[RBW] Re: Time to replace the Quickbeam Chain Again; Did I make a $16 mistake?
In Vt., we do lots of hills, my commute for example has two separate mile plus climbs and descents with 7-10% grades - in each direction. So I get plenty of opportunity to launch myself along in a 48/12. Smaller cogs like a 12 will hit each tooth much more often than the larger cogs. When I'm running the 48/12 I will be turning it over 4 time per pedal revolution whereas when I'm in a 34/24 it's only 1.4 times, and there are twice as many teeth to hit on each evolution. At least that's why I believe I always wear out the smaller cogs first. I wish it weren't so. I think of chains and cables as general wear items and like to start each season with new brake cables and a new or at least newish chain. Michael On Jun 9, 10:50 am, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: On Wed, 2010-06-09 at 07:34 -0700, MichaelH wrote: I clean the chain every couple of hundred miles, or sooner if I've gone through wet mud. I ride 10 miles of dirt roads almost every day, so even with fenders, my chains get dirty. I use the Park tool on my chains and find that I got about 1500 miles out of Shimano chains, so I consider 2500 - 3000 miles pretty good. Most mechanics, and all mfg. recommend chains be replaced at about 1500 miles. I don't often ride with a bike computer and don't keep any mileage log, but I know that I do about 3500 miles commuting each season, and have never pushed a chain longer than that. A worn chain will wear out the cogs much faster, and I find that if I push a chain too far, it will damage the 12 tooth cog enough to cause skipping. I also use two sets of wheels, so am using multiple cassettes and that might make a difference too. I think the dirt roads are the key here. I'm amazed that you wear out a 12T sprocket. I find 12s to be nearly useless except on tandems and if you have a 44T big ring -- and even there, you're in the top gear so infrequently a 12 tooth sprocket could be transferred from cassette to cassette a half dozen times or more without showing significant wear. For me, it's the ones in the middle of the block that get the wear. Recommending a chain replacement at 1500 miles irrespective of wear might be fine if you are in the business of selling chains, but unless that chain is actually worn it's just wasteful. If it is worn, of course replacement is in order. Chains are much less expensive than cassettes. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Time to replace the Quickbeam Chain Again; Did I make a $16 mistake?
On Fri, 2010-06-11 at 13:08 -0700, MichaelH wrote: In Vt., we do lots of hills, my commute for example has two separate mile plus climbs and descents with 7-10% grades - in each direction. So I get plenty of opportunity to launch myself along in a 48/12. Smaller cogs like a 12 will hit each tooth much more often than the larger cogs. When I'm running the 48/12 I will be turning it over 4 time per pedal revolution whereas when I'm in a 34/24 it's only 1.4 times, and there are twice as many teeth to hit on each evolution. At least that's why I believe I always wear out the smaller cogs first. I wish it weren't so. It's true that smaller sprockets wear faster than larger ones, all else being equal, for just the reason you cite. However, even counting those 7-10% descents, I'd be surprised if you were in the 48x12 long enough to create significant wear -- after all, even if you spin like crazy, how long before you spin out and start coasting? Not long, I'd imagine. And obviously, you don't use that 48x12 on the flats. So for most of us, the 12 doesn't get a whole lot of use -- that is, unless you're doing a lot of riding in the middle ring/smallest sprocket combination. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Time to replace the Quickbeam Chain Again; Did I make a $16 mistake?
Quoting MichaelH mhech...@gmail.com: I don't run a single speed, so maybe my thoughts are not relevant. I am also aware of Grant's point of view - a chain is just a chain. But, my experience is different. I have tried Shimano, SRAM and Connex chains and have found that the connex are worth the $35 I pay for them. I get the stainless steel ones(908??) and found they have three big advantages. First, they seem to last a long time. I measure the chain once a month or so and have found I can push these chains out to 2500 miles before they need to be replaced. Second, they hold up very well in wet conditions. I ride in a lot rain, especially while commuting, and don't want a chain that will rust and freeze after one good rain, even if I'm not through enough drying them right away. Third, the Connex quick links work much better than SRAM, which I find very difficult to open, and way better than Shimano's replacement link. I prefer silver chains because it's easier to look at them and know right away when they need to be cleaned, which I do about once a week. I have to admit I've never thought about the weight of a chain but know they make hollow pin chains for the super weight conscious racing crowd, but I've never felt a need to be that silly. I have no issue with silver chains -- I like them, too, although I've never had a stainless steel one -- and I like Connex links, although in my experience there's no difference in ease of opening compared with SRAM, they both work fine in my book. But I do have to wonder: 2500 miles isn't much mileage. How do you arrive at the conclusion that the chains need replacement? Is it based on measured wear? And what is your maintenance regimen? I ask because I just replaced a couple of chains, a 9 speed and a 7/88. Both had over 6,000 miles of wear and neither showed any elongation, either by ruler measurement or by the Park gauge. They'd both gotten extremely flexible from side to side, I'd lost a roller from the end of each, and on both bikes shifting (index on the 9, friction on the 7) had become sloppy. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Time to replace the Quickbeam Chain Again; Did I make a $16 mistake?
And bicycles are supposed to be, to my mind, just hefty enough, and no more, thank you. I think I have to exchange this chain for another...What say ye wise and geeky experts? Remember, it was $16. And I want to support my LBS in this land of the big box store. Exchange, or just wear it out? I guess you have to define what you mean by 'just hefty enough.' Last fall on a tour in Southwestern Wisconsin, about 12 miles from the nearest town - and another 25 from a town with a bike store - I road up on two cyclists with plastic bikes. The ultra light new fangled chain on one was broken in two places. I had a chain tool in my kit. We spent about 30 minutes trying to fix the chain to no avail. The second rider ultimately had to ride on his own back to the car. As I left, the rider with the broken bike told me from now on he would carry a spare chain. The moral is that if just hefty enough means having to carry two, then you probably have not accomplished much. On Jun 8, 11:30 pm, Bill Gibson bill.bgib...@gmail.com wrote: Ok, I am cross-posting this to get some advice...So, I needed a chain for the Quickbeam. Local bike shop offered a 9-speed 3/32 chain. I thought, hey, it's a singlespeed, sort of. I use a White Industries Enos Dos I got on ebay, so why not use a bigger, more durable chain. A BMX chain. The mech offers a KMC Koolchain 1/8, which is asymmetrical. There's an inside and an outside. Hmm. And I am looking at it at home, and hefting it (chains always seem heavier than expected off the bike). So, I realize, it's a little heavier than a wimpy derailleur chain, but is it unnecessarily so? I mean, it's the bushings I want to wear longer, not the side plates... And bicycles are supposed to be, to my mind, just hefty enough, and no more, thank you. I think I have to exchange this chain for another...What say ye wise and geeky experts? Remember, it was $16. And I want to support my LBS in this land of the big box store. Exchange, or just wear it out? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Time to replace the Quickbeam Chain Again; Did I make a $16 mistake?
I clean the chain every couple of hundred miles, or sooner if I've gone through wet mud. I ride 10 miles of dirt roads almost every day, so even with fenders, my chains get dirty. I use the Park tool on my chains and find that I got about 1500 miles out of Shimano chains, so I consider 2500 - 3000 miles pretty good. Most mechanics, and all mfg. recommend chains be replaced at about 1500 miles. I don't often ride with a bike computer and don't keep any mileage log, but I know that I do about 3500 miles commuting each season, and have never pushed a chain longer than that. A worn chain will wear out the cogs much faster, and I find that if I push a chain too far, it will damage the 12 tooth cog enough to cause skipping. I also use two sets of wheels, so am using multiple cassettes and that might make a difference too. michael On Jun 9, 10:18 am, palin...@his.com wrote: Quoting MichaelH mhech...@gmail.com: I don't run a single speed, so maybe my thoughts are not relevant. I am also aware of Grant's point of view - a chain is just a chain. But, my experience is different. I have tried Shimano, SRAM and Connex chains and have found that the connex are worth the $35 I pay for them. I get the stainless steel ones(908??) and found they have three big advantages. First, they seem to last a long time. I measure the chain once a month or so and have found I can push these chains out to 2500 miles before they need to be replaced. Second, they hold up very well in wet conditions. I ride in a lot rain, especially while commuting, and don't want a chain that will rust and freeze after one good rain, even if I'm not through enough drying them right away. Third, the Connex quick links work much better than SRAM, which I find very difficult to open, and way better than Shimano's replacement link. I prefer silver chains because it's easier to look at them and know right away when they need to be cleaned, which I do about once a week. I have to admit I've never thought about the weight of a chain but know they make hollow pin chains for the super weight conscious racing crowd, but I've never felt a need to be that silly. I have no issue with silver chains -- I like them, too, although I've never had a stainless steel one -- and I like Connex links, although in my experience there's no difference in ease of opening compared with SRAM, they both work fine in my book. But I do have to wonder: 2500 miles isn't much mileage. How do you arrive at the conclusion that the chains need replacement? Is it based on measured wear? And what is your maintenance regimen? I ask because I just replaced a couple of chains, a 9 speed and a 7/88. Both had over 6,000 miles of wear and neither showed any elongation, either by ruler measurement or by the Park gauge. They'd both gotten extremely flexible from side to side, I'd lost a roller from the end of each, and on both bikes shifting (index on the 9, friction on the 7) had become sloppy. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Time to replace the Quickbeam Chain Again; Did I make a $16 mistake?
On Wed, 2010-06-09 at 07:34 -0700, MichaelH wrote: I clean the chain every couple of hundred miles, or sooner if I've gone through wet mud. I ride 10 miles of dirt roads almost every day, so even with fenders, my chains get dirty. I use the Park tool on my chains and find that I got about 1500 miles out of Shimano chains, so I consider 2500 - 3000 miles pretty good. Most mechanics, and all mfg. recommend chains be replaced at about 1500 miles. I don't often ride with a bike computer and don't keep any mileage log, but I know that I do about 3500 miles commuting each season, and have never pushed a chain longer than that. A worn chain will wear out the cogs much faster, and I find that if I push a chain too far, it will damage the 12 tooth cog enough to cause skipping. I also use two sets of wheels, so am using multiple cassettes and that might make a difference too. I think the dirt roads are the key here. I'm amazed that you wear out a 12T sprocket. I find 12s to be nearly useless except on tandems and if you have a 44T big ring -- and even there, you're in the top gear so infrequently a 12 tooth sprocket could be transferred from cassette to cassette a half dozen times or more without showing significant wear. For me, it's the ones in the middle of the block that get the wear. Recommending a chain replacement at 1500 miles irrespective of wear might be fine if you are in the business of selling chains, but unless that chain is actually worn it's just wasteful. If it is worn, of course replacement is in order. Chains are much less expensive than cassettes. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Time to replace the Quickbeam Chain Again; Did I make a $16 mistake?
On Wed, 2010-06-09 at 07:24 -0700, JoelMatthews wrote: And bicycles are supposed to be, to my mind, just hefty enough, and no more, thank you. I think I have to exchange this chain for another...What say ye wise and geeky experts? Remember, it was $16. And I want to support my LBS in this land of the big box store. Exchange, or just wear it out? I guess you have to define what you mean by 'just hefty enough.' Last fall on a tour in Southwestern Wisconsin, about 12 miles from the nearest town - and another 25 from a town with a bike store - I road up on two cyclists with plastic bikes. The ultra light new fangled chain on one was broken in two places. I had a chain tool in my kit. We spent about 30 minutes trying to fix the chain to no avail. The second rider ultimately had to ride on his own back to the car. As I left, the rider with the broken bike told me from now on he would carry a spare chain. The moral is that if just hefty enough means having to carry two, then you probably have not accomplished much. I think it also means if you have a 10 or 11 speed chain you'd better have the correct chain tool, because your old familiar standby portable tools might not, perhaps certainly not, work. I still smile at the thought that on introduction the chain tool for the Campagnolo 11-speed retailed for almost $350. Three hundred and fifty bucks for a chain tool? (Does it play any louder?) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
