[RBW] Re: Internal 3-speed QB question
Jim: In the past 2 years I've built up a few sets of Sturmey Archer 8 speed drum hub wheels... I really like these hubs, and so far the quality of these hubs has been excellent, so good luck with yours. I plan to do something similar as what you're doing, so I'd love to hear your experience with this setup. One other challenge I've had with this (and other internal geared hubs) is the shifter... often you're stuck using whatever shifter the manufacturer provides, which can seriously limit your bar (and hand- placement) options. Companies like J-Tek have introduced 8-speed bar end shifters (kudos), which pull the right amount of cable to be compatible with the Alfine and SA 8-speed hubs. Measuring the amount of cable pull (if not already avail from the mfr) should be fairly simple to measure, and with enough training (and mashed internals through trial and error) I suppose a person could train oneself to friction-shift an internal geared hub. So here's a shout out to all would-be inventors and machinists out there (or Google search experts, in case I'm simply behind the times). The world needs an inline universal cable-travel gadget (similar to the Problem Solvers Travel Agent) that can be set to pull a variable amount of cable, depending on number of gears, manufacturer, etc. This should enable you to use whatever shifter you like with whatever drivetrain, internal or external, Campy, Shimano, SRAM, SA, you name it. Oh, and while we're inventing these things, why not invent an inline cable lever (not a barrel adjustor) that easily and quickly allows for derailleur trimming for index shifters (especially front derailleurs)? To all who provide solutions to these nagging problems, I wish you a life of great fortune and happiness thank you. BB On Sep 22, 3:19 am, James Warren wrote: > Thanks Philip. > > I'm considering this 5-speed hub for the QB: > > http://www.sturmey-archer.com/products/hubs/cid/4/id/34/specs/1 > > If I'm reading it right, if I set this up with a 22 tooth cog in back, the > lowest gear will act like that divided by .625, in other words, the lowest > gear in back will act like a 35 tooth cog. > > Combine that with my functioning front derailleur and triple crank up front > (24-36-48) and consider the gear range... > > ...is all of this too good to be true? > > -Jim W. > > > > -Original Message----- > >From: Philip Williamson > >Sent: Sep 21, 2010 11:54 PM > >To: RBW Owners Bunch > >Subject: [RBW] Re: Internal 3-speed QB question > > >The Sturmey S3X is supposed to accept threaded freewheels as well as > >splined cogs. They come in 120mm spacing, and some sexy colors (not > >green). > >The "Quickbeam Supertype" setup would be an S3X and a Schlumpf, of > >course... > > > Philip Williamson > >www.biketinker.com > > >On Sep 20, 10:39 pm, CycloFiend wrote: > >> on 9/20/10 9:45 PM, James Warren at jimcwar...@earthlink.net wrote: > > >> > I'm looking for information on Shimano 3-speed internal hubs with the > >> > following idea in mind. In the following pictures: > > >> >http://www.cyclofiend.com/Images/rbw/rr36_pg27.jpg > > >> > the rear derailleur shown is not functioning as a rear derailleur. There > >> > is no > >> > cable attached, and the derailleur is only there to take up a lot of > >> > slack so > >> > that I can have vastly different chainrings up front shifted with a front > >> > derailleur. Right now, the bike has three rings in front, 24-36-48, so > >> > the > >> > bike has three gears total. (In the photo, there are two gears with a > >> > pants-guard. This set-up has worked fine whether as a 1-speed or 2.) > >> > What I would like to do is get a bit of gear-shifting in the back > >> > through use > >> > of an internal 3-speed hub. I would like to make the bike an internal > >> > shifter > >> > in the rear but still retain its 3-chainring derailleur system in the > >> > front, > >> > for a total of 9 gears (3x3). Is there any reason that I couldn't use an > >> > internal 3-speed hub, like Shimano's, but while using this hub, still > >> > have it > >> > work with the dummy derailleur mounted as shown in the photos so that it > >> > takes > >> > up slack and allows me to still do wide range shifting in front? > > >> > I realize this is a bit complicated (due to rear spacing and lack of > >> > derailleur hanger in rear) and I'm trying to research it myself, but any > >> > pointers would be
Re: [RBW] Re: Internal 3-speed QB question
Thanks Philip. I'm considering this 5-speed hub for the QB: http://www.sturmey-archer.com/products/hubs/cid/4/id/34/specs/1 If I'm reading it right, if I set this up with a 22 tooth cog in back, the lowest gear will act like that divided by .625, in other words, the lowest gear in back will act like a 35 tooth cog. Combine that with my functioning front derailleur and triple crank up front (24-36-48) and consider the gear range... ...is all of this too good to be true? -Jim W. -Original Message- >From: Philip Williamson >Sent: Sep 21, 2010 11:54 PM >To: RBW Owners Bunch >Subject: [RBW] Re: Internal 3-speed QB question > >The Sturmey S3X is supposed to accept threaded freewheels as well as >splined cogs. They come in 120mm spacing, and some sexy colors (not >green). >The "Quickbeam Supertype" setup would be an S3X and a Schlumpf, of >course... > > Philip Williamson >www.biketinker.com > >On Sep 20, 10:39 pm, CycloFiend wrote: >> on 9/20/10 9:45 PM, James Warren at jimcwar...@earthlink.net wrote: >> >> >> >> > I'm looking for information on Shimano 3-speed internal hubs with the >> > following idea in mind. In the following pictures: >> >> >http://www.cyclofiend.com/Images/rbw/rr36_pg27.jpg >> >> > the rear derailleur shown is not functioning as a rear derailleur. There >> > is no >> > cable attached, and the derailleur is only there to take up a lot of slack >> > so >> > that I can have vastly different chainrings up front shifted with a front >> > derailleur. Right now, the bike has three rings in front, 24-36-48, so the >> > bike has three gears total. (In the photo, there are two gears with a >> > pants-guard. This set-up has worked fine whether as a 1-speed or 2.) >> > What I would like to do is get a bit of gear-shifting in the back through >> > use >> > of an internal 3-speed hub. I would like to make the bike an internal >> > shifter >> > in the rear but still retain its 3-chainring derailleur system in the >> > front, >> > for a total of 9 gears (3x3). Is there any reason that I couldn't use an >> > internal 3-speed hub, like Shimano's, but while using this hub, still have >> > it >> > work with the dummy derailleur mounted as shown in the photos so that it >> > takes >> > up slack and allows me to still do wide range shifting in front? >> >> > I realize this is a bit complicated (due to rear spacing and lack of >> > derailleur hanger in rear) and I'm trying to research it myself, but any >> > pointers would be appreciated if it's not too much trouble. >> >> You've already done most of the heavy lifting on that system. >> >> Since you are sticking with a coastable setup, there shouldn't really be >> that much of an issue. You really just have the same setup, with differing >> ratios which don't change any chain tension or angle. >> >> There is the spacing issue - 120 mm, which may nix the Shimano 3 speed (and >> I think those were coaster brake models, but I'm not sure). But, S-A stuff >> can be found that way, to be sure. There's probably no reason you couldn't >> run a 7 or 8 speed hub, if it was spaced correctly. >> >> It would be problematic to run the derailleur with a fixed hub like the S-A >> S3X. Derailleurs/tensioning devices and fixed setups are generally thought >> to be Bad Ideas. AASHTA >> -http://www.sheldonbrown.com/singlespeed.html#tension >> >> You're really just using the arm of the rear derailleur for tension. And >> for the range you are running, I don't think you could drop back to a Paul >> Melvin. But, if you widen your gearing aft, maybe you could run narrower up >> front... >> >> (For those looking to mount a derailleur on a tab-less fork end, you just >> need to find one of these - http://tinyurl.com/derhanger) >> >> It seems like you are really most of the way there, right now. >> >> - Jim >> >> -- >> Jim Edgar >> cyclofi...@earthlink.net >> >> Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries -http://www.cyclofiend.com >> Current Classics - Cross Bikes >> Singlespeed - Working Bikes >> >> Gallery updates now appear here -http://cyclofiend.blogspot.com >> >> "Maybe a bike, once discarded, pines away year after year for the first hand >> that steered it, and as it grows old it dreams, in its bike way, of the >> young roads." >> >> -- Robert McCammon, "Boy's Life&quo
[RBW] Re: Internal 3-speed QB question
The Sturmey S3X is supposed to accept threaded freewheels as well as splined cogs. They come in 120mm spacing, and some sexy colors (not green). The "Quickbeam Supertype" setup would be an S3X and a Schlumpf, of course... Philip Williamson www.biketinker.com On Sep 20, 10:39 pm, CycloFiend wrote: > on 9/20/10 9:45 PM, James Warren at jimcwar...@earthlink.net wrote: > > > > > I'm looking for information on Shimano 3-speed internal hubs with the > > following idea in mind. In the following pictures: > > >http://www.cyclofiend.com/Images/rbw/rr36_pg27.jpg > > > the rear derailleur shown is not functioning as a rear derailleur. There is > > no > > cable attached, and the derailleur is only there to take up a lot of slack > > so > > that I can have vastly different chainrings up front shifted with a front > > derailleur. Right now, the bike has three rings in front, 24-36-48, so the > > bike has three gears total. (In the photo, there are two gears with a > > pants-guard. This set-up has worked fine whether as a 1-speed or 2.) > > What I would like to do is get a bit of gear-shifting in the back through > > use > > of an internal 3-speed hub. I would like to make the bike an internal > > shifter > > in the rear but still retain its 3-chainring derailleur system in the front, > > for a total of 9 gears (3x3). Is there any reason that I couldn't use an > > internal 3-speed hub, like Shimano's, but while using this hub, still have > > it > > work with the dummy derailleur mounted as shown in the photos so that it > > takes > > up slack and allows me to still do wide range shifting in front? > > > I realize this is a bit complicated (due to rear spacing and lack of > > derailleur hanger in rear) and I'm trying to research it myself, but any > > pointers would be appreciated if it's not too much trouble. > > You've already done most of the heavy lifting on that system. > > Since you are sticking with a coastable setup, there shouldn't really be > that much of an issue. You really just have the same setup, with differing > ratios which don't change any chain tension or angle. > > There is the spacing issue - 120 mm, which may nix the Shimano 3 speed (and > I think those were coaster brake models, but I'm not sure). But, S-A stuff > can be found that way, to be sure. There's probably no reason you couldn't > run a 7 or 8 speed hub, if it was spaced correctly. > > It would be problematic to run the derailleur with a fixed hub like the S-A > S3X. Derailleurs/tensioning devices and fixed setups are generally thought > to be Bad Ideas. AASHTA -http://www.sheldonbrown.com/singlespeed.html#tension > > You're really just using the arm of the rear derailleur for tension. And > for the range you are running, I don't think you could drop back to a Paul > Melvin. But, if you widen your gearing aft, maybe you could run narrower up > front... > > (For those looking to mount a derailleur on a tab-less fork end, you just > need to find one of these - http://tinyurl.com/derhanger) > > It seems like you are really most of the way there, right now. > > - Jim > > -- > Jim Edgar > cyclofi...@earthlink.net > > Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries -http://www.cyclofiend.com > Current Classics - Cross Bikes > Singlespeed - Working Bikes > > Gallery updates now appear here -http://cyclofiend.blogspot.com > > "Maybe a bike, once discarded, pines away year after year for the first hand > that steered it, and as it grows old it dreams, in its bike way, of the > young roads." > > -- Robert McCammon, "Boy's Life" -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Internal 3-speed QB question
I want these brought back into production: http://tiny.cc/ova8n Patrick "if I multispeed a ss, I'll use a derailleur setup; that's what they're made for" Moore On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 8:12 AM, Montclair BobbyB wrote: > Jim: > > FWIW the SRAM S7 and P5 have narrower spacing, and I believe you may > tweak the spacers to fit a 120mm (but not sure); I built up a P5 wheel > for my wife's 1985 Stumpjumper, which has 126mm rear spacing. Nice > hub, although a bit spendy and not the easiest to find, whereas there > seems to be an abundance of older Sturmey Archer 3-speed hubs. > > Good luck!! > BB > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Internal 3-speed QB question
Jim: FWIW the SRAM S7 and P5 have narrower spacing, and I believe you may tweak the spacers to fit a 120mm (but not sure); I built up a P5 wheel for my wife's 1985 Stumpjumper, which has 126mm rear spacing. Nice hub, although a bit spendy and not the easiest to find, whereas there seems to be an abundance of older Sturmey Archer 3-speed hubs. Good luck!! BB On Sep 21, 9:40 am, James Warren wrote: > Thanks Jim. That helps a lot. I think I saw a narrow-spaced Shimano on their > site. I know I ran across the Shimano 3-speed type made for coaster brakes a > lot. Sure coasting good, but coaster brakes - no. I haven't looked into > Sturmey Archer yet, but I will. > > I like the bolt-on derailleur hanger from Loose Screws. Even though I already > have one of those hanger-not-needed derailleurs mounted in the frame, I might > try that hanger. > > I'll post photos when I finally get this thing going. I was hoping to have it > by October 2, but that's a longshot. > > -Jim W. > > > > -Original Message- > >From: CycloFiend > >Sent: Sep 20, 2010 10:39 PM > >To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com > >Subject: Re: [RBW] Internal 3-speed QB question > > >on 9/20/10 9:45 PM, James Warren at jimcwar...@earthlink.net wrote: > >> I'm looking for information on Shimano 3-speed internal hubs with the > >> following idea in mind. In the following pictures: > > >>http://www.cyclofiend.com/Images/rbw/rr36_pg27.jpg > > >> the rear derailleur shown is not functioning as a rear derailleur. There > >> is no > >> cable attached, and the derailleur is only there to take up a lot of slack > >> so > >> that I can have vastly different chainrings up front shifted with a front > >> derailleur. Right now, the bike has three rings in front, 24-36-48, so the > >> bike has three gears total. (In the photo, there are two gears with a > >> pants-guard. This set-up has worked fine whether as a 1-speed or 2.) > >> What I would like to do is get a bit of gear-shifting in the back through > >> use > >> of an internal 3-speed hub. I would like to make the bike an internal > >> shifter > >> in the rear but still retain its 3-chainring derailleur system in the > >> front, > >> for a total of 9 gears (3x3). Is there any reason that I couldn't use an > >> internal 3-speed hub, like Shimano's, but while using this hub, still have > >> it > >> work with the dummy derailleur mounted as shown in the photos so that it > >> takes > >> up slack and allows me to still do wide range shifting in front? > > >> I realize this is a bit complicated (due to rear spacing and lack of > >> derailleur hanger in rear) and I'm trying to research it myself, but any > >> pointers would be appreciated if it's not too much trouble. > > >You've already done most of the heavy lifting on that system. > > >Since you are sticking with a coastable setup, there shouldn't really be > >that much of an issue. You really just have the same setup, with differing > >ratios which don't change any chain tension or angle. > > >There is the spacing issue - 120 mm, which may nix the Shimano 3 speed (and > >I think those were coaster brake models, but I'm not sure). But, S-A stuff > >can be found that way, to be sure. There's probably no reason you couldn't > >run a 7 or 8 speed hub, if it was spaced correctly. > > >It would be problematic to run the derailleur with a fixed hub like the S-A > >S3X. Derailleurs/tensioning devices and fixed setups are generally thought > >to be Bad Ideas. AASHTA - > >http://www.sheldonbrown.com/singlespeed.html#tension > > >You're really just using the arm of the rear derailleur for tension. And > >for the range you are running, I don't think you could drop back to a Paul > >Melvin. But, if you widen your gearing aft, maybe you could run narrower up > >front... > > >(For those looking to mount a derailleur on a tab-less fork end, you just > >need to find one of these - http://tinyurl.com/derhanger) > > >It seems like you are really most of the way there, right now. > > >- Jim > > >-- > >Jim Edgar > >cyclofi...@earthlink.net > > >Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries -http://www.cyclofiend.com > >Current Classics - Cross Bikes > >Singlespeed - Working Bikes > > >Gallery updates now appear here -http://cyclofiend.blogspot.com > > >"Maybe a bike, once discarded, pines away year after year for the first hand > >that steered it, and as it grows old it dreams, in its bike way, of the > >young roads." > > >-- Robert McCammon, "Boy's Life" > > >-- > >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > >"RBW Owners Bunch" group. > >To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. > >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > >For more options, visit this group > >athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW
Re: [RBW] Re: Internal 3-speed QB question
Thanks Bobby, That's good to know. I would love to try the 8-speed Alfine, but I don't think it will fit in the QB's 120 mm space in back, and I'm trying to avoid spreading the frame. The 3-speed on the other hand could have a 120 spacing and with my 3 chainrings shifting, I'd still get a good gear range if it all works. I too wanted to try the Alfine tensioner, but it appears that it attaches to a frame's rear derailleur hanger which the QB lacks. So I'm thinking of just continuing to use the dummy rear derailleur I have on there now. Do you know if they have an Alfine tensioner that doesn't need a derailleur hanger like rear derailleurs that clamp inside the dropouts? I didn't consider that too small a ring up front could create too much torque for the internals of the hub. What two chainring sizes did you use? In wonder if my plan to use a 24tooth granny in front would cause a problem. The whole point of this project is to try to get a low as low as 24F-28R. Basically, I love how the QB rides, bit I don't like single-speeds. I'm trying to get the QB ride with the abilities of a multi-gear shifter. I've succeeded in having it be a wide-ranging 3x1, but now I'm getting greedy, because my current lowest low is 24F-22R. It's weird. I have other great bikes, a few Rivendells even, that I'm really happy with, but there is just something about that Quickbeam. Thanks again, Jim -Original Message- >From: Montclair BobbyB >Sent: Sep 20, 2010 10:03 PM >To: RBW Owners Bunch >Subject: [RBW] Re: Internal 3-speed QB question > >Jim: > >I actually did something similar this past winter, except with an 8- >speed Shimano Alfine internal-geared hub and a front derailleur (to >run a 2x8 setup). I used the Alfine chain tensioner (which costs >about $25 and the spring is super strong, ensuring good chain tension >with the front derailleur shifts. I actually had a triple crank, but >stuck to using 2 of the 3 chainrings in the front (use of the small >crank would have produced a gear so low it could climb a tree and >would over-torque the internals of the hub (according to Shimano). >Having use of the outer chainring provided a nice range of cruising >gears. I'm sure this 3-speed setup will work just fine, and if you've >got a derailleur to spare, great. Otherwise consider the Alfine >tensioner... it's the best one I've used, and I've tried a few. (And >BTW the Alfine hub is superior to any other internal geared hub I've >owned, from Sturmey-Archer to SRAM to Shimano Nexus... The Alfine is >the best. > >Peace, >BB > >On Sep 21, 12:45 am, James Warren wrote: >> Dear RBW Owners Bunch, >> I'm looking for information on Shimano 3-speed internal hubs with the >> following idea in mind. In the following pictures: >> >> http://www.cyclofiend.com/Images/rbw/rr36_pg27.jpg >> >> the rear derailleur shown is not functioning as a rear derailleur. There is >> no cable attached, and the derailleur is only there to take up a lot of >> slack so that I can have vastly different chainrings up front shifted with a >> front derailleur. Right now, the bike has three rings in front, 24-36-48, so >> the bike has three gears total. (In the photo, there are two gears with a >> pants-guard. This set-up has worked fine whether as a 1-speed or 2.) >> What I would like to do is get a bit of gear-shifting in the back through >> use of an internal 3-speed hub. I would like to make the bike an internal >> shifter in the rear but still retain its 3-chainring derailleur system in >> the front, for a total of 9 gears (3x3). Is there any reason that I couldn't >> use an internal 3-speed hub, like Shimano's, but while using this hub, still >> have it work with the dummy derailleur mounted as shown in the photos so >> that it takes up slack and allows me to still do wide range shifting in >> front? >> >> I realize this is a bit complicated (due to rear spacing and lack of >> derailleur hanger in rear) and I'm trying to research it myself, but any >> pointers would be appreciated if it's not too much trouble. >> >> Thanks, >> Jim W. > >-- >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW >Owners Bunch" group. >To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >For more options, visit this group at >http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Internal 3-speed QB question
Jim: I actually did something similar this past winter, except with an 8- speed Shimano Alfine internal-geared hub and a front derailleur (to run a 2x8 setup). I used the Alfine chain tensioner (which costs about $25 and the spring is super strong, ensuring good chain tension with the front derailleur shifts. I actually had a triple crank, but stuck to using 2 of the 3 chainrings in the front (use of the small crank would have produced a gear so low it could climb a tree and would over-torque the internals of the hub (according to Shimano). Having use of the outer chainring provided a nice range of cruising gears. I'm sure this 3-speed setup will work just fine, and if you've got a derailleur to spare, great. Otherwise consider the Alfine tensioner... it's the best one I've used, and I've tried a few. (And BTW the Alfine hub is superior to any other internal geared hub I've owned, from Sturmey-Archer to SRAM to Shimano Nexus... The Alfine is the best. Peace, BB On Sep 21, 12:45 am, James Warren wrote: > Dear RBW Owners Bunch, > I'm looking for information on Shimano 3-speed internal hubs with the > following idea in mind. In the following pictures: > > http://www.cyclofiend.com/Images/rbw/rr36_pg27.jpg > > the rear derailleur shown is not functioning as a rear derailleur. There is > no cable attached, and the derailleur is only there to take up a lot of slack > so that I can have vastly different chainrings up front shifted with a front > derailleur. Right now, the bike has three rings in front, 24-36-48, so the > bike has three gears total. (In the photo, there are two gears with a > pants-guard. This set-up has worked fine whether as a 1-speed or 2.) > What I would like to do is get a bit of gear-shifting in the back through use > of an internal 3-speed hub. I would like to make the bike an internal shifter > in the rear but still retain its 3-chainring derailleur system in the front, > for a total of 9 gears (3x3). Is there any reason that I couldn't use an > internal 3-speed hub, like Shimano's, but while using this hub, still have it > work with the dummy derailleur mounted as shown in the photos so that it > takes up slack and allows me to still do wide range shifting in front? > > I realize this is a bit complicated (due to rear spacing and lack of > derailleur hanger in rear) and I'm trying to research it myself, but any > pointers would be appreciated if it's not too much trouble. > > Thanks, > Jim W. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
