[RBW] Re: Experiences with Clem L or H

[Nancy Seibel]

Nice to hear this, Jay!

On Saturday, February 17, 2018 at 10:34:06 PM UTC-5, Jay Connolly wrote:
>
> I use my big Clem L (64cm) as a run-around bike for very local errands. I 
> absolutely love the bike. It's a joy to ride.
>
> Jay
>
> On Saturday, February 10, 2018 at 2:56:42 PM UTC-8, Nancy Seibel wrote:
>>
>> Hi, there, I'm seriously thinking of buying a Clem L (I know...that's how 
>> it starts) and wanted to hear from those of you have ridden this bike. What 
>> do you like about it? Any dislikes? How is it on hilly routes? What about 
>> long rides - defined as 30-60+ miles?
>>
>> I test rode one for a short spin around town and loved it. But would I 
>> Iove it in hilly Baltimore County MD, on a century or out for a multi-day 
>> tour?
>>
>> Thanks in advance for your comments!
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Experiences with Clem L or H

[Jay Connolly]

I use my big Clem L (64cm) as a run-around bike for very local errands. I 
absolutely love the bike. It's a joy to ride.

Jay

On Saturday, February 10, 2018 at 2:56:42 PM UTC-8, Nancy Seibel wrote:
>
> Hi, there, I'm seriously thinking of buying a Clem L (I know...that's how 
> it starts) and wanted to hear from those of you have ridden this bike. What 
> do you like about it? Any dislikes? How is it on hilly routes? What about 
> long rides - defined as 30-60+ miles?
>
> I test rode one for a short spin around town and loved it. But would I 
> Iove it in hilly Baltimore County MD, on a century or out for a multi-day 
> tour?
>
> Thanks in advance for your comments!
>

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[RBW] Re: Experiences with Clem L or H

[Joe Bernard]

Masmojo: That's probably a good point to make about the H model, too. My first 
Clem was a small H , and it was way-more-much stiffer than the 52 L. I don't 
consider the bit of flex in the L to be a deal breaker, but it's worth noting 
the difference the H toptube makes in the ride. 

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[RBW] Re: Experiences with Clem L or H

[masmojo]

One additional sort of comment; in addition to my medium I also have a small 
that I bought for the family units. While I like the feel of the larger bike, 
the small one is not nearly as flexy and there are some aspects of it 
(performance wise) I like better. 

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[RBW] Re: Experiences with Clem L or H

[Doug H.]

To chime in needlessly I will say that I just bought a Clem H and my 
experience thus far is mixed. I have read Zed Martinez' review and I too am 
not taking to the Bosco bars as of yet. I say that with the caveat that I 
haven't ridden it much yet and hope I will grow to like the Bosco 
experience as did Zed. But, the bike is a beauty and so comfortable on the 
road and in the grass. It's also my first go with thumb shifters and I 
haven't found the ideal spot for them...recommendations welcomed. 
Doug in Athens

On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 4:21:02 PM UTC-5, Nancy Seibel wrote:
>
> Correct, Mark! 
>
> On Tuesday, February 13, 2018 at 3:23:17 PM UTC-5, Mark in Beacon wrote:
>>
>> $1,300. Crazy deal. But too big for Nancy.
>>
>> On Tuesday, February 13, 2018 at 12:17:55 PM UTC-5, Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
>>> Grant's Bike Of The Week Clem L is $1500 now. I can't believe no one's 
>>> snapped it up yet. 
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Experiences with Clem L or H

[Nancy Seibel]

Correct, Mark! 

On Tuesday, February 13, 2018 at 3:23:17 PM UTC-5, Mark in Beacon wrote:
>
> $1,300. Crazy deal. But too big for Nancy.
>
> On Tuesday, February 13, 2018 at 12:17:55 PM UTC-5, Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>> Grant's Bike Of The Week Clem L is $1500 now. I can't believe no one's 
>> snapped it up yet. 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Experiences with Clem L or H

[Nancy Seibel]

I'm sure someone will! The ones I see on sale are the bigger frames. :)

On Tuesday, February 13, 2018 at 12:17:55 PM UTC-5, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> Grant's Bike Of The Week Clem L is $1500 now. I can't believe no one's 
> snapped it up yet. 

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[RBW] Re: Experiences with Clem L or H

[Nancy Seibel]

Thanks, Jonathan, for the feedback. Appreciate it.

On Tuesday, February 13, 2018 at 9:22:26 AM UTC-5, Jonathan D. wrote:
>
> I think the Clem L is a unique bike that could easily be taken long 
> distances. My wife has one and loves it. If you can test ride the bike it 
> might also be worth trying a Sam Hillborne. The Sam might be better for 
> 100K rides but both are great bikes. 

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[RBW] Re: Experiences with Clem L or H

[Nancy Seibel]

Thanks, Ash!


On Tuesday, February 13, 2018 at 1:39:51 AM UTC-5, Ash wrote:
>
> I have a 2017 Appaloosa.  Clem L and Appa are similar bikes, IMO.  Based 
> on my experience, I would say it quite suitable for 60-mile rides.  It 
> would NOT be a good choice if speed is what you are going for.  Very good 
> choice if enjoying the scenery, being able to carry some stuff for the trip 
> with ease and comfort are what you want.  
>   
> I only started biking 2-3 years ago.  My biking muscles are not all that 
> trained.  Still, a 52 mile trip that involved 2800 ft climbing did not feel 
> too hard on Appaloosa. It was 95+ degrees that day.  I had carried at least 
> 20 lbs cargo including extra water bottles.  Looking back, I wouldn't even 
> attempt a trip like that on any of the road bikes I had owned before.  It 
> might take an hour less.  But I know those bikes won't be comfortable 
> enough to get much enjoyment out of the ride.  Last summer I also biked Mt 
> Diablo (close 3k ft climb, I think) on Appa.
>
> It did take some trial and error with handlebars, stem length/height 
> adjustments and saddles   before it became fully comfortable for long 
> rides.  (which is probably the case with any bike).
>
> During the winter I have made more tweaks to improve ergonomics (mostly to 
> the cockpit).  Now I feel like I can enjoyably ride it all day (at my pace) 
> for multiple days.  Looking forward to at lease one such ride this summer.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ash
>
>
>
> On Saturday, 10 February 2018 14:56:42 UTC-8, Nancy Seibel wrote:
>>
>> Hi, there, I'm seriously thinking of buying a Clem L (I know...that's how 
>> it starts) and wanted to hear from those of you have ridden this bike. What 
>> do you like about it? Any dislikes? How is it on hilly routes? What about 
>> long rides - defined as 30-60+ miles?
>>
>> I test rode one for a short spin around town and loved it. But would I 
>> Iove it in hilly Baltimore County MD, on a century or out for a multi-day 
>> tour?
>>
>> Thanks in advance for your comments!
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Experiences with Clem L or H

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

$1,300. Crazy deal. But too big for Nancy.

On Tuesday, February 13, 2018 at 12:17:55 PM UTC-5, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> Grant's Bike Of The Week Clem L is $1500 now. I can't believe no one's 
> snapped it up yet. 

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[RBW] Re: Experiences with Clem L or H

[Joe Bernard]

Grant's Bike Of The Week Clem L is $1500 now. I can't believe no one's snapped 
it up yet. 

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[RBW] Re: Experiences with Clem L or H

[Jonathan D.]

I think the Clem L is a unique bike that could easily be taken long distances. 
My wife has one and loves it. If you can test ride the bike it might also be 
worth trying a Sam Hillborne. The Sam might be better for 100K rides but both 
are great bikes. 

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[RBW] Re: Experiences with Clem L or H

[Ash]

I have a 2017 Appaloosa.  Clem L and Appa are similar bikes, IMO.  Based on 
my experience, I would say it quite suitable for 60-mile rides.  It would 
NOT be a good choice if speed is what you are going for.  Very good choice 
if enjoying the scenery, being able to carry some stuff for the trip with 
ease and comfort are what you want.  
  
I only started biking 2-3 years ago.  My biking muscles are not all that 
trained.  Still, a 52 mile trip that involved 2800 ft climbing did not feel 
too hard on Appaloosa. It was 95+ degrees that day.  I had carried at least 
20 lbs cargo including extra water bottles.  Looking back, I wouldn't even 
attempt a trip like that on any of the road bikes I had owned before.  It 
might take an hour less.  But I know those bikes won't be comfortable 
enough to get much enjoyment out of the ride.  Last summer I also biked Mt 
Diablo (close 3k ft climb, I think) on Appa.

It did take some trial and error with handlebars, stem length/height 
adjustments and saddles   before it became fully comfortable for long 
rides.  (which is probably the case with any bike).

During the winter I have made more tweaks to improve ergonomics (mostly to 
the cockpit).  Now I feel like I can enjoyably ride it all day (at my pace) 
for multiple days.  Looking forward to at lease one such ride this summer.

Cheers,

Ash



On Saturday, 10 February 2018 14:56:42 UTC-8, Nancy Seibel wrote:
>
> Hi, there, I'm seriously thinking of buying a Clem L (I know...that's how 
> it starts) and wanted to hear from those of you have ridden this bike. What 
> do you like about it? Any dislikes? How is it on hilly routes? What about 
> long rides - defined as 30-60+ miles?
>
> I test rode one for a short spin around town and loved it. But would I 
> Iove it in hilly Baltimore County MD, on a century or out for a multi-day 
> tour?
>
> Thanks in advance for your comments!
>

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[RBW] Re: Experiences with Clem L or H

[Nancy Seibel]

Thanks Mark - I enjoyed the review and it's good additional input.

On Monday, February 12, 2018 at 6:06:35 PM UTC-5, Mark in Beacon wrote:
>
>
> A review from Velouria at Lovely Bicycle included this paragraph:
>
> *In both aesthetics and feel the Clementine reminds me most of a certain 
> type of German and Austrian utility bike that had been around for decades 
> through maybe the early 1990s. While clunky in stature and most commonly 
> used as city bikes, these types of bicycles were also surprisingly good 
> over long distances and over unpaved terrain. They were not designed for 
> sport, but for casual - yet, potentially endless - cycling. It is the idea 
> of precisely this kind of cycling that first attracted me to bicycles.*
>
> And another salient paragraph:
> *The Rivendell Clementine is not a performance bicycle. It does not 
> achieve its ease of travel by means of light tubing, aggressive 
> positioning, or racy handling. In fact, it is a rather massive, and 
> obscenely relaxed machine. Riding it down the road, I feel remarkably at 
> ease. I want to be wearing dresses, fluttery clothing, flimsy footwear - 
> and often I do. I want to meander endlessly. Yet despite this, the bike 
> eats up miles. And I am left with the impression of getting to my 
> destination quickly, without that tedious feel that long milage often 
> begins to take on for me, when riding an upright bike.*
>
> This was not what she considered a full on review, but IIRC, her initial 
> impressions stuck. It is very similar to what I wrote about my experience 
> with the bicycle. I also left several comments on this post at Lovely 
> Bicycle (under the name "M"--my google id and the result of hitting the 
> button before my profile was complete.)Fundamentally, it can do whatever 
> you ask of it. I think it comes down to, what your attitude is about the 
> rides you want to do with it. Of course you can get a sportier bike to 
> ride--and you already have that. The Clementine is a perfect second 
> bicycle. It can do everything your current bike can, plus a ton more. I 
> wish Rivendell still had the Clem brochure pdf up on the website.
>
> Full review here:
>
>
> http://lovelybike.blogspot.com/2016/09/clementine-belated-befuddled-bedazzled.html
>   
> 
>
>
>
> 
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Experiences with Clem L or H

[Nancy Seibel]

Good points, Tom and true, I have found among different bikes I own/have 
owned, minimal differences in my speed, though noticeable differences in 
what I can lift and maneuver readily when that has to be done. I too would 
say failings in regards to riding are generally my own, not the bike's! :). 
Would love to know how you fare with the Clem in Baltimore County! 

On Monday, February 12, 2018 at 3:20:59 PM UTC-5, Tom Horton wrote:
>
> hi nancy, I've ridden those hilly baltimore valleys a good deal, on a 
> custom titanium serotta and on a fendered, touring racked big (68cm) 
> atlantis, and the difference isn't as much as you'd think. last year we 
> encountered some hills in quebec that were defeating my sixtyish band of 
> cyclists and we took our bags off and stashed them in the woods, shedding 
> maybe 15-20 pounds; and again it just didn't help that much. my point I 
> guess is that weight doesn't matter as much as we think. just got a 64 cm 
> clem L and maybe in next month or two I can report how that manages in 
> baltimore county. strongly suspect any failings will be the rider, not the 
> clem.  tom horton
>
> On Saturday, February 10, 2018 at 5:56:42 PM UTC-5, Nancy Seibel wrote:
>>
>> Hi, there, I'm seriously thinking of buying a Clem L (I know...that's how 
>> it starts) and wanted to hear from those of you have ridden this bike. What 
>> do you like about it? Any dislikes? How is it on hilly routes? What about 
>> long rides - defined as 30-60+ miles?
>>
>> I test rode one for a short spin around town and loved it. But would I 
>> Iove it in hilly Baltimore County MD, on a century or out for a multi-day 
>> tour?
>>
>> Thanks in advance for your comments!
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Experiences with Clem L or H

[Nancy Seibel]

Thanks for these thoughts! 


On Monday, February 12, 2018 at 10:21:38 AM UTC-5, masmojo wrote:
>
> I think I have to agree with Joe, I have a Clementine  (Clem L) & I have 
> never had a problem riding it whatever distance, BUT would it be a suitable 
> choice for 100 miles or multi day ride!? No, I  don't think so. Sure you 
> could do it & if you had one; I wouldn't discourage you from trying; now on 
> the other hand if you were buying a new bike just for such a purpose then 
> I'd suggest to the Joe Appaloosa. The Clem is heavy & big and under my 
> 240lbs pretty flexy. I love it for going to the grocery store or slow 
> meandering. 
> It climbs OK, but you definitely feel the heft of it; on the other hand my 
> Atlantis makes light of any sort of uphill & makes climbing hills as close 
> to fun as is possible I guess. 
> The difference in speed is really negligible, but noticeable. Example on 
> my 14mile commute home from work I might average 10.9mph on the Atlantis, 
> but only 10.4 on the Clementine, but over 14 miles it adds up! No problem 
> if you are not in a hurry, but when it's really cold or Hot outside, its 
> nice to be able to trim the time if necessary.

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[RBW] Re: Experiences with Clem L or H

[Howard Hatten]

Nancy
I think this link will take you to the brochure Mark was referring to. 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/136422809@N08/shares/aH750i

Howard
Livonia Mi

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[RBW] Re: Experiences with Clem L or H

[Howard Hatten]

CLEM BROCHURE newest.pdf

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[RBW] Re: Experiences with Clem L or H

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

A review from Velouria at Lovely Bicycle included this paragraph:

*In both aesthetics and feel the Clementine reminds me most of a certain 
type of German and Austrian utility bike that had been around for decades 
through maybe the early 1990s. While clunky in stature and most commonly 
used as city bikes, these types of bicycles were also surprisingly good 
over long distances and over unpaved terrain. They were not designed for 
sport, but for casual - yet, potentially endless - cycling. It is the idea 
of precisely this kind of cycling that first attracted me to bicycles.*

And another salient paragraph:
*The Rivendell Clementine is not a performance bicycle. It does not achieve 
its ease of travel by means of light tubing, aggressive positioning, or 
racy handling. In fact, it is a rather massive, and obscenely relaxed 
machine. Riding it down the road, I feel remarkably at ease. I want to be 
wearing dresses, fluttery clothing, flimsy footwear - and often I do. I 
want to meander endlessly. Yet despite this, the bike eats up miles. And I 
am left with the impression of getting to my destination quickly, without 
that tedious feel that long milage often begins to take on for me, when 
riding an upright bike.*

This was not what she considered a full on review, but IIRC, her initial 
impressions stuck. It is very similar to what I wrote about my experience 
with the bicycle. I also left several comments on this post at Lovely 
Bicycle (under the name "M"--my google id and the result of hitting the 
button before my profile was complete.)Fundamentally, it can do whatever 
you ask of it. I think it comes down to, what your attitude is about the 
rides you want to do with it. Of course you can get a sportier bike to 
ride--and you already have that. The Clementine is a perfect second 
bicycle. It can do everything your current bike can, plus a ton more. I 
wish Rivendell still had the Clem brochure pdf up on the website.

Full review here:

http://lovelybike.blogspot.com/2016/09/clementine-belated-befuddled-bedazzled.html
  




>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Experiences with Clem L or H

[Tom Horton]

hi nancy, I've ridden those hilly baltimore valleys a good deal, on a 
custom titanium serotta and on a fendered, touring racked big (68cm) 
atlantis, and the difference isn't as much as you'd think. last year we 
encountered some hills in quebec that were defeating my sixtyish band of 
cyclists and we took our bags off and stashed them in the woods, shedding 
maybe 15-20 pounds; and again it just didn't help that much. my point I 
guess is that weight doesn't matter as much as we think. just got a 64 cm 
clem L and maybe in next month or two I can report how that manages in 
baltimore county. strongly suspect any failings will be the rider, not the 
clem.  tom horton

On Saturday, February 10, 2018 at 5:56:42 PM UTC-5, Nancy Seibel wrote:
>
> Hi, there, I'm seriously thinking of buying a Clem L (I know...that's how 
> it starts) and wanted to hear from those of you have ridden this bike. What 
> do you like about it? Any dislikes? How is it on hilly routes? What about 
> long rides - defined as 30-60+ miles?
>
> I test rode one for a short spin around town and loved it. But would I 
> Iove it in hilly Baltimore County MD, on a century or out for a multi-day 
> tour?
>
> Thanks in advance for your comments!
>

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[RBW] Re: Experiences with Clem L or H

[Nancy Seibel]

Thanks, Patrick! This is helpful.

On Sunday, February 11, 2018 at 12:29:54 PM UTC-5, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> Hey Joe. I’m unsure to whom you are responding, but in the event it is me 
> and my suggestion to be sure and talk with Grant and Co. at Rivendell, I 
> may not have been as clear as I could have been. I did not mean to imply 
> she shouldn’t ask here. I was celebrating my own experience (and from what 
> I’ve seen here, many of our expereinces) in the reality that Rivendell 
> customer care is very different from many places one might go to buy a 
> bike. Rivendell will guide you to a bike to match what you are looking for, 
> without upselling, or shoving you into something that isn’t right for you 
> just because it’s what they offer. 
>
> Nancy, it’s well worth pointing out that Rivendell bikes have a very large 
> range of what they can do and do well. I own two, a Hunqapillar (focus: off 
> road, bikepacking, hauling, touring) on one end of the spectrum, and a 
> Quickbeam (focus: singlespeed go fast country bike). I’ve done century 
> rides in the mountains on both. My personal suggestion is get the 
> Clementine. You’ll love it and learn a lot. If that leads to you wanting a 
> go fast Rivendell — well, there are far worse problems to have! Grin. 
>
> With abandon, 
> Patrick

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[RBW] Re: Experiences with Clem L or H

[Nancy Seibel]

This is very helpful. Thank you. I really appreciate hearing the pros as 
well as any cautions about what the Clem L is less well suited for.


On Sunday, February 11, 2018 at 11:03:33 AM UTC-5, Valerie Yates wrote:
>
> I didn't mean to delete my last message. It looked like it was posted 
> twice and I wanted to delete the duplicate.  I am going to try and repeat 
> what I said and I'm sorry if that means that people who receive this by 
> email get it twice.
>
> I love my Clem H for long, solo rides on uncertain road surfaces. It feels 
> lively, sturdy, and comfortable.The views with upright bars are amazing. 
> The gearing is suitable for hills. I would happily choose it for multi-day 
> tours or self-supported century rides. I would not choose it for rides with 
> friends who like to ride fast or for organized century rides, because these 
> typically have time-frames that are not ideal for Clem riding. I would 
> hesitate to choose Clem if you plan to take your bike on public 
> transportation or up and down narrow stairs.  I have an Appaloosa as well 
> and I would say the same things about it. It is perhaps a bit more nimble 
> than my Clem but I would not consider it as noticeably better in the areas 
> where Clem is not optimal.  Both are great, fun, comfortable bikes that 
> suit a wide variety of riding conditions. But if you want a bike to keep up 
> with friends on lightweight, drop-bar road bikes, I would choose something 
> else. I like to ride the Clem when I don't need to be somewhere at a 
> particular time. It is not that the bike is slow. It is fun to ride when I 
> have time to enjoy the scenery and terrain. 
>
> Val in Boulder, CO
>
>
>
>
>
> On Saturday, February 10, 2018 at 3:56:42 PM UTC-7, Nancy Seibel wrote:
>>
>> Hi, there, I'm seriously thinking of buying a Clem L (I know...that's how 
>> it starts) and wanted to hear from those of you have ridden this bike. What 
>> do you like about it? Any dislikes? How is it on hilly routes? What about 
>> long rides - defined as 30-60+ miles?
>>
>> I test rode one for a short spin around town and loved it. But would I 
>> Iove it in hilly Baltimore County MD, on a century or out for a multi-day 
>> tour?
>>
>> Thanks in advance for your comments!
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Experiences with Clem L or H

[Nancy Seibel]

Thanks for this helpful review.  Good point about the versatility of Clem 
L. 

On Sunday, February 11, 2018 at 10:41:37 AM UTC-5, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:
>
> Hi Nancy, 
>
> I have a little Clem H AND Clem L experience as my husband and his mother 
> have one of each. I've ridden his Clem H when my Betty Foy was in the shop 
> for repairs. While I haven't ridden it for 30 milers, I have ridden it up a 
> gigantic hill, which I think was part of your inquiry. My Betty Foy (modern 
> equivalent is the Cheviot Joe Bernard mentioned) gets up that hill every 
> day, no issues. When I took the stouter Clem H, I am happy to report I 
> noticed no extra difficulty. My MIL has the Clem L, and I've ridden that 
> around lake country, which isn't hill country, but I always felt like I 
> could go forever on her bike. That's saying a lot - because I feel like my 
> bike, the BF, is an extension of ME. I am 100% comfortable and any other 
> bike feels foreign to me. However, both those Clems felt comfortable, 
> completely comfortable, in different ways I'm not sure I have words for. I 
> vote for the Clem L because I see it as more versatile with that low top 
> tube. Want to wear a dress? No problem. Want to haul a huge load on the 
> rear rack but don't want to have to swing your leg over it? Clem L! 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Experiences with Clem L or H

[Nancy Seibel]

It always is helpful to me to weigh my own experience against others'  with 
a decision like this one. Sometimes going with "you already love it" lands 
me in the position of buying something I thought would be great...only to 
realize it didn't live up to expectations! So I'm hoping to moderate that 
love with well rounded input from the group. I'm getting that, and very 
appreciative of it! Thanks!

On Sunday, February 11, 2018 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-5, Garth wrote:
>
> Nope, I don't own a Clem.  Yes, I have wondered the same thing , how 
> "would" I like it for longer rides ?   I don't know , I'm not a fortune 
> teller.  
>
>
> I see absolutely no reason why not. Each and every rider, bike and ride is 
> UNIQUE , incomparable.  You can compare all you like, but what's the point 
> ? Comparing with other comparisons, based on other comparisons, based on 
> still more comparisons , and on and on ?  Do you see the nonsense in that ? 
>  Yeah, what would be the point ? To spoil this moment with what coulda 
> woulda and shoulda been based on an endless string of comparisons ?   Blhah 
> !Well heck, what about now, here, right here and now, in which there is 
> no comparison ? !!!   
>
> Yeah ...  just get the Clem, any Clem.   You would not be desiring it if 
> you didn't already love it.  
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Experiences with Clem L or H

[Nancy Seibel]

Thank you!

On Sunday, February 11, 2018 at 9:54:31 AM UTC-5, Davey Two Shoes wrote:
>
> The clem is a great bike capable of almost anything but it prefers to be 
> treated as a diesel engine work horse. I'd look for something more lively 
> and encouraging for those longer rides. Good luck!

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[RBW] Re: Experiences with Clem L or H

[Nancy Seibel]

On Sunday, February 11, 2018 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-5, Garth wrote:
>
> Nope, I don't own a Clem.  Yes, I have wondered the same thing , how 
> "would" I like it for longer rides ?   I don't know , I'm not a fortune 
> teller.  
>
>
> I see absolutely no reason why not. Each and every rider, bike and ride is 
> UNIQUE , incomparable.  You can compare all you like, but what's the point 
> ? Comparing with other comparisons, based on other comparisons, based on 
> still more comparisons , and on and on ?  Do you see the nonsense in that ? 
>  Yeah, what would be the point ? To spoil this moment with what coulda 
> woulda and shoulda been based on an endless string of comparisons ?   Blhah 
> !Well heck, what about now, here, right here and now, in which there is 
> no comparison ? !!!   
>
> Yeah ...  just get the Clem, any Clem.   You would not be desiring it if 
> you didn't already love it.  
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Experiences with Clem L or H

[Nancy Seibel]

Joe, thanks. It's helpful to hear of your experiences. I knew there would 
be a variety in the responses! That gives me more to go on as I think this 
over. 

On Saturday, February 10, 2018 at 9:25:09 PM UTC-5, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> I owned one and loved it, but it wouldn't be my first choice of Rivbike 
> for the longer hilly rides you're proposing. It's a but heavy and sluggish 
> compared to the Cheviot I replaced it with. For me this wasn't a deal 
> breaker for the type of town cruising I usually do, but I'd want something 
> a little zippier for 60 miles or a century. Also, there was some flex in my 
> 52cm frame due, I presume, to it being such a long bike without a toptube. 
> It didn't bother me, but it's noticeable. 

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[RBW] Re: Experiences with Clem L or H

[Nancy Seibel]

Thanks, Mark! Very helpful to read these experiences and thoughts. I'n not 
an "A" club rider :) and do own a lighter, drop-bar bike that I'd be 
keeping. I think the 2 would be good companions. 

On Saturday, February 10, 2018 at 7:47:51 PM UTC-5, Mark in Beacon wrote:
>
> Hi Nancy. I think your initial impressions would carry over into longer, 
> hillier rides for the most part. I have never done a century or a multi day 
> tour on my Clementine, aka Clem L, but I could certainly imagine doing so 
> without any issues. The complete Clems come with a gearing range that 
> should allow you to tackle just about any hill--I rode to the top of Mt. 
> Beacon here on a steep fire road with no problem.
>
>  And as long as you are okay with more upright style bars for long rides, 
> there should be no reason you can't do them on a Clem, since the bike is 
> built for comfort but is more athletic and sporty than the bikes sometimes 
> billed as comfort bikes in the stores. The only possible reservation I 
> might have is if you were an "A" club rider intent on doing a fast timed 
> kind of century, as the bike, while perfectly capable of high cruising 
> speeds, is not a machine that seeks to eke out every last watt your body 
> has to offer. I don't get the sense that is the kind of riding you are 
> after, so I would say you are good. I don't do tours, but I know of at 
> least one person on the list who went touring on a Clem and. IIRC.,  the 
> bike performed beyond her expectations. It also has the benefit of all 
> kinds of braze-ons for racks. For rides in the 30-60 mile range, I take 
> drop bar bikes, but that is mostly habit. If the Clem were my only bike, I 
> have no doubt it would be just fine with those kinds of rides. The Clem L 
> is a really great do it all bicycle and can definitely handle the grades 
> and distances,
>
> On Saturday, February 10, 2018 at 5:56:42 PM UTC-5, Nancy Seibel wrote:
>>
>> Hi, there, I'm seriously thinking of buying a Clem L (I know...that's how 
>> it starts) and wanted to hear from those of you have ridden this bike. What 
>> do you like about it? Any dislikes? How is it on hilly routes? What about 
>> long rides - defined as 30-60+ miles?
>>
>> I test rode one for a short spin around town and loved it. But would I 
>> Iove it in hilly Baltimore County MD, on a century or out for a multi-day 
>> tour?
>>
>> Thanks in advance for your comments!
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Experiences with Clem L or H

[Belopsky]

As far as your longer rides question - what sort of riding? A long day 
sight-seeing? Sure, Clem is fine.

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[RBW] Re: Experiences with Clem L or H

[Valerie Yates]

I didn't mean to delete my last message. It looked like it was posted twice 
and I wanted to delete the duplicate.  I am going to try and repeat what I 
said and I'm sorry if that means that people who receive this by email get 
it twice.

I love my Clem H for long, solo rides on uncertain road surfaces. It feels 
lively, sturdy, and comfortable.The views with upright bars are amazing. 
The gearing is suitable for hills. I would happily choose it for multi-day 
tours or self-supported century rides. I would not choose it for rides with 
friends who like to ride fast or for organized century rides, because these 
typically have time-frames that are not ideal for Clem riding. I would 
hesitate to choose Clem if you plan to take your bike on public 
transportation or up and down narrow stairs.  I have an Appaloosa as well 
and I would say the same things about it. It is perhaps a bit more nimble 
than my Clem but I would not consider it as noticeably better in the areas 
where Clem is not optimal.  Both are great, fun, comfortable bikes that 
suit a wide variety of riding conditions. But if you want a bike to keep up 
with friends on lightweight, drop-bar road bikes, I would choose something 
else. I like to ride the Clem when I don't need to be somewhere at a 
particular time. It is not that the bike is slow. It is fun to ride when I 
have time to enjoy the scenery and terrain. 

Val in Boulder, CO





On Saturday, February 10, 2018 at 3:56:42 PM UTC-7, Nancy Seibel wrote:
>
> Hi, there, I'm seriously thinking of buying a Clem L (I know...that's how 
> it starts) and wanted to hear from those of you have ridden this bike. What 
> do you like about it? Any dislikes? How is it on hilly routes? What about 
> long rides - defined as 30-60+ miles?
>
> I test rode one for a short spin around town and loved it. But would I 
> Iove it in hilly Baltimore County MD, on a century or out for a multi-day 
> tour?
>
> Thanks in advance for your comments!
>

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[RBW] Re: Experiences with Clem L or H

[Valerie Yates]

I love my Clem for long solo rides, especially when I don't know in advance 
what the road conditions will be. It feels really fun, secure, and 
comfortable, the gearing has good range for hills, and the views are 
amazing with the upright position. Mine has  the Sackville BarSack, which 
is perfect for holding a light layer, lunch, camera, etc.  I also have the 
AXA frame lock, which is great for quick stops in low-risk areas. I would 
not choose my Clem for a long ride in which I wanted to keep up with people 
who like to ride fast. Multi-day tour - yes. Self-supported century - yes. 
Organized century ride -- probably not since those are generally have 
time-frames that would not be suited to the Clem. If you are planning on 
taking it on public transportation or up and down stairs, Clem would not be 
my first choice. 

I'd say the same things about my Appaloosa. It is perhaps a bit livelier 
than the Clem but not enough to put it into a different category of riding. 
I enjoy having both because I have mine set up differently.  My Appaloosa 
has racks for loaded multi-day touring and tires for mostly pavement and 
the Clem is set up for day trips with all-terrain tires. 

Val in Boulder, CO



On Saturday, February 10, 2018 at 3:56:42 PM UTC-7, Nancy Seibel wrote:
>
> Hi, there, I'm seriously thinking of buying a Clem L (I know...that's how 
> it starts) and wanted to hear from those of you have ridden this bike. What 
> do you like about it? Any dislikes? How is it on hilly routes? What about 
> long rides - defined as 30-60+ miles?
>
> I test rode one for a short spin around town and loved it. But would I 
> Iove it in hilly Baltimore County MD, on a century or out for a multi-day 
> tour?
>
> Thanks in advance for your comments!
>

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[RBW] Re: Experiences with Clem L or H

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

Hi Nancy,

I have a little Clem H AND Clem L experience as my husband and his mother have 
one of each. I've ridden his Clem H when my Betty Foy was in the shop for 
repairs. While I haven't ridden it for 30 milers, I have ridden it up a 
gigantic hill, which I think was part of your inquiry. My Betty Foy (modern 
equivalent is the Cheviot Joe Bernard mentioned) gets up that hill every day, 
no issues. When I took the stouter Clem H, I am happy to report I noticed no 
extra difficulty. My MIL has the Clem L, and I've ridden that around lake 
country, which isn't hill country, but I always felt like I could go forever on 
her bike. That's saying a lot - because I feel like my bike, the BF, is an 
extension of ME. I am 100% comfortable and any other bike feels foreign to me. 
However, both those Clems felt comfortable, completely comfortable, in 
different ways I'm not sure I have words for. I vote for the Clem L because I 
see it as more versatile with that low top tube. Want to wear a dress? No 
problem. Want to haul a huge load on the rear rack but don't want to have to 
swing your leg over it? Clem L! 

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[RBW] Re: Experiences with Clem L or H

[Belopsky]

Nothing to add other than - My 52cm is great, but I want a Jones or just 
use my other commuter that isn't being used so it's for sale ;0

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[RBW] Re: Experiences with Clem L or H

[Joe Bernard]

Oh, I missed the last question. Yes, I rode the L and Chev on the same Fatty 
Rumpkins. 

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[RBW] Re: Experiences with Clem L or H

[Joe Bernard]

Not life-changingly different, but enough that I think a Cheviot or Appaloosa 
would be worth the cost difference over a Clem L for the kind of rides she's 
discussing. 

I'm not trying to talk down the Clem, I just wanted to give her an honest 
assessment from my POV because I think that's what she asked for. The Clems are 
great bikes, but there are zippier Rivs for longish, hilly road rides. 

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[RBW] Re: Experiences with Clem L or H

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

As a counterpoint, I am 5'10" 175, I ride a 52 Clementine and don't notice 
any more flex than any other bike. I'm not a spinner, but maybe I'm more 
delicate than you. In terms of bike weight, sure the Clem is heavy, but 
even with the so so stock tires I would not call it sluggish. Did you run 
comparable tires on the Clem and the Chev? I've also ridden a Chev, though 
not as extensively. Slightly sportier, but not lifechangingly different  
Though now I will try a back to back comparison when I get an opportunity.


 I wonder if you had comparable tires? 
On Saturday, February 10, 2018 at 9:25:09 PM UTC-5, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> I owned one and loved it, but it wouldn't be my first choice of Rivbike 
> for the longer hilly rides you're proposing. It's a but heavy and sluggish 
> compared to the Cheviot I replaced it with. For me this wasn't a deal 
> breaker for the type of town cruising I usually do, but I'd want something 
> a little zippier for 60 miles or a century. Also, there was some flex in my 
> 52cm frame due, I presume, to it being such a long bike without a toptube. 
> It didn't bother me, but it's noticeable. 

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[RBW] Re: Experiences with Clem L or H

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Hi Nancy. I think your initial impressions would carry over into longer, 
hillier rides for the most part. I have never done a century or a multi day 
tour on my Clementine, aka Clem L, but I could certainly imagine doing so 
without any issues. The complete Clems come with a gearing range that 
should allow you to tackle just about any hill--I rode to the top of Mt. 
Beacon here on a steep fire road with no problem.

 And as long as you are okay with more upright style bars for long rides, 
there should be no reason you can't do them on a Clem, since the bike is 
built for comfort but is more athletic and sporty than the bikes sometimes 
billed as comfort bikes in the stores. The only possible reservation I 
might have is if you were an "A" club rider intent on doing a fast timed 
kind of century, as the bike, while perfectly capable of high cruising 
speeds, is not a machine that seeks to eke out every last watt your body 
has to offer. I don't get the sense that is the kind of riding you are 
after, so I would say you are good. I don't do tours, but I know of at 
least one person on the list who went touring on a Clem and. IIRC.,  the 
bike performed beyond her expectations. It also has the benefit of all 
kinds of braze-ons for racks. For rides in the 30-60 mile range, I take 
drop bar bikes, but that is mostly habit. If the Clem were my only bike, I 
have no doubt it would be just fine with those kinds of rides. The Clem L 
is a really great do it all bicycle and can definitely handle the grades 
and distances,

On Saturday, February 10, 2018 at 5:56:42 PM UTC-5, Nancy Seibel wrote:
>
> Hi, there, I'm seriously thinking of buying a Clem L (I know...that's how 
> it starts) and wanted to hear from those of you have ridden this bike. What 
> do you like about it? Any dislikes? How is it on hilly routes? What about 
> long rides - defined as 30-60+ miles?
>
> I test rode one for a short spin around town and loved it. But would I 
> Iove it in hilly Baltimore County MD, on a century or out for a multi-day 
> tour?
>
> Thanks in advance for your comments!
>

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