subject:"Re\: \[RBW\] Re\: A College Clem"

Re: [RBW] Re: A College Clem

2023-08-09 Thread Curtis McKenzie

If this is a question of bicycle happiness level (BHL)for a first year
college student we may be spending more energy on this than we should.
Difficult to judge the BHL for an 18 y.o. when we are looking at this
through our rose or not so rose colored glasses.  Who is to say the student
on the 100 dollar "beater" has a different BHL compared to the student on
the 2500 dollar bicycle?

Perhaps only the rider knows.

Perhaps we should hope that the student is indifferent about the bicycle
they ride and are focused on the task at hand.

If this bicycle and not that bicycle makes the student happier at college
then pick this bicycle.

Peace,
Curtis

On Wed, Aug 9, 2023, 4:47 AM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
jonasandle...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Wow, this thread has generated a lot of response, and I’ve enjoyed reading
> every post. It’s such a shame we have to go to extremes to avoid bike theft
> - carrying heavy u-locks, being so choosy about parking and locking,
> replacing parts, making the bike ugly, choosing to ride an undesirable bike
> so we can preserve our desirable bike…
>
> Then there’s the other variable - how careful is the kid going to be with
> the bike? Well, bikes are not precious to him. He likes his bike, sees
> beauty and usefulness in it, but please do not bore him with too many
> details about it. I don’t think he will worry about it like I would; and
> that may lead to carelessness that gets his bike stolen. But also, he has
> the Mr. Magoo-like quality of walking through life blissfully unaware of
> the evil that lurks around every corner and arriving unscathed at his
> destination.
>
> The campus in question does not have a lot of bike pirates roaming about,
> although yes, I know they exist everywhere. But they are not prolific on
> this particular campus. I’m still undecided about what bike to send, but
> any bike that goes with him will get skewers that are locked and nuts that
> prevent the theft of stem, saddle and seat post. Hexlox makes all these
> products, if anyone is wondering. We’ll have good u-locks, too.
>
> And thanks to Jim for the mention of coverage under homeowners’ insurance.
> I’ll be looking into that for sure.
> Leah
>
> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 7:04:07 PM UTC-4 nlerner wrote:
>
>> Similar to Mackenzy, I’ve been bike commuting to college campuses for
>> many decades, the last 30 of which have been in the Boston area. I’ve never
>> had a bike stolen likely because (1) I use a decent lock and (2) never park
>> it outside overnight. I have colleagues who would never leave their bikes
>> outside at all and schlep them up to their offices, navigating too small
>> elevators and lots of doorways, but I’ve never seen the need. Sure, bikes
>> get stolen around here all the time, but I’m convinced those are the ones
>> easiest to steal, e.g., unlocked on a porch or in a backyard or part of a
>> larger home break in.
>>
>> Now that doesn’t mean I necessarily endorse bringing the Clem to college
>> as it will likely get thoroughly trashed from daily wear and tear (bike
>> racks are not bike-friendly spaces). But I’m also always looking for an
>> excuse to build up a commuter for colleagues.
>>
>> Neal Lerner
>> Brookline MA
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 5:07:52 PM UTC-4 Mackenzy Albright wrote:
>>
>>> I'm amazed at the amount of discouragement of use of the Clem as a
>>> college commuting bike.
>>>
>>> I've worked at universities a good chunk of my life and commuted with
>>> high(er) end bikes and never had any issues. I like riding nice bikes -
>>> which is why I own them. I've parked in high foot traffic zones (in front
>>> of libraries, security, etc.) or bring my bike inside ( absolute in
>>> downtown Vancouver) when possible or parking my bike is in eyesight
>>> (outside my old office at a bike rack in UVIC). Just the standard back
>>> wheel lock with cable around the front wheel. Nothing fancy. (no QR seat)
>>> Never ever ever leave them parked over night. I always avoid dark or hidden
>>> area's, especially near residence halls or maintenance buildings. Granted -
>>> some universities and colleges are more sketchy than others. I've found
>>> eventually other cyclists with nice or similar bikes will start parking
>>> around you. It's a little heartwarming. My biggest issue is the occasional
>>> bike jammer - which leads to fender misalignment or dents. Scratches etc.
>>> It's the life of a bike.
>>>
>>> I am of the opinion have a wonderful bike to have a wonderful ride
>>> everyday not to hide in the garage. On the counterpoint - if one is going
>>> to be riding to the bars or parties or potential overnight parking...this
>>> is where the shenanigans will happen. It could be good having a "bar
>>> hopper" single speed or something of the sort if biking is desired in these
>>> situations.
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 1:50:41 PM UTC-7 Ian A wrote:
>>>
 Have you considered a Brompton for a college bike? The folding nature
 of it means it can always b

Re: [RBW] Re: A College Clem

2023-08-09 Thread Johnny Alien

I mean the fallback is to take the smaller Clem H. It will be easier to get 
onto public transport bike racks and be easier to slot into a dorm at night 
too. The choice doesn't have to be Clem L or total beater. That Clem H is a 
killer bike that has slightly less sentimental value if it happens to get 
stolen. If it doesn't then he knows he can go with the bigger one the next 
semester. 

On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 9:58:42 AM UTC-4 Curtis wrote:

> If this is a question of bicycle happiness level (BHL)for a first year 
> college student we may be spending more energy on this than we should.  
> Difficult to judge the BHL for an 18 y.o. when we are looking at this 
> through our rose or not so rose colored glasses.  Who is to say the student 
> on the 100 dollar "beater" has a different BHL compared to the student on 
> the 2500 dollar bicycle?  
>
> Perhaps only the rider knows.
>
> Perhaps we should hope that the student is indifferent about the bicycle 
> they ride and are focused on the task at hand.  
>
> If this bicycle and not that bicycle makes the student happier at college 
> then pick this bicycle.
>
> Peace,
> Curtis
>
> On Wed, Aug 9, 2023, 4:47 AM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!  
> wrote:
>
>> Wow, this thread has generated a lot of response, and I’ve enjoyed 
>> reading every post. It’s such a shame we have to go to extremes to avoid 
>> bike theft - carrying heavy u-locks, being so choosy about parking and 
>> locking, replacing parts, making the bike ugly, choosing to ride an 
>> undesirable bike so we can preserve our desirable bike…
>>
>> Then there’s the other variable - how careful is the kid going to be with 
>> the bike? Well, bikes are not precious to him. He likes his bike, sees 
>> beauty and usefulness in it, but please do not bore him with too many 
>> details about it. I don’t think he will worry about it like I would; and 
>> that may lead to carelessness that gets his bike stolen. But also, he has 
>> the Mr. Magoo-like quality of walking through life blissfully unaware of 
>> the evil that lurks around every corner and arriving unscathed at his 
>> destination. 
>>
>> The campus in question does not have a lot of bike pirates roaming about, 
>> although yes, I know they exist everywhere. But they are not prolific on 
>> this particular campus. I’m still undecided about what bike to send, but 
>> any bike that goes with him will get skewers that are locked and nuts that 
>> prevent the theft of stem, saddle and seat post. Hexlox makes all these 
>> products, if anyone is wondering. We’ll have good u-locks, too. 
>>
>> And thanks to Jim for the mention of coverage under homeowners’ 
>> insurance. I’ll be looking into that for sure. 
>> Leah
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 7:04:07 PM UTC-4 nlerner wrote:
>>
>>> Similar to Mackenzy, I’ve been bike commuting to college campuses for 
>>> many decades, the last 30 of which have been in the Boston area. I’ve never 
>>> had a bike stolen likely because (1) I use a decent lock and (2) never park 
>>> it outside overnight. I have colleagues who would never leave their bikes 
>>> outside at all and schlep them up to their offices, navigating too small 
>>> elevators and lots of doorways, but I’ve never seen the need. Sure, bikes 
>>> get stolen around here all the time, but I’m convinced those are the ones 
>>> easiest to steal, e.g., unlocked on a porch or in a backyard or part of a 
>>> larger home break in.
>>>
>>> Now that doesn’t mean I necessarily endorse bringing the Clem to college 
>>> as it will likely get thoroughly trashed from daily wear and tear (bike 
>>> racks are not bike-friendly spaces). But I’m also always looking for an 
>>> excuse to build up a commuter for colleagues.
>>>
>>> Neal Lerner
>>> Brookline MA
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 5:07:52 PM UTC-4 Mackenzy Albright wrote:
>>>
 I'm amazed at the amount of discouragement of use of the Clem as a 
 college commuting bike. 

 I've worked at universities a good chunk of my life and commuted with 
 high(er) end bikes and never had any issues. I like riding nice bikes - 
 which is why I own them. I've parked in high foot traffic zones (in front 
 of libraries, security, etc.) or bring my bike inside ( absolute in 
 downtown Vancouver) when possible or parking my bike is in eyesight 
 (outside my old office at a bike rack in UVIC). Just the standard back 
 wheel lock with cable around the front wheel. Nothing fancy. (no QR seat) 
 Never ever ever leave them parked over night. I always avoid dark or 
 hidden 
 area's, especially near residence halls or maintenance buildings. Granted 
 - 
 some universities and colleges are more sketchy than others. I've found 
 eventually other cyclists with nice or similar bikes will start parking 
 around you. It's a little heartwarming. My biggest issue is the occasional 
 bike jammer - which leads to fender misalignment or dents. Scratches etc.

Re: [RBW] Re: A College Clem

2023-08-09 Thread Kim H.

@ Jonathan -

Does the Clem H and the Clem L have the same wheelbase or not ?

I know my Clem L from the outer length from end to end of the wheels 
measures close to 80" long. Too long for a bike rack for a transit bus is 
my belief.

Kim Hetzel
Yelm, WA. 

On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 7:36:47 AM UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote:

> I mean the fallback is to take the smaller Clem H. It will be easier to 
> get onto public transport bike racks and be easier to slot into a dorm at 
> night too. The choice doesn't have to be Clem L or total beater. That Clem 
> H is a killer bike that has slightly less sentimental value if it happens 
> to get stolen. If it doesn't then he knows he can go with the bigger one 
> the next semester. 
>
> On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 9:58:42 AM UTC-4 Curtis wrote:
>
>> If this is a question of bicycle happiness level (BHL)for a first year 
>> college student we may be spending more energy on this than we should.  
>> Difficult to judge the BHL for an 18 y.o. when we are looking at this 
>> through our rose or not so rose colored glasses.  Who is to say the student 
>> on the 100 dollar "beater" has a different BHL compared to the student on 
>> the 2500 dollar bicycle?  
>>
>> Perhaps only the rider knows.
>>
>> Perhaps we should hope that the student is indifferent about the bicycle 
>> they ride and are focused on the task at hand.  
>>
>> If this bicycle and not that bicycle makes the student happier at college 
>> then pick this bicycle.
>>
>> Peace,
>> Curtis
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 9, 2023, 4:47 AM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
>> jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Wow, this thread has generated a lot of response, and I’ve enjoyed 
>>> reading every post. It’s such a shame we have to go to extremes to avoid 
>>> bike theft - carrying heavy u-locks, being so choosy about parking and 
>>> locking, replacing parts, making the bike ugly, choosing to ride an 
>>> undesirable bike so we can preserve our desirable bike…
>>>
>>> Then there’s the other variable - how careful is the kid going to be 
>>> with the bike? Well, bikes are not precious to him. He likes his bike, sees 
>>> beauty and usefulness in it, but please do not bore him with too many 
>>> details about it. I don’t think he will worry about it like I would; and 
>>> that may lead to carelessness that gets his bike stolen. But also, he has 
>>> the Mr. Magoo-like quality of walking through life blissfully unaware of 
>>> the evil that lurks around every corner and arriving unscathed at his 
>>> destination. 
>>>
>>> The campus in question does not have a lot of bike pirates roaming 
>>> about, although yes, I know they exist everywhere. But they are not 
>>> prolific on this particular campus. I’m still undecided about what bike to 
>>> send, but any bike that goes with him will get skewers that are locked and 
>>> nuts that prevent the theft of stem, saddle and seat post. Hexlox makes all 
>>> these products, if anyone is wondering. We’ll have good u-locks, too. 
>>>
>>> And thanks to Jim for the mention of coverage under homeowners’ 
>>> insurance. I’ll be looking into that for sure. 
>>> Leah
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 7:04:07 PM UTC-4 nlerner wrote:
>>>
 Similar to Mackenzy, I’ve been bike commuting to college campuses for 
 many decades, the last 30 of which have been in the Boston area. I’ve 
 never 
 had a bike stolen likely because (1) I use a decent lock and (2) never 
 park 
 it outside overnight. I have colleagues who would never leave their bikes 
 outside at all and schlep them up to their offices, navigating too small 
 elevators and lots of doorways, but I’ve never seen the need. Sure, bikes 
 get stolen around here all the time, but I’m convinced those are the ones 
 easiest to steal, e.g., unlocked on a porch or in a backyard or part of a 
 larger home break in.

 Now that doesn’t mean I necessarily endorse bringing the Clem to 
 college as it will likely get thoroughly trashed from daily wear and tear 
 (bike racks are not bike-friendly spaces). But I’m also always looking for 
 an excuse to build up a commuter for colleagues.

 Neal Lerner
 Brookline MA

 On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 5:07:52 PM UTC-4 Mackenzy Albright wrote:

> I'm amazed at the amount of discouragement of use of the Clem as a 
> college commuting bike. 
>
> I've worked at universities a good chunk of my life and commuted with 
> high(er) end bikes and never had any issues. I like riding nice bikes - 
> which is why I own them. I've parked in high foot traffic zones (in front 
> of libraries, security, etc.) or bring my bike inside ( absolute in 
> downtown Vancouver) when possible or parking my bike is in eyesight 
> (outside my old office at a bike rack in UVIC). Just the standard back 
> wheel lock with cable around the front wheel. Nothing fancy. (no QR seat) 
> Never ever ever leave them parked o

Re: [RBW] Re: A College Clem

2023-08-09 Thread Leah Peterson

Not these two Clems - the H is a first generation model, which was shorter AND it’s a 52.On Aug 9, 2023, at 12:14 PM, Kim H. wrote:@
Jonathan

-Does the Clem H and the Clem L have the same wheelbase or not ?I know my Clem L from the outer length from end to end of the wheels measures close to 80" long. Too long for a bike rack for a transit bus is my belief.Kim HetzelYelm, WA. On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 7:36:47 AM UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote:I mean the fallback is to take the smaller Clem H. It will be easier to get onto public transport bike racks and be easier to slot into a dorm at night too. The choice doesn't have to be Clem L or total beater. That Clem H is a killer bike that has slightly less sentimental value if it happens to get stolen. If it doesn't then he knows he can go with the bigger one the next semester. On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 9:58:42 AM UTC-4 Curtis wrote:If this is a question of bicycle happiness level (BHL)for a first year college student we may be spending more energy on this than we should. Difficult to judge the BHL for an 18 y.o. when we are looking at this through our rose or not so rose colored glasses. Who is to say the student on the 100 dollar "beater" has a different BHL compared to the student on the 2500 dollar bicycle? Perhaps only the rider knows.Perhaps we should hope that the student is indifferent about the bicycle they ride and are focused on the task at hand. If this bicycle and not that bicycle makes the student happier at college then pick this bicycle.Peace,CurtisOn Wed, Aug 9, 2023, 4:47 AM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:Wow, this thread has generated a lot of response, and I’ve enjoyed reading every post. It’s such a shame we have to go to extremes to avoid bike theft - carrying heavy u-locks, being so choosy about parking and locking, replacing parts, making the bike ugly, choosing to ride an undesirable bike so we can preserve our desirable bike…Then there’s the other variable - how careful is the kid going to be with the bike? Well, bikes are not precious to him. He likes his bike, sees beauty and usefulness in it, but please do not bore him with too many details about it. I don’t think he will worry about it like I would; and that may lead to carelessness that gets his bike stolen. But also, he has the Mr. Magoo-like quality of walking through life blissfully unaware of the evil that lurks around every corner and arriving unscathed at his destination. The campus in question does not have a lot of bike pirates roaming about, although yes, I know they exist everywhere. But they are not prolific on this particular campus. I’m still undecided about what bike to send, but any bike that goes with him will get skewers that are locked and nuts that prevent the theft of stem, saddle and seat post. Hexlox makes all these products, if anyone is wondering. We’ll have good u-locks, too. And thanks to Jim for the mention of coverage under homeowners’ insurance. I’ll be looking into that for sure. LeahOn Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 7:04:07 PM UTC-4 nlerner wrote:Similar to Mackenzy, I’ve been bike commuting to college campuses for many decades, the last 30 of which have been in the Boston area. I’ve never had a bike stolen likely because (1) I use a decent lock and (2) never park it outside overnight. I have colleagues who would never leave their bikes outside at all and schlep them up to their offices, navigating too small elevators and lots of doorways, but I’ve never seen the need. Sure, bikes get stolen around here all the time, but I’m convinced those are the ones easiest to steal, e.g., unlocked on a porch or in a backyard or part of a larger home break in.Now that doesn’t mean I necessarily endorse bringing the Clem to college as it will likely get thoroughly trashed from daily wear and tear (bike racks are not bike-friendly spaces). But I’m also always looking for an excuse to build up a commuter for colleagues.Neal LernerBrookline MAOn Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 5:07:52 PM UTC-4 Mackenzy Albright wrote:I'm amazed at the amount of discouragement of use of the Clem as a college commuting bike. I've worked at universities a good chunk of my life and commuted with high(er) end bikes and never had any issues. I like riding nice bikes - which is why I own them. I've parked in high foot traffic zones (in front of libraries, security, etc.) or bring my bike inside ( absolute in downtown Vancouver) when possible or parking my bike is in eyesight (outside my old office at a bike rack in UVIC). Just the standard back wheel lock with cable around the front wheel. Nothing fancy. (no QR seat) Never ever ever leave them parked over night. I always avoid dark or hidden area's, especially near residence halls or maintenance buildings. Granted - some universities and colleges are more sketchy than others. I've found eventually other cyclists with nice or similar bikes will start parking around you. It's a little heartwarming. My biggest issue i

Re: [RBW] Re: A College Clem

2023-08-09 Thread Kim H.

@Leah -
Thank-you.  

Do you know, if both the first generation Clem H and L models are both 
shorter than the new generation Clem H and L models ?

Kim Hetzel
Yelm, WA. 

On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 9:22:49 AM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> Not these two Clems - the H is a first generation model, which was shorter 
> AND it’s a 52.
>
> On Aug 9, 2023, at 12:14 PM, Kim H.  wrote:
>
> 
>
> @ Jonathan -
>
> Does the Clem H and the Clem L have the same wheelbase or not ?
>
> I know my Clem L from the outer length from end to end of the wheels 
> measures close to 80" long. Too long for a bike rack for a transit bus is 
> my belief.
>
> Kim Hetzel
> Yelm, WA. 
>
> On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 7:36:47 AM UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote:
>
>> I mean the fallback is to take the smaller Clem H. It will be easier to 
>> get onto public transport bike racks and be easier to slot into a dorm at 
>> night too. The choice doesn't have to be Clem L or total beater. That Clem 
>> H is a killer bike that has slightly less sentimental value if it happens 
>> to get stolen. If it doesn't then he knows he can go with the bigger one 
>> the next semester. 
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 9:58:42 AM UTC-4 Curtis wrote:
>>
>>> If this is a question of bicycle happiness level (BHL)for a first year 
>>> college student we may be spending more energy on this than we should.  
>>> Difficult to judge the BHL for an 18 y.o. when we are looking at this 
>>> through our rose or not so rose colored glasses.  Who is to say the student 
>>> on the 100 dollar "beater" has a different BHL compared to the student on 
>>> the 2500 dollar bicycle?  
>>>
>>> Perhaps only the rider knows.
>>>
>>> Perhaps we should hope that the student is indifferent about the bicycle 
>>> they ride and are focused on the task at hand.  
>>>
>>> If this bicycle and not that bicycle makes the student happier at 
>>> college then pick this bicycle.
>>>
>>> Peace,
>>> Curtis
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 9, 2023, 4:47 AM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
>>> jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 Wow, this thread has generated a lot of response, and I’ve enjoyed 
 reading every post. It’s such a shame we have to go to extremes to avoid 
 bike theft - carrying heavy u-locks, being so choosy about parking and 
 locking, replacing parts, making the bike ugly, choosing to ride an 
 undesirable bike so we can preserve our desirable bike…

 Then there’s the other variable - how careful is the kid going to be 
 with the bike? Well, bikes are not precious to him. He likes his bike, 
 sees 
 beauty and usefulness in it, but please do not bore him with too many 
 details about it. I don’t think he will worry about it like I would; and 
 that may lead to carelessness that gets his bike stolen. But also, he has 
 the Mr. Magoo-like quality of walking through life blissfully unaware of 
 the evil that lurks around every corner and arriving unscathed at his 
 destination. 

 The campus in question does not have a lot of bike pirates roaming 
 about, although yes, I know they exist everywhere. But they are not 
 prolific on this particular campus. I’m still undecided about what bike to 
 send, but any bike that goes with him will get skewers that are locked and 
 nuts that prevent the theft of stem, saddle and seat post. Hexlox makes 
 all 
 these products, if anyone is wondering. We’ll have good u-locks, too. 

 And thanks to Jim for the mention of coverage under homeowners’ 
 insurance. I’ll be looking into that for sure. 
 Leah

 On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 7:04:07 PM UTC-4 nlerner wrote:

> Similar to Mackenzy, I’ve been bike commuting to college campuses for 
> many decades, the last 30 of which have been in the Boston area. I’ve 
> never 
> had a bike stolen likely because (1) I use a decent lock and (2) never 
> park 
> it outside overnight. I have colleagues who would never leave their bikes 
> outside at all and schlep them up to their offices, navigating too small 
> elevators and lots of doorways, but I’ve never seen the need. Sure, bikes 
> get stolen around here all the time, but I’m convinced those are the ones 
> easiest to steal, e.g., unlocked on a porch or in a backyard or part of a 
> larger home break in.
>
> Now that doesn’t mean I necessarily endorse bringing the Clem to 
> college as it will likely get thoroughly trashed from daily wear and tear 
> (bike racks are not bike-friendly spaces). But I’m also always looking 
> for 
> an excuse to build up a commuter for colleagues.
>
> Neal Lerner
> Brookline MA
>
> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 5:07:52 PM UTC-4 Mackenzy Albright wrote:
>
>> I'm amazed at the amount of discouragement of use of the Clem as a 
>> college commuting bike. 
>>
>> I've worked at universities a good chunk of my life

Re: [RBW] Re: A College Clem

2023-08-09 Thread Leah Peterson

There is no new generation H. They were discontinued after a short while. The old L models are shorter than the new models. I have a 2019 Clem L and it is much longer than the 2015 Clementine my MIL owned.Sent from my iPhoneOn Aug 9, 2023, at 1:02 PM, Kim H. wrote:@Leah -Thank-you. Do you know, if both the first generation Clem H and L models are both shorter than the new generation Clem H and L models ?Kim HetzelYelm, WA. On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 9:22:49 AM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:Not these two Clems - the H is a first generation model, which was shorter AND it’s a 52.On Aug 9, 2023, at 12:14 PM, Kim H. wrote:@
Jonathan

Re: [RBW] Re: A College Clem

2023-08-09 Thread Kim H.

@Leah-

I thank-you for the information. I appreciate it.

Kim Hetzel
Yelm, WA. 

On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 10:08:46 AM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> There is no new generation H. They were discontinued after a short while. 
> The old L models are shorter than the new models. I have a 2019 Clem L and 
> it is much longer than the 2015 Clementine my MIL owned.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 9, 2023, at 1:02 PM, Kim H.  wrote:
>
> 
>
> @Leah -
> Thank-you.  
>
> Do you know, if both the first generation Clem H and L models are both 
> shorter than the new generation Clem H and L models ?
>
> Kim Hetzel
> Yelm, WA. 
>
> On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 9:22:49 AM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> Not these two Clems - the H is a first generation model, which was 
>> shorter AND it’s a 52.
>>
>> On Aug 9, 2023, at 12:14 PM, Kim H.  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> @ Jonathan -
>>
>> Does the Clem H and the Clem L have the same wheelbase or not ?
>>
>> I know my Clem L from the outer length from end to end of the wheels 
>> measures close to 80" long. Too long for a bike rack for a transit bus is 
>> my belief.
>>
>> Kim Hetzel
>> Yelm, WA. 
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 7:36:47 AM UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote:
>>
>>> I mean the fallback is to take the smaller Clem H. It will be easier to 
>>> get onto public transport bike racks and be easier to slot into a dorm at 
>>> night too. The choice doesn't have to be Clem L or total beater. That Clem 
>>> H is a killer bike that has slightly less sentimental value if it happens 
>>> to get stolen. If it doesn't then he knows he can go with the bigger one 
>>> the next semester. 
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 9:58:42 AM UTC-4 Curtis wrote:
>>>
 If this is a question of bicycle happiness level (BHL)for a first year 
 college student we may be spending more energy on this than we should.  
 Difficult to judge the BHL for an 18 y.o. when we are looking at this 
 through our rose or not so rose colored glasses.  Who is to say the 
 student 
 on the 100 dollar "beater" has a different BHL compared to the student on 
 the 2500 dollar bicycle?  

 Perhaps only the rider knows.

 Perhaps we should hope that the student is indifferent about the 
 bicycle they ride and are focused on the task at hand.  

 If this bicycle and not that bicycle makes the student happier at 
 college then pick this bicycle.

 Peace,
 Curtis

 On Wed, Aug 9, 2023, 4:47 AM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
 jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Wow, this thread has generated a lot of response, and I’ve enjoyed 
> reading every post. It’s such a shame we have to go to extremes to avoid 
> bike theft - carrying heavy u-locks, being so choosy about parking and 
> locking, replacing parts, making the bike ugly, choosing to ride an 
> undesirable bike so we can preserve our desirable bike…
>
> Then there’s the other variable - how careful is the kid going to be 
> with the bike? Well, bikes are not precious to him. He likes his bike, 
> sees 
> beauty and usefulness in it, but please do not bore him with too many 
> details about it. I don’t think he will worry about it like I would; and 
> that may lead to carelessness that gets his bike stolen. But also, he has 
> the Mr. Magoo-like quality of walking through life blissfully unaware of 
> the evil that lurks around every corner and arriving unscathed at his 
> destination. 
>
> The campus in question does not have a lot of bike pirates roaming 
> about, although yes, I know they exist everywhere. But they are not 
> prolific on this particular campus. I’m still undecided about what bike 
> to 
> send, but any bike that goes with him will get skewers that are locked 
> and 
> nuts that prevent the theft of stem, saddle and seat post. Hexlox makes 
> all 
> these products, if anyone is wondering. We’ll have good u-locks, too. 
>
> And thanks to Jim for the mention of coverage under homeowners’ 
> insurance. I’ll be looking into that for sure. 
> Leah
>
> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 7:04:07 PM UTC-4 nlerner wrote:
>
>> Similar to Mackenzy, I’ve been bike commuting to college campuses for 
>> many decades, the last 30 of which have been in the Boston area. I’ve 
>> never 
>> had a bike stolen likely because (1) I use a decent lock and (2) never 
>> park 
>> it outside overnight. I have colleagues who would never leave their 
>> bikes 
>> outside at all and schlep them up to their offices, navigating too small 
>> elevators and lots of doorways, but I’ve never seen the need. Sure, 
>> bikes 
>> get stolen around here all the time, but I’m convinced those are the 
>> ones 
>> easiest to steal, e.g., unlocked on a porch or in a backyard or part of 
>> a 
>> larger h

Re: [RBW] Re: A College Clem

2023-08-09 Thread Wesley

Hi Kim,
The way to measure is from one axle to the other. The maximum measurement 
that will fit on bike racks on Sacramento busses (pretty much identical to 
racks I've used/seen in other cities) is approximately 45".
-Wes
On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 9:14:41 AM UTC-7 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:

> @ Jonathan -
>
> Does the Clem H and the Clem L have the same wheelbase or not ?
>
> I know my Clem L from the outer length from end to end of the wheels 
> measures close to 80" long. Too long for a bike rack for a transit bus is 
> my belief.
>
> Kim Hetzel
> Yelm, WA. 
>
> On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 7:36:47 AM UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote:
>
>> I mean the fallback is to take the smaller Clem H. It will be easier to 
>> get onto public transport bike racks and be easier to slot into a dorm at 
>> night too. The choice doesn't have to be Clem L or total beater. That Clem 
>> H is a killer bike that has slightly less sentimental value if it happens 
>> to get stolen. If it doesn't then he knows he can go with the bigger one 
>> the next semester. 
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 9:58:42 AM UTC-4 Curtis wrote:
>>
>>> If this is a question of bicycle happiness level (BHL)for a first year 
>>> college student we may be spending more energy on this than we should.  
>>> Difficult to judge the BHL for an 18 y.o. when we are looking at this 
>>> through our rose or not so rose colored glasses.  Who is to say the student 
>>> on the 100 dollar "beater" has a different BHL compared to the student on 
>>> the 2500 dollar bicycle?  
>>>
>>> Perhaps only the rider knows.
>>>
>>> Perhaps we should hope that the student is indifferent about the bicycle 
>>> they ride and are focused on the task at hand.  
>>>
>>> If this bicycle and not that bicycle makes the student happier at 
>>> college then pick this bicycle.
>>>
>>> Peace,
>>> Curtis
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 9, 2023, 4:47 AM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
>>> jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 Wow, this thread has generated a lot of response, and I’ve enjoyed 
 reading every post. It’s such a shame we have to go to extremes to avoid 
 bike theft - carrying heavy u-locks, being so choosy about parking and 
 locking, replacing parts, making the bike ugly, choosing to ride an 
 undesirable bike so we can preserve our desirable bike…

 Then there’s the other variable - how careful is the kid going to be 
 with the bike? Well, bikes are not precious to him. He likes his bike, 
 sees 
 beauty and usefulness in it, but please do not bore him with too many 
 details about it. I don’t think he will worry about it like I would; and 
 that may lead to carelessness that gets his bike stolen. But also, he has 
 the Mr. Magoo-like quality of walking through life blissfully unaware of 
 the evil that lurks around every corner and arriving unscathed at his 
 destination. 

 The campus in question does not have a lot of bike pirates roaming 
 about, although yes, I know they exist everywhere. But they are not 
 prolific on this particular campus. I’m still undecided about what bike to 
 send, but any bike that goes with him will get skewers that are locked and 
 nuts that prevent the theft of stem, saddle and seat post. Hexlox makes 
 all 
 these products, if anyone is wondering. We’ll have good u-locks, too. 

 And thanks to Jim for the mention of coverage under homeowners’ 
 insurance. I’ll be looking into that for sure. 
 Leah

 On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 7:04:07 PM UTC-4 nlerner wrote:

> Similar to Mackenzy, I’ve been bike commuting to college campuses for 
> many decades, the last 30 of which have been in the Boston area. I’ve 
> never 
> had a bike stolen likely because (1) I use a decent lock and (2) never 
> park 
> it outside overnight. I have colleagues who would never leave their bikes 
> outside at all and schlep them up to their offices, navigating too small 
> elevators and lots of doorways, but I’ve never seen the need. Sure, bikes 
> get stolen around here all the time, but I’m convinced those are the ones 
> easiest to steal, e.g., unlocked on a porch or in a backyard or part of a 
> larger home break in.
>
> Now that doesn’t mean I necessarily endorse bringing the Clem to 
> college as it will likely get thoroughly trashed from daily wear and tear 
> (bike racks are not bike-friendly spaces). But I’m also always looking 
> for 
> an excuse to build up a commuter for colleagues.
>
> Neal Lerner
> Brookline MA
>
> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 5:07:52 PM UTC-4 Mackenzy Albright wrote:
>
>> I'm amazed at the amount of discouragement of use of the Clem as a 
>> college commuting bike. 
>>
>> I've worked at universities a good chunk of my life and commuted with 
>> high(er) end bikes and never had any issues. I like riding nice bikes - 
>>

Re: [RBW] Re: A College Clem

2023-08-09 Thread Kim H.

@Wes - 
 Thank-you.

Kim Hetzel
Yelm, WA. 

On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 11:13:38 AM UTC-7 Wesley wrote:

> Hi Kim,
> The way to measure is from one axle to the other. The maximum measurement 
> that will fit on bike racks on Sacramento busses (pretty much identical to 
> racks I've used/seen in other cities) is approximately 45".
> -Wes
> On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 9:14:41 AM UTC-7 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> @ Jonathan -
>>
>> Does the Clem H and the Clem L have the same wheelbase or not ?
>>
>> I know my Clem L from the outer length from end to end of the wheels 
>> measures close to 80" long. Too long for a bike rack for a transit bus is 
>> my belief.
>>
>> Kim Hetzel
>> Yelm, WA. 
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 7:36:47 AM UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote:
>>
>>> I mean the fallback is to take the smaller Clem H. It will be easier to 
>>> get onto public transport bike racks and be easier to slot into a dorm at 
>>> night too. The choice doesn't have to be Clem L or total beater. That Clem 
>>> H is a killer bike that has slightly less sentimental value if it happens 
>>> to get stolen. If it doesn't then he knows he can go with the bigger one 
>>> the next semester. 
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 9:58:42 AM UTC-4 Curtis wrote:
>>>
 If this is a question of bicycle happiness level (BHL)for a first year 
 college student we may be spending more energy on this than we should.  
 Difficult to judge the BHL for an 18 y.o. when we are looking at this 
 through our rose or not so rose colored glasses.  Who is to say the 
 student 
 on the 100 dollar "beater" has a different BHL compared to the student on 
 the 2500 dollar bicycle?  

 Perhaps only the rider knows.

 Perhaps we should hope that the student is indifferent about the 
 bicycle they ride and are focused on the task at hand.  

 If this bicycle and not that bicycle makes the student happier at 
 college then pick this bicycle.

 Peace,
 Curtis

 On Wed, Aug 9, 2023, 4:47 AM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
 jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Wow, this thread has generated a lot of response, and I’ve enjoyed 
> reading every post. It’s such a shame we have to go to extremes to avoid 
> bike theft - carrying heavy u-locks, being so choosy about parking and 
> locking, replacing parts, making the bike ugly, choosing to ride an 
> undesirable bike so we can preserve our desirable bike…
>
> Then there’s the other variable - how careful is the kid going to be 
> with the bike? Well, bikes are not precious to him. He likes his bike, 
> sees 
> beauty and usefulness in it, but please do not bore him with too many 
> details about it. I don’t think he will worry about it like I would; and 
> that may lead to carelessness that gets his bike stolen. But also, he has 
> the Mr. Magoo-like quality of walking through life blissfully unaware of 
> the evil that lurks around every corner and arriving unscathed at his 
> destination. 
>
> The campus in question does not have a lot of bike pirates roaming 
> about, although yes, I know they exist everywhere. But they are not 
> prolific on this particular campus. I’m still undecided about what bike 
> to 
> send, but any bike that goes with him will get skewers that are locked 
> and 
> nuts that prevent the theft of stem, saddle and seat post. Hexlox makes 
> all 
> these products, if anyone is wondering. We’ll have good u-locks, too. 
>
> And thanks to Jim for the mention of coverage under homeowners’ 
> insurance. I’ll be looking into that for sure. 
> Leah
>
> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 7:04:07 PM UTC-4 nlerner wrote:
>
>> Similar to Mackenzy, I’ve been bike commuting to college campuses for 
>> many decades, the last 30 of which have been in the Boston area. I’ve 
>> never 
>> had a bike stolen likely because (1) I use a decent lock and (2) never 
>> park 
>> it outside overnight. I have colleagues who would never leave their 
>> bikes 
>> outside at all and schlep them up to their offices, navigating too small 
>> elevators and lots of doorways, but I’ve never seen the need. Sure, 
>> bikes 
>> get stolen around here all the time, but I’m convinced those are the 
>> ones 
>> easiest to steal, e.g., unlocked on a porch or in a backyard or part of 
>> a 
>> larger home break in.
>>
>> Now that doesn’t mean I necessarily endorse bringing the Clem to 
>> college as it will likely get thoroughly trashed from daily wear and 
>> tear 
>> (bike racks are not bike-friendly spaces). But I’m also always looking 
>> for 
>> an excuse to build up a commuter for colleagues.
>>
>> Neal Lerner
>> Brookline MA
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 5:07:52 PM UTC-4 Mackenzy Albright 
>> wrote:

Re: [RBW] Re: A College Clem

2023-08-10 Thread J G

Just made this decision with my kid headed off to college in less than 2 
weeks, as the bike they have had for the past 8 years has no business in a 
college bike rack.

Was originally looking at 80s/90s mountain bikes, however they can be a 
little sluggish, so I ended up picking up a ~1997 Bianchi Advantage.  It is 
a great bike!

Really like these old 700c Bianchi's for this type of purpose.  Fit fat 
tires (up to 38c generally), upright riding position and 3x7 and depending 
on year model you can find your preferred shifter type as they seeming were 
made in thumb, twist and click shift versions depending on year.  Does not 
feel overbuilt.  They made a few similar models like the Boardwalk so lots 
of options out there within this 90s/00s Bianchi space alone.

I paid $140 for the one I just got and it was mechanically perfect and a 
really fun ride!



On Thursday, August 10, 2023 at 12:59:17 PM UTC-5 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hi Leah — Another recommendation: the Electra Loft 7i. My friend in 
> Baltimore manages a Trek store and recently bought one. He quite likes it 
> and says it's okay if it gets stolen. He swapped the bars, stem, pedals, 
> seatpost, saddle, tires and added a front rack (I think it's a Velo Orange 
> constructeur with a Wald 139). Internally geared 3-speed hub. They're 
> around $750 from Trek. Just an idea :) 
>
> [image: loft.png]
>
> On Thursday, August 10, 2023 at 11:45:26 AM UTC-4 Eric Marth wrote:
>
>> Hi Leah — Congrats on sending your son off to college 🥲. This question 
>> does seem a little tricky! My short answer: Send him off with a racked and 
>> bagged dyanmo-equipped Clem. 
>>
>> I'm not precious about my Rivendells in terms of dirt or scratches to the 
>> paint. But I make sure they're in good mechanical condition, running well 
>> and I take care to make sure they aren't stolen. But that's the *current* 
>> version 
>> of me. When I started college 20 years ago I didn't have racks, I didn't 
>> have bags, I didn't have lights and I didn't have a clue. My bike was two 
>> sizes too small for me.
>>
>> I would not give College Freshman Eric Marth a Rivendell to take to 
>> school. I didn't have any tools, I didn't know how to change or repair a 
>> tube or adjust brakes. And I wasn't interested! I didn't know how to ride 
>> safely and didn't have good lights or reflectors. But I was not adjacent to 
>> any kind of bike culture and I didn't have a parent who was into practical, 
>> beautiful bicycles as tools to enhance life. Having a bike become a part of 
>> everyday life in college could be transformative. Especially with a bike as 
>> means of self expression and something more than a machine to get you from 
>> A to B. 
>>
>> One recommendation might be to send him off for with a beater, but a good 
>> one. Something like an 80s or 90s steel mountain bike in the Rivendell 
>> style. A Bridgestone, Trek or Specialized with swept back bars, basket, 
>> bags and lights. Here's a picture of Roman's Sequoia (maybe not the best 
>> example, those bikes are pretty desirable and not too cheap!). 
>>
>> [image: seqq.png]
>>
>> But here's the thing: Finding a bike in the right size that checks all 
>> the boxes (steel, braze-ons, good tire clearance, etc.) plus all the 
>> accessories required (racks, bags, fenders, lights) and you're looking 
>> again at the cost of a Clem in the first place! Plus a lot of time getting 
>> all the stuff sourced and put together, whether you do it yourself or leave 
>> it to a shop. Any old steel mountain bike you find will almost certainly 
>> need tires, tubes, cables and brake pads. On an older used bike the brakes, 
>> pedals, derailers and gearing might not be right. The handlebars will 
>> certainly not sweep back gracefully. If you look around on Craigslist in 
>> your area you might get sper lucky and find someone who has already 
>> upgraded an old steel bike in this style. I see them from time to time. You 
>> might also have some luck by starting a Want To Buy thread here with your 
>> requirements. Someone might have a nice beater they're ready to move along. 
>>
>> Another alternative is an off-the-rack hybrid from your local bike shop. 
>> Well that's so un-groovy as to be pointless. Surely it will not be as 
>> practical as the Clem or half as good looking. I think it's worthwhile to 
>> customize the bike with whatever you have in mind. Once that stuff starts 
>> to weather and get a little dirty I wonder if the bike will become a real 
>> head-scratcher for thieves. Step thru, waxed sacks, wire basket, fenders, 
>> what is this thing? It doesn't have suspension springs or carbon anything. 
>> It's an everyday bike. 
>>
>> I'm curious about the transition and how he's suited to land and college 
>> and get right into riding the bike everyday. Does he currently have a 
>> bicycle lifestyle and use his bikes for errands, shopping, meeting with 
>> friends, going to work? Do you anticipate he'll use the bike every da

Re: [RBW] Re: A College Clem

Re: [RBW] Re: A College Clem

Re: [RBW] Re: A College Clem

Re: [RBW] Re: A College Clem

Re: [RBW] Re: A College Clem

Re: [RBW] Re: A College Clem

Re: [RBW] Re: A College Clem

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