Re: [RBW] Darning wool socks
It's called needle felting. http://www.marthastewart.com/907973/felted-sweater-patches - Jenny Washington, DC On Wednesday, October 14, 2015 at 10:03:52 PM UTC-4, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote: > > BTW, what's the wool repair technique where you use a fluff ball of > wool and and needle to re-fill a hole? > > On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 11:39 AM, Aaron Young <1ce...@gmail.com > > wrote: > > Thanks for the suggestions. I'm going to try darning. If I have any > > success I'll report back. > > > > -Aaron Young > > The Dalles, OR > > > > On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 7:45 AM, Patrick Moore > wrote: > >> > >> If you tend to wear holes in good socks, as I do with my big or even > >> longer 2nd toes (heels last forever), and if you want workable but > quick > >> results without having to think much about it, I've long since found > that > >> cross -stitching and crudely reweaving with regular thread and needle > works > >> fine, if it looks crude. The secret is not to pull the gap closed so > much as > >> "cover it up" with thread, though you do in fact pull it together to > some > >> extent. It takes me less than 10 minutes a hole including threading the > >> needle with my poor nearsight vision and putting the kit back into the > >> cupbord. > >> > >> I had several pairs of Rivendell heavy wool socks circa 2008 or so that > my > >> toes wore through in the blink of an eye, and I repeatedly "darned" > these as > >> above until I got tired of doing so and tossed them earlier this year. > >> > >> But my "method" has allowed up to 9 additional lives for certain nice > wool > >> socks. > >> > >> A previous owner of the wonderful Cycles Wolfe Biene retro wool jersey > I > >> own (front pockets!!) fixed several moth holes by carefully sewing > little > >> patches of cloth around the perimeter of the patches, inside the holes. > It's > >> neat, though said person did use white cloth, which I camouflaged with > a > >> yellow marker. It's hard to see the repairs. > >> > >> On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 8:13 AM, Eunice Chang > > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> Here you go: > >>> > >>> http://www.knitty.com/ISSUEsummer08/FEATsum08TT.html - it tells you > all > >>> the equipment you need, such as a darning egg (or mushroom) and > tapestry > >>> needle. > >>> > >>> I don't know how thick the yarn is, but you can probably use sock yarn > if > >>> you go to a yarn shop. They're wool reinforced with a bit of nylon so > they > >>> can stand up to wear and tear. You probably can weave in yarn as many > times > >>> as you want. Avoid short-lived fibers such as merino or angora or > cashmere- > >>> they'll just result in more holes. > >>> > >>> The other option is to get thin (but flexible) felt squares and to sew > it > >>> to the heel. The felt will mold to the heel and might last longer than > the > >>> sock yarn, though it may also stretch the existing area it is > connected to. > >>> > >>> Mostly, though, I just stuff the sock with batting and knot it and > give > >>> it to my dog. > >>> > >>> -E. > >>> > >>> On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 6:47 PM, Aaron Young <1ce...@gmail.com > > wrote: > > The heels of my wool socks I bought from Riv are getting pretty thin. > I > thought I would try to reinforce them by darning. Has anyone tried > that? > Success or failure? Which type of wool did you use? > > Please, help me get out of this heel hole. :) > > Thanks, > > Aaron > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > send > an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com . > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com > . > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > >>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an > >>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com . > >>> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com > . > >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. > >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. > >> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. > >> Other professional writing services. > >> http://www.resumespecialties.com/ > >> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ > >> Patrick Moore > >> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten > >> > >> * > >> The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionles
Re: [RBW] Darning wool socks
That's the stuff! Thanks, Jenny! On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 12:56 PM, Jenny wrote: > It's called needle felting. > > http://www.marthastewart.com/907973/felted-sweater-patches > > > - Jenny > Washington, DC > > On Wednesday, October 14, 2015 at 10:03:52 PM UTC-4, cyclot...@gmail.com > wrote: >> >> BTW, what's the wool repair technique where you use a fluff ball of >> wool and and needle to re-fill a hole? >> >> On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 11:39 AM, Aaron Young <1ce...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > Thanks for the suggestions. I'm going to try darning. If I have any >> > success I'll report back. >> > >> > -Aaron Young >> > The Dalles, OR >> > >> > On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 7:45 AM, Patrick Moore >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> If you tend to wear holes in good socks, as I do with my big or even >> >> longer 2nd toes (heels last forever), and if you want workable but >> >> quick >> >> results without having to think much about it, I've long since found >> >> that >> >> cross -stitching and crudely reweaving with regular thread and needle >> >> works >> >> fine, if it looks crude. The secret is not to pull the gap closed so >> >> much as >> >> "cover it up" with thread, though you do in fact pull it together to >> >> some >> >> extent. It takes me less than 10 minutes a hole including threading the >> >> needle with my poor nearsight vision and putting the kit back into the >> >> cupbord. >> >> >> >> I had several pairs of Rivendell heavy wool socks circa 2008 or so that >> >> my >> >> toes wore through in the blink of an eye, and I repeatedly "darned" >> >> these as >> >> above until I got tired of doing so and tossed them earlier this year. >> >> >> >> But my "method" has allowed up to 9 additional lives for certain nice >> >> wool >> >> socks. >> >> >> >> A previous owner of the wonderful Cycles Wolfe Biene retro wool jersey >> >> I >> >> own (front pockets!!) fixed several moth holes by carefully sewing >> >> little >> >> patches of cloth around the perimeter of the patches, inside the holes. >> >> It's >> >> neat, though said person did use white cloth, which I camouflaged with >> >> a >> >> yellow marker. It's hard to see the repairs. >> >> >> >> On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 8:13 AM, Eunice Chang >> >> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> Here you go: >> >>> >> >>> http://www.knitty.com/ISSUEsummer08/FEATsum08TT.html - it tells you >> >>> all >> >>> the equipment you need, such as a darning egg (or mushroom) and >> >>> tapestry >> >>> needle. >> >>> >> >>> I don't know how thick the yarn is, but you can probably use sock yarn >> >>> if >> >>> you go to a yarn shop. They're wool reinforced with a bit of nylon so >> >>> they >> >>> can stand up to wear and tear. You probably can weave in yarn as many >> >>> times >> >>> as you want. Avoid short-lived fibers such as merino or angora or >> >>> cashmere- >> >>> they'll just result in more holes. >> >>> >> >>> The other option is to get thin (but flexible) felt squares and to sew >> >>> it >> >>> to the heel. The felt will mold to the heel and might last longer than >> >>> the >> >>> sock yarn, though it may also stretch the existing area it is >> >>> connected to. >> >>> >> >>> Mostly, though, I just stuff the sock with batting and knot it and >> >>> give >> >>> it to my dog. >> >>> >> >>> -E. >> >>> >> >>> On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 6:47 PM, Aaron Young <1ce...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> The heels of my wool socks I bought from Riv are getting pretty thin. >> I >> thought I would try to reinforce them by darning. Has anyone tried >> that? >> Success or failure? Which type of wool did you use? >> >> Please, help me get out of this heel hole. :) >> >> Thanks, >> >> Aaron >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >> send >> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> >>> Groups >> >>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >> >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >> >>> an >> >>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. >> >>> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. >> >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. >> >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. >> >> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. >> >> Other professional writing services. >> >> http://www.resumespecialties.com/ >> >> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ >> >> Pat
Re: [RBW] Darning wool socks
Here you go: http://www.knitty.com/ISSUEsummer08/FEATsum08TT.html - it tells you all the equipment you need, such as a darning egg (or mushroom) and tapestry needle. I don't know how thick the yarn is, but you can probably use sock yarn if you go to a yarn shop. They're wool reinforced with a bit of nylon so they can stand up to wear and tear. You probably can weave in yarn as many times as you want. Avoid short-lived fibers such as merino or angora or cashmere- they'll just result in more holes. The other option is to get thin (but flexible) felt squares and to sew it to the heel. The felt will mold to the heel and might last longer than the sock yarn, though it may also stretch the existing area it is connected to. Mostly, though, I just stuff the sock with batting and knot it and give it to my dog. -E. On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 6:47 PM, Aaron Young <1ce...@gmail.com> wrote: > The heels of my wool socks I bought from Riv are getting pretty thin. I > thought I would try to reinforce them by darning. Has anyone tried that? > Success or failure? Which type of wool did you use? > > Please, help me get out of this heel hole. :) > > Thanks, > > Aaron > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Darning wool socks
If you tend to wear holes in good socks, as I do with my big or even longer 2nd toes (heels last forever), and if you want workable but quick results without having to think much about it, I've long since found that cross -stitching and crudely reweaving with regular thread and needle works fine, if it looks crude. The secret is not to pull the gap closed so much as "cover it up" with thread, though you do in fact pull it together to some extent. It takes me less than 10 minutes a hole including threading the needle with my poor nearsight vision and putting the kit back into the cupbord. I had several pairs of Rivendell heavy wool socks circa 2008 or so that my toes wore through in the blink of an eye, and I repeatedly "darned" these as above until I got tired of doing so and tossed them earlier this year. But my "method" has allowed up to 9 additional lives for certain nice wool socks. A previous owner of the wonderful Cycles Wolfe Biene retro wool jersey I own (front pockets!!) fixed several moth holes by carefully sewing little patches of cloth around the perimeter of the patches, inside the holes. It's neat, though said person did use white cloth, which I camouflaged with a yellow marker. It's hard to see the repairs. On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 8:13 AM, Eunice Chang wrote: > Here you go: > > http://www.knitty.com/ISSUEsummer08/FEATsum08TT.html - it tells you all > the equipment you need, such as a darning egg (or mushroom) and tapestry > needle. > > I don't know how thick the yarn is, but you can probably use sock yarn if > you go to a yarn shop. They're wool reinforced with a bit of nylon so they > can stand up to wear and tear. You probably can weave in yarn as many times > as you want. Avoid short-lived fibers such as merino or angora or cashmere- > they'll just result in more holes. > > The other option is to get thin (but flexible) felt squares and to sew it > to the heel. The felt will mold to the heel and might last longer than the > sock yarn, though it may also stretch the existing area it is connected to. > > Mostly, though, I just stuff the sock with batting and knot it and give it > to my dog. > > -E. > > On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 6:47 PM, Aaron Young <1ce...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> The heels of my wool socks I bought from Riv are getting pretty thin. I >> thought I would try to reinforce them by darning. Has anyone tried that? >> Success or failure? Which type of wool did you use? >> >> Please, help me get out of this heel hole. :) >> >> Thanks, >> >> Aaron >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ Patrick Moore Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten * *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu *Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* Carthusian motto -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Darning wool socks
Thanks for the suggestions. I'm going to try darning. If I have any success I'll report back. -Aaron Young The Dalles, OR On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 7:45 AM, Patrick Moore wrote: > If you tend to wear holes in good socks, as I do with my big or even > longer 2nd toes (heels last forever), and if you want workable but quick > results without having to think much about it, I've long since found that > cross -stitching and crudely reweaving with regular thread and needle works > fine, if it looks crude. The secret is not to pull the gap closed so much > as "cover it up" with thread, though you do in fact pull it together to > some extent. It takes me less than 10 minutes a hole including threading > the needle with my poor nearsight vision and putting the kit back into the > cupbord. > > I had several pairs of Rivendell heavy wool socks circa 2008 or so that my > toes wore through in the blink of an eye, and I repeatedly "darned" these > as above until I got tired of doing so and tossed them earlier this year. > > But my "method" has allowed up to 9 additional lives for certain nice wool > socks. > > A previous owner of the wonderful Cycles Wolfe Biene retro wool jersey I > own (front pockets!!) fixed several moth holes by carefully sewing little > patches of cloth around the perimeter of the patches, inside the holes. > It's neat, though said person did use white cloth, which I camouflaged with > a yellow marker. It's hard to see the repairs. > > On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 8:13 AM, Eunice Chang > wrote: > >> Here you go: >> >> http://www.knitty.com/ISSUEsummer08/FEATsum08TT.html - it tells you all >> the equipment you need, such as a darning egg (or mushroom) and tapestry >> needle. >> >> I don't know how thick the yarn is, but you can probably use sock yarn if >> you go to a yarn shop. They're wool reinforced with a bit of nylon so they >> can stand up to wear and tear. You probably can weave in yarn as many times >> as you want. Avoid short-lived fibers such as merino or angora or cashmere- >> they'll just result in more holes. >> >> The other option is to get thin (but flexible) felt squares and to sew it >> to the heel. The felt will mold to the heel and might last longer than the >> sock yarn, though it may also stretch the existing area it is connected to. >> >> Mostly, though, I just stuff the sock with batting and knot it and give >> it to my dog. >> >> -E. >> >> On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 6:47 PM, Aaron Young <1ce...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> The heels of my wool socks I bought from Riv are getting pretty thin. I >>> thought I would try to reinforce them by darning. Has anyone tried that? >>> Success or failure? Which type of wool did you use? >>> >>> Please, help me get out of this heel hole. :) >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Aaron >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > > -- > Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. > By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. > Other professional writing services. > http://www.resumespecialties.com/ > www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ > Patrick Moore > Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten > > * > *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a > circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and > individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu > > *Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* Carthusian motto > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroup
Re: [RBW] Darning wool socks
BTW, what's the wool repair technique where you use a fluff ball of wool and and needle to re-fill a hole? On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 11:39 AM, Aaron Young <1ce...@gmail.com> wrote: > Thanks for the suggestions. I'm going to try darning. If I have any > success I'll report back. > > -Aaron Young > The Dalles, OR > > On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 7:45 AM, Patrick Moore wrote: >> >> If you tend to wear holes in good socks, as I do with my big or even >> longer 2nd toes (heels last forever), and if you want workable but quick >> results without having to think much about it, I've long since found that >> cross -stitching and crudely reweaving with regular thread and needle works >> fine, if it looks crude. The secret is not to pull the gap closed so much as >> "cover it up" with thread, though you do in fact pull it together to some >> extent. It takes me less than 10 minutes a hole including threading the >> needle with my poor nearsight vision and putting the kit back into the >> cupbord. >> >> I had several pairs of Rivendell heavy wool socks circa 2008 or so that my >> toes wore through in the blink of an eye, and I repeatedly "darned" these as >> above until I got tired of doing so and tossed them earlier this year. >> >> But my "method" has allowed up to 9 additional lives for certain nice wool >> socks. >> >> A previous owner of the wonderful Cycles Wolfe Biene retro wool jersey I >> own (front pockets!!) fixed several moth holes by carefully sewing little >> patches of cloth around the perimeter of the patches, inside the holes. It's >> neat, though said person did use white cloth, which I camouflaged with a >> yellow marker. It's hard to see the repairs. >> >> On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 8:13 AM, Eunice Chang >> wrote: >>> >>> Here you go: >>> >>> http://www.knitty.com/ISSUEsummer08/FEATsum08TT.html - it tells you all >>> the equipment you need, such as a darning egg (or mushroom) and tapestry >>> needle. >>> >>> I don't know how thick the yarn is, but you can probably use sock yarn if >>> you go to a yarn shop. They're wool reinforced with a bit of nylon so they >>> can stand up to wear and tear. You probably can weave in yarn as many times >>> as you want. Avoid short-lived fibers such as merino or angora or cashmere- >>> they'll just result in more holes. >>> >>> The other option is to get thin (but flexible) felt squares and to sew it >>> to the heel. The felt will mold to the heel and might last longer than the >>> sock yarn, though it may also stretch the existing area it is connected to. >>> >>> Mostly, though, I just stuff the sock with batting and knot it and give >>> it to my dog. >>> >>> -E. >>> >>> On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 6:47 PM, Aaron Young <1ce...@gmail.com> wrote: The heels of my wool socks I bought from Riv are getting pretty thin. I thought I would try to reinforce them by darning. Has anyone tried that? Success or failure? Which type of wool did you use? Please, help me get out of this heel hole. :) Thanks, Aaron -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. >> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. >> Other professional writing services. >> http://www.resumespecialties.com/ >> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ >> Patrick Moore >> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten >> >> * >> The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a >> circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and >> individualities revolve. Chuang Tzu >> >> Stat crux dum volvitur orbis. Carthusian motto >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bun