Re: [RDA-L] Illustration terms in 7.15.1.3
Hi everyone!
I had a very similar case yesterday: a book containing solely illustrations.
Some of the illustrations had colour, but most of them were bw. Since we
cannot refer to the illustration in 300$b (RDA defines it as « secondary
content »), I wasn't sure how to record the information...
7.17.2.3 does not give explicit instruction for such a case ... Finally, I gave
: 1 volume (non paginé) :$b en partie en couleur ;$c28 cm (i.e. 1 volume
(unpaged) : some colour ; 28 cm).
I am not sure it is permitted, but it seemed like the best option...
Greetings!
Marie-Chantal L'Ecuyer-Coelho
Bibliothécaire
Direction du traitement documentaire des collections patrimoniales
Bibliothèque et Archives nationales du Québec
2275, rue Holt
Montréal (Québec) H2G 3H1
Téléphone : 514-873-1101 poste 3730
mc.coe...@banq.qc.ca
www.banq.qc.ca
Avis de confidentialité Ce courriel est une communication confidentielle et
l'information qu'il contient est réservée à l'usage exclusif du destinataire.
Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire visé, vous n'avez aucun droit d'utiliser
cette information, de la copier, de la distribuer ou de la diffuser. Si cette
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-Message d'origine-
De : Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access
[mailto:RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca] De la part de J. McRee Elrod
Envoyé : 15 août 2013 17:45
À : RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca
Objet : Re: [RDA-L] Illustration terms in 7.15.1.3
Greta de Groat said:
... so i think you are stuck with 300 photographs.
I've never seen a coffee table book with actual photographs on
sensitive paper. Also, the pages may be numbered, with a varying
numbers of pictures per page, but the pictures not numbered.
If one is uncomfortable with illustrations in 300 $b, when the
pictures are the main content as opposed to illustrating text, and we
aren't allowed all pictures or chiefly illustrations in 300 $b,
then how about:
300 $a300 pages (pictures) :$bcolour ;$c31 cm.
I agree with Hedrun that 1 atlas (300 pages) is strange, so I would
not suggest 1 picture book (300 pages). For the atlas I would prefer
300 pages (maps).
That's the pattern suggested for large print.
Lacuna in RDA should not be an excuse for silly collations.
__ __ J. McRee (Mac) Elrod (m...@slc.bc.ca)
{__ | / Special Libraries Cataloguing HTTP://www.slc.bc.ca/
___} |__ \__
Re: [RDA-L] Illustration terms in 7.15.1.3
Hi! I think it is extremely confusing because, under 3.4.4, still image includes paintings (without specifying what the carrier must be), while under 3.5.3, the rule for dimensions only applies to documents on sheet (therefore, I assume a painting on canvas, a fresco on plaster slab or an encaustic on wood panel would have to be measured according to 3.5.1). One of the major problems is that exceptionally (and for pragmatic reasons), the rules for graphic and cartographic materials refer to the resource's content (e.g. still image) rather than to the actual carrier (e.g. the sheet of paper). Therefore, in chap. 3, rules for still images must be nuanced, each time, according to the specific carrier and media (as we can see both under 3.4.4 and 3.5.3)... Marie-Chantal L'Ecuyer-Coelho Bibliothécaire Direction du traitement documentaire des collections patrimoniales Bibliothèque et Archives nationales du Québec 2275, rue Holt Montréal (Québec) H2G 3H1 Téléphone : 514-873-1101 poste 3730 mc.coe...@banq.qc.ca www.banq.qc.ca Avis de confidentialité Ce courriel est une communication confidentielle et l'information qu'il contient est réservée à l'usage exclusif du destinataire. Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire visé, vous n'avez aucun droit d'utiliser cette information, de la copier, de la distribuer ou de la diffuser. Si cette communication vous a été transmise par erreur, veuillez la détruire et nous en aviser immédiatement par courriel. -Message d'origine- De : Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca] De la part de Heidrun Wiesenmüller Envoyé : 15 août 2013 15:33 À : RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca Objet : Re: [RDA-L] Illustration terms in 7.15.1.3 Greta said: I thought that if we decided something was a still image rather than text, that we were required to use the list of still image carriers for the extent at RDA 3.4.4.2. In that case, neither pages nor volume are in that list, so i think you are stuck with 300 photographs. Good point. But I think that the first sentence in 3.4.4.1 only refers to real drawings, photographs etc., and not to reproductions of them: For a resource consisting of one or more still images in the form of drawings, paintings, prints, photographs, etc., record the extent by applying the instructions at 3.4.4.2-3.4.4.5. So, in the case of the coffee-table book I believe 3.4.4.2-3.4.4.5 does not apply. RDA goes on to say: For resources consisting of still images in other media (e.g., slides, transparencies), apply the basic instructions at 3.4.1. So it seems that our coffee-table book should belong there, but of course it is noteworthy that the examples given are slides and transparencies, and not printed material. Then in 3.4.1 we stumble over the exception for text: For resources consisting of printed or manuscript text (with or without accompanying illustrations), see 3.4.5. We've already decided that the pictures in the book are not accompanying illustrations. On the other hand, in 3.4.5.1 the scope is slightly differently phrased: For a printed or manuscript resource consisting of text (with or without illustrations) I'd say as long as my book has a bit of text (it probably will have some introductory pages and captions for the photographs) I'm fine with using 3.4.5. But I agree that it's all a bit fishy here. Also, what would we do if the book had only the photographs, and absolutely no text at all? Then we'd have to use the basic rule in 3.4.1.3. The carrier type would still be volume, so my guess is: 1 volume (300 photographs). Isn't RDA fun? Heidrun -- - Prof. Heidrun Wiesenmueller M.A. Stuttgart Media University Wolframstr. 32, 70191 Stuttgart, Germany www.hdm-stuttgart.de/bi
Re: [RDA-L] Illustration terms in 7.15.1.3
Whaha! I am reading my mails backwards and just noticed you already mentionned the confusion between carrier and content :) Marie-Chantal L'Ecuyer-Coelho Bibliothécaire Direction du traitement documentaire des collections patrimoniales Bibliothèque et Archives nationales du Québec 2275, rue Holt Montréal (Québec) H2G 3H1 Téléphone : 514-873-1101 poste 3730 mc.coe...@banq.qc.ca www.banq.qc.ca Avis de confidentialité Ce courriel est une communication confidentielle et l'information qu'il contient est réservée à l'usage exclusif du destinataire. Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire visé, vous n'avez aucun droit d'utiliser cette information, de la copier, de la distribuer ou de la diffuser. Si cette communication vous a été transmise par erreur, veuillez la détruire et nous en aviser immédiatement par courriel. -Message d'origine- De : Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca] De la part de Heidrun Wiesenmüller Envoyé : 15 août 2013 15:08 À : RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca Objet : Re: [RDA-L] Illustration terms in 7.15.1.3 Francis, I believe RDA could be altered to make a clearer distinction between extent of carrier and extent of content. The proposal for an Extent of Expression element is one of the key components of a discussion paper (on machine-actionable data) to be brought before JSC later this year: http://www.rda-jsc.org/docs/6JSC-ALA-Discussion-1.pdf Thanks, I just worked my way through that. It may be of interest that for German catalogers the idea of recording something like 1 atlas (37 maps) is rather bewildering. For a printed atlas, the physical description according to the German RAK rules looks like this: 476 p. : chiefly maps The same principle goes for printed music. So, the German rules have a bit less mixing up of content and carrier here. We do record things like 1 map, though. One might argue that some of the terms we currently use to record Extent of Still Images (3.4.4.2) more accurately describe extent of content. The same might be said of some of the other format-specific subelements. In your example of the coffee-table book, we could say that the Extent of Expression (content) is 300 photographs, while the Extent of Carrier is 350 pages. That sounds very plausible to me, and I think having an extent of expression element would be a good thing. I wouldn't be happy if I had to count the pictures in my coffee-table book for this, but I assume that a subsequent proposal would not call for this. Heidrun -- - Prof. Heidrun Wiesenmueller M.A. Stuttgart Media University Wolframstr. 32, 70191 Stuttgart, Germany www.hdm-stuttgart.de/bi
[RDA-L] 300 $b for still images in volume format
Hi again!
I don't think I would write up a content note in 520 since in 336 the content
type is clearly defined as still image. Now, for « normal » still images (i.e.
pictures on a sheet of paper or other 2D carrier), we never include terms like
« ill. » or « images » since it would be redundant to say an image is
illustrated! We simply recorded « colour », bw, « some colour », or even «
colour and bw » (if using ISBN (NB))
Where I get a little confused, however, is when we're talking about still
images gathered as a volume. I took for granted that, like still images in 2D
format, we would not be allowed to repeat « images » or « illustration » since
we already had the 336 specifying the book only contains images.
Perhaps if I count the pages, I could then record:
65 unnumbered pages : some color ; 28 cm
Would that be better???
Have a great weekend everyone!
Marie-Chantal L'Ecuyer-Coelho
Bibliothécaire
Direction du traitement documentaire des collections patrimoniales
Bibliothèque et Archives nationales du Québec
2275, rue Holt
Montréal (Québec) H2G 3H1
Téléphone : 514-873-1101 poste 3730
mc.coe...@banq.qc.ca
www.banq.qc.ca
Avis de confidentialité Ce courriel est une communication confidentielle et
l'information qu'il contient est réservée à l'usage exclusif du destinataire.
Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire visé, vous n'avez aucun droit d'utiliser
cette information, de la copier, de la distribuer ou de la diffuser. Si cette
communication vous a été transmise par erreur, veuillez la détruire et nous en
aviser immédiatement par courriel.
-Message d'origine-
De : Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access
[mailto:RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca] De la part de J. McRee Elrod
Envoyé : 16 août 2013 12:50
À : RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca
Objet : Re: [RDA-L] Illustration terms in 7.15.1.3
Heidrun said:
I think we'll have to discuss that for the German application. Judging
from the discussion here and some examples I've seen, I'm not so sure
this rule has been universally followed (although I see your point).
Even the AACR2 glossary does not have a definition of photograph.
But in the Autocat archives (a decade of so ago I think) you will find
the definition discussed.
Has any rule ever been universally followed? Yes, cataloguers often
mistakenly call reproduced pictures photographs.
For hugh inconsistency consider the misinterpretation of the AACR2
rule on place of publication jurisdiction. The rule has the *same* if
needed provision for transcribing or supplying jurisdiction, yet I have
seen:
Boston
Boston, MA
Boston, MA USA
Boston, Mass.
Boston, Mass. USA
Boston [Mass.]
and even Boston [MA]
Just transcribe or supply the !@#$%^ jurisdiction! A city known in
the Beltway may not be known in Tokyo. It's faster to just give it
than to ponder, or consult a list as do the Australians. Since WA
can be Washington State or Western Australia, I don't think postal
codes should be transcribed or supplied, unless part of the
publisher's address in parentheses following the jurisdiction.
At least we gained the option to supply jurisdiction added to RDA, as
opposed to putting it in a note.
We need a fuller RDA glossary, and one which does not include the word
being defined in the definition, and doesn't misdefine computer.
In another post:
1 volume (non paginé) :$b en partie en couleur ;$c28 cm
How would the patron know it's pictures? I suppose you could say so
in a 520, but I would like something in 300.
How about:
1 volume (non pagine) :$bimages en partie en couleur ;$c28 cm
You are saying that the images are some in colour. It seems
appropriate me me to say to *what* couleur applies. We are not
talking about the volume's dust cover or binding.
__ __ J. McRee (Mac) Elrod (m...@slc.bc.ca)
{__ | / Special Libraries Cataloguing HTTP://www.slc.bc.ca/
___} |__ \__
Re: [RDA-L] Capitalization in 2.9.4.4
Hi! Perhaps the solution is to give rare/older materials cataloguers the possibility to record phrases such as « published by » as an optional addition ... Otherwise, the general instruction could simply ask cataloguers to record the name of the publisher, distributer, etc. ... Marie-Chantal L'Ecuyer-Coelho Bibliothécaire Direction du traitement documentaire des collections patrimoniales Bibliothèque et Archives nationales du Québec 2275, rue Holt Montréal (Québec) H2G 3H1 Téléphone : 514-873-1101 poste 3730 mc.coe...@banq.qc.ca www.banq.qc.ca Avis de confidentialité Ce courriel est une communication confidentielle et l'information qu'il contient est réservée à l'usage exclusif du destinataire. Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire visé, vous n'avez aucun droit d'utiliser cette information, de la copier, de la distribuer ou de la diffuser. Si cette communication vous a été transmise par erreur, veuillez la détruire et nous en aviser immédiatement par courriel. -Message d'origine- De : Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca] De la part de Heidrun Wiesenmüller Envoyé : 8 août 2013 17:10 À : RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca Objet : Re: [RDA-L] Capitalization in 2.9.4.4 Mac said: My reaction is, why is this phrase included, when function is covered by 264 2nd indicators? My understanding is that transcribing things like Distributed by ... is all about the so-called principle of representation: The data describing a resource should reflect the resource's representation of itself. (0.4.3.4). If you think about it, it's not really that much different from giving a statement of responsibility like by XY in addition to recording a creator relationship to XY and adding an appropriate relationship designator. You could argue that if the name of the element and the relationship designator are displayed, then all the necessary information is already there. Giving the statement of responsibility as well might be considered redundant information. But we still give it, because it is valuable in itself to show exactly *how* the information about the author is presented on the resource. I think this also applies to these statements of function, although this information is probably of less importance to our users. On the other hand, the proposal mentioned by Francis http://www.rda-jsc.org/docs/6JSC-LC-24.pdf even proposes transcribing things like published by, arguing: Differences between publication statements help users identify different manifestations of a work. This is especially important for manifestations without ISBNs, which did not appear on manifestations until the later part of the 20th century. One manifestation of a work might say Published by Isaac Riley and another might say Isaac Riley, Publisher. (I'm not sure how often this case occurs, though). Admittedly, I sometimes wonder whether RDA doesn't take the principle of representation a bit too far. For example, in shortening names of publishers, the older codes of rules like AACR2 and RAK definitely violated the principle of representation. But I can also see an advantage in this and similar practices: You could say that catalogers did some preprocessing with the raw data found on the source by clearly bringing out the things which are really important for the users, separating them from the noise around them. Now, in times of RDA, our users have to find their way for themselves - through things like legal information about publishers (Ltd.) or their advertising slogans (Peter Lang, Internationaler Verlag der Wissenschaften, i.e. international publisher of sciences). If one of the main aims of description is to represent the resource as it represents itself, then perhaps a scan of the title pages would work just as well. (Sorry for being a bit provocative here). Heidrun -- - Prof. Heidrun Wiesenmueller M.A. Stuttgart Media University Wolframstr. 32, 70191 Stuttgart, Germany www.hdm-stuttgart.de/bi
[RDA-L] Date given in an incomplete form
Hi, I am presently describing an etching. The artist simply wrote « 61 » as year of production, under the image. Does it means I must record « 61 » in 264 $c, and then write up a note ? As much as I can tell, we're not allowed to use « 61 [i.e. 1961] » or « [19]61 ». What do you think ? Thank you! Marie-Chantal L'Ecuyer-Coelho Bibliothécaire Direction du traitement documentaire des collections patrimoniales Bibliothèque et Archives nationales du Québec 2275, rue Holt Montréal (Québec) H2G 3H1 Téléphone : 514-873-1101 poste 3730 mc.coe...@banq.qc.ca mailto:mc.coe...@banq.qc.ca www.banq.qc.ca http://www.banq.qc.ca/ Avis de confidentialité Ce courriel est une communication confidentielle et l'information qu'il contient est réservée à l'usage exclusif du destinataire. Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire visé, vous n'avez aucun droit d'utiliser cette information, de la copier, de la distribuer ou de la diffuser. Si cette communication vous a été transmise par erreur, veuillez la détruire et nous en aviser immédiatement par courriel.
Re: [RDA-L] Date given in an incomplete form
Hi!
Yes, I am dealing with the original intaglio.
Marie-Chantal L'Ecuyer-Coelho
Bibliothécaire
Direction du traitement documentaire des collections patrimoniales
Bibliothèque et Archives nationales du Québec
2275, rue Holt
Montréal (Québec) H2G 3H1
Téléphone : 514-873-1101 poste 3730
mc.coe...@banq.qc.ca
www.banq.qc.ca
Avis de confidentialité Ce courriel est une communication confidentielle et
l'information qu'il contient est réservée à l'usage exclusif du destinataire.
Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire visé, vous n'avez aucun droit d'utiliser
cette information, de la copier, de la distribuer ou de la diffuser. Si cette
communication vous a été transmise par erreur, veuillez la détruire et nous en
aviser immédiatement par courriel.
-Message d'origine-
De : J. McRee Elrod [mailto:m...@slc.bc.ca]
Envoyé : 8 août 2013 13:26
À : =?iso-8859-1?Q?L=27=C9cuyer-Coelho_Marie-Chantal?=@kepler.riq.qc.ca;
L'Écuyer-Coelho Marie-Chantal
Cc : RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca
Objet : Re: [RDA-L] Date given in an incomplete form
Marie-Chantal posted:
I am presently describing an etching. The artist simply wrote 61 ...
264 0 $a]Place, Jurisdiction] :$bArtist's Name,$c[19]61.
This assumes the artist's name appears on the etching. If it is a
reproduction as apposed to the original etching, the 264 2nd indicator
would be 1.
While we are not allowed to supply missing letters or numbers in 245,
we can in 264 as I understand it.
Waiting for a note to see a correction is one of the greatest
weaknesses of RDa.
__ __ J. McRee (Mac) Elrod (m...@slc.bc.ca)
{__ | / Special Libraries Cataloguing HTTP://www.slc.bc.ca/
___} |__ \__
Re: [RDA-L] Date given in an incomplete form
Hi again! The problem is that we are send from 2.7.6 to 1.8, and then, from 1.8 to 1.7. So the same rules seem to apply to all « transcribed » elements (title, statement of responsibility, edition, production statement, etc ...). If characters are missing in a title, I must write up a note; therefore, the same is probably true for dates, yet, as Mr. Mac Elrod observes, correcting descriptive elements in a note is not always the most elegant solution... Marie-Chantal L'Ecuyer-Coelho Bibliothécaire Direction du traitement documentaire des collections patrimoniales Bibliothèque et Archives nationales du Québec 2275, rue Holt Montréal (Québec) H2G 3H1 Téléphone : 514-873-1101 poste 3730 mc.coe...@banq.qc.ca www.banq.qc.ca
Re: [RDA-L] Date given in an incomplete form
And that's the paradox : it would have been easier to solve the problem had the artist not used the Gregorian calender :-) Marie-Chantal L'Ecuyer-Coelho Bibliothécaire Direction du traitement documentaire des collections patrimoniales Bibliothèque et Archives nationales du Québec 2275, rue Holt Montréal (Québec) H2G 3H1 Téléphone : 514-873-1101 poste 3730 mc.coe...@banq.qc.ca mailto:mc.coe...@banq.qc.ca www.banq.qc.ca http://www.banq.qc.ca/ Avis de confidentialité Ce courriel est une communication confidentielle et l'information qu'il contient est réservée à l'usage exclusif du destinataire. Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire visé, vous n'avez aucun droit d'utiliser cette information, de la copier, de la distribuer ou de la diffuser. Si cette communication vous a été transmise par erreur, veuillez la détruire et nous en aviser immédiatement par courriel. De : Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca] De la part de Joan Wang Envoyé : 8 août 2013 14:44 À : RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca Objet : Re: [RDA-L] Date given in an incomplete form According to RDA 1.4, date of production, as well as date of publication, is a transcribed element. But if the date as it appears in the resource is not of the Gregorian or Julian calendar, we are allowed to supply the corresponding date or dates of the Gregorian or Julian calendar. Thanks, Joan Wang Illinois Heartland Library System On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 1:33 PM, John Hostage host...@law.harvard.edu wrote: The date of production is not a transcribed element. 2.7.6.3 says to record the date of production and then refers to 2.7.1. In 2.7.1.4 it says Transcribe places of production and producers' names as they appear on the source of information but Record dates of production as they appear on the source of information. Supposedly there is a difference between transcribe and record, but what it is here is entirely muddy. -- John Hostage Senior Continuing Resources Cataloger // Harvard Library--Information and Technical Services // Langdell Hall 194 // Cambridge, MA 02138 host...@law.harvard.edu +(1)(617) 495-3974 tel:%2B%281%29%28617%29%20495-3974 (voice) +(1)(617) 496-4409 tel:%2B%281%29%28617%29%20496-4409 (fax) From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of L'Écuyer-Coelho Marie-Chantal Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2013 10:54 To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: [RDA-L] Date given in an incomplete form Hi, I am presently describing an etching. The artist simply wrote « 61 » as year of production, under the image. Does it means I must record « 61 » in 264 $c, and then write up a note ? As much as I can tell, we're not allowed to use « 61 [i.e. 1961] » or « [19]61 ». What do you think ? Thank you! Marie-Chantal L'Ecuyer-Coelho Bibliothécaire Direction du traitement documentaire des collections patrimoniales Bibliothèque et Archives nationales du Québec 2275, rue Holt Montréal (Québec) H2G 3H1 Téléphone : 514-873-1101 poste 3730 mc.coe...@banq.qc.ca mailto:mc.coe...@banq.qc.ca www.banq.qc.ca http://www.banq.qc.ca/ Avis de confidentialité Ce courriel est une communication confidentielle et l'information qu'il contient est réservée à l'usage exclusif du destinataire. Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire visé, vous n'avez aucun droit d'utiliser cette information, de la copier, de la distribuer ou de la diffuser. Si cette communication vous a été transmise par erreur, veuillez la détruire et nous en aviser immédiatement par courriel. -- Zhonghong (Joan) Wang, Ph.D. Cataloger -- CMC Illinois Heartland Library System (Edwardsville Office) 6725 Goshen Road Edwardsville, IL 62025 618.656.3216x409 618.656.9401Fax
Re: [RDA-L] Date given in an incomplete form
Thank you all for your help! I will follow Mrs Fritz recommendation. Also, I believe the proposed change to the last paragraph under 2.7.6.3 would be useful. When dealing with graphic materials and rare documents, one often finds incomplete dates ... Greetings! Marie-Chantal L'Ecuyer-Coelho Bibliothécaire Direction du traitement documentaire des collections patrimoniales Bibliothèque et Archives nationales du Québec 2275, rue Holt Montréal (Québec) H2G 3H1 Téléphone : 514-873-1101 poste 3730 mc.coe...@banq.qc.ca mailto:mc.coe...@banq.qc.ca www.banq.qc.ca http://www.banq.qc.ca/ Avis de confidentialité Ce courriel est une communication confidentielle et l'information qu'il contient est réservée à l'usage exclusif du destinataire. Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire visé, vous n'avez aucun droit d'utiliser cette information, de la copier, de la distribuer ou de la diffuser. Si cette communication vous a été transmise par erreur, veuillez la détruire et nous en aviser immédiatement par courriel. De : Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca] De la part de Deborah Fritz Envoyé : 8 août 2013 14:56 À : RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca Objet : Re: [RDA-L] Date given in an incomplete form Since RDA does not address this situation specifically, you must apply the RDA principles to your decision. Under the principle of representation (put down what you see), if you believe that '61' is the date of production, then you must record it as it appears on the source of information. Here are the steps I used: -- 2.7.6 Date of Production 2.7.6.2 Sources of Information (SOI): Take dates of production from any source. 2.7.6.3 Recording Date of Production: Record the date of production by applying the basic instructions at 2.7.1. 2.7.1 Basic Instructions on Recording Production Statements 2.7.1.4 Recording Production Statements: Record dates of production as they appear on the source of information. Apply the general guidelines on transcription for words that are not numbers (see 1.7). Apply the general guidelines on numbers expressed as numerals or as words (see 1.8). 2.7.6.7 Archival Resources and Collections: If no date can be found in the resource or determined from any other source, estimate the nearest year, decade, century, or other interval as precisely as possible. Indicate that the information was taken from a source outside the resource itself (see 2.2.4). 2.2.4. Other Sources of Information: LC-PCC PS: LC practice/PCC practice: Use square brackets if information taken from a source outside a resource itself is supplied in any of the elements listed. --- Since the 2.7.6.2 SOI is 'Any', I would interpret that to would mean that if you could not find the date in the resource, but could determine it from any other source, you would enter it without square brackets. But if '61' is indeed the date of production, and is given on the resource that way, your only option, as far as I can see is to enter it as given. Is it given as '61 by any chance? If so, I would include that punctuation. Date of Production (264_0$c): 61 Note on Production (500$a): The date of production that is given on the resource as 61 is actually 1961. In MARC you would enter '1961' as the 008Date1, and in most OPACs that is the date that will display in lists. Once we are out of MARC we will be able to set up our displays more easily that we do now, and so could, if we choose, display a 'Note on Production' right after the Production Statement. Personally, I rather like the idea of extending the optional addition allowed for dates not of the Gregorian or Julian calendars and for Chronograms, to incomplete dates (Date of Production: 61 [1961]). But if that is not in line with the RDA thinking on this, then I would suggest the following change to the last paragraph at 2.7.6.3, just to clarify matters: Change: If the date as it appears in the resource is known to be fictitious or incorrect, make a note giving the actual date (see 2.20.6.3). To: If the date as it appears in the resource is known to be fictitious, incorrect, or incomplete, make a note giving the actual date (see 2.20.6.3). Deborah - - - - - - - - Deborah Fritz TMQ, Inc. debo...@marcofquality.com www.marcofquality.com -Original Message- From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of L'Écuyer-Coelho Marie-Chantal Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2013 2:15 PM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Date given in an incomplete form Hi! Yes, I am dealing with the original intaglio. Marie-Chantal L'Ecuyer-Coelho Bibliothécaire Direction du traitement documentaire des collections patrimoniales Bibliothèque et Archives
