[RBW] Re: Thumbies vs BEs
our '95 trek tandem is the only bike I have Campy ergoshifters on. Trying to keep the wife happy, steer this battleship and stay safe takes concentration. I run the Shimergo setup with 10 speed Campy shifters and an 8 speed Shimano cassette. ~mike -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/_LyWKAZP2hMJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Thumbies vs BEs
Yup, I could do that. I set up the tandem to match my singles,which all have the bars about 2 cm below the seat. I find this a nice compromise for a reach to the drop and control of the bike when I stand up. But since my stoker doesn't like to stand up I could raise the bars a bit. It's an ahead set up, but i left two spacers above the stem for this eventuality. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/kwk7KQ1vm1EJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Thumbies vs BEs
Why not raise the bars so the drops become a more comfortable and more controlled-feeling option? On most of my bikes I have ridden on the hoods most of the time because the bars were always on the low end of the acceptable range. On my Sam I jacked up the bars to accommodate a stem-mounted child seat, and now find myself riding the drops a lot more, and enjoying it. In MHO, BEs give the fastest double shifts and suffer the least from fatigue and soreness issues, though Campy Ergo isn't bad, either. Right now I have BEs on 4 out of 5 bikes, and rapid fire shifters on the mtn tandem, which will probably be replaced by BEs at some point. I have had Ergos on two bikes and liked them. Another couple of arcane options: Kelly Take-offs or Suntour Command Shifters (my ex had them, and I liked them, but they do require thumb force, and I'd say they are slower than BEs). I think BEs rock, though my next project will have DTs (first DTs EVER for me; I reserve the right to convert them to BEs later). Good luck, Gernot On Jun 24, 7:04 pm, MichaelH wrote: > Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. Between this list and the > tandem list I have gotten a number of good suggestions. > > First, I have used chain stoppers in the past but somehow had > forgotten about them, but adding one to the tandem could solve at > least one problem. I am also grateful for the observation that > thumbies can cause some thumb fatigue on extended rides. Since we are > about to set off on a 240 mile sojourn in Quebec, this probably isn't > the time to do that. Besides, one of the best things about BE is the > ergonomics, which far exceeds brifters and even DTs. Besides it > reminded me of why I have never considered them in the past. On a > single I do 60 % of my riding on or just behind the hoods and 30% on > the drops, I only occasionally use the center of the bars, so thumbies > wouldn't really be all that convenient for me. On the tandem I'm on > the hoods 80% of the time. > > I am also considering a moved to ramped and pinned rings. I have not > found them to be all that beneficial on a single, but some people on > the tandem list recommend them. Tandems put an enormous amount of > pressure on the drive train and I have managed to train my stoker to > know that when I say I'm going to drop the ring, she needs to let up > on the pedals, but it's easy to get in a situation and discover that > the gear you thought would take you to the top, wont, and we're > pushing hard to keep going. When we bought the tandem I outfitted it > with a good used DaVinci tandem crank ( a great crank, btw, I have one > on my single touring bike too) and then put some used Shimano 600 > rings, a 50/36/26, setup. I think I could probably do less shifting > with a 53/39/28, but want to think about that. > > Steve and Joe have pointed out, quite correctly that BE's do shift > very rapidly when you have both hands on the drops. But, I have two > caveats. Our riding tends to be, as I wrote, on rural back roads, > about half of which are dirt. We're not out for speed, but rather > enjoying the country side, and so that tends to keep me up on the > hoods. Of course I could train myself to ride the drops more when I'm > in the hills, but that is most of Vt! Second a tandem is not like a > single. Ours is quite long, with two long TTs and long chain stays to > accommodate panniers. The two riders, the bike, water, and a couple of > small bags, tools, and a pair of jackets brings the total weight up to > about 385 lbs. When you're barreling along a dirt road or a broken > section of chip and seal, the added sense of control from being on the > hoods is quite welcome. Tandems really like to mostly go in a > straight line, until the stoker starts squirming around! > > Finally, for the suggestion that I go over to the dark side. If all > else fails I will consider brifters, probably campy and either add the > jtec shiftmate, or convert the White hub. > > keep the rubber side down, > michael, > westford, vt > > On Jun 24, 12:00 am, Joe Bernard wrote: > > > > > Yep, that's my question, too. The easiest double-shift I've ever done > > is riding the hoods, then quickly dropping both hands to the bar-ends, > > snapping off that shift, then back to the hoods. > > > On Jun 23, 2:29 pm, Steve Palincsar wrote: > > > > On Thu, 2011-06-23 at 06:20 -0700, MichaelH wrote: > > > > The long cables, long rear derailleur cage, > > > > and the need to move each separately from the shifter back to the bar > > > > before I can reach for the other shifter causes too much delay and I > > > > end up with too much pressure to drop the chain, or I shift early and > > > > we end up spinning wildly, or even dropping the chain all together. > > > > I can shift left and right bar end shifters simultaneously, using both > > > hands, holding on to the bar ends themselves. Are you saying you can > > > only shift one hand at a time? -- You received this message because you are subs
[RBW] Re: Thumbies vs BEs
Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. Between this list and the tandem list I have gotten a number of good suggestions. First, I have used chain stoppers in the past but somehow had forgotten about them, but adding one to the tandem could solve at least one problem. I am also grateful for the observation that thumbies can cause some thumb fatigue on extended rides. Since we are about to set off on a 240 mile sojourn in Quebec, this probably isn't the time to do that. Besides, one of the best things about BE is the ergonomics, which far exceeds brifters and even DTs. Besides it reminded me of why I have never considered them in the past. On a single I do 60 % of my riding on or just behind the hoods and 30% on the drops, I only occasionally use the center of the bars, so thumbies wouldn't really be all that convenient for me. On the tandem I'm on the hoods 80% of the time. I am also considering a moved to ramped and pinned rings. I have not found them to be all that beneficial on a single, but some people on the tandem list recommend them. Tandems put an enormous amount of pressure on the drive train and I have managed to train my stoker to know that when I say I'm going to drop the ring, she needs to let up on the pedals, but it's easy to get in a situation and discover that the gear you thought would take you to the top, wont, and we're pushing hard to keep going. When we bought the tandem I outfitted it with a good used DaVinci tandem crank ( a great crank, btw, I have one on my single touring bike too) and then put some used Shimano 600 rings, a 50/36/26, setup. I think I could probably do less shifting with a 53/39/28, but want to think about that. Steve and Joe have pointed out, quite correctly that BE's do shift very rapidly when you have both hands on the drops. But, I have two caveats. Our riding tends to be, as I wrote, on rural back roads, about half of which are dirt. We're not out for speed, but rather enjoying the country side, and so that tends to keep me up on the hoods. Of course I could train myself to ride the drops more when I'm in the hills, but that is most of Vt! Second a tandem is not like a single. Ours is quite long, with two long TTs and long chain stays to accommodate panniers. The two riders, the bike, water, and a couple of small bags, tools, and a pair of jackets brings the total weight up to about 385 lbs. When you're barreling along a dirt road or a broken section of chip and seal, the added sense of control from being on the hoods is quite welcome. Tandems really like to mostly go in a straight line, until the stoker starts squirming around! Finally, for the suggestion that I go over to the dark side. If all else fails I will consider brifters, probably campy and either add the jtec shiftmate, or convert the White hub. keep the rubber side down, michael, westford, vt On Jun 24, 12:00 am, Joe Bernard wrote: > Yep, that's my question, too. The easiest double-shift I've ever done > is riding the hoods, then quickly dropping both hands to the bar-ends, > snapping off that shift, then back to the hoods. > > On Jun 23, 2:29 pm, Steve Palincsar wrote: > > > > > On Thu, 2011-06-23 at 06:20 -0700, MichaelH wrote: > > > The long cables, long rear derailleur cage, > > > and the need to move each separately from the shifter back to the bar > > > before I can reach for the other shifter causes too much delay and I > > > end up with too much pressure to drop the chain, or I shift early and > > > we end up spinning wildly, or even dropping the chain all together. > > > I can shift left and right bar end shifters simultaneously, using both > > hands, holding on to the bar ends themselves. Are you saying you can > > only shift one hand at a time? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Thumbies vs BEs
Yep, that's my question, too. The easiest double-shift I've ever done is riding the hoods, then quickly dropping both hands to the bar-ends, snapping off that shift, then back to the hoods. On Jun 23, 2:29 pm, Steve Palincsar wrote: > On Thu, 2011-06-23 at 06:20 -0700, MichaelH wrote: > > The long cables, long rear derailleur cage, > > and the need to move each separately from the shifter back to the bar > > before I can reach for the other shifter causes too much delay and I > > end up with too much pressure to drop the chain, or I shift early and > > we end up spinning wildly, or even dropping the chain all together. > > I can shift left and right bar end shifters simultaneously, using both > hands, holding on to the bar ends themselves. Are you saying you can > only shift one hand at a time? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Thumbies vs BEs
I use DA bar end friction shifters on our tandem without hardly any problems. Make sure that you have the bars high enough to be comfortable for long periods in the drops. How many teeth on your chainrings? We use (8sp) 53-42-30 x 11-32 and spend most of our time in the 42t. When preparing for hills i do a double shift to get in the correct front chainring while maintaining our cadence. We also try to crush it on the downhills to carry our momentum up the next hill; this takes off the pressure and gives me some time to get in the correct climbing gear. Also, try a rapid rise rear mech. I haven't trying brifters on our tandem, but if i did, I'd use campy ergo 10sp to shimano 8sp -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/-KM5xxT4svQJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Thumbies vs BEs
"Go to the Dark Side, Luke.": Brifters. On Jun 23, 9:20 am, MichaelH wrote: > I am considering a switch to thumbies on our tandem. I am finding the > BEs too slow on the tandem for the kind of rolling hills of Vt, which > require a lot of fast, double shifts to attack hills that often swing > from minus to plus 10%. The long cables, long rear derailleur cage, > and the need to move each separately from the shifter back to the bar > before I can reach for the other shifter causes too much delay and I > end up with too much pressure to drop the chain, or I shift early and > we end up spinning wildly, or even dropping the chain all together. > > Does anyone have any experience going from one to the other on a road > bike, that they can share. I suppose the other option is to ride more > on the drops, where I can reach the shifters faster. > > Michael > Westford, Vt -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Thumbies vs BEs
My only experience switching shifters is in the context of switching bars (roughly rotating through a set of four setups). Moustache bars make it easier to ride on the "drops". I love the bar- ends there. It's at least as fast for shifting as the thumbies on my Albatross and Bullmoose bars. My Noodles have thumbies near the stem on the top. I find them available but not as easy to operate as any of my other set ups. The angle of attack feels wrong. But I also haven't spent as much time with my Noodles, so I've always been in transition to a certain extent. Also, I have the Nitto F15/BarSack arrangement on my Noodles, which does clutter up the area a little. No real problems. Just not as easy or open as my other bars. Yours, Thomas Lynn Skean On Jun 23, 8:20 am, MichaelH wrote: > I am considering a switch to thumbies on our tandem. I am finding the > BEs too slow on the tandem for the kind of rolling hills of Vt, which > require a lot of fast, double shifts to attack hills that often swing > from minus to plus 10%. The long cables, long rear derailleur cage, > and the need to move each separately from the shifter back to the bar > before I can reach for the other shifter causes too much delay and I > end up with too much pressure to drop the chain, or I shift early and > we end up spinning wildly, or even dropping the chain all together. > > Does anyone have any experience going from one to the other on a road > bike, that they can share. I suppose the other option is to ride more > on the drops, where I can reach the shifters faster. > > Michael > Westford, Vt -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Thumbies vs BEs
My favorite feature of BE's on long rides is the ability to shift while holding a water bottle. You drink, you're swallowing, you want more, so you want to keep the bottle in your hand, but the grade changes, and you need to shift in between drinks while still holding the water bottle. However, this is just a tangential comment, because I guess you could do the same with thumbshifters. -Original Message- >From: Dave Craig >Sent: Jun 23, 2011 8:06 AM >To: RBW Owners Bunch >Subject: [RBW] Re: Thumbies vs BEs > >I do have experience with this change-including changes made to the >same bikes and my stable of bikes with DT shifters, BE's, brifters >and thumbies. > >There's no magic bullet. The issue is one of technique and >anticipation. On my touring bike, the closest approximation I have to >your situation with the tandem, my strategy for rolling hills is to >downshift just before or in the "valleys" then coast until I can spin >comfortably up the hill. On a loaded tourer, momentum is lost quickly. >I imagine the situation is the same on a tandem. At the top of the >hill, if I'm not simply going to coast down the other side, I upshift. >I seldom go into the big ring. This isn't racing technique, but it >works just fine for casual riding. > >I've found my preference for touring to be barend shifters. My left >thumb got really sore using thumbies on my last, long tour. > > > > > >On Jun 23, 6:20 am, MichaelH wrote: >> I am considering a switch to thumbies on our tandem. I am finding the >> BEs too slow on the tandem for the kind of rolling hills of Vt, which >> require a lot of fast, double shifts to attack hills that often swing >> from minus to plus 10%. The long cables, long rear derailleur cage, >> and the need to move each separately from the shifter back to the bar >> before I can reach for the other shifter causes too much delay and I >> end up with too much pressure to drop the chain, or I shift early and >> we end up spinning wildly, or even dropping the chain all together. >> >> Does anyone have any experience going from one to the other on a road >> bike, that they can share. I suppose the other option is to ride more >> on the drops, where I can reach the shifters faster. >> >> Michael >> Westford, Vt > >-- >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW >Owners Bunch" group. >To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >For more options, visit this group at >http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Thumbies vs BEs
I do have experience with this change-including changes made to the same bikes and my stable of bikes with DT shifters, BE's, brifters and thumbies. There's no magic bullet. The issue is one of technique and anticipation. On my touring bike, the closest approximation I have to your situation with the tandem, my strategy for rolling hills is to downshift just before or in the "valleys" then coast until I can spin comfortably up the hill. On a loaded tourer, momentum is lost quickly. I imagine the situation is the same on a tandem. At the top of the hill, if I'm not simply going to coast down the other side, I upshift. I seldom go into the big ring. This isn't racing technique, but it works just fine for casual riding. I've found my preference for touring to be barend shifters. My left thumb got really sore using thumbies on my last, long tour. On Jun 23, 6:20 am, MichaelH wrote: > I am considering a switch to thumbies on our tandem. I am finding the > BEs too slow on the tandem for the kind of rolling hills of Vt, which > require a lot of fast, double shifts to attack hills that often swing > from minus to plus 10%. The long cables, long rear derailleur cage, > and the need to move each separately from the shifter back to the bar > before I can reach for the other shifter causes too much delay and I > end up with too much pressure to drop the chain, or I shift early and > we end up spinning wildly, or even dropping the chain all together. > > Does anyone have any experience going from one to the other on a road > bike, that they can share. I suppose the other option is to ride more > on the drops, where I can reach the shifters faster. > > Michael > Westford, Vt -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
