Re: [RBW] saddle angle and lower back pain

[Patrick Moore]

Is your saddle a new one and a Brooks?

I used a great many different kinds of saddle before I settled on my choice
(the original Flite) including many Brooks models. I found that Brooks
saddles (and possibly Ideals and others of the type; I used mostly
Brookses) require both more tilt and a more finely adjusted tilt to be
comfortable than say Flites or Turbos or San Marcoses. In fact, I could not
get the tilt just right on the one Brooks road bike saddle -- Pro -- that I
found otherwise comfortable, and I finally got rid of it.

So, between tilt and bars much higher than before, it's not surprising that
you started feeling things you didn't feel before.

Note too that large changes in bar height or saddle-to-bar position can
change the pressure on back, shoulders, arms, hands; in particular I've
found that sufficient saddle setback is necessary for my back and upper
body comfort; so with shorter rails, a Brooks saddles might end up in a
position that is not the best for comfort.

Lastly, personal preference is everything in saddle choice and setup!

On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 4:05 PM Brian Turner  wrote:

> I wanted to post a bit about an experience I've had lately to see if
> anyone else here can relate, or provide some insights into: to preface, I'm
> a relatively new Riv owner, a longtime cyclist in his late 40's with no
> previous history of back pain (knock on wood), and someone who has always
> ridden saddles at a level angle, at or slightly above bar height.
>
> As most of us on here do, I enjoy looking at photos of different setups
> for all the many different Riv bikes produced over the years. One thing
> I've noticed about a lot of folks' setup - especially the ones that are
> more upright, and especially the newer models that are stretched out and
> upright (Clem, Platy, Gus/Susie, Joe, etc.) - is that many riders tend to
> tilt their saddles nose-up slightly, and some at rather pronounced angles.
> I recall reading some posts recently published by Rivendell that
> essentially recommend positioning the saddle this way on these types of
> bikes.
>
> So, after getting my Gus built up back in the beginning of October, I took
> the recommendation to heart, bolstered in part by all the evidence of many,
> many photos showing owners enjoying their saddles set up this way. I tilted
> the nose up at an angle that seemed appropriate, set my saddle height, and
> off I went. It felt ok, but I always felt like I was sliding down the
> backside of the saddle, and my body did feel like it was trying to get used
> to the upright position of the bike. Since then, I've been riding my Gus a
> lot. Many different types of terrain and varying distances. It's a joy to
> ride of course, and has been extremely comfortable otherwise from the
> get-go. i love it.
>
> However, something else started coinciding with my time on Gus; a nagging
> lower back ache that seemed to be at its worse following a ride, and
> continuing for a day or two afterwards. I recently took 5 days off the bike
> and experienced no back pain during that time. It was then that I started
> to wonder if it was all related to the saddle angle. This past week, I
> started experimenting with setting my saddle up the same way it is on all
> my other bikes. The only difference with this bike is that the bars are
> much higher in relation to the saddle on my other bikes. After a couple of
> days riding with the newly level saddle (including a 30 mi ride yesterday),
> I'm experiencing no back pain like I was before. Maybe it's too early to
> count out coincidence, but something tells me it's not.
>
> So this leads me to question the whole upwards tilt thing as it relates to
> these types of Riv models and how folks ride them. I know everyone is
> different, and there's always going to be those who prefer upward tilts,
> downward tilts, extreme fore / aft, etc. but what exactly is it,
> physiologically speaking, that skews towards the preference for the upward
> saddle tilt for an upright riding position? I'm certainly no expert on bike
> fit, but is there a logical justification for it, other than just personal
> preference? Has anyone else here had a similar experience? I'm going to
> keep it this way for a while to see if my hunch continues to bear fruit -
> fingers crossed.
>
> --
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> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
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> 
> .
>


-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, 

Re: [RBW] saddle angle and lower back pain

[Roberta]

I also tilt my Brooks up to keep me from sliding towards the nose.  Angling 
too much gets me in the front, especially if forget to unweight at a 
pothole or bump (ouch! ). I find there’s a narrow opportunity for angle 
perfection.   I look at pictures of my bike and I think the upward tilt is 
highly exaggerated.  So the pics you’re seeing might be the same. 

I got my first  Brooks, B17, when I got my Joe Appaloosa and went on my 
first (ever) 20 mile ride. Oh, my back hurt!  I even posted about it on the 
forum. I switched to a Flyer so the springs took the shock, not my back. 
 Much better. Over the years, I replaced the Flyer and the back pain didn’t 
come back, but I was really happy with the Flyer. Perhaps my back is 
stronger or I’m sitting differently or the tilt is different. 

If one of the saddles you like is for more upright riding, like a B17, try 
that.   I tried a Cambium and didn’t like it.

Roberta
On Tuesday, November 15, 2022 at 8:49:16 PM UTC-5 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

> I was a big doubter of Brooks saddles in general & the nose up thing in 
> particular. But, after fitting a B17 I quite liked it. Except I kept 
> sliding forward - and onto the narrow, uncomfortable part of the saddle. So 
> I started adjusting it nose up in very small increments. I think I have it 
> at just the right amount of tilt as I stay planted on the widest part of 
> the saddle. I now do not slide forward or backward & have zero pressure. Of 
> possible note I am very upright with the Bosco grips 2”-3” above the 
> saddle. The whole thing goes against everything my 50 years of cycling 
> taught me. Also, I had lower back surgery (microdiskectomy) three years ago 
> and my back always improves with a bike ride.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 15, 2022, at 6:05 PM, Brian Turner  wrote:
>
> 
>
> I wanted to post a bit about an experience I've had lately to see if 
> anyone else here can relate, or provide some insights into: to preface, I'm 
> a relatively new Riv owner, a longtime cyclist in his late 40's with no 
> previous history of back pain (knock on wood), and someone who has always 
> ridden saddles at a level angle, at or slightly above bar height.
>
> As most of us on here do, I enjoy looking at photos of different setups 
> for all the many different Riv bikes produced over the years. One thing 
> I've noticed about a lot of folks' setup - especially the ones that are 
> more upright, and especially the newer models that are stretched out and 
> upright (Clem, Platy, Gus/Susie, Joe, etc.) - is that many riders tend to 
> tilt their saddles nose-up slightly, and some at rather pronounced angles. 
> I recall reading some posts recently published by Rivendell that 
> essentially recommend positioning the saddle this way on these types of 
> bikes.
>
> So, after getting my Gus built up back in the beginning of October, I took 
> the recommendation to heart, bolstered in part by all the evidence of many, 
> many photos showing owners enjoying their saddles set up this way. I tilted 
> the nose up at an angle that seemed appropriate, set my saddle height, and 
> off I went. It felt ok, but I always felt like I was sliding down the 
> backside of the saddle, and my body did feel like it was trying to get used 
> to the upright position of the bike. Since then, I've been riding my Gus a 
> lot. Many different types of terrain and varying distances. It's a joy to 
> ride of course, and has been extremely comfortable otherwise from the 
> get-go. i love it.
>
> However, something else started coinciding with my time on Gus; a nagging 
> lower back ache that seemed to be at its worse following a ride, and 
> continuing for a day or two afterwards. I recently took 5 days off the bike 
> and experienced no back pain during that time. It was then that I started 
> to wonder if it was all related to the saddle angle. This past week, I 
> started experimenting with setting my saddle up the same way it is on all 
> my other bikes. The only difference with this bike is that the bars are 
> much higher in relation to the saddle on my other bikes. After a couple of 
> days riding with the newly level saddle (including a 30 mi ride yesterday), 
> I'm experiencing no back pain like I was before. Maybe it's too early to 
> count out coincidence, but something tells me it's not.
>
> So this leads me to question the whole upwards tilt thing as it relates to 
> these types of Riv models and how folks ride them. I know everyone is 
> different, and there's always going to be those who prefer upward tilts, 
> downward tilts, extreme fore / aft, etc. but what exactly is it, 
> physiologically speaking, that skews towards the preference for the upward 
> saddle tilt for an upright riding position? I'm certainly no expert on bike 
> fit, but is there a logical justification for it, other than just personal 
> preference? Has anyone else here had a similar experience? I'm going to 
> keep it this way for a while to see if my 

Re: [RBW] saddle angle and lower back pain

[Slin]

@Scott - the angle on the diagram refers to the rider's back :) 

@Brokebike - I have heard that Cambium saddles are different from the 
Brooks leather saddles and meant to be set up horizontally. Angling it 
upwards might have caused your pelvis to tilt back causing you to hunch 
over in the lower back, or something like that)

On Tuesday, November 15, 2022 at 7:08:10 PM UTC-8 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

> Yes, that (Cambium) seems suspect for sure.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 15, 2022, at 9:20 PM, Brian Turner  wrote:
>
> 
>
> I should mention, I’m normally a leather saddle guy. I have a variety of 
> Brooks and Berthoud saddles; one Brooks being about 15 years old and has a 
> distinct broken-in sag to it, but the saddle itself is still “level”.
>
> The saddle on my Gus is a Cambium, which may factor into it. It’s not my 
> first Cambium, but the first I’ve tried running with a slight upward angle. 
> Perhaps one of my seasoned leather saddles would’ve been a better choice 
> from the start?
>
> On Nov 15, 2022, at 9:05 PM, Bill Schairer  wrote:
>
> I always thought I tilted my Brooks saddles up just a bit.  They look 
> tilted.  But then I put a level on them out of curiosity and they were all 
> actually level.  Point being, maybe all those saddles that appear to be 
> tilted up in the pictures aren't actually?  Maybe that banana sway creates 
> a bit of an optical illusion?
>
> Bill S
> San Diego
>
> On Tuesday, November 15, 2022 at 5:49:16 PM UTC-8 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I was a big doubter of Brooks saddles in general & the nose up thing in 
>> particular. But, after fitting a B17 I quite liked it. Except I kept 
>> sliding forward - and onto the narrow, uncomfortable part of the saddle. So 
>> I started adjusting it nose up in very small increments. I think I have it 
>> at just the right amount of tilt as I stay planted on the widest part of 
>> the saddle. I now do not slide forward or backward & have zero pressure. Of 
>> possible note I am very upright with the Bosco grips 2”-3” above the 
>> saddle. The whole thing goes against everything my 50 years of cycling 
>> taught me. Also, I had lower back surgery (microdiskectomy) three years ago 
>> and my back always improves with a bike ride.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Nov 15, 2022, at 6:05 PM, Brian Turner  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> I wanted to post a bit about an experience I've had lately to see if 
>> anyone else here can relate, or provide some insights into: to preface, I'm 
>> a relatively new Riv owner, a longtime cyclist in his late 40's with no 
>> previous history of back pain (knock on wood), and someone who has always 
>> ridden saddles at a level angle, at or slightly above bar height.
>>
>> As most of us on here do, I enjoy looking at photos of different setups 
>> for all the many different Riv bikes produced over the years. One thing 
>> I've noticed about a lot of folks' setup - especially the ones that are 
>> more upright, and especially the newer models that are stretched out and 
>> upright (Clem, Platy, Gus/Susie, Joe, etc.) - is that many riders tend to 
>> tilt their saddles nose-up slightly, and some at rather pronounced angles. 
>> I recall reading some posts recently published by Rivendell that 
>> essentially recommend positioning the saddle this way on these types of 
>> bikes.
>>
>> So, after getting my Gus built up back in the beginning of October, I 
>> took the recommendation to heart, bolstered in part by all the evidence of 
>> many, many photos showing owners enjoying their saddles set up this way. I 
>> tilted the nose up at an angle that seemed appropriate, set my saddle 
>> height, and off I went. It felt ok, but I always felt like I was sliding 
>> down the backside of the saddle, and my body did feel like it was trying to 
>> get used to the upright position of the bike. Since then, I've been riding 
>> my Gus a lot. Many different types of terrain and varying distances. It's a 
>> joy to ride of course, and has been extremely comfortable otherwise from 
>> the get-go. i love it.
>>
>> However, something else started coinciding with my time on Gus; a nagging 
>> lower back ache that seemed to be at its worse following a ride, and 
>> continuing for a day or two afterwards. I recently took 5 days off the bike 
>> and experienced no back pain during that time. It was then that I started 
>> to wonder if it was all related to the saddle angle. This past week, I 
>> started experimenting with setting my saddle up the same way it is on all 
>> my other bikes. The only difference with this bike is that the bars are 
>> much higher in relation to the saddle on my other bikes. After a couple of 
>> days riding with the newly level saddle (including a 30 mi ride yesterday), 
>> I'm experiencing no back pain like I was before. Maybe it's too early to 
>> count out coincidence, but something tells me it's not.
>>
>> So this leads me to question the whole upwards tilt thing as it relates 
>> to 

Re: [RBW] saddle angle and lower back pain

[Richard Rose]

Yes, that (Cambium) seems suspect for sure.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 15, 2022, at 9:20 PM, Brian Turner  wrote:
> 
> 
> I should mention, I’m normally a leather saddle guy. I have a variety of 
> Brooks and Berthoud saddles; one Brooks being about 15 years old and has a 
> distinct broken-in sag to it, but the saddle itself is still “level”.
> 
> The saddle on my Gus is a Cambium, which may factor into it. It’s not my 
> first Cambium, but the first I’ve tried running with a slight upward angle. 
> Perhaps one of my seasoned leather saddles would’ve been a better choice from 
> the start?
> 
>>> On Nov 15, 2022, at 9:05 PM, Bill Schairer  wrote:
>>> 
>> I always thought I tilted my Brooks saddles up just a bit.  They look 
>> tilted.  But then I put a level on them out of curiosity and they were all 
>> actually level.  Point being, maybe all those saddles that appear to be 
>> tilted up in the pictures aren't actually?  Maybe that banana sway creates a 
>> bit of an optical illusion?
>> 
>> Bill S
>> San Diego
>> 
>>> On Tuesday, November 15, 2022 at 5:49:16 PM UTC-8 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> I was a big doubter of Brooks saddles in general & the nose up thing in 
>>> particular. But, after fitting a B17 I quite liked it. Except I kept 
>>> sliding forward - and onto the narrow, uncomfortable part of the saddle. So 
>>> I started adjusting it nose up in very small increments. I think I have it 
>>> at just the right amount of tilt as I stay planted on the widest part of 
>>> the saddle. I now do not slide forward or backward & have zero pressure. Of 
>>> possible note I am very upright with the Bosco grips 2”-3” above the 
>>> saddle. The whole thing goes against everything my 50 years of cycling 
>>> taught me. Also, I had lower back surgery (microdiskectomy) three years ago 
>>> and my back always improves with a bike ride.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
> On Nov 15, 2022, at 6:05 PM, Brian Turner  wrote:
> 
 
>>> 
 I wanted to post a bit about an experience I've had lately to see if 
 anyone else here can relate, or provide some insights into: to preface, 
 I'm a relatively new Riv owner, a longtime cyclist in his late 40's with 
 no previous history of back pain (knock on wood), and someone who has 
 always ridden saddles at a level angle, at or slightly above bar height.
 
 As most of us on here do, I enjoy looking at photos of different setups 
 for all the many different Riv bikes produced over the years. One thing 
 I've noticed about a lot of folks' setup - especially the ones that are 
 more upright, and especially the newer models that are stretched out and 
 upright (Clem, Platy, Gus/Susie, Joe, etc.) - is that many riders tend to 
 tilt their saddles nose-up slightly, and some at rather pronounced angles. 
 I recall reading some posts recently published by Rivendell that 
 essentially recommend positioning the saddle this way on these types of 
 bikes.
 
 So, after getting my Gus built up back in the beginning of October, I took 
 the recommendation to heart, bolstered in part by all the evidence of 
 many, many photos showing owners enjoying their saddles set up this way. I 
 tilted the nose up at an angle that seemed appropriate, set my saddle 
 height, and off I went. It felt ok, but I always felt like I was sliding 
 down the backside of the saddle, and my body did feel like it was trying 
 to get used to the upright position of the bike. Since then, I've been 
 riding my Gus a lot. Many different types of terrain and varying 
 distances. It's a joy to ride of course, and has been extremely 
 comfortable otherwise from the get-go. i love it.
 
 However, something else started coinciding with my time on Gus; a nagging 
 lower back ache that seemed to be at its worse following a ride, and 
 continuing for a day or two afterwards. I recently took 5 days off the 
 bike and experienced no back pain during that time. It was then that I 
 started to wonder if it was all related to the saddle angle. This past 
 week, I started experimenting with setting my saddle up the same way it is 
 on all my other bikes. The only difference with this bike is that the bars 
 are much higher in relation to the saddle on my other bikes. After a 
 couple of days riding with the newly level saddle (including a 30 mi ride 
 yesterday), I'm experiencing no back pain like I was before. Maybe it's 
 too early to count out coincidence, but something tells me it's not.
 
 So this leads me to question the whole upwards tilt thing as it relates to 
 these types of Riv models and how folks ride them. I know everyone is 
 different, and there's always going to be those who prefer upward tilts, 
 downward tilts, extreme fore / aft, etc. but what exactly is it, 
 physiologically speaking, that skews towards the preference 

Re: [RBW] saddle angle and lower back pain

[Brian Turner]

I should mention, I’m normally a leather saddle guy. I have a variety of Brooks and Berthoud saddles; one Brooks being about 15 years old and has a distinct broken-in sag to it, but the saddle itself is still “level”.The saddle on my Gus is a Cambium, which may factor into it. It’s not my first Cambium, but the first I’ve tried running with a slight upward angle. Perhaps one of my seasoned leather saddles would’ve been a better choice from the start?On Nov 15, 2022, at 9:05 PM, Bill Schairer  wrote:I always thought I tilted my Brooks saddles up just a bit.  They look tilted.  But then I put a level on them out of curiosity and they were all actually level.  Point being, maybe all those saddles that appear to be tilted up in the pictures aren't actually?  Maybe that banana sway creates a bit of an optical illusion?Bill SSan DiegoOn Tuesday, November 15, 2022 at 5:49:16 PM UTC-8 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:I was a big doubter of Brooks saddles in general & the nose up thing in particular. But, after fitting a B17 I quite liked it. Except I kept sliding forward - and onto the narrow, uncomfortable part of the saddle. So I started adjusting it nose up in very small increments. I think I have it at just the right amount of tilt as I stay planted on the widest part of the saddle. I now do not slide forward or backward & have zero pressure. Of possible note I am very upright with the Bosco grips 2”-3” above the saddle. The whole thing goes against everything my 50 years of cycling taught me. Also, I had lower back surgery (microdiskectomy) three years ago and my back always improves with a bike ride.Sent from my iPhoneOn Nov 15, 2022, at 6:05 PM, Brian Turner  wrote:I wanted to post a bit about an experience I've had lately to see if anyone else here can relate, or provide some insights into: to preface, I'm a relatively new Riv owner, a longtime cyclist in his late 40's with no previous history of back pain (knock on wood), and someone who has always ridden saddles at a level angle, at or slightly above bar height.As most of us on here do, I enjoy looking at photos of different setups for all the many different Riv bikes produced over the years. One thing I've noticed about a lot of folks' setup - especially the ones that are more upright, and especially the newer models that are stretched out and upright (Clem, Platy, Gus/Susie, Joe, etc.) - is that many riders tend to tilt their saddles nose-up slightly, and some at rather pronounced angles. I recall reading some posts recently published by Rivendell that essentially recommend positioning the saddle this way on these types of bikes.So, after getting my Gus built up back in the beginning of October, I took the recommendation to heart, bolstered in part by all the evidence of many, many photos showing owners enjoying their saddles set up this way. I tilted the nose up at an angle that seemed appropriate, set my saddle height, and off I went. It felt ok, but I always felt like I was sliding down the backside of the saddle, and my body did feel like it was trying to get used to the upright position of the bike. Since then, I've been riding my Gus a lot. Many different types of terrain and varying distances. It's a joy to ride of course, and has been extremely comfortable otherwise from the get-go. i love it.However, something else started coinciding with my time on Gus; a nagging lower back ache that seemed to be at its worse following a ride, and continuing for a day or two afterwards. I recently took 5 days off the bike and experienced no back pain during that time. It was then that I started to wonder if it was all related to the saddle angle. This past week, I started experimenting with setting my saddle up the same way it is on all my other bikes. The only difference with this bike is that the bars are much higher in relation to the saddle on my other bikes. After a couple of days riding with the newly level saddle (including a 30 mi ride yesterday), I'm experiencing no back pain like I was before. Maybe it's too early to count out coincidence, but something tells me it's not.So this leads me to question the whole upwards tilt thing as it relates to these types of Riv models and how folks ride them. I know everyone is different, and there's always going to be those who prefer upward tilts, downward tilts, extreme fore / aft, etc. but what exactly is it, physiologically speaking, that skews towards the preference for the upward saddle tilt for an upright riding position? I'm certainly no expert on bike fit, but is there a logical justification for it, other than just personal preference? Has anyone else here had a similar experience? I'm going to keep it this way for a while to see if my hunch continues to bear fruit - fingers crossed.



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Re: [RBW] saddle angle and lower back pain

[Bill Schairer]

I always thought I tilted my Brooks saddles up just a bit.  They look 
tilted.  But then I put a level on them out of curiosity and they were all 
actually level.  Point being, maybe all those saddles that appear to be 
tilted up in the pictures aren't actually?  Maybe that banana sway creates 
a bit of an optical illusion?

Bill S
San Diego

On Tuesday, November 15, 2022 at 5:49:16 PM UTC-8 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

> I was a big doubter of Brooks saddles in general & the nose up thing in 
> particular. But, after fitting a B17 I quite liked it. Except I kept 
> sliding forward - and onto the narrow, uncomfortable part of the saddle. So 
> I started adjusting it nose up in very small increments. I think I have it 
> at just the right amount of tilt as I stay planted on the widest part of 
> the saddle. I now do not slide forward or backward & have zero pressure. Of 
> possible note I am very upright with the Bosco grips 2”-3” above the 
> saddle. The whole thing goes against everything my 50 years of cycling 
> taught me. Also, I had lower back surgery (microdiskectomy) three years ago 
> and my back always improves with a bike ride.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 15, 2022, at 6:05 PM, Brian Turner  wrote:
>
> 
>
> I wanted to post a bit about an experience I've had lately to see if 
> anyone else here can relate, or provide some insights into: to preface, I'm 
> a relatively new Riv owner, a longtime cyclist in his late 40's with no 
> previous history of back pain (knock on wood), and someone who has always 
> ridden saddles at a level angle, at or slightly above bar height.
>
> As most of us on here do, I enjoy looking at photos of different setups 
> for all the many different Riv bikes produced over the years. One thing 
> I've noticed about a lot of folks' setup - especially the ones that are 
> more upright, and especially the newer models that are stretched out and 
> upright (Clem, Platy, Gus/Susie, Joe, etc.) - is that many riders tend to 
> tilt their saddles nose-up slightly, and some at rather pronounced angles. 
> I recall reading some posts recently published by Rivendell that 
> essentially recommend positioning the saddle this way on these types of 
> bikes.
>
> So, after getting my Gus built up back in the beginning of October, I took 
> the recommendation to heart, bolstered in part by all the evidence of many, 
> many photos showing owners enjoying their saddles set up this way. I tilted 
> the nose up at an angle that seemed appropriate, set my saddle height, and 
> off I went. It felt ok, but I always felt like I was sliding down the 
> backside of the saddle, and my body did feel like it was trying to get used 
> to the upright position of the bike. Since then, I've been riding my Gus a 
> lot. Many different types of terrain and varying distances. It's a joy to 
> ride of course, and has been extremely comfortable otherwise from the 
> get-go. i love it.
>
> However, something else started coinciding with my time on Gus; a nagging 
> lower back ache that seemed to be at its worse following a ride, and 
> continuing for a day or two afterwards. I recently took 5 days off the bike 
> and experienced no back pain during that time. It was then that I started 
> to wonder if it was all related to the saddle angle. This past week, I 
> started experimenting with setting my saddle up the same way it is on all 
> my other bikes. The only difference with this bike is that the bars are 
> much higher in relation to the saddle on my other bikes. After a couple of 
> days riding with the newly level saddle (including a 30 mi ride yesterday), 
> I'm experiencing no back pain like I was before. Maybe it's too early to 
> count out coincidence, but something tells me it's not.
>
> So this leads me to question the whole upwards tilt thing as it relates to 
> these types of Riv models and how folks ride them. I know everyone is 
> different, and there's always going to be those who prefer upward tilts, 
> downward tilts, extreme fore / aft, etc. but what exactly is it, 
> physiologically speaking, that skews towards the preference for the upward 
> saddle tilt for an upright riding position? I'm certainly no expert on bike 
> fit, but is there a logical justification for it, other than just personal 
> preference? Has anyone else here had a similar experience? I'm going to 
> keep it this way for a while to see if my hunch continues to bear fruit - 
> fingers crossed.
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/77760ed8-8c23-4135-8586-afcdf11af9b3n%40googlegroups.com
>  
> 

Re: [RBW] saddle angle and lower back pain

[Richard Rose]

I was a big doubter of Brooks saddles in general & the nose up thing in 
particular. But, after fitting a B17 I quite liked it. Except I kept sliding 
forward - and onto the narrow, uncomfortable part of the saddle. So I started 
adjusting it nose up in very small increments. I think I have it at just the 
right amount of tilt as I stay planted on the widest part of the saddle. I now 
do not slide forward or backward & have zero pressure. Of possible note I am 
very upright with the Bosco grips 2”-3” above the saddle. The whole thing goes 
against everything my 50 years of cycling taught me. Also, I had lower back 
surgery (microdiskectomy) three years ago and my back always improves with a 
bike ride.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 15, 2022, at 6:05 PM, Brian Turner  wrote:
> 
> 
> I wanted to post a bit about an experience I've had lately to see if anyone 
> else here can relate, or provide some insights into: to preface, I'm a 
> relatively new Riv owner, a longtime cyclist in his late 40's with no 
> previous history of back pain (knock on wood), and someone who has always 
> ridden saddles at a level angle, at or slightly above bar height.
> 
> As most of us on here do, I enjoy looking at photos of different setups for 
> all the many different Riv bikes produced over the years. One thing I've 
> noticed about a lot of folks' setup - especially the ones that are more 
> upright, and especially the newer models that are stretched out and upright 
> (Clem, Platy, Gus/Susie, Joe, etc.) - is that many riders tend to tilt their 
> saddles nose-up slightly, and some at rather pronounced angles. I recall 
> reading some posts recently published by Rivendell that essentially recommend 
> positioning the saddle this way on these types of bikes.
> 
> So, after getting my Gus built up back in the beginning of October, I took 
> the recommendation to heart, bolstered in part by all the evidence of many, 
> many photos showing owners enjoying their saddles set up this way. I tilted 
> the nose up at an angle that seemed appropriate, set my saddle height, and 
> off I went. It felt ok, but I always felt like I was sliding down the 
> backside of the saddle, and my body did feel like it was trying to get used 
> to the upright position of the bike. Since then, I've been riding my Gus a 
> lot. Many different types of terrain and varying distances. It's a joy to 
> ride of course, and has been extremely comfortable otherwise from the get-go. 
> i love it.
> 
> However, something else started coinciding with my time on Gus; a nagging 
> lower back ache that seemed to be at its worse following a ride, and 
> continuing for a day or two afterwards. I recently took 5 days off the bike 
> and experienced no back pain during that time. It was then that I started to 
> wonder if it was all related to the saddle angle. This past week, I started 
> experimenting with setting my saddle up the same way it is on all my other 
> bikes. The only difference with this bike is that the bars are much higher in 
> relation to the saddle on my other bikes. After a couple of days riding with 
> the newly level saddle (including a 30 mi ride yesterday), I'm experiencing 
> no back pain like I was before. Maybe it's too early to count out 
> coincidence, but something tells me it's not.
> 
> So this leads me to question the whole upwards tilt thing as it relates to 
> these types of Riv models and how folks ride them. I know everyone is 
> different, and there's always going to be those who prefer upward tilts, 
> downward tilts, extreme fore / aft, etc. but what exactly is it, 
> physiologically speaking, that skews towards the preference for the upward 
> saddle tilt for an upright riding position? I'm certainly no expert on bike 
> fit, but is there a logical justification for it, other than just personal 
> preference? Has anyone else here had a similar experience? I'm going to keep 
> it this way for a while to see if my hunch continues to bear fruit - fingers 
> crossed.
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