Re: [Rcpp-devel] statement about rcpp11 ?
Jonathon, You asked me about Rcpp11 -- but I don't think I should take that question, or at least not in this forum (ask me somewhere else one day, preferably over a cold drink). Why, you ask? Two reasons: First, this is the rcpp-devel list dedicated to deployment and development of Rcpp. Second, I am not involved in Rcpp11, and am probably not the person you want speaking about it. Now, there were two related follow-ups regarding Rcpp, and I address those below. | (because presumably Rcpp doesn't support C++11... but of course it does). Indeed. We said it several times, but it bears repeating: Rcpp has supported C++11 for years, and will continue to do so. Similarly, support for C++14, C++17, ... will be added as compiler (mainly g++ and clang++) support grows. The Rcpp team strives to keep all options open going forward as both compilers and the R build system support them -- but without foregoing backwards compatibility which is important to us as well. To us, this arrangement offers the best of both worlds. New C++ language features are available to all, yet users of existing code can be assurred that it ought to run as it has before. | what is the future of rcpp? Rcpp is being actively developed by several of us, and we plan on adding lots more features and refinements in the years ahead. And usage of Rcpp is equally vibrant: we passed the '200 packages on CRAN' mark in April, and are now already more than a third higher at 274 on CRAN, plus 27 more on BioC [release, more in dev], much more on GitHub etc pp. Hope this helps, Dirk -- http://dirk.eddelbuettel.com | @eddelbuettel | e...@debian.org ___ Rcpp-devel mailing list Rcpp-devel@lists.r-forge.r-project.org https://lists.r-forge.r-project.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/rcpp-devel
Re: [Rcpp-devel] statement about rcpp11 ?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 thanks dirk, i appreciate you taking the time to respond; and this makes things clearer for me going forward. cheers jonathon | what is the future of rcpp? Rcpp is being actively developed by several of us, and we plan on adding lots more features and refinements in the years ahead. And usage of Rcpp is equally vibrant: we passed the '200 packages on CRAN' mark in April, and are now already more than a third higher at 274 on CRAN, plus 27 more on BioC [release, more in dev], much more on GitHub etc pp. Hope this helps, Dirk - -- JASP - A Fresh Way to Do Statistics http://jasp-stats.org/ - -- How happy is he born and taught, That serveth not another's will; Whose armour is his honest thought, And simple truth his utmost skill This man is freed from servile bands Of hope to rise, or fear to fall: Lord of himself, though not of lands, And, having nothing, yet hath all. -- Sir Henry Wotton -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.20 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJUK/WxAAoJEH277gjmPGDYoEcP/2AW7wD87WjmCfw9/Jho+f+a ZcrgyzLKE9zskZE8UbqrAAAHxexL2fSQWsMFsqbRzktVfNoyF/EPYQvf4x2BIwgY yC782OXaY5xU/hkpR6xcKjX5SOWUFWk7ygT3MyXRd5dq0EEBys3IHXu+BHuIS1UN 0S8xUq8pmqlPdTAcEuO4cvqO1DGsVvJzZfAAF392K7puTn0mt7C+zuAiqoQu9QOP zdqMQ43lqe8EB+/awGrKAeV4I02lM6xkwyJPb/8OKgW6h7tIZOJdWeSdpGAdNpOH sKnsQ+x+ko86ooegD9UIyFUjZP30z31dD/PLQ49DKQ1LyhBTD32gweDK25+VTcB/ kbqsRqEjAVpcluPW9KPn6xWIMGmVLZsd0Mv45r+AiMXZzcm22DAopnA/WMZhDoTZ W5hIe9GhIvIeUWsPEQOFm1DA8IxxsEov4oH0xwSU5C/hsqR3VcudH83QyhbuP1bA Q+thibpElo42gXbJunn5r2clxNAzjyPh5rN7jvJIhmMfr/+GTfQlOHvrGUax62RQ eXxcxyocPeCU+FZ4PifGg0w/kLd5Nr7+aM/pf1p8WFM9Mv6aYYEvKJsnwknm6bSs B+KRgwkWTFEVoc1mlZNK1tWYs7V4VpFmyjj7AtG+dHJNPQryCjhDfIF6oqUyZS1B UDopvEJMukOEGEMkiwxY =OBtn -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Rcpp-devel mailing list Rcpp-devel@lists.r-forge.r-project.org https://lists.r-forge.r-project.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/rcpp-devel
Re: [Rcpp-devel] statement about rcpp11 ?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 thanks for your response romain, If you want to have a private conversation with Dirk, just email him directly sure, but i expect i'm not the only one interested in his response. Just use whatever version is best for your needs. sure, i get that; but i (and i imagine others) would be interested to hear dirk's take on it. the reality is that we can't read every piece of code to evaluate software projects, and so we often come to rely on the opinion of an experienced professional that we have come to trust; and for me (and others!) that's dirk. anyhow, dirk, still keen to hear your thoughts :), and find your silence on this a little perplexing. kind regards jonathon - -- JASP - A Fresh Way to Do Statistics http://jasp-stats.org/ - -- How happy is he born and taught, That serveth not another's will; Whose armour is his honest thought, And simple truth his utmost skill This man is freed from servile bands Of hope to rise, or fear to fall: Lord of himself, though not of lands, And, having nothing, yet hath all. -- Sir Henry Wotton -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.20 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJUKuvZAAoJEH277gjmPGDY+xAP/iVxsvweH0cIMzb48xPoC/Wf ly4/mdpy8W4tWsm8ykHXmR+AeAfzJMBfzvyDQrigRmt4/Az9swQcntrT8EmpbkZI fp9irfRZXOBApzKKMcfBLeEJrIoUbEhBR1G+qfhGaBpS7au+pS4tCKkJlaLgf0Zk QsSPNB0LrIQURastycBRcAJ9+VxjcKym3TeC/e3fTZJRIeQPtyjHthkpIPFZFzUK bCV2sIHIErWCdZcznZ2CaQD6vDh1fs0glevz6EaWyN2q5UPpJ8E49s8jCXeWc1na Y11D9EBA/Sw+y/gSmUbsDqf7VmW/F29Lz1ExrJaWdo+kILA3ze/TP4yYUnFNGGM6 EiKRlyEoLjULRWKZEtmUBVjk7NqSkhYB5mJCd9sbzWdJQa79UxHsePdfCHSy93MM 02efIY6RqdAQPh6otqGiWtXT1P/qqrcYXvaHWHUO23iVu+Ii8rKgAcreY8bVbR5S 9uKFuAmDNZ/69WEWSld9dD5tqrdgePcc1lEud/fdVGS595Pz9YBfO0evpm12ic/G kcK8O4BwbbZjN18LVzMYHHUl4C+NCiRrT7OShLLsFWVsJSSjFBovq2Z8VHtQyW5j cCMoKLIn268lLCP8mgP0gZwOUM0ZaYMXs5Q1BR/gfB5IyJVmwzCDeCn9xgLOo5Xs BDbIzP2LvNa5qMVo5TNR =k+lg -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Rcpp-devel mailing list Rcpp-devel@lists.r-forge.r-project.org https://lists.r-forge.r-project.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/rcpp-devel
Re: [Rcpp-devel] statement about rcpp11 ?
On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 1:43 PM, Jonathon Love j...@thon.cc wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 thanks for your response romain, If you want to have a private conversation with Dirk, just email him directly sure, but i expect i'm not the only one interested in his response. Just use whatever version is best for your needs. sure, i get that; but i (and i imagine others) would be interested to hear dirk's take on it. the reality is that we can't read every piece of code to evaluate software projects, and so we often come to rely on the opinion of an experienced professional that we have come to trust; and for me (and others!) that's dirk.\ That makes sense, but if you search the list archives (which is generally requested of folks writing to the list) you would notice some context which makes your original questions look a little bit like trolling---having seen previous exchanges on the topic of Rcpp11, I couldn't tell if you were serious or not. Hope that helps, Krzysztof anyhow, dirk, still keen to hear your thoughts :), and find your silence on this a little perplexing. kind regards jonathon - -- JASP - A Fresh Way to Do Statistics http://jasp-stats.org/ - -- How happy is he born and taught, That serveth not another's will; Whose armour is his honest thought, And simple truth his utmost skill This man is freed from servile bands Of hope to rise, or fear to fall: Lord of himself, though not of lands, And, having nothing, yet hath all. -- Sir Henry Wotton -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.20 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJUKuvZAAoJEH277gjmPGDY+xAP/iVxsvweH0cIMzb48xPoC/Wf ly4/mdpy8W4tWsm8ykHXmR+AeAfzJMBfzvyDQrigRmt4/Az9swQcntrT8EmpbkZI fp9irfRZXOBApzKKMcfBLeEJrIoUbEhBR1G+qfhGaBpS7au+pS4tCKkJlaLgf0Zk QsSPNB0LrIQURastycBRcAJ9+VxjcKym3TeC/e3fTZJRIeQPtyjHthkpIPFZFzUK bCV2sIHIErWCdZcznZ2CaQD6vDh1fs0glevz6EaWyN2q5UPpJ8E49s8jCXeWc1na Y11D9EBA/Sw+y/gSmUbsDqf7VmW/F29Lz1ExrJaWdo+kILA3ze/TP4yYUnFNGGM6 EiKRlyEoLjULRWKZEtmUBVjk7NqSkhYB5mJCd9sbzWdJQa79UxHsePdfCHSy93MM 02efIY6RqdAQPh6otqGiWtXT1P/qqrcYXvaHWHUO23iVu+Ii8rKgAcreY8bVbR5S 9uKFuAmDNZ/69WEWSld9dD5tqrdgePcc1lEud/fdVGS595Pz9YBfO0evpm12ic/G kcK8O4BwbbZjN18LVzMYHHUl4C+NCiRrT7OShLLsFWVsJSSjFBovq2Z8VHtQyW5j cCMoKLIn268lLCP8mgP0gZwOUM0ZaYMXs5Q1BR/gfB5IyJVmwzCDeCn9xgLOo5Xs BDbIzP2LvNa5qMVo5TNR =k+lg -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Rcpp-devel mailing list Rcpp-devel@lists.r-forge.r-project.org https://lists.r-forge.r-project.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/rcpp-devel ___ Rcpp-devel mailing list Rcpp-devel@lists.r-forge.r-project.org https://lists.r-forge.r-project.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/rcpp-devel
Re: [Rcpp-devel] statement about rcpp11 ?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 That makes sense, but if you search the list archives (which is generally requested of folks writing to the list) you would notice some context which makes your original questions look a little bit like trolling---having seen previous exchanges on the topic of Rcpp11, I couldn't tell if you were serious or not. sorry, this was not my intention. in my googling of the list i discovered some conflict on whether Rcpp11 issues should be discussed on this Rcpp mailing list, but not anything more; perhaps i overlooked something obvious. with thanks jonathon - -- JASP - A Fresh Way to Do Statistics http://jasp-stats.org/ - -- How happy is he born and taught, That serveth not another's will; Whose armour is his honest thought, And simple truth his utmost skill This man is freed from servile bands Of hope to rise, or fear to fall: Lord of himself, though not of lands, And, having nothing, yet hath all. -- Sir Henry Wotton -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.20 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJUKvovAAoJEH277gjmPGDYtpUP/3JWTVKWwWkRmcTKIDuRLuC1 rXew5YK/UBE6MNR+GrO1rdnYql4eFFCmTEtRw+cXggZvazMrgsdvzYelBiLPf/ke upvpdz5z4Zp/qZQfyouaQAo/f9Z8j2LQr5jDhOcRg3gLdNdCvyDW5EkfcLP8wlre b7IbHUghgLzIULggNBgllc7LESqrJj5R/tnNME4taBrix5Dfq3GPVrr7rXV/PtxC in8NfsFSMSlmSLwRVbm7CVWwMqp3rlQslS8WxxwY2kC8AD4b/vc7wpP5dvUGBZbZ OU2FdgSjQp8lNBfcMx7StCbAwrNbXXMff9H6w5mT53q/II6iUiAYJ19f+9vKwK6c nI+Oa8R/KNBno43rA7OeCqNA8LI44hswhiWlQb68mgPQkuSby1kwAUj0oGKAvRco tqp6fDgqhOhgpn9CHI2SAPMwV3M45oMMSkqaSMsEaW5ci4MX6wboUh80W7LduyR+ ptldGBWRNnNY5NzduXGO8O5sR79tp29CuaXW+V2FoMheotZ9DPDqRGZm1wdB/jDU Cd+FwoNxabGcJxQiMvhLL8SkkZDBHiPDea0DzVQzIEJx2wgvilJaURKqRqoSYgJB ulyrhCcHcPxuv68Ghl+lfFjtxFy6WVYaaIuxBM1NK+lQWaEO8BZ6WiWjv2mvQjQJ sCP3ztf+Xi77ivYC4150 =uiw5 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Rcpp-devel mailing list Rcpp-devel@lists.r-forge.r-project.org https://lists.r-forge.r-project.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/rcpp-devel
[Rcpp-devel] statement about rcpp11 ?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 hey dirk, i was wondering if you could let us know your thoughts about Rcpp11. i've found it a little bit confusing, because at first i thought people were just talking about Rcpp (which happens to be at version 0.11). then i thought it was a newer version of Rcpp, but of course it isn't. then i thought it was a version of Rcpp for use with C++11 (because presumably Rcpp doesn't support C++11... but of course it does). so the name alone appears to have been chosen to maximise confusion, but i was wondering what you thought about it technically. do you see it replacing ol' Rcpp, and new projects should make an effort to use it instead? do you see Rcpp being retired as a result? what is the future of rcpp? perhaps these might make good FAQ entries. with thanks jonathon - -- JASP - A Fresh Way to Do Statistics http://jasp-stats.org/ - -- How happy is he born and taught, That serveth not another's will; Whose armour is his honest thought, And simple truth his utmost skill This man is freed from servile bands Of hope to rise, or fear to fall: Lord of himself, though not of lands, And, having nothing, yet hath all. -- Sir Henry Wotton -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.20 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJUKcQ+AAoJEH277gjmPGDYpQUP/3ZzHX2qzH+tGn7ZuqWkwKxi T2YltYMPEMTrj0uMO3cazyMELm9UKQw+mUWKq6bMI1V84c/Mu6nbzsWwdF1/ceP6 wPJHZZoMByqmy+NfiCsdS1NK1fCtGY8d+7fmuckVGq0ZaS/5402xln3THgzKYyt4 5PT5n1K2scbNxd43GY6YSeBIfvNrec8llXjzq4TIKlbQNEOsROF1q6AFRAY1jhBN 5GtkiqVKYqr9wXIF1KMRh8F5m/XIuDD3bipw//bKRJ/XF7VWUJt1UMYO+XdH/Uo3 KTtjo+dGAkd3Cp+5+nKb7GNGiGiP5OGt5lLnwGrapSrhzhmLUWW/S/oqxIhlEM3g ctmM8BrYNEoscY/QsazxOO2/hzc3Jwe/FxxEulAShSB6B9X5LXFL89aYq4cwHKSI TWOBH7rbOfN4LAKInMwzmGRO+G9UHEY5/L4+XnB/DZa1gGN6GdFpghnu06bBabAX 0Lucjwv/5464h/uZRRSgxtMEXORKbhcp4KnfXjXyBy7pKmkZZmpb62fLYoJnqKlJ s9pnPY1AcY7eK5EjE8hEti8c8Ynqwhv5AMKocj3D/wTlX85CbgN5fSogem3VJd8h qeaQQdL/XogKCKGWaLBdObHApl5ZfNu8BkmtSeYGm13YzizD2LlI8G77ukLG7pAy 2xAwcawwi+dOsFPxrskd =DvnH -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Rcpp-devel mailing list Rcpp-devel@lists.r-forge.r-project.org https://lists.r-forge.r-project.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/rcpp-devel
Re: [Rcpp-devel] statement about rcpp11 ?
If you want to have a private conversation with Dirk, just email him directly: e...@debian.org Now since this is all in the open, let me participate to this. Le 29 sept. 2014 à 22:42, Jonathon Love j...@thon.cc a écrit : -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 hey dirk, i was wondering if you could let us know your thoughts about Rcpp11. i've found it a little bit confusing, because at first i thought people were just talking about Rcpp (which happens to be at version 0.11). I also found it confusing that Rcpp's version became 0.11.* I guess we had it coming after 0.10.* since apparently for some reason it is trapped in the 0.* land forever then i thought it was a newer version of Rcpp, but of course it isn't. then i thought it was a version of Rcpp for use with C++11 (because presumably Rcpp doesn't support C++11... but of course it does). Yes you can use C++11 with Rcpp, and for that matter you can even use C++11 without Rcpp. You can do arcane .Call stuff on the outside and have C++11 code inside. Now Rcpp11 is a complete redesign, focusing on C++11, it means that it actively uses C++11, as opposed to let you use it. It has also allowed us to step back from mistakes that were made along the way when developing Rcpp such as (this is just one example) complexity of too many undocumented constructors for *Vector classes. Doing this is impossible with Rcpp which has to carry the weight of dependency. so the name alone appears to have been chosen to maximise confusion Not at all. Rcpp11 stands for R and C++11. From my point of view, the confusion comes from the versioning of Rcpp. Perhaps Rcpp will hit version 0.14.* when I start working on Rcpp14 soon. How convenient would that be. but i was wondering what you thought about it technically. do you see it replacing ol' Rcpp, and new projects should make an effort to use it instead? do you see Rcpp being retired as a result? what is the future of repp? They will coexist, are maintained by two different persons who have different goals. And that's fine. Right now CRAN makes it difficult to depend on Rcpp11, but we have implemented a workaround, so the next version of Rcpp11 (to be released when the next R is released) will be CRAN proof. Just use whatever version is best for your needs. I'm spending a great deal of energy and time (although perhaps not lately) on developing Rcpp11, but I still use Rcpp for projects for which it makes sense, e.g. dplyr uses Rcpp. perhaps these might make good FAQ entries. with thanks jonathon ___ Rcpp-devel mailing list Rcpp-devel@lists.r-forge.r-project.org https://lists.r-forge.r-project.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/rcpp-devel
Re: [Rcpp-devel] statement about rcpp11 ?
Hi all, I'll throw in my two cents as well. I personally found it confusing when I first encountered Rcpp11 some time ago. This entirely stemmed from my lack of knowledge about the exact distinction between C++ and C++11, and the boundary between Rcpp and C++ (I was learning Rcpp/C++ as I went, working from a rudimentary knowledge of C). So I think Jonathon's suggestion of FAQ entries would be useful, if only for those who dive into Rcpp without knowing a whole lot about C++ to begin with. Cheers, Scott Ritchie On 30 September 2014 07:08, Romain Francois rom...@r-enthusiasts.com wrote: If you want to have a private conversation with Dirk, just email him directly: e...@debian.org Now since this is all in the open, let me participate to this. Le 29 sept. 2014 à 22:42, Jonathon Love j...@thon.cc a écrit : -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 hey dirk, i was wondering if you could let us know your thoughts about Rcpp11. i've found it a little bit confusing, because at first i thought people were just talking about Rcpp (which happens to be at version 0.11). I also found it confusing that Rcpp's version became 0.11.* I guess we had it coming after 0.10.* since apparently for some reason it is trapped in the 0.* land forever then i thought it was a newer version of Rcpp, but of course it isn't. then i thought it was a version of Rcpp for use with C++11 (because presumably Rcpp doesn't support C++11... but of course it does). Yes you can use C++11 with Rcpp, and for that matter you can even use C++11 without Rcpp. You can do arcane .Call stuff on the outside and have C++11 code inside. Now Rcpp11 is a complete redesign, focusing on C++11, it means that it actively uses C++11, as opposed to let you use it. It has also allowed us to step back from mistakes that were made along the way when developing Rcpp such as (this is just one example) complexity of too many undocumented constructors for *Vector classes. Doing this is impossible with Rcpp which has to carry the weight of dependency. so the name alone appears to have been chosen to maximise confusion Not at all. Rcpp11 stands for R and C++11. From my point of view, the confusion comes from the versioning of Rcpp. Perhaps Rcpp will hit version 0.14.* when I start working on Rcpp14 soon. How convenient would that be. but i was wondering what you thought about it technically. do you see it replacing ol' Rcpp, and new projects should make an effort to use it instead? do you see Rcpp being retired as a result? what is the future of repp? They will coexist, are maintained by two different persons who have different goals. And that's fine. Right now CRAN makes it difficult to depend on Rcpp11, but we have implemented a workaround, so the next version of Rcpp11 (to be released when the next R is released) will be CRAN proof. Just use whatever version is best for your needs. I'm spending a great deal of energy and time (although perhaps not lately) on developing Rcpp11, but I still use Rcpp for projects for which it makes sense, e.g. dplyr uses Rcpp. perhaps these might make good FAQ entries. with thanks jonathon ___ Rcpp-devel mailing list Rcpp-devel@lists.r-forge.r-project.org https://lists.r-forge.r-project.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/rcpp-devel ___ Rcpp-devel mailing list Rcpp-devel@lists.r-forge.r-project.org https://lists.r-forge.r-project.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/rcpp-devel
