subject:"\[RBW\] bottom bracket toubleshooting trivia"

Re: [RBW] bottom bracket toubleshooting trivia

2023-01-16 Thread Nick Payne

I always chase and face BB shell threads before installing a bottom 
bracket. Almost universally I find there is some misalignment and/or 
distortion that the taps and facing cutters correct. Even custom frames 
from well-known builders benefit from having this done.

Ditto for the reaming of the head tube and fork crown.

Nick

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Re: [RBW] bottom bracket toubleshooting trivia

2023-01-15 Thread George Schick

Another thing that can be done, and I've done several times with both 
Shimano and Phil BB's that kept working loose, is get a locking ring from 
an old three-piece BB set, torque the NDS cup to where it feels right, hold 
it in place with the BB wrench and tighten down the locking ring on the few 
threads that remain visible outside of the BB shell with a locking ring 
wrench.  Loctite, Teflon tape, or whatever can also be applied on those 
threads before installing the locking ring.


On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 4:19:55 PM UTC-6 Garth wrote:

> I've notice this with both Shimano and Tange cartridges. If torqued to 
> what the manual says, the spindle doesn't rotate freely. It's not 
> "supposed" to do that, but what good is that when it does ? So, I lessened 
> the torque. I also apply teflon tape on the threads, along with the grease. 
> While teflon tape's "supposed" purpose is to prevent leaks and keep the 
> threads from seizing, it also fills the gaps in the threads and acts like a 
> mild thread locker. (I also applied some teflon tape on a Delta bathtub 
> single scald-guard knob mounting bolt that wouldn't stay tight, not even 
> locitite worked, at least the blue crap I had. The darn bolt on the cap 
> hasn't budged with the tape.) I had one Shimano NDS cup that did slooowly 
> loosen over a lng time. So with that I removed the NDS cup, applied a 
> little blue loctite with the tape and it hasn't moved since. When in doubt, 
> just throw everything in there ..in other words ... what you need to do 
> will come to you as needed. 
>
> The NDS cup with cartridges doesn't need to be that tight, it's only 
> purpose is for mounting in the frame. As such, it doesn't matter how tight 
> it is, unless it binds the bearing that is. 
>
> The cartridges that have a lipped NDS cup(UN54) were never an issue, only 
> the newer ones without it. The UN72 was never a problem either. 
>
> That's the story of that ... 
>

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Re: [RBW] bottom bracket toubleshooting trivia

2023-01-15 Thread Garth

I've notice this with both Shimano and Tange cartridges. If torqued to what
the manual says, the spindle doesn't rotate freely. It's not "supposed" to
do that, but what good is that when it does ? So, I lessened the torque. I
also apply teflon tape on the threads, along with the grease. While teflon
tape's "supposed" purpose is to prevent leaks and keep the threads from
seizing, it also fills the gaps in the threads and acts like a mild thread
locker. (I also applied some teflon tape on a Delta bathtub single
scald-guard knob mounting bolt that wouldn't stay tight, not even locitite
worked, at least the blue crap I had. The darn bolt on the cap hasn't
budged with the tape.) I had one Shimano NDS cup that did slooowly loosen
over a lng time. So with that I removed the NDS cup, applied a little
blue loctite with the tape and it hasn't moved since. When in doubt, just
throw everything in there ..in other words ... what you need to do will
come to you as needed.

The NDS cup with cartridges doesn't need to be that tight, it's only
purpose is for mounting in the frame. As such, it doesn't matter how tight
it is, unless it binds the bearing that is.

The cartridges that have a lipped NDS cup(UN54) were never an issue, only
the newer ones without it. The UN72 was never a problem either.

That's the story of that ...

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Re: [RBW] bottom bracket toubleshooting trivia

2023-01-15 Thread Mr. Ray

Don't worry.  Your "new" UN91 bb's are likely over 15 years or older since 
leaving the Shimano factory.  The grease inside has probably changed 
viscosity due to non-use.  Cartridge bb's don't usually require a "ream and 
face" of the bb shell so if the cups are torqued to spec just attach cranks 
and ride.  The spindle should spin smoothly after breaking in.  My last 
UN91 wasn't torqued to spec and lasted over 30,000 miles.  I only tossed it 
because I tossed the frame and couldn't get the cups loose easily.

On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 1:52:56 PM UTC-5 Scott wrote:

> Edit correction to my post, please.
>
> Second sentence of third paragraph of original post should read:
>
> When I turn the spindle by hand it is not smooth (definitely some 
> resistance and a tad sticky)*, unlike* the one I installed in Atlantis or 
> an uninstalled on.
>
>
>
> On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 11:44:35 AM MST, 'Scott' via RBW Owners 
> Bunch  wrote: 
>
>
> Hey, Bunch:
>
> Pinging the group's knowledge for input/feedback on an issue I'm having 
> with an install of a new cartridge style BB in a new frame.
>
> I'm building a new Atlantis and Gus. I installed a new BB (Shimano XTR 
> UN91) in Atlantis and torqued to spec. It's butterlicious smooth. Installed 
> cranks and gave them a spin. It's what every man, woman, and child wants. 
>
> I installed same BB (also new) in Gus and tightened to spec. When I turn 
> the spindle by hand it is not smooth (definitely some resistance and a tad 
> sticky) like the one I installed in Atlantis or an uninstalled one. Why is 
> that? I checked it before install, and it was butter smooth. I uninstalled 
> it from Gus, and it spins butter smooth. I reinstalled main body section to 
> spec, and it is butter smooth, no change. When I install the opposing cup 
> (Shimano calls it an adapter), at this point is when I begin to notice a 
> notable change in spindle rotation smoothness.
>
> I've ensured proper shell widths. And I've ensured shell/cartridge faces 
> are clean and blemish-free.
>
> Of note, opposing cup spins freely during install for about one third the 
> way to full seat. From there it spins freely part of rotation and not 
> freely otherwise. I can turn it by hand still using splined-tool, but there 
> is definitely resistance during part of the rotation. After I can't go any 
> further by hand, I fully seat with torque wrench.
>
> Could it be that the threads on either side of the shell are not exactly 
> coplanar, since threads are not continuous from one side of shell to the 
> other?
> It shouldn't be a shell facing issue, because the opposing cup doesn't 
> interface with shell face.
>
> Confounding to me. There isn't much to installing a new cartridge style BB 
> into a new frame...screw it in. That's the problem, in part. There's 
> nothing to correct with install technique. I'd love to be wrong and get it 
> butter smooth like one in my Atlantis, for example.
>
> Please, share your thoughts as to what the source of issue may be and 
> recommended remedy!
>
> Scott in (I want it to be spring, summer, and fall) Montana
>
>
>
>
> -- 
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>  
> 
> .
>

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Re: [RBW] bottom bracket toubleshooting trivia

2023-01-15 Thread JohnS

Hello Scott,

Is there a screw for the under bottom bracket cable guide? It could be a 
tad long and interfering with the bottom bracket. I would recommend backing 
it out and if that helps adding a washer to the screw or replacing with a 
slightly shorter one. I've had some difficulties with bottom bracket 
installs in the past due to the cable guide screw being too long.

Hope it helps,
JohnS

On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 1:52:56 PM UTC-5 Scott wrote:

> Edit correction to my post, please.
>
> Second sentence of third paragraph of original post should read:
>
> When I turn the spindle by hand it is not smooth (definitely some 
> resistance and a tad sticky)*, unlike* the one I installed in Atlantis or 
> an uninstalled on.
>
>
>
> On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 11:44:35 AM MST, 'Scott' via RBW Owners 
> Bunch  wrote: 
>
>
> Hey, Bunch:
>
> Pinging the group's knowledge for input/feedback on an issue I'm having 
> with an install of a new cartridge style BB in a new frame.
>
> I'm building a new Atlantis and Gus. I installed a new BB (Shimano XTR 
> UN91) in Atlantis and torqued to spec. It's butterlicious smooth. Installed 
> cranks and gave them a spin. It's what every man, woman, and child wants. 
>
> I installed same BB (also new) in Gus and tightened to spec. When I turn 
> the spindle by hand it is not smooth (definitely some resistance and a tad 
> sticky) like the one I installed in Atlantis or an uninstalled one. Why is 
> that? I checked it before install, and it was butter smooth. I uninstalled 
> it from Gus, and it spins butter smooth. I reinstalled main body section to 
> spec, and it is butter smooth, no change. When I install the opposing cup 
> (Shimano calls it an adapter), at this point is when I begin to notice a 
> notable change in spindle rotation smoothness.
>
> I've ensured proper shell widths. And I've ensured shell/cartridge faces 
> are clean and blemish-free.
>
> Of note, opposing cup spins freely during install for about one third the 
> way to full seat. From there it spins freely part of rotation and not 
> freely otherwise. I can turn it by hand still using splined-tool, but there 
> is definitely resistance during part of the rotation. After I can't go any 
> further by hand, I fully seat with torque wrench.
>
> Could it be that the threads on either side of the shell are not exactly 
> coplanar, since threads are not continuous from one side of shell to the 
> other?
> It shouldn't be a shell facing issue, because the opposing cup doesn't 
> interface with shell face.
>
> Confounding to me. There isn't much to installing a new cartridge style BB 
> into a new frame...screw it in. That's the problem, in part. There's 
> nothing to correct with install technique. I'd love to be wrong and get it 
> butter smooth like one in my Atlantis, for example.
>
> Please, share your thoughts as to what the source of issue may be and 
> recommended remedy!
>
> Scott in (I want it to be spring, summer, and fall) Montana
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the 
> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/7Uu5LBGsfxQ/unsubscribe
> .
> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to 
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> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/db5d0a09-b8cd-4433-9ffc-cce5be97fd4fn%40googlegroups.com
>  
> 
> .
>

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Re: [RBW] bottom bracket toubleshooting trivia

2023-01-15 Thread 'Scott Luly' via RBW Owners Bunch

Edit correction to my post, please.
Second sentence of third paragraph of original post should read:
When I turn the spindle by hand it is not smooth (definitely some resistance
and a tad sticky), unlike the one I installed in Atlantis or an uninstalled on.

On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 11:44:35 AM MST, 'Scott' via RBW Owners
Bunch wrote:

Hey, Bunch:
Pinging the group's knowledge for input/feedback on an issue I'm having with an
install of a new cartridge style BB in a new frame.
I'm building a new Atlantis and Gus. I installed a new BB (Shimano XTR UN91) in
Atlantis and torqued to spec. It's butterlicious smooth. Installed cranks and
gave them a spin. It's what every man, woman, and child wants.

I installed same BB (also new) in Gus and tightened to spec. When I turn the
spindle by hand it is not smooth (definitely some resistance and a tad sticky)
like the one I installed in Atlantis or an uninstalled one. Why is that? I
checked it before install, and it was butter smooth. I uninstalled it from Gus,
and it spins butter smooth. I reinstalled main body section to spec, and it is
butter smooth, no change. When I install the opposing cup (Shimano calls it an
adapter), at this point is when I begin to notice a notable change in spindle
rotation smoothness.
I've ensured proper shell widths. And I've ensured shell/cartridge faces are
clean and blemish-free.
Of note, opposing cup spins freely during install for about one third the way
to full seat. From there it spins freely part of rotation and not freely
otherwise. I can turn it by hand still using splined-tool, but there is
definitely resistance during part of the rotation. After I can't go any further
by hand, I fully seat with torque wrench.
Could it be that the threads on either side of the shell are not exactly
coplanar, since threads are not continuous from one side of shell to the
other?It shouldn't be a shell facing issue, because the opposing cup doesn't
interface with shell face.
Confounding to me. There isn't much to installing a new cartridge style BB into
a new frame...screw it in. That's the problem, in part. There's nothing to
correct with install technique. I'd love to be wrong and get it butter smooth
like one in my Atlantis, for example.

Please, share your thoughts as to what the source of issue may be and
recommended remedy!
Scott in (I want it to be spring, summer, and fall) Montana

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[RBW] bottom bracket toubleshooting trivia

2023-01-15 Thread 'Scott' via RBW Owners Bunch

Hey, Bunch:

Pinging the group's knowledge for input/feedback on an issue I'm having
with an install of a new cartridge style BB in a new frame.

I'm building a new Atlantis and Gus. I installed a new BB (Shimano XTR
UN91) in Atlantis and torqued to spec. It's butterlicious smooth. Installed
cranks and gave them a spin. It's what every man, woman, and child wants.

I've ensured proper shell widths. And I've ensured shell/cartridge faces
are clean and blemish-free.

Of note, opposing cup spins freely during install for about one third the
way to full seat. From there it spins freely part of rotation and not
freely otherwise. I can turn it by hand still using splined-tool, but there
is definitely resistance during part of the rotation. After I can't go any
further by hand, I fully seat with torque wrench.

Could it be that the threads on either side of the shell are not exactly
coplanar, since threads are not continuous from one side of shell to the
other?
It shouldn't be a shell facing issue, because the opposing cup doesn't
interface with shell face.

Confounding to me. There isn't much to installing a new cartridge style BB
into a new frame...screw it in. That's the problem, in part. There's
nothing to correct with install technique. I'd love to be wrong and get it
butter smooth like one in my Atlantis, for example.

Please, share your thoughts as to what the source of issue may be and
recommended remedy!

Scott in (I want it to be spring, summer, and fall) Montana

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Re: [RBW] bottom bracket toubleshooting trivia

Re: [RBW] bottom bracket toubleshooting trivia

Re: [RBW] bottom bracket toubleshooting trivia

Re: [RBW] bottom bracket toubleshooting trivia

Re: [RBW] bottom bracket toubleshooting trivia

Re: [RBW] bottom bracket toubleshooting trivia

[RBW] bottom bracket toubleshooting trivia

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