfer them to the CdlV in 650B. Those were good tires, but I didn't find them in the same quality league as the Schwable. At least for my riding preferences. Again, that's probably just my preference and my weight. If I were to lose a lot more weight, things might be different. No matter, right now, 40 is about the narrowest tire in the lineup. Although maybe my 700C studded on the Hillborne are not so wide. But that bike hasn't been out yet this year. Weather too crummy. The differences in folks getting tires to fit in the Ram make me wonder if there are either rim issues involved or - and this is highly unlikely - one batch might be slightly narrower in the stays? Eric Platt (who has cabin fever and the Atlantis on the road to nowhere trainer isn't helping) On Jan 13, 11:05 am, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: On Wed, 2010-01-13 at 08:52 -0800, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery wrote: I remember the article that Mike mentioned. I think the point was that Riv bikes already have good clearances, so why bother (not to mention BB height issues...) In the early days of RBW's promotion of 650B, a lot of people were converting 27/700 bikes for no clear reason, since many of the conversions already had ample tire-space (many 1970s bikes had loads of room). Of course, if you have an early 80s Italian racing bike or something else with minimal clearance, then there are clear benefits to the conversion. We did many of these, which were well received by their owners, and made the bikes much more useful and interesting. On Jan 13, 10:17 am, Mike mjawn...@gmail.com wrote: Jim makes a really good point here. The Rambouillet works fine with fenders and 32s so why bother with 650b. If you don't use fenders you can fit a tire up to 37mm. There was an article or note in one of the RR, I can't remember which one, where Grant mentioned that their bikes weren't good for 650b conversion. On the other hand, if you can fit it, there is a WORLD of difference between a 650Bx40 Hetre and any 32mm tire. There's even a world of difference between a 38mm CdlV and any 32mm tire. I have all these sizes, and I speak from experience. Also, I've used 35 and 38mm 700C tires in the past (although not the current gen. Pasela 37mm, which by all accounts is the best wide 700C). In my opinion, based on my experiences, there is simply no comparison between the plush, velvety ride of the wide 650Bs and the harsh, unpleasant, heavy-feeling ride of the wide 700Cs I've tried. And the best of the wide 700C lot, the now-defunct Bruce Gordon Rock 'n Road knobby, had other issues: very fast wear, and a wicked rebound. Hit a good sized bump with it, and it was like slamming a basketball on the ground: BOING! Hang on to the handlebar, lest you lose it. In my experience, the wide 700Cs just aren't the same as the wide 650Bs. They're generally much higher pressure (in some cases, labeled inflate to 90 or 100 psi) than the corresponding width 650Bs, which often are labeled 50psi max pressure, with much stiffer sidewalls and beefier construction all around. Supple, they're not.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: 650b Rambouillet was: Feeling Abondoned
I think it depends a lot on the fender. Also, switching to a brake with a wider mouth (tektro 556) helps a lot. But bigger than 28 definitely requires close tolerances with fenders. For this reason, I am considering selling my wife's barely ridden Rambouillet (54 blue) and replacing with a 52 Hillborne with fatter tires. It may turn out to be one of those permission vs forgiveness things... I doubt I'd get permission if I asked, but I'm sure she'd forgive me after the first multi-terrain ride. On Jan 14, 7:11 am, rperks perks@gmail.com wrote: I recall from the iBoB archives that there was an apparent difference based on years. If I Recall the first, maybe couple, of rounds did not fit the wider tires as easily. Sorry, but I am too lazy to look it up at the moment, but I do recall a thread about this over there. Rob On Jan 13, 6:01 pm, EricP ericpl...@aol.com wrote: Interesting. As I just inflate the Schwalbe Marathon Supreme 700x40 to whatever the mood is. Usually about 45 front and 60 rear. And after about 2,400 miles on them last year, do perfer them to the CdlV in 650B. Those were good tires, but I didn't find them in the same quality league as the Schwable. At least for my riding preferences. Again, that's probably just my preference and my weight. If I were to lose a lot more weight, things might be different. No matter, right now, 40 is about the narrowest tire in the lineup. Although maybe my 700C studded on the Hillborne are not so wide. But that bike hasn't been out yet this year. Weather too crummy. The differences in folks getting tires to fit in the Ram make me wonder if there are either rim issues involved or - and this is highly unlikely - one batch might be slightly narrower in the stays? Eric Platt (who has cabin fever and the Atlantis on the road to nowhere trainer isn't helping) On Jan 13, 11:05 am, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: On Wed, 2010-01-13 at 08:52 -0800, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery wrote: I remember the article that Mike mentioned. I think the point was that Riv bikes already have good clearances, so why bother (not to mention BB height issues...) In the early days of RBW's promotion of 650B, a lot of people were converting 27/700 bikes for no clear reason, since many of the conversions already had ample tire-space (many 1970s bikes had loads of room). Of course, if you have an early 80s Italian racing bike or something else with minimal clearance, then there are clear benefits to the conversion. We did many of these, which were well received by their owners, and made the bikes much more useful and interesting. On Jan 13, 10:17 am, Mike mjawn...@gmail.com wrote: Jim makes a really good point here. The Rambouillet works fine with fenders and 32s so why bother with 650b. If you don't use fenders you can fit a tire up to 37mm. There was an article or note in one of the RR, I can't remember which one, where Grant mentioned that their bikes weren't good for 650b conversion. On the other hand, if you can fit it, there is a WORLD of difference between a 650Bx40 Hetre and any 32mm tire. There's even a world of difference between a 38mm CdlV and any 32mm tire. I have all these sizes, and I speak from experience. Also, I've used 35 and 38mm 700C tires in the past (although not the current gen. Pasela 37mm, which by all accounts is the best wide 700C). In my opinion, based on my experiences, there is simply no comparison between the plush, velvety ride of the wide 650Bs and the harsh, unpleasant, heavy-feeling ride of the wide 700Cs I've tried. And the best of the wide 700C lot, the now-defunct Bruce Gordon Rock 'n Road knobby, had other issues: very fast wear, and a wicked rebound. Hit a good sized bump with it, and it was like slamming a basketball on the ground: BOING! Hang on to the handlebar, lest you lose it. In my experience, the wide 700Cs just aren't the same as the wide 650Bs. They're generally much higher pressure (in some cases, labeled inflate to 90 or 100 psi) than the corresponding width 650Bs, which often are labeled 50psi max pressure, with much stiffer sidewalls and beefier construction all around. Supple, they're not.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: 650b Rambouillet was: Feeling Abondoned
On Wed, 2010-01-13 at 20:41 -0800, Esteban wrote: All this being said, I just did my first long-ish ride on the Hetres now on my 650B Custom Protovelo (kinda like a Saluki). Wow. Those are some fast, smooth tires. Its like they're not even there like you're floating along -- and fast! I really do wish Rivendell offered 650B in the larger sizes, up to 62cm. I don't know whay I like 650B so much - it doesn't make much sense. I don't know -- looking at the excerpt from a previous paragraph I quoted above, it seems like it makes perfect sense to me. What part of like you're floating along -- and fast doesn't make much sense? True, there's nothing in 700c that can equal the Hetre, and the same will probably be the case for the new 650B tires. One can always go Riv custom for that Grant magic! I heard a rumor that there is a 650B Pasela in the pipe... First time I've heard that rumor. Source? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: 650b Rambouillet was: Feeling Abondoned
I agree on the 650b sentiment. Of the reasons for 650b-specific frames in large sizes (~62cm), the one that sticks out in my mind is offroad riding.Rivendell made a good point about this when they created the bombadil, but I think any frame that might see offroad riding could benefit from 650b geometry. Less toe-overlap, more agility, yet big enough to smooth out the bumps and what not. On Jan 13, 11:41 pm, Esteban proto...@gmail.com wrote: MichaelH wrote, the Ram. is designed to be optimized with 28 mm tires. I didn't see any point in trying to make that frame into something it wasn't intended to be. I agree with that. When I think of my Romulus, I know it was designed around the Shimano medium reach brakes and for 28mm tires with fenders or up to 37mm without. That determined the design details of the whole bike. As it is, that's pretty darn versatile! It is a road bike, afterall. I run mine with 28s and fenders, and I've been riding 35mm Paselas, and those are a dream - I would say almost equal to a CdlV. One can always get another bike built around 650B - and the producers mentioned earlier are not the only ones - seems like younger Rando riders and custom builders are really going after the classic 650B rando bike. All this being said, I just did my first long-ish ride on the Hetres now on my 650B Custom Protovelo (kinda like a Saluki). Wow. Those are some fast, smooth tires. Its like they're not even there like you're floating along -- and fast! And with the 38mm Grand Bois and the Pari-Motos coming down the pipe, they should offer some very nice 650B performance options for distance events and general distance/ camping riding. I really do wish Rivendell offered 650B in the larger sizes, up to 62cm. I don't know whay I like 650B so much - it doesn't make much sense. True, there's nothing in 700c that can equal the Hetre, and the same will probably be the case for the new 650B tires. One can always go Riv custom for that Grant magic! I heard a rumor that there is a 650B Pasela in the pipe... Esteban San Diego, Calif. On Jan 13, 6:01 pm, EricP ericpl...@aol.com wrote: Interesting. As I just inflate the Schwalbe Marathon Supreme 700x40 to whatever the mood is. Usually about 45 front and 60 rear. And after about 2,400 miles on them last year, do perfer them to the CdlV in 650B. Those were good tires, but I didn't find them in the same quality league as the Schwable. At least for my riding preferences. Again, that's probably just my preference and my weight. If I were to lose a lot more weight, things might be different. No matter, right now, 40 is about the narrowest tire in the lineup. Although maybe my 700C studded on the Hillborne are not so wide. But that bike hasn't been out yet this year. Weather too crummy. The differences in folks getting tires to fit in the Ram make me wonder if there are either rim issues involved or - and this is highly unlikely - one batch might be slightly narrower in the stays? Eric Platt (who has cabin fever and the Atlantis on the road to nowhere trainer isn't helping) On Jan 13, 11:05 am, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: On Wed, 2010-01-13 at 08:52 -0800, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery wrote: I remember the article that Mike mentioned. I think the point was that Riv bikes already have good clearances, so why bother (not to mention BB height issues...) In the early days of RBW's promotion of 650B, a lot of people were converting 27/700 bikes for no clear reason, since many of the conversions already had ample tire-space (many 1970s bikes had loads of room). Of course, if you have an early 80s Italian racing bike or something else with minimal clearance, then there are clear benefits to the conversion. We did many of these, which were well received by their owners, and made the bikes much more useful and interesting. On Jan 13, 10:17 am, Mike mjawn...@gmail.com wrote: Jim makes a really good point here. The Rambouillet works fine with fenders and 32s so why bother with 650b. If you don't use fenders you can fit a tire up to 37mm. There was an article or note in one of the RR, I can't remember which one, where Grant mentioned that their bikes weren't good for 650b conversion. On the other hand, if you can fit it, there is a WORLD of difference between a 650Bx40 Hetre and any 32mm tire. There's even a world of difference between a 38mm CdlV and any 32mm tire. I have all these sizes, and I speak from experience. Also, I've used 35 and 38mm 700C tires in the past (although not the current gen. Pasela 37mm, which by all accounts is the best wide 700C). In my opinion, based on my experiences, there is simply no comparison between the plush, velvety ride of the wide 650Bs and the harsh, unpleasant, heavy-feeling ride of the wide 700Cs I've tried. And the best of
Re: [RBW] Re: 650b Rambouillet was: Feeling Abondoned
Well this is the testimonial that likely is going to break the camel's back for moi. I've got a 62 cm Saluki and have been flirting with the idea of trying the Hertes. Now you've gone and done it. Unfortunately I think I'll have to take off the Honjo hammered 45 fenders to make those fat boys fit. ;) -Jimd - Original Message - From: Esteban proto...@gmail.com To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 8:41:44 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [RBW] Re: 650b Rambouillet was: Feeling Abondoned MichaelH wrote, the Ram. is designed to be optimized with 28 mm tires. I didn't see any point in trying to make that frame into something it wasn't intended to be. I agree with that. When I think of my Romulus, I know it was designed around the Shimano medium reach brakes and for 28mm tires with fenders or up to 37mm without. That determined the design details of the whole bike. As it is, that's pretty darn versatile! It is a road bike, afterall. I run mine with 28s and fenders, and I've been riding 35mm Paselas, and those are a dream - I would say almost equal to a CdlV. One can always get another bike built around 650B - and the producers mentioned earlier are not the only ones - seems like younger Rando riders and custom builders are really going after the classic 650B rando bike. All this being said, I just did my first long-ish ride on the Hetres now on my 650B Custom Protovelo (kinda like a Saluki). Wow. Those are some fast, smooth tires. Its like they're not even there like you're floating along -- and fast! And with the 38mm Grand Bois and the Pari-Motos coming down the pipe, they should offer some very nice 650B performance options for distance events and general distance/ camping riding. I really do wish Rivendell offered 650B in the larger sizes, up to 62cm. I don't know whay I like 650B so much - it doesn't make much sense. True, there's nothing in 700c that can equal the Hetre, and the same will probably be the case for the new 650B tires. One can always go Riv custom for that Grant magic! I heard a rumor that there is a 650B Pasela in the pipe... Esteban San Diego, Calif. On Jan 13, 6:01 pm, EricP wrote: Interesting. As I just inflate the Schwalbe Marathon Supreme 700x40 to whatever the mood is. Usually about 45 front and 60 rear. And after about 2,400 miles on them last year, do perfer them to the CdlV in 650B. Those were good tires, but I didn't find them in the same quality league as the Schwable. At least for my riding preferences. Again, that's probably just my preference and my weight. If I were to lose a lot more weight, things might be different. No matter, right now, 40 is about the narrowest tire in the lineup. Although maybe my 700C studded on the Hillborne are not so wide. But that bike hasn't been out yet this year. Weather too crummy. The differences in folks getting tires to fit in the Ram make me wonder if there are either rim issues involved or - and this is highly unlikely - one batch might be slightly narrower in the stays? Eric Platt (who has cabin fever and the Atlantis on the road to nowhere trainer isn't helping) On Jan 13, 11:05 am, Steve Palincsar wrote:On Wed, 2010-01-13 at 08:52 -0800, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery wrote: I remember the article that Mike mentioned. I think the point was thatRiv bikes already have good clearances, so why bother (not to mentionBB height issues...) In the early days of RBW's promotion of 650B, alot of people were converting 27/700 bikes for no clear reason, sincemany of the conversions already had ample tire-space (many 1970s bikeshad loads of room). Of course, if you have an early 80s Italian racingbike or something else with minimal clearance, then there are clearbenefits to the conversion. We did many of these, which were wellreceived by their owners, and made the bikes much more useful andinteresting. On Jan 13, 10:17 am, Mike wrote: Jim makes a really good point here. The Rambouillet works fine with fenders and 32s so why bother with 650b. If you don't use fenders you can fit a tire up to 37mm. There was an article or note in one of the RR, I can't remember which one, where Grant mentioned that their bikes weren't good for 650b conversion. On the other hand, if you can fit it, there is a WORLD of difference between a 650Bx40 Hetre and any 32mm tire. There's even a world of difference between a 38mm CdlV and any 32mm tire. I have all these sizes, and I speak from experience.Also, I've used 35 and 38mm 700C tires in the past (although not the current gen. Pasela 37mm, which by all accounts is the best wide 700C). In my opinion, based on my experiences, there is simply no comparison between the plush, velvety ride of the wide 650Bs and the harsh, unpleasant, heavy-feeling ride of the wide 700Cs I've
[RBW] Re: 650b Rambouillet was: Feeling Abondoned
Why only sizes 58, 60, 62? Why not 54 or 55 (i.e. my size)? Or for that matter, as long as we're talking hypotheticals, why not a Taiwanese-made, more affordable Legolas, even in 700c? +1 on horizontal top tubes, by the way. Aaron On Jan 14, 11:33 am, Esteban kemm...@gmail.com wrote: Jimd - you will, most likely. The Honjos curve in pretty close. I used 50mm Berthoud with a little crude surgery at the chainstays -- I'll do a new post when I get some photos. I know there are lots of pipe dreams out there - remember how long people talked about wanting Riv to make another road bike? Well, we got one, an exceptional one, with the Roadeo. So, here goes: Wouldn't it be great if Riv offered a small batch (alá Legolas) of lightweight (Roadeo tubing?) 650b event (fast, steeper angles) bikes in sizes 58, 60, 62? Horizontal top tube, 42mm with fenders, etc... a lighter, more race-y Saluki? I've already got my Protovelo, so not much use to me... but wouldn't that be cool for some folks? This is why I don't have my own bicycle business. Again, a custom Riv would do the trick just fine... would be pretty boss, actually. Someone should order one so we can see how it looks. Esteban San Diego, Calif. On Jan 14, 11:22 am, rasterd...@comcast.net wrote: Well this is the testimonial that likely is going to break the camel's back for moi. I've got a 62 cm Saluki and have been flirting with the idea of trying the Hertes. Now you've gone and done it. Unfortunately I think I'll have to take off the Honjo hammered 45 fenders to make those fat boys fit. ;) -Jimd - Original Message - From: Esteban proto...@gmail.com To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 8:41:44 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [RBW] Re: 650b Rambouillet was: Feeling Abondoned MichaelH wrote, the Ram. is designed to be optimized with 28 mm tires. I didn't see any point in trying to make that frame into something it wasn't intended to be. I agree with that. When I think of my Romulus, I know it was designed around the Shimano medium reach brakes and for 28mm tires with fenders or up to 37mm without. That determined the design details of the whole bike. As it is, that's pretty darn versatile! It is a road bike, afterall. I run mine with 28s and fenders, and I've been riding 35mm Paselas, and those are a dream - I would say almost equal to a CdlV. One can always get another bike built around 650B - and the producers mentioned earlier are not the only ones - seems like younger Rando riders and custom builders are really going after the classic 650B rando bike. All this being said, I just did my first long-ish ride on the Hetres now on my 650B Custom Protovelo (kinda like a Saluki). Wow. Those are some fast, smooth tires. Its like they're not even there like you're floating along -- and fast! And with the 38mm Grand Bois and the Pari-Motos coming down the pipe, they should offer some very nice 650B performance options for distance events and general distance/ camping riding. I really do wish Rivendell offered 650B in the larger sizes, up to 62cm. I don't know whay I like 650B so much - it doesn't make much sense. True, there's nothing in 700c that can equal the Hetre, and the same will probably be the case for the new 650B tires. One can always go Riv custom for that Grant magic! I heard a rumor that there is a 650B Pasela in the pipe... Esteban San Diego, Calif. On Jan 13, 6:01 pm, EricP wrote: Interesting. As I just inflate the Schwalbe Marathon Supreme 700x40 to whatever the mood is. Usually about 45 front and 60 rear. And after about 2,400 miles on them last year, do perfer them to the CdlV in 650B. Those were good tires, but I didn't find them in the same quality league as the Schwable. At least for my riding preferences. Again, that's probably just my preference and my weight. If I were to lose a lot more weight, things might be different. No matter, right now, 40 is about the narrowest tire in the lineup. Although maybe my 700C studded on the Hillborne are not so wide. But that bike hasn't been out yet this year. Weather too crummy. The differences in folks getting tires to fit in the Ram make me wonder if there are either rim issues involved or - and this is highly unlikely - one batch might be slightly narrower in the stays? Eric Platt (who has cabin fever and the Atlantis on the road to nowhere trainer isn't helping) On Jan 13, 11:05 am, Steve Palincsar wrote:On Wed, 2010-01-13 at 08:52 -0800, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery wrote: I remember the article that Mike mentioned. I think the point was thatRiv bikes already have good clearances, so why bother (not to mentionBB height issues...) In the early days of RBW's promotion of 650B, alot of people were converting
[RBW] Re: 650b Rambouillet was: Feeling Abondoned
I wanted to spite you, Aaron :) I was just thinking that 650B was available in the smaller middle- sized Hilsens. But now that you mention it, and we are talking pipe dreams here, why not all sizes!? Upon riding the 35mm Paselas the last couple of months, I was convinced that the 650B ride could be closely replicated on that tire or the 37mm (which I haven't ridden). But upon riding the Grand Bois, and looking forward to the new offerings, I think 650b is still special and different enough. Esteban San Diego, Calif. On Jan 14, 1:02 pm, Aaron Thomas aaron.a.tho...@gmail.com wrote: Why only sizes 58, 60, 62? Why not 54 or 55 (i.e. my size)? Or for that matter, as long as we're talking hypotheticals, why not a Taiwanese-made, more affordable Legolas, even in 700c? +1 on horizontal top tubes, by the way. Aaron On Jan 14, 11:33 am, Esteban kemm...@gmail.com wrote: Jimd - you will, most likely. The Honjos curve in pretty close. I used 50mm Berthoud with a little crude surgery at the chainstays -- I'll do a new post when I get some photos. I know there are lots of pipe dreams out there - remember how long people talked about wanting Riv to make another road bike? Well, we got one, an exceptional one, with the Roadeo. So, here goes: Wouldn't it be great if Riv offered a small batch (alá Legolas) of lightweight (Roadeo tubing?) 650b event (fast, steeper angles) bikes in sizes 58, 60, 62? Horizontal top tube, 42mm with fenders, etc... a lighter, more race-y Saluki? I've already got my Protovelo, so not much use to me... but wouldn't that be cool for some folks? This is why I don't have my own bicycle business. Again, a custom Riv would do the trick just fine... would be pretty boss, actually. Someone should order one so we can see how it looks. Esteban San Diego, Calif. On Jan 14, 11:22 am, rasterd...@comcast.net wrote: Well this is the testimonial that likely is going to break the camel's back for moi. I've got a 62 cm Saluki and have been flirting with the idea of trying the Hertes. Now you've gone and done it. Unfortunately I think I'll have to take off the Honjo hammered 45 fenders to make those fat boys fit. ;) -Jimd - Original Message - From: Esteban proto...@gmail.com To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 8:41:44 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [RBW] Re: 650b Rambouillet was: Feeling Abondoned MichaelH wrote, the Ram. is designed to be optimized with 28 mm tires. I didn't see any point in trying to make that frame into something it wasn't intended to be. I agree with that. When I think of my Romulus, I know it was designed around the Shimano medium reach brakes and for 28mm tires with fenders or up to 37mm without. That determined the design details of the whole bike. As it is, that's pretty darn versatile! It is a road bike, afterall. I run mine with 28s and fenders, and I've been riding 35mm Paselas, and those are a dream - I would say almost equal to a CdlV. One can always get another bike built around 650B - and the producers mentioned earlier are not the only ones - seems like younger Rando riders and custom builders are really going after the classic 650B rando bike. All this being said, I just did my first long-ish ride on the Hetres now on my 650B Custom Protovelo (kinda like a Saluki). Wow. Those are some fast, smooth tires. Its like they're not even there like you're floating along -- and fast! And with the 38mm Grand Bois and the Pari-Motos coming down the pipe, they should offer some very nice 650B performance options for distance events and general distance/ camping riding. I really do wish Rivendell offered 650B in the larger sizes, up to 62cm. I don't know whay I like 650B so much - it doesn't make much sense. True, there's nothing in 700c that can equal the Hetre, and the same will probably be the case for the new 650B tires. One can always go Riv custom for that Grant magic! I heard a rumor that there is a 650B Pasela in the pipe... Esteban San Diego, Calif. On Jan 13, 6:01 pm, EricP wrote: Interesting. As I just inflate the Schwalbe Marathon Supreme 700x40 to whatever the mood is. Usually about 45 front and 60 rear. And after about 2,400 miles on them last year, do perfer them to the CdlV in 650B. Those were good tires, but I didn't find them in the same quality league as the Schwable. At least for my riding preferences. Again, that's probably just my preference and my weight. If I were to lose a lot more weight, things might be different. No matter, right now, 40 is about the narrowest tire in the lineup. Although maybe my 700C studded on the Hillborne are not so wide. But that bike hasn't been out yet this year. Weather too crummy. The differences in folks
[RBW] Re: 650b Rambouillet was: Feeling Abondoned
The last issue of Bicycle Quarterly reviewed a bike (name??) that has, if I remember correctly, a bottom bracket height of only 235mm. Jan Heine reported that he had no real problem with pedal strike, but could hit the rings taking it over curbs. I doubt if a Ram or Rom would be that low. I'm still looking forward to taking possesion of my new, custom Bilenky tandem this spring, but not too far down the road I want to convert my 25 1984 Trek 620 to 650B, with couplers. My Rambouillet still remains my favorite ride, but it's great to be able to have a variety of rides to choose from. Michael H 1983 SpecializedSequoia (My Wife's ride) 1984 Trek 620 1988 Custom Marinoni Stage Racing Bike 2000 Soma Dbl Cross 2004 Rambouillet 2007 Ebisu All Purpose 2010 Bilenkey Touring, Travel Tandem On Jan 13, 8:22 am, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: On Wed, 2010-01-13 at 07:39 -0500, Larry Powers wrote: If I recall correctly the Rambo is not a could candidate for a 650b conversion becuase it has low bottom bracket to start with. Someone let me know if this is not true. The Rambouillet does indeed have a low bottom bracket -- and it was designed for 28mm tires. No matter which 650B you put in there, even the Hetre, there'd be additional drop; and I'm not at all certain there's clearance for a Hetre. On the other hand, it's not just bottom bracket drop, it's the combination of bottom bracket drop + crank length that causes the pedal strike problem. If you used shorter cranks, you could compensate to some extent. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
RE: [RBW] Re: 650b Rambouillet was: Feeling Abondoned
Congrats on the tandem. I had a custom Bilenky tandem built two summers ago. Very nice bike and they wer great to work with. Larry Powers Get a bicycle. You will not regret it if you live. - Mark Twain Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 07:18:56 -0800 Subject: [RBW] Re: 650b Rambouillet was: Feeling Abondoned From: mhech...@gmail.com To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com The last issue of Bicycle Quarterly reviewed a bike (name??) that has, if I remember correctly, a bottom bracket height of only 235mm. Jan Heine reported that he had no real problem with pedal strike, but could hit the rings taking it over curbs. I doubt if a Ram or Rom would be that low. I'm still looking forward to taking possesion of my new, custom Bilenky tandem this spring, but not too far down the road I want to convert my 25 1984 Trek 620 to 650B, with couplers. My Rambouillet still remains my favorite ride, but it's great to be able to have a variety of rides to choose from. Michael H 1983 SpecializedSequoia (My Wife's ride) 1984 Trek 620 1988 Custom Marinoni Stage Racing Bike 2000 Soma Dbl Cross 2004 Rambouillet 2007 Ebisu All Purpose 2010 Bilenkey Touring, Travel Tandem On Jan 13, 8:22 am, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: On Wed, 2010-01-13 at 07:39 -0500, Larry Powers wrote: If I recall correctly the Rambo is not a could candidate for a 650b conversion becuase it has low bottom bracket to start with. Someone let me know if this is not true. The Rambouillet does indeed have a low bottom bracket -- and it was designed for 28mm tires. No matter which 650B you put in there, even the Hetre, there'd be additional drop; and I'm not at all certain there's clearance for a Hetre. On the other hand, it's not just bottom bracket drop, it's the combination of bottom bracket drop + crank length that causes the pedal strike problem. If you used shorter cranks, you could compensate to some extent. _ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390710/direct/01/-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: 650b Rambouillet was: Feeling Abondoned
I've seen 650b Rambouillets: my question is why? You can already fender a 700x32ish, which is ample for most road riding. If running bigger tires is a priority, there are bikes designed to do that with a lot less hassle. On Jan 13, 6:39 am, Larry Powers lapower...@hotmail.com wrote: If I recall correctly the Rambo is not a could candidate for a 650b conversion becuase it has low bottom bracket to start with. Someone let me know if this is not true. Larry Powers Get a bicycle. You will not regret it if you live. - Mark Twain Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 20:29:41 -0800 Subject: [RBW] Re: Feeling Abondoned From: charles_v...@hotmail.com To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Couldn't you just convert to 650B wheels on the Ram and use longer reach brakes? You would get more clearance and a wide tire selection. Not sure on the bottom bracket height however. On Jan 12, 3:40 pm, Larry Powers lapower...@hotmail.com wrote: I took a nice tour on my Atlantis this past summer, I commute daily on my QB, my wife and I toured France on our Rambouillet and Bleriot (I also completed PBP on my Rambo) and my wife likes to tool around our neighborhood on her Glorius. We like Riv bikes and have bought our share. I know things change and can understand moving production to Taiwan because of the exchange rate. I guess the thing that pushed my buttons was to read that the Ruffy Tuffy/Rolly Polly tires will be discontinued. When I bought my Rambouillet it was touted as unique because it could use a large 28mm tire with fenders. Ruffy Tuffy tires have been my tire of choice for this bike and now Riv has abandoned both the bike and the tire. I believe that the Homer Hilson is the bike that Grant really intended to build when the developed the Rambouillet. But the parts available at the time placed limits on the design. The availability of longer and wider brakes finally allowed the Hilson to be built. I like the Hilson but having a Rambo and an Atlantis it is hard to justify the purchase of a bike in the middle. Change is inevitable and I hope that Riv continues to sell Lugged steel bike for a long time. I am very glad that I have my bikes because the new Riv's with limited sizes and sloping top tubes are not as close to my vision of what a bike should be. Hopefully they will maintain a few frames like the Hilson for those of us who appreciate a more classic shaped frame. If the economy improves maybe I will buy a Hilson or a Roadeo because I would really like to ride Brevets on a 32mm tire. I also hope that they do not completely forget those of us who supported them in the early years. I think I will pour a nice glass of wine, sit in the garage and admire my bikes. Larry Powers Get a bicycle. You will not regret it if you live. - Mark Twain _ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection.http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390706/direct/01/ _ Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390708/direct/01/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: 650b Rambouillet was: Feeling Abondoned
Jim makes a really good point here. The Rambouillet works fine with fenders and 32s so why bother with 650b. If you don't use fenders you can fit a tire up to 37mm. There was an article or note in one of the RR, I can't remember which one, where Grant mentioned that their bikes weren't good for 650b conversion. --mike On Jan 13, 7:42 am, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery thill@gmail.com wrote: I've seen 650b Rambouillets: my question is why? You can already fender a 700x32ish, which is ample for most road riding. If running bigger tires is a priority, there are bikes designed to do that with a lot less hassle. On Jan 13, 6:39 am, Larry Powers lapower...@hotmail.com wrote: If I recall correctly the Rambo is not a could candidate for a 650b conversion becuase it has low bottom bracket to start with. Someone let me know if this is not true. Larry Powers Get a bicycle. You will not regret it if you live. - Mark Twain Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 20:29:41 -0800 Subject: [RBW] Re: Feeling Abondoned From: charles_v...@hotmail.com To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Couldn't you just convert to 650B wheels on the Ram and use longer reach brakes? You would get more clearance and a wide tire selection. Not sure on the bottom bracket height however. On Jan 12, 3:40 pm, Larry Powers lapower...@hotmail.com wrote: I took a nice tour on my Atlantis this past summer, I commute daily on my QB, my wife and I toured France on our Rambouillet and Bleriot (I also completed PBP on my Rambo) and my wife likes to tool around our neighborhood on her Glorius. We like Riv bikes and have bought our share. I know things change and can understand moving production to Taiwan because of the exchange rate. I guess the thing that pushed my buttons was to read that the Ruffy Tuffy/Rolly Polly tires will be discontinued. When I bought my Rambouillet it was touted as unique because it could use a large 28mm tire with fenders. Ruffy Tuffy tires have been my tire of choice for this bike and now Riv has abandoned both the bike and the tire. I believe that the Homer Hilson is the bike that Grant really intended to build when the developed the Rambouillet. But the parts available at the time placed limits on the design. The availability of longer and wider brakes finally allowed the Hilson to be built. I like the Hilson but having a Rambo and an Atlantis it is hard to justify the purchase of a bike in the middle. Change is inevitable and I hope that Riv continues to sell Lugged steel bike for a long time. I am very glad that I have my bikes because the new Riv's with limited sizes and sloping top tubes are not as close to my vision of what a bike should be. Hopefully they will maintain a few frames like the Hilson for those of us who appreciate a more classic shaped frame. If the economy improves maybe I will buy a Hilson or a Roadeo because I would really like to ride Brevets on a 32mm tire. I also hope that they do not completely forget those of us who supported them in the early years. I think I will pour a nice glass of wine, sit in the garage and admire my bikes. Larry Powers Get a bicycle. You will not regret it if you live. - Mark Twain _ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection.http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390706/direct/01/ _ Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390708/direct/01/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: 650b Rambouillet was: Feeling Abondoned
I remember the article that Mike mentioned. I think the point was that Riv bikes already have good clearances, so why bother (not to mention BB height issues...) In the early days of RBW's promotion of 650B, a lot of people were converting 27/700 bikes for no clear reason, since many of the conversions already had ample tire-space (many 1970s bikes had loads of room). Of course, if you have an early 80s Italian racing bike or something else with minimal clearance, then there are clear benefits to the conversion. We did many of these, which were well received by their owners, and made the bikes much more useful and interesting. On Jan 13, 10:17 am, Mike mjawn...@gmail.com wrote: Jim makes a really good point here. The Rambouillet works fine with fenders and 32s so why bother with 650b. If you don't use fenders you can fit a tire up to 37mm. There was an article or note in one of the RR, I can't remember which one, where Grant mentioned that their bikes weren't good for 650b conversion. --mike On Jan 13, 7:42 am, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery thill@gmail.com wrote: I've seen 650b Rambouillets: my question is why? You can already fender a 700x32ish, which is ample for most road riding. If running bigger tires is a priority, there are bikes designed to do that with a lot less hassle. On Jan 13, 6:39 am, Larry Powers lapower...@hotmail.com wrote: If I recall correctly the Rambo is not a could candidate for a 650b conversion becuase it has low bottom bracket to start with. Someone let me know if this is not true. Larry Powers Get a bicycle. You will not regret it if you live. - Mark Twain Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 20:29:41 -0800 Subject: [RBW] Re: Feeling Abondoned From: charles_v...@hotmail.com To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Couldn't you just convert to 650B wheels on the Ram and use longer reach brakes? You would get more clearance and a wide tire selection. Not sure on the bottom bracket height however. On Jan 12, 3:40 pm, Larry Powers lapower...@hotmail.com wrote: I took a nice tour on my Atlantis this past summer, I commute daily on my QB, my wife and I toured France on our Rambouillet and Bleriot (I also completed PBP on my Rambo) and my wife likes to tool around our neighborhood on her Glorius. We like Riv bikes and have bought our share. I know things change and can understand moving production to Taiwan because of the exchange rate. I guess the thing that pushed my buttons was to read that the Ruffy Tuffy/Rolly Polly tires will be discontinued. When I bought my Rambouillet it was touted as unique because it could use a large 28mm tire with fenders. Ruffy Tuffy tires have been my tire of choice for this bike and now Riv has abandoned both the bike and the tire. I believe that the Homer Hilson is the bike that Grant really intended to build when the developed the Rambouillet. But the parts available at the time placed limits on the design. The availability of longer and wider brakes finally allowed the Hilson to be built. I like the Hilson but having a Rambo and an Atlantis it is hard to justify the purchase of a bike in the middle. Change is inevitable and I hope that Riv continues to sell Lugged steel bike for a long time. I am very glad that I have my bikes because the new Riv's with limited sizes and sloping top tubes are not as close to my vision of what a bike should be. Hopefully they will maintain a few frames like the Hilson for those of us who appreciate a more classic shaped frame. If the economy improves maybe I will buy a Hilson or a Roadeo because I would really like to ride Brevets on a 32mm tire. I also hope that they do not completely forget those of us who supported them in the early years. I think I will pour a nice glass of wine, sit in the garage and admire my bikes. Larry Powers Get a bicycle. You will not regret it if you live. - Mark Twain _ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection.http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390706/direct/01/ _ Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390708/direct/01/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: 650b Rambouillet was: Feeling Abondoned
The answer to why is toeclip overlap. My 54cm Rambouillet has a terrible problem with this and it really is a problem when I'm trying to negotiate traffic with a heavy load of groceries On Jan 13, 7:42 am, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery thill@gmail.com wrote: I've seen 650b Rambouillets: my question is why? You can already fender a 700x32ish, which is ample for most road riding. If running bigger tires is a priority, there are bikes designed to do that with a lot less hassle. On Jan 13, 6:39 am, Larry Powers lapower...@hotmail.com wrote: If I recall correctly the Rambo is not a could candidate for a 650b conversion becuase it has low bottom bracket to start with. Someone let me know if this is not true. Larry Powers Get a bicycle. You will not regret it if you live. - Mark Twain Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 20:29:41 -0800 Subject: [RBW] Re: Feeling Abondoned From: charles_v...@hotmail.com To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Couldn't you just convert to 650B wheels on the Ram and use longer reach brakes? You would get more clearance and a wide tire selection. Not sure on the bottom bracket height however. On Jan 12, 3:40 pm, Larry Powers lapower...@hotmail.com wrote: I took a nice tour on my Atlantis this past summer, I commute daily on my QB, my wife and I toured France on our Rambouillet and Bleriot (I also completed PBP on my Rambo) and my wife likes to tool around our neighborhood on her Glorius. We like Riv bikes and have bought our share. I know things change and can understand moving production to Taiwan because of the exchange rate. I guess the thing that pushed my buttons was to read that the Ruffy Tuffy/Rolly Polly tires will be discontinued. When I bought my Rambouillet it was touted as unique because it could use a large 28mm tire with fenders. Ruffy Tuffy tires have been my tire of choice for this bike and now Riv has abandoned both the bike and the tire. I believe that the Homer Hilson is the bike that Grant really intended to build when the developed the Rambouillet. But the parts available at the time placed limits on the design. The availability of longer and wider brakes finally allowed the Hilson to be built. I like the Hilson but having a Rambo and an Atlantis it is hard to justify the purchase of a bike in the middle. Change is inevitable and I hope that Riv continues to sell Lugged steel bike for a long time. I am very glad that I have my bikes because the new Riv's with limited sizes and sloping top tubes are not as close to my vision of what a bike should be. Hopefully they will maintain a few frames like the Hilson for those of us who appreciate a more classic shaped frame. If the economy improves maybe I will buy a Hilson or a Roadeo because I would really like to ride Brevets on a 32mm tire. I also hope that they do not completely forget those of us who supported them in the early years. I think I will pour a nice glass of wine, sit in the garage and admire my bikes. Larry Powers Get a bicycle. You will not regret it if you live. - Mark Twain _ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection.http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390706/direct/01/ _ Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390708/direct/01/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: 650b Rambouillet was: Feeling Abondoned
On Wed, 2010-01-13 at 08:52 -0800, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery wrote: I remember the article that Mike mentioned. I think the point was that Riv bikes already have good clearances, so why bother (not to mention BB height issues...) In the early days of RBW's promotion of 650B, a lot of people were converting 27/700 bikes for no clear reason, since many of the conversions already had ample tire-space (many 1970s bikes had loads of room). Of course, if you have an early 80s Italian racing bike or something else with minimal clearance, then there are clear benefits to the conversion. We did many of these, which were well received by their owners, and made the bikes much more useful and interesting. On Jan 13, 10:17 am, Mike mjawn...@gmail.com wrote: Jim makes a really good point here. The Rambouillet works fine with fenders and 32s so why bother with 650b. If you don't use fenders you can fit a tire up to 37mm. There was an article or note in one of the RR, I can't remember which one, where Grant mentioned that their bikes weren't good for 650b conversion. On the other hand, if you can fit it, there is a WORLD of difference between a 650Bx40 Hetre and any 32mm tire. There's even a world of difference between a 38mm CdlV and any 32mm tire. I have all these sizes, and I speak from experience. Also, I've used 35 and 38mm 700C tires in the past (although not the current gen. Pasela 37mm, which by all accounts is the best wide 700C). In my opinion, based on my experiences, there is simply no comparison between the plush, velvety ride of the wide 650Bs and the harsh, unpleasant, heavy-feeling ride of the wide 700Cs I've tried. And the best of the wide 700C lot, the now-defunct Bruce Gordon Rock 'n Road knobby, had other issues: very fast wear, and a wicked rebound. Hit a good sized bump with it, and it was like slamming a basketball on the ground: BOING! Hang on to the handlebar, lest you lose it. In my experience, the wide 700Cs just aren't the same as the wide 650Bs. They're generally much higher pressure (in some cases, labeled inflate to 90 or 100 psi) than the corresponding width 650Bs, which often are labeled 50psi max pressure, with much stiffer sidewalls and beefier construction all around. Supple, they're not. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: 650b Rambouillet was: Feeling Abondoned
You may be right Steve. My 650B-riding experience is limited to some Fatty Rumpkins, which were fine, but not magical. Interesting that no tire makers have shown interest in a wider 700C that rides like the fat 650Bs reportedly ride. You'd think that just once some tire company would say, ya know, we don't need to add the 1,000th 700x23 to the marketplace - let's try something new! I have to think that such a tire is forthcoming, with the proliferation of randonneuring, gravel riding, and bikes that can handle that size. On Jan 13, 11:05 am, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: On Wed, 2010-01-13 at 08:52 -0800, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery wrote: I remember the article that Mike mentioned. I think the point was that Riv bikes already have good clearances, so why bother (not to mention BB height issues...) In the early days of RBW's promotion of 650B, a lot of people were converting 27/700 bikes for no clear reason, since many of the conversions already had ample tire-space (many 1970s bikes had loads of room). Of course, if you have an early 80s Italian racing bike or something else with minimal clearance, then there are clear benefits to the conversion. We did many of these, which were well received by their owners, and made the bikes much more useful and interesting. On Jan 13, 10:17 am, Mike mjawn...@gmail.com wrote: Jim makes a really good point here. The Rambouillet works fine with fenders and 32s so why bother with 650b. If you don't use fenders you can fit a tire up to 37mm. There was an article or note in one of the RR, I can't remember which one, where Grant mentioned that their bikes weren't good for 650b conversion. On the other hand, if you can fit it, there is a WORLD of difference between a 650Bx40 Hetre and any 32mm tire. There's even a world of difference between a 38mm CdlV and any 32mm tire. I have all these sizes, and I speak from experience. Also, I've used 35 and 38mm 700C tires in the past (although not the current gen. Pasela 37mm, which by all accounts is the best wide 700C). In my opinion, based on my experiences, there is simply no comparison between the plush, velvety ride of the wide 650Bs and the harsh, unpleasant, heavy-feeling ride of the wide 700Cs I've tried. And the best of the wide 700C lot, the now-defunct Bruce Gordon Rock 'n Road knobby, had other issues: very fast wear, and a wicked rebound. Hit a good sized bump with it, and it was like slamming a basketball on the ground: BOING! Hang on to the handlebar, lest you lose it. In my experience, the wide 700Cs just aren't the same as the wide 650Bs. They're generally much higher pressure (in some cases, labeled inflate to 90 or 100 psi) than the corresponding width 650Bs, which often are labeled 50psi max pressure, with much stiffer sidewalls and beefier construction all around. Supple, they're not. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: 650b Rambouillet was: Feeling Abondoned
On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 12:22 PM, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery thill@gmail.com wrote: You may be right Steve. My 650B-riding experience is limited to some Fatty Rumpkins, which were fine, but not magical. Interesting that no tire makers have shown interest in a wider 700C that rides like the fat 650Bs reportedly ride. You'd think that just once some tire company would say, ya know, we don't need to add the 1,000th 700x23 to the marketplace - let's try something new! I have to think that such a tire is forthcoming, with the proliferation of randonneuring, gravel riding, and bikes that can handle that size. I'd like to think that, too. I've asked grand bois but they don't seem interested. Maybe I should try the 37mm paselas. I know the 35s are nice - so maybe the 37s are the bees knees. -sv -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: 650b Rambouillet was: Feeling Abondoned
On Wed, 2010-01-13 at 09:22 -0800, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery wrote: You may be right Steve. My 650B-riding experience is limited to some Fatty Rumpkins, which were fine, but not magical. Interesting that no tire makers have shown interest in a wider 700C that rides like the fat 650Bs reportedly ride. You'd think that just once some tire company would say, ya know, we don't need to add the 1,000th 700x23 to the marketplace - let's try something new! Nah, they're too busy making 700x23s in every color that matches bicycle paint. Can't afford those extra SKUs... I have to think that such a tire is forthcoming, with the proliferation of randonneuring, gravel riding, and bikes that can handle that size. I'll bet only if 'I' decides Grand Bois needs such a thing. After all, being market driven means you need more of those colored 700x23s... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: 650b Rambouillet was: Feeling Abondoned
On Wed, 2010-01-13 at 08:56 -0800, clevewh...@gmail.com wrote: The answer to why is toeclip overlap. My 54cm Rambouillet has a terrible problem with this and it really is a problem when I'm trying to negotiate traffic with a heavy load of groceries That's certainly an excellent reason! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: 650b Rambouillet was: Feeling Abondoned
On Wed, 2010-01-13 at 12:28 -0500, Seth Vidal wrote: Maybe I should try the 37mm paselas. I know the 35s are nice - so maybe the 37s are the bees knees. They are supposed to be the bees knees in wide 700Cs. I've never heard anybody say they're the equals of Hetres, though -- and, they've been very hard to find in the past year. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: 650b Rambouillet was: Feeling Abondoned
I am not able to get a 32mm (actual) tire under my Honjo fenders on my Rambouillet. Perhaps I could get a 30, but my sense is, despite the promotional claims, that the Ram. is designed to be optimized with 28 mm tires. I didn't see any point in trying to make that frame into something it wasn't intended to be. I had a '83 Trek 620 which could handle 35 mm tires, SKS fenders and a Campy Grand Sport brake. When I sold it and bought the 84 on ebay I was disappointed to find that a 32mm tire really squeezed the clearance. I bought an Ebisu All Purpose, which is a frame much like the AHH, to use for those times I want beefier tires. But I consider the Trek an excellent candidate for the conversion. I expect it to be great with the Grand Bois 42mm tires. I would suggest that there are lots of good '80s vintage frames around that would make good, inexpensive conversion candidates. Let your Ram be the 700c Rondonee style bike it was intended to be. Have fun. Michael On Jan 13, 11:17 am, Mike mjawn...@gmail.com wrote: Jim makes a really good point here. The Rambouillet works fine with fenders and 32s so why bother with 650b. If you don't use fenders you can fit a tire up to 37mm. There was an article or note in one of the RR, I can't remember which one, where Grant mentioned that their bikes weren't good for 650b conversion. --mike On Jan 13, 7:42 am, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery thill@gmail.com wrote: I've seen 650b Rambouillets: my question is why? You can already fender a 700x32ish, which is ample for most road riding. If running bigger tires is a priority, there are bikes designed to do that with a lot less hassle. On Jan 13, 6:39 am, Larry Powers lapower...@hotmail.com wrote: If I recall correctly the Rambo is not a could candidate for a 650b conversion becuase it has low bottom bracket to start with. Someone let me know if this is not true. Larry Powers Get a bicycle. You will not regret it if you live. - Mark Twain Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 20:29:41 -0800 Subject: [RBW] Re: Feeling Abondoned From: charles_v...@hotmail.com To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Couldn't you just convert to 650B wheels on the Ram and use longer reach brakes? You would get more clearance and a wide tire selection. Not sure on the bottom bracket height however. On Jan 12, 3:40 pm, Larry Powers lapower...@hotmail.com wrote: I took a nice tour on my Atlantis this past summer, I commute daily on my QB, my wife and I toured France on our Rambouillet and Bleriot (I also completed PBP on my Rambo) and my wife likes to tool around our neighborhood on her Glorius. We like Riv bikes and have bought our share. I know things change and can understand moving production to Taiwan because of the exchange rate. I guess the thing that pushed my buttons was to read that the Ruffy Tuffy/Rolly Polly tires will be discontinued. When I bought my Rambouillet it was touted as unique because it could use a large 28mm tire with fenders. Ruffy Tuffy tires have been my tire of choice for this bike and now Riv has abandoned both the bike and the tire. I believe that the Homer Hilson is the bike that Grant really intended to build when the developed the Rambouillet. But the parts available at the time placed limits on the design. The availability of longer and wider brakes finally allowed the Hilson to be built. I like the Hilson but having a Rambo and an Atlantis it is hard to justify the purchase of a bike in the middle. Change is inevitable and I hope that Riv continues to sell Lugged steel bike for a long time. I am very glad that I have my bikes because the new Riv's with limited sizes and sloping top tubes are not as close to my vision of what a bike should be. Hopefully they will maintain a few frames like the Hilson for those of us who appreciate a more classic shaped frame. If the economy improves maybe I will buy a Hilson or a Roadeo because I would really like to ride Brevets on a 32mm tire. I also hope that they do not completely forget those of us who supported them in the early years. I think I will pour a nice glass of wine, sit in the garage and admire my bikes. Larry Powers Get a bicycle. You will not regret it if you live. - Mark Twain _ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection.http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390706/direct/01/ _ Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390708/direct/01/- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to
[RBW] Re: 650b Rambouillet was: Feeling Abondoned
Interesting. As I just inflate the Schwalbe Marathon Supreme 700x40 to whatever the mood is. Usually about 45 front and 60 rear. And after about 2,400 miles on them last year, do perfer them to the CdlV in 650B. Those were good tires, but I didn't find them in the same quality league as the Schwable. At least for my riding preferences. Again, that's probably just my preference and my weight. If I were to lose a lot more weight, things might be different. No matter, right now, 40 is about the narrowest tire in the lineup. Although maybe my 700C studded on the Hillborne are not so wide. But that bike hasn't been out yet this year. Weather too crummy. The differences in folks getting tires to fit in the Ram make me wonder if there are either rim issues involved or - and this is highly unlikely - one batch might be slightly narrower in the stays? Eric Platt (who has cabin fever and the Atlantis on the road to nowhere trainer isn't helping) On Jan 13, 11:05�am, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: On Wed, 2010-01-13 at 08:52 -0800, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery wrote: I remember the article that Mike mentioned. I think the point was that Riv bikes already have good clearances, so why bother (not to mention BB height issues...) In the early days of RBW's promotion of 650B, a lot of people were converting 27/700 bikes for no clear reason, since many of the conversions already had ample tire-space (many 1970s bikes had loads of room). Of course, if you have an early 80s Italian racing bike or something else with minimal clearance, then there are clear benefits to the conversion. We did many of these, which were well received by their owners, and made the bikes much more useful and interesting. On Jan 13, 10:17 am, Mike mjawn...@gmail.com wrote: Jim makes a really good point here. The Rambouillet works fine with fenders and 32s so why bother with 650b. If you don't use fenders you can fit a tire up to 37mm. There was an article or note in one of the RR, I can't remember which one, where Grant mentioned that their bikes weren't good for 650b conversion. On the other hand, if you can fit it, there is a WORLD of difference between a 650Bx40 Hetre and any 32mm tire. �There's even a world of difference between a 38mm CdlV and any 32mm tire. �I have all these sizes, and I speak from experience. � Also, I've used 35 and 38mm 700C tires in the past (although not the current gen. Pasela 37mm, which by all accounts is the best wide 700C). In my opinion, based on my experiences, there is simply no comparison between the plush, velvety ride of the wide 650Bs and the harsh, unpleasant, heavy-feeling ride of the wide 700Cs I've tried. � And the best of the wide 700C lot, the now-defunct Bruce Gordon Rock 'n Road knobby, had other issues: very fast wear, and a wicked rebound. Hit a good sized bump with it, and it was like slamming a basketball on the ground: BOING! �Hang on to the handlebar, lest you lose it. In my experience, the wide 700Cs just aren't the same as the wide 650Bs. They're generally much higher pressure (in some cases, labeled inflate to 90 or 100 psi) than the corresponding width 650Bs, which often are labeled 50psi max pressure, with much stiffer sidewalls and beefier construction all around. �Supple, they're not.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: 650b Rambouillet was: Feeling Abondoned
MichaelH wrote, the Ram. is designed to be optimized with 28 mm tires. I didn't see any point in trying to make that frame into something it wasn't intended to be. I agree with that. When I think of my Romulus, I know it was designed around the Shimano medium reach brakes and for 28mm tires with fenders or up to 37mm without. That determined the design details of the whole bike. As it is, that's pretty darn versatile! It is a road bike, afterall. I run mine with 28s and fenders, and I've been riding 35mm Paselas, and those are a dream - I would say almost equal to a CdlV. One can always get another bike built around 650B - and the producers mentioned earlier are not the only ones - seems like younger Rando riders and custom builders are really going after the classic 650B rando bike. All this being said, I just did my first long-ish ride on the Hetres now on my 650B Custom Protovelo (kinda like a Saluki). Wow. Those are some fast, smooth tires. Its like they're not even there like you're floating along -- and fast! And with the 38mm Grand Bois and the Pari-Motos coming down the pipe, they should offer some very nice 650B performance options for distance events and general distance/ camping riding. I really do wish Rivendell offered 650B in the larger sizes, up to 62cm. I don't know whay I like 650B so much - it doesn't make much sense. True, there's nothing in 700c that can equal the Hetre, and the same will probably be the case for the new 650B tires. One can always go Riv custom for that Grant magic! I heard a rumor that there is a 650B Pasela in the pipe... Esteban San Diego, Calif. On Jan 13, 6:01 pm, EricP ericpl...@aol.com wrote: Interesting. As I just inflate the Schwalbe Marathon Supreme 700x40 to whatever the mood is. Usually about 45 front and 60 rear. And after about 2,400 miles on them last year, do perfer them to the CdlV in 650B. Those were good tires, but I didn't find them in the same quality league as the Schwable. At least for my riding preferences. Again, that's probably just my preference and my weight. If I were to lose a lot more weight, things might be different. No matter, right now, 40 is about the narrowest tire in the lineup. Although maybe my 700C studded on the Hillborne are not so wide. But that bike hasn't been out yet this year. Weather too crummy. The differences in folks getting tires to fit in the Ram make me wonder if there are either rim issues involved or - and this is highly unlikely - one batch might be slightly narrower in the stays? Eric Platt (who has cabin fever and the Atlantis on the road to nowhere trainer isn't helping) On Jan 13, 11:05 am, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: On Wed, 2010-01-13 at 08:52 -0800, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery wrote: I remember the article that Mike mentioned. I think the point was that Riv bikes already have good clearances, so why bother (not to mention BB height issues...) In the early days of RBW's promotion of 650B, a lot of people were converting 27/700 bikes for no clear reason, since many of the conversions already had ample tire-space (many 1970s bikes had loads of room). Of course, if you have an early 80s Italian racing bike or something else with minimal clearance, then there are clear benefits to the conversion. We did many of these, which were well received by their owners, and made the bikes much more useful and interesting. On Jan 13, 10:17 am, Mike mjawn...@gmail.com wrote: Jim makes a really good point here. The Rambouillet works fine with fenders and 32s so why bother with 650b. If you don't use fenders you can fit a tire up to 37mm. There was an article or note in one of the RR, I can't remember which one, where Grant mentioned that their bikes weren't good for 650b conversion. On the other hand, if you can fit it, there is a WORLD of difference between a 650Bx40 Hetre and any 32mm tire. There's even a world of difference between a 38mm CdlV and any 32mm tire. I have all these sizes, and I speak from experience. Also, I've used 35 and 38mm 700C tires in the past (although not the current gen. Pasela 37mm, which by all accounts is the best wide 700C). In my opinion, based on my experiences, there is simply no comparison between the plush, velvety ride of the wide 650Bs and the harsh, unpleasant, heavy-feeling ride of the wide 700Cs I've tried. And the best of the wide 700C lot, the now-defunct Bruce Gordon Rock 'n Road knobby, had other issues: very fast wear, and a wicked rebound. Hit a good sized bump with it, and it was like slamming a basketball on the ground: BOING! Hang on to the handlebar, lest you lose it. In my experience, the wide 700Cs just aren't the same as the wide 650Bs. They're generally much higher pressure (in some cases, labeled inflate to 90 or 100 psi) than the corresponding width 650Bs, which often are labeled 50psi max pressure, with much
