[RBW] Re: Driver: "I don't know bike language"

[Ryan Fleming]

And, Ron, your last point is very well-taken. Probably that's the best 
advice for all of us to stay safe out there

On Thursday, September 28, 2017 at 5:25:47 AM UTC-5, Ron Mc wrote:
>
>
> You can't control them, but you can control you and how you communicate 
> your presence and intentions to them.  
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Driver: "I don't know bike language"

[Ron Mc]

I give a thumbs-up when it's clear to pass - since I get to see first - if 
I see first and it's not clear to pass, I give an old-fashioned Slow 
signal.  
Been working for me for years in redneckville - ok, not quite so bad, but 
there are some mean drivers here, and I guess there are everywhere  
You can't control them, but you can control you and how you communicate 
your presence and intentions to them.  


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[RBW] Re: Driver: "I don't know bike language"

[lum gim fong]

I never direct a car when it is "all clear" to pass me. If something bad 
happened, I could not live with the guilt, and they/survivors might even hold 
me liable.

I just hold down my end of the bargain by riding predictably and obeying 
traffic laws in that situation and then I leave it up to the driver behind me 
to decide for his or herself when to pass. I can't make that decision for them.

As for hand signals, I use them pointing left arm fir left turn , right arm for 
right turn, left akimbo with hand down and palm back for stop. This is legal in 
Maryland.

I remember reading in a bike forum that a cyclist said he didn't see any 
traffic around him at an intersection but he chose to hand signal anyway. Right 
after that turn a driver pulled along side him and told him that his hand 
signal just saved his life.

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[RBW] Re: Driver: "I don't know bike language"

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I thought I was the only one who did that.  It works well for me, and I 
usually get the impression that the drivers behind me appreciate it.  I 
often get a little "thank you" wave as they pass.  I don't want to hold 
anyone up any more than they want to *be* held up, and if I can facilitate 
their safe passing then we're both happier about it.  

On Tuesday, September 26, 2017 at 9:00:56 PM UTC-4, Garth wrote:
>
> If I am coming to the top of blind crest on a 2 lane road I will gesture 
> with gusto a left hand out to "wait" directed outward , just like I'd do 
> with someone standing nearby. 
>
> If a car is behind me and they seem hesitant yo pass, I'll wait until it's 
> clear in both lanes and give a good rolling circular wave. People seem to 
> understand. I rather act like I'm directing traffic, no, I am directing it 
> and people seem to appreciate the communication with them as real people 
> just like me, not "things" that are competing with each other. 
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Driver: "I don't know bike language"

[Eric Norris]

As long as it’s not the right arm extended forward and upward ...

--Eric N
campyonly...@me.com
www.CampyOnly.com
Campyonlyguy.blogspot.com
@Campyonlyguy


> On Sep 27, 2017, at 12:19 PM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:
> 
> Actually, another really confusing thing is people tend to lean forward, and 
> that bent left arm isn't really pointed up at all, but rather pointed 
> forward.  So what's that supposed to mean? 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Driver: "I don't know bike language"

[Steve Palincsar]

On 09/27/2017 10:51 AM, Steven Sweedler wrote:
We have had this discussion on many rides. When we asked our local 
police chief who was riding with us, his response was "I know which 
one is legal"  When using your right arm to indicate a right turn your 
body can block the motorist from seeing it. If there is much traffic I 
like to use both. Steve


Alternating, I hope - with a lot of traffic it's really better to have 
at least one hand on the handlebars! :-)






On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 7:47 AM Eric Norris > wrote:


Amen, brother. The “point up to indicate left” signal is
non-intuitive and not nearly as clear as pointing left when you
are turning left.




This really puzzing.  It's left arm bent at the elbow pointed up to 
indicate /right/, and left arm straight out to the left to indicate 
left.   No wonder people get confused.  Actually, another really 
confusing thing is people tend to lean forward, and that bent left arm 
isn't really pointed up at all, but rather pointed forward.  So what's 
that supposed to mean?   It's far clearer to stick your left arm out to 
the left to indicate a left turn and stick your right arm out to the 
right to indicate a right turn.



--
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia
USA

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[RBW] Re: Driver: "I don't know bike language"

[Evan E.]

"When using your right arm to indicate a right turn, your body can block 
the motorist from seeing it."  < Yep!  I most often signal a right turn by 
extending my right arm and pointing to my right. But if a car is behind me 
and slightly to my left, then I also do the old-school 
raise-the-left-arm-bent-at-the-elbow signal. Someday I'll crash while 
trying to signal with both hands.

Glad you're OK, Deacon!

Evan
SF, CA

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[RBW] Re: Driver: "I don't know bike language"

[Ryan Fleming]

Agreed. I find since my accident last September, I've become even more 
conscientious about signalling , which of course, I did before but if I 
were honest I've   had some lapses from time to time.

Plus, if I can give a car a break, I will. BTW I've always extended my arm 
right or left and I also point straight ahead if I'm crossing an 
intersection and going straight to signal to those making a left turn  in 
front of me as well.

And I notice in Winnipeg , several  cyclists wear dark clothing and have no 
lights in low-light or darkness, which is suicidal IMO

On Tuesday, September 26, 2017 at 7:45:51 PM UTC-5, ascpgh wrote:
>
> Thanks to good grace you came through safely, Patrick. 
>
> This is the reason I signal right turns with my right arm and a pointed 
> finger. The collective driving population  (even with the finest students 
> of the esteemed institutions of renowned higher learning around here) is 
> virtually incompetent of hand signals as a baseline. Me pointing my left 
> arm upward with pointing finger has been greeted by passing traffic with 
> utter confusion. It's as if they get their DLs online. 
>
> Literal as possible with my hand and arm signals around here. At worst, I 
> take the lane to protect the uncomprehending behind me. 
>
> Andy Cheatham
> Pittsburgh
>
>
> On Tuesday, September 26, 2017 at 2:45:46 PM UTC-4, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>>
>> A friendly, though after dangerous circumstances, interaction with a 
>> driver, who attempted to pass me on a narrow blind curve despite me 
>> signaling with my left arm out and down, palm spread, then eventually 
>> waving in earnest because I could see the oncoming car, and they could not.
>>
>> Driver (as I heard him): “I didn’t know there was a bike lane.”
>> Me (waving and smiling because everyone was now safe from the driver’s 
>> stupidity): “This IS a bike lane."
>> Driver: “No. I said I don’t know bike language.”
>> Me (still waving and smiling, then giving a dumbfounded thumbs up): Oh.
>>
>> Thoughts:
>> — Drivers too moronic to not pass when they can’t see if it is clear are 
>> not likely to know “bike language."
>> — Taking the lane (riding where the right tire of the cars is) works. 
>> Thoughtful but stupid drivers give lots of room when they pass, though they 
>> fail to think through “I can’t see if there is oncoming traffic, therefore 
>> I ought not pass”. When I do not take the lane and instead ride as far to 
>> the right as I can (which I almost never do anymore), most drivers fail to 
>> see me any “fellow traffic” and only see me as obstacle on the side of the 
>> road, like road kill." 
>> — I take it hand signals are no longer taught as basic driving knowledge? 
>> Maybe they are relegated to being “bike language.” Sign.
>> — You can’t fix stupid, just stay as safe as possible by being visible, 
>> being seen as traffic, and making stupid go around you.
>>
>> Still haven’t puzzled out how to handle this any better.
>>
>> With abandon,
>> Patrick
>>
>> www.CredoFamily.org
>> www.MindYourHeadCoop.org
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Driver: "I don't know bike language"

[Elton Pope-Lance]

That was meant to read “impossible to mis-understand”?

I agree 100%.

Elton Pope-Lance
Vero Beach, FL: Where Riding is like swimming upstream.


> On Sep 27, 2017, at 10:46 AM, Eric Norris  wrote:
> 
> Amen, brother. The “point up to indicate left” signal is non-intuitive and 
> not nearly as clear as pointing left when you are turning left.
> 
> As Justin points out, the hand signals we learn in school (or at least used 
> to learn) were developed for motor vehicles. You can’t stick your right arm 
> out the passenger side window, so the “point up” signal was developed. The 
> problem with this is that you have to learn what the signal means. If you 
> don’t, it’s not clear at all what’s going on.
> 
> Pointing left to go left and pointing right to go right are almost impossible 
> to understand.
> 
> And yes, this is a pet peeve of mine.
> 
> --Eric N
> campyonly...@me.com 
> www.CampyOnly.com 
> Campyonlyguy.blogspot.com 
> @Campyonlyguy
> 
> 
>> On Sep 27, 2017, at 6:29 AM, Justin, Oakland > > wrote:
>> 
>> I too use the more “natural” signals to show turn directions. Our current 
>> “bike language” was developed for cars that initially lacked turn signals 
>> and had only the ability to hang the left arm out the window.
>> 
>> Glad you are safe and while I disagree that “you can’t fix stupid” I do 
>> agree that it’s better to focus on being safe than right. The 2000lb object 
>> beats even our heavy 25/50lb bikes every time. 
>> 
>> -Justin
>> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Driver: "I don't know bike language"

[Eric Norris]

>From the official California driver training handbook:

"Bicyclists may give right turn-signals with their right arm held straight out, 
pointing right."

So, yes, pointing right to go right is legal for cyclists (in CA at least).

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/pubs/hdbk/signaling 

--Eric N
campyonly...@me.com
www.CampyOnly.com
Campyonlyguy.blogspot.com
@Campyonlyguy


> On Sep 27, 2017, at 7:51 AM, Steven Sweedler  wrote:
> 
> We have had this discussion on many rides. When we asked our local police 
> chief who was riding with us, his response was "I know which one is legal"  
> When using your right arm to indicate a right turn your body can block the 
> motorist from seeing it. If there is much traffic I like to use both. Steve
> 
> On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 7:47 AM Eric Norris  > wrote:
> Amen, brother. The “point up to indicate left” signal is non-intuitive and 
> not nearly as clear as pointing left when you are turning left.
> 
> As Justin points out, the hand signals we learn in school (or at least used 
> to learn) were developed for motor vehicles. You can’t stick your right arm 
> out the passenger side window, so the “point up” signal was developed. The 
> problem with this is that you have to learn what the signal means. If you 
> don’t, it’s not clear at all what’s going on.
> 
> Pointing left to go left and pointing right to go right are almost impossible 
> to understand.
> 
> And yes, this is a pet peeve of mine.
> 
> --Eric N
> campyonly...@me.com 
> www.CampyOnly.com 
> Campyonlyguy.blogspot.com 
> @Campyonlyguy
> 
> 
>> On Sep 27, 2017, at 6:29 AM, Justin, Oakland > > wrote:
>> 
>> I too use the more “natural” signals to show turn directions. Our current 
>> “bike language” was developed for cars that initially lacked turn signals 
>> and had only the ability to hang the left arm out the window.
>> 
>> Glad you are safe and while I disagree that “you can’t fix stupid” I do 
>> agree that it’s better to focus on being safe than right. The 2000lb object 
>> beats even our heavy 25/50lb bikes every time. 
>> 
>> -Justin
>> 
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> 
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> Plymouth, New Hampshire
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Re: [RBW] Re: Driver: "I don't know bike language"

[Eric Norris]

Yes, “impossible to mis-understand,” unlike my email.

--Eric N
campyonly...@me.com
www.CampyOnly.com
Campyonlyguy.blogspot.com
@Campyonlyguy


> On Sep 27, 2017, at 7:51 AM, Elton Pope-Lance  wrote:
> 
> That was meant to read “impossible to mis-understand”?
> 
> I agree 100%.
> 
> Elton Pope-Lance
> Vero Beach, FL: Where Riding is like swimming upstream.
> 
> 
>> On Sep 27, 2017, at 10:46 AM, Eric Norris > > wrote:
>> 
>> Amen, brother. The “point up to indicate left” signal is non-intuitive and 
>> not nearly as clear as pointing left when you are turning left.
>> 
>> As Justin points out, the hand signals we learn in school (or at least used 
>> to learn) were developed for motor vehicles. You can’t stick your right arm 
>> out the passenger side window, so the “point up” signal was developed. The 
>> problem with this is that you have to learn what the signal means. If you 
>> don’t, it’s not clear at all what’s going on.
>> 
>> Pointing left to go left and pointing right to go right are almost 
>> impossible to understand.
>> 
>> And yes, this is a pet peeve of mine.
>> 
>> --Eric N
>> campyonly...@me.com 
>> www.CampyOnly.com 
>> Campyonlyguy.blogspot.com 
>> @Campyonlyguy
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sep 27, 2017, at 6:29 AM, Justin, Oakland >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> I too use the more “natural” signals to show turn directions. Our current 
>>> “bike language” was developed for cars that initially lacked turn signals 
>>> and had only the ability to hang the left arm out the window.
>>> 
>>> Glad you are safe and while I disagree that “you can’t fix stupid” I do 
>>> agree that it’s better to focus on being safe than right. The 2000lb object 
>>> beats even our heavy 25/50lb bikes every time. 
>>> 
>>> -Justin
>>> 
>>> -- 
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>> 
>> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Driver: "I don't know bike language"

[Steven Sweedler]

We have had this discussion on many rides. When we asked our local police
chief who was riding with us, his response was "I know which one is legal"
 When using your right arm to indicate a right turn your body can block the
motorist from seeing it. If there is much traffic I like to use both. Steve

On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 7:47 AM Eric Norris  wrote:

> Amen, brother. The “point up to indicate left” signal is non-intuitive and
> not nearly as clear as pointing left when you are turning left.
>
> As Justin points out, the hand signals we learn in school (or at least
> used to learn) were developed for motor vehicles. You can’t stick your
> right arm out the passenger side window, so the “point up” signal was
> developed. The problem with this is that you have to learn what the signal
> means. If you don’t, it’s not clear at all what’s going on.
>
> Pointing left to go left and pointing right to go right are almost
> impossible to understand.
>
> And yes, this is a pet peeve of mine.
>
> --Eric N
> campyonly...@me.com
> www.CampyOnly.com
> Campyonlyguy.blogspot.com
> @Campyonlyguy
>
>
> On Sep 27, 2017, at 6:29 AM, Justin, Oakland 
> wrote:
>
> I too use the more “natural” signals to show turn directions. Our current
> “bike language” was developed for cars that initially lacked turn signals
> and had only the ability to hang the left arm out the window.
>
> Glad you are safe and while I disagree that “you can’t fix stupid” I do
> agree that it’s better to focus on being safe than right. The 2000lb object
> beats even our heavy 25/50lb bikes every time.
>
> -Justin
>
> --
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>
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-- 
Steven Sweedler
Plymouth, New Hampshire

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Re: [RBW] Re: Driver: "I don't know bike language"

[Eric Norris]

Amen, brother. The “point up to indicate left” signal is non-intuitive and not 
nearly as clear as pointing left when you are turning left.

As Justin points out, the hand signals we learn in school (or at least used to 
learn) were developed for motor vehicles. You can’t stick your right arm out 
the passenger side window, so the “point up” signal was developed. The problem 
with this is that you have to learn what the signal means. If you don’t, it’s 
not clear at all what’s going on.

Pointing left to go left and pointing right to go right are almost impossible 
to understand.

And yes, this is a pet peeve of mine.

--Eric N
campyonly...@me.com
www.CampyOnly.com
Campyonlyguy.blogspot.com
@Campyonlyguy


> On Sep 27, 2017, at 6:29 AM, Justin, Oakland  wrote:
> 
> I too use the more “natural” signals to show turn directions. Our current 
> “bike language” was developed for cars that initially lacked turn signals and 
> had only the ability to hang the left arm out the window.
> 
> Glad you are safe and while I disagree that “you can’t fix stupid” I do agree 
> that it’s better to focus on being safe than right. The 2000lb object beats 
> even our heavy 25/50lb bikes every time. 
> 
> -Justin
> 
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[RBW] Re: Driver: "I don't know bike language"

[Justin, Oakland]

I too use the more “natural” signals to show turn directions. Our current “bike 
language” was developed for cars that initially lacked turn signals and had 
only the ability to hang the left arm out the window.

Glad you are safe and while I disagree that “you can’t fix stupid” I do agree 
that it’s better to focus on being safe than right. The 2000lb object beats 
even our heavy 25/50lb bikes every time. 

-Justin

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[RBW] Re: Driver: "I don't know bike language"

[lum gim fong]

This is why there should be a shoulder on every road.

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[RBW] Re: Driver: "I don't know bike language"

[Ron Mc]

ps - if you're building a queue of cars behind you, find a place to get off 
the road and let them pass.  By queuing up traffic, you're only increasing 
your chances of being hit by one driver making a bad choice.  

On Wednesday, September 27, 2017 at 5:26:32 AM UTC-5, Ron Mc wrote:
>
> If the road is blind in front of you, command the lane. If the driver 
> tries to pass you on the blind and discovers oncoming traffic, he will 
> choose to hit you rather than the oncoming car.  
> When you command the lane, you force him to pass you only when he can 
> command the other lane.  
> Since I ride a lot of hills and twisty bits, I get a lot of practice at 
> this.  
> Good lighting improves your authority on the road.  
>

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[RBW] Re: Driver: "I don't know bike language"

[Ron Mc]

If the road is blind in front of you, command the lane. If the driver tries 
to pass you on the blind and discovers oncoming traffic, he will choose to 
hit you rather than the oncoming car.  
When you command the lane, you force him to pass you only when he can 
command the other lane.  
Since I ride a lot of hills and twisty bits, I get a lot of practice at 
this.  
Good lighting improves your authority on the road.  

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[RBW] Re: Driver: "I don't know bike language"

[Garth]

To me the only language that's any good is universal language. Like Ann, I 
point at the direction I am going, 
I ditched the textbook stuff long ago as I don't assume everyone knows what 
that is. If I am coming to the top of blind crest on a 2 lane road I will 
gesture with gusto a left hand out to "wait" directed outward , just like I'd 
do with someone standing nearby. 

If a car is behind me and they seem hesitant yo pass, I'll wait until it's 
clear in both lanes and give a good rolling circular wave. People seem to 
understand. I rather act like I'm directing traffic, no, I am directing it and 
people seem to appreciate the communication with them as real people just like 
me, not "things" that are competing with each other. 

Sure, there a few "characters" along the way but none are out to get anyone, 
they're just on their way like me. There is the mumbler guy, who as he 
approaches with his window open mumbles something about riding in the other 
lane towards traffic. Then there is the honker who toots his horn about 5 times 
as he comes up behind me, he never looks back, just completely stoic. Then 
there is great retired couple who always wave and give a toot to say hi. 
Finally is the yell with the window closed guy, who's face of angst while 
yelling from the passenger side still cracks me up laughing just   thinking 
about it. The only one who heard it was the driver ! He looked like fish trying 
to yell out of fishbowl. 

Yeah, people are just people everywhere. Everyone is communicating they are 
that they are. 

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[RBW] Re: Driver: "I don't know bike language"

[ascpgh]

Thanks to good grace you came through safely, Patrick. 

This is the reason I signal right turns with my right arm and a pointed 
finger. The collective driving population  (even with the finest students 
of the esteemed institutions of renowned higher learning around here) is 
virtually incompetent of hand signals as a baseline. Me pointing my left 
arm upward with pointing finger has been greeted by passing traffic with 
utter confusion. It's as if they get their DLs online. 

Literal as possible with my hand and arm signals around here. At worst, I 
take the lane to protect the uncomprehending behind me. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh


On Tuesday, September 26, 2017 at 2:45:46 PM UTC-4, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> A friendly, though after dangerous circumstances, interaction with a 
> driver, who attempted to pass me on a narrow blind curve despite me 
> signaling with my left arm out and down, palm spread, then eventually 
> waving in earnest because I could see the oncoming car, and they could not.
>
> Driver (as I heard him): “I didn’t know there was a bike lane.”
> Me (waving and smiling because everyone was now safe from the driver’s 
> stupidity): “This IS a bike lane."
> Driver: “No. I said I don’t know bike language.”
> Me (still waving and smiling, then giving a dumbfounded thumbs up): Oh.
>
> Thoughts:
> — Drivers too moronic to not pass when they can’t see if it is clear are 
> not likely to know “bike language."
> — Taking the lane (riding where the right tire of the cars is) works. 
> Thoughtful but stupid drivers give lots of room when they pass, though they 
> fail to think through “I can’t see if there is oncoming traffic, therefore 
> I ought not pass”. When I do not take the lane and instead ride as far to 
> the right as I can (which I almost never do anymore), most drivers fail to 
> see me any “fellow traffic” and only see me as obstacle on the side of the 
> road, like road kill." 
> — I take it hand signals are no longer taught as basic driving knowledge? 
> Maybe they are relegated to being “bike language.” Sign.
> — You can’t fix stupid, just stay as safe as possible by being visible, 
> being seen as traffic, and making stupid go around you.
>
> Still haven’t puzzled out how to handle this any better.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> www.CredoFamily.org
> www.MindYourHeadCoop.org
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Driver: "I don't know bike language"

['Ann L' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I'm glad you are ok.  I just relocated to this region (Mississippi) which 
is not bike friendly.  

I always assume:

1) The car drivers don't see me.  They don't look for cyclists or 
pedestrians.  A pedestrian in a crosswalk is as novel as a Panda bear to 
them.
2)  Always use the pedestrian assist cross walk for intersections and 
remember rule 1.  Watch to make sure the cars are actually stopping and not 
running red lights.
3)  The car drivers don't understand cycling signals so I point to the 
direction I am turning and remember rule 1.
4)  Stick to sidewalks and the beach boardwalk (which is awesome) and 
always remember rule 1 when crossing intersections.
5) Pray when interacting with traffic.


>

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[RBW] Re: Driver: "I don't know bike language"

[Ryan Fleming]

Sometimes people  should just detach from their friggin devices and pay  a 
little attention to the real world around them. 

On Tuesday, September 26, 2017 at 3:08:12 PM UTC-5, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> I've taken the opposite approach. I figure once the moron's adrenaline 
> settles from seeing oncoming traffic stop for them "out of nowhere" that 
> some self reflection will happen. Hopefully I'm not overestimating people, 
> but yelling just triggers my adrenaline and encourages them to be mad at me 
> rather than looking at themselves a few hours from now. Grin.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> On Tuesday, September 26, 2017 at 12:45:46 PM UTC-6, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>>
>> A friendly, though after dangerous circumstances, interaction with a 
>> driver, who attempted to pass me on a narrow blind curve despite me 
>> signaling with my left arm out and down, palm spread, then eventually 
>> waving in earnest because I could see the oncoming car, and they could not.
>>
>> Driver (as I heard him): “I didn’t know there was a bike lane.”
>> Me (waving and smiling because everyone was now safe from the driver’s 
>> stupidity): “This IS a bike lane."
>> Driver: “No. I said I don’t know bike language.”
>> Me (still waving and smiling, then giving a dumbfounded thumbs up): Oh.
>>
>> Thoughts:
>> — Drivers too moronic to not pass when they can’t see if it is clear are 
>> not likely to know “bike language."
>> — Taking the lane (riding where the right tire of the cars is) works. 
>> Thoughtful but stupid drivers give lots of room when they pass, though they 
>> fail to think through “I can’t see if there is oncoming traffic, therefore 
>> I ought not pass”. When I do not take the lane and instead ride as far to 
>> the right as I can (which I almost never do anymore), most drivers fail to 
>> see me any “fellow traffic” and only see me as obstacle on the side of the 
>> road, like road kill." 
>> — I take it hand signals are no longer taught as basic driving knowledge? 
>> Maybe they are relegated to being “bike language.” Sign.
>> — You can’t fix stupid, just stay as safe as possible by being visible, 
>> being seen as traffic, and making stupid go around you.
>>
>> Still haven’t puzzled out how to handle this any better.
>>
>> With abandon,
>> Patrick
>>
>> www.CredoFamily.org
>> www.MindYourHeadCoop.org
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Driver: "I don't know bike language"

[Deacon Patrick]

I've taken the opposite approach. I figure once the moron's adrenaline 
settles from seeing oncoming traffic stop for them "out of nowhere" that 
some self reflection will happen. Hopefully I'm not overestimating people, 
but yelling just triggers my adrenaline and encourages them to be mad at me 
rather than looking at themselves a few hours from now. Grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Tuesday, September 26, 2017 at 12:45:46 PM UTC-6, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> A friendly, though after dangerous circumstances, interaction with a 
> driver, who attempted to pass me on a narrow blind curve despite me 
> signaling with my left arm out and down, palm spread, then eventually 
> waving in earnest because I could see the oncoming car, and they could not.
>
> Driver (as I heard him): “I didn’t know there was a bike lane.”
> Me (waving and smiling because everyone was now safe from the driver’s 
> stupidity): “This IS a bike lane."
> Driver: “No. I said I don’t know bike language.”
> Me (still waving and smiling, then giving a dumbfounded thumbs up): Oh.
>
> Thoughts:
> — Drivers too moronic to not pass when they can’t see if it is clear are 
> not likely to know “bike language."
> — Taking the lane (riding where the right tire of the cars is) works. 
> Thoughtful but stupid drivers give lots of room when they pass, though they 
> fail to think through “I can’t see if there is oncoming traffic, therefore 
> I ought not pass”. When I do not take the lane and instead ride as far to 
> the right as I can (which I almost never do anymore), most drivers fail to 
> see me any “fellow traffic” and only see me as obstacle on the side of the 
> road, like road kill." 
> — I take it hand signals are no longer taught as basic driving knowledge? 
> Maybe they are relegated to being “bike language.” Sign.
> — You can’t fix stupid, just stay as safe as possible by being visible, 
> being seen as traffic, and making stupid go around you.
>
> Still haven’t puzzled out how to handle this any better.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> www.CredoFamily.org
> www.MindYourHeadCoop.org
>
>
>

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