Re: [RBW] Re: 9 Speed Cassette Availability
Agree! For those who ride Campy and 11 speed, there is a 12-32 Centaur cassette that works well. I much prefer a 12t cog over an 11t bc it comes with a more useable 16t cog. Otherwise, 12t starting cogs, outside of the 12-36 and I think a 12-28 are basically nonexistent for 11 speed. Good Luck! On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 2:03:26 PM UTC-8 Steve Palincsar wrote: > For most road drivetrains (i.e., not 26" wheels, and not tiny microdrive > chain rings) 12 is a better 1st position than 11 (because it's not as > unreasonably high) and in the case of the 12-36, it can easily be > customized into a 13-36 simply by replacing the 1st position sprocket (and > for most road drive trains with 48T chain rings or larger, a 13T 1st > position gives you a more usable top gear than a 12, and at the very top > end a 1 tooth gap is nicer than a 2 tooth gap). In my opinion. > > > On 1/26/21 4:55 PM, lconley wrote: > > Shimano makes 11-34, 11-36, 11-40 11 speed mountain cassettes. The 11-34 > and 11-36 are pretty pricey though. > > Laing > > On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 4:44:04 PM UTC-5 Tim Baldwin wrote: > >> Steve, thanks for the links. I guess I meant hard to find in that I went >> to my LBS who did not have any in stock and could not find any currently >> available through distributors. I figure this low supply is due to the >> surge in sales last year but curious if it could be the beginning of the >> industry phasing out of 9 and lower speed parts moving forward. I'm fine >> ordering some things online (mostly through Riv or other small >> manufacturers that sell directly) but I do prefer supporting local shops. >> >> I could also swap chain rings but the crankset is new and my current >> cassette is older. Seems easier to swap the cassette. And I'm quite happy >> with the current steps in my gearing. >> >> Laing, I could fit 11 speed on my new wheel I'm building with a new model >> MI5 hub. I have used (and still have in my bin) a SRAM NX 11 speed >> cassette/derailleur before. I found the gear range lacking as it is 1x >> only. I also tried the Microshift Advent 9 speed. That one I did not like >> steps between gears as much. I guess after trying some of the newer stuff, >> I'm having trouble seeing the appeal. I can get the gear range I'm looking >> for with a 2x9. The 1x systems seem to either give up range or are >> ridiculously expensive. There's also something about 9 speed looking >> "right" to me on a Rivendell. >> >> My main concern is getting parts in the future. I helped out at my LBS >> over the summer because they were so busy. This will most likely be another >> busy year for bike shops. I think I'll order a handful of cassettes to tide >> me over for a while. I hope that as manufacturers catch up with resupplying >> parts they continue to make "outdated" 9, 8 and 7 speed stuff. There are >> certainly a greater number of options for cassettes when going to 10 and >> above. >> >> On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 1:39:29 PM UTC-6 lconley wrote: >> >>> Note that new Shimano 11-speed mountain cassettes fit on old 9-speed >>> Shimano style hubs - the 11 speed is only 0.05mm wider than the 9-speed. I >>> just put a 12-46 (I used a Shimano 12 tooth 1st position cog in place of >>> the 11 tooth cog) 11-speed cassette on my old Phil Wood 9-speed touring hub >>> for my Gus Boots Willsen. Fits beautifully - chain even clears the 29x2.5 >>> tire by 4mm. The inner large cogs kind of cantilever over the hub flange >>> >>> Laing >>> >>> On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 2:12:51 PM UTC-5 Tim Baldwin wrote: >>> I'm currently looking for 9 speed cassettes for my Atlantis. I'm hoping to be able to do a tour this year after staying local in 2020. With touring in mind, I'd like 12-36 but it seems those are rather hard to find right now. I currently have 11-32, but I'm riding in flat Chicago. The 12-36 would give me the same ratios for my normal riding but get rid of the 11t, which I don't use, and would give me a 36t, which I foresee using on my trip. With the VO 46/30 crank I'm using, this gives me a range of 21 to 100 gear inches, which seems perfect to me. After seeing the high demand for bike parts in 2020, what do Riv riders predict for future availability of 9 speed parts? I found someone with a stash of 12-36 9 speed cassettes for sale on ebay, do I stock up now? Also, how much does cassette price/quality make a difference? I've mostly used cheaper cassettes but wondering if would make sense to go up to 10 speed to take advantage of fancier cassettes. The cassette on ebay I mentioned is Alivio so on the lower end of the spectrum. I'm using a Suntour thumb shifter in friction so I think I could make 10 speed work. However there's something about the ease of setup and maintenance of 9 speed shifting that makes me want to stay in that wo
[RBW] Re: 9 Speed Cassette Availability
OP Tim in Chicago, I chose 9-spd when building my new bike in March because of availability and the selection of ranges and qualities offered in 9 -speed versus higher counts. I'm also using 46/30 chainrings. Collective input on problem-free index mode shifting reports that 9-spd maintains function longer than higher cog counts before adjustments, service or replacement of components for wear is required. Cost of parts also considered, although any deals are evaporating in bicycling parts. I'm no racer, fanboy or over funded/under informed newbie. I like to ride, I'm confident about my "performance" and like to narrow my expenditures in parts or formats to those I know focus benefits of my greater than shelf stock choices to things I know I will produce the returns I expect. Choosing the cost of doing business, I guess. Limitations of cassette stocks under the pandemic seem to apply uniformly, felt in the higher volume items first regardless of cog count, a result of demand outstripping supplies. Andy Cheatham Pittsburgh On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 2:12:51 PM UTC-5 Tim Baldwin wrote: > > I'm currently looking for 9 speed cassettes for my Atlantis. I'm hoping to > be able to do a tour this year after staying local in 2020. With touring in > mind, I'd like 12-36 but it seems those are rather hard to find right now. > I currently have 11-32, but I'm riding in flat Chicago. The 12-36 would > give me the same ratios for my normal riding but get rid of the 11t, which > I don't use, and would give me a 36t, which I foresee using on my trip. > With the VO 46/30 crank I'm using, this gives me a range of 21 to 100 gear > inches, which seems perfect to me. After seeing the high demand for bike > parts in 2020, what do Riv riders predict for future availability of 9 > speed parts? I found someone with a stash of 12-36 9 speed cassettes for > sale on ebay, do I stock up now? > > Also, how much does cassette price/quality make a difference? I've mostly > used cheaper cassettes but wondering if would make sense to go up to 10 > speed to take advantage of fancier cassettes. The cassette on ebay I > mentioned is Alivio so on the lower end of the spectrum. I'm using a > Suntour thumb shifter in friction so I think I could make 10 speed work. > However there's something about the ease of setup and maintenance of 9 > speed shifting that makes me want to stay in that world. > > Tim B in Chicago > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/7cdb6c88-0b0e-4f14-a3b3-761a6a4bc273n%40googlegroups.com.
Re: [RBW] Re: 9 Speed Cassette Availability
On 1/26/21 10:16 PM, Tim Baldwin wrote: Steve, I agree starting cassettes with a 12 tooth cog makes more sense for most riders. Aeroperf and Paul, thanks for that feedback. It wasn't my intention to knock Alivio.I swapped the Deore brakes on my Atlantis for Paul Motolites with Paul levers over the summer. I would say that was a definite upgrade in terms of feel and performance. I was curious if going high end on cassette would make a similar difference in terms of feel/performance. It sounds like spending money on the rear derailleur would make more of a difference. The pricier cassette would only be lighter. Well, some of the really high end cassettes look a lot sexier too, but how often do you get a chance to actually take a good look at a cassette? In terms of longevity, sometimes the cheaper ones have an edge, if the high end ones use titanium sprockets for lightness, as has been done in the past. Those don't last very long. Laing, it sounds like this is more of a problem with parts being harder to get after a booming year. Like I said I was only basing this on my LBS, who in past years was able to get most any part within a day or two, saying many 9 speed cassettes (including the 12-36) were back-ordered. There have been supply chain disruptions with all kinds of products, even in areas (like toilet paper) where there wasn't an unanticipated bike boom on top of a pandemic. Seriously, those Shimano 12-36 cassettes are perfectly fine. Easier to install and remove than some of the higher end ones, because aside from the 1st position sprocket it's all one hunk of metal. The 12-27 has two or maybe three sets of sprockets mounted on spiders, plus some loose sprockets and loose spacers and takes a lot longer to R&R. Joe, the Analog has some very tempting stuff. Not sure if I could get myself to spend that much on a cassette and then ride it through winter! Tim B in Chicago On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 6:08:09 PM UTC-6 Joe Bernard wrote: Don't even play, get yerself a 12-speed Garbaruk cassette from Analog for about $250. It comes in colors! 👍 On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 3:52:53 PM UTC-8 Paul Brodek wrote: In general the fancier cassettes are primarily lighter, usually by using multi-cog carriers, while SRAM's highest-end cassettes are almost entirely one-piece affairs. The difference in weight can be substantial, almost 1/2lb going from a 11-36t SRAM 1050>1090 (10spd), but the $/gram cost gets high, and the weight saved compared to the overall weight of a loaded touring bike + rider is pretty insubstantial. Paul Brodek Hillsdale, NJ USA On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 5:50:49 PM UTC-5 David Person wrote: Lots of options for 12-36 9-speed on eBay. I think the main difference in quality and price has to do with weight. Lower 'quality' cassette is going to weigh more. https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=12%2036%20Cassette%209&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-156598-662049-2&mkcid=2&keyword=12%2036%20cassette%209&crlp=473230128454_&MT_ID=&geo_id=&rlsatarget=kwd-301632702719&adpos=&device=c&mktype=&loc=9031172&poi=&abcId=9110001&cmpgn=11204157517&sitelnk=&adgroupid=112375772800&network=g&matchtype=p&gclid=Cj0KCQiAmL-ABhDFARIsAKywVaf1sHfO0IWrIYCFiNSAxz56TKp9WSp0ixiZDk38-pRhRPnZMgJBrbMaAh5XEALw_wcB On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 2:19:18 PM UTC-8 lconley wrote: There is also IRD, who makes a 12-30 and a12-34 9 speed. and a 13-38 8 speed for that matter. Note that I just built a bike with a brand new Shimano 14-34 7 speed FREEWHEEL (Shimano actually just issued an updated model within the last year) with a twist grip indexing a Shimano Altus M310 derailleur. Parts obsolescence is not as much of a worry as some think. But I do of course have a brand new in the box 12-36 Shimano 9 speed just in case Laing On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 5:03:26 PM UTC-5 Steve Palincsar wrote: For most road drivetrains (i.e., not 26" wheels, and not tiny microdrive chain rings) 12 is a better 1st position than 11 (because it's not as unreasonably high) and in the case of the 12-36, it can easily be customized into a 13-36 simply by replacing the 1st position sprocket (and for most road drive trains with 48T chain rings or larger, a 13T 1st position gives you a more usable top gear than a 12, and at the very top end a 1 tooth gap is nicer than a 2 tooth gap). In my opinion. -- You received this message because yo
Re: [RBW] Re: 9 Speed Cassette Availability
Haha, I don't think I could ever pay that kinda cash for a cassette either. But it sure is pretty! On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 7:16:04 PM UTC-8 Tim Baldwin wrote: > Steve, I agree starting cassettes with a 12 tooth cog makes more sense for > most riders. > Aeroperf and Paul, thanks for that feedback. It wasn't my intention to > knock Alivio.I swapped the Deore brakes on my Atlantis for Paul Motolites > with Paul levers over the summer. I would say that was a definite upgrade > in terms of feel and performance. I was curious if going high end on > cassette would make a similar difference in terms of feel/performance. It > sounds like spending money on the rear derailleur would make more of a > difference. The pricier cassette would only be lighter. > Laing, it sounds like this is more of a problem with parts being harder to > get after a booming year. Like I said I was only basing this on my LBS, who > in past years was able to get most any part within a day or two, saying > many 9 speed cassettes (including the 12-36) were back-ordered. > Joe, the Analog has some very tempting stuff. Not sure if I could get > myself to spend that much on a cassette and then ride it through winter! > > Tim B in Chicago > On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 6:08:09 PM UTC-6 Joe Bernard wrote: > >> Don't even play, get yerself a 12-speed Garbaruk cassette from Analog for >> about $250. It comes in colors! 👍 >> >> On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 3:52:53 PM UTC-8 Paul Brodek wrote: >> >>> In general the fancier cassettes are primarily lighter, usually by using >>> multi-cog carriers, while SRAM's highest-end cassettes are almost entirely >>> one-piece affairs. The difference in weight can be substantial, almost >>> 1/2lb going from a 11-36t SRAM 1050>1090 (10spd), but the $/gram cost gets >>> high, and the weight saved compared to the overall weight of a loaded >>> touring bike + rider is pretty insubstantial. >>> >>> Paul Brodek >>> Hillsdale, NJ USA >>> >>> On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 5:50:49 PM UTC-5 David Person wrote: >>> Lots of options for 12-36 9-speed on eBay. I think the main difference in quality and price has to do with weight. Lower 'quality' cassette is going to weigh more. https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=12%2036%20Cassette%209&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-156598-662049-2&mkcid=2&keyword=12%2036%20cassette%209&crlp=473230128454_&MT_ID=&geo_id=&rlsatarget=kwd-301632702719&adpos=&device=c&mktype=&loc=9031172&poi=&abcId=9110001&cmpgn=11204157517&sitelnk=&adgroupid=112375772800&network=g&matchtype=p&gclid=Cj0KCQiAmL-ABhDFARIsAKywVaf1sHfO0IWrIYCFiNSAxz56TKp9WSp0ixiZDk38-pRhRPnZMgJBrbMaAh5XEALw_wcB On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 2:19:18 PM UTC-8 lconley wrote: > There is also IRD, who makes a 12-30 and a12-34 9 speed. and a 13-38 8 > speed for that matter. > > Note that I just built a bike with a brand new Shimano 14-34 7 speed > FREEWHEEL (Shimano actually just issued an updated model within the last > year) with a twist grip indexing a Shimano Altus M310 derailleur. Parts > obsolescence is not as much of a worry as some think. But I do of course > have a brand new in the box 12-36 Shimano 9 speed just in case > > Laing > > On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 5:03:26 PM UTC-5 Steve Palincsar wrote: > >> For most road drivetrains (i.e., not 26" wheels, and not tiny >> microdrive chain rings) 12 is a better 1st position than 11 (because >> it's >> not as unreasonably high) and in the case of the 12-36, it can easily be >> customized into a 13-36 simply by replacing the 1st position sprocket >> (and >> for most road drive trains with 48T chain rings or larger, a 13T 1st >> position gives you a more usable top gear than a 12, and at the very top >> end a 1 tooth gap is nicer than a 2 tooth gap). In my opinion. >> >> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/c24fc93d-6f77-4841-8111-3c2ccb26809en%40googlegroups.com.
Re: [RBW] Re: 9 Speed Cassette Availability
Steve, I agree starting cassettes with a 12 tooth cog makes more sense for most riders. Aeroperf and Paul, thanks for that feedback. It wasn't my intention to knock Alivio.I swapped the Deore brakes on my Atlantis for Paul Motolites with Paul levers over the summer. I would say that was a definite upgrade in terms of feel and performance. I was curious if going high end on cassette would make a similar difference in terms of feel/performance. It sounds like spending money on the rear derailleur would make more of a difference. The pricier cassette would only be lighter. Laing, it sounds like this is more of a problem with parts being harder to get after a booming year. Like I said I was only basing this on my LBS, who in past years was able to get most any part within a day or two, saying many 9 speed cassettes (including the 12-36) were back-ordered. Joe, the Analog has some very tempting stuff. Not sure if I could get myself to spend that much on a cassette and then ride it through winter! Tim B in Chicago On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 6:08:09 PM UTC-6 Joe Bernard wrote: > Don't even play, get yerself a 12-speed Garbaruk cassette from Analog for > about $250. It comes in colors! 👍 > > On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 3:52:53 PM UTC-8 Paul Brodek wrote: > >> In general the fancier cassettes are primarily lighter, usually by using >> multi-cog carriers, while SRAM's highest-end cassettes are almost entirely >> one-piece affairs. The difference in weight can be substantial, almost >> 1/2lb going from a 11-36t SRAM 1050>1090 (10spd), but the $/gram cost gets >> high, and the weight saved compared to the overall weight of a loaded >> touring bike + rider is pretty insubstantial. >> >> Paul Brodek >> Hillsdale, NJ USA >> >> On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 5:50:49 PM UTC-5 David Person wrote: >> >>> Lots of options for 12-36 9-speed on eBay. I think the main difference >>> in quality and price has to do with weight. Lower 'quality' cassette is >>> going to weigh more. >>> >>> >>> https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=12%2036%20Cassette%209&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-156598-662049-2&mkcid=2&keyword=12%2036%20cassette%209&crlp=473230128454_&MT_ID=&geo_id=&rlsatarget=kwd-301632702719&adpos=&device=c&mktype=&loc=9031172&poi=&abcId=9110001&cmpgn=11204157517&sitelnk=&adgroupid=112375772800&network=g&matchtype=p&gclid=Cj0KCQiAmL-ABhDFARIsAKywVaf1sHfO0IWrIYCFiNSAxz56TKp9WSp0ixiZDk38-pRhRPnZMgJBrbMaAh5XEALw_wcB >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 2:19:18 PM UTC-8 lconley wrote: >>> There is also IRD, who makes a 12-30 and a12-34 9 speed. and a 13-38 8 speed for that matter. Note that I just built a bike with a brand new Shimano 14-34 7 speed FREEWHEEL (Shimano actually just issued an updated model within the last year) with a twist grip indexing a Shimano Altus M310 derailleur. Parts obsolescence is not as much of a worry as some think. But I do of course have a brand new in the box 12-36 Shimano 9 speed just in case Laing On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 5:03:26 PM UTC-5 Steve Palincsar wrote: > For most road drivetrains (i.e., not 26" wheels, and not tiny > microdrive chain rings) 12 is a better 1st position than 11 (because it's > not as unreasonably high) and in the case of the 12-36, it can easily be > customized into a 13-36 simply by replacing the 1st position sprocket > (and > for most road drive trains with 48T chain rings or larger, a 13T 1st > position gives you a more usable top gear than a 12, and at the very top > end a 1 tooth gap is nicer than a 2 tooth gap). In my opinion. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/06885b53-12e8-45f7-8da7-cc70a34de050n%40googlegroups.com.
Re: [RBW] Re: 9 Speed Cassette Availability
In general the fancier cassettes are primarily lighter, usually by using multi-cog carriers, while SRAM's highest-end cassettes are almost entirely one-piece affairs. The difference in weight can be substantial, almost 1/2lb going from a 11-36t SRAM 1050>1090 (10spd), but the $/gram cost gets high, and the weight saved compared to the overall weight of a loaded touring bike + rider is pretty insubstantial. Paul Brodek Hillsdale, NJ USA On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 5:50:49 PM UTC-5 David Person wrote: > Lots of options for 12-36 9-speed on eBay. I think the main difference in > quality and price has to do with weight. Lower 'quality' cassette is going > to weigh more. > > > https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=12%2036%20Cassette%209&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-156598-662049-2&mkcid=2&keyword=12%2036%20cassette%209&crlp=473230128454_&MT_ID=&geo_id=&rlsatarget=kwd-301632702719&adpos=&device=c&mktype=&loc=9031172&poi=&abcId=9110001&cmpgn=11204157517&sitelnk=&adgroupid=112375772800&network=g&matchtype=p&gclid=Cj0KCQiAmL-ABhDFARIsAKywVaf1sHfO0IWrIYCFiNSAxz56TKp9WSp0ixiZDk38-pRhRPnZMgJBrbMaAh5XEALw_wcB > > > > On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 2:19:18 PM UTC-8 lconley wrote: > >> There is also IRD, who makes a 12-30 and a12-34 9 speed. and a 13-38 8 >> speed for that matter. >> >> Note that I just built a bike with a brand new Shimano 14-34 7 speed >> FREEWHEEL (Shimano actually just issued an updated model within the last >> year) with a twist grip indexing a Shimano Altus M310 derailleur. Parts >> obsolescence is not as much of a worry as some think. But I do of course >> have a brand new in the box 12-36 Shimano 9 speed just in case >> >> Laing >> >> On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 5:03:26 PM UTC-5 Steve Palincsar wrote: >> >>> For most road drivetrains (i.e., not 26" wheels, and not tiny microdrive >>> chain rings) 12 is a better 1st position than 11 (because it's not as >>> unreasonably high) and in the case of the 12-36, it can easily be >>> customized into a 13-36 simply by replacing the 1st position sprocket (and >>> for most road drive trains with 48T chain rings or larger, a 13T 1st >>> position gives you a more usable top gear than a 12, and at the very top >>> end a 1 tooth gap is nicer than a 2 tooth gap). In my opinion. >>> >>> >>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/2c1b870d-153b-46ec-b43a-765ed6b414abn%40googlegroups.com.
Re: [RBW] Re: 9 Speed Cassette Availability
Lots of options for 12-36 9-speed on eBay. I think the main difference in quality and price has to do with weight. Lower 'quality' cassette is going to weigh more. https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=12%2036%20Cassette%209&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-156598-662049-2&mkcid=2&keyword=12%2036%20cassette%209&crlp=473230128454_&MT_ID=&geo_id=&rlsatarget=kwd-301632702719&adpos=&device=c&mktype=&loc=9031172&poi=&abcId=9110001&cmpgn=11204157517&sitelnk=&adgroupid=112375772800&network=g&matchtype=p&gclid=Cj0KCQiAmL-ABhDFARIsAKywVaf1sHfO0IWrIYCFiNSAxz56TKp9WSp0ixiZDk38-pRhRPnZMgJBrbMaAh5XEALw_wcB On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 2:19:18 PM UTC-8 lconley wrote: > There is also IRD, who makes a 12-30 and a12-34 9 speed. and a 13-38 8 > speed for that matter. > > Note that I just built a bike with a brand new Shimano 14-34 7 speed > FREEWHEEL (Shimano actually just issued an updated model within the last > year) with a twist grip indexing a Shimano Altus M310 derailleur. Parts > obsolescence is not as much of a worry as some think. But I do of course > have a brand new in the box 12-36 Shimano 9 speed just in case > > Laing > > On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 5:03:26 PM UTC-5 Steve Palincsar wrote: > >> For most road drivetrains (i.e., not 26" wheels, and not tiny microdrive >> chain rings) 12 is a better 1st position than 11 (because it's not as >> unreasonably high) and in the case of the 12-36, it can easily be >> customized into a 13-36 simply by replacing the 1st position sprocket (and >> for most road drive trains with 48T chain rings or larger, a 13T 1st >> position gives you a more usable top gear than a 12, and at the very top >> end a 1 tooth gap is nicer than a 2 tooth gap). In my opinion. >> >> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/3be40580-fbc5-4463-8091-8881681ec585n%40googlegroups.com.
Re: [RBW] Re: 9 Speed Cassette Availability
There is also IRD, who makes a 12-30 and a12-34 9 speed. and a 13-38 8 speed for that matter. Note that I just built a bike with a brand new Shimano 14-34 7 speed FREEWHEEL (Shimano actually just issued an updated model within the last year) with a twist grip indexing a Shimano Altus M310 derailleur. Parts obsolescence is not as much of a worry as some think. But I do of course have a brand new in the box 12-36 Shimano 9 speed just in case Laing On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 5:03:26 PM UTC-5 Steve Palincsar wrote: > For most road drivetrains (i.e., not 26" wheels, and not tiny microdrive > chain rings) 12 is a better 1st position than 11 (because it's not as > unreasonably high) and in the case of the 12-36, it can easily be > customized into a 13-36 simply by replacing the 1st position sprocket (and > for most road drive trains with 48T chain rings or larger, a 13T 1st > position gives you a more usable top gear than a 12, and at the very top > end a 1 tooth gap is nicer than a 2 tooth gap). In my opinion. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/37bf22db-083e-48dd-b09d-946770d2eb51n%40googlegroups.com.
Re: [RBW] Re: 9 Speed Cassette Availability
I’ve tried SRAM 11-32, Shimano HG300 11-32, HG400 11-34 & 12-36, all 9-speed, and HG500 11-34 10-speed on my Sam, all run by Microshift flat bar 9-speed shifters. The 10-speed was run in friction mode, and was a bit of a stretch (literally) but do-able. I've had no difficulty finding 9-speed equipment. What is this quality issue of which you speak? Except for the SRAM, which came on the bike from Riv and shifted just fine, they are all HyperGlide. So they have the equivalent shifting geometry (ramps and contouring). What you get for more money is essentially a few grams lighter weight. I only tried the different cassettes to check out different gearing ratios with my 46-36-26 front end and had no problems with any of them. I will note that the 9-speed cassettes would take a 7, 8, 9, or 10 speed chain, but the 10-speed really wanted a 10-speed chain. >From someone who tours on pavement, dirt, and sand, don’t knock Alivio cassettes too badly. they are reportedly better shifting than Acera and Altus, and reasonably bullet-proof. Your real money should be put into the derailleur, though. You might even be able to go to your LBS and just order a replacement ring to customize your gearing. https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-CS-HG400-9-3680A.pdf On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 5:03:26 PM UTC-5 Steve Palincsar wrote: > For most road drivetrains (i.e., not 26" wheels, and not tiny microdrive > chain rings) 12 is a better 1st position than 11 (because it's not as > unreasonably high) and in the case of the 12-36, it can easily be > customized into a 13-36 simply by replacing the 1st position sprocket (and > for most road drive trains with 48T chain rings or larger, a 13T 1st > position gives you a more usable top gear than a 12, and at the very top > end a 1 tooth gap is nicer than a 2 tooth gap). In my opinion. > > > On 1/26/21 4:55 PM, lconley wrote: > > Shimano makes 11-34, 11-36, 11-40 11 speed mountain cassettes. The 11-34 > and 11-36 are pretty pricey though. > > Laing > > On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 4:44:04 PM UTC-5 Tim Baldwin wrote: > >> Steve, thanks for the links. I guess I meant hard to find in that I went >> to my LBS who did not have any in stock and could not find any currently >> available through distributors. I figure this low supply is due to the >> surge in sales last year but curious if it could be the beginning of the >> industry phasing out of 9 and lower speed parts moving forward. I'm fine >> ordering some things online (mostly through Riv or other small >> manufacturers that sell directly) but I do prefer supporting local shops. >> >> I could also swap chain rings but the crankset is new and my current >> cassette is older. Seems easier to swap the cassette. And I'm quite happy >> with the current steps in my gearing. >> >> Laing, I could fit 11 speed on my new wheel I'm building with a new model >> MI5 hub. I have used (and still have in my bin) a SRAM NX 11 speed >> cassette/derailleur before. I found the gear range lacking as it is 1x >> only. I also tried the Microshift Advent 9 speed. That one I did not like >> steps between gears as much. I guess after trying some of the newer stuff, >> I'm having trouble seeing the appeal. I can get the gear range I'm looking >> for with a 2x9. The 1x systems seem to either give up range or are >> ridiculously expensive. There's also something about 9 speed looking >> "right" to me on a Rivendell. >> >> My main concern is getting parts in the future. I helped out at my LBS >> over the summer because they were so busy. This will most likely be another >> busy year for bike shops. I think I'll order a handful of cassettes to tide >> me over for a while. I hope that as manufacturers catch up with resupplying >> parts they continue to make "outdated" 9, 8 and 7 speed stuff. There are >> certainly a greater number of options for cassettes when going to 10 and >> above. >> >> On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 1:39:29 PM UTC-6 lconley wrote: >> >>> Note that new Shimano 11-speed mountain cassettes fit on old 9-speed >>> Shimano style hubs - the 11 speed is only 0.05mm wider than the 9-speed. I >>> just put a 12-46 (I used a Shimano 12 tooth 1st position cog in place of >>> the 11 tooth cog) 11-speed cassette on my old Phil Wood 9-speed touring hub >>> for my Gus Boots Willsen. Fits beautifully - chain even clears the 29x2.5 >>> tire by 4mm. The inner large cogs kind of cantilever over the hub flange >>> >>> Laing >>> >>> On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 2:12:51 PM UTC-5 Tim Baldwin wrote: >>> I'm currently looking for 9 speed cassettes for my Atlantis. I'm hoping to be able to do a tour this year after staying local in 2020. With touring in mind, I'd like 12-36 but it seems those are rather hard to find right now. I currently have 11-32, but I'm riding in flat Chicago. The 12-36 would give me the same ratios for my normal riding but get rid of the 11t
Re: [RBW] Re: 9 Speed Cassette Availability
For most road drivetrains (i.e., not 26" wheels, and not tiny microdrive chain rings) 12 is a better 1st position than 11 (because it's not as unreasonably high) and in the case of the 12-36, it can easily be customized into a 13-36 simply by replacing the 1st position sprocket (and for most road drive trains with 48T chain rings or larger, a 13T 1st position gives you a more usable top gear than a 12, and at the very top end a 1 tooth gap is nicer than a 2 tooth gap). In my opinion. On 1/26/21 4:55 PM, lconley wrote: Shimano makes 11-34, 11-36, 11-40 11 speed mountain cassettes. The 11-34 and 11-36 are pretty pricey though. Laing On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 4:44:04 PM UTC-5 Tim Baldwin wrote: Steve, thanks for the links. I guess I meant hard to find in that I went to my LBS who did not have any in stock and could not find any currently available through distributors. I figure this low supply is due to the surge in sales last year but curious if it could be the beginning of the industry phasing out of 9 and lower speed parts moving forward. I'm fine ordering some things online (mostly through Riv or other small manufacturers that sell directly) but I do prefer supporting local shops. I could also swap chain rings but the crankset is new and my current cassette is older. Seems easier to swap the cassette. And I'm quite happy with the current steps in my gearing. Laing, I could fit 11 speed on my new wheel I'm building with a new model MI5 hub. I have used (and still have in my bin) a SRAM NX 11 speed cassette/derailleur before. I found the gear range lacking as it is 1x only. I also tried the Microshift Advent 9 speed. That one I did not like steps between gears as much. I guess after trying some of the newer stuff, I'm having trouble seeing the appeal. I can get the gear range I'm looking for with a 2x9. The 1x systems seem to either give up range or are ridiculously expensive. There's also something about 9 speed looking "right" to me on a Rivendell. My main concern is getting parts in the future. I helped out at my LBS over the summer because they were so busy. This will most likely be another busy year for bike shops. I think I'll order a handful of cassettes to tide me over for a while. I hope that as manufacturers catch up with resupplying parts they continue to make "outdated" 9, 8 and 7 speed stuff. There are certainly a greater number of options for cassettes when going to 10 and above. On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 1:39:29 PM UTC-6 lconley wrote: Note that new Shimano 11-speed mountain cassettes fit on old 9-speed Shimano style hubs - the 11 speed is only 0.05mm wider than the 9-speed. I just put a 12-46 (I used a Shimano 12 tooth 1st position cog in place of the 11 tooth cog) 11-speed cassette on my old Phil Wood 9-speed touring hub for my Gus Boots Willsen. Fits beautifully - chain even clears the 29x2.5 tire by 4mm. The inner large cogs kind of cantilever over the hub flange Laing On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 2:12:51 PM UTC-5 Tim Baldwin wrote: I'm currently looking for 9 speed cassettes for my Atlantis. I'm hoping to be able to do a tour this year after staying local in 2020. With touring in mind, I'd like 12-36 but it seems those are rather hard to find right now. I currently have 11-32, but I'm riding in flat Chicago. The 12-36 would give me the same ratios for my normal riding but get rid of the 11t, which I don't use, and would give me a 36t, which I foresee using on my trip. With the VO 46/30 crank I'm using, this gives me a range of 21 to 100 gear inches, which seems perfect to me. After seeing the high demand for bike parts in 2020, what do Riv riders predict for future availability of 9 speed parts? I found someone with a stash of 12-36 9 speed cassettes for sale on ebay, do I stock up now? Also, how much does cassette price/quality make a difference? I've mostly used cheaper cassettes but wondering if would make sense to go up to 10 speed to take advantage of fancier cassettes. The cassette on ebay I mentioned is Alivio so on the lower end of the spectrum. I'm using a Suntour thumb shifter in friction so I think I could make 10 speed work. However there's something about the ease of setup and maintenance of 9 speed shifting that makes me want to stay in that world. Tim B in Chicago -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to
[RBW] Re: 9 Speed Cassette Availability
There's always Microshift. They make some way-wide-range Shimano compatible 9-speeders for the Advent group and seem determined to keep feeding the markets the Big S is neglecting. On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 1:55:03 PM UTC-8 lconley wrote: > Shimano makes 11-34, 11-36, 11-40 11 speed mountain cassettes. The 11-34 > and 11-36 are pretty pricey though. > > Laing > > On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 4:44:04 PM UTC-5 Tim Baldwin wrote: > >> Steve, thanks for the links. I guess I meant hard to find in that I went >> to my LBS who did not have any in stock and could not find any currently >> available through distributors. I figure this low supply is due to the >> surge in sales last year but curious if it could be the beginning of the >> industry phasing out of 9 and lower speed parts moving forward. I'm fine >> ordering some things online (mostly through Riv or other small >> manufacturers that sell directly) but I do prefer supporting local shops. >> >> I could also swap chain rings but the crankset is new and my current >> cassette is older. Seems easier to swap the cassette. And I'm quite happy >> with the current steps in my gearing. >> >> Laing, I could fit 11 speed on my new wheel I'm building with a new model >> MI5 hub. I have used (and still have in my bin) a SRAM NX 11 speed >> cassette/derailleur before. I found the gear range lacking as it is 1x >> only. I also tried the Microshift Advent 9 speed. That one I did not like >> steps between gears as much. I guess after trying some of the newer stuff, >> I'm having trouble seeing the appeal. I can get the gear range I'm looking >> for with a 2x9. The 1x systems seem to either give up range or are >> ridiculously expensive. There's also something about 9 speed looking >> "right" to me on a Rivendell. >> >> My main concern is getting parts in the future. I helped out at my LBS >> over the summer because they were so busy. This will most likely be another >> busy year for bike shops. I think I'll order a handful of cassettes to tide >> me over for a while. I hope that as manufacturers catch up with resupplying >> parts they continue to make "outdated" 9, 8 and 7 speed stuff. There are >> certainly a greater number of options for cassettes when going to 10 and >> above. >> >> On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 1:39:29 PM UTC-6 lconley wrote: >> >>> Note that new Shimano 11-speed mountain cassettes fit on old 9-speed >>> Shimano style hubs - the 11 speed is only 0.05mm wider than the 9-speed. I >>> just put a 12-46 (I used a Shimano 12 tooth 1st position cog in place of >>> the 11 tooth cog) 11-speed cassette on my old Phil Wood 9-speed touring hub >>> for my Gus Boots Willsen. Fits beautifully - chain even clears the 29x2.5 >>> tire by 4mm. The inner large cogs kind of cantilever over the hub flange >>> >>> Laing >>> >>> On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 2:12:51 PM UTC-5 Tim Baldwin wrote: >>> I'm currently looking for 9 speed cassettes for my Atlantis. I'm hoping to be able to do a tour this year after staying local in 2020. With touring in mind, I'd like 12-36 but it seems those are rather hard to find right now. I currently have 11-32, but I'm riding in flat Chicago. The 12-36 would give me the same ratios for my normal riding but get rid of the 11t, which I don't use, and would give me a 36t, which I foresee using on my trip. With the VO 46/30 crank I'm using, this gives me a range of 21 to 100 gear inches, which seems perfect to me. After seeing the high demand for bike parts in 2020, what do Riv riders predict for future availability of 9 speed parts? I found someone with a stash of 12-36 9 speed cassettes for sale on ebay, do I stock up now? Also, how much does cassette price/quality make a difference? I've mostly used cheaper cassettes but wondering if would make sense to go up to 10 speed to take advantage of fancier cassettes. The cassette on ebay I mentioned is Alivio so on the lower end of the spectrum. I'm using a Suntour thumb shifter in friction so I think I could make 10 speed work. However there's something about the ease of setup and maintenance of 9 speed shifting that makes me want to stay in that world. Tim B in Chicago >>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/ce287e75-bd98-44b0-a203-eb66f2f39f72n%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: 9 Speed Cassette Availability
Shimano makes 11-34, 11-36, 11-40 11 speed mountain cassettes. The 11-34 and 11-36 are pretty pricey though. Laing On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 4:44:04 PM UTC-5 Tim Baldwin wrote: > Steve, thanks for the links. I guess I meant hard to find in that I went > to my LBS who did not have any in stock and could not find any currently > available through distributors. I figure this low supply is due to the > surge in sales last year but curious if it could be the beginning of the > industry phasing out of 9 and lower speed parts moving forward. I'm fine > ordering some things online (mostly through Riv or other small > manufacturers that sell directly) but I do prefer supporting local shops. > > I could also swap chain rings but the crankset is new and my current > cassette is older. Seems easier to swap the cassette. And I'm quite happy > with the current steps in my gearing. > > Laing, I could fit 11 speed on my new wheel I'm building with a new model > MI5 hub. I have used (and still have in my bin) a SRAM NX 11 speed > cassette/derailleur before. I found the gear range lacking as it is 1x > only. I also tried the Microshift Advent 9 speed. That one I did not like > steps between gears as much. I guess after trying some of the newer stuff, > I'm having trouble seeing the appeal. I can get the gear range I'm looking > for with a 2x9. The 1x systems seem to either give up range or are > ridiculously expensive. There's also something about 9 speed looking > "right" to me on a Rivendell. > > My main concern is getting parts in the future. I helped out at my LBS > over the summer because they were so busy. This will most likely be another > busy year for bike shops. I think I'll order a handful of cassettes to tide > me over for a while. I hope that as manufacturers catch up with resupplying > parts they continue to make "outdated" 9, 8 and 7 speed stuff. There are > certainly a greater number of options for cassettes when going to 10 and > above. > > On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 1:39:29 PM UTC-6 lconley wrote: > >> Note that new Shimano 11-speed mountain cassettes fit on old 9-speed >> Shimano style hubs - the 11 speed is only 0.05mm wider than the 9-speed. I >> just put a 12-46 (I used a Shimano 12 tooth 1st position cog in place of >> the 11 tooth cog) 11-speed cassette on my old Phil Wood 9-speed touring hub >> for my Gus Boots Willsen. Fits beautifully - chain even clears the 29x2.5 >> tire by 4mm. The inner large cogs kind of cantilever over the hub flange >> >> Laing >> >> On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 2:12:51 PM UTC-5 Tim Baldwin wrote: >> >>> >>> I'm currently looking for 9 speed cassettes for my Atlantis. I'm hoping >>> to be able to do a tour this year after staying local in 2020. With touring >>> in mind, I'd like 12-36 but it seems those are rather hard to find right >>> now. I currently have 11-32, but I'm riding in flat Chicago. The 12-36 >>> would give me the same ratios for my normal riding but get rid of the 11t, >>> which I don't use, and would give me a 36t, which I foresee using on my >>> trip. With the VO 46/30 crank I'm using, this gives me a range of 21 to 100 >>> gear inches, which seems perfect to me. After seeing the high demand for >>> bike parts in 2020, what do Riv riders predict for future availability of 9 >>> speed parts? I found someone with a stash of 12-36 9 speed cassettes for >>> sale on ebay, do I stock up now? >>> >>> Also, how much does cassette price/quality make a difference? I've >>> mostly used cheaper cassettes but wondering if would make sense to go up to >>> 10 speed to take advantage of fancier cassettes. The cassette on ebay I >>> mentioned is Alivio so on the lower end of the spectrum. I'm using a >>> Suntour thumb shifter in friction so I think I could make 10 speed work. >>> However there's something about the ease of setup and maintenance of 9 >>> speed shifting that makes me want to stay in that world. >>> >>> Tim B in Chicago >>> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/80aa5d3a-6d20-4fe3-8d76-e4a493781739n%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: 9 Speed Cassette Availability
Steve, thanks for the links. I guess I meant hard to find in that I went to my LBS who did not have any in stock and could not find any currently available through distributors. I figure this low supply is due to the surge in sales last year but curious if it could be the beginning of the industry phasing out of 9 and lower speed parts moving forward. I'm fine ordering some things online (mostly through Riv or other small manufacturers that sell directly) but I do prefer supporting local shops. I could also swap chain rings but the crankset is new and my current cassette is older. Seems easier to swap the cassette. And I'm quite happy with the current steps in my gearing. Laing, I could fit 11 speed on my new wheel I'm building with a new model MI5 hub. I have used (and still have in my bin) a SRAM NX 11 speed cassette/derailleur before. I found the gear range lacking as it is 1x only. I also tried the Microshift Advent 9 speed. That one I did not like steps between gears as much. I guess after trying some of the newer stuff, I'm having trouble seeing the appeal. I can get the gear range I'm looking for with a 2x9. The 1x systems seem to either give up range or are ridiculously expensive. There's also something about 9 speed looking "right" to me on a Rivendell. My main concern is getting parts in the future. I helped out at my LBS over the summer because they were so busy. This will most likely be another busy year for bike shops. I think I'll order a handful of cassettes to tide me over for a while. I hope that as manufacturers catch up with resupplying parts they continue to make "outdated" 9, 8 and 7 speed stuff. There are certainly a greater number of options for cassettes when going to 10 and above. On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 1:39:29 PM UTC-6 lconley wrote: > Note that new Shimano 11-speed mountain cassettes fit on old 9-speed > Shimano style hubs - the 11 speed is only 0.05mm wider than the 9-speed. I > just put a 12-46 (I used a Shimano 12 tooth 1st position cog in place of > the 11 tooth cog) 11-speed cassette on my old Phil Wood 9-speed touring hub > for my Gus Boots Willsen. Fits beautifully - chain even clears the 29x2.5 > tire by 4mm. The inner large cogs kind of cantilever over the hub flange > > Laing > > On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 2:12:51 PM UTC-5 Tim Baldwin wrote: > >> >> I'm currently looking for 9 speed cassettes for my Atlantis. I'm hoping >> to be able to do a tour this year after staying local in 2020. With touring >> in mind, I'd like 12-36 but it seems those are rather hard to find right >> now. I currently have 11-32, but I'm riding in flat Chicago. The 12-36 >> would give me the same ratios for my normal riding but get rid of the 11t, >> which I don't use, and would give me a 36t, which I foresee using on my >> trip. With the VO 46/30 crank I'm using, this gives me a range of 21 to 100 >> gear inches, which seems perfect to me. After seeing the high demand for >> bike parts in 2020, what do Riv riders predict for future availability of 9 >> speed parts? I found someone with a stash of 12-36 9 speed cassettes for >> sale on ebay, do I stock up now? >> >> Also, how much does cassette price/quality make a difference? I've mostly >> used cheaper cassettes but wondering if would make sense to go up to 10 >> speed to take advantage of fancier cassettes. The cassette on ebay I >> mentioned is Alivio so on the lower end of the spectrum. I'm using a >> Suntour thumb shifter in friction so I think I could make 10 speed work. >> However there's something about the ease of setup and maintenance of 9 >> speed shifting that makes me want to stay in that world. >> >> Tim B in Chicago >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/4590347d-3d71-4ff5-8ae8-ddbbed0cceaan%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: 9 Speed Cassette Availability
Note that new Shimano 11-speed mountain cassettes fit on old 9-speed Shimano style hubs - the 11 speed is only 0.05mm wider than the 9-speed. I just put a 12-46 (I used a Shimano 12 tooth 1st position cog in place of the 11 tooth cog) 11-speed cassette on my old Phil Wood 9-speed touring hub for my Gus Boots Willsen. Fits beautifully - chain even clears the 29x2.5 tire by 4mm. The inner large cogs kind of cantilever over the hub flange Laing On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 2:12:51 PM UTC-5 Tim Baldwin wrote: > > I'm currently looking for 9 speed cassettes for my Atlantis. I'm hoping to > be able to do a tour this year after staying local in 2020. With touring in > mind, I'd like 12-36 but it seems those are rather hard to find right now. > I currently have 11-32, but I'm riding in flat Chicago. The 12-36 would > give me the same ratios for my normal riding but get rid of the 11t, which > I don't use, and would give me a 36t, which I foresee using on my trip. > With the VO 46/30 crank I'm using, this gives me a range of 21 to 100 gear > inches, which seems perfect to me. After seeing the high demand for bike > parts in 2020, what do Riv riders predict for future availability of 9 > speed parts? I found someone with a stash of 12-36 9 speed cassettes for > sale on ebay, do I stock up now? > > Also, how much does cassette price/quality make a difference? I've mostly > used cheaper cassettes but wondering if would make sense to go up to 10 > speed to take advantage of fancier cassettes. The cassette on ebay I > mentioned is Alivio so on the lower end of the spectrum. I'm using a > Suntour thumb shifter in friction so I think I could make 10 speed work. > However there's something about the ease of setup and maintenance of 9 > speed shifting that makes me want to stay in that world. > > Tim B in Chicago > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/4a5f7612-601e-40bf-b864-64e72df81744n%40googlegroups.com.
