[RBW] Re: RBW Saddle Height question
On Apr 21, 12:14 am, RM wrote: > On Apr 20, 2010, at 10:19 PM, happyriding wrote: > Hi, Thanks for the response. > > On Apr 20, 10:09 am, RM wrote: > Besides establishing a better position on the bike for increasing my power > output ability, I also came away no longer suffering from shoulder blade area > pain on long rides. I do not know if he is still personally doing bike fits, > but he is still listed on staff at the Boulder Center for Sports Medicine. > Any one specific thing you can attribute to solving your shoulder aches? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: RBW Saddle Height question
On Apr 20, 2010, at 10:19 PM, happyriding wrote: > On Apr 20, 10:09 am, RM wrote: >> My PBH: 87cm, SH: 76cm. 11cm difference >> >> My saddle height was established 10 years ago during two training camps and >> bike fits at the Boulder Center for Sports Medicine with Dr Andy Pruitt and >> has been spot on for my comfort ever since. There is no black magic to >> Rivendell's fit formula, it's about right in the center of what works for >> most people's bio-geometry. >> > > I wonder if you could give some more details. I almost went to get > fit by Dr. Andy Pruitt many years ago. Did you have aches and pains > that went away after the fit? Does he still do fittings? > My bike-fit/lactate-threshold/VO2-Max sessions with Dr Pruitt were in conjunction with Carpenter/Phinney camps in 2000 and 2002. Besides establishing a better position on the bike for increasing my power output ability, I also came away no longer suffering from shoulder blade area pain on long rides. I do not know if he is still personally doing bike fits, but he is still listed on staff at the Boulder Center for Sports Medicine. Hope this helps, Rob -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: RBW Saddle Height question
On Apr 20, 10:09 am, RM wrote: > My PBH: 87cm, SH: 76cm. 11cm difference > > My saddle height was established 10 years ago during two training camps and > bike fits at the Boulder Center for Sports Medicine with Dr Andy Pruitt and > has been spot on for my comfort ever since. There is no black magic to > Rivendell's fit formula, it's about right in the center of what works for > most people's bio-geometry. > I wonder if you could give some more details. I almost went to get fit by Dr. Andy Pruitt many years ago. Did you have aches and pains that went away after the fit? Does he still do fittings? Thanks. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: RBW Saddle Height question
pbh: 91.5 saddle height: currently 83cm I tend to move my saddle height around between 83cm-84cm depending on how my knees are feeling. Last year, I was recovering from a broken leg, and I had to lower it a bit to 83cm. >How many of you use this formula? Not me. I wasn't aware of it. My difference is 8.5-9.5 cm. > Do you > adjust it if you place the saddle all the way back on its rails? > (Relateddon't laugh...where does one measure the top of the > saddle...the area where you sit, the area right over the seat post?< If you think about it, ramming your saddle as far back as it will go is the same as having a bike with a slacker/shallower/lower-number- numerically seat tube angle with the saddle centered on the rails. So I suggest you measure from the center of the BB to the place where you sit on the saddle--not along the seat tube. The idea is to set the reach for your legs, so the location of the seat tube is irrelevant. Be careful adjusting your saddle height. The recommendation is to do it in small increments. If you feel pain in the back of your knee, which can feel like you pulled a muscle in the back of your leg, the saddle is too high. Alternately, if you feel pain or tendonitis in the front of your knee, the saddle is too low. An ad hock rule is usually just an average. Whether the average works for you or not, you'll have to see. If you are just starting to cycle, then you have to start somewhere. Then pay attention to how your knees feel and adjust from there. As Tim McNamara pointed out, what I've heard termed as 'ankling' plays a role as well. Do you naturally pedal with your toes pointed down, i.e. with your heel higher then your toes, or with your feet parallel to the ground? I don't think there is a correct way--just different natural tendencies. Obviously, if you point your toes down, your saddle will be higher than your twin's saddle if he pedals with his feet flat. If you were interested in achieving maximum power output, you could go to a professional fitter, and they could hook you up to a Compu- Trainer and then measure power output with various positions, saddle heights, and fore-aft cleat adjustments. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: RBW Saddle Height question
PBH=94 cm, SH=83.5 cm at point of sit bones on B17 slammed all the way back on seat post on my Sam Hill. I like to use the method of putting the heels of your bare feet on the pedals and setting seat height when your leg is fully extended at 6:00 position. For me, this works out to PBH- 10-11 cm and it automatically takes into account any changes is seat fore/aft and seat angle. -Mike -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: RBW Saddle Height question
Hi all: Thanks for the responses and the clarifications. I will try to raise my saddle gradually and just test how I feel. Again, I appreciate the thoughtful responses. Jay On Apr 20, 6:14 pm, James Dinneen wrote: > PBH minus 10, measured to the top of the saddle works great for me. > Jim D. Massachusetts > > --- On Tue, 4/20/10, Jay LePree wrote: > > From: Jay LePree > Subject: [RBW] RBW Saddle Height question > To: "RBW Owners Bunch" > Date: Tuesday, April 20, 2010, 7:46 AM > > Hi all: > > One of the things I always wanted to know but was afraid to ask. The > RBW method for determining saddle height is PBH - 10 to 11. The > measurement is made from center of the cranks (the spindle of the > bottom bracket) to the top of the saddle. > > Here are the questions. How many of you use this formula? Do you > adjust it if you place the saddle all the way back on its rails? > (Relateddon't laugh...where does one measure the top of the > saddle...the area where you sit, the area right over the seat post?) > > I ask because my saddle height seems to be shorter than this (with MKS > pedals and Addidas Sambas)..more like PBH - 15. I would like to raise > it to Riv recommendations, but I was wondering what your experiences > have been. > > Regards, > > Jay > Demarest, NJ > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group > athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group > athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: RBW Saddle Height question
My PBH: 87cm, SH: 76cm. 11cm difference My saddle height was established 10 years ago during two training camps and bike fits at the Boulder Center for Sports Medicine with Dr Andy Pruitt and has been spot on for my comfort ever since. There is no black magic to Rivendell's fit formula, it's about right in the center of what works for most people's bio-geometry. Rob -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: RBW Saddle Height question
PBH: 91cm, SH: 80cm. I have four bikes and the saddle is at the same height on all of them. I ride two of the bikes with platform pedals and two with SPDs. Like others have said, the RBW system is a great starting place and get definitely get you close to where you want to be. Good luck. --mike -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: RBW Saddle Height question
Works well for me: PBH: 89cm, Saddle Height 79cm. If I go through all the "LeMond formulas" (which I believe came from a French cycling team he road for early on) I end up at 79cm. Angus On Apr 20, 6:46 am, Jay LePree wrote: > Hi all: > > One of the things I always wanted to know but was afraid to ask. The > RBW method for determining saddle height is PBH - 10 to 11. The > measurement is made from center of the cranks (the spindle of the > bottom bracket) to the top of the saddle. > > Here are the questions. How many of you use this formula? Do you > adjust it if you place the saddle all the way back on its rails? > (Relateddon't laugh...where does one measure the top of the > saddle...the area where you sit, the area right over the seat post?) > > I ask because my saddle height seems to be shorter than this (with MKS > pedals and Addidas Sambas)..more like PBH - 15. I would like to raise > it to Riv recommendations, but I was wondering what your experiences > have been. > > Regards, > > Jay > Demarest, NJ > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group > athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: RBW Saddle Height question
It worked perfectly for me; 89.2 PBH and settled on a saddle height of 79.3. On Apr 20, 5:46 am, Jay LePree wrote: > Hi all: > > One of the things I always wanted to know but was afraid to ask. The > RBW method for determining saddle height is PBH - 10 to 11. The > measurement is made from center of the cranks (the spindle of the > bottom bracket) to the top of the saddle. > > Here are the questions. How many of you use this formula? Do you > adjust it if you place the saddle all the way back on its rails? > (Relateddon't laugh...where does one measure the top of the > saddle...the area where you sit, the area right over the seat post?) > > I ask because my saddle height seems to be shorter than this (with MKS > pedals and Addidas Sambas)..more like PBH - 15. I would like to raise > it to Riv recommendations, but I was wondering what your experiences > have been. > > Regards, > > Jay > Demarest, NJ > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group > athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: RBW Saddle Height question
>From the other side of the range... My PBH is 86 but a SH somewhere around 72.5-73cm works best for me. I always measure on the centerline even though I'm one of those long femured people who slides the saddle back, even with 71.5 degree SA's. I have had bike fitting done as well and their recommendation is always higher than my hamstrings can handle. ~Mike~ On Apr 20, 7:01 am, Tim McNamara wrote: > On Apr 20, 2010, at 6:46 AM, Jay LePree wrote: > > > Hi all: > > > One of the things I always wanted to know but was afraid to ask. The > > RBW method for determining saddle height is PBH - 10 to 11. > > There's a lot of variation in this and a lot of factors (e.g., how > far your saddle is pushed back), whether you pedal toe down, heel > down or foot about level, etc. Your flexibility is also an issue. > So is the relative strength of different muscle groups. Bike fit is > a dynamic rather than static thing. Just measuring lengths, which > most "scientific" fitting systems do, is not enough. > > Through years of trial and error adjustments, reading lots of things > on the topic, etc., I have arrived at a saddle height that is PBH > -9.5 cm. > > My advice is raise the saddle until your hips start rocking and then > lower it a bit. Move it fore and aft until your weight distribution > between the saddle and the handlebars is comfortable. Then do the > measurements. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group > athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: RBW Saddle Height question
I found that Rivendell's formula SH - 10 or 11 puts the seat a tad low for me. My experience has been PBH - 9.0 cm.I'm also positive I'm not under-measuring my pbh, as I've measured it myself with one other person, pulled up until it hurt, had it done at the LBS and it's always the same (or below my biggest measurement). I find that my knees are pretty sensitive to a seat that's too low, even by 1 or 2 cm, unless I'm riding standing out of the saddle all the time. Other potentially influencing data points for my SH: -MKS touring pedals -usually ride in a pair of sneakers -size 10 -do not ride on my toes -brooks b17/nitto crystal fellow If the fronts of your knees feel sore after a ride, a good first thing to check is your seat height, to make sure it's not too low. I've read that a good method for finding the sweet spot is to set the saddle too high (which in terms of rideability, is impossible to ignore even for short distances) and incrementally lower it until you can ride the bike normally. Matt On Apr 20, 8:32 am, Bruce wrote: > Jay: > > After numerous saddle tweaks, I found that all my saddles ended up at 67 cm > in height from the BB center, and my PBH is 78, so I'd say the Riv formula > works really well for me. I measure through the center-line of the seat post. > Moving the saddle back or forward changes the measurement due to the angle I > pitch the saddle at, so yes, I have to raise or lower the seat post if I > slide the saddle around. Also, if I wear thick soled shoes (like KSwiss > hikers), I have to raise the saddle for efficient pedaling. My standard is > based on Addidas Sambas, or my Summer sandals (Teva and Nike) which have the > same sole thickness. > > Rather than tune your saddle to numbers on the riv site, you might try small > changes in height to see where the sweet spot is for you. That's giving you > an efficient stroke (you feel all the leg power going into the pedals when > climbing or accelerating) and you have no pain in front and above your knees > or just behind your knees. Then see how your numbers compare. You can of > course just try the riv suggestions and see how they go, and tweak from > there. small increments though regardless. > > Bruce > > > From: Jay LePree > To: RBW Owners Bunch > Sent: Tue, April 20, 2010 6:46:17 AM > Subject: [RBW] RBW Saddle Height question > > Hi all: > > The RBW method for determining saddle height is PBH - 10 to 11. > > How many of you use this formula? > Do youadjust it if you place the saddle all the way back on its rails? > (Relateddon't laugh...where does one measure the top of the > saddle...the area where you sit, the area right over the seat post?) > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group > athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: RBW Saddle Height question
The formula is spot on for me. PBH 81.5 SH 71. I check it by putting the heel of my foot on the pedal with that crank rotated to about 6 or 7 o'clock; if my leg is fairly straight and my hips don't rock up/down while trying to keep my heel on the pedal, then the saddle height is about right for me. This rough check works well for me. Finer adjustments are just by feel. On Apr 20, 8:32 am, Bruce wrote: > Jay: > > After numerous saddle tweaks, I found that all my saddles ended up at 67 cm > in height from the BB center, and my PBH is 78, so I'd say the Riv formula > works really well for me. I measure through the center-line of the seat post. > Moving the saddle back or forward changes the measurement due to the angle I > pitch the saddle at, so yes, I have to raise or lower the seat post if I > slide the saddle around. Also, if I wear thick soled shoes (like KSwiss > hikers), I have to raise the saddle for efficient pedaling. My standard is > based on Addidas Sambas, or my Summer sandals (Teva and Nike) which have the > same sole thickness. > > Rather than tune your saddle to numbers on the riv site, you might try small > changes in height to see where the sweet spot is for you. That's giving you > an efficient stroke (you feel all the leg power going into the pedals when > climbing or accelerating) and you have no pain in front and above your knees > or just behind your knees. Then see how your numbers compare. You can of > course just try the riv suggestions and see how they go, and tweak from > there. small increments though regardless. > > Bruce > > > From: Jay LePree > To: RBW Owners Bunch > Sent: Tue, April 20, 2010 6:46:17 AM > Subject: [RBW] RBW Saddle Height question > > Hi all: > > The RBW method for determining saddle height is PBH - 10 to 11. > > How many of you use this formula? > Do youadjust it if you place the saddle all the way back on its rails? > (Relateddon't laugh...where does one measure the top of the > saddle...the area where you sit, the area right over the seat post?) > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group > athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: RBW Saddle Height question
On Apr 20, 2010, at 6:46 AM, Jay LePree wrote: Hi all: One of the things I always wanted to know but was afraid to ask. The RBW method for determining saddle height is PBH - 10 to 11. There's a lot of variation in this and a lot of factors (e.g., how far your saddle is pushed back), whether you pedal toe down, heel down or foot about level, etc. Your flexibility is also an issue. So is the relative strength of different muscle groups. Bike fit is a dynamic rather than static thing. Just measuring lengths, which most "scientific" fitting systems do, is not enough. Through years of trial and error adjustments, reading lots of things on the topic, etc., I have arrived at a saddle height that is PBH -9.5 cm. My advice is raise the saddle until your hips start rocking and then lower it a bit. Move it fore and aft until your weight distribution between the saddle and the handlebars is comfortable. Then do the measurements. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
