Re: [RBW] Re: Campagnolo on a Sam/Homer?

[Tim Gavin]

I agree that a "130 OLD" crank with a "135 OLD" hub usually ends with a
chainline that is less than optimal.

I also agree that it isn't a show-stopper, just something to be aware of.
It's also something that can usually be mitigated with bottom bracket
spacers or just a different bottom bracket.

Most current disc road and cyclocross frames come with this mismatch from
the factory; chain rub comes free.  I think they just decided that the
narrower 10 and 11 speed chains mitigate the chainline difference, and just
called it good enough.
Specialized tried to address this with its proprietary (of course!) SCS
system.
http://southernwheelworks.com/2016/10/17/specialized-scs-wheels-issues-solutions/
It was technically correct, but was roundly criticized because it created a
special hub standard that inhibited wheel swaps.

But we aspire to "just right" for our "just ride", so I brought it up.

On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 5:16 AM, Garth  wrote:

> I don't own or use any modern Campy stuff, but I don't see why the Athena
> crank won't work. So it's "spec'd" for a 130mm rear , okay, so what ? That
> spec makes sense from Campy because their Athena hub is 130mm, it doesn't
> mean it is a limitation. I run a road double crank(42.5mm chainline) with a
> 135mm hub and if anything, I like the the slight difference in center
> chainline over the cogs. All that matters is that you are able to shift
> across the cassette and accurately. So you get some chain rub in say the
> big ring big cog or 2 combo, so what, those are severe angles anyways which
> I never use. Same with small/small combos. Basically my message is try it
> and have fun !
>
> Another example of exact chainline mythology is the XD crank, which is
> "spec'd" for a 45mm or 47.5mm chainline, depending on where and when you
> read it, I've seen both. A 113mm bb is "spec'd" for the XD triple, yet
> everyone knows it works just fine with a 107mm if your frame allows it, and
> some even use a 115mm. So it works with chainlines from 45 to 47.5mm plus.
> The differences in shifting being which cogs and be run in what rings. So
> there ya' go .
>
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[RBW] Re: Campagnolo on a Sam/Homer?

[Garth]

I don't own or use any modern Campy stuff, but I don't see why the Athena crank 
won't work. So it's "spec'd" for a 130mm rear , okay, so what ? That spec makes 
sense from Campy because their Athena hub is 130mm, it doesn't mean it is a 
limitation. I run a road double crank(42.5mm chainline) with a 135mm hub and if 
anything, I like the the slight difference in center chainline over the cogs. 
All that matters is that you are able to shift across the cassette and 
accurately. So you get some chain rub in say the big ring big cog or 2 combo, 
so what, those are severe angles anyways which I never use. Same with 
small/small combos. Basically my message is try it and have fun !  

Another example of exact chainline mythology is the XD crank, which is "spec'd" 
for a 45mm or 47.5mm chainline, depending on where and when you read it, I've 
seen both. A 113mm bb is "spec'd" for the XD triple, yet everyone knows it 
works just fine with a 107mm if your frame allows it, and some even use a 
115mm. So it works with chainlines from 45 to 47.5mm plus. The differences in 
shifting being which cogs and be run in what rings. So there ya' go . 

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[RBW] Re: Campagnolo on a Sam/Homer?

[Nick Payne]

Several years ago I modified a couple of Campagnolo Record rear hubs I had 
for 135mm spacing. Description here: 
http://www.users.on.net/~njpayne/bikestuff/campag135/








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[RBW] Re: Campagnolo on a Sam/Homer?

[Joe Bernard]

Adam, don't quote me on this 'cause I haven't searched to refresh my memory, 
but if it's a Veloce 10 group I think it'll shift a Shimano/SRAM 8 cassette. 
That'd be Campy on the super cheap!

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[RBW] Re: Campagnolo on a Sam/Homer?

[Adam Kilgas]

Thanks for all the help, guys!  My reason for asking is because I have a 
lightly used Veloce groupset.  I was kinda doubtful if the crankset would fit, 
too...thanks for the info on that.

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[RBW] Re: Campagnolo on a Sam/Homer?

[Nick Ybarra]

Or just squeeze the dropouts in a smidge, and suddenly, all 130mm hubs are 
possible.  I've been running my Sam this way for years w/no ill effects.

On Tuesday, November 14, 2017 at 9:31:44 AM UTC-6, Drivel wrote:
>
> Jtek shiftmates can also be an easy solution depending on the planned 
> build. 

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[RBW] Re: Campagnolo on a Sam/Homer?

[Garth]

Rebranding . that's like the Price is Right game ... "Let's see what's 
behind door number 3 , you have won a brand new . "

  Might be a Cadillac, might be Yugo  all the doors look the same on the 
outside ☺

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Re: [RBW] Re: Campagnolo on a Sam/Homer?

[Tim Gavin]

Correct.  All 11-speed cassettes are cross-compatible; SRAM, Campagnolo,
and Shimano all used the same cassette spacing when they went to 11-speed.

Also, Shimano 11-speed MTB cassettes fit on 10-speed freehubs (because the
largest cogs are dished).  So, you could use any 135 mm OLD 10-speed
freehub, a Shimano MTB 11-speed cassette, and Campagnolo 11-speed shifters
and derailleurs.

And Campagnolo Potenza 11-speed can fit a 32t cog, and comes in silver!


I haven't tried this combination myself, so I welcome the group to check my
math on this.


One catch: I think all Campagnolo cranksets are designed for 130 mm rear
spacing, so you may want to see if the crankset you choose can be fitted
with some spacers on the drive side.  Also, even though the Potenza
crankset comes in silver, it's still ugly (like a 4-armed shuriken).

On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 2:11 AM, Joe Bernard  wrote:

> I don't know what the situation is with mtb cassettes, but you can use
> Shimano or SRAM 11-speed road cassettes with Campy 11-drivetrains.
>
> http://fitwerx.com/campagnolo-shimano-and-sram-11-speed-
> wheel-compatiblity/
>
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[RBW] Re: Campagnolo on a Sam/Homer?

[Belopsky]

bitex hubs are rebranded for virtually every bike manufacturer. 

On Tuesday, November 14, 2017 at 6:30:17 AM UTC-5, Garth wrote:
>
> I would get the White Industries hub myself. For something as important as 
> a wheel, going cheap on any part of that wheel compromises the entire wheel 
> and it ends up costing more later. 
>
> Quality wheels are just as important as the frame. 
>

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[RBW] Re: Campagnolo on a Sam/Homer?

[Garth]

I would get the White Industries hub myself. For something as important as a 
wheel, going cheap on any part of that wheel compromises the entire wheel and 
it ends up costing more later. 

Quality wheels are just as important as the frame. 

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[RBW] Re: Campagnolo on a Sam/Homer?

[Belopsky]

http://bitexhubs.co.uk/product/rar12/

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[RBW] Re: Campagnolo on a Sam/Homer?

[Joe Bernard]

I don't know what the situation is with mtb cassettes, but you can use Shimano 
or SRAM 11-speed road cassettes with Campy 11-drivetrains. 

http://fitwerx.com/campagnolo-shimano-and-sram-11-speed-wheel-compatiblity/

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[RBW] Re: Campagnolo on a Sam/Homer?

[Bill Lindsay]

Hope is another one, but it is not <$100 as required.  Miche makes a ton of 
Campy compatible stuff, but I don't think ever made a 135mm rear hub.  
Wheels Manufacturing makes cassette cog spacers designed to re-space your 
Shimano/SRAM cassette on your cheap Shimano hub into Campy spacing.

Bill thats-all-I-have Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Monday, November 13, 2017 at 8:59:27 PM UTC-8, Adam Kilgas wrote:
>
> I'd put the White Industries hub up there in the "pricey" category as 
> well... The VO is better, but I suppose what I'm looking for is something 
> in the $100 range... You can find good quality Shimano/SRAM stuff all day 
> in that price range, but Campy is a whole 'nother level, it seems.

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[RBW] Re: Campagnolo on a Sam/Homer?

[Adam Kilgas]

I'd put the White Industries hub up there in the "pricey" category as well... 
The VO is better, but I suppose what I'm looking for is something in the $100 
range... You can find good quality Shimano/SRAM stuff all day in that price 
range, but Campy is a whole 'nother level, it seems.

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[RBW] Re: Campagnolo on a Sam/Homer?

[Bill Lindsay]

Velo-Orange Gran Cru
White Industries MI5

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Monday, November 13, 2017 at 8:28:57 PM UTC-8, Adam Kilgas wrote:
>
> So without going too spendy (Phil/Chris King, etc), I was wondering what 
> the options for running a Campy drivetrain on a 135mm rear spacing are? 
>  I've heard tell that Bitex offers their RAR12 with a 135mm axle and Campy 
> freewheel, but haven't been able to find it anywhere...
>
> Anyone know of any other hub options?
>

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