Re: [RDA-L] Unnumbered page in a 504 note
Better examples can be found at 3.4.5 + dealing with pagination in general On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 11:41 PM, Gene Fieg wrote: > Just a question: how are unprinted page numbers a "quoted note"? > > > On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 1:54 PM, Schroeder, Elizabeth E. < > eeschroed...@stritch.edu> wrote: > >> LC PCC PS 1.7.1 is a guideline for all notes, including a 504. As you >> say, 504 does not contain quoted data. Since the instruction for square >> brackets says they are to be used only in the case of quoted data, they >> should not be used for the case of unprinted page numbers. This is a >> departure from past practice. >> >> ** ** >> >> Hope this helps, >> >> Lizzy >> >> ** ** >> >> *Elizabeth Schroeder* >> >> Cataloging/Metadata Librarian >> >> ** ** >> >> *Cardinal Stritch University Library* >> >> *Phone: *414-410-4258 >> >> *E-mail:* eeschroed...@stritch.edu >> >> ** ** >> >> *From:* Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and >> Access [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] *On Behalf Of *Gene Fieg >> *Sent:* Saturday, April 13, 2013 3:11 PM >> >> *To:* RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA >> *Subject:* Re: [RDA-L] Unnumbered page in a 504 note >> >> ** ** >> >> I don't see how LC PCC PS 1.71. applies to this. The one example given >> simply gives the pages. The past practice would indicate that those page >> numbers are actually printed in the item. If not, then the pages not >> numbered would be put in brackets, so that if p. 310 were not printed the >> note would read (pages [310]-325. >> >> If both 310 and 325 were not printed, it would be (pages [310]-[325] >> (meaning that pages 311-324 are printed >> >> If none of the pages numbers are printed, but only implied, the extent of >> the bibliography would be (p. [310-325] >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ** ** >> >> On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 12:56 PM, Gene Fieg wrote: >> >> Just a note here: 504 is not a quoted note, but one that is constructed: >> Includes bibliographical references () >> >> ** ** >> >> On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 12:54 PM, Dana Van Meter >> wrote: >> >> Thanks everyone. I did see rule 1.7.1 at some point in my RDA travels, >> and then forgot about it. I agree that it probably should apply in the >> case of the 504. I hate that cataloging in RDA feels like assembling a >> puzzle every single time. I wish that one didn’t have to jump to all over >> the place to find out how one thing should be done. >> >> >> >> Thanks again. >> >> >> >> -Dana >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and >> Access [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] *On Behalf Of *Cronquist, >> Michelle J >> *Sent:* Friday, April 12, 2013 3:21 PM >> *To:* RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA >> *Subject:* Re: [RDA-L] Unnumbered page in a 504 note >> >> >> >> You’d omit the brackets, according to LC-PSS 1.7.1, which says “Do not >> use square brackets in notes except when they are used in quoted data,” and >> gives this example: >> >> >> >> 500 <http://desktop.loc.gov/saved/Mabibl_500> ## >> >> $a"Types of prayer wheels found in south central Tibet, by Mei Lin": >> pages 310-375. >> >> Not "... pages [310]-[375]." >> >> >> >> --- >> >> Michelle Cronquist >> >> North Caroliniana Cataloger >> >> Special Collections Technical Services >> >> CB#3926, Wilson Library >> >> University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill >> >> >> >> 919-962-6901 >> >> 919-962-3594 (fax) >> >> >> >> *From:* Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and >> Access [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] >> *On Behalf Of *Dana Van Meter >> *Sent:* Friday, April 12, 2013 2:57 PM >> *To:* RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA >> *Subject:* [RDA-L] Unnumbered page in a 504 note >> >> >> >> Hello. I’ve rooted around RDA several times trying to find an answer to >> this question and I can’t find one anywhere. Is there any direction >> anywhere in RDA or in the policy sta
Re: [RDA-L] Unnumbered page in a 504 note
Just a question: how are unprinted page numbers a "quoted note"? On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 1:54 PM, Schroeder, Elizabeth E. < eeschroed...@stritch.edu> wrote: > LC PCC PS 1.7.1 is a guideline for all notes, including a 504. As you > say, 504 does not contain quoted data. Since the instruction for square > brackets says they are to be used only in the case of quoted data, they > should not be used for the case of unprinted page numbers. This is a > departure from past practice. > > ** ** > > Hope this helps, > > Lizzy > > ** ** > > *Elizabeth Schroeder* > > Cataloging/Metadata Librarian > > ** ** > > *Cardinal Stritch University Library* > > *Phone: *414-410-4258 > > *E-mail:* eeschroed...@stritch.edu > > ** ** > > *From:* Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access > [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] *On Behalf Of *Gene Fieg > *Sent:* Saturday, April 13, 2013 3:11 PM > > *To:* RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA > *Subject:* Re: [RDA-L] Unnumbered page in a 504 note > > ** ** > > I don't see how LC PCC PS 1.71. applies to this. The one example given > simply gives the pages. The past practice would indicate that those page > numbers are actually printed in the item. If not, then the pages not > numbered would be put in brackets, so that if p. 310 were not printed the > note would read (pages [310]-325. > > If both 310 and 325 were not printed, it would be (pages [310]-[325] > (meaning that pages 311-324 are printed > > If none of the pages numbers are printed, but only implied, the extent of > the bibliography would be (p. [310-325] > > > > > > > > ** ** > > On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 12:56 PM, Gene Fieg wrote: > > Just a note here: 504 is not a quoted note, but one that is constructed: > Includes bibliographical references () > > ** ** > > On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 12:54 PM, Dana Van Meter wrote: > > > Thanks everyone. I did see rule 1.7.1 at some point in my RDA travels, > and then forgot about it. I agree that it probably should apply in the > case of the 504. I hate that cataloging in RDA feels like assembling a > puzzle every single time. I wish that one didn’t have to jump to all over > the place to find out how one thing should be done. > > > > Thanks again. > > > > -Dana > > **** > > **** > > *From:* Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access > [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] *On Behalf Of *Cronquist, Michelle J > *Sent:* Friday, April 12, 2013 3:21 PM > *To:* RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA > *Subject:* Re: [RDA-L] Unnumbered page in a 504 note > > > > You’d omit the brackets, according to LC-PSS 1.7.1, which says “Do not use > square brackets in notes except when they are used in quoted data,” and > gives this example: > > > > 500 <http://desktop.loc.gov/saved/Mabibl_500> ## > > $a"Types of prayer wheels found in south central Tibet, by Mei Lin": pages > 310-375. > > Not "... pages [310]-[375]." > > > > --- > > Michelle Cronquist > > North Caroliniana Cataloger > > Special Collections Technical Services > > CB#3926, Wilson Library**** > > University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill > > > > 919-962-6901 > > 919-962-3594 (fax) > > > > *From:* Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access > [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA ] *On > Behalf Of *Dana Van Meter > *Sent:* Friday, April 12, 2013 2:57 PM > *To:* RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA > *Subject:* [RDA-L] Unnumbered page in a 504 note > > > > Hello. I’ve rooted around RDA several times trying to find an answer to > this question and I can’t find one anywhere. Is there any direction > anywhere in RDA or in the policy statements that tell you what to do when > you are noting that bibliographical references are present and are noting > the page numbers the references fall on, and where either the starting or > ending (though usually the starting) page is not numbered in the book > itself. In AACR2 we would put the correct page number inside square > brackets. In most of the cases of this situation I’ve seen in the RDA > copy that’s out there, I see people just citing the page number without the > square brackets. I’ve only seen someone use square brackets once or > twice. The AACR2 in me hates to put the page number without the square > bracket when the page is not numbered in the book itself, which is
Re: [RDA-L] Unnumbered page in a 504 note
LC PCC PS 1.7.1 is a guideline for all notes, including a 504. As you say, 504 does not contain quoted data. Since the instruction for square brackets says they are to be used only in the case of quoted data, they should not be used for the case of unprinted page numbers. This is a departure from past practice. Hope this helps, Lizzy Elizabeth Schroeder Cataloging/Metadata Librarian Cardinal Stritch University Library Phone: 414-410-4258 E-mail: eeschroed...@stritch.edu<mailto:eeschroed...@stritch.edu> From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Gene Fieg Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2013 3:11 PM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Unnumbered page in a 504 note I don't see how LC PCC PS 1.71. applies to this. The one example given simply gives the pages. The past practice would indicate that those page numbers are actually printed in the item. If not, then the pages not numbered would be put in brackets, so that if p. 310 were not printed the note would read (pages [310]-325. If both 310 and 325 were not printed, it would be (pages [310]-[325] (meaning that pages 311-324 are printed If none of the pages numbers are printed, but only implied, the extent of the bibliography would be (p. [310-325] On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 12:56 PM, Gene Fieg mailto:gf...@cst.edu>> wrote: Just a note here: 504 is not a quoted note, but one that is constructed: Includes bibliographical references () On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 12:54 PM, Dana Van Meter mailto:vanme...@ias.edu>> wrote: Thanks everyone. I did see rule 1.7.1 at some point in my RDA travels, and then forgot about it. I agree that it probably should apply in the case of the 504. I hate that cataloging in RDA feels like assembling a puzzle every single time. I wish that one didn't have to jump to all over the place to find out how one thing should be done. Thanks again. -Dana From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA<mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA>] On Behalf Of Cronquist, Michelle J Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 3:21 PM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA<mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA> Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Unnumbered page in a 504 note You'd omit the brackets, according to LC-PSS 1.7.1, which says "Do not use square brackets in notes except when they are used in quoted data," and gives this example: 500<http://desktop.loc.gov/saved/Mabibl_500> ## $a"Types of prayer wheels found in south central Tibet, by Mei Lin": pages 310-375. Not "... pages [310]-[375]." --- Michelle Cronquist North Caroliniana Cataloger Special Collections Technical Services CB#3926, Wilson Library University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill 919-962-6901 919-962-3594 (fax) From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Dana Van Meter Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 2:57 PM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA<mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA> Subject: [RDA-L] Unnumbered page in a 504 note Hello. I've rooted around RDA several times trying to find an answer to this question and I can't find one anywhere. Is there any direction anywhere in RDA or in the policy statements that tell you what to do when you are noting that bibliographical references are present and are noting the page numbers the references fall on, and where either the starting or ending (though usually the starting) page is not numbered in the book itself. In AACR2 we would put the correct page number inside square brackets. In most of the cases of this situation I've seen in the RDA copy that's out there, I see people just citing the page number without the square brackets. I've only seen someone use square brackets once or twice. The AACR2 in me hates to put the page number without the square bracket when the page is not numbered in the book itself, which is generally the case with most of the books I catalog, as the heading Bibliography (or Bibliographical References, or whatever the case may be) usually appears a bit lower down on the page, and thus the page number is usually skipped on the starting page for the bibliographical references. I've looked at rule 7.16.1.3 and the LC-PCC PS for 7.16.1.3 and neither mentions what to do in a bibliographical references note when the starting (or ending) page is not numbered in the book itself. Is this mentioned anywhere in RDA, or in an LC-PCC PS? If it's not, can someone from LC monitoring this list please add this to the LC-PCC PS for 7.16.1.3 so I don't have to hem and haw every time I encounter this situation? Thanks very much for your help, Dana Van Meter Cataloging Librarian Historical Studies-Social Science Library Institute for Adva
Re: [RDA-L] Unnumbered page in a 504 note
I don't see how LC PCC PS 1.71. applies to this. The one example given simply gives the pages. The past practice would indicate that those page numbers are actually printed in the item. If not, then the pages not numbered would be put in brackets, so that if p. 310 were not printed the note would read (pages [310]-325. If both 310 and 325 were not printed, it would be (pages [310]-[325] (meaning that pages 311-324 are printed If none of the pages numbers are printed, but only implied, the extent of the bibliography would be (p. [310-325] On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 12:56 PM, Gene Fieg wrote: > Just a note here: 504 is not a quoted note, but one that is constructed: > Includes bibliographical references () > > > On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 12:54 PM, Dana Van Meter wrote: > >> Thanks everyone. I did see rule 1.7.1 at some point in my RDA travels, >> and then forgot about it. I agree that it probably should apply in the >> case of the 504. I hate that cataloging in RDA feels like assembling a >> puzzle every single time. I wish that one didn’t have to jump to all over >> the place to find out how one thing should be done. >> >> ** ** >> >> Thanks again. >> >> ** ** >> >> -Dana >> >> ** ** >> >> ** ** >> >> *From:* Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and >> Access [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] *On Behalf Of *Cronquist, >> Michelle J >> *Sent:* Friday, April 12, 2013 3:21 PM >> *To:* RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA >> *Subject:* Re: [RDA-L] Unnumbered page in a 504 note >> >> ** ** >> >> You’d omit the brackets, according to LC-PSS 1.7.1, which says “Do not >> use square brackets in notes except when they are used in quoted data,” and >> gives this example: >> >> ** ** >> >> 500 <http://desktop.loc.gov/saved/Mabibl_500> ## >> >> $a"Types of prayer wheels found in south central Tibet, by Mei Lin": >> pages 310-375. >> >> Not "... pages [310]-[375]." >> >> ** ** >> >> --- >> >> Michelle Cronquist >> >> North Caroliniana Cataloger >> >> Special Collections Technical Services >> >> CB#3926, Wilson Library >> >> University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill >> >> ** ** >> >> 919-962-6901 >> >> 919-962-3594 (fax) >> >> ** ** >> >> *From:* Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and >> Access [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] >> *On Behalf Of *Dana Van Meter >> *Sent:* Friday, April 12, 2013 2:57 PM >> *To:* RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA >> *Subject:* [RDA-L] Unnumbered page in a 504 note >> >> ** ** >> >> Hello. I’ve rooted around RDA several times trying to find an answer to >> this question and I can’t find one anywhere. Is there any direction >> anywhere in RDA or in the policy statements that tell you what to do when >> you are noting that bibliographical references are present and are noting >> the page numbers the references fall on, and where either the starting >> or ending (though usually the starting) page is not numbered in the book >> itself. In AACR2 we would put the correct page number inside square >> brackets. In most of the cases of this situation I’ve seen in the RDA >> copy that’s out there, I see people just citing the page number without the >> square brackets. I’ve only seen someone use square brackets once or >> twice. The AACR2 in me hates to put the page number without the square >> bracket when the page is not numbered in the book itself, which is >> generally the case with most of the books I catalog, as the heading >> Bibliography (or Bibliographical References, or whatever the case may be) >> usually >> appears a bit lower down on the page, and thus the page number is >> usually skipped on the starting page for the bibliographical references. >> I’ve looked at rule 7.16.1.3 and the LC-PCC PS for 7.16.1.3 and neither >> mentions what to do in a bibliographical references note when the starting >> (or ending) page is not numbered in the book itself. >> >> Is this mentioned anywhere in RDA, or in an LC-PCC PS? If it’s not, can >> someone from LC monitoring this list please add this to the LC-PCC PS for >> 7.16.1.3 so I don’t have to hem and haw every time I encounter this >> situation? >> >> Thanks very much for your help, >> >> Dana Van Meter >> >> Cataloging Librarian >> >> His
Re: [RDA-L] Unnumbered page in a 504 note
Just a note here: 504 is not a quoted note, but one that is constructed: Includes bibliographical references () On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 12:54 PM, Dana Van Meter wrote: > Thanks everyone. I did see rule 1.7.1 at some point in my RDA travels, > and then forgot about it. I agree that it probably should apply in the > case of the 504. I hate that cataloging in RDA feels like assembling a > puzzle every single time. I wish that one didn’t have to jump to all over > the place to find out how one thing should be done. > > ** ** > > Thanks again. > > ** ** > > -Dana > > ** ** > > ** ** > > *From:* Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access > [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] *On Behalf Of *Cronquist, Michelle J > *Sent:* Friday, April 12, 2013 3:21 PM > *To:* RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA > *Subject:* Re: [RDA-L] Unnumbered page in a 504 note > > ** ** > > You’d omit the brackets, according to LC-PSS 1.7.1, which says “Do not use > square brackets in notes except when they are used in quoted data,” and > gives this example: > > ** ** > > 500 <http://desktop.loc.gov/saved/Mabibl_500> ## > > $a"Types of prayer wheels found in south central Tibet, by Mei Lin": pages > 310-375. > > Not "... pages [310]-[375]." > > ** ** > > --- > > Michelle Cronquist > > North Caroliniana Cataloger > > Special Collections Technical Services > > CB#3926, Wilson Library > > University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill > > ** ** > > 919-962-6901 > > 919-962-3594 (fax) > > ** ** > > *From:* Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access > [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA ] *On > Behalf Of *Dana Van Meter > *Sent:* Friday, April 12, 2013 2:57 PM > *To:* RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA > *Subject:* [RDA-L] Unnumbered page in a 504 note > > ** ** > > Hello. I’ve rooted around RDA several times trying to find an answer to > this question and I can’t find one anywhere. Is there any direction > anywhere in RDA or in the policy statements that tell you what to do when > you are noting that bibliographical references are present and are noting > the page numbers the references fall on, and where either the starting or > ending (though usually the starting) page is not numbered in the book > itself. In AACR2 we would put the correct page number inside square > brackets. In most of the cases of this situation I’ve seen in the RDA > copy that’s out there, I see people just citing the page number without the > square brackets. I’ve only seen someone use square brackets once or > twice. The AACR2 in me hates to put the page number without the square > bracket when the page is not numbered in the book itself, which is > generally the case with most of the books I catalog, as the heading > Bibliography (or Bibliographical References, or whatever the case may be) > usually > appears a bit lower down on the page, and thus the page number is usually > skipped on the starting page for the bibliographical references. I’ve > looked at rule 7.16.1.3 and the LC-PCC PS for 7.16.1.3 and neither mentions > what to do in a bibliographical references note when the starting (or > ending) page is not numbered in the book itself. > > Is this mentioned anywhere in RDA, or in an LC-PCC PS? If it’s not, can > someone from LC monitoring this list please add this to the LC-PCC PS for > 7.16.1.3 so I don’t have to hem and haw every time I encounter this > situation? > > Thanks very much for your help, > > Dana Van Meter > > Cataloging Librarian > > Historical Studies-Social Science Library > > Institute for Advanced Study > > Princeton, NJ 08540 > > vanme...@ias.edu > -- Gene Fieg Cataloger/Serials Librarian Claremont School of Theology gf...@cst.edu Claremont School of Theology and Claremont Lincoln University do not represent or endorse the accuracy or reliability of any of the information or content contained in this forwarded email. The forwarded email is that of the original sender and does not represent the views of Claremont School of Theology or Claremont Lincoln University. It has been forwarded as a courtesy for information only.
Re: [RDA-L] Unnumbered page in a 504 note
Thanks everyone. I did see rule 1.7.1 at some point in my RDA travels, and then forgot about it. I agree that it probably should apply in the case of the 504. I hate that cataloging in RDA feels like assembling a puzzle every single time. I wish that one didn't have to jump to all over the place to find out how one thing should be done. Thanks again. -Dana From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Cronquist, Michelle J Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 3:21 PM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Unnumbered page in a 504 note You'd omit the brackets, according to LC-PSS 1.7.1, which says "Do not use square brackets in notes except when they are used in quoted data," and gives this example: 500 <http://desktop.loc.gov/saved/Mabibl_500> ## $a"Types of prayer wheels found in south central Tibet, by Mei Lin": pages 310-375. Not "... pages [310]-[375]." --- Michelle Cronquist North Caroliniana Cataloger Special Collections Technical Services CB#3926, Wilson Library University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill 919-962-6901 919-962-3594 (fax) From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Dana Van Meter Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 2:57 PM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: [RDA-L] Unnumbered page in a 504 note Hello. I've rooted around RDA several times trying to find an answer to this question and I can't find one anywhere. Is there any direction anywhere in RDA or in the policy statements that tell you what to do when you are noting that bibliographical references are present and are noting the page numbers the references fall on, and where either the starting or ending (though usually the starting) page is not numbered in the book itself. In AACR2 we would put the correct page number inside square brackets. In most of the cases of this situation I've seen in the RDA copy that's out there, I see people just citing the page number without the square brackets. I've only seen someone use square brackets once or twice. The AACR2 in me hates to put the page number without the square bracket when the page is not numbered in the book itself, which is generally the case with most of the books I catalog, as the heading Bibliography (or Bibliographical References, or whatever the case may be) usually appears a bit lower down on the page, and thus the page number is usually skipped on the starting page for the bibliographical references. I've looked at rule 7.16.1.3 and the LC-PCC PS for 7.16.1.3 and neither mentions what to do in a bibliographical references note when the starting (or ending) page is not numbered in the book itself. Is this mentioned anywhere in RDA, or in an LC-PCC PS? If it's not, can someone from LC monitoring this list please add this to the LC-PCC PS for 7.16.1.3 so I don't have to hem and haw every time I encounter this situation? Thanks very much for your help, Dana Van Meter Cataloging Librarian Historical Studies-Social Science Library Institute for Advanced Study Princeton, NJ 08540 vanme...@ias.edu
Re: [RDA-L] Unnumbered page in a 504 note
Try looking at LC-PCC PS 1.7.1, the section called Punctuation in Notes: "3. Square brackets. Do not use square brackets in notes except when they are used in quoted data." The examples demonstrate use of unbracketed numbers that do not appear in the resource. Hope this helps, Lizzy Elizabeth Schroeder Cataloging/Metadata Librarian Cardinal Stritch University Library Phone: 414-410-4258 E-mail: eeschroed...@stritch.edu<mailto:eeschroed...@stritch.edu> From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Dana Van Meter Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 1:57 PM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: [RDA-L] Unnumbered page in a 504 note Hello. I've rooted around RDA several times trying to find an answer to this question and I can't find one anywhere. Is there any direction anywhere in RDA or in the policy statements that tell you what to do when you are noting that bibliographical references are present and are noting the page numbers the references fall on, and where either the starting or ending (though usually the starting) page is not numbered in the book itself. In AACR2 we would put the correct page number inside square brackets. In most of the cases of this situation I've seen in the RDA copy that's out there, I see people just citing the page number without the square brackets. I've only seen someone use square brackets once or twice. The AACR2 in me hates to put the page number without the square bracket when the page is not numbered in the book itself, which is generally the case with most of the books I catalog, as the heading Bibliography (or Bibliographical References, or whatever the case may be) usually appears a bit lower down on the page, and thus the page number is usually skipped on the starting page for the bibliographical references. I've looked at rule 7.16.1.3 and the LC-PCC PS for 7.16.1.3 and neither mentions what to do in a bibliographical references note when the starting (or ending) page is not numbered in the book itself. Is this mentioned anywhere in RDA, or in an LC-PCC PS? If it's not, can someone from LC monitoring this list please add this to the LC-PCC PS for 7.16.1.3 so I don't have to hem and haw every time I encounter this situation? Thanks very much for your help, Dana Van Meter Cataloging Librarian Historical Studies-Social Science Library Institute for Advanced Study Princeton, NJ 08540 vanme...@ias.edu<mailto:vanme...@ias.edu>
Re: [RDA-L] Unnumbered page in a 504 note
You'd omit the brackets, according to LC-PSS 1.7.1, which says "Do not use square brackets in notes except when they are used in quoted data," and gives this example: 500<http://desktop.loc.gov/saved/Mabibl_500> ## $a"Types of prayer wheels found in south central Tibet, by Mei Lin": pages 310-375. Not "... pages [310]-[375]." --- Michelle Cronquist North Caroliniana Cataloger Special Collections Technical Services CB#3926, Wilson Library University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill 919-962-6901 919-962-3594 (fax) From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Dana Van Meter Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 2:57 PM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: [RDA-L] Unnumbered page in a 504 note Hello. I've rooted around RDA several times trying to find an answer to this question and I can't find one anywhere. Is there any direction anywhere in RDA or in the policy statements that tell you what to do when you are noting that bibliographical references are present and are noting the page numbers the references fall on, and where either the starting or ending (though usually the starting) page is not numbered in the book itself. In AACR2 we would put the correct page number inside square brackets. In most of the cases of this situation I've seen in the RDA copy that's out there, I see people just citing the page number without the square brackets. I've only seen someone use square brackets once or twice. The AACR2 in me hates to put the page number without the square bracket when the page is not numbered in the book itself, which is generally the case with most of the books I catalog, as the heading Bibliography (or Bibliographical References, or whatever the case may be) usually appears a bit lower down on the page, and thus the page number is usually skipped on the starting page for the bibliographical references. I've looked at rule 7.16.1.3 and the LC-PCC PS for 7.16.1.3 and neither mentions what to do in a bibliographical references note when the starting (or ending) page is not numbered in the book itself. Is this mentioned anywhere in RDA, or in an LC-PCC PS? If it's not, can someone from LC monitoring this list please add this to the LC-PCC PS for 7.16.1.3 so I don't have to hem and haw every time I encounter this situation? Thanks very much for your help, Dana Van Meter Cataloging Librarian Historical Studies-Social Science Library Institute for Advanced Study Princeton, NJ 08540 vanme...@ias.edu<mailto:vanme...@ias.edu>
Re: [RDA-L] Unnumbered page in a 504 note
My understanding is 504 fields are a recorded element. The data does not have to exactly represent the resource itself. Thanks, Joan Wang Illinois Heartland Library System On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 1:57 PM, Dana Van Meter wrote: > ** > > Hello. I’ve rooted around RDA several times trying to find an answer to > this question and I can’t find one anywhere. Is there any direction > anywhere in RDA or in the policy statements that tell you what to do when > you are noting that bibliographical references are present and are noting > the page numbers the references fall on, and where either the starting or > ending (though usually the starting) page is not numbered in the book > itself. In AACR2 we would put the correct page number inside square > brackets. In most of the cases of this situation I’ve seen in the RDA > copy that’s out there, I see people just citing the page number without > the square brackets. I’ve only seen someone use square brackets once or > twice. The AACR2 in me hates to put the page number without the square > bracket when the page is not numbered in the book itself, which isgenerally > the case with most of the books I catalog, as the heading > Bibliography (or Bibliographical References, or whatever the case may be) > usually > appears a bit lower down on the page, and thus the page number is usually > skipped on the starting page for the bibliographical references. I’ve > looked at rule 7.16.1.3 and the LC-PCC PS for 7.16.1.3 and neither > mentions what to do in a bibliographical references note when the starting > (or ending) page is not numbered in the book itself. > > Is this mentioned anywhere in RDA, or in an LC-PCC PS? If it’s not, can > someone from LC monitoring this list please add this to the LC-PCC PS for > 7.16.1.3 so I don’t have to hem and haw every time I encounter this > situation? > > Thanks very much for your help, > > Dana Van Meter > > Cataloging Librarian > > Historical Studies-Social Science Library > > Institute for Advanced Study > > Princeton, NJ 08540 > > vanme...@ias.edu > -- Zhonghong (Joan) Wang, Ph.D. Cataloger -- CMC Illinois Heartland Library System (Edwardsville Office) 6725 Goshen Road Edwardsville, IL 62025 618.656.3216x409 618.656.9401Fax
Re: [RDA-L] Unnumbered page in a 504 note
I don't use square brackets unless the numbers are only implied. If they are stated I put them in parentheses. However, if they are truly footnotes, I do not add page numbers. On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 11:57 AM, Dana Van Meter wrote: > ** > > Hello. I’ve rooted around RDA several times trying to find an answer to > this question and I can’t find one anywhere. Is there any direction > anywhere in RDA or in the policy statements that tell you what to do when > you are noting that bibliographical references are present and are noting > the page numbers the references fall on, and where either the starting or > ending (though usually the starting) page is not numbered in the book > itself. In AACR2 we would put the correct page number inside square > brackets. In most of the cases of this situation I’ve seen in the RDA > copy that’s out there, I see people just citing the page number without > the square brackets. I’ve only seen someone use square brackets once or > twice. The AACR2 in me hates to put the page number without the square > bracket when the page is not numbered in the book itself, which isgenerally > the case with most of the books I catalog, as the heading > Bibliography (or Bibliographical References, or whatever the case may be) > usually > appears a bit lower down on the page, and thus the page number is usually > skipped on the starting page for the bibliographical references. I’ve > looked at rule 7.16.1.3 and the LC-PCC PS for 7.16.1.3 and neither > mentions what to do in a bibliographical references note when the starting > (or ending) page is not numbered in the book itself. > > Is this mentioned anywhere in RDA, or in an LC-PCC PS? If it’s not, can > someone from LC monitoring this list please add this to the LC-PCC PS for > 7.16.1.3 so I don’t have to hem and haw every time I encounter this > situation? > > Thanks very much for your help, > > Dana Van Meter > > Cataloging Librarian > > Historical Studies-Social Science Library > > Institute for Advanced Study > > Princeton, NJ 08540 > > vanme...@ias.edu > -- Gene Fieg Cataloger/Serials Librarian Claremont School of Theology gf...@cst.edu Claremont School of Theology and Claremont Lincoln University do not represent or endorse the accuracy or reliability of any of the information or content contained in this forwarded email. The forwarded email is that of the original sender and does not represent the views of Claremont School of Theology or Claremont Lincoln University. It has been forwarded as a courtesy for information only.
[RDA-L] Unnumbered page in a 504 note
Hello. I've rooted around RDA several times trying to find an answer to this question and I can't find one anywhere. Is there any direction anywhere in RDA or in the policy statements that tell you what to do when you are noting that bibliographical references are present and are noting the page numbers the references fall on, and where either the starting or ending (though usually the starting) page is not numbered in the book itself. In AACR2 we would put the correct page number inside square brackets. In most of the cases of this situation I've seen in the RDA copy that's out there, I see people just citing the page number without the square brackets. I've only seen someone use square brackets once or twice. The AACR2 in me hates to put the page number without the square bracket when the page is not numbered in the book itself, which is generally the case with most of the books I catalog, as the heading Bibliography (or Bibliographical References, or whatever the case may be) usually appears a bit lower down on the page, and thus the page number is usually skipped on the starting page for the bibliographical references. I've looked at rule 7.16.1.3 and the LC-PCC PS for 7.16.1.3 and neither mentions what to do in a bibliographical references note when the starting (or ending) page is not numbered in the book itself. Is this mentioned anywhere in RDA, or in an LC-PCC PS? If it's not, can someone from LC monitoring this list please add this to the LC-PCC PS for 7.16.1.3 so I don't have to hem and haw every time I encounter this situation? Thanks very much for your help, Dana Van Meter Cataloging Librarian Historical Studies-Social Science Library Institute for Advanced Study Princeton, NJ 08540 vanme...@ias.edu
