Re: [RBW] Handlebar Chronicles

[James Warren]

Of course if we never get around to selling the parts used in our experiments, 
our house guests begin to say to us, "oh, I'll sleep in your guest room with 
the stems!"


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 27, 2016, at 3:45 PM, dougP 

> A bit of fiddling here, changing there, & voila!  In a couple of years you'll 
> be posting "FS" ads here.  How do you think we all have all this stuff for 
> sale?  Join in the fun.  
> 
> Forget Option A; that's just too common sensical & no fun at all.  Option D 
> sounds like a grand adventure (if he got his crate, that would help you pull 
> off this switcheroo), while Option E sounds positively exciting (especially 
> given the perceived risk).  I'll leave comments on Options B & C to those 
> with experience with those bars.
> 
> You won't be able to rest until you change something, so just go for it.  
> 
> dougP  
> 

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Re: [RBW] Handlebar Chronicles

[Allingham II, Thomas J. (Retired Partner)]

Don't ever like to disagree with smart guys like Bill, Deac and Mark, but much 
as I like Bullmoose bars of all types, the Bosco Bullmoose (which I have on two 
bikes) is perfect on one (Mystery Bike) and only ok on the other (MB-2 
Resurrectio), and the reason is bar grip angle (which is, I think, very 
sensitive to frame size and geometry).

I really do love Boscos, though, so I'd vote for whichever option involves 
getting the regular Boscos and finding a stem to fit.  Someone said stems are 
pretty cheap used on this list, and I agree 100%.  I must have half a dozen 
reasonably nice ones I'd sell for a very reasonable price, and a couple of 
serviceable ones I'd let go for the cost of shipping.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 28, 2016, at 11:16 AM, Jeff Lesperance 
mailto:jeff.lespera...@gmail.com>> wrote:

And when the angle and reach aren't quite right for her riding style and 
anatomy Buy a separate bar and stem? Bar angle is not complex and minor 
angles do matter for some folks, same for reach.

On Thursday, July 28, 2016, Deacon Patrick 
mailto:lamontg...@mac.com>> wrote:
Bill and Mark nailed it. Cut through the noise and complexity: Bosco Bulls.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Thursday, July 28, 2016 at 6:32:09 AM UTC-6, Mark in Beacon wrote:
I have both versions and I agree with Bill. Bosco Bulls! Or lie down and wait 
for the feeling to pass.

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Re: [RBW] Handlebar Chronicles

[Jim D Massachusetts]

Another data point. I agree with Jeff and ponder. Get the regular Boscos, 
then get whatever stem you need to make them perfect.Jim D 
  Massachusetts

On Wednesday, July 27, 2016 at 5:30:04 PM UTC-4, LeahFoy wrote:
>
> I finally got around to calling Riv. Brian asked about my current stem 
> length, which of course I don't know - I said, "Whatever a 55 BF came with 
> in late 2012". He instructed me to measure it. Then he got to thinking that 
> maybe it would just be better to spring for the Bosco bull moose and not 
> mess with the stem at all. He suspects I probably need a longer one because 
> the Bosco bar ends will be a full 2 inches closer to me. Pricey. And who 
> knows if these bars are even going to feel right on this bike. Just because 
> I liked them on the Clem means nothing for the BF. Your thoughts? Would you:
> A.) Leave well enough alone, you idiot.
> B.) Try Bosco bars with whatever stem is already on the bike.
> C.) Get the Bullmoose Boscos and be done with it.
> D.) Steal the Clem and convince husband that the BF is actually his bike.
> E.) Buy a Clementine and wait to be served with divorce papers.
> F.) All of the above.
>
> ***Also, I can't switch our bars to see how I like it. I have to pay a LBS 
> do the work AND I'm hiding these bars from my husband who will be appalled 
> that I'm spending more money on this bike of mine.***
>

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Re: [RBW] Handlebar Chronicles

[Jeff Lesperance]

And when the angle and reach aren't quite right for her riding style and
anatomy Buy a separate bar and stem? Bar angle is not complex and minor
angles do matter for some folks, same for reach.

On Thursday, July 28, 2016, Deacon Patrick  wrote:

> Bill and Mark nailed it. Cut through the noise and complexity: Bosco Bulls.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> On Thursday, July 28, 2016 at 6:32:09 AM UTC-6, Mark in Beacon wrote:
>>
>> I have both versions and I agree with Bill. Bosco Bulls! Or lie down and
>> wait for the feeling to pass.
>
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Re: [RBW] Handlebar Chronicles

[Deacon Patrick]

Bill and Mark nailed it. Cut through the noise and complexity: Bosco Bulls.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Thursday, July 28, 2016 at 6:32:09 AM UTC-6, Mark in Beacon wrote:
>
> I have both versions and I agree with Bill. Bosco Bulls! Or lie down and 
> wait for the feeling to pass.

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Re: [RBW] Handlebar Chronicles

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I have both versions and I agree with Bill. Bosco Bulls! Or lie down and wait 
for the feeling to pass.

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Re: [RBW] Handlebar Chronicles

[Pondero]

Another option...buy the non-bullmoose Boscos and use with your current 
stem TEMPORARILY until you find where your hands like to be on the swept 
back part of the bar.  Measure between that spot and the end of the bar, 
and buy a stem THAT much longer than the one you have.

Chris Johnson
Sanger, Texas

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Re: [RBW] Handlebar Chronicles

[Justin August]

A.) Leave well enough alone, you idiot.
I think there's some value in that. 

B.) Try Bosco bars with whatever stem is already on the bike.
I wouldn't. Those Boscos come back miles. 

C.) Get the Bullmoose Boscos and be done with it.
I wouldn't as you're not sure if the reach and tilt of the bar are appropriate 
for you yet. 

D.) Steal the Clem and convince husband that the BF is actually his bike.
I would support this 

E.) Buy a Clementine and wait to be served with divorce papers.
This seems reasonable. 

F.) All of the above.

I would add a G) which is really just a permutation of B. Get Boscos, try them 
and then buy a stem that's 2-5cm longer when you realize the bars come back too 
far.

Then there's H) which is do any of the above and then swap it back to Albas in 
3-6 months when you start missing them. 

-Justin

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Re: [RBW] Handlebar Chronicles

[Bill Lindsay]

I vote for C)  Bosco Bullmooses are great.  Perfect, even.  Not being able 
to screw up the angle and not being able to fiddle with the angle are 
features, not bugs, in my opinion.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Wednesday, July 27, 2016 at 2:30:04 PM UTC-7, LeahFoy wrote:
>
> I finally got around to calling Riv. Brian asked about my current stem 
> length, which of course I don't know - I said, "Whatever a 55 BF came with 
> in late 2012". He instructed me to measure it. Then he got to thinking that 
> maybe it would just be better to spring for the Bosco bull moose and not 
> mess with the stem at all. He suspects I probably need a longer one because 
> the Bosco bar ends will be a full 2 inches closer to me. Pricey. And who 
> knows if these bars are even going to feel right on this bike. Just because 
> I liked them on the Clem means nothing for the BF. Your thoughts? Would you:
> A.) Leave well enough alone, you idiot.
> B.) Try Bosco bars with whatever stem is already on the bike.
> C.) Get the Bullmoose Boscos and be done with it.
> D.) Steal the Clem and convince husband that the BF is actually his bike.
> E.) Buy a Clementine and wait to be served with divorce papers.
> F.) All of the above.
>
> ***Also, I can't switch our bars to see how I like it. I have to pay a LBS 
> do the work AND I'm hiding these bars from my husband who will be appalled 
> that I'm spending more money on this bike of mine.***
>

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Re: [RBW] Handlebar Chronicles

[David Person]

The one advantage of separate bars and stem is that it allows you to adjust 
the angle of the bars.  With the Bullmoose style the bar and stem are one 
unit, fixed at a certain angle, so you can't change the position of the 
grips like you can if you have separate bars and stem.

I vote for B.

On Wednesday, July 27, 2016 at 2:30:04 PM UTC-7, LeahFoy wrote:
>
> I finally got around to calling Riv. Brian asked about my current stem 
> length, which of course I don't know - I said, "Whatever a 55 BF came with 
> in late 2012". He instructed me to measure it. Then he got to thinking that 
> maybe it would just be better to spring for the Bosco bull moose and not 
> mess with the stem at all. He suspects I probably need a longer one because 
> the Bosco bar ends will be a full 2 inches closer to me. Pricey. And who 
> knows if these bars are even going to feel right on this bike. Just because 
> I liked them on the Clem means nothing for the BF. Your thoughts? Would you:
> A.) Leave well enough alone, you idiot.
> B.) Try Bosco bars with whatever stem is already on the bike.
> C.) Get the Bullmoose Boscos and be done with it.
> D.) Steal the Clem and convince husband that the BF is actually his bike.
> E.) Buy a Clementine and wait to be served with divorce papers.
> F.) All of the above.
>
> ***Also, I can't switch our bars to see how I like it. I have to pay a LBS 
> do the work AND I'm hiding these bars from my husband who will be appalled 
> that I'm spending more money on this bike of mine.***
>

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Re: [RBW] Handlebar Chronicles

[Joe Bernard]

Oh, I forgot to answer A). Your description of riding with fingertips at the 
end of rides tells me the Albas don't reach back enough. When I rode the 
Bosco-ed Clem at RBW I alternated between the rear grips, and resting at the 
tops of the curves like hoods on a dropbar. I think you'll like it. 

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Re: [RBW] Handlebar Chronicles

[Joe Bernard]

I suspect Brian is right about stem length - them Boscos come WAY back - which 
means you're in for the same cash whether you buy separate pieces or the 
Bullmoose. I would pop for the Bullmoose, especially because they'll have more 
appeal on this list if you decide to remove and sell. My totally uneducated 
personal hunch is there isn't much market for regular Boscos because they 
almost always require a longer stem, too. Have fun!

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Re: [RBW] Handlebar Chronicles

[Jeff Lesperance]

I would not invest in a bullmoose style of handlebar unless I was positive
that the effective reach and angle were spot-on, so I vote B. IMHO
bullmoose bars are a fashion upgrade once fit is fully sorted. I'm sure the
Bosco Bullmoose is very forgiving in the reach department, but I know that
many folks who use swept-back bars use a variety of angles that the bars
sit at which affects the angle your wrists sit at when gripping the bar
pending reach - this is not adjustable on a bullmoose bar. If one strictly
rides short distance, then maybe none of this matters, but as you tack on
more miles per ride, this fit element can have a major impact on your
enjoyment or lack thereof. If you're smitten with the Bosco bar then I'd
recommend the standard version paired with your existing stem so that you
can confirm reach and angle that you prefer. Stems can often be found for
sale second-hand at a good bargain on this list if you find you need more
or less stem length and they are far easier to resell and ship, just from a
packing perspective, once you find the right one, vs. trying to resell a
Bosco bullmoose if it doesn't work for you.

-Jeff
Silver Spring, MD

On Wednesday, July 27, 2016, LeahFoy  wrote:

> I finally got around to calling Riv. Brian asked about my current stem
> length, which of course I don't know - I said, "Whatever a 55 BF came with
> in late 2012". He instructed me to measure it. Then he got to thinking that
> maybe it would just be better to spring for the Bosco bull moose and not
> mess with the stem at all. He suspects I probably need a longer one because
> the Bosco bar ends will be a full 2 inches closer to me. Pricey. And who
> knows if these bars are even going to feel right on this bike. Just because
> I liked them on the Clem means nothing for the BF. Your thoughts? Would you:
> A.) Leave well enough alone, you idiot.
> B.) Try Bosco bars with whatever stem is already on the bike.
> C.) Get the Bullmoose Boscos and be done with it.
> D.) Steal the Clem and convince husband that the BF is actually his bike.
> E.) Buy a Clementine and wait to be served with divorce papers.
> F.) All of the above.
>
> ***Also, I can't switch our bars to see how I like it. I have to pay a LBS
> do the work AND I'm hiding these bars from my husband who will be appalled
> that I'm spending more money on this bike of mine.***
>
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Re: [RBW] Handlebar Chronicles

[dougP]

Leah:

Buying quality bike accessories is NOT spending; it's investing.  A bit of 
fiddling here, changing there, & voila!  In a couple of years you'll be 
posting "FS" ads here.  How do you think we all have all this stuff for 
sale?  Join in the fun.  

Forget Option A; that's just too common sensical & no fun at all.  Option D 
sounds like a grand adventure (if he got his crate, that would help you 
pull off this switcheroo), while Option E sounds positively exciting 
(especially given the perceived risk).  I'll leave comments on Options B & 
C to those with experience with those bars.

You won't be able to rest until you change something, so just go for it.  

dougP  

On Wednesday, July 27, 2016 at 2:30:04 PM UTC-7, LeahFoy wrote:
>
> I finally got around to calling Riv. Brian asked about my current stem 
> length, which of course I don't know - I said, "Whatever a 55 BF came with 
> in late 2012". He instructed me to measure it. Then he got to thinking that 
> maybe it would just be better to spring for the Bosco bull moose and not 
> mess with the stem at all. He suspects I probably need a longer one because 
> the Bosco bar ends will be a full 2 inches closer to me. Pricey. And who 
> knows if these bars are even going to feel right on this bike. Just because 
> I liked them on the Clem means nothing for the BF. Your thoughts? Would you:
> A.) Leave well enough alone, you idiot.
> B.) Try Bosco bars with whatever stem is already on the bike.
> C.) Get the Bullmoose Boscos and be done with it.
> D.) Steal the Clem and convince husband that the BF is actually his bike.
> E.) Buy a Clementine and wait to be served with divorce papers.
> F.) All of the above.
>
> ***Also, I can't switch our bars to see how I like it. I have to pay a LBS 
> do the work AND I'm hiding these bars from my husband who will be appalled 
> that I'm spending more money on this bike of mine.***
>

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Re: [RBW] Handlebar Chronicles

[LeahFoy]

I finally got around to calling Riv. Brian asked about my current stem length, 
which of course I don't know - I said, "Whatever a 55 BF came with in late 
2012". He instructed me to measure it. Then he got to thinking that maybe it 
would just be better to spring for the Bosco bull moose and not mess with the 
stem at all. He suspects I probably need a longer one because the Bosco bar 
ends will be a full 2 inches closer to me. Pricey. And who knows if these bars 
are even going to feel right on this bike. Just because I liked them on the 
Clem means nothing for the BF. Your thoughts? Would you:
A.) Leave well enough alone, you idiot.
B.) Try Bosco bars with whatever stem is already on the bike.
C.) Get the Bullmoose Boscos and be done with it.
D.) Steal the Clem and convince husband that the BF is actually his bike.
E.) Buy a Clementine and wait to be served with divorce papers.
F.) All of the above.

***Also, I can't switch our bars to see how I like it. I have to pay a LBS do 
the work AND I'm hiding these bars from my husband who will be appalled that 
I'm spending more money on this bike of mine.***

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Re: [RBW] Handlebar Chronicles

[masmojo]

Honestly,  I prefer the albatross for all around riding,  Bosco's are fine, but 
they are even more sensitive to bar height adjustment.  Just raising mine 1/4" 
was a huge improvement and difference in feel. Additionally,  they might not 
feel as good on your bike as they do on your husband's.
Maybe you could do a short term swap!? 

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Re: [RBW] Handlebar Chronicles

[Leah Peterson]

Excellent point. I think my Albatrosses cause a fair amount of lean. I say so 
because I feel like my elbows are locked and after a long ride, they’re stiff 
and I have to sit up and use my fingertips to grip the bar. I’ll call Riv today 
and maybe they can give me all the mystical answers I seek.
> On Jul 25, 2016, at 8:37 AM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
> 
> Leah, I didn't like the Boscos on my 45 Clem - the height and reach-back 
> cramped the cockpit for me - but they were great on the 52 Clem I rode at 
> RBW. If you have a good amount of lean into your Albas then these bars will 
> work; if you're already sitting bolt upright, then Boscos will exaggerate 
> that sensation too much. 
> 
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Re: [RBW] Handlebar Chronicles

[Joe Bernard]

Leah, I didn't like the Boscos on my 45 Clem - the height and reach-back 
cramped the cockpit for me - but they were great on the 52 Clem I rode at RBW. 
If you have a good amount of lean into your Albas then these bars will work; if 
you're already sitting bolt upright, then Boscos will exaggerate that sensation 
too much. 

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Re: [RBW] Handlebar Chronicles

[LeahFoy]

Joe - which bar did you prefer on your Clem? (I know you didn't have your Clem 
long, but still...) And if you're correct and my shifters will transfer to the 
Bosco bar, all the better. I LOVE the look of my silver shifters and nothing 
else will do.

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Re: [RBW] Handlebar Chronicles

[Eric Daume]

Why would anyone buy the bullmoose version of the Bosco, though? Loosing
the adjustability of the stem length and angle is a huge price to pay for
the retro vibe.

Eric

On Sun, Jul 24, 2016 at 10:53 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:

> Leah, I believe the 52 Clem and 55 Betty have similar toptube lengths, so
> you should theoretically be able to replicate the riding position with his
> Bosco Bullmoose model on your bike. The pics I've seen of your bikes show
> that the stem length is similar with both bars you've ridden. Your levers
> and shifters will transfer easily, but you may need linger cables. I've run
> both bars on my Clem, and Boscos are TALL.
>
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Re: [RBW] Handlebar Chronicles

[Patrick Moore]

You now are officially diagnose with the horrible disease of *chronicus
bicyclus upgraditis.* There is no cure; you can only relieve the symptoms
by buying new stuff. Go for it!

On Sun, Jul 24, 2016 at 2:10 PM, LeahFoy  wrote:

> A terrible thing happened this vacation. I lent my Betty Foy, the bike I
> swore was perfect in every way possible, to a relative and rode my
> husband's 52 Clem. I swear I didn't mean to cheat, and it was only a few
> rides, but alas, I'm now feeling dissatisfied with my Albatross bars and
> have an unhealthy desire to have whatever those bars on the Clem are. It's
> so unexpected; as I said, it was just a few rides, but now my bars feel so
> LOW. They're maxed out as high as I can put them, so what else is there to
> do? I am leery of changing bars because there are all these SIZES and
> MEASUREMENTS and talk of the bars being closer to you and top tube length,
> blah blah. Not a language I speak. I only understand that those are
> comfortable bars and I want them on my bike, but I don't know which bars
> and if they will work, and it looks like a lot of work and expense to make
> the swap. I've thought I may call Riv and chat with them, but I always get
> starstruck and tongue-tied when I call them.
>
> So, I come to you.
>
> I have a 55 Betty with Albatross bars.
> 1. Can a Bosco-type bar work? What about all this top tube talk?
> 2. What is really the difference between Bosco and Bullmoose?
> 3. How do you choose the sizes?
> 4. Why is the Bullmoose so expensive compared to Bosco?
> 5. I have a steep uphill commute home from the boys' school. Can you stand
> up and pedal/climb with a Bosco bar?
> 6. Am I going to mess up all the other stuff I like about the fit of my
> Betty if I change bars?
>
> If I'm better off calling Riv, I'll do it. But if you have sage advice
> prior to me making that awkward phone call, I'll take it. Ha!
>
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*The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a
circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and
individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu

*Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the
world revolves.) *Carthusian motto

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*Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle

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