[RBW] Re: If You Rerake The Fork On A Riv BIke Is It Still A Riv Bike?

[PATRICK MOORE]

On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 8:48 PM, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery <
thill@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> This is like the philosophical question that led to me abandoning
> bicycle discussion boards for a couple years starting around 2004. The
> OP of that particular discussion asked if his acquisition of an
> Atlantis or Rambouillet justified his referring to himself as a
> "Rivendell Owner". Some owners of custom Rivendells decided that the
> word "Rivendell" had too much cachet for owners of lowly and
> compromised Atlantises and Rambouillets. By that standard, your
> Rambouillet doesn't qualify as a Rivendell even in its pristine state.
> So you have nothing to lose, cachet-wise, by re-raking the fork.


I usually hate email abbreviations, but in this case, ROTFLOL, or even
better, ROTFFLOL!!

Lessee, lessee, less take this idea and move forward with it. OK, my Rivs
are customs, so they're real Rivs; well, at least the last two, for the
first one was built by Waterford, not a Rivendell owned builder chained
whimpering to his alignment table with Grant standing over him with a whip.
But, OTOH (alright, I'll stop), they have smallish frames for my height and
leg length and they use substandard wheels (559/571). So once again, are
they genyoowine Rivs? And #3 was modified by local builder Dave Porter for
fixed use. Does that make it recede from the dim, shimmering, ethereal ideal
of Rivendellishness?

If I use MKS (Keirin approved!!!) track pedals on my commuter Riv, but lowly
Christophe straps and Kucharik toe covers, do I augment or diminish my
Rivendellishness? Must I subtract points for every cm the bar is below
saddle? And Flites instead of Brookses ... come now!

We could carry on this thread for a decade! I say, let's have a contest to
see who can pare down the concept, "Genyoowine Riv Ownership" to the
smallest population. What fun!

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[RBW] Re: If You Rerake The Fork On A Riv BIke Is It Still A Riv Bike?

[Bill M.]

If you lace up the skirts of an aging Brooks sadde to get a few more
years out of it, is it still a Brooks?

Sure it is.  Woodworkers know that every tool can be (or even must be)
tuned to work optimally for its user.

Bill

On Jan 23, 6:51 am, Larry Powers  wrote:
> I randonneur on a Rambouillet with a large Berthoud handlebar bag.  Most of 
> the time there are no issues with this but when I am tired and climbing steep 
> hills I can notice the affect of the bag.  For this reason and because I 
> would also be able to run bigger tires with fenders, I have toyed with 
> getting a new fork for the bike.  If I did would this still be a Riv 
> Rambouillet?  Riv/Grant intentionally build high trail bikes so modifying one 
> of their bikes to a low trail bike goes against their philosophy and In my 
> mind creates a bike that is no longer a Rivendell.
>
> This is merely a philisophical question I am pondering while at work.  Many 
> people love to tinker and there is nothing wrong with that.  When my 
> beautiful orange Rambouillet finally needs a paint job I may decide to modify 
> it by changing the fork and adding canti studs but when I do I am not sure 
> that I can say it is a Rivendell.Larry Powers
>
> "just when you think that you've been gyped the bearded lady comes and does a 
> double back flip" - John Hiatt
> _
> Hotmail® goes where you go. On a PC, on the Web, on your 
> phone.http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/learnmore/versatility.aspx#mobile?...
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[RBW] Re: If You Rerake The Fork On A Riv BIke Is It Still A Riv Bike?

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

This is like the philosophical question that led to me abandoning
bicycle discussion boards for a couple years starting around 2004. The
OP of that particular discussion asked if his acquisition of an
Atlantis or Rambouillet justified his referring to himself as a
"Rivendell Owner". Some owners of custom Rivendells decided that the
word "Rivendell" had too much cachet for owners of lowly and
compromised Atlantises and Rambouillets. By that standard, your
Rambouillet doesn't qualify as a Rivendell even in its pristine state.
So you have nothing to lose, cachet-wise, by re-raking the fork.

On Jan 23, 8:51 am, Larry Powers  wrote:
> I randonneur on a Rambouillet with a large Berthoud handlebar bag.  Most of 
> the time there are no issues with this but when I am tired and climbing steep 
> hills I can notice the affect of the bag.  For this reason and because I 
> would also be able to run bigger tires with fenders, I have toyed with 
> getting a new fork for the bike.  If I did would this still be a Riv 
> Rambouillet?  Riv/Grant intentionally build high trail bikes so modifying one 
> of their bikes to a low trail bike goes against their philosophy and In my 
> mind creates a bike that is no longer a Rivendell.
>
> This is merely a philisophical question I am pondering while at work.  Many 
> people love to tinker and there is nothing wrong with that.  When my 
> beautiful orange Rambouillet finally needs a paint job I may decide to modify 
> it by changing the fork and adding canti studs but when I do I am not sure 
> that I can say it is a Rivendell.Larry Powers
>
> "just when you think that you've been gyped the bearded lady comes and does a 
> double back flip" - John Hiatt
> _
> Hotmail® goes where you go. On a PC, on the Web, on your 
> phone.http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/learnmore/versatility.aspx#mobile?...
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[RBW] Re: If You Rerake The Fork On A Riv BIke Is It Still A Riv Bike?

[periwinklekog]

> Richard Schwinn would argue (from his web site) that Waterford's "design 
> philosophy" is a cycling "gestalt."  Whatever that means.

When we start talking about bicycle gestalt (!!??!) we're not really
talking about bicycles anymore, but about large metal extensions of
our ego. And while I'll admit to having parked more than one of my
newly-built-up bikes in front of the TV so I could sit and stare at it
while I ate dinner -- come on Rivvy fans, you've ALL done it! -- I've
never confused my bike with my psyche.

Grant Peterson designs really cool frames that, when built up, make
really, really beautiful bikes to ride and enjoy. And that's what I'm
gonna do later this afternoon.
Cheers--Beth
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[RBW] Re: If You Rerake The Fork On A Riv BIke Is It Still A Riv Bike?

[Bruce]

Doug:

Richard Schwinn would argue (from his web site) that Waterford's "design 
philosophy" is a cycling "gestalt."  Whatever that means.

A custom Riv is made to measure for you (the important part) in term of 
dimensions and tubing selection with some fancier lugs and paint (The less 
important, but prettier part). If you happen to fit a Ram perfectly, it's 
pretty near the same riding experience as a custom that also fits you 
perfectly. That is, the design and feel is similarly informed.


Once you purchase a bike from anyone, including CX racer extraordinare Sachs, 
it IS your bike and changing the wheelset, the brakes, the forks, the saddle, 
handlebars, etc to have fun with it, or to make it supremely suited to how and 
where you ride is an entirely personal choice. The original question of "Is it 
still an RBW?" is still answered "Yes," in my book. YMMV.

best

bruce



____________________
From: Doug Van Cleve 
Subject: [RBW] Re: If You Rerake The Fork On A Riv BIke Is It Still A Riv  Bike?

IMHO Waterford doesn't really have a design philosophy so this isn't really a 
valid comparison.  Think more along the lines of a Richard Sachs bike.  If you 
took one of his typical red with white race bikes, had canti and rear rack 
bosses added, had it powder coated matte black then built it up as a commuter 
would it still be what RS meant it to be?

..snip..



From: Larry Powers 


I have toyed with getting a new fork for the bike.  If I did would this still 
be a Riv Rambouillet? 


  
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[RBW] Re: If You Rerake The Fork On A Riv BIke Is It Still A Riv Bike?

[Doug Van Cleve]

IMHO Waterford doesn't really have a design philosophy so this isn't really
a valid comparison.  Think more along the lines of a Richard Sachs bike.  If
you took one of his typical red with white race bikes, had canti and rear
rack bosses added, had it powder coated matte black then built it up as a
commuter would it still be what RS meant it to be?

Doug

P.S.  I'm not sure what the head angle on a Ram is, but if it isn't about 73
degrees I'm not sure a shorter trail (longer rake) fork will really give a
result comparable to the French front load biased geometry...

P.P.S.  A Ram isn't a one-off custom Riv.  If the frame geometry is
appropriate for a new low(er) trail fork it seems like a good way to go if
it tickles your fancy ;^)


On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Bruce  wrote:

> When you buy a Waterford, you can order it with a steel Waterford fork, or
> a Reynolds carbon fork or other after market model. They still decal it
> Waterford on the down tube and you tell people you own a Waterford. They
> make Rivendells there too btw.  So why would changing the fork make your RBW
> not an RBW? Why is running my Saluki with a Campy triple any less RBW than
> the Sugino XD you see on all the Riv website pics?  I suppose it's what your
> perception is, after all is said and done.
> --
> *From:* Larry Powers 
> **
>
> I have toyed with getting a new fork for the bike.  If I did would this
> still be a Riv Rambouillet?
>
>

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[RBW] Re: If You Rerake The Fork On A Riv BIke Is It Still A Riv Bike?

[fenderbender]

>From what I hear it is common in the pro peloton to use a fork with
longer axle to crown measurement and/or a longer rake for races with a
lot of pavé sections. Hincapie for instance used a low end Bontrager
OCLV carbon fork that fatal day in the 2006 Paris-Roubaix.

On 23 Jan, 20:40, Gino Zahnd  wrote:
> I personally know a person who re-raked his Atlantis fork with
> questionable to no results. This person rides extremely long events,
> and ultimately his conclusion on the experiment was: Meh. It didn't do
> anything.  Eventually he had a new fork built, and it seems to have
> changed the handling with a large front-only load. But wheel flop is
> still a factor because the headtube is slack.
>
> That said, he had a different rando-specific bike built, and it is
> still on the higher side of trail figures at 57mm. And it carries a
> handlebar bag perfectly fine. So is low trail really the be-all
> end-all thing to focus on?  Methinks not.
>
> As Cyclofiend stated, there are FAR more factors to a bike's handling
> than just the fork rake. And if you're looking at low trail as The
> Thing That Will Help, you can't look at it without also taking into
> consideration headtube angle, tire size, what size loads you generally
> carry, where you carry them, etc.
>
> I ride brevets on a Saluki (http://flickr.com/photos/gzahnd/2221488837/) with 
> a medium sized
> Inujirushi handlebar bag, and I don't have problems. I can ride no
> handed in just about any condition other than uphill at <10mph. But
> really, who climbs without their hands on the bars? That isn't
> efficient.  Oh, and heavy cross winds seem to bite me with a bar bag
> up front.  I've never ridden a low trail bike, so I can't compare the
> uphill-no-hands or crosswind factors.
>
> So to answer your philosophical question, my opinion is that you'd be
> taking a bike designed for certain types of riding, and trying to make
> it something that it is not. It isn't designed for that one very
> specific type of load carrying, and anything you do to it is less than
> ideal because you're only looking at one of many factors.
>
> Gino
>
> (sorry, Jim, about continuing this thread)
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 6:51 AM, Larry Powers  wrote:
> > I randonneur on a Rambouillet with a large Berthoud handlebar bag.  Most of
> > the time there are no issues with this but when I am tired and climbing
> > steep hills I can notice the affect of the bag.  For this reason and because
> > I would also be able to run bigger tires with fenders, I have toyed with
> > getting a new fork for the bike.  If I did would this still be a Riv
> > Rambouillet?  Riv/Grant intentionally build high trail bikes so modifying
> > one of their bikes to a low trail bike goes against their philosophy and In
> > my mind creates a bike that is no longer a Rivendell.
>
> > This is merely a philisophical question I am pondering while at work.  Many
> > people love to tinker and there is nothing wrong with that.  When my
> > beautiful orange Rambouillet finally needs a paint job I may decide to
> > modify it by changing the fork and adding canti studs but when I do I am not
> > sure that I can say it is a Rivendell.
>
> > Larry Powers
>
> > "just when you think that you've been gyped the bearded lady comes and does
> > a double back flip" - John Hiatt
>
> > 
> > Hotmail(R) goes where you go. On a PC, on the Web, on your phone. See how.- 
> > Dölj citerad text -
>
> - Visa citerad text -
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[RBW] Re: If You Rerake The Fork On A Riv BIke Is It Still A Riv Bike?

[fenderbender]

If you have some extra thread showing or use a ahead set type fork
steer tube you could slow the steering down a bit by fitting a spacer/
upside down race below the crown headset race. It would at least be a
way of trying out a different steer geometry before you re-rake.

On 23 Jan, 20:40, Gino Zahnd  wrote:
> I personally know a person who re-raked his Atlantis fork with
> questionable to no results. This person rides extremely long events,
> and ultimately his conclusion on the experiment was: Meh. It didn't do
> anything.  Eventually he had a new fork built, and it seems to have
> changed the handling with a large front-only load. But wheel flop is
> still a factor because the headtube is slack.
>
> That said, he had a different rando-specific bike built, and it is
> still on the higher side of trail figures at 57mm. And it carries a
> handlebar bag perfectly fine. So is low trail really the be-all
> end-all thing to focus on?  Methinks not.
>
> As Cyclofiend stated, there are FAR more factors to a bike's handling
> than just the fork rake. And if you're looking at low trail as The
> Thing That Will Help, you can't look at it without also taking into
> consideration headtube angle, tire size, what size loads you generally
> carry, where you carry them, etc.
>
> I ride brevets on a Saluki (http://flickr.com/photos/gzahnd/2221488837/) with 
> a medium sized
> Inujirushi handlebar bag, and I don't have problems. I can ride no
> handed in just about any condition other than uphill at <10mph. But
> really, who climbs without their hands on the bars? That isn't
> efficient.  Oh, and heavy cross winds seem to bite me with a bar bag
> up front.  I've never ridden a low trail bike, so I can't compare the
> uphill-no-hands or crosswind factors.
>
> So to answer your philosophical question, my opinion is that you'd be
> taking a bike designed for certain types of riding, and trying to make
> it something that it is not. It isn't designed for that one very
> specific type of load carrying, and anything you do to it is less than
> ideal because you're only looking at one of many factors.
>
> Gino
>
> (sorry, Jim, about continuing this thread)
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 6:51 AM, Larry Powers  wrote:
> > I randonneur on a Rambouillet with a large Berthoud handlebar bag.  Most of
> > the time there are no issues with this but when I am tired and climbing
> > steep hills I can notice the affect of the bag.  For this reason and because
> > I would also be able to run bigger tires with fenders, I have toyed with
> > getting a new fork for the bike.  If I did would this still be a Riv
> > Rambouillet?  Riv/Grant intentionally build high trail bikes so modifying
> > one of their bikes to a low trail bike goes against their philosophy and In
> > my mind creates a bike that is no longer a Rivendell.
>
> > This is merely a philisophical question I am pondering while at work.  Many
> > people love to tinker and there is nothing wrong with that.  When my
> > beautiful orange Rambouillet finally needs a paint job I may decide to
> > modify it by changing the fork and adding canti studs but when I do I am not
> > sure that I can say it is a Rivendell.
>
> > Larry Powers
>
> > "just when you think that you've been gyped the bearded lady comes and does
> > a double back flip" - John Hiatt
>
> > 
> > Hotmail(R) goes where you go. On a PC, on the Web, on your phone. See how.- 
> > Dölj citerad text -
>
> - Visa citerad text -
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[RBW] Re: If You Rerake The Fork On A Riv BIke Is It Still A Riv Bike?

[Gino Zahnd]

I personally know a person who re-raked his Atlantis fork with
questionable to no results. This person rides extremely long events,
and ultimately his conclusion on the experiment was: Meh. It didn't do
anything.  Eventually he had a new fork built, and it seems to have
changed the handling with a large front-only load. But wheel flop is
still a factor because the headtube is slack.

That said, he had a different rando-specific bike built, and it is
still on the higher side of trail figures at 57mm. And it carries a
handlebar bag perfectly fine. So is low trail really the be-all
end-all thing to focus on?  Methinks not.

As Cyclofiend stated, there are FAR more factors to a bike's handling
than just the fork rake. And if you're looking at low trail as The
Thing That Will Help, you can't look at it without also taking into
consideration headtube angle, tire size, what size loads you generally
carry, where you carry them, etc.

I ride brevets on a Saluki (
http://flickr.com/photos/gzahnd/2221488837/ ) with a medium sized
Inujirushi handlebar bag, and I don't have problems. I can ride no
handed in just about any condition other than uphill at <10mph. But
really, who climbs without their hands on the bars? That isn't
efficient.  Oh, and heavy cross winds seem to bite me with a bar bag
up front.  I've never ridden a low trail bike, so I can't compare the
uphill-no-hands or crosswind factors.

So to answer your philosophical question, my opinion is that you'd be
taking a bike designed for certain types of riding, and trying to make
it something that it is not. It isn't designed for that one very
specific type of load carrying, and anything you do to it is less than
ideal because you're only looking at one of many factors.

Gino

(sorry, Jim, about continuing this thread)




On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 6:51 AM, Larry Powers  wrote:
> I randonneur on a Rambouillet with a large Berthoud handlebar bag.  Most of
> the time there are no issues with this but when I am tired and climbing
> steep hills I can notice the affect of the bag.  For this reason and because
> I would also be able to run bigger tires with fenders, I have toyed with
> getting a new fork for the bike.  If I did would this still be a Riv
> Rambouillet?  Riv/Grant intentionally build high trail bikes so modifying
> one of their bikes to a low trail bike goes against their philosophy and In
> my mind creates a bike that is no longer a Rivendell.
>
> This is merely a philisophical question I am pondering while at work.  Many
> people love to tinker and there is nothing wrong with that.  When my
> beautiful orange Rambouillet finally needs a paint job I may decide to
> modify it by changing the fork and adding canti studs but when I do I am not
> sure that I can say it is a Rivendell.
>
> Larry Powers
>
> "just when you think that you've been gyped the bearded lady comes and does
> a double back flip" - John Hiatt
>
>
>
> 
> Hotmail(R) goes where you go. On a PC, on the Web, on your phone. See how.
> >
>

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[RBW] Re: If You Rerake The Fork On A Riv BIke Is It Still A Riv Bike?

[Frederick, Steve]

Not only would it still be a Riv, it would be your Riv, uniquely and subtly 
modified to suit you even better... 

-Original Message-
From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com]on Behalf Of Larry Powers
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 9:51 AM
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Subject: [RBW] If You Rerake The Fork On A Riv BIke Is It Still A Riv Bike?


I randonneur on a Rambouillet with a large Berthoud handlebar bag.  Most of the 
time there are no issues with this but when I am tired and climbing steep hills 
I can notice the affect of the bag.  For this reason and because I would also 
be able to run bigger tires with fenders, I have toyed with getting a new fork 
for the bike.  If I did would this still be a Riv Rambouillet?  Riv/Grant 
intentionally build high trail bikes so modifying one of their bikes to a low 
trail bike goes against their philosophy and In my mind creates a bike that is 
no longer a Rivendell.
 
This is merely a philisophical question I am pondering while at work.  Many 
people love to tinker and there is nothing wrong with that.  When my beautiful 
orange Rambouillet finally needs a paint job I may decide to modify it by 
changing the fork and adding canti studs but when I do I am not sure that I can 
say it is a Rivendell.

Larry Powers 
 
"just when you think that you've been gyped the bearded lady comes and does a 
double back flip" - John Hiatt 




  _  

Hotmail® goes where you go. On a PC, on the Web, on your phone. See  

 how.




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[RBW] Re: If You Rerake The Fork On A Riv BIke Is It Still A Riv Bike?

[Esteban]

I toyed around with low trail - and now I just want to get on the bike
as it is and ride it.  If it handles a little funny with a heavy front
load, well, so be it.For me, Grant's design works great.  With a
Wald basket full of 25lbs, I just use two hands.  You can always try a
different fork and switch it out when you want.

On Jan 23, 8:32 am, CycloFiend  wrote:
> on 1/23/09 6:51 AM, Larry Powers at lapower...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > Riv/Grant intentionally build high trail bikes so modifying one of their 
> > bikes
> > to a low trail bike goes against their philosophy and In my mind creates a
> > bike that is no longer a Rivendell.
>
> My strong belief is that Grant builds the bikes that perform the way he
> likes, and they happen to have high trail.
>
> - J
>
> --
> Jim Edgar
> cyclofi...@earthlink.net
>
> Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries -http://www.cyclofiend.com
> Current Classics - Cross Bikes
> Singlespeed - Working Bikes
>
> Get your photos posted:http://www.cyclofiend.com/guidelines
>
> "Then I sat up, wiped the water out of my eyes, and looked at my bike, and
> just like that I knew it was dead"
>
> -- Robert McCammon, "Boy's Life"
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[RBW] Re: If You Rerake The Fork On A Riv BIke Is It Still A Riv Bike?

[fenderbender]

Not sure how you mount your bag currently. But if you have it mounted
to a bracket on the handlebars it might better to reposition the bag
instead. The key is to get the weight centered over or slightly behind
the hub. With a small front rack you should be able to position it
closer to the steer tube a reduce wheel flopping. Just a thought.

On 23 Jan, 17:32, CycloFiend  wrote:
> on 1/23/09 6:51 AM, Larry Powers at lapower...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > Riv/Grant intentionally build high trail bikes so modifying one of their 
> > bikes
> > to a low trail bike goes against their philosophy and In my mind creates a
> > bike that is no longer a Rivendell.
>
> My strong belief is that Grant builds the bikes that perform the way he
> likes, and they happen to have high trail.
>
> - J
>
> --
> Jim Edgar
> cyclofi...@earthlink.net
>
> Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries -http://www.cyclofiend.com
> Current Classics - Cross Bikes
> Singlespeed - Working Bikes
>
> Get your photos posted:http://www.cyclofiend.com/guidelines
>
> "Then I sat up, wiped the water out of my eyes, and looked at my bike, and
> just like that I knew it was dead"
>
> -- Robert McCammon, "Boy's Life"
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[RBW] Re: If You Rerake The Fork On A Riv BIke Is It Still A Riv Bike?

[CycloFiend]

on 1/23/09 6:51 AM, Larry Powers at lapower...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Riv/Grant intentionally build high trail bikes so modifying one of their bikes
> to a low trail bike goes against their philosophy and In my mind creates a
> bike that is no longer a Rivendell.

My strong belief is that Grant builds the bikes that perform the way he
likes, and they happen to have high trail.
 
- J 

-- 
Jim Edgar
cyclofi...@earthlink.net

Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries - http://www.cyclofiend.com
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"Then I sat up, wiped the water out of my eyes, and looked at my bike, and
just like that I knew it was dead"

-- Robert McCammon, "Boy's Life"


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[RBW] Re: If You Rerake The Fork On A Riv BIke Is It Still A Riv Bike?

[CycloFiend]

on 1/23/09 6:51 AM, Larry Powers at lapower...@hotmail.com wrote:
> I randonneur on a Rambouillet with a large Berthoud handlebar bag.  Most of
> the time there are no issues with this but when I am tired and climbing steep
> hills I can notice the affect of the bag.  For this reason and because I would
> also be able to run bigger tires with fenders, I have toyed with getting a new
> fork for the bike.  If I did would this still be a Riv Rambouillet?  Riv/Grant
> intentionally build high trail bikes so modifying one of their bikes to a low
> trail bike goes against their philosophy and In my mind creates a bike that is
> no longer a Rivendell.
>  
> This is merely a philisophical question I am pondering while at work.  Many
> people love to tinker and there is nothing wrong with that.  When my beautiful
> orange Rambouillet finally needs a paint job I may decide to modify it by
> changing the fork and adding canti studs but when I do I am not sure that I
> can say it is a Rivendell.

I worry a little that this has the potential to become one of those "winter"
theoretical arguments. ;^)  Among other lists, trail theory has become a bit
divisive.

It seems that some people feel that fork rake is the only determining factor
in performance. (Personally, I doubt that sincerely - there are just too
many other variables in frame design.) This seems to be influenced by the
mainstream cycling aftermarket fork market, which is quite significant. The
fact that most of the bikes for which those are marketed are largely similar
in dimensions, despite the wide variety of manufacturer claims and paint
jobs.

Specific to your question, for me, it seems that adding a different fork
would be the same as chopping the chainstays to shorten the wheelbase. It's
essentially a "hot rod" mod, making the Rivendell you started with similar
to the Model A that became the Roadster. (And I'm not making the analogy
based on speed differences between the two.)

They would be related, but they would be different bicycles. You certainly
couldn't expect someone who has a similar bike with original spec's to hop
on and not notice a difference.

- Jim

-- 
Jim Edgar
cyclofi...@earthlink.net

Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries - http://www.cyclofiend.com
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"My nighttime attitude is anyone can run you down and get away with it.
That's why I don't even own a bike light or one of those godawful reflective
suits.  Because if you've put yourself in a position where someone has to
see you in order for you to be safe...you've already blown it."
-- Neal Stephenson, "Zodiac"


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[RBW] Re: If You Rerake The Fork On A Riv BIke Is It Still A Riv Bike?

[Bruce]

When you buy a Waterford, you can order it with a steel Waterford fork, or a 
Reynolds carbon fork or other after market model. They still decal it Waterford 
on the down tube and you tell people you own a Waterford. They make Rivendells 
there too btw.  So why would changing the fork make your RBW not an RBW? Why is 
running my Saluki with a Campy triple any less RBW than the Sugino XD you see 
on all the Riv website pics?  I suppose it's what your perception is, after all 
is said and done.



From: Larry Powers 


, I have toyed with getting a new fork for the bike.  If I did would this still 
be a Riv Rambouillet? 



  
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