Re: [RBW] To Helmet or not

[Patrick Moore]

"Now I strive to ride within my means."

That is a very eloquent expression of a good rule to ride by, helmet or no
helmet, and so is the gloss: Mindfulness, confidence, skill, and humility
are essential to riding safely.  Thanks.

On Sat, Mar 30, 2019 at 1:05 PM 'Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Mark,
>
> I am thankful you are doing so well. I don’t know what they told you about
> watching for signs of a closed head injury that can appear up to two months
> after a concussion, but they all fall into the category of “the world just
> seem harder now.” Feel free to contact me off list if you would like, or
> explore my ministry website to others with brain injury (I will soon have a
> post up there about “I got a Concussion. Now What?” There are things I
> found helpful in healing that also may help more soon after a concussion.
>
> It is well known here I do not wear a helmet and that I have brain injury
> due to over eight concussions since I was 12. If a helmet were essential to
> riding safely, I would wear one. Since a helmet is not essential to riding
> safely and wearing one impedes my ability to ride (that much weight on my
> head combined with constant vertigo do not play well), I do not wear a
> helmet. A few points, which I believe are in addition to those already made:
>
> - Coup-contre coup: the physics of the brain and skull in a sudden stop
> that a helmet does nothing to protect against (and likely can’t).
> - A head and helmet weigh more than a head, so a helmeted head is, by the
> laws of physics, more likely to impact the ground in an accident. How much
> more? I doubt anyone knows.
> - I had 8+ concussions over 19 years, starting at age twelve. Over the
> last 16 years, I’ve had no concussions. What changed? I learned humility
> and slowed down to within my means to 1) assess the environment I am
> passing through well and then 2) safely navigate it and have avoided or
> minimized all subsequent accidents. Failure to do either or both of these
> is the cause of every accident I had. Now I strive to ride within my means.
> Doing this well can be done with or without a helmet. Riding within my
> means neither requires a bare head nor is it prevented by a helmet. An
> accident is assuredly a sign I failed in one or both, even if that failure
> was a failure to assess and account for other’s failures or unexpected but
> anticipatable conditions. So far, I’ve found that all conditions are
> anticipatable with enough mindfulness. I adoped the Navy Seal saying “Slow
> is smooth and smooth is fast.” Another version of “as fast as I can, as
> slow as I must.” Grin.
> - A helmet may prevent some of the injury in a low speed or glancing
> impact, but a helmet is entirely superflaus to riding safely. Mindfulness,
> confidence, skill, and humility are essential to riding safely.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
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**





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though we pass them by today,Tomorrow we may come this wayAnd take the
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--- J.R.R. Tolkien
---
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Re: [RBW] To Helmet or not

[REC (Roberta)]

I always wear my helmet.  It might help if I get into an accident and I 
don't see any downsides...for me.

If anyone is interested in the Wave helmet, I stopped by a Trek store 
yesterday and the salesperson told me all Trek and Bontrager accessories, 
including helmets,  will be 20% off next weekend, not on sale during the 
week, and then again on sale the following weekend. 

Roberta

On Friday, March 29, 2019 at 10:56:33 PM UTC-4, John McBurney wrote:

> Now the other question...which helmet?
>
> I owe my life to a MSR mountain climbing helmet.  I was a strong 16 year 
> old junior in 1970 when I rolled my tubular at 30 mph. My riding partner, 
> my grandfather, and I were among the few who wore helmets back then. The 
> MSR used a nylon web and deformable rings and I pushed the webbing to the 
> shell when I landed. The outer was deeply gouged right on the top . 
>
> I’ve crashed several times since. Been hit by a truck. But this was the 
> big one. 
>
> I recently bought on of the new Bontrager waveflow helmets. I can’t PROVE 
> it’s better than a styrofoam helmet... but I’m hedging my bets. As a 
> knowledge worker I don’t have a choice. 
>
> John W McBurney MD
> Neurologist 
>
> On Fri, Mar 29, 2019 at 10:38 PM John McBurney  > wrote:
>
>> Helmet. 
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 29, 2019 at 10:37 PM Mark Schneider > > wrote:
>>
>>> Good evening,
>>>
>>> A recent experience has made me curious on everyones opinion of wearing 
>>> helmets. To some, it seems against the standard Rivendell ethos to wear a 
>>> helmet. In this case as in others (clipless pedals)I stray from the 
>>> standard Rivendell line. I believe in them, I won't get on my bike without 
>>> one for any meaningful ride. Last night, I had an experience that made me 
>>> damn glad that I do. I was riding eastbound on Pescadero Road right at rush 
>>> hour, Butano Creek has been flooding the road for some time now so when 
>>> traffic coming from both directions approaches the flooded area both sides 
>>> form a cue. I was riding faster than I normally do as it had just started 
>>> to pour and I was headed home, as I followed a car across the flooded 
>>> section because of the small wake, I couldn't see the fog line which I try 
>>> to stay to the left of, also I was watching the cars much closer than I was 
>>> where my front tire was going.Well as you probably guessed I crashed hard 
>>> when my from tire hit the lip of a pothole at an angle that thru me 
>>> sideways off the bike. My helmeted head hit the pavement hard, and while I 
>>> didn't loose consciousness I wasn't able to stand on my own or get up for a 
>>> minute or two despite laying in 4-5 inches of cold water. There's no 
>>> question that I'd have been injured far worse than I was had I not had a 
>>> helmet on. I ended up in a ambulance and was taken to the ER. Today, I'm a 
>>> bit foggy, and my neck is killing me. I was concussed and have a whiplash, 
>>> the doctor told me I was lucky I had a helmet on, I did not go over the 
>>> handlebars but fell sideways and hit the side of my head. 
>>> I guess my point is I think this accident could happen to anyone, I've 
>>> been riding bikes since the early 1960's and I haven't crashed this hard in 
>>> decades. I did make some errors,  like not waiting for the traffic to pass, 
>>> but I've crossed this spot many times this winter as well as turning around 
>>> when there's too much water. I'm usually cautious as injuries heal slowly 
>>> at my age.
>>> So my question is, helmet or no helmet, and if no helmet why?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Mark
>>> Pescadero Basin
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>>> an email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com .
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>>> .
>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] To Helmet or not

[Edwin W]

Here are my FAQs about my helmet use that I share with friends and family to 
prove I am the bike obsessed person in their life:

Do you ever wear a helmet?
Sure, I wear a helmet sometimes. I am more likely to wear a helmet if it is 
cold, dark, rainy, or all of the above. Also, I am more likely to wear a helmet 
if I am going fast, like for exercise. I am also more likely to wear a helmet 
if I am going for a very long ride, like a tour, where I will be riding on 
roads with trucks going fast.
Do you ever not wear a helmet?
Sure, I often don’t wear a helmet. I am less likely to wear a helmet if I am 
riding at a casual speed, on an upright bicycle and on streets with slow 
traffic.
Do you make your kids wear a helmet?
Yes, it is the law here in Tennessee.
Isn’t that a double standard?
Not really…. We both follow the laws. Also, I have a lot more experience. I 
have been riding bikes for 40 years and have ridden more than 10,000 miles in 
the last few years alone.
Wouldn’t a helmet make you safer in a wreck?
Probably. I liken it to driving and walking for transportation. It is fairly 
safe, but crashes do happen. If you were in a crash, a helmet would probably 
help. I know a family that hit a deer while driving, and the antlers pierced 
the skull of one of the passengers. A helmet would have prevented that, but 
nobody I know would recommend that the passenger wear a helmet in the future, 
or not get in a car again.
But aren’t you safer in a car, surrounded by 5000 pounds of steel and with a 
seatbelt and airbags?
Yes, and still 40,000 people die every year due to cars. Just in the US! Also, 
about 280,000 people have traumatic brain injuries due to motor vehicle crashes 
each year in the US. I am sure many would have been prevented by a helmet.
But isn’t walking safer since you are on a sidewalk?
Still, 4,000 people die while walking every year in the US, many of them on the 
sidewalk, where cars occasionally crash.
Would you recommend that motorcycle riders wear a helmet?
Yes, study after study connects increased helmet use with a decrease in death 
rate among motorcycle riders.
Aren’t there studies that connect increased bike helmet use with decreased 
deaths?
Surprisingly, no. There are studies that show that many people who have been 
injured in a bike crash were not wearing helmets, but that is not the same. The 
safest places for biking are where people rarely wear helmets.
Why are bike racers required to wear helmets?
The same reason that car racers are required to wear helmets: they go much 
faster than you and I do and they travel in a very tight pack. If you bike like 
a bike racer, you might want to consider a helmet.
My Questions for You:
Would wearing a helmet while driving make you safer, less safe, or about the 
same?
Most people I ask admit that it would probably make them safer, but nobody I 
know wears a helmet for driving, even when driving at night, in the mountains, 
in the rain or in the snow. Or driving fast surrounded by big trucks. Nobody I 
know has even considered it! And I think that is fine.
Would wearing a helmet while walking make you safer, less safe, or about the 
same?
Most people I ask say “about the same.” Because of this, nobody I know has ever 
considered wearing a helmet when walking.
I think wearing a helmet when driving or walking (and biking around town) would 
make you safer, but it is not SO dangerous, and a helmet would not make you SO 
much safer that I would recommend wearing one all the time. I don’t know why 
people so consistently single out biking as a particularly dangerous activity 
that requires helmet use.
Also, “unintentional injury” is the leading cause of death in people ages 1-44. 
Unintentional motor vehicle incident is the leading or 2nd leading cause of 
these injuries in people over 1 year old. Shouldn’t we be talking more about 
how to decrease these deaths and injuries rather than focusing so much on 
biking without a helmet? Remember, biking is very safe, and is good for your 
city. If you want to improve health, safety, or your town, ride a bike! With or 
without a helmet!

Edwin

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Re: [RBW] To Helmet or not

[Patrick Moore]

I ought to add that I've been riding for just about 60 years man and boy,
and riding in urban traffic for almost 52 years, man and boy. I've ridden
without helmet, recklessly I must admit, in some of the statistically worst
traffic in the world (Kenya in the '60s and '70s had some of the worst auto
accident rates in the world) and in unbelievably crowded and chaotic
conditions -- Connaught Place; downtown Karachi.

I've had multiple accidents without a helmet, but thank God have never been
seriously injured. Jobst Brandt rode what, 10K+ miles/year, on and off
road, Alps, pavement and dirt, for 50 or 60 years without a helmet.

Again: I am not trying to prove anything, even to myself. I am -- for
myself alone -- simply calling up evidence. Anecdote can match anecdote,
but if anyone has a rigorous statistical report on the amount that helmets
reduce serious cycling injury, please post the link.

On Sat, Mar 30, 2019 at 3:08 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> I'm very glad you ended up more or less alright.
>
> I haven't worn a helmet for at least 15 years even when commuting across
> town on main streets at rush hour (I wore a helmet for 20 years before
> that). But I often wonder if if I should start using one again -- as I did
> while riding 1 mile in the narrow lane on 4-lane, 50 mph Montano Boulevard
> just now.
>
> I share my thoughts below; that's all. I am not urging anyone to do
> anything that he or she does not want to do.
>
> My question is: What is the statistical reduction in serious injury or
> death, overall, from wearing a helmet? Or to put the same or a very similar
> and practically the same question a different way: how statistically
> frequent are such accidents as yours, and what is the statistical frequency
> of serious harm with, and what without, a helmet?
>
> I follow the secondary literature a great deal, and I have to confess that
> I haven't seen sound statistics showing that they -- statistically! -- make
> a material difference overall on cycling safety.
>
> There are always exceptions; doubtless your accident was one of them. But
> there are exceptions in every field of activity; high rise fires, tire
> blowouts at 85 on the freeway, serious food poisoning. And one takes very
> serious measures against such exceptions, but where exactly does one start
> to do so?
>
> I am still asking myself if I should wear a helmet; I dunno. Perhaps I
> will. I have kept one for years, just never worn.
>
> On Fri, Mar 29, 2019 at 8:37 PM Mark Schneider  wrote:
>
>> Good evening,
>>
>> A recent experience has made me curious on everyones opinion of wearing
>> helmets. To some, it seems against the standard Rivendell ethos to wear a
>> helmet. In this case as in others (clipless pedals)I stray from the
>> standard Rivendell line. I believe in them, I won't get on my bike without
>> one for any meaningful ride. Last night, I had an experience that made me
>> damn glad that I do. I was riding eastbound on Pescadero Road right at rush
>> hour, Butano Creek has been flooding the road for some time now so when
>> traffic coming from both directions approaches the flooded area both sides
>> form a cue. I was riding faster than I normally do as it had just started
>> to pour and I was headed home, as I followed a car across the flooded
>> section because of the small wake, I couldn't see the fog line which I try
>> to stay to the left of, also I was watching the cars much closer than I was
>> where my front tire was going.Well as you probably guessed I crashed hard
>> when my from tire hit the lip of a pothole at an angle that thru me
>> sideways off the bike. My helmeted head hit the pavement hard, and while I
>> didn't loose consciousness I wasn't able to stand on my own or get up for a
>> minute or two despite laying in 4-5 inches of cold water. There's no
>> question that I'd have been injured far worse than I was had I not had a
>> helmet on. I ended up in a ambulance and was taken to the ER. Today, I'm a
>> bit foggy, and my neck is killing me. I was concussed and have a whiplash,
>> the doctor told me I was lucky I had a helmet on, I did not go over the
>> handlebars but fell sideways and hit the side of my head.
>> I guess my point is I think this accident could happen to anyone, I've
>> been riding bikes since the early 1960's and I haven't crashed this hard in
>> decades. I did make some errors,  like not waiting for the traffic to pass,
>> but I've crossed this spot many times this winter as well as turning around
>> when there's too much water. I'm usually cautious as injuries heal slowly
>> at my age.
>> So my question is, helmet or no helmet, and if no helmet why?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Mark
>> Pescadero Basin
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to rbw-o

Re: [RBW] To Helmet or not

[Patrick Moore]

I'm very glad you ended up more or less alright.

I haven't worn a helmet for at least 15 years even when commuting across
town on main streets at rush hour (I wore a helmet for 20 years before
that). But I often wonder if if I should start using one again -- as I did
while riding 1 mile in the narrow lane on 4-lane, 50 mph Montano Boulevard
just now.

I share my thoughts below; that's all. I am not urging anyone to do
anything that he or she does not want to do.

My question is: What is the statistical reduction in serious injury or
death, overall, from wearing a helmet? Or to put the same or a very similar
and practically the same question a different way: how statistically
frequent are such accidents as yours, and what is the statistical frequency
of serious harm with, and what without, a helmet?

I follow the secondary literature a great deal, and I have to confess that
I haven't seen sound statistics showing that they -- statistically! -- make
a material difference overall on cycling safety.

There are always exceptions; doubtless your accident was one of them. But
there are exceptions in every field of activity; high rise fires, tire
blowouts at 85 on the freeway, serious food poisoning. And one takes very
serious measures against such exceptions, but where exactly does one start
to do so?

I am still asking myself if I should wear a helmet; I dunno. Perhaps I
will. I have kept one for years, just never worn.

On Fri, Mar 29, 2019 at 8:37 PM Mark Schneider  wrote:

> Good evening,
>
> A recent experience has made me curious on everyones opinion of wearing
> helmets. To some, it seems against the standard Rivendell ethos to wear a
> helmet. In this case as in others (clipless pedals)I stray from the
> standard Rivendell line. I believe in them, I won't get on my bike without
> one for any meaningful ride. Last night, I had an experience that made me
> damn glad that I do. I was riding eastbound on Pescadero Road right at rush
> hour, Butano Creek has been flooding the road for some time now so when
> traffic coming from both directions approaches the flooded area both sides
> form a cue. I was riding faster than I normally do as it had just started
> to pour and I was headed home, as I followed a car across the flooded
> section because of the small wake, I couldn't see the fog line which I try
> to stay to the left of, also I was watching the cars much closer than I was
> where my front tire was going.Well as you probably guessed I crashed hard
> when my from tire hit the lip of a pothole at an angle that thru me
> sideways off the bike. My helmeted head hit the pavement hard, and while I
> didn't loose consciousness I wasn't able to stand on my own or get up for a
> minute or two despite laying in 4-5 inches of cold water. There's no
> question that I'd have been injured far worse than I was had I not had a
> helmet on. I ended up in a ambulance and was taken to the ER. Today, I'm a
> bit foggy, and my neck is killing me. I was concussed and have a whiplash,
> the doctor told me I was lucky I had a helmet on, I did not go over the
> handlebars but fell sideways and hit the side of my head.
> I guess my point is I think this accident could happen to anyone, I've
> been riding bikes since the early 1960's and I haven't crashed this hard in
> decades. I did make some errors,  like not waiting for the traffic to pass,
> but I've crossed this spot many times this winter as well as turning around
> when there's too much water. I'm usually cautious as injuries heal slowly
> at my age.
> So my question is, helmet or no helmet, and if no helmet why?
>
> Thanks
> Mark
> Pescadero Basin
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>


-- 



**





*Still 'round the corner there may waitA new road or a secret gate,And
though we pass them by today,Tomorrow we may come this wayAnd take the
hidden paths that runTowards the Moon or to the Sun.*
--- J.R.R. Tolkien
---
Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews
By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching
Other professional writing services
Expensive! But good.
http://www.resumespecialties.com/
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique

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Re: [RBW] To Helmet or not

['Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Mark said: “sometime events unfold in a way you can't predict”

Och, aye! Ain’t that the spice of life? Grin. But we CAN predict their 
unpredictability. I’ve found there is an exponential factor to layers upon 
layers that contribute to unpredictability that is stunningly predictable. 
Among them: my capacity (brain, fatigue, alertness), any intersection of any 
kind, any barrier/obsticle of any kind, anything human made/influenced/related, 
presence of any other person or vehicle, presence in a populated area, wet or 
frozen weather or even the feel of it, etc...

The more of those layers there are, the more I slow down and double and triple 
look. It sounds exhausting, but it is actually far more simple (and thus hard), 
and thus takes less energy and ... well, is smoother. Slow is smooth and smooth 
is fast. Grin. 

With abandon,
Patrick  

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Re: [RBW] To Helmet or not

[Mark Schneider]

Thank you Patrick I will keep an eye out for symptoms going forward as you 
suggest. I knew you didn't use helmets and I was hoping you'd comment on 
the post as you always offer interesting insights. Had I slowed a little 
and been more mindful I wouldn't have crashed, but sometime events unfold 
in a way you can't predict. Issues of fatigue, stress, weather conditions, 
and others occasionally conspire to make one act less cautiously than 
normal and result in a mistake. If I was to ride without a helmet I know 
I'd ride slower and much more cautiously. I also know that when I ride a 
fender-less bike I slow way down on that crossing, (so I don't get soaked) 
and the Atlantis I ride without fenders, has wider, safer tires on it.

Mark

On Saturday, March 30, 2019 at 12:05:27 PM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> Mark, 
>
> I am thankful you are doing so well. I don’t know what they told you about 
> watching for signs of a closed head injury that can appear up to two months 
> after a concussion, but they all fall into the category of “the world just 
> seem harder now.” Feel free to contact me off list if you would like, or 
> explore my ministry website to others with brain injury (I will soon have a 
> post up there about “I got a Concussion. Now What?” There are things I 
> found helpful in healing that also may help more soon after a concussion. 
>
> It is well known here I do not wear a helmet and that I have brain injury 
> due to over eight concussions since I was 12. If a helmet were essential to 
> riding safely, I would wear one. Since a helmet is not essential to riding 
> safely and wearing one impedes my ability to ride (that much weight on my 
> head combined with constant vertigo do not play well), I do not wear a 
> helmet. A few points, which I believe are in addition to those already 
> made: 
>
> - Coup-contre coup: the physics of the brain and skull in a sudden stop 
> that a helmet does nothing to protect against (and likely can’t). 
> - A head and helmet weigh more than a head, so a helmeted head is, by the 
> laws of physics, more likely to impact the ground in an accident. How much 
> more? I doubt anyone knows. 
> - I had 8+ concussions over 19 years, starting at age twelve. Over the 
> last 16 years, I’ve had no concussions. What changed? I learned humility 
> and slowed down to within my means to 1) assess the environment I am 
> passing through well and then 2) safely navigate it and have avoided or 
> minimized all subsequent accidents. Failure to do either or both of these 
> is the cause of every accident I had. Now I strive to ride within my means. 
> Doing this well can be done with or without a helmet. Riding within my 
> means neither requires a bare head nor is it prevented by a helmet. An 
> accident is assuredly a sign I failed in one or both, even if that failure 
> was a failure to assess and account for other’s failures or unexpected but 
> anticipatable conditions. So far, I’ve found that all conditions are 
> anticipatable with enough mindfulness. I adoped the Navy Seal saying “Slow 
> is smooth and smooth is fast.” Another version of “as fast as I can, as 
> slow as I must.” Grin. 
> - A helmet may prevent some of the injury in a low speed or glancing 
> impact, but a helmet is entirely superflaus to riding safely. Mindfulness, 
> confidence, skill, and humility are essential to riding safely.   
>
> With abandon, 
> Patrick

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Re: [RBW] To Helmet or not

['Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Mark,

I am thankful you are doing so well. I don’t know what they told you about 
watching for signs of a closed head injury that can appear up to two months 
after a concussion, but they all fall into the category of “the world just seem 
harder now.” Feel free to contact me off list if you would like, or explore my 
ministry website to others with brain injury (I will soon have a post up there 
about “I got a Concussion. Now What?” There are things I found helpful in 
healing that also may help more soon after a concussion.

It is well known here I do not wear a helmet and that I have brain injury due 
to over eight concussions since I was 12. If a helmet were essential to riding 
safely, I would wear one. Since a helmet is not essential to riding safely and 
wearing one impedes my ability to ride (that much weight on my head combined 
with constant vertigo do not play well), I do not wear a helmet. A few points, 
which I believe are in addition to those already made:

- Coup-contre coup: the physics of the brain and skull in a sudden stop that a 
helmet does nothing to protect against (and likely can’t).
- A head and helmet weigh more than a head, so a helmeted head is, by the laws 
of physics, more likely to impact the ground in an accident. How much more? I 
doubt anyone knows.
- I had 8+ concussions over 19 years, starting at age twelve. Over the last 16 
years, I’ve had no concussions. What changed? I learned humility and slowed 
down to within my means to 1) assess the environment I am passing through well 
and then 2) safely navigate it and have avoided or minimized all subsequent 
accidents. Failure to do either or both of these is the cause of every accident 
I had. Now I strive to ride within my means. Doing this well can be done with 
or without a helmet. Riding within my means neither requires a bare head nor is 
it prevented by a helmet. An accident is assuredly a sign I failed in one or 
both, even if that failure was a failure to assess and account for other’s 
failures or unexpected but anticipatable conditions. So far, I’ve found that 
all conditions are anticipatable with enough mindfulness. I adoped the Navy 
Seal saying “Slow is smooth and smooth is fast.” Another version of “as fast as 
I can, as slow as I must.” Grin.
- A helmet may prevent some of the injury in a low speed or glancing impact, 
but a helmet is entirely superflaus to riding safely. Mindfulness, confidence, 
skill, and humility are essential to riding safely.   

With abandon,
Patrick

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Re: [RBW] To Helmet or not

[Joe Bernard]

- The crash Mark experienced can hardly be said to have been the result of 
"risk compensation." -

I made no reference to Mark's wreck. My post was clearly a summary of Grant's 
stance about helmet use, which he and I discussed at length on a ride shortly 
after he wrote it up in a Reader about 14-15 years ago. 

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Re: [RBW] To Helmet or not

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I usually don't wear a helmet. Not when commuting or shopping. On group rides 
when a helmet is expected or required I will wear a helmet. 

I've come off the bike pretty hard both with and without a helmet. The withs 
were during USCF racing. Both times mild to serious concussions. I was in a 
race where a writer crashed out, he hit his head I guess pretty bad, was 
wearing a helmet. He was never quite the same after that.

Latest without, I came off the bike going downhill at fairly high speed due to 
another rider's error last summer, went off the road, over the bars and down 
off a 6-foot rock retaining wall into the woods. Received a concussion but 
fairly mild compared to the others. I suppose I could have landed on a rock and 
cracked my head open.

Why? I don't really feel like making a case, but I will say it's a good part 
philosophical. I also enjoy the feeling of riding without a helmet.

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Re: [RBW] To Helmet or not

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

I have been following this thread with interest and as a result, I think I’ll 
heed the nudge I feel to start wearing my helmet. The problem is going to be 
this: HAIR. And not just mine. My 13 year old son takes pains each morning to 
have his just so and a helmet will wreck it. This will be a fight after years 
of not wearing the helmet. And then there’s my hair. I love a good Dutch braid 
or even an up-do, and these don’t fit under helmets. Ugh.

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Re: [RBW] To Helmet or not

[Ryan M.]

I wear a helmet pretty much anytime I ride the bike. I've crashed a number 
of times on the mountain bikes and a few times when I rode on the roadways, 
and the helmet seemed to always help. Well, I haven't had a head injury yet 
but I've busted up ribs a couple of times. I think I have broken three 
helmets now. I have a bontrager mtb helmet now (I forget which one) that 
has extra material that comes down the back of the neck and MIPS and it 
certainly feels like it can help when in a crash. 

When I ride the motorcycle I always wear a full face helmet, motocross 
boots, and a full set of abrasion proof armored pants/jackets, gloves, 
ect...also always wear a seatbelt in the car too. 

On Friday, March 29, 2019 at 10:34:21 PM UTC-5, Jim A wrote:
>
> People are giving good reasons for wearing a helmet while cycling.
>
> Follow up question: Helmet or not when doing other activities with similar 
> statistical risk of head injury (eg driving a motor vehicle with a seatbelt 
> on, climbing a ladder)? If not, why not?
>
> Genuinely curious, but feel free to delete if OT or if helmet wars 
> commence.
>
>
>

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[RBW] To Helmet or not

[rob markwardt]

I’ve cracked at least two of them so it goes on most of the time. My last crash 
was pretty bad going down hard on my right side. I had road rash and soreness 
at every contact point on my body except my head. If it does nothing else than 
keep my head from getting scraped into hamburger then it’s worth it to me. 

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[RBW] To Helmet or not

[Jeffrey Arita]

+2 for wearing a helmet.  My wife crashed very recently (wet bike path, 
off-camber, downhill turn) and landed almost head first.  Cracked helmet in 3 
places...she (and I) without further comment understood what could have 
happened...

Jeff

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Re: [RBW] To Helmet or not

[Steve Palincsar]

On 3/29/19 11:34 PM, Jim A wrote:

People are giving good reasons for wearing a helmet while cycling.

Follow up question: Helmet or not when doing other activities with 
similar statistical risk of head injury (eg driving a motor vehicle 
with a seatbelt on, climbing a ladder)? If not, why not?




It is standard practice for construction workers and visitors to 
building sites, and people working in trees to wear helmets.  It is also 
standard practice for race drivers to wear helmets.  Ditto for caving, 
mining, firefighting and any number of other occupations.  Likewise, 
there are many sports where wearing helmets is common practice.



--
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia
USA

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Re: [RBW] To Helmet or not

[Bill Schairer]

“Helmet or not when doing other activities with similar statistical risk of 
head injury (eg driving a motor vehicle with a seatbelt on, climbing a ladder)”

I wear a helmet whenever I ride.  In 40 plus years of doing so I broke one (a 
classic Bell) going less than 10 mph just as i got to work over 30 years ago.  
It had just started raining, I pulled into the parking lot, turned left barely 
moving and was flat on my back before I knew it.  This convinced me that speed 
or type of ride is irrelevant.  I put one on to ride 50 yards to test an 
adjustment I’ve made.

And, yes, I have worn one from time to time when engaged in other risky 
activities - on a ladder (but not always) or in a tree doing trimming, for 
example.  My ex mother -in-law died after falling from a ladder and hitting her 
head.

I have zero concern for whether or not what I am doing on my bike is 
Rivendellian.

Bill S

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Re: [RBW] To Helmet or not

[Drw]

This has been a lightning rod topic in the past (for reasons that escape me). 
Helmet though, and I kinda want one of those fancy new trek ones. 

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Re: [RBW] To Helmet or not

[Joe Gates]

Helmet.  It is second nature now and as Eric said “no real reason not to.”  
Plus, as a father, I am trying to set a good example for my children. One day I 
might be glad they had their helmet on. 

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Re: [RBW] To Helmet or not

[Jim A]

People are giving good reasons for wearing a helmet while cycling.

Follow up question: Helmet or not when doing other activities with similar 
statistical risk of head injury (eg driving a motor vehicle with a seatbelt 
on, climbing a ladder)? If not, why not?

Genuinely curious, but feel free to delete if OT or if helmet wars commence.


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Re: [RBW] To Helmet or not

['Eric Norris' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Helmet. Always. Every single ride.

No real reason not to, and lots of good reasons to wear one, among which is the 
fact that I make my living with my brain, which is inside my skull.

--Eric Norris
campyonly...@me.com
@CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)

> On Mar 29, 2019, at 7:37 PM, Mark Schneider  wrote:
> 
> Good evening,
> 
> A recent experience has made me curious on everyones opinion of wearing 
> helmets. To some, it seems against the standard Rivendell ethos to wear a 
> helmet. In this case as in others (clipless pedals)I stray from the standard 
> Rivendell line. I believe in them, I won't get on my bike without one for any 
> meaningful ride. Last night, I had an experience that made me damn glad that 
> I do. I was riding eastbound on Pescadero Road right at rush hour, Butano 
> Creek has been flooding the road for some time now so when traffic coming 
> from both directions approaches the flooded area both sides form a cue. I was 
> riding faster than I normally do as it had just started to pour and I was 
> headed home, as I followed a car across the flooded section because of the 
> small wake, I couldn't see the fog line which I try to stay to the left of, 
> also I was watching the cars much closer than I was where my front tire was 
> going.Well as you probably guessed I crashed hard when my from tire hit the 
> lip of a pothole at an angle that thru me sideways off the bike. My helmeted 
> head hit the pavement hard, and while I didn't loose consciousness I wasn't 
> able to stand on my own or get up for a minute or two despite laying in 4-5 
> inches of cold water. There's no question that I'd have been injured far 
> worse than I was had I not had a helmet on. I ended up in a ambulance and was 
> taken to the ER. Today, I'm a bit foggy, and my neck is killing me. I was 
> concussed and have a whiplash, the doctor told me I was lucky I had a helmet 
> on, I did not go over the handlebars but fell sideways and hit the side of my 
> head. 
> I guess my point is I think this accident could happen to anyone, I've been 
> riding bikes since the early 1960's and I haven't crashed this hard in 
> decades. I did make some errors,  like not waiting for the traffic to pass, 
> but I've crossed this spot many times this winter as well as turning around 
> when there's too much water. I'm usually cautious as injuries heal slowly at 
> my age.
> So my question is, helmet or no helmet, and if no helmet why?
> 
> Thanks
> Mark
> Pescadero Basin
> 
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[RBW] To Helmet or not

[Joe Bernard]

Discs

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Re: [RBW] To Helmet or not

[John McBurney]

Now the other question...which helmet?

I owe my life to a MSR mountain climbing helmet.  I was a strong 16 year
old junior in 1970 when I rolled my tubular at 30 mph. My riding partner,
my grandfather, and I were among the few who wore helmets back then. The
MSR used a nylon web and deformable rings and I pushed the webbing to the
shell when I landed. The outer was deeply gouged right on the top .

I’ve crashed several times since. Been hit by a truck. But this was the big
one.

I recently bought on of the new Bontrager waveflow helmets. I can’t PROVE
it’s better than a styrofoam helmet... but I’m hedging my bets. As a
knowledge worker I don’t have a choice.

John W McBurney MD
Neurologist

On Fri, Mar 29, 2019 at 10:38 PM John McBurney  wrote:

> Helmet.
>
> On Fri, Mar 29, 2019 at 10:37 PM Mark Schneider 
> wrote:
>
>> Good evening,
>>
>> A recent experience has made me curious on everyones opinion of wearing
>> helmets. To some, it seems against the standard Rivendell ethos to wear a
>> helmet. In this case as in others (clipless pedals)I stray from the
>> standard Rivendell line. I believe in them, I won't get on my bike without
>> one for any meaningful ride. Last night, I had an experience that made me
>> damn glad that I do. I was riding eastbound on Pescadero Road right at rush
>> hour, Butano Creek has been flooding the road for some time now so when
>> traffic coming from both directions approaches the flooded area both sides
>> form a cue. I was riding faster than I normally do as it had just started
>> to pour and I was headed home, as I followed a car across the flooded
>> section because of the small wake, I couldn't see the fog line which I try
>> to stay to the left of, also I was watching the cars much closer than I was
>> where my front tire was going.Well as you probably guessed I crashed hard
>> when my from tire hit the lip of a pothole at an angle that thru me
>> sideways off the bike. My helmeted head hit the pavement hard, and while I
>> didn't loose consciousness I wasn't able to stand on my own or get up for a
>> minute or two despite laying in 4-5 inches of cold water. There's no
>> question that I'd have been injured far worse than I was had I not had a
>> helmet on. I ended up in a ambulance and was taken to the ER. Today, I'm a
>> bit foggy, and my neck is killing me. I was concussed and have a whiplash,
>> the doctor told me I was lucky I had a helmet on, I did not go over the
>> handlebars but fell sideways and hit the side of my head.
>> I guess my point is I think this accident could happen to anyone, I've
>> been riding bikes since the early 1960's and I haven't crashed this hard in
>> decades. I did make some errors,  like not waiting for the traffic to pass,
>> but I've crossed this spot many times this winter as well as turning around
>> when there's too much water. I'm usually cautious as injuries heal slowly
>> at my age.
>> So my question is, helmet or no helmet, and if no helmet why?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Mark
>> Pescadero Basin
>>
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>

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[RBW] To Helmet or not

[Christopher Cote]

I've hit my head on the ground with and without a helmet. I know which I 
prefer. That's all I have to say.

Chris

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Re: [RBW] To Helmet or not

[John McBurney]

Helmet.

On Fri, Mar 29, 2019 at 10:37 PM Mark Schneider  wrote:

> Good evening,
>
> A recent experience has made me curious on everyones opinion of wearing
> helmets. To some, it seems against the standard Rivendell ethos to wear a
> helmet. In this case as in others (clipless pedals)I stray from the
> standard Rivendell line. I believe in them, I won't get on my bike without
> one for any meaningful ride. Last night, I had an experience that made me
> damn glad that I do. I was riding eastbound on Pescadero Road right at rush
> hour, Butano Creek has been flooding the road for some time now so when
> traffic coming from both directions approaches the flooded area both sides
> form a cue. I was riding faster than I normally do as it had just started
> to pour and I was headed home, as I followed a car across the flooded
> section because of the small wake, I couldn't see the fog line which I try
> to stay to the left of, also I was watching the cars much closer than I was
> where my front tire was going.Well as you probably guessed I crashed hard
> when my from tire hit the lip of a pothole at an angle that thru me
> sideways off the bike. My helmeted head hit the pavement hard, and while I
> didn't loose consciousness I wasn't able to stand on my own or get up for a
> minute or two despite laying in 4-5 inches of cold water. There's no
> question that I'd have been injured far worse than I was had I not had a
> helmet on. I ended up in a ambulance and was taken to the ER. Today, I'm a
> bit foggy, and my neck is killing me. I was concussed and have a whiplash,
> the doctor told me I was lucky I had a helmet on, I did not go over the
> handlebars but fell sideways and hit the side of my head.
> I guess my point is I think this accident could happen to anyone, I've
> been riding bikes since the early 1960's and I haven't crashed this hard in
> decades. I did make some errors,  like not waiting for the traffic to pass,
> but I've crossed this spot many times this winter as well as turning around
> when there's too much water. I'm usually cautious as injuries heal slowly
> at my age.
> So my question is, helmet or no helmet, and if no helmet why?
>
> Thanks
> Mark
> Pescadero Basin
>
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[RBW] To Helmet or not

[Mark Schneider]

Good evening,

A recent experience has made me curious on everyones opinion of wearing 
helmets. To some, it seems against the standard Rivendell ethos to wear a 
helmet. In this case as in others (clipless pedals)I stray from the 
standard Rivendell line. I believe in them, I won't get on my bike without 
one for any meaningful ride. Last night, I had an experience that made me 
damn glad that I do. I was riding eastbound on Pescadero Road right at rush 
hour, Butano Creek has been flooding the road for some time now so when 
traffic coming from both directions approaches the flooded area both sides 
form a cue. I was riding faster than I normally do as it had just started 
to pour and I was headed home, as I followed a car across the flooded 
section because of the small wake, I couldn't see the fog line which I try 
to stay to the left of, also I was watching the cars much closer than I was 
where my front tire was going.Well as you probably guessed I crashed hard 
when my from tire hit the lip of a pothole at an angle that thru me 
sideways off the bike. My helmeted head hit the pavement hard, and while I 
didn't loose consciousness I wasn't able to stand on my own or get up for a 
minute or two despite laying in 4-5 inches of cold water. There's no 
question that I'd have been injured far worse than I was had I not had a 
helmet on. I ended up in a ambulance and was taken to the ER. Today, I'm a 
bit foggy, and my neck is killing me. I was concussed and have a whiplash, 
the doctor told me I was lucky I had a helmet on, I did not go over the 
handlebars but fell sideways and hit the side of my head. 
I guess my point is I think this accident could happen to anyone, I've been 
riding bikes since the early 1960's and I haven't crashed this hard in 
decades. I did make some errors,  like not waiting for the traffic to pass, 
but I've crossed this spot many times this winter as well as turning around 
when there's too much water. I'm usually cautious as injuries heal slowly 
at my age.
So my question is, helmet or no helmet, and if no helmet why?

Thanks
Mark
Pescadero Basin

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