Re: [RDA-L] eBooks & Playaways

[Kelley McGrath]

On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 4:24 PM, Robert Maxwell  wrote:
> Yes, I might have a different opinion if you could move information on and 
> off a Playaway. But they exist as a dedicated player for a single book. No 
> mediation is required to use one. I don't see why it would make a difference 
> that it is digital. Do you agree that a windup music box would be unmediated?

**
I'd agree that a music box is an unmediated object.

Part of the problem is that RDA doesn't completely get away from mixing up 
content and carrier with its categories like "audio carrier." It almost seems 
to me that they would have been better off with more form-based categories like 
"magnetic tape" or "projected rolls" or "optical disc" and then talk about any 
audio or visual aspects of the carrier separately.

Definitions:

Media type is a categorization reflecting the general type of intermediation 
device required to view, play, run, etc., the content of a resource.

audio: Media used to store recorded sound, designed for use with a playback 
device such as a turntable, audiocassette player, CD player, or MP3 player. 
Includes media used to store digitally encoded as well as analog sound.

unmediated: Media used to store content designed to be perceived directly 
through one or more of the human senses without the aid of an intermediating 
device. Includes media containing visual and/or tactile content produced using 
processes such as printing, engraving, lithography, etc., embossing, texturing, 
etc., or by means of handwriting, drawing, painting, etc. Also includes media 
used to convey three-dimensional forms such as sculptures, models, etc. 

If you think about the spectrum of things that make noise:

You can bang on most physical objects and make a sound; that doesn't really 
affect the media/carrier type decision

Where I used to work, they had musical instruments in their collection: drums, 
flute, even a didgeridoo. These would seem to be unmediated objects since it's 
the user making the audio rather than recorded sound.

Some objects make noise, such as toys like a fire truck with a siren or talking 
dolls. These may be recorded sounds, but they usually aren't interacted with 
primarily as audio carriers so they still seem like unmediated objects

Music boxes, according to Wikipedia, use clockwork to power an "automatic 
musical instrument that produces sounds by the use of a set of pins placed on a 
revolving cylinder or disc so as to pluck the tuned teeth (or lamellae) of a 
steel comb." So I think this still isn't recorded sound and thus falls into the 
unmediated object category. Plus they may be of interest visually or from a 
tactile aspect as well as aurally.

I have some friends who have a self-playing piano that plays from sheets of 
perforated paper that were created based on performances by famous pianists. 
That does seem like a recording even though the music is created afresh every 
time. However, since you'd probably catalog the rolls separately, probably they 
would have an audio carrier and the piano would just be an unmediated object.

Playaways are recorded sound. That recorded sound can't be perceived directly 
in the way that notes from a music box can. Inside the Playaway is some kind of 
memory card with the recorded sound and some intervening technology that 
changes those bits and bytes into something that human ears can hear.

Imagine a library circulates MP3 players that they've preloaded with 
audiobooks. I don't know of any libraries that do this, but it's analogous to 
what some do with ebook readers. Why is this so different from a Playaway? It's 
the same experience from the patrons point of view; it's just that the library 
has loaded the content instead of the publisher. And RDA explicitly says that 
MP3 players are audio carriers.

Then, of course, you have your traditional audio carriers: records, cassettes, 
CDs

RDA considers music downloaded from online another matter entirely with a 
computer media type and an online resource carrier type. Music files can also 
be stored on computer discs.

A strict reading of the definitions with their emphasis on a separate 
intermediating device does seem to leave you stuck with unmediated object for 
Playaway. But I wonder if that is really the intention of RDA or if the 
definitions were just constructed with a lack of foresight for objects where 
the content and the intermediation device are one and the same.

I think of intermediation as the technology between the content and the user. 
It seems to me that you can perceive the audio content of a music box directly 
in a way that you can't with a Playaway without some intervening technology, 
even if that technology is embedded in the carrier.

It also seems to me that the sound characteristics at 3.16 (type of recording, 
recording medium, configuration of playback channels) are relevant to Playaways 
in a way that they aren't for music boxes. To me, this aligns Playaways more 
closely wi

Re: [RDA-L] eBooks & Playaways

[Goldfarb, Kathie]

I was going to suggest that is it unmediated, like a book.  However,
this email refers to "You don't need anything other than the object
itself"  While the playaway device is considered the device the material
is recorded on, does it automatically include the headphones?  Would a
library require that the patron have them?  Would the library check
those out, also?  

 

And, what is being cataloged?  The book title does require the
equipment, though the equipment (other than stated above) does not
require additional equipment.

 

Just a thought.  I do not anticipate our library using them, and would
like to think the data is unmediated, but not sure.

 

kathie

 

Kathleen Goldfarb

Technical Services Librarian

College of the Mainland

Texas City, TX 77539

409 933 8202

 

P Please consider whether it is necessary to print this email.

 

 

From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of M. E.
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 4:27 PM
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] eBooks & Playaways

 

Robert Maxwell  wrote:

In my opinion a Playaway is unmediated. You don't need anything other
than the object itself (and a source of electricity) to get the
information, in contrast to, say, a CD, which you need to put in a
machine in order to use.

 

 

Good point.  I had my media type flipped on its head--thinking of the
audio file in the Playaway rather than the Playaway itself.

 

--

Mark K. Ehlert

Minitex

<http://www.minitex.umn.edu/>

Re: [RDA-L] eBooks & Playaways

[J. McRee Elrod]

Sara said:

>Maybe we need a new media type (or would it be an unmediated carrier
>type??) that is something like "interactive"?? ...

I agree we need an additional term.  "Other" is very uninformative.
The MRIs have one: "equipment".

Even for a print book, one (or some of us) must put on our bifocals,
and open the book, both of which are actions on our part.

Unless you are willing to use the MRI "equipment", for now the MP3
should be "performed music" or "spoken word", "unmediated", and
"object".  

"Object" is almost as uninformative as "other"; fine for a rock, but
for an electronic reader?


   __   __   J. McRee (Mac) Elrod (m...@slc.bc.ca)
  {__  |   / Special Libraries Cataloguing   HTTP://www.slc.bc.ca/
  ___} |__ \__

Re: [RDA-L] eBooks & Playaways

[Robert Maxwell]

Yes, I might have a different opinion if you could move information on and off 
a Playaway. But they exist as a dedicated player for a single book. No 
mediation is required to use one. I don't see why it would make a difference 
that it is digital. Do you agree that a windup music box would be unmediated?

Bob

Robert L. Maxwell
Head, Special Collections and Formats Catalog Dept.
6728 Harold B. Lee Library
Brigham Young University
Provo, UT 84602
(801)422-5568 

"We should set an example for all the world, rather than confine ourselves to 
the course which has been heretofore pursued"--Eliza R. Snow, 1842.

-Original Message-
From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access 
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Kelley McGrath
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 12:48 PM
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] eBooks & Playaways

I guess I'm not sure that a Playaway is unmediated. It's just that the 
mediation is transparent to the end user. The user doesn't have to put a disc 
in; they just put in batteries and push play. Mediation for digital content is 
likely to become increasingly transparent. In a sense everything tangible that 
we catalog is an object, but a Playaway is presumably wanted not as something 
to be looked at or touched, but as an integrated audio carrier.

If you could move content on and off the Playaway, would that change your 
opinion? If a library circulates audiobooks on ipods or ebooks on a Kindle, 
should those records also be for objects? This actually seems to be an 
unsettled area.

Kelley

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Robert Maxwell  wrote:
> In my opinion a Playaway is unmediated. You don't need anything other 
> than the object itself (and a source of electricity) to get the 
> information, in contrast to, say, a CD, which you need to put in a machine in 
> order to use.
> Media type is "a categorization reflecting the general type of 
> intermediation device required to view, play, run, etc., the content 
> of a resource." No intermediation device is needed to hear/play the 
> content of a Playaway.
>
> I find it analogous to a music box, which would also be unmediated.
>
> There is not a good unmediated carrier type (yet) for a Playaway. But 
> as noted below, there isn't a good carrier type under the other 
> categories either.

Re: [RDA-L] eBooks & Playaways

[Pam Withrow]

If we back up to 3.2.1.1. in the toolkit we find:

Scope
Media 
type▼
is
a categorization reflecting the general type of intermediation device
required to view, play, run, etc., the content of a resource.

Because the Playaway does not require an "intermediation device", I think
one has to conclude that it is an "unmediated" "object."

Awkward? Yes. Misleading to patrons? Maybe. Correct per the premiere
resource of RDA standards? I think so...for now.

--Pam

On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 2:46 PM, Joan Wang wrote:

> Sorry. should be a playing medium.
>
> On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 2:41 PM, Joan Wang wrote:
>
>> Is Playaway a storage medium (carrier) as well as a player medium?
>> Probably a stupid question :)
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Joan Wang
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 1:48 PM, Kelley McGrath wrote:
>>
>>> I guess I'm not sure that a Playaway is unmediated. It's just that the
>>> mediation is transparent to the end user. The user doesn't have to put a
>>> disc in; they just put in batteries and push play. Mediation for digital
>>> content is likely to become increasingly transparent. In a sense everything
>>> tangible that we catalog is an object, but a Playaway is presumably wanted
>>> not as something to be looked at or touched, but as an integrated audio
>>> carrier.
>>>
>>> If you could move content on and off the Playaway, would that change
>>> your opinion? If a library circulates audiobooks on ipods or ebooks on a
>>> Kindle, should those records also be for objects? This actually seems to be
>>> an unsettled area.
>>>
>>> Kelley
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Robert Maxwell 
>>> wrote:
>>> > In my opinion a Playaway is unmediated. You don't need anything other
>>> > than the object itself (and a source of electricity) to get the
>>> > information, in contrast to, say, a CD, which you need to put in a
>>> machine in order to use.
>>> > Media type is "a categorization reflecting the general type of
>>> > intermediation device required to view, play, run, etc., the content
>>> > of a resource." No intermediation device is needed to hear/play the
>>> > content of a Playaway.
>>> >
>>> > I find it analogous to a music box, which would also be unmediated.
>>> >
>>> > There is not a good unmediated carrier type (yet) for a Playaway. But
>>> > as noted below, there isn't a good carrier type under the other
>>> > categories either.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Zhonghong (Joan) Wang, Ph.D.
>> Cataloger -- CMC
>> Illinois Heartland Library System (Edwardsville Office)
>> 6725 Goshen Road
>> Edwardsville, IL 62025
>> 618.656.3216x409
>> 618.656.9401Fax
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Zhonghong (Joan) Wang, Ph.D.
> Cataloger -- CMC
> Illinois Heartland Library System (Edwardsville Office)
> 6725 Goshen Road
> Edwardsville, IL 62025
> 618.656.3216x409
> 618.656.9401Fax
>



-- 
*Pamela Withrow, MLIS*
Cataloger
Perma-Bound
217-291-1144

Re: [RDA-L] eBooks & Playaways

[Joan Wang]

Sorry. should be a playing medium.

On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 2:41 PM, Joan Wang wrote:

> Is Playaway a storage medium (carrier) as well as a player medium?
> Probably a stupid question :)
>
> Thanks,
> Joan Wang
>
> On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 1:48 PM, Kelley McGrath wrote:
>
>> I guess I'm not sure that a Playaway is unmediated. It's just that the
>> mediation is transparent to the end user. The user doesn't have to put a
>> disc in; they just put in batteries and push play. Mediation for digital
>> content is likely to become increasingly transparent. In a sense everything
>> tangible that we catalog is an object, but a Playaway is presumably wanted
>> not as something to be looked at or touched, but as an integrated audio
>> carrier.
>>
>> If you could move content on and off the Playaway, would that change your
>> opinion? If a library circulates audiobooks on ipods or ebooks on a Kindle,
>> should those records also be for objects? This actually seems to be an
>> unsettled area.
>>
>> Kelley
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Robert Maxwell 
>> wrote:
>> > In my opinion a Playaway is unmediated. You don't need anything other
>> > than the object itself (and a source of electricity) to get the
>> > information, in contrast to, say, a CD, which you need to put in a
>> machine in order to use.
>> > Media type is "a categorization reflecting the general type of
>> > intermediation device required to view, play, run, etc., the content
>> > of a resource." No intermediation device is needed to hear/play the
>> > content of a Playaway.
>> >
>> > I find it analogous to a music box, which would also be unmediated.
>> >
>> > There is not a good unmediated carrier type (yet) for a Playaway. But
>> > as noted below, there isn't a good carrier type under the other
>> > categories either.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Zhonghong (Joan) Wang, Ph.D.
> Cataloger -- CMC
> Illinois Heartland Library System (Edwardsville Office)
> 6725 Goshen Road
> Edwardsville, IL 62025
> 618.656.3216x409
> 618.656.9401Fax
>



-- 
Zhonghong (Joan) Wang, Ph.D.
Cataloger -- CMC
Illinois Heartland Library System (Edwardsville Office)
6725 Goshen Road
Edwardsville, IL 62025
618.656.3216x409
618.656.9401Fax

Re: [RDA-L] eBooks & Playaways

[Joan Wang]

Is Playaway a storage medium (carrier) as well as a player medium? Probably
a stupid question :)

Thanks,
Joan Wang

On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 1:48 PM, Kelley McGrath  wrote:

> I guess I'm not sure that a Playaway is unmediated. It's just that the
> mediation is transparent to the end user. The user doesn't have to put a
> disc in; they just put in batteries and push play. Mediation for digital
> content is likely to become increasingly transparent. In a sense everything
> tangible that we catalog is an object, but a Playaway is presumably wanted
> not as something to be looked at or touched, but as an integrated audio
> carrier.
>
> If you could move content on and off the Playaway, would that change your
> opinion? If a library circulates audiobooks on ipods or ebooks on a Kindle,
> should those records also be for objects? This actually seems to be an
> unsettled area.
>
> Kelley
>
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Robert Maxwell 
> wrote:
> > In my opinion a Playaway is unmediated. You don't need anything other
> > than the object itself (and a source of electricity) to get the
> > information, in contrast to, say, a CD, which you need to put in a
> machine in order to use.
> > Media type is "a categorization reflecting the general type of
> > intermediation device required to view, play, run, etc., the content
> > of a resource." No intermediation device is needed to hear/play the
> > content of a Playaway.
> >
> > I find it analogous to a music box, which would also be unmediated.
> >
> > There is not a good unmediated carrier type (yet) for a Playaway. But
> > as noted below, there isn't a good carrier type under the other
> > categories either.
>



-- 
Zhonghong (Joan) Wang, Ph.D.
Cataloger -- CMC
Illinois Heartland Library System (Edwardsville Office)
6725 Goshen Road
Edwardsville, IL 62025
618.656.3216x409
618.656.9401Fax

Re: [RDA-L] eBooks & Playaways

[Benjamin A Abrahamse]

FWIW I've been arguing there needs to be a *content* type for "interactive" for 
a long time.  Interactive media is only going to become more prevalent in 
libraries, not less. 

However I'm not sure "interactive" would be an appropriate carrier type--"A 
categorization reflecting the format of the storage medium and housing of a 
carrier in combination with the type of intermediation device required to view, 
play, run, etc., the content of a resource."

It's a good question, though.  Mutatis mutandis--is a television (if one were 
for some reason want to catalog it) "unmediated"?  After all, all you do is 
flip a switch and watch it...

--Ben

Benjamin Abrahamse
Cataloging Coordinator
Acquisitions, Metadata and Enterprise Systems
MIT Libraries
617-253-7137

-Original Message-
From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access 
[mailto:RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca] On Behalf Of Layne, Sara
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 2:58 PM
To: RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] eBooks & Playaways

Maybe we need a new media type (or would it be an unmediated carrier type??) 
that is something like "interactive"?? In all the examples so far (Playaway, 
music box, Kindle), the user needs to do something to make it work, even though 
the user does not need an *additional* device to gain access.

Just a thought.

Sara Shatford Layne
Principal Cataloger
UCLA Library Cataloging & Metadata Center

-Original Message-
From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access 
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Kelley McGrath
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 11:48 AM
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] eBooks & Playaways

I guess I'm not sure that a Playaway is unmediated. It's just that the 
mediation is transparent to the end user. The user doesn't have to put a disc 
in; they just put in batteries and push play. Mediation for digital content is 
likely to become increasingly transparent. In a sense everything tangible that 
we catalog is an object, but a Playaway is presumably wanted not as something 
to be looked at or touched, but as an integrated audio carrier.

If you could move content on and off the Playaway, would that change your 
opinion? If a library circulates audiobooks on ipods or ebooks on a Kindle, 
should those records also be for objects? This actually seems to be an 
unsettled area.

Kelley

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Robert Maxwell  wrote:
> In my opinion a Playaway is unmediated. You don't need anything other 
> than the object itself (and a source of electricity) to get the 
> information, in contrast to, say, a CD, which you need to put in a machine in 
> order to use.
> Media type is "a categorization reflecting the general type of 
> intermediation device required to view, play, run, etc., the content 
> of a resource." No intermediation device is needed to hear/play the 
> content of a Playaway.
>
> I find it analogous to a music box, which would also be unmediated.
>
> There is not a good unmediated carrier type (yet) for a Playaway. But 
> as noted below, there isn't a good carrier type under the other 
> categories either.

Re: [RDA-L] eBooks & Playaways

[Brenndorfer, Thomas]

The RDA Content Type "audio" does cover MP3 players as the intermediary device 
(RDA 3.2).

Which would result in:

Content type=audio
and
Carrier type=other

and which does correspond generally with current Playaway AACR2 record values:


GMD = [sound recording]
300$a = 1 sound media player

007/00=s - sound recording
007/00=z - other

But there is also a 006/00=m (computer file/electronic resource) and a 007/00=c 
(electronic resource), as well as a 008/23=q (direct electronic).

I'm wondering for the computer-like "other" carrier, there couldn't be a 
simplification based around the idea of the "file server".

For Carrier Type=online resource, according to the RDA/ONIX Framework 
(http://www.loc.gov/marc/marbi/2007/5chair10.pdf) the StorageMediumFormat value 
is "file server."

This makes sense when considering remote access or online resources, but a file 
server can also be accessed directly (similar to "direct electronic"). A 
portable media player is essentially a miniaturized and mass-produced "file 
server," but accessed in a "direct electronic" way.

So perhaps all one needs is a new value for StorageMediumFormat parallel to 
file server such as "digital media player". The word "player" denotes this will 
be a direct electronic device as opposed to a remote access file server.

So, following RDA/ONIX generally one could have:

StorageMediumFormat = digital media player

HousingFormat = not applicable

IntermediationTool = audio

producing a label for Carrier Type "audio media player" and Media Type = audio.


Switch to  IntermediationTool = video for Playaway Views and one gets Carrier 
Type = "video media player" and Media Type = video.

and

switch to IntermediationTool = computer for portable multimedia devices 
(perhaps for all-in-one tablets or ebook readers that can combine digitized 
text, audio and video) and one gets Carrier Type = "multimedia player" and 
Media Type = computer. In RDA, Media Type=computer can be used for online or 
direct electronic access.





Thomas Brenndorfer
Guelph Public Library
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access
> [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Kelley McGrath
> Sent: March-15-13 2:48 PM
> To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
> Subject: Re: [RDA-L] eBooks & Playaways
> 
> I guess I'm not sure that a Playaway is unmediated. It's just that the
> mediation is transparent to the end user. The user doesn't have to put a disc
> in; they just put in batteries and push play. Mediation for digital content is
> likely to become increasingly transparent. In a sense everything tangible that
> we catalog is an object, but a Playaway is presumably wanted not as
> something to be looked at or touched, but as an integrated audio carrier.
> 
> If you could move content on and off the Playaway, would that change your
> opinion? If a library circulates audiobooks on ipods or ebooks on a Kindle,
> should those records also be for objects? This actually seems to be an
> unsettled area.
> 
> Kelley
> 
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Robert Maxwell
>  wrote:
> > In my opinion a Playaway is unmediated. You don't need anything other
> > than the object itself (and a source of electricity) to get the
> > information, in contrast to, say, a CD, which you need to put in a machine 
> > in
> order to use.
> > Media type is "a categorization reflecting the general type of
> > intermediation device required to view, play, run, etc., the content
> > of a resource." No intermediation device is needed to hear/play the
> > content of a Playaway.
> >
> > I find it analogous to a music box, which would also be unmediated.
> >
> > There is not a good unmediated carrier type (yet) for a Playaway. But
> > as noted below, there isn't a good carrier type under the other
> > categories either.

Re: [RDA-L] eBooks & Playaways

[Layne, Sara]

Maybe we need a new media type (or would it be an unmediated carrier type??) 
that is something like "interactive"?? In all the examples so far (Playaway, 
music box, Kindle), the user needs to do something to make it work, even though 
the user does not need an *additional* device to gain access.

Just a thought.

Sara Shatford Layne
Principal Cataloger
UCLA Library Cataloging & Metadata Center

-Original Message-
From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access 
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Kelley McGrath
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 11:48 AM
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] eBooks & Playaways

I guess I'm not sure that a Playaway is unmediated. It's just that the 
mediation is transparent to the end user. The user doesn't have to put a disc 
in; they just put in batteries and push play. Mediation for digital content is 
likely to become increasingly transparent. In a sense everything tangible that 
we catalog is an object, but a Playaway is presumably wanted not as something 
to be looked at or touched, but as an integrated audio carrier.

If you could move content on and off the Playaway, would that change your 
opinion? If a library circulates audiobooks on ipods or ebooks on a Kindle, 
should those records also be for objects? This actually seems to be an 
unsettled area.

Kelley

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Robert Maxwell  wrote:
> In my opinion a Playaway is unmediated. You don't need anything other 
> than the object itself (and a source of electricity) to get the 
> information, in contrast to, say, a CD, which you need to put in a machine in 
> order to use.
> Media type is "a categorization reflecting the general type of 
> intermediation device required to view, play, run, etc., the content 
> of a resource." No intermediation device is needed to hear/play the 
> content of a Playaway.
>
> I find it analogous to a music box, which would also be unmediated.
>
> There is not a good unmediated carrier type (yet) for a Playaway. But 
> as noted below, there isn't a good carrier type under the other 
> categories either.

Re: [RDA-L] eBooks & Playaways

[Kelley McGrath]

I guess I'm not sure that a Playaway is unmediated. It's just that the 
mediation is transparent to the end user. The user doesn't have to put a disc 
in; they just put in batteries and push play. Mediation for digital content is 
likely to become increasingly transparent. In a sense everything tangible that 
we catalog is an object, but a Playaway is presumably wanted not as something 
to be looked at or touched, but as an integrated audio carrier.

If you could move content on and off the Playaway, would that change your 
opinion? If a library circulates audiobooks on ipods or ebooks on a Kindle, 
should those records also be for objects? This actually seems to be an 
unsettled area.

Kelley

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Robert Maxwell  wrote:
> In my opinion a Playaway is unmediated. You don't need anything other 
> than the object itself (and a source of electricity) to get the 
> information, in contrast to, say, a CD, which you need to put in a machine in 
> order to use.
> Media type is "a categorization reflecting the general type of 
> intermediation device required to view, play, run, etc., the content 
> of a resource." No intermediation device is needed to hear/play the 
> content of a Playaway.
>
> I find it analogous to a music box, which would also be unmediated.
>
> There is not a good unmediated carrier type (yet) for a Playaway. But 
> as noted below, there isn't a good carrier type under the other 
> categories either.

Re: [RDA-L] eBooks & Playaways

[Joan Wang]

Apparently it is not easy to make paragraphs and sentences consistent. I am
kidding.

Have fun :)

Joan Wang
Illinois Heartland Library System

On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 11:20 AM, Ian Fairclough  wrote:

> RDA-L readers,
>
> Thanks to Mark Ehlert for the correction to my earlier post.  Here are the
> instructions he refers to.  Curiously, 3.2.1.3 has a table, but 3.3.1.3
> does not.  6.9.1.3 has a table and also a link from the sentence to the
> head of the table.
>
> 3.2.1.3 Recording Media Type:
> If none of the terms listed in table 3.1 apply to the carrier of the
> resource being described, record other.
> If the media type or types applicable to the resource being described
> cannot be readily ascertained, record unspecified.
>
> 3.3.1.3 Recording Carrier Type:
> If none of the terms listed above apply to the carrier or carriers of the
> resource being described, record other.
> If the carrier type or types applicable to the resource being described
> cannot be readily ascertained, record unspecified.
>
> 6.9.1.3 Recording Content Type
> If none of the terms listed in table 
> 6.1apply
>  to the content of the resource being described, record
> other.
> If the content type applicable to the resource being described cannot be
> readily ascertained, record unspecified.
>
> - Ian
>
>



-- 
Zhonghong (Joan) Wang, Ph.D.
Cataloger -- CMC
Illinois Heartland Library System (Edwardsville Office)
6725 Goshen Road
Edwardsville, IL 62025
618.656.3216x409
618.656.9401Fax

[RDA-L] eBooks & Playaways

[Ian Fairclough]

RDA-L readers,

Thanks to Mark Ehlert for the correction to my earlier post.  Here are the 
instructions he refers to.  Curiously, 3.2.1.3 has a table, but 3.3.1.3 does 
not.  6.9.1.3 has a 
table and also a link from the sentence to the head of the table.

3.2.1.3 RecordingMedia Type:
If none of the terms listed in table 3.1 apply to the carrier of the resource 
being described, record other.
If the media type or types applicable to the resource being described cannot be 
readily ascertained, record unspecified.

3.3.1.3 RecordingCarrier Type:

If none of the terms listed above apply to the carrier or carriers of the 
resource being described, record other.
If the carrier type or types applicable to the resource being described cannot 
be readily ascertained, record unspecified.

6.9.1.3 RecordingContent Type

If none of the terms listed in table 6.1 apply to the content of the resource 
being described, record other.
If the content type applicable to the resource being described cannot be 
readily ascertained, record unspecified.

- Ian

Re: [RDA-L] eBooks & Playaways

[M. E.]

Ian Fairclough  wrote:

> Granted that a Playaway can be judged as unmediated.  But nevertheless,
> something that arose earlier in this discussion caught my attention: the
> suggested use of "other" with media type "audio."  Surely "other" is only
> established as controlled vocabulary for use when 338 = unmediated?  I do
> not see "other" listed under other media types, unless I missed something.
>

Look at the penultimate sentence under 3.2 (after the table).  And under
3.3 and 6.9, for that matter.

-- 
Mark K. Ehlert
Minitex

[RDA-L] eBooks & Playaways

[Ian Fairclough]

RDA-L readers:

Granted that a Playaway can be judged as unmediated.  But nevertheless, 
something that arose earlier in this discussion caught my attention: the 
suggested use of "other" with media type "audio."  Surely "other" is only 
established as controlled vocabulary for use when 338 = unmediated?  I do not 
see "other" listed under other media types, unless I missed something.  


I don't like that - but am I right, that's the way things are?  Sincerely - Ian

 
Ian Fairclough - George Mason University - ifairclough43...@yahoo.com

Re: [RDA-L] eBooks & Playaways

[M. E.]

Robert Maxwell  wrote:

>  In my opinion a Playaway is unmediated. You don’t need anything other
> than the object itself (and a source of electricity) to get the
> information, in contrast to, say, a CD, which you need to put in a machine
> in order to use.
>
>
>

Good point.  I had my media type flipped on its head--thinking of the audio
file in the Playaway rather than the Playaway itself.

--
Mark K. Ehlert
Minitex

Re: [RDA-L] eBooks & Playaways

[Pam Withrow]

Yes, "other" leaves a lot to the imagination!

--Pam

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 4:35 PM, J. McRee Elrod  wrote:

> Mark said:
>
> >In my opinion:
> >
> >336 -- spoken word
> >337 -- audio
> >338 -- other
> >A Playaway Audio doesn't quite fit under the definition of an audio
> >cartridge ("a cartridge containing audio tape").
>
> I agree with Mark, but did not comment on this originally because of
> the uselessness of "other".  The MRIs have "equipment" as a carrier,
> which would fit.
>
> There are ISBD Area 0 terms which are superior to RDA ones for content
> and media, but not for carrier.  There is an approved code for ISBD
> Area 0 terms, but not for MRI ones.  Perhaps "local" as used with
> other fields?
>
> I wonder how many of the creators of RDA are front line cataloguers as
> opposed to administrations a bit removed from the fray?  Situations
> with which we deal daily are not well addressed, including kits and
> equipment.
>
>
>__   __   J. McRee (Mac) Elrod (m...@slc.bc.ca)
>   {__  |   / Special Libraries Cataloguing   HTTP://www.slc.bc.ca/
>   ___} |__ \__
>



-- 
*Pamela Withrow, MLIS*
Cataloger
Perma-Bound
217-291-1144

Re: [RDA-L] eBooks & Playaways

[Pam Withrow]

Thank you, Bob.  That is an excellent point.  I never would have thought of
it that way.

--Pam

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 3:35 PM, Robert Maxwell wrote:

>  In my opinion a Playaway is unmediated. You don’t need anything other
> than the object itself (and a source of electricity) to get the
> information, in contrast to, say, a CD, which you need to put in a machine
> in order to use. Media type is “a categorization reflecting the general
> type of intermediation device required to view, play, run, etc., the
> content of a resource.” No intermediation device is needed to hear/play the
> content of a Playaway.
>
> ** **
>
> I find it analogous to a music box, which would also be unmediated.
>
> ** **
>
> There is not a good unmediated carrier type (yet) for a Playaway. But as
> noted below, there isn’t a good carrier type under the other categories
> either.
>
> ** **
>
> Bob
>
> ** **
>
> Robert L. Maxwell
> Head, Special Collections and Formats Catalog Dept.
> 6728 Harold B. Lee Library
> Brigham Young University
> Provo, UT 84602
> (801)422-5568
>
> "We should set an example for all the world, rather than confine ourselves
> to the course which has been heretofore pursued"--Eliza R. Snow, 1842.
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access
> [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] *On Behalf Of *M. E.
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 12, 2013 2:16 PM
> *To:* RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
> *Subject:* Re: [RDA-L] eBooks & Playaways
>
> ** **
>
> Pam Withrow  wrote:
>
> Playaway Audio
>
> 336 - spoken word
>
> 337 - audio
>
> 338 - audio cartridge
>
>  
>
> In my opinion:
>
>  
>
> 336 -- spoken word
>
> 337 -- audio
>
> 338 -- other
>
> A Playaway Audio doesn't quite fit under the definition of an audio
> cartridge ("a cartridge containing audio tape").
>
>
> --
> Mark K. Ehlert
>
> Minitex
>
> <http://www.minitex.umn.edu/>
>



-- 
*Pamela Withrow, MLIS*
Cataloger
Perma-Bound
217-291-1144

Re: [RDA-L] eBooks & Playaways

[J. McRee Elrod]

Mark said:

>In my opinion:
>
>336 -- spoken word
>337 -- audio
>338 -- other
>A Playaway Audio doesn't quite fit under the definition of an audio
>cartridge ("a cartridge containing audio tape").

I agree with Mark, but did not comment on this originally because of
the uselessness of "other".  The MRIs have "equipment" as a carrier,
which would fit.

There are ISBD Area 0 terms which are superior to RDA ones for content
and media, but not for carrier.  There is an approved code for ISBD
Area 0 terms, but not for MRI ones.  Perhaps "local" as used with
other fields?

I wonder how many of the creators of RDA are front line cataloguers as
opposed to administrations a bit removed from the fray?  Situations
with which we deal daily are not well addressed, including kits and
equipment.


   __   __   J. McRee (Mac) Elrod (m...@slc.bc.ca)
  {__  |   / Special Libraries Cataloguing   HTTP://www.slc.bc.ca/
  ___} |__ \__

Re: [RDA-L] eBooks & Playaways

[Robert Maxwell]

In my opinion a Playaway is unmediated. You don't need anything other than the 
object itself (and a source of electricity) to get the information, in contrast 
to, say, a CD, which you need to put in a machine in order to use. Media type 
is "a categorization reflecting the general type of intermediation device 
required to view, play, run, etc., the content of a resource." No 
intermediation device is needed to hear/play the content of a Playaway.

I find it analogous to a music box, which would also be unmediated.

There is not a good unmediated carrier type (yet) for a Playaway. But as noted 
below, there isn't a good carrier type under the other categories either.

Bob

Robert L. Maxwell
Head, Special Collections and Formats Catalog Dept.
6728 Harold B. Lee Library
Brigham Young University
Provo, UT 84602
(801)422-5568

"We should set an example for all the world, rather than confine ourselves to 
the course which has been heretofore pursued"--Eliza R. Snow, 1842.

From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access 
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of M. E.
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 2:16 PM
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] eBooks & Playaways

Pam Withrow mailto:withr...@perma-bound.com>> wrote:
Playaway Audio
336 - spoken word
337 - audio
338 - audio cartridge

In my opinion:

336 -- spoken word
337 -- audio
338 -- other
A Playaway Audio doesn't quite fit under the definition of an audio cartridge 
("a cartridge containing audio tape").

--
Mark K. Ehlert
Minitex
<http://www.minitex.umn.edu/>

Re: [RDA-L] eBooks & Playaways

[Pam Withrow]

Thank you for your opinion.  I agree that audio cartridge is not a good
fit.  It looks like we will continue to hash this one out.

--Pam

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 3:16 PM, M. E.  wrote:

> Pam Withrow  wrote:
>
>> Playaway Audio
>> 336 - spoken word
>> 337 - audio
>> 338 - audio cartridge
>>
>
> In my opinion:
>
> 336 -- spoken word
> 337 -- audio
> 338 -- other
> A Playaway Audio doesn't quite fit under the definition of an audio
> cartridge ("a cartridge containing audio tape").
>
> --
> Mark K. Ehlert
> Minitex
> 
>



-- 
*Pamela Withrow, MLIS*
Cataloger
Perma-Bound
217-291-1144

Re: [RDA-L] eBooks & Playaways

[M. E.]

Pam Withrow  wrote:

> Playaway Audio
> 336 - spoken word
> 337 - audio
> 338 - audio cartridge
>

In my opinion:

336 -- spoken word
337 -- audio
338 -- other
A Playaway Audio doesn't quite fit under the definition of an audio
cartridge ("a cartridge containing audio tape").

-- 
Mark K. Ehlert
Minitex

Re: [RDA-L] eBooks & Playaways

[J. McRee Elrod]

Pam posted:

>eBook
>336 - text
>337 - computer
>338 - online resource

Yes, except that we would use 337  $aelectronic$2isbdmedia.

Patrons don't think of their Kindles and Kobos as computers.

[RDA-L] eBooks & Playaways

[Pam Withrow]

Good morning,

May I please get some feedback on the following?  This is the way RDA reads
to me:

eBook
336 - text
337 - computer
338 - online resource

Playaway Audio
336 - spoken word
337 - audio
338 - audio cartridge

Thank you very much,
*Pamela Withrow, MLIS*
Cataloger
Perma-Bound
217-291-1144