Re: [RBW] Re: 40-ish mm Tires on Thinner Rims?

[RichS]

It may be the same BQ article where Jan stated that rim width is not 
critical when riding supple tires.

Regards,
Richard  

On Tuesday, November 29, 2016 at 1:27:09 PM UTC-5, lum gim fong wrote:
>
> One of the recent  bicycle quarterly magazine is had a article about rims 
> and tire wits.

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Re: [RBW] Re: 40-ish mm Tires on Thinner Rims?

[Jon Dukeman,central Colorado]

>From the Mavic web site:
https://shop.mavic.com/en-us/open-pro-c-j24200.html


>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: 40-ish mm Tires on Thinner Rims?

[Bill in Roswell GA]

Yup. Thanks for point that out Steve. Sheldon's site is still the standard 
reference point. 

Cheers,
Bill in Roswell, GA

On Tuesday, November 29, 2016 at 1:23:59 PM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
>
>
> On 11/29/2016 11:37 AM, Scott Henry wrote:
>
> Please remember the source for your info.
> Sheldon died almost a decade ago.Much has changed since then, if you 
> are looking for any current info, that's not the place to look.
>
>
>
> And yet, they keep updating the site, in his honor.   It's far from a 
> static memorial.
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: 40-ish mm Tires on Thinner Rims?

[Bill in Roswell GA]

Paul,
Any Cyclocross racer that raced as Scott said "back in Sheldon's day" ran 
tires marked as 35mm but measured 32mm on Open Pro rims. That was a 
standard CX racing setup. I still run the same setup on my classic steel CX 
bike.

I did try running Pasela 35s on Open Pros and they were OK as long as I had 
about 70-75 lbs in the rear. Otherwise I would feel the rear squirm around 
on fast curves. For some reason (traction?) the squirm is more apparent on 
pavement. The tire didn't mind, but I found it a bit disconcerting!

Cheers,
Bill in Roswell, GA

On Tuesday, November 29, 2016 at 12:14:57 PM UTC-5, Paul Clifton wrote:
>
> Thanks for the clarification y'all. Seems like, as is the case with most 
> bike things, a few mm doesn't make much difference.
>
> Sheldon hasn't steered my wrong yet, but I do try to find a second source 
> usually. Here's another, slightly less conservative chart from 
> http://www.slowtwitch.com/Tech/Implications_of_Rim_Width_2803.html
>
> It still puts the 15c Open Pro way down on the skinny end and pretty much 
> backs up Sheldon's chart. What's noteworthy to me is that 17c and wider 
> will match well with any tire that I've every had a bike for. I do wonder 
> why the 17c to 21c seem to match with a broader set of sizes, but as long 
> as my wheels stay on the rim and the bike rolls and turns normally, I'm 
> fine.
>
> It's also noteworthy that the article is focused on how skinny you can get 
> your tires. Different strokes I guess.
>
>
>
> Paul in ATL
>
> On Tuesday, November 29, 2016 at 11:52:03 AM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> It's not?
>>
>> Which tyre fits safely on which rim?
>> [all dimensions in millimeters]
>> Tyre width
>> Rim width
>> (interior)1820232528323537404447505457
>> 13 X X X X
>> 15 X X X X
>> 17   X X X X X
>> 19 X X X X X X
>> 21 X X X X X X
>> 23 X X X X
>> 25   X X X X X
>> Note: This chart may err a bit on the side of caution. Many cyclists 
>> exceed the recommended widths with no problem.
>>
>> [image: Spoke divider]
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 9:37 AM, Scott Henry  wrote:
>>
>>> Please remember the source for your info.
>>> Sheldon died almost a decade ago.Much has changed since then, if you 
>>> are looking for any current info, that's not the place to look.
>>>
>>> Back in his day, 35's were huge tires.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 9:24 AM, Paul Clifton  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Well, now I'm confused a bit.

 How much wiggle room do rims have on the max tire size, or does it 
 depend on the rim shape?

 Have any wide tires ever popped off any narrow rims?

 I've been wheel shopping. I want to use mostly 38mm tires. The Open Pro 
 is 15mm wide on the inside and is rated for up to 28mm tires (
 https://shop.mavic.com/en-us/open-pro-c-j24200.html). Sheldon Brown 
 has a table that puts 19mm wide rims in my sweet spot: 
 www.sheldonbrown.com/tire-sizing.html#width

 It's been tricky to find a budget wheelset with both a 19mm or wider 
 rim and a 130mm rear hub. So far the only reasonable option I've found 
 uses 
 a Velocity Dyad (
 http://harriscyclery.net/product/velocity-700c-dyad-rs400-tiagra-wheel-set-36-spoke-3247.htm
 ).

 But I have a lot more options if a 40mm tire works well on a 15mm wide 
 rim. So what gives?

 Also, anyone have any wheels for sale with medium-wide rims and 130mm 
 rear hub?

 On Tuesday, November 29, 2016 at 8:24:28 AM UTC-5, Skenry wrote:
>
> You are good to upsize on those rims, look at a mountainbike 
> someday.Tires can easily triple the rim width.
>
> As for tire, I actually recommend these from Pmart
>
> http://www.performancebike.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10052_10551_1168230_-1_400904__400904
>
> Cheap as all get out, not too heavy and they perform really well.
> They are my go-to tire for non racing cross bikes anymore.   Did I 
> mention 
> cheap?
> Scott
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 7:05 AM, 'Mark Etze' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>> I have that exact set up, Mavic Open Pro's with 40mm Clement MSO's. I 
>> run them at 60psi and they have been great with out any squirliness at 
>> all 
>> and no flats with 1500 miles on them.
>>
>> -- 
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Re: [RBW] Re: 40-ish mm Tires on Thinner Rims?

[Scott Henry]

True, sheldon's site does get updated.Once a month, its almost as if
they figured out how to stay on the top half of the page for search results
on the web.
The bearded one was very bike savvy (albeit very cautious and traditional),
the new webmaster... we'll just say the updates are very QBP update-ish.

He can run whatever tires he wants.





On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 1:23 PM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:

>
>
> On 11/29/2016 11:37 AM, Scott Henry wrote:
>
> Please remember the source for your info.
> Sheldon died almost a decade ago.Much has changed since then, if you
> are looking for any current info, that's not the place to look.
>
>
>
> And yet, they keep updating the site, in his honor.   It's far from a
> static memorial.
>
>
> --
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> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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Re: [RBW] Re: 40-ish mm Tires on Thinner Rims?

[lum gim fong]

One of the recent  bicycle quarterly magazine is had a article about rims and 
tire wits.

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Re: [RBW] Re: 40-ish mm Tires on Thinner Rims?

[Steve Palincsar]

On 11/29/2016 11:37 AM, Scott Henry wrote:

Please remember the source for your info.
Sheldon died almost a decade ago.Much has changed since then, if 
you are looking for any current info, that's not the place to look.



And yet, they keep updating the site, in his honor.   It's far from a 
static memorial.



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Re: [RBW] Re: 40-ish mm Tires on Thinner Rims?

[lum gim fong]

I have two 135 wheelsets for sale. Too bad.

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Re: [RBW] Re: 40-ish mm Tires on Thinner Rims?

[Paul Clifton]

Thanks for the clarification y'all. Seems like, as is the case with most 
bike things, a few mm doesn't make much difference.

Sheldon hasn't steered my wrong yet, but I do try to find a second source 
usually. Here's another, slightly less conservative chart from 
http://www.slowtwitch.com/Tech/Implications_of_Rim_Width_2803.html

It still puts the 15c Open Pro way down on the skinny end and pretty much 
backs up Sheldon's chart. What's noteworthy to me is that 17c and wider 
will match well with any tire that I've every had a bike for. I do wonder 
why the 17c to 21c seem to match with a broader set of sizes, but as long 
as my wheels stay on the rim and the bike rolls and turns normally, I'm 
fine.

It's also noteworthy that the article is focused on how skinny you can get 
your tires. Different strokes I guess.



Paul in ATL

On Tuesday, November 29, 2016 at 11:52:03 AM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> It's not?
>
> Which tyre fits safely on which rim?
> [all dimensions in millimeters]
> Tyre width
> Rim width
> (interior)1820232528323537404447505457
> 13 X X X X
> 15 X X X X
> 17   X X X X X
> 19 X X X X X X
> 21 X X X X X X
> 23 X X X X
> 25   X X X X X
> Note: This chart may err a bit on the side of caution. Many cyclists 
> exceed the recommended widths with no problem.
>
> [image: Spoke divider]
>
> On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 9:37 AM, Scott Henry  > wrote:
>
>> Please remember the source for your info.
>> Sheldon died almost a decade ago.Much has changed since then, if you 
>> are looking for any current info, that's not the place to look.
>>
>> Back in his day, 35's were huge tires.
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 9:24 AM, Paul Clifton > > wrote:
>>
>>> Well, now I'm confused a bit.
>>>
>>> How much wiggle room do rims have on the max tire size, or does it 
>>> depend on the rim shape?
>>>
>>> Have any wide tires ever popped off any narrow rims?
>>>
>>> I've been wheel shopping. I want to use mostly 38mm tires. The Open Pro 
>>> is 15mm wide on the inside and is rated for up to 28mm tires (
>>> https://shop.mavic.com/en-us/open-pro-c-j24200.html). Sheldon Brown has 
>>> a table that puts 19mm wide rims in my sweet spot: 
>>> www.sheldonbrown.com/tire-sizing.html#width
>>>
>>> It's been tricky to find a budget wheelset with both a 19mm or wider rim 
>>> and a 130mm rear hub. So far the only reasonable option I've found uses a 
>>> Velocity Dyad (
>>> http://harriscyclery.net/product/velocity-700c-dyad-rs400-tiagra-wheel-set-36-spoke-3247.htm
>>> ).
>>>
>>> But I have a lot more options if a 40mm tire works well on a 15mm wide 
>>> rim. So what gives?
>>>
>>> Also, anyone have any wheels for sale with medium-wide rims and 130mm 
>>> rear hub?
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, November 29, 2016 at 8:24:28 AM UTC-5, Skenry wrote:

 You are good to upsize on those rims, look at a mountainbike 
 someday.Tires can easily triple the rim width.

 As for tire, I actually recommend these from Pmart

 http://www.performancebike.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10052_10551_1168230_-1_400904__400904

 Cheap as all get out, not too heavy and they perform really well.
 They are my go-to tire for non racing cross bikes anymore.   Did I mention 
 cheap?
 Scott


 On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 7:05 AM, 'Mark Etze' via RBW Owners Bunch <
 rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> I have that exact set up, Mavic Open Pro's with 40mm Clement MSO's. I 
> run them at 60psi and they have been great with out any squirliness at 
> all 
> and no flats with 1500 miles on them.
>
> -- 
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>

 -- 
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>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: 40-ish mm Tires on Thinner Rims?

[Patrick Moore]

It's not?

Which tyre fits safely on which rim?
[all dimensions in millimeters]
Tyre width
Rim width
(interior)1820232528323537404447505457
13 X X X X
15 X X X X
17   X X X X X
19 X X X X X X
21 X X X X X X
23 X X X X
25   X X X X X
Note: This chart may err a bit on the side of caution. Many cyclists exceed
the recommended widths with no problem.

[image: Spoke divider]

On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 9:37 AM, Scott Henry  wrote:

> Please remember the source for your info.
> Sheldon died almost a decade ago.Much has changed since then, if you
> are looking for any current info, that's not the place to look.
>
> Back in his day, 35's were huge tires.
>
> On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 9:24 AM, Paul Clifton 
> wrote:
>
>> Well, now I'm confused a bit.
>>
>> How much wiggle room do rims have on the max tire size, or does it depend
>> on the rim shape?
>>
>> Have any wide tires ever popped off any narrow rims?
>>
>> I've been wheel shopping. I want to use mostly 38mm tires. The Open Pro
>> is 15mm wide on the inside and is rated for up to 28mm tires (
>> https://shop.mavic.com/en-us/open-pro-c-j24200.html). Sheldon Brown has
>> a table that puts 19mm wide rims in my sweet spot:
>> www.sheldonbrown.com/tire-sizing.html#width
>>
>> It's been tricky to find a budget wheelset with both a 19mm or wider rim
>> and a 130mm rear hub. So far the only reasonable option I've found uses a
>> Velocity Dyad (http://harriscyclery.net/product/velocity-700c-dyad-rs400-
>> tiagra-wheel-set-36-spoke-3247.htm).
>>
>> But I have a lot more options if a 40mm tire works well on a 15mm wide
>> rim. So what gives?
>>
>> Also, anyone have any wheels for sale with medium-wide rims and 130mm
>> rear hub?
>>
>> On Tuesday, November 29, 2016 at 8:24:28 AM UTC-5, Skenry wrote:
>>>
>>> You are good to upsize on those rims, look at a mountainbike someday.
>>> Tires can easily triple the rim width.
>>>
>>> As for tire, I actually recommend these from Pmart
>>> http://www.performancebike.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Pro
>>> duct_10052_10551_1168230_-1_400904__400904
>>>
>>> Cheap as all get out, not too heavy and they perform really well.
>>> They are my go-to tire for non racing cross bikes anymore.   Did I mention
>>> cheap?
>>> Scott
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 7:05 AM, 'Mark Etze' via RBW Owners Bunch <
>>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>
 I have that exact set up, Mavic Open Pro's with 40mm Clement MSO's. I
 run them at 60psi and they have been great with out any squirliness at all
 and no flats with 1500 miles on them.

 --
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 Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>>>
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>
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Re: [RBW] Re: 40-ish mm Tires on Thinner Rims?

[Scott Henry]

Please remember the source for your info.
Sheldon died almost a decade ago.Much has changed since then, if you
are looking for any current info, that's not the place to look.

Back in his day, 35's were huge tires.

On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 9:24 AM, Paul Clifton 
wrote:

> Well, now I'm confused a bit.
>
> How much wiggle room do rims have on the max tire size, or does it depend
> on the rim shape?
>
> Have any wide tires ever popped off any narrow rims?
>
> I've been wheel shopping. I want to use mostly 38mm tires. The Open Pro is
> 15mm wide on the inside and is rated for up to 28mm tires (
> https://shop.mavic.com/en-us/open-pro-c-j24200.html). Sheldon Brown has a
> table that puts 19mm wide rims in my sweet spot:
> www.sheldonbrown.com/tire-sizing.html#width
>
> It's been tricky to find a budget wheelset with both a 19mm or wider rim
> and a 130mm rear hub. So far the only reasonable option I've found uses a
> Velocity Dyad (http://harriscyclery.net/product/velocity-700c-dyad-
> rs400-tiagra-wheel-set-36-spoke-3247.htm).
>
> But I have a lot more options if a 40mm tire works well on a 15mm wide
> rim. So what gives?
>
> Also, anyone have any wheels for sale with medium-wide rims and 130mm rear
> hub?
>
> On Tuesday, November 29, 2016 at 8:24:28 AM UTC-5, Skenry wrote:
>>
>> You are good to upsize on those rims, look at a mountainbike someday.
>> Tires can easily triple the rim width.
>>
>> As for tire, I actually recommend these from Pmart
>> http://www.performancebike.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Pro
>> duct_10052_10551_1168230_-1_400904__400904
>>
>> Cheap as all get out, not too heavy and they perform really well.They
>> are my go-to tire for non racing cross bikes anymore.   Did I mention cheap?
>> Scott
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 7:05 AM, 'Mark Etze' via RBW Owners Bunch <
>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I have that exact set up, Mavic Open Pro's with 40mm Clement MSO's. I
>>> run them at 60psi and they have been great with out any squirliness at all
>>> and no flats with 1500 miles on them.
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>>>
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: 40-ish mm Tires on Thinner Rims?

[Patrick Moore]

You are better off with rims that "match" the tires; Sheldon Brown had
ideas about this and a chart for them. But it's not *necessary.*

With wider rims you'll get slightly wider tires and less sidewall flop at
lower pressures; you'll also find that your sidewalls don't flex as much
for comfort at a given pressure -- you may want to drop the pressure. I
know that 60 mm Big Apples measured 60 mm on 35 mm (outside) rims and 65 mm
on 44 mm rims. Elk Passes measure 27 mm on 18 mm rims and 29 mm on 23 mm
rims; and so on.

When I swapped from 35 mm rims to 44 mm SnoCats, the profile of the tire
changed; it was flatter and not as tall. The tire felt harsher at 25 psi
and I started to run them 5 or so psi less.

OTOH, with skinny rims, if you keep the pressure high enough, you'll be
fine. There is a theoretical danger that too wide a tire at too high a
pressure on too skinny a rim might blow damaged sidewalls apart, but AFAIK
that will happen only with extremes or damaged rim walls.

In 1991, it was common to sell 18 or 19 mm rims to hold 2" tires; I know, I
used them for thousands of miles and still use these rims for road tires.
The rims were bulletproof and the tires flopped in corners if you got much
below 30 psi.



On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 7:24 AM, Paul Clifton 
wrote:

> Well, now I'm confused a bit.
>
> How much wiggle room do rims have on the max tire size, or does it depend
> on the rim shape?
>
> Have any wide tires ever popped off any narrow rims?
>
> I've been wheel shopping. I want to use mostly 38mm tires. The Open Pro is
> 15mm wide on the inside and is rated for up to 28mm tires (
> https://shop.mavic.com/en-us/open-pro-c-j24200.html). Sheldon Brown has a
> table that puts 19mm wide rims in my sweet spot:
> www.sheldonbrown.com/tire-sizing.html#width
>
> It's been tricky to find a budget wheelset with both a 19mm or wider rim
> and a 130mm rear hub. So far the only reasonable option I've found uses a
> Velocity Dyad (http://harriscyclery.net/product/velocity-700c-dyad-
> rs400-tiagra-wheel-set-36-spoke-3247.htm).
>
> But I have a lot more options if a 40mm tire works well on a 15mm wide
> rim. So what gives?
>
> Also, anyone have any wheels for sale with medium-wide rims and 130mm rear
> hub?
>
> On Tuesday, November 29, 2016 at 8:24:28 AM UTC-5, Skenry wrote:
>>
>> You are good to upsize on those rims, look at a mountainbike someday.
>> Tires can easily triple the rim width.
>>
>> As for tire, I actually recommend these from Pmart
>> http://www.performancebike.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Pro
>> duct_10052_10551_1168230_-1_400904__400904
>>
>> Cheap as all get out, not too heavy and they perform really well.They
>> are my go-to tire for non racing cross bikes anymore.   Did I mention cheap?
>> Scott
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 7:05 AM, 'Mark Etze' via RBW Owners Bunch <
>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I have that exact set up, Mavic Open Pro's with 40mm Clement MSO's. I
>>> run them at 60psi and they have been great with out any squirliness at all
>>> and no flats with 1500 miles on them.
>>>
>>> --
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>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>>>
>>
>> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: 40-ish mm Tires on Thinner Rims?

[Paul Clifton]

Well, now I'm confused a bit.

How much wiggle room do rims have on the max tire size, or does it depend 
on the rim shape?

Have any wide tires ever popped off any narrow rims?

I've been wheel shopping. I want to use mostly 38mm tires. The Open Pro is 
15mm wide on the inside and is rated for up to 28mm tires 
(https://shop.mavic.com/en-us/open-pro-c-j24200.html). Sheldon Brown has a 
table that puts 19mm wide rims in my sweet spot: 
www.sheldonbrown.com/tire-sizing.html#width

It's been tricky to find a budget wheelset with both a 19mm or wider rim 
and a 130mm rear hub. So far the only reasonable option I've found uses a 
Velocity Dyad 
(http://harriscyclery.net/product/velocity-700c-dyad-rs400-tiagra-wheel-set-36-spoke-3247.htm).

But I have a lot more options if a 40mm tire works well on a 15mm wide rim. 
So what gives?

Also, anyone have any wheels for sale with medium-wide rims and 130mm rear 
hub?

On Tuesday, November 29, 2016 at 8:24:28 AM UTC-5, Skenry wrote:
>
> You are good to upsize on those rims, look at a mountainbike someday.
> Tires can easily triple the rim width.
>
> As for tire, I actually recommend these from Pmart
>
> http://www.performancebike.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10052_10551_1168230_-1_400904__400904
>
> Cheap as all get out, not too heavy and they perform really well.They 
> are my go-to tire for non racing cross bikes anymore.   Did I mention cheap?
> Scott
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 7:05 AM, 'Mark Etze' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com > wrote:
>
>> I have that exact set up, Mavic Open Pro's with 40mm Clement MSO's. I run 
>> them at 60psi and they have been great with out any squirliness at all and 
>> no flats with 1500 miles on them.
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com .
>> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com 
>> .
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: 40-ish mm Tires on Thinner Rims?

[Scott Henry]

You are good to upsize on those rims, look at a mountainbike someday.
Tires can easily triple the rim width.

As for tire, I actually recommend these from Pmart
http://www.performancebike.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10052_10551_1168230_-1_400904__400904

Cheap as all get out, not too heavy and they perform really well.They
are my go-to tire for non racing cross bikes anymore.   Did I mention cheap?
Scott


On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 7:05 AM, 'Mark Etze' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> I have that exact set up, Mavic Open Pro's with 40mm Clement MSO's. I run
> them at 60psi and they have been great with out any squirliness at all and
> no flats with 1500 miles on them.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

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